I think that devaluing older characters like this will be more harmful for Mihoyo's business in the long run than making newer characters appear more valuable. At this pace the vast majority of characters they have released (and they have released A LOT of them already) will be utterly worthless because they will be unusable. Only the current shiny new characters will have any value at all, and these too will disappear into the abyss when the next patch cycle starts. This is a VERY bad business model that used to be reserved only for cheap scam gachas.
ahm actually is totally the opposed They gain more from let units rot. This main sound very stupid but is a grak for their business HI3rd was save (people play it more now compara with the past 2 years were it was neary dead compare with others games of its level even when the last half of Part 1 was the best write script even today) You know making new unit just being better than old units saves the problem to getting backlash from not fill expectations. The problem with people is that they belive that any unit can be fix and should be made relevant which...sadly is not true some units are just design to test gameplay to future units. Lets take Blade for example: Blade was design to be a DpS with a very good damage but a very low chance of growth. This is because is a HP scaling DPS and that is a very very problematic concept in RPGs. You see if the scaling is too good (low HP buff increase the damage very well) them you cant release units that buff HP like it is nothing. But is you make it in the other way (look at Blade) Them you have a unit that Reach its max potential too early and now he needs absurds amounts of HP to increase his damage to next levels. People belive that Blade can and should be fixed but dont understand that maybe his potential is locked by design because they dont want to dealt with making a old unit too good. Mihoyo understand gaming logic if you cant do (or you want do) what people want them...just dont do anything. You can design a better unit with a better damage seal later that appeals the same public as Blade. And for Blade fans? Eidolons improve his damage A LOT more than people belive.
@@KaiserTheDarkWolf See you WOULD have a good point if Aventurine didn't exist. Same for units like Robin. Supports and sustains just got really OP really fast and they can't do much to outdo them. Robin has full team advace, full team damage buff, full team crit buff. And Aventurine is Aventurine. Mihoyo clearly don't understand gaming logic because if they did they would've thought twice before making a unit as stupidly broken as Aventurine.
@@pally3370 Why? My question is not for you to answer is because i already now that you have other newer units and as intended they dealt more damage. Still he performs better than and you can clear content with him with no that much trouble probably, and if you have robin that really just make him tons better than people that plays anthing that is not Super Break, without robin. Is just not Firefly levels of power which is fine. So he already has a buff. His buff is called robin. The same buff that all old units that have access too. The way mihoyo buff old unit? Supports are great making old units good enough again. Not meta? Never, Himeko performance is just an "accident" called: We make firefly Fire, all the firefly content is Fire weakness and Super Break just happens to be good on AoE fire units.
If anything this tells people NOT to spend money. I spent $100s for lc, character and Eidolons(at least e2 cause that's the game changer usually) and this character got shut out a few patches later for new dps? I wouldn't want to put more money for that because it tells me the cycle will follow
looking at the first few units in the game, its pretty clear hoyo had a different design philosophy for kits compared to today. it would be really good to update those characters so they fit in with the modern cast better. ive reached the point where im going to stop trying to chase the meta because 3.x is going to have even more characters and i dont feel like pulling a bunch of remembrance units out of obligation. if my current units cant clear content anymore then so be it
@Lugitaro This is the way to do it ngl. Obviously if I end up liking a remembrance unit I'll get/use them but for now imo better to just use the ones you like
If there’s one thing Hoyo can do to solve this problem with enough feedback is to them make something what Dokkan is doing for a lot of years now and is EZA’s or SEZA’s making year 1 units for example meta in the current state of the game. (Of course they could fumble some kits upgrades but you get what i am going for) Let’s say…. Seele! Revamp her traces with better passives and higher atk multipliers and you would start to notice the difference much more and to finish things up the character can go to lvl 90. Fair game to compete against modern dps Buffing old characters as a concept in gacha’s exists! But is really up to Hoyo or the devs if they can listen to player feedback.
i liked that class buff idea, would actually bring so much more life to the community. id imagine a teaser for a 4 star destruction buff and then people would take either the hook or arlan side until the buff is revealed.. unfortunately will never happen. maybe in another timeline
Yea, i think buffing characters after doing a quest for them sounds really good, its like their character development in the story, you can also limit the quest so that you only get it at later playthrough, so a new player still feel the same experience without making the early contents to easy.
They sort of do that in fgo, usually you have to get a unit to a certain friendship/bond level before you get to do their story interludes - since HSR doesn't have that, they could do it after a certain amount of story progress.
Its still shocking to me they havent done this. There is no reason to not buff old charters, and there is so many ways of doing it too. Not only the ones you mention, but stuff like EZA's in dokkan or Zenkai's in legends. Though the ladder would probably be worse for this game since it requires you to get the unit multiple times. Just saying that they have so many ways of making money off of this, and they just dont want to
Oh shit I didn't see this comment before I posted mines exactly been my idea since I started this game ezas was really clutch if I missed or got unlucky in banners
@@FakeStuff5 facts man an eza style buff would be insane for example I think welt and himeko would become absolutely amazing with a buff or even reviving seele in the current meta especially with Sunday helping both hypercarry and summons
@@Pack52022 Precisely! Or Kafka, who is still the only enabler for DoT, but her kit has gotten so old compared to others that she cant keep up anymore. And not buffing her would feel like such a waist since she feels so relevant to the plot!
@@FakeStuff5 exactly and if anything they make more money from old units re runs if they gave that since people who are whales favorite characters got buffed they would want more eildions. All around a win in my book if they do it
Except they never change the one thing he needs: Lightning Lord needs to act IMMEDIATELY upon reaching 10 stacks. He needs to be able to overstack, with overstacks being retained after spending 10. (And it would be nice if LL used its follow-up at current-stack numbers with each of JY's basic and skill attacks (ultimates as well, if they want to make him as good as he could be).) EDIT: And Sunday doesn't fix this either... Action Advancing the LL, before he hits 10 stacks, will be a pain to navigate around, when it would otherwise be a good idea to push JY forward to build stacks faster... a bit counterproductive, in this case, despite all the hype people are giving to the JY/Sunday pairing.
@@NameNotAChannel "And Sunday doesn't fix this either... Action Advancing the LL, before he hits 10 stacks" 10 stacks is no longer a requirement because LL can act up to 3 times in a single cycle (with Robin). At -1 SPD build, he at least releases 7 stack LL. LL multipliers scale linearly beyond 6 stack. We've seen private server footage that shows that his LL rotation is 10 > 7 > 10 (and repeat). That's a LOT better than only getting 10 stack in a single cycle.
I think you got some great ideas and I agree that we could really use a buff system in recent mihoyo games, but I don't think we'll be seeing something like this for another year or 2. Thankfully though I think HSR has a good chance of introducing this system some time in the futuire, just not for a while.
@omegakrome3931 Hopefully at some point they add it! Like I said at the beginning, it was more of a thought experiment as to how they could do it more than a "We need this right now immediately"(though it would be nice)
Apparently theres a new harmony comin in 3.1 thats an HP mechanic buffer. If so Blade could see some resurgence but since Mydei is also rumored to be literally just a Blade powercreep (He's imaginary Destruction with HP mechanics) then Blade is once again just gonna be usable and clearly outpaced by the new stuff.
Seems to be HP-related only, mainly with Summoners. So, who knows. Even then, I doubt they'd have the necessary foresight to _not_ make Blade/Jingliu feel like shit.
@@NothingMeansNothingButNothing But he doesn't *SCALE* with HP. If Tribbie (that's the Harmony from 3.1) really buffs HP, it won't change anything for Arlan, because all his kit scales with ATK. And even if she buffs HP drain, Arlan will still be terrible with her. As soon as he reduces his own HP to 1, the game no longer counts it as HP consumption, since there's no change in the amount, and his self-healing Trace is horrendous. Arlan wants to keep his own HP low, he doesn't REALLY want to “lose” HP and he definitely doesn't want to be healed. Unlike Blade and probably Mydeimos, who want to lose HP for a specific purpose, but don't need to keep their HP very low, have reliable self-healing methods and, unlike Arlan, can and prefer to be healed.
mhy has had a record of buffing characters in HI3rd, either with direct stat buffs or with "kit upgrades" where you can farm up some resource to transform older Valkyries into newer character versions (on mostly F2P). They just have chosen not to do that with Genshin historically, and even in HI3rd, they were really slow about it.
I'm not too knowledgeable on hi3 but isn't hsr meta more similar to hi3 than genshin? It's certainly faster and more demanding. Hopefully they will implement similar buffs in hsr too
As a FGO player yeah this quite baffles me how such a high product value game like Star Rail just don't do this. Though my speculation is that they're either inexperienced with balancing or just our right don't care. They'll just probably think balancing a character right before their release is enough until another Neuvillette comes out, then start panicking, then another damage control and then future units just gonna be balanced around him all over again. Then there's the community that just defend them no matter what the issues which probably doesn't help Still it's quite frustrating since I like Seele and her design but reluctant to pull for her simple her combat value isn't there and that just sucks
@sugar-lx1jz Agree with all of this tbh. It really does feel like they don't care too much about how characters feel long term, they just release it and are like "good enough"
Good to hear that you're not forgetting a major factor - Gacha player (and to some extend players as a whole at this point) have been trained over the past decade or so to be professional shit-eaters. They will argue in defense of the toxic and flat out predatory behavior of HoYo and other companies instead of calling them out on their bullshit. They will continue to give these companies money, regardless of whether or not the companies trait them right. It's no longer "the customer is always right", but "the customer will eat the served meal and enjoy it, regardless of whether or not it's good".
To be fair, "The customer is always right" is hardly ever "Right" to begin with, and a line has to be drawn somewhere. That line is usually thrown around by people trying to abuse it, and not actually help anything. Also, saying players have gotten use to toxicity is pushing it. MHY is damn near to blame for other games at the bare minimum having some type of pity in them because they're the standard ATM.
That’s demonstrably true just by looking at the amount of people defending that powercreep! I just mentioned once in a comment section that it was disheartening that almost every cn MoC12 clears was either superbreak or fua and that the powercreep was killing variety in the game, and I was told that my concern was not an issue and that powercreep is necessary for the game to not be stale… I’m actually fine with the 2 year powercreep cycle of genshin, but 6 months in hsr is way too fast like units are almost entirely irrelevant right after their first rerun that’s not ok
I actually roll almost exclusively for gameplay, so I'm the weird one but in the same breath, I absolutely hate the idea of pulling an OP character and avoid it if at all possible it's mostly because mihoyo really can't contain themselves on power creeping and frankly goes overboard with with massive HP and scaling jumps each patch as for your idea for buffing old character, we have the simulated universe, and Herta could use that to make events that create a sorta power up Curio exclusive to units they want to buff. they could start with the older 1.0 characters (not just the 5 stars but the 4 stars as well) and they could release those curios/events over time to bring up underused units
I like the event idea, and the new traces idea. As nice as it'd be to just buff their multipliers, I think giving Seele a trace that has her resurgence activate within a certain damage condition instead of defeating an enemy outright would do WONDERS for her, without overshadowing her eidolons. Or giving Jingliu a new major trace that gives her a damage boost based on how many syzygy stacks she has; 50% dmg boost for 3, 35% for 2, 25% for 1, etc. HSR really suffers from "shiny new toy" syndrome much more than other gachas, you straight up *can't* use older units in endgame anymore, and there's not a lot of places to use them besides cheesing in SU or DU. Giving them a little boost alongside rerun banners would be awesome. I wanna use my JL again, man.
I think a dedicated light cone, that can only used by the assigned character, with buffed main and substates, in order to match current difficult. In this hoyo can still earn, While older players still able to enjoy their favourite character for long periods.
the reason they cant buff chars multipliers directly is cuz it is not legal in chinese law i think unless they had stated it beforehand that chars could be buff. the reason supports dont buff a certain char is cuz it s just not profitable to make a new char tied to an old one
My personal take on the balance issue is I dont mind characters being objectively weaker, even limited 5 stars, so long as they can clear end game content However yes, i definitely agree characters like blade could use buffs rather then just supports, though as i said as long as blade can clear mocs with that new hp support i wouldn't mind it as an outcome even if he gets overshadowed again, so long as he can clear it I think for blade probably the best way they could buff him besides his multiplier is just, giving his enhanced main attack and fua more hits, like what if his main attack had 4 hits instead of 2 Ive never been a fan of the claim that just because the game is a gacha it shouldn't get buffs, i can absolutely agree that nerfs would be stupid but just buffs wouldn't be that big an issue My personal idea for a buff system would be like as you said in the video, special missions where at the end, the characters recieve a buff, and those buffs are tailored to the character, i already mentioned blade. For jingliu i could see it being similar where her enhanced skill has a new move at the start where she jabs her sword into the enemy and slices upwards to initiate the rest of the skill For dot perhaps kafka could have a buff where her skill advances enemies forward so their dot triggers more often. Gepard could grant a minor shield after using his skill, not as big as his ultimate or even aventurine's skill shield but enough to do some protecting
i actually heard something about hoyo potentially giving the existing characters new paths to switch between like Trailblazer does. example: Giving Kafka a destruction kit that she can switch to in order to make her a bit more interesting and viable.
I like getting shiny new characters but I also like some old favorites. I get that there is usually a flavor of the moment but making it so older characters still have relevance would only mean that I would be more likely to get eidolons.
Some older characters have fallen off so insanely that only a direct buff can salvage their kit now, like why would ANYONE pick Luocha over aventurine now (unless you like him more)? Why would anyone pick Jing Yuan over acheron (pre sunday at least)? Why would anyone pick blade in general? Honestly I hope they do direct buffs, like some older characters just have ass kits compared to today and just suffer from being too simple. I know its cope, but man some units will unironically never see the light of day at this rate, only JY was able to receive such a humungous buff because LL was slow as shit and needed only to be advanced, other characters have more complex problems than this so wont as easily see their damage doubled or tripled.
I actually think hoyo NEEDS to see this. The ideas are perfect. Since bronya is bout to be powercrept by sunday itd be amazing if they added like a major trace to bronya thatd increase follow up attack damage or crit damage or sum. Just to differenciate her from sunday and keep her relevant. This way she she'd be an alternative to another style instead of just powercrept.
