I like Remington .357 Mag because it's everywhere. If it's not HTP, it's UMC, if it's not those it's the old school "Express". I like how they don't screw with a good product and just rename it when necessary for sales.
The .357 Mag did surprisingly well for budget ammo. I'm fine with it being kind of fragile as long as the fragments do more than just get deposited along the main wound path, the majority of the projectile gets past the 12" mark, and it expands meaningfully. This one works.
That 357 load is a little spicy! The 357 load also had explosive expansion in your gel tests. Too much expansion, a phrase we never heard about handgun ammo until fairly recently. Back in the day, it was usually a lack of expansion that everyone griped about. Things change.
Does any other viewer miss the bologna pack flying apart? I know the gel is a more visual way to show expansion, but that bologna flying everywhere was entertaining. Cheers!
Glad you tested these. I have been looking at these recently. My 357 mag has a 6 inch barrel, but Taurus does make an 8 inch barrel 357 and several manufacturers of single action revolvers make 7.5 inch barrel variants.
I've used quite a bit of Freedom and LAX ammo. I too have noticed strange points of impact and larger than usual groups with their stuff. I've used their 9mm, .380, .357 and .38spl.
Good test, Sam! While I'm not especially impressed with either of these, neither are the worse ammo one could buy! The 9mm penetration wasn't great but should work ok as home defense as that's when shots are most likely going to be straight on. I'm also not impressed that the 357 seperated the jacket & core but, still the damage was there so it can't be scoffed at. With this ammo being in 50 round boxes for the same price as 20 rounds of premium SD ammo, these are viable rounds for someone who is on a budget (or is just plain cheap!). They both seem shootable which is always a plus, especially the 357. I'm not likely to be switching anytime soon but this ammo isn't the worst one could buy! Cheers, jc
Hi gun Sam. Very good video. And 2 very nice pistol and revolver. . Good shooting as always. I've never owned a 9 mm. I might have to check on a 1911 in 9 mm. God bless.9😊
Gun Sam. I would use this for self defense aginst 2 legged varmints. But would not carry aginst 4 legged varmints. For that I carry my 357 with hard cast hand loads. I've taken 3 deer so far. And get complete penetration. And they were very effective. 😊
Really good test. For budget ammo the 357 won but I think both worked just fine. I appreciate your 75 yard shooting. It helps with how the ammo performs. Glad you call your shots as we all miss but at least we know when we do it.
I almost exclusively buy freedom munitions. Happy to see it perform well! I shoot lots of 38/357 and they pretty much always have good prices. Good 9 mil too. Thanks for the video!
Nice test Sam! FM makes ammo at really decent prices. You never know if budget ammo (or any ammo) is going to perform though. I just checked their site and they make the x-def in 158g for the 357 and 135g, and 147g for the 9 too. I bet there is a sweet spot to be found there.
I always found Evan Marshall and Ed Sanows one shot stop records the most conclusive. If my memory serves me correctly the 357 magnum had the best record at 97%, 2nd was the 40 S&W at 93% followed by the 45acp, 38 spcl+P and the 9mm.
Never had a problem w/freedom ammo. Love this presentation but never saw the use of using wood. If I cant get a good sight picture of my shot, i'm not gonna shoot thru a door. Cops can do it, but they have immunity when they make mistakes. Keep up the good work; your my -go to- guy since the professor passed.
Im a big fan of Freedom and LAX, but I have only used this stuff for range ammo. I had no idea, but not shocked that they have carry ammo. The .357 could be a great back up option for the always reliable and affordable Remington G&W UMC.
Thanks for your efforts with these. Both look like viable defense rounds, but I would like to see them tested in shorter barrels of the type used most often for concealed carry. My 9mm carry guns have 3.5" barrels and my .357 Magnum carry gun has a 2.5" barrel.
I just found your channel and like your testing methods. Could you possibly do a test of 40s&w, 10mm, 357 mag, and 44 mag all with buffalo bore hard cast. I enjoyed your last video, but i was curious how the 305 and 340 grain buffalo bore hardcast will do against a 10mm. I was also curious how the 40 stacks up against the 10 and 357. Sorry for the random request. Again, great content.
Looks like 9mm have the same problem as winchester silvertips in 1986. A lot of expansion but underpenetrated. Curious to see if the same design will penetrate better at 147 gr
Been wondering if the x-def bullets from X-treme bullets are any good. Very few videos with people testing them... The couple vids i did find the gel was pretty dark and hard to see in videos. 2:12
This video put Freedom on my radar ., so I checked out their website . If this is representive of their quality , I'm going to have to stock with some of the less commonly seen at LGS calibers .
