Filmed Oct 5th 2024. In chronological order this was the first test of Freedom Munitions I did. At a later date I tested their 9mm and .357 Mag, then 9mm VS .357 Mag in shorter barrels, as well as their .380 ACP VS .38 Special. Some of those tests are released already, some are not.
That .357 SIG is performing wonderfully. Perfect. Though the 10mm overpenetrated and got no expansion with the MDF, holly hell that has to be the most massive wound channel I've ever seen not come from a .44 magnum
I've watched a lot of 10mm v 357sig videos, and still can't see any reason to change from my 357sig to 10mm. All the videos used different ammo, and I think 10mm has more hype than hurt. Interesting video
I don't think I would call 600fps of energy hype😂 If you want real 10 mil you gotta go to Underwood or Buffalo bore. That's watered down stuff Sam is using.
The 357 Sig 125gr HST is the pinnacle of SD performance. Out of a 5 inch barrel the 125gr HST gets a velocity around 1420 fps. This velocity and energy with the top quality HST bullet provides unmatched performance. Tests with other ammo brands are interesting but it ends there.
Good comparison, Sam! Both of these seem a bit underpowered and personally, I like a somewhat lighter, faster bullet in the 10mm, at least 180 knocking on the door of 1200 or so. But you get what you get with factory, so there ya go! The bullets kind of look like Berry's Hybrid. Performance was iffy for the 10mm, but then I usually don't trust heavy bullets that are loaded below what it should be. If that 200 were loaded up to 1200 or even 1250, then maybe. The .357 Sig always impresses. I wish I had gotten into this caliber many years ago but that ship has long sailed. One thing is certain, that 200 gr bullet smacks the steel with authority! Cheers, jc
Hi gun Sam. That 10 mm revolver is nice. I'll bet that 10 mm with hardcast. Bullet would be a deer smoking hand gun. And alot less recoil that 44 mag. As always good shooting. .been awhile since I got to watch you. AWSOME. God bless. Pennsylvania buddy Jeff 😊
It has 'perfect' ballistics and that's why I got this setup. About as much recoil as maybe a typical .45 ACP pistol, but energy that is typically around 650 ft lbs energy with better ammo. It has a lot of positives, but it's not super accurate for me at long range.
Had someone throw a legit smoke grenade at my spot less then 2 hours ago....hope it's not an Ambush for me tomorrow or training for a few weeks from now. Stay frosty everyone. Power grid. Water food batteries etc
They were the only ones with stock and kept me supplied during the Plandemic. Then the GF riots here in Minneapolis and the massive Marxists crime wave that followed. I really appreciate the Freedom Munitions biz for helping me and my family stay protected through absolute hell in Minnesota.
This may not have been the best ammunition for the 10mm Auto but I have been obsessing over a 10mm revolver since this channel planted the idea in my skull. I would make the plunge if I could get a six shot L frame, not because I don't like the N frame but because it would just be another range gun that I never carry. It should look like the Model 69, just chambered in a six shot 10mm. I can dream, can't I?👍❤💯
Another good test. 357 Sig wins the day! 10mm very disappointing . I thought the 357 Sig was doing well until your 75 yard shots. I know you can call your shots as good shooters can to that. A small thought, don't empower the negative comments on your videos. It's distracting from your knowledge. There will always be comments we don't agree with.... I've watched every video you have made and you "get it"!
Thanks for testing these rounds Sam. Youre just a very skilled and talented shooter to two two different bullets traveling level and near each ither to give the illusion its the same path of travel. Its a testament to your abilities. Thanks for all you do! ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇸🏁🇮🇱🇺🇦🌻💮🌼🌸🏴☠️🏹
Hi Sam, I've seen you consistently ring steel at 75 yards with the best .38 and 9mm loads, which also didn't do worse than today's loads in gel. I'd say these 10mm and .357 sig rounds get a no from me.