Your right the powercreep in hsr has gotten way out of hand. It is so bad im thinking about quitting cause what is the point of me investing in a new char when the dont last more then 3 months
Hi3 just kinda buffed an old unit for the first time. They released a new weapon for HoFi Kiana which gives her access to the part 2 system that basically dictates the meta. Now she's meta again.
Because those who received new stuffs still relevant to story. Like Kiana and Yatta. While some like big Bronya fell off cuz she has no screen time in story (by that I mean fight). Hope she get new set along with big Mei when they're back in fight
Limbus Company has mostly resolved the issue of underpowered units and powercreep as a whole. A big part of it is because the game wants you to play like 5 teams at a bare minimum, every new unit fits into an established achetype and team type (Bleed, Sinking, Poise, Burn, Tremor, Rapture, etc) so when a new unit comes out it's not like "Oh no I guess Y unit is useless now because this one is better" because they both fit into entirely different teams. There are a few team-agnostic units, units that just do a ton or damage and don't really have synergy with no one else outside of themselves, a few of them were from Launch and are STILL considered to be top 10 (Rabbit Heathcliff, for example) The units that WERE falling behind stopped lagging behind when the game released Uptie 4. Uptying is a form of "l'eveling up" which is separate from a units level, and the game originally launched with 3 uptie tiers. When they released uptie 4 they made sure the units that were having some trouble or falling behind benefitting from uptie 4 a LOT more than others, to the point where uptie 4 even had it's own tierlist of WHO benefits the most from it so players had a general idea of who benefits the most at a glance. There's so many ways HSR could fix the powercreep, so many ways they could lift up older units, or even units that just don't... function in the game as a whole (Yanqing) but they don't. Because Hoyo seems convinced it's either not worth it or will harm their bottom line even though it won't. Like if they rerun Blade and he gets buffed onm that rerun people will roll for him more than if he was just rerun with 0 changes. I feel directly buffing older units to help them keep up also just... gives players more options? The game WANTS to be a teambuilder but it continually puts centerpiece units for teams that make the entire team function as a whole on the backburner or just don't bother rerunning them for whatever reason. If Hoyo wanted more money they would buff team achetypes that are faltering or failing to keep up (DOT, Hypercarry) and add more endgame content that benefits them more or they would add a new endgame mode that asked players to have more than 2 teams of decent characters. Right now 2 meta teams carry you through both endgame modes with no issues and that just feels wrong to me esp when I think that in a year from now, my Feixiao might not even matter in terms of meta because FUA might not even matter or function in endgame anymore. It does nothing but instill a feeling of uneasiness that makes me NOT want to spend money on the game to try and keep up because I understand that trying to do so will not work.
Never played Limbus, but this Uptie 4 system sounds very familiar with Battle Cats True Form system. You spend a certain amount of materials to upgrade units into their true forms to make them stronger, this made some old mediocre units become very useful including some old collab units becoming relevant again during a rerun years later. I feel like this can be implemented into HSR, we already have the ability to change units path so why not change the units into a more powerful new form to make them relevant (and profitable) again.
One easy way to buff units is to add a raid, similarly to how Nikke does it. Not only does it make nearly every single character relevant in your account, but it also gives an incentive to pull for Abundance/Preservation units, and an excuse to use old but favorite characters like Pitch Dark Hook the Great. For those that don't know, a raid is a megaboss that takes multiple teams to beat. Imagine that instead of two teams defeating two different bosses, it's four teams trying to defeat a single boss. AoE and Blast type abilities would get a separate multiplier so that they can compete with single target.
I talked about this in my last video actually - I gave different ideas for new end game that doesn't rely on cycles/time limits, and raids are one option for that.
@@fl2ur Oh shit, I watched that video too, that's where I got the idea from, you're the same guy! Well, I guess I ought to subscribe to avoid that mixup xD, cheers!
Exactly, I'd be so hyped for a certain character getting released but then I remember oh... they'll be powercrept in the next 2 patches or so, so the hype dies, and pulling characters this way kinda just feels obligatory rather than enjoyable... I understand you gacha games need to make money and stuff BUT LET OLDER CHARACTERS STILL HAVE THE TIME OF DAY. Powercreeping every character consistently won't make me suddenly interested in spending money. Because what's the point in getting a character and spending money on it but the next thing you know, boom! Unusable. Get the new flashy character or cry. I'd gladly spend money but in the same time I want to get my money's worth. And that's what I suggested in the survey. Probably will go unread but idc anymore atp
i really fail to see why they don't do this, its just a super easy way to make money and make people happy, I would honestly pull for characters i didnt before if they started buffing/adding to there kits and honestly i also make me feel more motivated to pull for new characters, because as of right now sometimes if you don't get the new character, there's a good chance there be powercrept already by the time the next dps/support comes out, and unless there overturned as shit like Robin or Aventurine there's a good chance people just might not bother trying, making a rerun feel kinda pointless
About the unique item thing, Good news. I heard somebody saying they're doing that, you will get another slot in your gear and that thing supposedly their chance to buff the outdated units. Or they can do some lame shit like straight up just increase their stat or some fucking shit.
There's also LV 90 character skills already coded into the game, which means there's a new ascension level coming which would give them opportunities to release a new major trace for every single character.
Honkai Impact 3rd had some cool ideas that sadly didn't appeared in their other games. You could upgrade each character to SSS rank by using character fragments - If you could farm mats for eidolons or had some other additional progression that can increase base stat of characters in addition to that (Even to a point where you could bring their star rating up), it would probably make some of 4* way more interesting. Besides that some of older characters had Augment Cores - It was material that you farmed to upgrade characters that gave them toggable alternative set of abilities and move set. It was fun since devs could pretty much made a new characters out of old outdated ones - Kinda like what we've got with March but still the same element and path. Like imsgine toggle that makes Arlan actually useful, while still leaving masochists option to play as the old one.
@GolgothianSylex Nobody saying that they should stop what they doing and exclusively do augment cores for few months, it just something that they could easily do in addition to current patches to make 4* in them more valuable.
I really want Hoyo to do at the very least have tiny balance patches that change certain characters (such as changing the formula for Super break), that way, the METS doesn't become very stale and revolve around 2 - 3 team archtypes
the comparison to fgo is somewhat true , yet also somewhat flaw . Look at 4* Archer Emiya probably one of the most buffed character within the game or Cu Lancer which is actually a really strong 3* character . They're both very much viable , usable , but still far out match by someone like Koyanskaya of the Light ( assassin ) / Dark ( foreigner ) . A more direct comparison would be an early support character like Tamamo / Waver to Merlin , then Scathach Skadi , then Castor Artoria , and now Oberon and Lady Avalon . They still somewhat have their use , but the chance are few and far in between when compare to Castoria . ( though we also have plenty of good 3* support characters like Hans and Chen Gong that's viable , but require combo character to play with ) Even Berserker character like Raikou which was stable for fast NP clear before Lost Belt is now being replaced by Morgan Le Faye , or non-berserker class that can do the same or more amount of damage and can generate faster NP . Plenty of good free 4* character handout from event Sakamoto Ryoma or Assassin Okita that are still good to this day , but the amount of investment require on them are far out weight to that of 5* ones . Old 5* characters that I think still pretty good to this day that I can think of are Saber Artoria/Arthur , Gilgamesh and Scathach . To HSR Arlan the arguably worst character in HSR can even do 0 cycle in MoC , but the investment and condition require to do that is so much more .
The thing with supports is that pretty much all of them are still usable. Tamano is still good for cqs. Merlin just got a buff recently making him viable again. Skadi got a resurgence with triple skadi comps. Yes, castoria is broken but running a double castoria comp everywhere isn't even viable either because of 90+/90++ stages. For dps, they've usually been getting buffed with charge so they work in different looping comps, or damage bonuses so they have a specific niche. Yea, characters get sort of outscaled, but they'll always have a place to be used, especially when they get a buff. Not to mention, enemies in fgo haven't scaled up to stupid hp amounts outside of the super recollection quests, but those are completely optional, so I really wouldn't even count them.
My personal take which is a bit controversial and this is coming from someone who mainly plays FGO, is that its inherently hard to balance out a game where a good majority of their damage is determined by their relics which is why most "buffs" HSR has gotten has more indirect buffs like the case of our General who has gotten buffed multiple times with Relics increasing Follow up damage and recently a Planar set that buffs summons.This also applies a bit to Blade since I saw people commenting about how the LC from the Rappa music event is a buff to blade. Whether it was a joke or not, its undeniable that characters are buffed indirectly with the introduction of more LC and Relics and in some cases with supports. This is also disregarding how broken certain Eidolons are for a lot of characters that certain characters feels extremely different at E6 than in E0. I agree on going the FGO route of buffs tied to adding more effects to certain traces or even certain skills. The scaling issue is a different matter that can be done but in my opinion will be a weird balancing act with either going too high or not enough without taking into account the increase Talent level at E3 and E5. Though with how much Hoyo likes to make enemies be as tanky as possible I don't think it'll be that big of a deal
@yoryuuotonashi Personally I feel like relics fall into the same category as a support does - they help a character but if there's someone else that makes better use of it then it doesn't *really* help them. Like the DPS set that's with the Sunday relic set that released this patch - i really doubt that was meant for argenti/jingliu/etc, they just benefit from it. It'll really be meant for herta when she releases in 3.0
I actually love the idea of hsr implementing fgo's system of buffing units, it would bring back so much more life to the meta and the game overall. Especially limited unit really deserve to be buffed, I can understand not buffing free/standart units because it could hurt sales, but buffing seele, jy, loucha, sw, blade, jingliu etc benefits them too. More people would go after lightcones and eidolons of older characters, heck they could even buff bad eidolons along side their base kits.
Its not Hoyo, its HSR team itself who cooked so hard when making new character The trend of 2 new 5 stars every patch is overwhelming and thats why the powercreep trend is so much compared to Genshin For example in early DPS, C6 Xiao and C6 Hu Tao is still usable to clear endgame fast in +3 years and they can do solo run too meanwhile C6 Seele and C6 Jingyuan is already struggle with proper team in -2years My Raiden C3R1 is still clapping the abyss but i don't know about my Acheron E2S1 Acheron in 1 years in the future 😂
I once imagined a way to buff characters. It would be in the form of an endgame mode where each challenge would be customized for each team and character archetype. And as a reward in addition to the usual ones, you would unlock a new skill. They can update this endgame mode every 3.x 4.x etc.
I think buffing older characters to be great again, but maybe not on par with new characters. What I mean is a system similar to Dokkan Battle's EZA: old units get an awakening that changes their passives (multipliers and overall abilities) completely, making them units on par with the new ones, though new ones still have that bit more to make them appealing and pull-worthy. This could be done in many ways, as you said. Another idea could be implementing a special relic item unique to that character. Or maybe a relic set. Or maybe a light cone onlye they can use. Also I think they have not done this yet is still because of money: while yes, people could pull on re-run banners etc. Whales still probably account for a LOT of the money they get, at least 50% but could easily be 80%. Those people would not pull on re-runs, since they would already have E6S5 units. Another thing they could do to make old characters usable again would be unit-limited stages, where you can only use specific units or just 1 unit.
Ive commented before about this but. Epic7 has a pretty good system for upgrading their characters. It gives them new skills and abilities and stats. It works similar to what you described with story quests and combat challenges. Complete them the character gets reformed. What you described would be way less intensive with just new traces or star boosts or a new line of text. It just doesn’t make sense to not buff these characters when it’s so much easy than crafting a whole new character. Which would take away from plot production in favor of just selling characters. Gachas are and should more than just character collectors they’re story based games and people have already been frustrated with some story beats or events that don’t really matter. The community has favorite events that still haven’t made a comeback like the pokemon event.
i think the best excuse for a buffing system would be through equilibrium misions. As for how to buff them, i believe a system similar to eidolon could be useful, but instead of needing copies, you would use equilibrium points to unlock them. You would unlock equilibrium points with said equilibrium misions, or maybe in endgame modes, such as moc or differentiated universe. I believe the latter would be better, as you can ration it through patches for f2p, allowing them to choose where to spend them, and letting players buy more for those that want it. Another option would be to just use equilibrium points to unlock old character eidolons. The older the character is, the less points needed to buy their eidolons (except for counted exceptions, like Ruan mei, who would be a fixed number of points until it is not meta anymore), and new character with less than 1 or 2 years wouldn´t be able to unlock it through equilibrium points. this sistem allows f2p players to invest in characters they like, and incentivizing upgrading old characters while also allowing to save for new units. you just need 1 copy of the character, and if you choose to try a old one, you´ll have an easier time building him, cause you can buy all the eidolons. if you have all the reruns, you can focus on the new one, or try to get their eidolons faster with the banners, if each eidolon is still to expensive. either way, it allows players to focus on obtaining new characters, while allowing players to buy one copy of the old ones they like, and then building them to full potential. I just think it is a good idea that would take minimal effort to implement (specially short term), where you allow bad character to be unlocked at half price, and good ones taking months or years to build, incentivicing pulling for good reruns of good characters, but because bad characters can get an easy E6, they´ll sometimes be as good as an E1 or E0 meta character.
iirc in some interview devs said that they are going to make new paths for old characters in the future (like with march 7 and MC), but i don't remember where)
I definitely think at some point you need to buff there numbers. I think older units are really feeling it and I’d like to see my jing yuan, blade, and jinglui who I love and want to play be more generically viable. Like in genshin older units usually arnt as good but at least they’re still playable and can beat all the end game content it’s very hard these days to use seele, jjnglui, etc.
The devs might have overcooked when designing the big three (Acheron Feixiao FF) who can bypass any weakness super easily, I don’t even remember when was the last time I had the need to use my DHIL or Jingyuan if the content isn’t imaginary-lightning (and even then I’ll use other teams)
Me and my friend group were talking abt this hsr needs this very badly compqred to other hoyo games where player skill can mostly brute force even the hardest power creep it is a turn based game based on random substat roles and every fight is a number check if the fights get so hard or the enemies reach hp where they are unable to even get close to defeating them you really feel at a loss only the new shiny dps (whitch they most likely catered the mode to anyway) can usually clear it with ease making people fustrated and just roll them for a easy way out i really hope they do a older unit buff system soon :>
I'm a new player that started this summer (just after Firefly's banner, huge bummer) and it sucks seeing cuaracters Im interested in like Blade and Jing Yuan just not being good enough for the investment. They are so subpar that I'd rather spend the TB power just farming relics, despite really liking those characters! I would totally pull for them if Hoyo actually buffed them directly instead of leaving them by the wayside.