I bought 10 boxes of freedom munitions x def during covid. I've had bullets fall right out of the casing many many times. Peppered all the powder in my Glock 43x and m&p shield. Not good ammo imo.
I use these 9mm 124+P's in my 3.2" EDC. I think the less velocity would be perfect. Now you have me thinking their 135 +Ps for the longer barrel would be best.
LOL.. I still have some old (half a box or so) Hydra shks for both 44 mag and 45 acp In .357 I still have a few boxes of Federal 125 grain HP which in 1996 had a 96% stop rate.... good enough for me and the girls I go out with. my 44 spl load is a handload of a 250 grain cast and coated SWC at around 850 fps Sooo...I have a couple of 32 autos including a PPK and (gasp) my little Beretta jetfire in 25 auto. (hey 8+1) For these mouse gun calibers I have always figured to just use hardball since penetration and reliable feeding are the main things. the other day I bought my girlfriend a Beretta Tomcat in .32. I got her a box of hardball and one of some zoot tacticool defense rounds. What I am looking at tho is a .32 hard cast flat point at 36 grain with some decent velocity Flat point is slightly better than round nose and more velocity is welcome If they feed reliably I might suggest she use those.. What do you think?
These bullets perform like they were designed for a 38 Special. That said they would be good for stacking deep if you were going for quantity but I would never use them for carry.
If not for capacity the 357 magnum is still the cartridge to beat. The 357 magnum is the 30/06 of handgun cartridges. Capacity is misleading its a lot easier to justify 1 or 2 shots than multiple in a self defense shooting. There's one part of a use of force form that's scrutinized quite a bit by prosecutors is the number of shots fired.
I loved the playful comments after first .357 shot on target. A stereotype, but stereotypes are what they are because they have some bit of truth to them.
SAM are you down to do some ammo swap for testing? I'd like to test the Magnum in water and have Fiocchi Defense Dynamics 125 gr u tested 142 & I just need like 8-12 rds of stuff etc water jug and accuracy I'm sure we both have some stuff the other could test
On the .357 mag and stopping power you are not wrong on 'one should do it' In marshals excellent study 'Street Stoppers' Out of print and I had loaned mine out years ago but found one on Ebay... The 125 grain HP was king with 94-96% one shot stops when the center mass was hit. One of the better documented calibers with maybe a thousand documented shootings all told What is interesting tho is that he includes a table later in the book that documents 'double taps' and how effective they were Basically? they were pretty useless waste of time and ammo. they increased the stops by like 1% with the .357. most calibers the increase was minimal with maybe 2-3% better results. The worst calibers for power and bullet shape (round nose the worst) did a bit better with a double tap with mouse guns like the .32 and 25 maybe gaining like 4% better results but still under 50% I took his study to heart. put one good round in then move on negating recoil to an extent and lessening the benefit of high capacity. My little 25 tho? LOL using all 9 is probly prudent.
From both personal and professional experience, any decent .357 Magnum 125grn JHP, is far and away more effective as a defensive round than even the best 9 Minimal round of similar bullet weight and design.
It's no big secret 357 magnum ammo has been watered down because of the proliferation of small J-frame revolvers. Compare an old reloading manual with current manuals.
I wonder what would happen with the parallax if you put a ruler or something with a square bottom up there if the camera would fix it or bend the ruler or what would happen. Interesting ammo though. I'm curious what they would do in a snub nose. Maybe they would hold together better
Camera bends stuff. It's why if I do not center myself on screen, people accuse me of 'leaning back' when I shoot. Happens to be a GoPro, one might say I need upgrades, but I love how they are super reliable. They just run and run for an hour straight and never lose my footage.
For typical civilian self-defense, I don't think there's much wrong with using the fast energy dumping loads like that 9mm. FBI protocol was for law enforcement which wind up in situations often a bit different. Most citizen self-defense shooting are close range, face-to-face. Now, that said, certainly nothing wrong with a citizen picking an FBI approved round, but I'm saying for the typical person, I wouldn't worry overmuch about that minimum 12" scale.
I don't trust their ammo. I've had dangerous bullet set back with their ammo during normal cycling. My FFL seconds the...distrust based on his experience (he's a licensed firearm manufacturer and has contracts with local PD's). Maybe they're gotten better...