Neither of these are calibers that I have pistols for, but I still find it interesting. I know how effective .357SIG is supposed to be, but I never see it on sale anywhere in my areas. It is an expensive cartridge to shoot! I might be interested in it as a carry cartridge, if it were more accessible. Thanks for the information.
Hey Sam whats your thoughts on moon clips? Ive read they have differences one, thicker/more flimsy ect.. but what's your over thoughts. Honestly asking because I've been debating having one of my 357 machined for 9mm by tk customs . So I can shoot 9mm and 380
I broke all the moon clips that came with my Taurus 905 in a couple weeks. The ones for the S&W 610 are completely different, well made and easy to load and unload. Personally, I don't like moon clips because they can bend in a pocket which is not something a good speed loader has to deal with. The are great for winning competitions but bad for most people who carry a gun for defense.
Daaaayum! I was really stoked about the .357 Mag 125 rain ammo you tested, but now, I'm glad I didn't just snatch up all I could get! I'll definitely be looking for the future videos as always, but paying close attention to this X-Def stuff.
I was wondering whynthe Revolver. I know b/c it matched the test barrel length and overall length of the 357sig pistol. Wouldn't mind seeing from a full size semi auto, though.
I didn't "choose" a 200 gr over a 165 or 180 gr. I Chose to buy the ONE Freedom Munitions X-DEF choice in 10mm which is 200 gr, and then compare it to another caliber of X-DEF that they make.
I wonder if the large hollow point cavity just captures too much air in flight -- and that is random enough to create that inconsistency? 🤔 Maybe a bead/drop of caulk in there would help.
There's essentially a bubble of air around the point, similar to how a truck tailgate up, has faster air going over the trapped slower air in the truck bed, and because of this an open truck bed/tailgate up doesn't actually cause extra drag. Plus I have tested a lot of consistent hollow points.
The damage of the tumbling 10mm is a lot bigger. Damage from tumbling always look bigger. At least from the video. Makes me wonder why not more company's design bullets for tumbling. (Yes I knowTUI)
Xtreme Defense bullets also tumble if you watch them in slow motion, true slow motion (not in any of my videos). In theory tumbling is great, but I think even Fort Scott hasn't gotten it down to where it truly tumbles right away, they do tumble but after penetrating gel quite a bit. It's also hard to truly know how that correlates to a human being's body which is less distance and more dense than gel. Hollow points expand in gel or people and there's a ton of street data and recovered bullets to back up what's going on. I personally think tumbling bullets would be more difficult to make work reliably than a hollow point and it would take major police or military use with data in the real world to truly back up how effective they are. The testing I do with hollow points is so easy because we know what rounds are true manstoppers, and comparing other ammo to those results gives us a window into probable effectiveness. While it's not impossible that a round could be designed to tumble right away, that always leads to poor penetration. I personally think the tumbling thing is just more trouble than what it seems to have one that will be effective, reliably effective.
@@GunSam A good tumbling load is 38 Super Police what you already tested together with TUI. Yes we dont know how it really work in flesh and what the tracks in gel really mean. Also it looks like its not consistent in the reaction. You had one Super Police shot in the gel that had just a straight track but it ended backwards so it did tumble but didnt show any effect in gel. I have also seen this once with a regular 124gr fmj 9mm bullet and a high speed camera. Just a straight path totally penetrated the gel. So without a camera he wouldnt even have known. I dont understand why Fort Scott doesnt make their TUI just as regular fmj and cheaper. This maybe would make them more popular. Since the regular soldier carry ball round only in their pistols, do you know if there is some data about stopping threats with this? Limited to fmj because of law of war, tumbling bullets must be interesting for them.