I think the only way I could see them buffing characters is by basically giving them an option to have a second light cone and a extra trace, level 90 but I dont see them buffing characters directly with direct multiplier change, its unlike mihoyo sadly. Depends on how good that extra trace would be, maybe they'll do some skin that buff your stat while there at it at this point
one of the other games i play: granblue fantasy also does rebalance patches for older characters pretty regularly to make them usable or on par with newer units and its very nice to see your old fave benefit from this. i really do hope hoyo reconsiders and starts doing this for hsr bc otherwise what would be the point of reruns for old characters or rolling for them if they're significantly weaker and have a harder time clearing content than the newer shinier ones? why would anyone want blade or seele when that new guy does everything they do and more? like sure new supports can only do so much. i wonder if more of us start speaking about this in feedback surveys maybe they''ll listen and consider it.
Take Breakcheron as an example of a weird comp that works well in the endgame content.If you literally swap out Firefly for Acheron, you can clear the current MoC 12 in 2 cycles. It's weird how there are no Nihility characters with her. For the extra damage, you can try solo sustain Welt in place of Gallagher.
Acheron is still fine herself since they gave her the most dedicated support in history and he has been keeping her afloat. Asking for ANOTHER dedicated acheron debuffer could be cope, since even DoT hasn’t seen an upgrade since 2.0 and thats a major archetype too, while she is a singular unit.
Like im pretty sure every other gacha on the market does character buffs. Granblue has 5* uncaps, arknights has modules, blue archive has bond equipment, fgo has rank ups. And then you play a hoyo game and see characters and entire teams be completely unuseable in less then a year. Hsr has worse powercreep then all these games combined and still does not buff.
I think a good idea to be able to buff characters would be to rework them but essentially keeping them the same for those who enjoy them for example making Seele simply have her talent proc whenever she does a certian percentage of health to a enemy simialir to herta
I'm glad that stelle has the same voice actor as morgan from fgo which is the one and only wife I need. Now I can imagine her as another funny persona from another game. That is the reason I can't stop playing FGO JP cuz dev team are really considerate for all those money spent by their playerbase for their old favorite characters. Sadly I don't have gilgamesh yet but I'm still pulling for him cuz he is cracked since launch even to this day. It is so sad to see when your favorite character are getting less effective for endgame content that always catching up with new meta characters. If this trend keep going on with hoyoverse game, playerbase will consider spending money cuz they know that one day that character will get powercrept anyway.
I know characters like aventurine is good and seems to last quite long as a good tanker in most team. But wait until Hoyoverse release new enemy that can pierce shield. Aventurine is absolutely cooked after that on top of hoyoverse release new sustain that can mitigate penetrations
If anyone played dokkan battle dragon balls mobile game before dragon ball legends they buffed really old units with ezas giving them a variety of uses. How you get them? Clear a specific event where you use your team and beat it until the final stage 30 to get all the medals or in star rails case could just be hunt or whatever class materials to lets say you get 40 then you can buff all the units capabilities, stats and even fix some flaws the unit has or buff what they good at. Dokkan battle is a turn based gacha game like this too by the way. Sure some cases the old units compare to the new ones or even is better with the z awakening but it really helps quality of life and have a variety of versatile choices even if the old buffed unit isnt as good as the new things
I will translate here what Honkai's way of buffing old characters in HSR terms: 1. Seele: Let's say next patch Seele gets a new light cone that we can gacha for. The hunt lightcone will have some normal stats like a bit of crit rate and attack, followed by "Seele equip bonus:" followed by a long text saying how her skill will be replaced by an execute against mobs, she's permanently in her enhanced state, and her ulty ignores deff entirely, kills mobs regardless of their HP and executes elites and bosses. (Execute (instakill if they drop below X% max HP) Also, she gets stacks from executing stuff with her skill, that are consumed when ulting to deal additional damage. Now we only need to pair her with Sunday, Sparkle, and a maybe Fu Xuan, give her another set because she now ignores deff already. Maybe that new sett from 2.6. And she's a hypercarry that can compete. 2. Silver Wolf: For her lightcone, some effect hit rate and the wielder's skill no longer costs skill points. Silver Wolf equi bonus: After Silver Wolf inflicts all 3 bugs from her talent on an enemy, he is debuffed with "Hacked" for 3 turns, boosting the effect of the bugs by X ammount. When they act, they spread the debuff to a random enemy. Silver Wolf's ultimate resets the duration of the debuffs and hits every "Hacked" enemy. 3. Luocha: For the equip bonus: During his abyss flower field, Luocha gains enhanced basic attacks with guaranteed crit rate that restore 2 SP and heal the whole team. Also, the whole team has massive crit damage boost during abyss flower field. This way he will contribute with as much damage as Aventurine and Lingsha, but for hypercarry teams. 4. Jing Yuan: Aglaea will be the better summon lightning dps, but as an erudition we can make Jing Yuan good again in Pure Fiction. Summon damage increased, Jing Yuan equip bonus, make him remembrance character and gives him a second lightning lord. Jing Yuan gains new skill that action advances one lightning lord by 50% and increases it's damage, new ult that counts as lightning lord damage, it's animation will be Jing Yuan coordonating both lightning lords for a combined attack. This was 1.0-1.1, ask for 1.2-1.5 if you want moar. And yeah, you'll have to gacha for a new lightcone, but at least your fav character has better gameplay and is usable.
@bribriibribrii Then you've paid those stellar jades to enjoy the Seele at that time. If you like Seele more than the current meta damage dealers, you have to pay again to upgrade your Seele over unlocking other damage dealers. This is how it works. Either get new characters, either you vertically invest into old ones so they can keep up with the new ones.
From what I’ve heard the reason why old characters will never get updated(in any of the games) has to do with some type of Chinese law towards gatcha games that the characters in the game can never be changed because when you actually obtain the character, you kind technically own that character version so if hoyo makes a change They are altering property and that becomes grounds for a lawsuit hoyo has legitimately been sued over fixing the spin bug for Neuvillette so they legitimately can’t or it would actually damage the game, and also hoyo is incredibly cautious when actually implementing characters or making changes because they have been sued multiple times in the past over their characters and at one point in time almost got the company shut down over a singular impact3rd skin, China is a communist country This type of stuff is very common.
Hoyo is even tamer in this regard than other companies. At least the powercreep doesn't mean old units cannot give you the max rewards, they can still. I've known a few games where they just made new content unclearable with old characters. Worst are the games with PvP.
I don’t think it’s exactly impossible to make a support that would make blade stronger without the next go scaler being broken. You could possibly make it so that they character could be an abundance with a DOT they apply on their team. (Make it so it would leave the character at 1 hp instead of killing if they are too low.) blade has ways to increase dps without outright buffing dmg unconditionally. You could also have a character that gives a buff to others based off of how much their hp has fluctuated
same like it's been 2 years? since hsr came out (correct me cuz i just started on firefly patch) just like u said i also came from other gcaha where they buff old characters even the standard characters(in fgo) to be relevant with current meta characters idk why hoyo just refuse to do so and just power creeping old characters like superbreak just introduced just few patches and summon meta is coming so what happens to older characters that aren't superbreak or summon like Clara seele etc even their genshin isn't that bad with powercreeping old characters like hutao yoimiya still can be compare to latest alc nuv but on weaker side in abyss but still compareable
Every turn based gacha in the market buffs characters. I think they should start working on something because there is absolutely 0 reason to play Natasha, for example. I sometimes still play underperforming characters like March (Preservation) because of her perma-freeze capability, which i find really fun. But for characters like Natasha, there is nothing going for her... she just... heals... that's it. That's a pity because i love Natasha as a character. Another thing that makes me sad is the fact that Fire and Phys MC will probably never be relevant again. Especially after Harmony and possibly Remembrance.
I think they wont buff units unless they can make money off it, so the closest thing I think they would do is maybe have a new light cone in the future be a better option than their signature. Otherwise only new better relics is the only option.
3:41 support improve their performance not their baseline multiplier thats literally why jingliu fell off within 2 patch after release cuz she self buff with too much stat while having 0 multiplier that her own self buff get diluted with other support
I've pitching the idea of buffing characters ever since 1.x and since Seele's fall off there is literally no reason not to do it because it could bring them revenue for old banners and reduce powercreep
I don't think it's about money, I think Hoyo created a monster with HSR's gacha and they cannot tame it. It pumps out too much stuff too fast, and even the devs cannot keep up. - 32 limited 5*s - 7 standard 5*s - 39 signature light cones Not to mention that there are technically 65 characters in the game as of the drip marketing/etc. for 3.0. There's too much going on and the game is not even 2 years old. I wish HSR would slow down on new characters and find ways to make the old ones better. They should take a page out of WuWa's book. WuWa does buff old units with new characters and weapons, but it's easier to do that with fewer but better characters. Shorekeeper is universally good for any team. Verina is universally good. Rover is really good and we all have him. We all can have Sanhua, etc. They really slow it down on the banners too, with 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 having two new limited 5*s each but the reruns began in 1.2 already with Jiyan, and 1.3 now will have Yinlin's rerun... you can catch up. You can get the signature weapons, etc. when there are only: - 8 limited 5*s - 5 standard 5*s - 13 5*s weapons The game is only 6 months old, and it's a lot easier to focus on making the characters you have better by pulling a new good support, or another sub-DPS that synergizes well.
You are comparing a 6 months old game to an almost 2 year old game..when hsr was 6 months old it was also releasing universally good characters, but the fact is that they cant do that forever. Just wait a year or two in wuwa and see how it becomes. Also, hsr gives even better free characters than wuwa. We have hmc who is literally meta defining, march7th hunt who is really good, also gallagher who is a top tier sustainer
@@zzzy1934 I'll take your word on how HSR was 1.3 years ago I wasn't there. Maybe the same fate will befall WuWa in time.... I hope not, but we shall see. I'd love to benefit from some of that generosity - I missed Gallagher and Dr. Ratio. I haven't got to the part where I unlock March 7 the Hunt either. Harmony Trail Blazer I agree is META defining, he never leaves my team, which is a super break team. So if March 7 is as impactful as you say, I'll look forward to unlocking her. :)
As a note upgrade systems for old units rarely stay to older characters. Dokkan added EZAs which at first made old units more relevant in modern content then more recent units until powerful new units started getting it. It made earlier content easier but they just upscaled the endgame to match. You could clear older things but newer content preferred newer characters.
Even if you upgrade Clara or Yanxin if Yunli and Jingliu also get buffed to then it just makes some modes easier. You might as well just base update the character to keep up with changing dps and survivability expectations
@keve5534 I'm not super familiar with dokkan, but I've heard they definitely helped older units at least. If end game gets scaled up, that's a whole other issue
Maybe I'm just coping but I'm still not convinced HSR is going to continue experiencing powercreep on the scale it had in the first year. I do still agree with buffing old characters and it sounds really exciting but I never had the same sense of dread at all. The only two gacha games I've played prior were Genshin and Fire Emblem Heroes which might be plaguing my perception a bit though. Genshin IMO has had the same average power level of characters since just before Sumeru with just a few overtuned characters slipping through whilst FEH on the other hand had very very blatant powercreep where stat totals increase and weapons would gain a whole extra line of text every year. When I think of powercreep, I think of how FEH just made it a part of the design but HSR more mirrors Genshin rn in my mind. Since Ruan Mei, Fu Xuan and Acheron I really don't feel like there's been anymore big jumps so it seems very feasible to me that Firefly, Jade, Robin, Aventurine, etc. will remain the upper level and won't be replaced by a new wave. Also in Genshin and HSR I'm yet to bench anyone past the first couple months (the only DPS I've ever benched were Diluc, QQ and 4* DH) but most people don't seem to have the same experience. It is a matter of prediction so I could 100% be wrong
Its so backwards how hoyo wants us to worship and idolize their characters (making most of them perfect, any flaws are to be cute or pity them, the whole “OMG I NEED THEM I NEED TO PROTECT THEM” cult they foster), BUT when it comes to making us want to use them or even pull them its crickets If new characters cant draw interest without being unequivocal powercreeps then make better characters its not hard (cough cough, rappa 🤢)
I wish there was I want to run mono quantum but why summon on silver wolf and seele I love there design now when I have the three meta teams and some of the 4 stars are cool but no point when my meta teams clear everything as much as I love new units the old deserve at least a second time in the spotlight
But hoyo shills will be like" but those other gacha already lose in term of revenue compared to hoyo games, so why shoul they buff older characters if new op characters will brings them more profits"
Yeah so the problem is there is a system built in the game for us to buff our older characters. Re-run banners and getting eidolons/Sigs. They wont be meta; they wont 0 cycle or 1 cycle. But they can get the job done if invested. Otherwise no, a year old Jinglu wont compete on similar levels than a fresh new Feixiao. DPS in particular have there time in the sun with little to no investment, then as the months pass, if people want to keep using old tools, ok. Then invest in them. I saw someone clear MOC 12 with Jinglu. No money spent. But, they invested in that Jinglu to keep her relevant. And sometimes that can be through supports as well. Speaking of, this of course changes when more supports get released. Jing Yuan for example is about to be fantastic thanks to sunday, DHIL has a comeback when Sparkle landed, Super break helped everyone but especially Himeko, etc. Idk, Im ok with this. End of the day, as long as it is possible to clear the content and get the rewards (hell I can with an E0 S0 Kafka and freaking Sampo) then its fine. If people want to 0 or 1 cycle and not think? Get the shiny new toy and click auto battle. If people want to use characters from a year ago basically? Ok, use that brain, invest, plan, etc and beat it in 3 or 4 or more cycles. Just my perspective
The problem with eidlonons is that its only available through getting the same unit multiple times, which cant be called a buff since only some people have access to it, and some of them are blatantly trash. The problem with investment that 1. It isnt guaranteed and stops you from investing in others, and 2. That isnt guaranteed. Both of these rely on luck, and doesnt change the problem that dwels in the character itself
While I know it's impossible I wish they would just nerf the new characters and go back to 1.X power level again, it's just so frustrating to see strategies that I liked using in the past becoming irrelevant after every update and being replaced with new, lamer versions of them. I remember the game being so more engaging when I was obligated to use shit sustains like Natasha and M7 and actually have to think on how to get out of a battle alive, doing silly stuff like combining Yanking and Welt to stunlock enemies, using Clara as a sub-dps and tank for Arlan main-dps and so much more stuff. You can still do these kind of things, but the DPS, Speed and Sustain requirement now is so high that you're basically obligated to follow the meta somewhat if you want to do any endgame, even if you want to do challenges like 4* clears you are glued to OP stuff like Gallagher and IMG Trailblazer and can't really steer away from it anymore. At this point I honestly feel like it's a matter of time until I just get done with it and uninstall the game forever, which is a shame since I really thought this game had potential to be great but it fell flat IMO, heck your videos are probably going to make me go back to FGO at this point after a year since I also quit that game as at least I know I can still do the silly stuff I loved doing in that game if I go back now.