@GunSam yeah I shouldn't have put site at the end just been working on CustomWolfGrips & Revolver Customs hoping ready by time people to get Xmas gifts
Freedom is hit and miss. 45 acp has been perfect through 3k rounds. Their 38 special, every bullet is seated at a different level so thats a bit odd. Very poor quality on their 44 special too come to think of it.
Out of a 3" barrel, I think the .357 magnum round would've traveled at least 1400 fps, still way more powerful than that 9mm. Great comparison.
I'm a die-hard Remington UMC 125GR SJHP 357mag guy but this stuff just may be an acceptable option!
I like Remington .357 Mag because it's everywhere. If it's not HTP, it's UMC, if it's not those it's the old school "Express". I like how they don't screw with a good product and just rename it when necessary for sales.
@GunSam Same! Thank you Sam I really trust your opinions and testing and always refer to your videos to confirm whatever ammo I'm selecting.
Umc in 9mm is a good round also
That 357Mag velocity is NICE!
The .357 Mag did surprisingly well for budget ammo. I'm fine with it being kind of fragile as long as the fragments do more than just get deposited along the main wound path, the majority of the projectile gets past the 12" mark, and it expands meaningfully. This one works.
That 357 load is a little spicy! The 357 load also had explosive expansion in your gel tests. Too much expansion, a phrase we never heard about handgun ammo until fairly recently. Back in the day, it was usually a lack of expansion that everyone griped about. Things change.
Expansion and fragmentation is a nightmare for ER Dr's...something that no one cared about then either.
That 357 magnum performed better than I thought, especially when I heard you say 8” barrel.
Does any other viewer miss the bologna pack flying apart? I know the gel is a more visual way to show expansion, but that bologna flying everywhere was entertaining. Cheers!
20 doll hairs for 50 rounds is a helluva deal, as long as you buy enough to get the low cost shipping
Nice video. I hadn't really seen Freedom Munitions come up on my radar either, so this was especially interesting. Thank you.
great video you dah revolver man! really enjoyed your work!!
Glad you tested these. I have been looking at these recently. My 357 mag has a 6 inch barrel, but Taurus does make an 8 inch barrel 357 and several manufacturers of single action revolvers make 7.5 inch barrel variants.
I've used quite a bit of Freedom and LAX ammo. I too have noticed strange points of impact and larger than usual groups with their stuff. I've used their 9mm, .380, .357 and .38spl.
Good test, Sam! While I'm not especially impressed with either of these, neither are the worse ammo one could buy! The 9mm penetration wasn't great but should work ok as home defense as that's when shots are most likely going to be straight on. I'm also not impressed that the 357 seperated the jacket & core but, still the damage was there so it can't be scoffed at.
With this ammo being in 50 round boxes for the same price as 20 rounds of premium SD ammo, these are viable rounds for someone who is on a budget (or is just plain cheap!). They both seem shootable which is always a plus, especially the 357. I'm not likely to be switching anytime soon but this ammo isn't the worst one could buy!
Cheers,
jc
GS. That was really and interesting video and caliber comparison. Thanks for sharing and I always appreciate your comments on the ammos. Take care.
Hi gun Sam. Very good video. And 2 very nice pistol and revolver. . Good shooting as always. I've never owned a 9 mm. I might have to check on a 1911 in 9 mm. God bless.9😊
Good test Sam. 👍🇺🇲
Gun Sam. I would use this for self defense aginst 2 legged varmints. But would not carry aginst 4 legged varmints. For that I carry my 357 with hard cast hand loads. I've taken 3 deer so far. And get complete penetration. And they were very effective. 😊
Fast burn powder = less recoil , but more flash .
Really good test. For budget ammo the 357 won but I think both worked just fine.
I appreciate your 75 yard shooting. It helps with how the ammo performs. Glad you call your shots as we all miss but at least we know when we do it.
Good test I like those 357’s I wonder how they would do out of a short barrel 2”.
I almost exclusively buy freedom munitions. Happy to see it perform well! I shoot lots of 38/357 and they pretty much always have good prices. Good 9 mil too. Thanks for the video!
I like that 357 mag load as there are tons of cutting surfaces from the shrapnel pieces and base + the base still drove plenty deep
Thank for another great video!
Damn good. and thank the lord because I have alot of this ammo lmao
Those are two of my carry calibers. I'm always looking for a lower priced alternative ammunition. If I can find this X-DEF .357Magnum I will get it!