Went to Academy Sports to see what they have in stock for the first time in over a year. I actually wanted to look at a 10mm or a 44 magnum. They had the one M&P 2.0 10mm marked up too high and no 44 magnums. They only had one 357 magnum. It was a S&W way overpriced. The rest were junk 9mms far overpriced and 22 and 22 magnum. It was disheartening. Their ammunition selection looked like a woke liberal set it up for what they thought everyone wanted. I did see some ignorant choices for 45 acps, but I wouldn't even pxxx on them. I guess I'm going to have to look for a small gun shop that will order what I want. The stupid booger picking punks that they had up there were completely useless as well. I really was looking forward to walk out of there with a 10mm or a 44 magnum. One kid, after I got him to look away from the computer didn't know what I was talking about, and then said he had seen someone with a Barrett at his local range in that caliber 1st hand. Sam, I was really looking forward to telling you I finally got a 10mm or a 44 magnum. Sorry, so long. I just had to get that off of my chest. Sadly, that was my first time going anywhere besides the hospital or my doctor since last November. It was really sad.
@timrobinson6573 I was injured at work and permanently disabled last November. I've really had a hermit like existence at home while my wife worked, my two daughters were at school, and my son stationed over in Japan. Two visits to the ER with one landing me in the ICU for 5 days, both dealing with septic shock from the infection brought on by the injury. I really wanted my first trip to a somewhat gun store to have the same type of stock that they had the last time I went in. It was depressing. It was rather sad. It was almost like a post George Floyd Covid 19 pandemic look in their firearm and ammunition section. Even their shotgun shell selection was abysmal. It also looked like a ghost town in the whole store, like a store just barely hanging on from bankruptcy.
@64samsky I was looking very specifically at a Performance Center 10mm with the vented barrel. Or a 44 magnum with a 4 in" barrel. I'm not a fan of the 40 cal or 357 Sig. Not that they are underpowered, but want more pop in my palm. I have 357 magnums for my wife and two daughters, a 460 magnum for my son, and a 500 magnum for myself. We have a few 45 ACPs, 380 ACPs, 22 mags, and 22lrs for my wife, son, and daughters. I won't buy a 9mm either, I don't want the neutered 10 (.40 cal), or 357 sig. I've shot several of them at the range that friends owned. They just didn't feel right. I have never owned a 44 magnum, and I really liked the idea of having a Performace Center 10mm as my 1st 10mm. Sam knows. I watch him because of his affinity for revolvers. The 10mm only because of brand and reviews, because I'm not all that big into semiautos. No personality.
@@iaintfraidofnowoke I'm a handloader, I load my 357Sig, .40, and 10mm to where the should be. My Glock 32c is ported, and I'm going to get my Glock 20 10mm ported as well.
Filmed Oct 5th 2024. In chronological order this was the first test of Freedom Munitions I did. At a later date I tested their 9mm and .357 Mag, then 9mm VS .357 Mag in shorter barrels, as well as their .380 ACP VS .38 Special. Some of those tests are released already, some are not.
Have you gotten any of Underwoods "new" 124gr XTP 357Sig yet?
357 SIG is like that employee who never calls out of work and gets every job done ahead of schedule.
Yet again, the 357 Sig for the win.
That .357 SIG is performing wonderfully. Perfect.
Though the 10mm overpenetrated and got no expansion with the MDF, holly hell that has to be the most massive wound channel I've ever seen not come from a .44 magnum
I've watched a lot of 10mm v 357sig videos, and still can't see any reason to change from my 357sig to 10mm. All the videos used different ammo, and I think 10mm has more hype than hurt. Interesting video
I don't think I would call 600fps of energy hype😂 If you want real 10 mil you gotta go to Underwood or Buffalo bore. That's watered down stuff Sam is using.
The 357 Sig 125gr HST is the pinnacle of SD performance. Out of a 5 inch barrel the 125gr HST gets a velocity around 1420 fps. This velocity and energy with the top quality HST bullet provides unmatched performance. Tests with other ammo brands are interesting but it ends there.
I agree 100%. The .357SIG 125gr HST has got to be the pinnacle of a SD/EDC cartridge. In every test I've seen, it always performs exceptionally well.
Also, the Hornady Critical Duty is a very good round.
@@64samsky The velocity of the 357 Sig and 357 Mag enable almost any HP bullet to perform very well!