@dumbitchstella Hey, fgo has its problems(gacha being the biggest part) but the gameplay and story are definitely fun still imo(LB7 soon too!). If you go back, give me your fc, would be happy to add you 😊 More video related, yeah. All the new mechanics and busted units being added feel like they continuously strip away more and more gameplay incentives you have to actually play with. Elements? Now there's implant and ignore. Break bars? Superbreak + exo toughness soon. Dots? Enemy speed makes them wear off. Action delays/freezes? Same deal. Combine all that with time limits and it feels like all that's left is story. Which is fine, that's by and large the reason I still play fgo for example. But, when the story is bananas and ninjas... uhh... yeah.
@@fl2ur You know the new units are bad (from a gameplay perspective) when my newest 5* DPS is Dr. Ratio, and I didn't even pull for him, mf just spawned in my mail. I have 150 pulls saved but there just isn't any incentive to pull for me, the new characters are so strong that would just make the game more boring, and if I wanted to pull an older character the amount of farming I would need to do just to make them viable is not worth it. So I'm kinda stuck with my current units and since the endgame is very repetitive I kinda already reached the peak of what I could do besides the story, which as you said is not that great. Btw my FGO code is 025,492,010, I still have the game installed just to keep my account safe. Got some silly stuff in the support too, buncha lv80 3*, lvl 116 Gogh and a lv 100 lancer Cú and Nemo.
@dumbitchstella That's fair, yeah, especially if you're looking for more unique units than broken dps 49 lmao. Sent you a request on fgo, your grails are based 🫡
Idk, arguments sound really weird. Yes, people who pull for looks will pull their favourite character no matter their power level. Yes, people who only pull for meta give Hoyo more money when they pull new OP character every 3-4 patches than when every character is more or less equal.
Blade rerun 3.0 please i have all the E6s1 characters I want besides Jingliu and Blade since I started playing .-. I NEED E6S5 BLADE THE DREAM MY FAVORITE CHARACTER
At the risk of getting downvoted, I just don't agree that units need to be buffed. I pulled for Seele day one and I have been able to reliably clear up to MoC 12 very consistently with her. Did I need to farm more to get her build up to par with what other characters can do? Sure. Was my Firefly out damaging my Seele with half the time farming? Yes. But has that stopped me from using exclusively Seele in all of the story based content and never having a problem? No. Hell there are people out there who use Arlan (Arguably the weakest character in the game) to clear MoC12. And if you want your character to be even stronger than what's necessary to clear MoC12, then what's even the point?
Yanqing, which is probably the worst damage character in everyone's opinion, can be buffed by allowing his passive to activate before he performs his skill, as well as higher chance of freeze. This way, Yanqing will be able to early freeze the boss and it can bring huge advantages. This is an opinion since crit team is maybe the weakest team comp.
i honestly want buff but i understand why they dont bring buff. Sinse HI3rd Mihoyo unit design was clear "we design units for a damage gap and them we improve over that with new units" They were a little too far the first 2 years of that game and the gap between year 1 units and year 2 units is crazy. Blade feel like a very comepent and very GOOD unit if you take any unit that was launch in HI3rd in a similar date when that game was launch and make a comparation of damage of both vs their direct powercreeps. Them with Genshin their learn that people backlash from failing buff or other flaws. Their conclusion is that Buffing units dont solve popularity problems unless you overdoit and them you end with units like Zhongli eclipsing other units on the same job forever. So their solution is simple: make units look great in their whole version and them make units that look better. This seems a very greedy approach but the balance in this game is far better than HI3rd even low damage units can dealt with new content (belive me, not in that game). Eidolons improve their damage a lot so fans can enjoy them even more. If their start buffing units a lot of problems and drama and refund will be ask. People is NOT happy when after their spend money on a NEW unit the OLD unit becomes the better option because a buff and replaces the NEW unit. People is surely sad when a NEW unit replaces an OLD unit but they dont mind it that much because "that is how gacha operates" (thats actully how any non-competitive game operates)
Just to clarify something. The reason they do not buff older characters by changing multipliers or adding a line of text like you said is that they can't I am pretty sure there is a rule or some legal reasons behind it, after the character is released. So they can buff older characters only with new supports at this point.
Excuse me, but where did you hear this? It doesnt break any contract, and if the buff is an unlock you cant even make the excuse that people did with Neuvilette in Genshin. Not to be rude, but this sounds like blatant misinformation
@@FakeStuff5 i'm pretty sure it's a chinese law that falls under false advertising or something? i don't know the specifics or if it's even true but i assume that's what they're talking about
@@FakeStuff5 you didn't notice the pattern of them indirectly buffing jing yuan? hoyo knows he's mid, but rather than doing like league of legends does and go "jing yuan's skill attack ratio is increased", they instead go for indirect buffs like the the new relic sets released just for him and other summons. they legally can't directly buff him
@@worrydodo We gotta remember that they did buff Zhong once before. I get why people would think that after the situation with Neuvilette, but im pretty sure they changed it because of the backlash from the Chinese community. Like changing the amount of spining he could do would'nt count as false advertisement
@@worrydodo not how false advertising works, it only means they can face legal issues if they NERF a character, because then you didnt get what you potentially paid for (there was this issue with Neuvilette in genshin because they fixed a bug), but buffing a character is fine
I think the argument I'm not seeing enough about is the conversation around Eidolons. If I'm Hoyo, why would I buff old units if I can bake buffs into Eidolons to encourage players to pull more to increase their power? Hell, some Eidolons give significant boosts or changes to the unit, making them more efficient at what they're already doing (though old units had some pretty awful Eidolons I'll admit). This is especially true in comparison to games like FGO and Dragalia which the former has damage buffs for copies while the latter had nothing for dupes. Dragalia has no reason to whale and to my knowledge FGO's pity isn't exactly friendly to those who really want to invest hard in a character. I don't think FGO got pity until a year or two ago anyway? Meanwhile, games like Hoyo games regularly encourage whaling because the strength or utility increase is significant even in the first or second copy of the character and the character is guaranteed after a certain number of pulls. So the question becomes this instead: "Does buffing old units interfere with encouraging players to vertically invest?" Let's start with the first one: new supports are vertical investment for old units. Sure I could buff the DPS's damage or utility or I could bake that damage / utility into a brand new unit. If players invest more with Eidolons and Signature LCs of that support, they can make their old DPS even stronger. This is even better if I run the old DPS with the new support, like running Sparkle with Jing Yuan (or Sunday with Jing Yuan, hello 2.7) because now they can whale for both. This not only helps old units keep up but gives them a shiny new support that will perfectly slot in with the brand new DPS that uses them even better. From there, they can have a choice of pulling the new, stronger unit or using their old one but either way, I, as Hoyo, make money. Sure this may upset fans of the old units but as long as the banners sell well it doesn't matter. Second, if I decide to buff an old unit, does that interfere with its existing Eidolons? Lets use your Seele buff for an example (which I know was just an example and not exactly indicative of what they'd do but I think it's a good example of what I'll get to). The buff of "triggering her talent if she kills an enemy" is, without a doubt, better than *any* of her current Eidolons. Her current ones are give an extra speed boost, energy, and some extra damage after ult but that's it. On the one hand, it's a great talent and I think any Seele player would appreciate it. But on the other hand, not only would I never pull for her Eidolons if I didn't have them after this buff but if I did have Eidolons for her I'd feel conflicted. Is it worth pulling for Eidolons on old units, especially if they're not very strong, if later buffs are significantly stronger? And is it worth pulling Eidolons at all if a buff may give them a significant upgrade that may even be better than an Eidolon? Of course, I could make this talent a little more balanced and more in line with some of her Eidolons but if the buff isn't significant enough to help the old unit keep up then it doesn't even feel worth it. So you end up with a challenge of making a buff that feels significant enough to be worth it for current / new users but not enough to overshadow Eidolons. Sure, that's doable, but is it worth it especially this early in the lifespan when they're still adding new archetypes / paths? I think but the basic idea I wanted to touch on is that I think Eidolons are a big factor into why we don't see characters buffed. Sure, old Eidolons pale in comparison to new ones, and they could even consider buffing Eidolons (which has its own host of problems), but I ultimately believe that's hard to get around. It'd be cool to have old units back in the spotlight and I'd love to see something like character quests come back (which have mysteriously disappeared since Black Swan's but I guess they're involved in events so that's fine) but I think that would need to be addressed first. Also wow sorry for typing so much. Did not expect to have this much to say! Thanks for reading if you got this far
@Afrohawk512 Read the whole thing, no worries about the long comment! Imo, if they were to implement buffs, I don't see a reason why they couldn't double dip. For example, Seele gets the hypothetical buff I threw out in the video, but then also gets a buff to her e1 or e2 where that resurgence triggers something new(like makes it aoe), or makes the resurgence proc considered a followup so it can get double buffed. They have options, it all just depends on how creative they get.
@@fl2ur Hey thanks for reading! I appreciate the conversation haha. I think buffing both the unit and their Eidolons would be a solid idea. It'd both reward whales / previous investors while encouraging others to invest in Eidolons in the future. The only caveat I see that could cause an issue there is the public opinion. Buffing Eidolons, even if they buff the base kit as well, still has a chance of being received negatively because players may feel they have to get Eidolons for a character to be good. This is also a scary precedent for future characters as a positive reception would encourage Hoyo to lock more abilities behind Eidolons (which they aren't strangers to but it's not something they need more encouragement for haha). It is possible they could create a both bolsters their base kit while buffing their Eidolons, it'd just be tough to balance and would need careful consideration. But yeah, I like the idea. I just think there's a lot to consider for how these buffs affect old and new units alike, especially if newish units start getting buffed as well.
Its a statbased, turnbased game with a lot of powercreep. Characters getting stronger, endgame getting harder with higher hp pools. That's how this game works, they are not gonna buff old characters. They are meant to be phased out
Nah, take cue from Genshin. When HSR hits 5.0, new characters then will hit 1 mil damage without even minmaxing and the old characters? They'll mostly just fade into nothingness save a few rare ones that might bounce back a little from new synergies with new teams. Data is telling Hoyo that it works and big money is still coming in and there's no stopping it. 2.6 has really very little contents and the Rappa experience for those on the fence only gets to experience the souped-up version in the trial run, her story doesn't give players much. Instead, they gave players a major event with her story tied in as a music game. Then the following minor events were nothing more than just goods exchange. It's to me the worst patch ever, since playing from 1.5. Still, I think this patch would instead, ballooned HSR's revenue mainly because there're Acheron and Aventurine. It's nothing personal. It's just business. As long as players continue to vote with their wallets, the strategy is safe and sound to continue. So my take on playing Gachas, don't spend. If things don't turn out right after a long time, just leave. Apart from time spent, nothing is lost.
Why is it always the Blade Mains? Hypercarries are bad for game design, so Hoyo decided to stop supporting them. It isn't that hard a concept. The existence of Hypercarries as a central part of the meta not only warps character design around needing more support options, but also enemy/encounter design.
Some of the early units really need buffs or a kit rework yanqing was my first ever 5 star dps and carried me to early and mid game but his kit is so cluncky with this random follow up and his numbers are not the best lets just say that 😅
![Lethal Company Music Video 🎵 "Follow The Orders" [VERSION A]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/QeooZB4Z7RA/mqdefault.jpg)
I think that devaluing older characters like this will be more harmful for Mihoyo's business in the long run than making newer characters appear more valuable. At this pace the vast majority of characters they have released (and they have released A LOT of them already) will be utterly worthless because they will be unusable. Only the current shiny new characters will have any value at all, and these too will disappear into the abyss when the next patch cycle starts. This is a VERY bad business model that used to be reserved only for cheap scam gachas.
The funny thing is , people want to spend on skins and on reruns but it just isn't worth it
ahm actually is totally the opposed They gain more from let units rot. This main sound very stupid but is a grak for their business HI3rd was save (people play it more now compara with the past 2 years were it was neary dead compare with others games of its level even when the last half of Part 1 was the best write script even today)
You know making new unit just being better than old units saves the problem to getting backlash from not fill expectations. The problem with people is that they belive that any unit can be fix and should be made relevant which...sadly is not true some units are just design to test gameplay to future units. Lets take Blade for example:
Blade was design to be a DpS with a very good damage but a very low chance of growth. This is because is a HP scaling DPS and that is a very very problematic concept in RPGs. You see if the scaling is too good (low HP buff increase the damage very well) them you cant release units that buff HP like it is nothing. But is you make it in the other way (look at Blade) Them you have a unit that Reach its max potential too early and now he needs absurds amounts of HP to increase his damage to next levels.
People belive that Blade can and should be fixed but dont understand that maybe his potential is locked by design because they dont want to dealt with making a old unit too good. Mihoyo understand gaming logic if you cant do (or you want do) what people want them...just dont do anything. You can design a better unit with a better damage seal later that appeals the same public as Blade. And for Blade fans? Eidolons improve his damage A LOT more than people belive.
@ dude. I have a top 2% e2s1 blade. He’s worse than people think
@@KaiserTheDarkWolf See you WOULD have a good point if Aventurine didn't exist.
Same for units like Robin.
Supports and sustains just got really OP really fast and they can't do much to outdo them. Robin has full team advace, full team damage buff, full team crit buff. And Aventurine is Aventurine. Mihoyo clearly don't understand gaming logic because if they did they would've thought twice before making a unit as stupidly broken as Aventurine.