I'm perfectly fine with that .357 load as long as it is consistent.
Nice test Sam! FM makes ammo at really decent prices. You never know if budget ammo (or any ammo) is going to perform though. I just checked their site and they make the x-def in 158g for the 357 and 135g, and 147g for the 9 too. I bet there is a sweet spot to be found there.
Now that's what I expect 357 to do!
I always found Evan Marshall and Ed Sanows one shot stop records the most conclusive. If my memory serves me correctly the 357 magnum had the best record at 97%, 2nd was the 40 S&W at 93% followed by the 45acp, 38 spcl+P and the 9mm.
Never had a problem w/freedom ammo. Love this presentation but never saw the use of using wood. If I cant get a good sight picture of my shot, i'm not gonna shoot thru a door. Cops can do it, but they have immunity when they make mistakes. Keep up the good work; your my -go to- guy since the professor passed.
Hey Mate another great video and wanted to ask ya if you can shoot 40 S&W out of your 10 mm revolver?!?
B how bout the same out a 10mm auto?!?
Im a big fan of Freedom and LAX, but I have only used this stuff for range ammo. I had no idea, but not shocked that they have carry ammo. The .357 could be a great back up option for the always reliable and affordable Remington G&W UMC.
Thanks for your efforts with these.
Both look like viable defense rounds, but I would like to see them tested in shorter barrels of the type used most often for concealed carry. My 9mm carry guns have 3.5" barrels and my .357 Magnum carry gun has a 2.5" barrel.
Both rounds did okay but it looks like they may have been optimized for short barrels. I am looking forward to such testing. Long live the King 👑.357!
I just found your channel and like your testing methods. Could you possibly do a test of 40s&w, 10mm, 357 mag, and 44 mag all with buffalo bore hard cast. I enjoyed your last video, but i was curious how the 305 and 340 grain buffalo bore hardcast will do against a 10mm. I was also curious how the 40 stacks up against the 10 and 357. Sorry for the random request. Again, great content.
Looks like 9mm have the same problem as winchester silvertips in 1986. A lot of expansion but underpenetrated. Curious to see if the same design will penetrate better at 147 gr
Been wondering if the x-def bullets from X-treme bullets are any good. Very few videos with people testing them... The couple vids i did find the gel was pretty dark and hard to see in videos. 2:12
This video put Freedom on my radar ., so I checked out their website .
If this is representive of their quality , I'm going to have to stock with some of the less commonly seen at LGS calibers .
Thank you
Thanks firctesting these rounds Sam. I always wonderd how they really performed. ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇸🏁🇮🇱🇺🇦🔱🌻🏵️💮🌸🌼🏁🏹
I bought 10 boxes of freedom munitions x def during covid. I've had bullets fall right out of the casing many many times. Peppered all the powder in my Glock 43x and m&p shield. Not good ammo imo.
Do they make a 38spl +p? That bullets willingness to expand quickly might make it an excellent choice in 38spl.
Yes, they do
The make a 158 gr .38 Special that I am testing in my 2" snub soon. I don't think there's a lighter bullet weight in their .38 Special.
@GunSam they have a 125 grain load listed, although it's currently out of stock
Unfortunately it's an xtp bullet and doesn't appear to be a +p
Be careful with FM ammo. They are notorious for over pressure incidents
Once again 357 comes out ahead!...
I have the 9mm 115gr +p X-DEF.
I also have the 357 magnum 125gr X-DEF.
I use these 9mm 124+P's in my 3.2" EDC. I think the less velocity would be perfect. Now you have me thinking their 135 +Ps for the longer barrel would be best.
LOL.. I still have some old (half a box or so) Hydra shks for both 44 mag and 45 acp In .357 I still have a few boxes of Federal 125 grain HP which in 1996 had a 96% stop rate.... good enough for me and the girls I go out with. my 44 spl load is a handload of a 250 grain cast and coated SWC at around 850 fps Sooo...I have a couple of 32 autos including a PPK and (gasp) my little Beretta jetfire in 25 auto. (hey 8+1) For these mouse gun calibers I have always figured to just use hardball since penetration and reliable feeding are the main things. the other day I bought my girlfriend a Beretta Tomcat in .32. I got her a box of hardball and one of some zoot tacticool defense rounds. What I am looking at tho is a .32 hard cast flat point at 36 grain with some decent velocity Flat point is slightly better than round nose and more velocity is welcome If they feed reliably I might suggest she use those.. What do you think?