@@pally3370 Why? My question is not for you to answer is because i already now that you have other newer units and as intended they dealt more damage.
Still he performs better than and you can clear content with him with no that much trouble probably, and if you have robin that really just make him tons better than people that plays anthing that is not Super Break, without robin. Is just not Firefly levels of power which is fine.
So he already has a buff. His buff is called robin. The same buff that all old units that have access too. The way mihoyo buff old unit? Supports are great making old units good enough again. Not meta? Never, Himeko performance is just an "accident" called: We make firefly Fire, all the firefly content is Fire weakness and Super Break just happens to be good on AoE fire units.
A+ rant
Sad to see $200's shelved and relegated to daily cleanup missions.
Argenti in a nutshell💀
@@Accountthatexists still useful at PF anyway lmao
If anything this tells people NOT to spend money. I spent $100s for lc, character and Eidolons(at least e2 cause that's the game changer usually) and this character got shut out a few patches later for new dps? I wouldn't want to put more money for that because it tells me the cycle will follow
looking at the first few units in the game, its pretty clear hoyo had a different design philosophy for kits compared to today. it would be really good to update those characters so they fit in with the modern cast better.
ive reached the point where im going to stop trying to chase the meta because 3.x is going to have even more characters and i dont feel like pulling a bunch of remembrance units out of obligation. if my current units cant clear content anymore then so be it
@Lugitaro This is the way to do it ngl. Obviously if I end up liking a remembrance unit I'll get/use them but for now imo better to just use the ones you like
If there’s one thing Hoyo can do to solve this problem with enough feedback is to them make something what Dokkan is doing for a lot of years now and is EZA’s or SEZA’s making year 1 units for example meta in the current state of the game. (Of course they could fumble some kits upgrades but you get what i am going for)
Let’s say…. Seele! Revamp her traces with better passives and higher atk multipliers and you would start to notice the difference much more and to finish things up the character can go to lvl 90. Fair game to compete against modern dps
Buffing old characters as a concept in gacha’s exists! But is really up to Hoyo or the devs if they can listen to player feedback.
i liked that class buff idea, would actually bring so much more life to the community. id imagine a teaser for a 4 star destruction buff and then people would take either the hook or arlan side until the buff is revealed.. unfortunately will never happen. maybe in another timeline
Yea, i think buffing characters after doing a quest for them sounds really good, its like their character development in the story, you can also limit the quest so that you only get it at later playthrough, so a new player still feel the same experience without making the early contents to easy.
They sort of do that in fgo, usually you have to get a unit to a certain friendship/bond level before you get to do their story interludes - since HSR doesn't have that, they could do it after a certain amount of story progress.
Its still shocking to me they havent done this. There is no reason to not buff old charters, and there is so many ways of doing it too. Not only the ones you mention, but stuff like EZA's in dokkan or Zenkai's in legends. Though the ladder would probably be worse for this game since it requires you to get the unit multiple times. Just saying that they have so many ways of making money off of this, and they just dont want to
Oh shit I didn't see this comment before I posted mines exactly been my idea since I started this game ezas was really clutch if I missed or got unlucky in banners
@@Pack52022 I saw it. Just glad more people had the same idea as me, and think that they should buff the older characters
@@FakeStuff5 facts man an eza style buff would be insane for example I think welt and himeko would become absolutely amazing with a buff or even reviving seele in the current meta especially with Sunday helping both hypercarry and summons
@@Pack52022 Precisely! Or Kafka, who is still the only enabler for DoT, but her kit has gotten so old compared to others that she cant keep up anymore. And not buffing her would feel like such a waist since she feels so relevant to the plot!
@@FakeStuff5 exactly and if anything they make more money from old units re runs if they gave that since people who are whales favorite characters got buffed they would want more eildions. All around a win in my book if they do it
How to be buffed in Hsr: Be Jing Yuan
Except they never change the one thing he needs: Lightning Lord needs to act IMMEDIATELY upon reaching 10 stacks.
He needs to be able to overstack, with overstacks being retained after spending 10.
(And it would be nice if LL used its follow-up at current-stack numbers with each of JY's basic and skill attacks (ultimates as well, if they want to make him as good as he could be).)
EDIT: And Sunday doesn't fix this either... Action Advancing the LL, before he hits 10 stacks, will be a pain to navigate around, when it would otherwise be a good idea to push JY forward to build stacks faster... a bit counterproductive, in this case, despite all the hype people are giving to the JY/Sunday pairing.
@@NameNotAChannel "And Sunday doesn't fix this either... Action Advancing the LL, before he hits 10 stacks"
10 stacks is no longer a requirement because LL can act up to 3 times in a single cycle (with Robin). At -1 SPD build, he at least releases 7 stack LL. LL multipliers scale linearly beyond 6 stack.
We've seen private server footage that shows that his LL rotation is 10 > 7 > 10 (and repeat). That's a LOT better than only getting 10 stack in a single cycle.
I think you got some great ideas and I agree that we could really use a buff system in recent mihoyo games, but I don't think we'll be seeing something like this for another year or 2. Thankfully though I think HSR has a good chance of introducing this system some time in the futuire, just not for a while.
@omegakrome3931 Hopefully at some point they add it! Like I said at the beginning, it was more of a thought experiment as to how they could do it more than a "We need this right now immediately"(though it would be nice)
@@omegakrome3931 We hope this is what happens
Apparently theres a new harmony comin in 3.1 thats an HP mechanic buffer. If so Blade could see some resurgence but since Mydei is also rumored to be literally just a Blade powercreep (He's imaginary Destruction with HP mechanics) then Blade is once again just gonna be usable and clearly outpaced by the new stuff.
Somehow Arlan will eat, right
Seems to be HP-related only, mainly with Summoners. So, who knows. Even then, I doubt they'd have the necessary foresight to _not_ make Blade/Jingliu feel like shit.
@@LeftyPencil Arlan does not scale with HP
@@vitorjjgameplays5786 he loses HP with skill though
@@NothingMeansNothingButNothing But he doesn't *SCALE* with HP.
If Tribbie (that's the Harmony from 3.1) really buffs HP, it won't change anything for Arlan, because all his kit scales with ATK.
And even if she buffs HP drain, Arlan will still be terrible with her. As soon as he reduces his own HP to 1, the game no longer counts it as HP consumption, since there's no change in the amount, and his self-healing Trace is horrendous.
Arlan wants to keep his own HP low, he doesn't REALLY want to “lose” HP and he definitely doesn't want to be healed. Unlike Blade and probably Mydeimos, who want to lose HP for a specific purpose, but don't need to keep their HP very low, have reliable self-healing methods and, unlike Arlan, can and prefer to be healed.
I just wanted to add that i love "SUPA BLAAAAAAADE" Mr Pokke cameo 😆
Edit: I demand Belobog dress March skin be released THIS INSTANT.
mhy has had a record of buffing characters in HI3rd, either with direct stat buffs or with "kit upgrades" where you can farm up some resource to transform older Valkyries into newer character versions (on mostly F2P). They just have chosen not to do that with Genshin historically, and even in HI3rd, they were really slow about it.
I'm not too knowledgeable on hi3 but isn't hsr meta more similar to hi3 than genshin? It's certainly faster and more demanding. Hopefully they will implement similar buffs in hsr too
As a FGO player yeah this quite baffles me how such a high product value game like Star Rail just don't do this.
Though my speculation is that they're either inexperienced with balancing or just our right don't care. They'll just probably think balancing a character right before their release is enough until another Neuvillette comes out, then start panicking, then another damage control and then future units just gonna be balanced around him all over again.
Then there's the community that just defend them no matter what the issues which probably doesn't help
Still it's quite frustrating since I like Seele and her design but reluctant to pull for her simple her combat value isn't there and that just sucks
@sugar-lx1jz Agree with all of this tbh. It really does feel like they don't care too much about how characters feel long term, they just release it and are like "good enough"
Good to hear that you're not forgetting a major factor - Gacha player (and to some extend players as a whole at this point) have been trained over the past decade or so to be professional shit-eaters. They will argue in defense of the toxic and flat out predatory behavior of HoYo and other companies instead of calling them out on their bullshit. They will continue to give these companies money, regardless of whether or not the companies trait them right. It's no longer "the customer is always right", but "the customer will eat the served meal and enjoy it, regardless of whether or not it's good".
To be fair, "The customer is always right" is hardly ever "Right" to begin with, and a line has to be drawn somewhere. That line is usually thrown around by people trying to abuse it, and not actually help anything.
Also, saying players have gotten use to toxicity is pushing it. MHY is damn near to blame for other games at the bare minimum having some type of pity in them because they're the standard ATM.
@@Gration_ "The customer is always right in matters of taste" is a full quote
That’s demonstrably true just by looking at the amount of people defending that powercreep! I just mentioned once in a comment section that it was disheartening that almost every cn MoC12 clears was either superbreak or fua and that the powercreep was killing variety in the game, and I was told that my concern was not an issue and that powercreep is necessary for the game to not be stale… I’m actually fine with the 2 year powercreep cycle of genshin, but 6 months in hsr is way too fast like units are almost entirely irrelevant right after their first rerun that’s not ok
I actually roll almost exclusively for gameplay, so I'm the weird one
but in the same breath, I absolutely hate the idea of pulling an OP character and avoid it if at all possible
it's mostly because mihoyo really can't contain themselves on power creeping and frankly goes overboard with with massive HP and scaling jumps each patch
as for your idea for buffing old character, we have the simulated universe, and Herta could use that to make events that create a sorta power up Curio exclusive to units they want to buff. they could start with the older 1.0 characters (not just the 5 stars but the 4 stars as well) and they could release those curios/events over time to bring up underused units
@@Vailsiren that's a great idea to introduce the items, yeah. Curios for a character is great flavortext
FGO buffs characters all the time. I see no reason not to do it.
I like the event idea, and the new traces idea. As nice as it'd be to just buff their multipliers, I think giving Seele a trace that has her resurgence activate within a certain damage condition instead of defeating an enemy outright would do WONDERS for her, without overshadowing her eidolons. Or giving Jingliu a new major trace that gives her a damage boost based on how many syzygy stacks she has; 50% dmg boost for 3, 35% for 2, 25% for 1, etc.
HSR really suffers from "shiny new toy" syndrome much more than other gachas, you straight up *can't* use older units in endgame anymore, and there's not a lot of places to use them besides cheesing in SU or DU. Giving them a little boost alongside rerun banners would be awesome. I wanna use my JL again, man.
I think a dedicated light cone, that can only used by the assigned character, with buffed main and substates, in order to match current difficult. In this hoyo can still earn, While older players still able to enjoy their favourite character for long periods.
The people who pulled on sig will feel bad, just do multiplier buffs
the reason they cant buff chars multipliers directly is cuz it is not legal in chinese law i think unless they had stated it beforehand that chars could be buff. the reason supports dont buff a certain char is cuz it s just not profitable to make a new char tied to an old one
My personal take on the balance issue is
I dont mind characters being objectively weaker, even limited 5 stars, so long as they can clear end game content
However yes, i definitely agree characters like blade could use buffs rather then just supports, though as i said as long as blade can clear mocs with that new hp support i wouldn't mind it as an outcome even if he gets overshadowed again, so long as he can clear it
I think for blade probably the best way they could buff him besides his multiplier is just, giving his enhanced main attack and fua more hits, like what if his main attack had 4 hits instead of 2
Ive never been a fan of the claim that just because the game is a gacha it shouldn't get buffs, i can absolutely agree that nerfs would be stupid but just buffs wouldn't be that big an issue
My personal idea for a buff system would be like as you said in the video, special missions where at the end, the characters recieve a buff, and those buffs are tailored to the character, i already mentioned blade. For jingliu i could see it being similar where her enhanced skill has a new move at the start where she jabs her sword into the enemy and slices upwards to initiate the rest of the skill
For dot perhaps kafka could have a buff where her skill advances enemies forward so their dot triggers more often. Gepard could grant a minor shield after using his skill, not as big as his ultimate or even aventurine's skill shield but enough to do some protecting
i actually heard something about hoyo potentially giving the existing characters new paths to switch between like Trailblazer does.
example:
Giving Kafka a destruction kit that she can switch to in order to make her a bit more interesting and viable.
That was a long time ago I don't think it's true anymore though sorry
DRAGALIA LOST MENTION!!! Another Eden had a cool system with Manifest/True Manifest Battles too.
I like getting shiny new characters but I also like some old favorites. I get that there is usually a flavor of the moment but making it so older characters still have relevance would only mean that I would be more likely to get eidolons.
Some older characters have fallen off so insanely that only a direct buff can salvage their kit now, like why would ANYONE pick Luocha over aventurine now (unless you like him more)? Why would anyone pick Jing Yuan over acheron (pre sunday at least)? Why would anyone pick blade in general?
Honestly I hope they do direct buffs, like some older characters just have ass kits compared to today and just suffer from being too simple. I know its cope, but man some units will unironically never see the light of day at this rate, only JY was able to receive such a humungous buff because LL was slow as shit and needed only to be advanced, other characters have more complex problems than this so wont as easily see their damage doubled or tripled.
I actually think hoyo NEEDS to see this. The ideas are perfect. Since bronya is bout to be powercrept by sunday itd be amazing if they added like a major trace to bronya thatd increase follow up attack damage or crit damage or sum. Just to differenciate her from sunday and keep her relevant. This way she she'd be an alternative to another style instead of just powercrept.
just make bronya buff lasts for 2 turns is so game changer
Your right the powercreep in hsr has gotten way out of hand. It is so bad im thinking about quitting cause what is the point of me investing in a new char when the dont last more then 3 months
I actually quit because of it in 2.2 and just came back and the power creep is insanely real… I’m having fun after my break tho.
Hi3 just kinda buffed an old unit for the first time. They released a new weapon for HoFi Kiana which gives her access to the part 2 system that basically dictates the meta. Now she's meta again.
Because those who received new stuffs still relevant to story. Like Kiana and Yatta. While some like big Bronya fell off cuz she has no screen time in story (by that I mean fight). Hope she get new set along with big Mei when they're back in fight
Nice video, I really like your suggestion! Hope someday at least one of them will come to the game
Limbus Company has mostly resolved the issue of underpowered units and powercreep as a whole.
A big part of it is because the game wants you to play like 5 teams at a bare minimum, every new unit fits into an established achetype and team type (Bleed, Sinking, Poise, Burn, Tremor, Rapture, etc) so when a new unit comes out it's not like "Oh no I guess Y unit is useless now because this one is better" because they both fit into entirely different teams.
There are a few team-agnostic units, units that just do a ton or damage and don't really have synergy with no one else outside of themselves, a few of them were from Launch and are STILL considered to be top 10 (Rabbit Heathcliff, for example)
The units that WERE falling behind stopped lagging behind when the game released Uptie 4.
Uptying is a form of "l'eveling up" which is separate from a units level, and the game originally launched with 3 uptie tiers. When they released uptie 4 they made sure the units that were having some trouble or falling behind benefitting from uptie 4 a LOT more than others, to the point where uptie 4 even had it's own tierlist of WHO benefits the most from it so players had a general idea of who benefits the most at a glance.
There's so many ways HSR could fix the powercreep, so many ways they could lift up older units, or even units that just don't... function in the game as a whole (Yanqing) but they don't. Because Hoyo seems convinced it's either not worth it or will harm their bottom line even though it won't. Like if they rerun Blade and he gets buffed onm that rerun people will roll for him more than if he was just rerun with 0 changes. I feel directly buffing older units to help them keep up also just... gives players more options? The game WANTS to be a teambuilder but it continually puts centerpiece units for teams that make the entire team function as a whole on the backburner or just don't bother rerunning them for whatever reason.
If Hoyo wanted more money they would buff team achetypes that are faltering or failing to keep up (DOT, Hypercarry) and add more endgame content that benefits them more or they would add a new endgame mode that asked players to have more than 2 teams of decent characters.
Right now 2 meta teams carry you through both endgame modes with no issues and that just feels wrong to me esp when I think that in a year from now, my Feixiao might not even matter in terms of meta because FUA might not even matter or function in endgame anymore. It does nothing but instill a feeling of uneasiness that makes me NOT want to spend money on the game to try and keep up because I understand that trying to do so will not work.
Never played Limbus, but this Uptie 4 system sounds very familiar with Battle Cats True Form system. You spend a certain amount of materials to upgrade units into their true forms to make them stronger, this made some old mediocre units become very useful including some old collab units becoming relevant again during a rerun years later.
I feel like this can be implemented into HSR, we already have the ability to change units path so why not change the units into a more powerful new form to make them relevant (and profitable) again.
One easy way to buff units is to add a raid, similarly to how Nikke does it. Not only does it make nearly every single character relevant in your account, but it also gives an incentive to pull for Abundance/Preservation units, and an excuse to use old but favorite characters like Pitch Dark Hook the Great.
For those that don't know, a raid is a megaboss that takes multiple teams to beat. Imagine that instead of two teams defeating two different bosses, it's four teams trying to defeat a single boss. AoE and Blast type abilities would get a separate multiplier so that they can compete with single target.
I talked about this in my last video actually - I gave different ideas for new end game that doesn't rely on cycles/time limits, and raids are one option for that.
I want to use Pitch Dark Hook the Great :D
@@fl2ur Oh shit, I watched that video too, that's where I got the idea from, you're the same guy!
Well, I guess I ought to subscribe to avoid that mixup xD, cheers!
@@gameplayerone3917 Thanks for returning for another video, even if accidentally 😂
Its in Genshin too with imaginarium theater buff where the character can keep the buff in openworld and abyss
Exactly, I'd be so hyped for a certain character getting released but then I remember oh... they'll be powercrept in the next 2 patches or so, so the hype dies, and pulling characters this way kinda just feels obligatory rather than enjoyable... I understand you gacha games need to make money and stuff BUT LET OLDER CHARACTERS STILL HAVE THE TIME OF DAY. Powercreeping every character consistently won't make me suddenly interested in spending money. Because what's the point in getting a character and spending money on it but the next thing you know, boom! Unusable. Get the new flashy character or cry. I'd gladly spend money but in the same time I want to get my money's worth.
And that's what I suggested in the survey. Probably will go unread but idc anymore atp
i really fail to see why they don't do this, its just a super easy way to make money and make people happy, I would honestly pull for characters i didnt before if they started buffing/adding to there kits and honestly i also make me feel more motivated to pull for new characters, because as of right now sometimes if you don't get the new character, there's a good chance there be powercrept already by the time the next dps/support comes out, and unless there overturned as shit like Robin or Aventurine there's a good chance people just might not bother trying, making a rerun feel kinda pointless
About the unique item thing, Good news. I heard somebody saying they're doing that, you will get another slot in your gear and that thing supposedly their chance to buff the outdated units.
Or they can do some lame shit like straight up just increase their stat or some fucking shit.
Source?
@Mr_DE_0395 Hopefully that's true, an exclusive equipment would be neat.
As good as that sounds, it's more likely to be servant related.
There's also LV 90 character skills already coded into the game, which means there's a new ascension level coming which would give them opportunities to release a new major trace for every single character.
@@dumbitchstella if that's true, that's awesome
Honkai Impact 3rd had some cool ideas that sadly didn't appeared in their other games.
You could upgrade each character to SSS rank by using character fragments - If you could farm mats for eidolons or had some other additional progression that can increase base stat of characters in addition to that (Even to a point where you could bring their star rating up), it would probably make some of 4* way more interesting.
Besides that some of older characters had Augment Cores - It was material that you farmed to upgrade characters that gave them toggable alternative set of abilities and move set. It was fun since devs could pretty much made a new characters out of old outdated ones - Kinda like what we've got with March but still the same element and path. Like imsgine toggle that makes Arlan actually useful, while still leaving masochists option to play as the old one.
Augment cores patches historically is the lowest earning points for the game. Do with that information what you want.
@GolgothianSylex Nobody saying that they should stop what they doing and exclusively do augment cores for few months, it just something that they could easily do in addition to current patches to make 4* in them more valuable.
I really want Hoyo to do at the very least have tiny balance patches that change certain characters (such as changing the formula for Super break), that way, the METS doesn't become very stale and revolve around 2 - 3 team archtypes
I'm a Dot enjoyer so yes I'd like to see buffs.
the comparison to fgo is somewhat true , yet also somewhat flaw .
Look at 4* Archer Emiya probably one of the most buffed character within the game or Cu Lancer which is actually a really strong 3* character .
They're both very much viable , usable , but still far out match by someone like Koyanskaya of the Light ( assassin ) / Dark ( foreigner ) .
A more direct comparison would be an early support character like Tamamo / Waver to Merlin , then Scathach Skadi , then Castor Artoria , and now Oberon and Lady Avalon .
They still somewhat have their use , but the chance are few and far in between when compare to Castoria .
( though we also have plenty of good 3* support characters like Hans and Chen Gong that's viable , but require combo character to play with )
Even Berserker character like Raikou which was stable for fast NP clear before Lost Belt is now being replaced by Morgan Le Faye ,
or non-berserker class that can do the same or more amount of damage and can generate faster NP .
Plenty of good free 4* character handout from event Sakamoto Ryoma or Assassin Okita that are still good to this day ,
but the amount of investment require on them are far out weight to that of 5* ones .
Old 5* characters that I think still pretty good to this day that I can think of are Saber Artoria/Arthur , Gilgamesh and Scathach .
To HSR Arlan the arguably worst character in HSR can even do 0 cycle in MoC , but the investment and condition require to do that is so much more .
After bone of his swords many times still not enough to bring him back😢
The thing with supports is that pretty much all of them are still usable. Tamano is still good for cqs. Merlin just got a buff recently making him viable again. Skadi got a resurgence with triple skadi comps. Yes, castoria is broken but running a double castoria comp everywhere isn't even viable either because of 90+/90++ stages.
For dps, they've usually been getting buffed with charge so they work in different looping comps, or damage bonuses so they have a specific niche.
Yea, characters get sort of outscaled, but they'll always have a place to be used, especially when they get a buff. Not to mention, enemies in fgo haven't scaled up to stupid hp amounts outside of the super recollection quests, but those are completely optional, so I really wouldn't even count them.
My personal take which is a bit controversial and this is coming from someone who mainly plays FGO, is that its inherently hard to balance out a game where a good majority of their damage is determined by their relics which is why most "buffs" HSR has gotten has more indirect buffs like the case of our General who has gotten buffed multiple times with Relics increasing Follow up damage and recently a Planar set that buffs summons.This also applies a bit to Blade since I saw people commenting about how the LC from the Rappa music event is a buff to blade. Whether it was a joke or not, its undeniable that characters are buffed indirectly with the introduction of more LC and Relics and in some cases with supports.
This is also disregarding how broken certain Eidolons are for a lot of characters that certain characters feels extremely different at E6 than in E0.
I agree on going the FGO route of buffs tied to adding more effects to certain traces or even certain skills. The scaling issue is a different matter that can be done but in my opinion will be a weird balancing act with either going too high or not enough without taking into account the increase Talent level at E3 and E5. Though with how much Hoyo likes to make enemies be as tanky as possible I don't think it'll be that big of a deal
@yoryuuotonashi Personally I feel like relics fall into the same category as a support does - they help a character but if there's someone else that makes better use of it then it doesn't *really* help them.
Like the DPS set that's with the Sunday relic set that released this patch - i really doubt that was meant for argenti/jingliu/etc, they just benefit from it. It'll really be meant for herta when she releases in 3.0
@yoryuuotonashi This is definitely a good thought though and I appreciate your opinions!
Fgo is about balance meanwhile hsr is powercrept meta
I actually love the idea of hsr implementing fgo's system of buffing units, it would bring back so much more life to the meta and the game overall.
Especially limited unit really deserve to be buffed, I can understand not buffing free/standart units because it could hurt sales, but buffing seele, jy, loucha, sw, blade, jingliu etc benefits them too.
More people would go after lightcones and eidolons of older characters, heck they could even buff bad eidolons along side their base kits.
Its not Hoyo, its HSR team itself who cooked so hard when making new character
The trend of 2 new 5 stars every patch is overwhelming and thats why the powercreep trend is so much compared to Genshin
For example in early DPS, C6 Xiao and C6 Hu Tao is still usable to clear endgame fast in +3 years and they can do solo run too meanwhile C6 Seele and C6 Jingyuan is already struggle with proper team in -2years
My Raiden C3R1 is still clapping the abyss but i don't know about my Acheron E2S1 Acheron in 1 years in the future 😂
I am still waiting for one day to have Kafka be good. Seele could get her Skill to be a blast and reset be skill point free.
I once imagined a way to buff characters. It would be in the form of an endgame mode where each challenge would be customized for each team and character archetype. And as a reward in addition to the usual ones, you would unlock a new skill. They can update this endgame mode every 3.x 4.x etc.
@@samuelpurezaribeiro8565 That would be a cool way to do it - giving gameplay on top of a new skill would be fun!
I think buffing older characters to be great again, but maybe not on par with new characters. What I mean is a system similar to Dokkan Battle's EZA: old units get an awakening that changes their passives (multipliers and overall abilities) completely, making them units on par with the new ones, though new ones still have that bit more to make them appealing and pull-worthy.
This could be done in many ways, as you said. Another idea could be implementing a special relic item unique to that character. Or maybe a relic set. Or maybe a light cone onlye they can use.
Also I think they have not done this yet is still because of money: while yes, people could pull on re-run banners etc. Whales still probably account for a LOT of the money they get, at least 50% but could easily be 80%. Those people would not pull on re-runs, since they would already have E6S5 units.
Another thing they could do to make old characters usable again would be unit-limited stages, where you can only use specific units or just 1 unit.
Ive commented before about this but. Epic7 has a pretty good system for upgrading their characters. It gives them new skills and abilities and stats. It works similar to what you described with story quests and combat challenges. Complete them the character gets reformed. What you described would be way less intensive with just new traces or star boosts or a new line of text. It just doesn’t make sense to not buff these characters when it’s so much easy than crafting a whole new character. Which would take away from plot production in favor of just selling characters.
Gachas are and should more than just character collectors they’re story based games and people have already been frustrated with some story beats or events that don’t really matter. The community has favorite events that still haven’t made a comeback like the pokemon event.
i think the best excuse for a buffing system would be through equilibrium misions. As for how to buff them, i believe a system similar to eidolon could be useful, but instead of needing copies, you would use equilibrium points to unlock them. You would unlock equilibrium points with said equilibrium misions, or maybe in endgame modes, such as moc or differentiated universe. I believe the latter would be better, as you can ration it through patches for f2p, allowing them to choose where to spend them, and letting players buy more for those that want it.
Another option would be to just use equilibrium points to unlock old character eidolons. The older the character is, the less points needed to buy their eidolons (except for counted exceptions, like Ruan mei, who would be a fixed number of points until it is not meta anymore), and new character with less than 1 or 2 years wouldn´t be able to unlock it through equilibrium points. this sistem allows f2p players to invest in characters they like, and incentivizing upgrading old characters while also allowing to save for new units. you just need 1 copy of the character, and if you choose to try a old one, you´ll have an easier time building him, cause you can buy all the eidolons. if you have all the reruns, you can focus on the new one, or try to get their eidolons faster with the banners, if each eidolon is still to expensive. either way, it allows players to focus on obtaining new characters, while allowing players to buy one copy of the old ones they like, and then building them to full potential. I just think it is a good idea that would take minimal effort to implement (specially short term), where you allow bad character to be unlocked at half price, and good ones taking months or years to build, incentivicing pulling for good reruns of good characters, but because bad characters can get an easy E6, they´ll sometimes be as good as an E1 or E0 meta character.
iirc in some interview devs said that they are going to make new paths for old characters in the future (like with march 7 and MC), but i don't remember where)
I definitely think at some point you need to buff there numbers. I think older units are really feeling it and I’d like to see my jing yuan, blade, and jinglui who I love and want to play be more generically viable. Like in genshin older units usually arnt as good but at least they’re still playable and can beat all the end game content it’s very hard these days to use seele, jjnglui, etc.