They seem like a solid contender, compared to the Remington green and white box or Winchester white box defensive ammunitions
These bullets perform like they were designed for a 38 Special. That said they would be good for stacking deep if you were going for quantity but I would never use them for carry.
If not for capacity the 357 magnum is still the cartridge to beat. The 357 magnum is the 30/06 of handgun cartridges. Capacity is misleading its a lot easier to justify 1 or 2 shots than multiple in a self defense shooting. There's one part of a use of force form that's scrutinized quite a bit by prosecutors is the number of shots fired.
I loved the playful comments after first .357 shot on target. A stereotype, but stereotypes are what they are because they have some bit of truth to them.
Oh yeah - .357 MAGNUM, baby!! 😃
SAM are you down to do some ammo swap for testing? I'd like to test the Magnum in water and have Fiocchi Defense Dynamics 125 gr u tested 142 & I just need like 8-12 rds of stuff etc water jug and accuracy I'm sure we both have some stuff the other could test
The black Rambo uses the X-DEF projectile 124 grain but it is loaded hotter.
I don't know about the 8" barrel but I do have a Ruger Blackhawk 357 with a 6" barrel
both might work real good in shorter barrels
On the .357 mag and stopping power you are not wrong on 'one should do it' In marshals excellent study 'Street Stoppers' Out of print and I had loaned mine out years ago but found one on Ebay... The 125 grain HP was king with 94-96% one shot stops when the center mass was hit. One of the better documented calibers with maybe a thousand documented shootings all told What is interesting tho is that he includes a table later in the book that documents 'double taps' and how effective they were Basically? they were pretty useless waste of time and ammo. they increased the stops by like 1% with the .357. most calibers the increase was minimal with maybe 2-3% better results. The worst calibers for power and bullet shape (round nose the worst) did a bit better with a double tap with mouse guns like the .32 and 25 maybe gaining like 4% better results but still under 50% I took his study to heart. put one good round in then move on negating recoil to an extent and lessening the benefit of high capacity. My little 25 tho? LOL using all 9 is probly prudent.
From both personal and professional experience, any decent .357 Magnum 125grn JHP, is far and away more effective as a defensive round than even the best 9 Minimal round of similar bullet weight and design.
It's no big secret 357 magnum ammo has been watered down because of the proliferation of small J-frame revolvers. Compare an old reloading manual with current manuals.
Sam would love to see 45 acp xdef
I wonder what would happen with the parallax if you put a ruler or something with a square bottom up there if the camera would fix it or bend the ruler or what would happen. Interesting ammo though. I'm curious what they would do in a snub nose. Maybe they would hold together better
Camera bends stuff. It's why if I do not center myself on screen, people accuse me of 'leaning back' when I shoot. Happens to be a GoPro, one might say I need upgrades, but I love how they are super reliable. They just run and run for an hour straight and never lose my footage.
For typical civilian self-defense, I don't think there's much wrong with using the fast energy dumping loads like that 9mm. FBI protocol was for law enforcement which wind up in situations often a bit different. Most citizen self-defense shooting are close range, face-to-face. Now, that said, certainly nothing wrong with a citizen picking an FBI approved round, but I'm saying for the typical person, I wouldn't worry overmuch about that minimum 12" scale.
I guess these will both perform better in shorter barrels.
I've got a 10" Dan Wesson. Imagine lugging it in the field.
i got 8 inch dan wesson 357 supermag😊
@@kc0lif I feel your pain.
I don't trust their ammo. I've had dangerous bullet set back with their ammo during normal cycling. My FFL seconds the...distrust based on his experience (he's a licensed firearm manufacturer and has contracts with local PD's). Maybe they're gotten better...
.327 Federal Magnum
How can we see the bullet when your camera is 5 ft away
huh?
@@GunSam Duh? You don't show a close up of bullets before you test
👍😊
Damn RUclips hid my comment wonder if it's in your spam folder.
I didn't know RUclips had a spam folder. I vaguely recall seeing the held for review tab though, probably what you mean.
@GunSam yeah I shouldn't have put site at the end just been working on CustomWolfGrips & Revolver Customs hoping ready by time people to get Xmas gifts
@GunSam yeah see if it's there. .357 will be good in 3"
DEF not the best.
lol
Great test on this ammo. Thanks for the video
Freedom is hit and miss. 45 acp has been perfect through 3k rounds. Their 38 special, every bullet is seated at a different level so thats a bit odd. Very poor quality on their 44 special too come to think of it.