The devs might have overcooked when designing the big three (Acheron Feixiao FF) who can bypass any weakness super easily, I don’t even remember when was the last time I had the need to use my DHIL or Jingyuan if the content isn’t imaginary-lightning (and even then I’ll use other teams)
Me and my friend group were talking abt this hsr needs this very badly compqred to other hoyo games where player skill can mostly brute force even the hardest power creep it is a turn based game based on random substat roles and every fight is a number check if the fights get so hard or the enemies reach hp where they are unable to even get close to defeating them you really feel at a loss only the new shiny dps (whitch they most likely catered the mode to anyway) can usually clear it with ease making people fustrated and just roll them for a easy way out i really hope they do a older unit buff system soon :>
I'm a new player that started this summer (just after Firefly's banner, huge bummer) and it sucks seeing cuaracters Im interested in like Blade and Jing Yuan just not being good enough for the investment. They are so subpar that I'd rather spend the TB power just farming relics, despite really liking those characters! I would totally pull for them if Hoyo actually buffed them directly instead of leaving them by the wayside.
I think the only way I could see them buffing characters is by basically giving them an option to have a second light cone and a extra trace, level 90 but I dont see them buffing characters directly with direct multiplier change, its unlike mihoyo sadly.
Depends on how good that extra trace would be, maybe they'll do some skin that buff your stat while there at it at this point
one of the other games i play: granblue fantasy also does rebalance patches for older characters pretty regularly to make them usable or on par with newer units and its very nice to see your old fave benefit from this. i really do hope hoyo reconsiders and starts doing this for hsr bc otherwise what would be the point of reruns for old characters or rolling for them if they're significantly weaker and have a harder time clearing content than the newer shinier ones? why would anyone want blade or seele when that new guy does everything they do and more? like sure new supports can only do so much. i wonder if more of us start speaking about this in feedback surveys maybe they''ll listen and consider it.
I want as many creators addressing this issue as possible. But Arlan he needs it more than anyone...
Idk how they buff characters or give reworks without ruining there kits, salute to blade gang
Take Breakcheron as an example of a weird comp that works well in the endgame content.If you literally swap out Firefly for Acheron, you can clear the current MoC 12 in 2 cycles. It's weird how there are no Nihility characters with her. For the extra damage, you can try solo sustain Welt in place of Gallagher.
Acheron is still fine herself since they gave her the most dedicated support in history and he has been keeping her afloat. Asking for ANOTHER dedicated acheron debuffer could be cope, since even DoT hasn’t seen an upgrade since 2.0 and thats a major archetype too, while she is a singular unit.
Like im pretty sure every other gacha on the market does character buffs. Granblue has 5* uncaps, arknights has modules, blue archive has bond equipment, fgo has rank ups. And then you play a hoyo game and see characters and entire teams be completely unuseable in less then a year. Hsr has worse powercreep then all these games combined and still does not buff.
@lordradiance2530 Hopefully they can figure it out, cause man it sucks
I think a good idea to be able to buff characters would be to rework them but essentially keeping them the same for those who enjoy them for example making Seele simply have her talent proc whenever she does a certian percentage of health to a enemy simialir to herta
I'm glad that stelle has the same voice actor as morgan from fgo which is the one and only wife I need. Now I can imagine her as another funny persona from another game. That is the reason I can't stop playing FGO JP cuz dev team are really considerate for all those money spent by their playerbase for their old favorite characters. Sadly I don't have gilgamesh yet but I'm still pulling for him cuz he is cracked since launch even to this day. It is so sad to see when your favorite character are getting less effective for endgame content that always catching up with new meta characters. If this trend keep going on with hoyoverse game, playerbase will consider spending money cuz they know that one day that character will get powercrept anyway.
I know characters like aventurine is good and seems to last quite long as a good tanker in most team. But wait until Hoyoverse release new enemy that can pierce shield. Aventurine is absolutely cooked after that on top of hoyoverse release new sustain that can mitigate penetrations
they can realease new supports, like an HP drain support for Balde and Jingliu
If anyone played dokkan battle dragon balls mobile game before dragon ball legends they buffed really old units with ezas giving them a variety of uses. How you get them? Clear a specific event where you use your team and beat it until the final stage 30 to get all the medals or in star rails case could just be hunt or whatever class materials to lets say you get 40 then you can buff all the units capabilities, stats and even fix some flaws the unit has or buff what they good at. Dokkan battle is a turn based gacha game like this too by the way. Sure some cases the old units compare to the new ones or even is better with the z awakening but it really helps quality of life and have a variety of versatile choices even if the old buffed unit isnt as good as the new things
I will translate here what Honkai's way of buffing old characters in HSR terms:
1. Seele: Let's say next patch Seele gets a new light cone that we can gacha for. The hunt lightcone will have some normal stats like a bit of crit rate and attack, followed by "Seele equip bonus:" followed by a long text saying how her skill will be replaced by an execute against mobs, she's permanently in her enhanced state, and her ulty ignores deff entirely, kills mobs regardless of their HP and executes elites and bosses. (Execute (instakill if they drop below X% max HP) Also, she gets stacks from executing stuff with her skill, that are consumed when ulting to deal additional damage. Now we only need to pair her with Sunday, Sparkle, and a maybe Fu Xuan, give her another set because she now ignores deff already. Maybe that new sett from 2.6. And she's a hypercarry that can compete.
2. Silver Wolf: For her lightcone, some effect hit rate and the wielder's skill no longer costs skill points. Silver Wolf equi bonus: After Silver Wolf inflicts all 3 bugs from her talent on an enemy, he is debuffed with "Hacked" for 3 turns, boosting the effect of the bugs by X ammount. When they act, they spread the debuff to a random enemy. Silver Wolf's ultimate resets the duration of the debuffs and hits every "Hacked" enemy.
3. Luocha: For the equip bonus: During his abyss flower field, Luocha gains enhanced basic attacks with guaranteed crit rate that restore 2 SP and heal the whole team. Also, the whole team has massive crit damage boost during abyss flower field. This way he will contribute with as much damage as Aventurine and Lingsha, but for hypercarry teams.
4. Jing Yuan: Aglaea will be the better summon lightning dps, but as an erudition we can make Jing Yuan good again in Pure Fiction. Summon damage increased, Jing Yuan equip bonus, make him remembrance character and gives him a second lightning lord. Jing Yuan gains new skill that action advances one lightning lord by 50% and increases it's damage, new ult that counts as lightning lord damage, it's animation will be Jing Yuan coordonating both lightning lords for a combined attack.
This was 1.0-1.1, ask for 1.2-1.5 if you want moar. And yeah, you'll have to gacha for a new lightcone, but at least your fav character has better gameplay and is usable.
but they already have a Signature Weapon. What if i pulled for a s5 Seele LC?
@bribriibribrii Then you've paid those stellar jades to enjoy the Seele at that time. If you like Seele more than the current meta damage dealers, you have to pay again to upgrade your Seele over unlocking other damage dealers. This is how it works. Either get new characters, either you vertically invest into old ones so they can keep up with the new ones.
9:02
Too bad this system is dropped/abandoned in HI3. Augment cores were used for very very very old units that are still not meta.
Yeah, the failure system. Now SP characters as well with new gacha system.
They should do something like dokkan battle where older units gets eza
From what I’ve heard the reason why old characters will never get updated(in any of the games) has to do with some type of Chinese law towards gatcha games that the characters in the game can never be changed because when you actually obtain the character, you kind technically own that character version so if hoyo makes a change They are altering property and that becomes grounds for a lawsuit hoyo has legitimately been sued over fixing the spin bug for Neuvillette so they legitimately can’t or it would actually damage the game, and also hoyo is incredibly cautious when actually implementing characters or making changes because they have been sued multiple times in the past over their characters and at one point in time almost got the company shut down over a singular impact3rd skin, China is a communist country This type of stuff is very common.
Hoyo is even tamer in this regard than other companies. At least the powercreep doesn't mean old units cannot give you the max rewards, they can still. I've known a few games where they just made new content unclearable with old characters. Worst are the games with PvP.
I don’t think it’s exactly impossible to make a support that would make blade stronger without the next go scaler being broken.
You could possibly make it so that they character could be an abundance with a DOT they apply on their team. (Make it so it would leave the character at 1 hp instead of killing if they are too low.) blade has ways to increase dps without outright buffing dmg unconditionally. You could also have a character that gives a buff to others based off of how much their hp has fluctuated
same like it's been 2 years? since hsr came out (correct me cuz i just started on firefly patch)
just like u said i also came from other gcaha where they buff old characters even the standard characters(in fgo) to be relevant with current meta characters
idk why hoyo just refuse to do so and just power creeping old characters like superbreak just introduced just few patches and summon meta is coming so what happens to older characters that aren't superbreak or summon like Clara seele etc
even their genshin isn't that bad with powercreeping old characters like hutao yoimiya still can be compare to latest alc nuv but on weaker side in abyss but still compareable
Every turn based gacha in the market buffs characters. I think they should start working on something because there is absolutely 0 reason to play Natasha, for example.
I sometimes still play underperforming characters like March (Preservation) because of her perma-freeze capability, which i find really fun. But for characters like Natasha, there is nothing going for her... she just... heals... that's it. That's a pity because i love Natasha as a character.
Another thing that makes me sad is the fact that Fire and Phys MC will probably never be relevant again. Especially after Harmony and possibly Remembrance.
Came here to say Sunday will buff our boy Jing yuan :)
welp hoyo tends to buff old chars by giving them a new weapon (hi3) so maybe with differents LCs the chars can be buffed
short answer : they forgor 💀
I think they wont buff units unless they can make money off it, so the closest thing I think they would do is maybe have a new light cone in the future be a better option than their signature. Otherwise only new better relics is the only option.
Good take 👍🏻
3:41 support improve their performance not their baseline multiplier thats literally why jingliu fell off within 2 patch after release cuz she self buff with too much stat while having 0 multiplier that her own self buff get diluted with other support
Sunday will probably buff the general
I've pitching the idea of buffing characters ever since 1.x and since Seele's fall off there is literally no reason not to do it because it could bring them revenue for old banners and reduce powercreep
I don't think it's about money, I think Hoyo created a monster with HSR's gacha and they cannot tame it. It pumps out too much stuff too fast, and even the devs cannot keep up.
- 32 limited 5*s
- 7 standard 5*s
- 39 signature light cones
Not to mention that there are technically 65 characters in the game as of the drip marketing/etc. for 3.0. There's too much going on and the game is not even 2 years old. I wish HSR would slow down on new characters and find ways to make the old ones better.
They should take a page out of WuWa's book. WuWa does buff old units with new characters and weapons, but it's easier to do that with fewer but better characters. Shorekeeper is universally good for any team. Verina is universally good. Rover is really good and we all have him. We all can have Sanhua, etc. They really slow it down on the banners too, with 1.0, 1.1 and 1.2 having two new limited 5*s each but the reruns began in 1.2 already with Jiyan, and 1.3 now will have Yinlin's rerun... you can catch up. You can get the signature weapons, etc. when there are only:
- 8 limited 5*s
- 5 standard 5*s
- 13 5*s weapons
The game is only 6 months old, and it's a lot easier to focus on making the characters you have better by pulling a new good support, or another sub-DPS that synergizes well.
You are comparing a 6 months old game to an almost 2 year old game..when hsr was 6 months old it was also releasing universally good characters, but the fact is that they cant do that forever. Just wait a year or two in wuwa and see how it becomes. Also, hsr gives even better free characters than wuwa. We have hmc who is literally meta defining, march7th hunt who is really good, also gallagher who is a top tier sustainer
@@zzzy1934 I'll take your word on how HSR was 1.3 years ago I wasn't there. Maybe the same fate will befall WuWa in time.... I hope not, but we shall see.
I'd love to benefit from some of that generosity - I missed Gallagher and Dr. Ratio. I haven't got to the part where I unlock March 7 the Hunt either. Harmony Trail Blazer I agree is META defining, he never leaves my team, which is a super break team. So if March 7 is as impactful as you say, I'll look forward to unlocking her. :)
@@zzzy1934If Jinhsi gets the DHIL treatment in like a year in Wuwa im gonna be laughing so hard bruh😂
As a note upgrade systems for old units rarely stay to older characters. Dokkan added EZAs which at first made old units more relevant in modern content then more recent units until powerful new units started getting it. It made earlier content easier but they just upscaled the endgame to match. You could clear older things but newer content preferred newer characters.
Even if you upgrade Clara or Yanxin if Yunli and Jingliu also get buffed to then it just makes some modes easier. You might as well just base update the character to keep up with changing dps and survivability expectations
@keve5534 I'm not super familiar with dokkan, but I've heard they definitely helped older units at least. If end game gets scaled up, that's a whole other issue
Sparkle traces Only wanting buff quantum really makes her less viable than any other harmony
They need to do reworks or unit strengthenings the way that Cookie Run or FGO does it. 😮💨😮💨😮💨
Maybe I'm just coping but I'm still not convinced HSR is going to continue experiencing powercreep on the scale it had in the first year. I do still agree with buffing old characters and it sounds really exciting but I never had the same sense of dread at all.
The only two gacha games I've played prior were Genshin and Fire Emblem Heroes which might be plaguing my perception a bit though. Genshin IMO has had the same average power level of characters since just before Sumeru with just a few overtuned characters slipping through whilst FEH on the other hand had very very blatant powercreep where stat totals increase and weapons would gain a whole extra line of text every year. When I think of powercreep, I think of how FEH just made it a part of the design but HSR more mirrors Genshin rn in my mind. Since Ruan Mei, Fu Xuan and Acheron I really don't feel like there's been anymore big jumps so it seems very feasible to me that Firefly, Jade, Robin, Aventurine, etc. will remain the upper level and won't be replaced by a new wave. Also in Genshin and HSR I'm yet to bench anyone past the first couple months (the only DPS I've ever benched were Diluc, QQ and 4* DH) but most people don't seem to have the same experience. It is a matter of prediction so I could 100% be wrong
Its so backwards how hoyo wants us to worship and idolize their characters (making most of them perfect, any flaws are to be cute or pity them, the whole “OMG I NEED THEM I NEED TO PROTECT THEM” cult they foster),
BUT when it comes to making us want to use them or even pull them its crickets
If new characters cant draw interest without being unequivocal powercreeps then make better characters its not hard (cough cough, rappa 🤢)
I wish there was I want to run mono quantum but why summon on silver wolf and seele I love there design now when I have the three meta teams and some of the 4 stars are cool but no point when my meta teams clear everything as much as I love new units the old deserve at least a second time in the spotlight
But hoyo shills will be like" but those other gacha already lose in term of revenue compared to hoyo games, so why shoul they buff older characters if new op characters will brings them more profits"
Yeah so the problem is there is a system built in the game for us to buff our older characters. Re-run banners and getting eidolons/Sigs. They wont be meta; they wont 0 cycle or 1 cycle. But they can get the job done if invested. Otherwise no, a year old Jinglu wont compete on similar levels than a fresh new Feixiao. DPS in particular have there time in the sun with little to no investment, then as the months pass, if people want to keep using old tools, ok. Then invest in them.
I saw someone clear MOC 12 with Jinglu. No money spent. But, they invested in that Jinglu to keep her relevant. And sometimes that can be through supports as well. Speaking of, this of course changes when more supports get released. Jing Yuan for example is about to be fantastic thanks to sunday, DHIL has a comeback when Sparkle landed, Super break helped everyone but especially Himeko, etc. Idk, Im ok with this. End of the day, as long as it is possible to clear the content and get the rewards (hell I can with an E0 S0 Kafka and freaking Sampo) then its fine. If people want to 0 or 1 cycle and not think? Get the shiny new toy and click auto battle. If people want to use characters from a year ago basically? Ok, use that brain, invest, plan, etc and beat it in 3 or 4 or more cycles. Just my perspective
The problem with eidlonons is that its only available through getting the same unit multiple times, which cant be called a buff since only some people have access to it, and some of them are blatantly trash. The problem with investment that 1. It isnt guaranteed and stops you from investing in others, and 2. That isnt guaranteed. Both of these rely on luck, and doesnt change the problem that dwels in the character itself
While I know it's impossible I wish they would just nerf the new characters and go back to 1.X power level again, it's just so frustrating to see strategies that I liked using in the past becoming irrelevant after every update and being replaced with new, lamer versions of them. I remember the game being so more engaging when I was obligated to use shit sustains like Natasha and M7 and actually have to think on how to get out of a battle alive, doing silly stuff like combining Yanking and Welt to stunlock enemies, using Clara as a sub-dps and tank for Arlan main-dps and so much more stuff. You can still do these kind of things, but the DPS, Speed and Sustain requirement now is so high that you're basically obligated to follow the meta somewhat if you want to do any endgame, even if you want to do challenges like 4* clears you are glued to OP stuff like Gallagher and IMG Trailblazer and can't really steer away from it anymore.
At this point I honestly feel like it's a matter of time until I just get done with it and uninstall the game forever, which is a shame since I really thought this game had potential to be great but it fell flat IMO, heck your videos are probably going to make me go back to FGO at this point after a year since I also quit that game as at least I know I can still do the silly stuff I loved doing in that game if I go back now.
@dumbitchstella Hey, fgo has its problems(gacha being the biggest part) but the gameplay and story are definitely fun still imo(LB7 soon too!). If you go back, give me your fc, would be happy to add you 😊
More video related, yeah. All the new mechanics and busted units being added feel like they continuously strip away more and more gameplay incentives you have to actually play with. Elements? Now there's implant and ignore. Break bars? Superbreak + exo toughness soon. Dots? Enemy speed makes them wear off. Action delays/freezes? Same deal. Combine all that with time limits and it feels like all that's left is story. Which is fine, that's by and large the reason I still play fgo for example. But, when the story is bananas and ninjas... uhh... yeah.
@@fl2ur You know the new units are bad (from a gameplay perspective) when my newest 5* DPS is Dr. Ratio, and I didn't even pull for him, mf just spawned in my mail. I have 150 pulls saved but there just isn't any incentive to pull for me, the new characters are so strong that would just make the game more boring, and if I wanted to pull an older character the amount of farming I would need to do just to make them viable is not worth it. So I'm kinda stuck with my current units and since the endgame is very repetitive I kinda already reached the peak of what I could do besides the story, which as you said is not that great.
Btw my FGO code is 025,492,010, I still have the game installed just to keep my account safe. Got some silly stuff in the support too, buncha lv80 3*, lvl 116 Gogh and a lv 100 lancer Cú and Nemo.
@dumbitchstella That's fair, yeah, especially if you're looking for more unique units than broken dps 49 lmao.
Sent you a request on fgo, your grails are based 🫡
Idk, arguments sound really weird.
Yes, people who pull for looks will pull their favourite character no matter their power level.
Yes, people who only pull for meta give Hoyo more money when they pull new OP character every 3-4 patches than when every character is more or less equal.
Blade rerun 3.0 please i have all the E6s1 characters I want besides Jingliu and Blade since I started playing .-. I NEED E6S5 BLADE THE DREAM MY FAVORITE CHARACTER
At the risk of getting downvoted, I just don't agree that units need to be buffed. I pulled for Seele day one and I have been able to reliably clear up to MoC 12 very consistently with her. Did I need to farm more to get her build up to par with what other characters can do? Sure. Was my Firefly out damaging my Seele with half the time farming? Yes. But has that stopped me from using exclusively Seele in all of the story based content and never having a problem? No.
Hell there are people out there who use Arlan (Arguably the weakest character in the game) to clear MoC12.
And if you want your character to be even stronger than what's necessary to clear MoC12, then what's even the point?
Yanqing, which is probably the worst damage character in everyone's opinion, can be buffed by allowing his passive to activate before he performs his skill, as well as higher chance of freeze. This way, Yanqing will be able to early freeze the boss and it can bring huge advantages.
This is an opinion since crit team is maybe the weakest team comp.
i honestly want buff but i understand why they dont bring buff. Sinse HI3rd Mihoyo unit design was clear "we design units for a damage gap and them we improve over that with new units" They were a little too far the first 2 years of that game and the gap between year 1 units and year 2 units is crazy. Blade feel like a very comepent and very GOOD unit if you take any unit that was launch in HI3rd in a similar date when that game was launch and make a comparation of damage of both vs their direct powercreeps.
Them with Genshin their learn that people backlash from failing buff or other flaws. Their conclusion is that Buffing units dont solve popularity problems unless you overdoit and them you end with units like Zhongli eclipsing other units on the same job forever. So their solution is simple: make units look great in their whole version and them make units that look better. This seems a very greedy approach but the balance in this game is far better than HI3rd even low damage units can dealt with new content (belive me, not in that game). Eidolons improve their damage a lot so fans can enjoy them even more.
If their start buffing units a lot of problems and drama and refund will be ask. People is NOT happy when after their spend money on a NEW unit the OLD unit becomes the better option because a buff and replaces the NEW unit. People is surely sad when a NEW unit replaces an OLD unit but they dont mind it that much because "that is how gacha operates" (thats actully how any non-competitive game operates)
They don't buff any of the older characters cuz then players won't be pulling for the newer characters and hurt their sales, It's that simple.
Just to clarify something. The reason they do not buff older characters by changing multipliers or adding a line of text like you said is that they can't I am pretty sure there is a rule or some legal reasons behind it, after the character is released. So they can buff older characters only with new supports at this point.
Excuse me, but where did you hear this? It doesnt break any contract, and if the buff is an unlock you cant even make the excuse that people did with Neuvilette in Genshin. Not to be rude, but this sounds like blatant misinformation
@@FakeStuff5 i'm pretty sure it's a chinese law that falls under false advertising or something? i don't know the specifics or if it's even true but i assume that's what they're talking about
@@FakeStuff5 you didn't notice the pattern of them indirectly buffing jing yuan? hoyo knows he's mid, but rather than doing like league of legends does and go "jing yuan's skill attack ratio is increased", they instead go for indirect buffs like the the new relic sets released just for him and other summons. they legally can't directly buff him
@@worrydodo We gotta remember that they did buff Zhong once before. I get why people would think that after the situation with Neuvilette, but im pretty sure they changed it because of the backlash from the Chinese community. Like changing the amount of spining he could do would'nt count as false advertisement
@@worrydodo not how false advertising works, it only means they can face legal issues if they NERF a character, because then you didnt get what you potentially paid for (there was this issue with Neuvilette in genshin because they fixed a bug), but buffing a character is fine
0:17 very based. very very based.
I think the argument I'm not seeing enough about is the conversation around Eidolons. If I'm Hoyo, why would I buff old units if I can bake buffs into Eidolons to encourage players to pull more to increase their power? Hell, some Eidolons give significant boosts or changes to the unit, making them more efficient at what they're already doing (though old units had some pretty awful Eidolons I'll admit). This is especially true in comparison to games like FGO and Dragalia which the former has damage buffs for copies while the latter had nothing for dupes. Dragalia has no reason to whale and to my knowledge FGO's pity isn't exactly friendly to those who really want to invest hard in a character. I don't think FGO got pity until a year or two ago anyway? Meanwhile, games like Hoyo games regularly encourage whaling because the strength or utility increase is significant even in the first or second copy of the character and the character is guaranteed after a certain number of pulls.
So the question becomes this instead: "Does buffing old units interfere with encouraging players to vertically invest?"
Let's start with the first one: new supports are vertical investment for old units. Sure I could buff the DPS's damage or utility or I could bake that damage / utility into a brand new unit. If players invest more with Eidolons and Signature LCs of that support, they can make their old DPS even stronger. This is even better if I run the old DPS with the new support, like running Sparkle with Jing Yuan (or Sunday with Jing Yuan, hello 2.7) because now they can whale for both. This not only helps old units keep up but gives them a shiny new support that will perfectly slot in with the brand new DPS that uses them even better. From there, they can have a choice of pulling the new, stronger unit or using their old one but either way, I, as Hoyo, make money. Sure this may upset fans of the old units but as long as the banners sell well it doesn't matter.
Second, if I decide to buff an old unit, does that interfere with its existing Eidolons? Lets use your Seele buff for an example (which I know was just an example and not exactly indicative of what they'd do but I think it's a good example of what I'll get to). The buff of "triggering her talent if she kills an enemy" is, without a doubt, better than *any* of her current Eidolons. Her current ones are give an extra speed boost, energy, and some extra damage after ult but that's it. On the one hand, it's a great talent and I think any Seele player would appreciate it. But on the other hand, not only would I never pull for her Eidolons if I didn't have them after this buff but if I did have Eidolons for her I'd feel conflicted. Is it worth pulling for Eidolons on old units, especially if they're not very strong, if later buffs are significantly stronger? And is it worth pulling Eidolons at all if a buff may give them a significant upgrade that may even be better than an Eidolon? Of course, I could make this talent a little more balanced and more in line with some of her Eidolons but if the buff isn't significant enough to help the old unit keep up then it doesn't even feel worth it. So you end up with a challenge of making a buff that feels significant enough to be worth it for current / new users but not enough to overshadow Eidolons. Sure, that's doable, but is it worth it especially this early in the lifespan when they're still adding new archetypes / paths?
I think but the basic idea I wanted to touch on is that I think Eidolons are a big factor into why we don't see characters buffed. Sure, old Eidolons pale in comparison to new ones, and they could even consider buffing Eidolons (which has its own host of problems), but I ultimately believe that's hard to get around. It'd be cool to have old units back in the spotlight and I'd love to see something like character quests come back (which have mysteriously disappeared since Black Swan's but I guess they're involved in events so that's fine) but I think that would need to be addressed first.
Also wow sorry for typing so much. Did not expect to have this much to say! Thanks for reading if you got this far
@Afrohawk512 Read the whole thing, no worries about the long comment!
Imo, if they were to implement buffs, I don't see a reason why they couldn't double dip. For example, Seele gets the hypothetical buff I threw out in the video, but then also gets a buff to her e1 or e2 where that resurgence triggers something new(like makes it aoe), or makes the resurgence proc considered a followup so it can get double buffed.
They have options, it all just depends on how creative they get.
@@fl2ur Hey thanks for reading! I appreciate the conversation haha.
I think buffing both the unit and their Eidolons would be a solid idea. It'd both reward whales / previous investors while encouraging others to invest in Eidolons in the future. The only caveat I see that could cause an issue there is the public opinion. Buffing Eidolons, even if they buff the base kit as well, still has a chance of being received negatively because players may feel they have to get Eidolons for a character to be good. This is also a scary precedent for future characters as a positive reception would encourage Hoyo to lock more abilities behind Eidolons (which they aren't strangers to but it's not something they need more encouragement for haha). It is possible they could create a both bolsters their base kit while buffing their Eidolons, it'd just be tough to balance and would need careful consideration.
But yeah, I like the idea. I just think there's a lot to consider for how these buffs affect old and new units alike, especially if newish units start getting buffed as well.
Its a statbased, turnbased game with a lot of powercreep. Characters getting stronger, endgame getting harder with higher hp pools.
That's how this game works, they are not gonna buff old characters. They are meant to be phased out
Nah, take cue from Genshin. When HSR hits 5.0, new characters then will hit 1 mil damage without even minmaxing and the old characters? They'll mostly just fade into nothingness save a few rare ones that might bounce back a little from new synergies with new teams. Data is telling Hoyo that it works and big money is still coming in and there's no stopping it.
2.6 has really very little contents and the Rappa experience for those on the fence only gets to experience the souped-up version in the trial run, her story doesn't give players much. Instead, they gave players a major event with her story tied in as a music game. Then the following minor events were nothing more than just goods exchange. It's to me the worst patch ever, since playing from 1.5. Still, I think this patch would instead, ballooned HSR's revenue mainly because there're Acheron and Aventurine.
It's nothing personal. It's just business. As long as players continue to vote with their wallets, the strategy is safe and sound to continue. So my take on playing Gachas, don't spend. If things don't turn out right after a long time, just leave. Apart from time spent, nothing is lost.
Conclusion: hsr is a game for a gacha addict
Why is it always the Blade Mains?
Hypercarries are bad for game design, so Hoyo decided to stop supporting them. It isn't that hard a concept.
The existence of Hypercarries as a central part of the meta not only warps character design around needing more support options, but also enemy/encounter design.
Some of the early units really need buffs or a kit rework yanqing was my first ever 5 star dps and carried me to early and mid game but his kit is so cluncky with this random follow up and his numbers are not the best lets just say that 😅