10mm 200gr should be going 1200fps. Both should be going 100fps faster IMHO.
GS. Another good and informative video. Thanks for sharing and take care.
357 Sig is typical for most main line offerings & performed well. Disappointing results with 10 in denim. Thank you.
Awesome stuff. Going to be buying alot more of this ammo. Thanks for testing this.
I suggest your read my post before you do.
@@Paladin1873 What post?
@@corybrown8422 It's on this page. I put it up 13 hours ago and Gun Sam has pinned it so it may be near the top.
Good comparison, Sam! Both of these seem a bit underpowered and personally, I like a somewhat lighter, faster bullet in the 10mm, at least 180 knocking on the door of 1200 or so. But you get what you get with factory, so there ya go! The bullets kind of look like Berry's Hybrid.
Performance was iffy for the 10mm, but then I usually don't trust heavy bullets that are loaded below what it should be. If that 200 were loaded up to 1200 or even 1250, then maybe. The .357 Sig always impresses. I wish I had gotten into this caliber many years ago but that ship has long sailed. One thing is certain, that 200 gr bullet smacks the steel with authority!
Cheers,
jc
So many of these "other brands" is the reason why I would get into handloading.
Hi gun Sam. That 10 mm revolver is nice. I'll bet that 10 mm with hardcast. Bullet would be a deer smoking hand gun. And alot less recoil that 44 mag. As always good shooting. .been awhile since I got to watch you. AWSOME. God bless. Pennsylvania buddy Jeff 😊
It has 'perfect' ballistics and that's why I got this setup. About as much recoil as maybe a typical .45 ACP pistol, but energy that is typically around 650 ft lbs energy with better ammo. It has a lot of positives, but it's not super accurate for me at long range.
@@JeffreyCotle I have a JM stamped Marlin 1894 in 44 Magnum, that's why I have a 44 revolver. I carry a Glock 20 in my car for the boogeyman.
i can hit a saucer at 75 yards with the 6" version. requires a chest holster tho
"Nothing to see here."
There is for me. Thanks Sam, nice video. I've got alot of Freedom's stuff and have been wondering about the X-DEF.
Had someone throw a legit smoke grenade at my spot less then 2 hours ago....hope it's not an Ambush for me tomorrow or training for a few weeks from now. Stay frosty everyone. Power grid. Water food batteries etc
I just ordered this in 9mm and 45 acp.
They were the only ones with stock and kept me supplied during the Plandemic. Then the GF riots here in Minneapolis and the massive Marxists crime wave that followed. I really appreciate the Freedom Munitions biz for helping me and my family stay protected through absolute hell in Minnesota.
This may not have been the best ammunition for the 10mm Auto but I have been obsessing over a 10mm revolver since this channel planted the idea in my skull. I would make the plunge if I could get a six shot L frame, not because I don't like the N frame but because it would just be another range gun that I never carry. It should look like the Model 69, just chambered in a six shot 10mm. I can dream, can't I?👍❤💯
Everytime I think " i haven't seen a gun sam video in a while" one appears.
Another good test. 357 Sig wins the day! 10mm very disappointing . I thought the 357 Sig was doing well until your 75 yard shots. I know you can call your shots as good shooters can to that. A small thought, don't empower the negative comments on your videos. It's distracting from your knowledge. There will always be comments we don't agree with.... I've watched every video you have made and you "get it"!
Thanks for testing these rounds Sam. Youre just a very skilled and talented shooter to two two different bullets traveling level and near each ither to give the illusion its the same path of travel. Its a testament to your abilities. Thanks for all you do! ♠️🎩🎯🎱🇺🇸🏁🇮🇱🇺🇦🌻💮🌼🌸🏴☠️🏹
These are the Extreme projectiles that look and act a lot like Gold Dots.
Hi Sam, I've seen you consistently ring steel at 75 yards with the best .38 and 9mm loads, which also didn't do worse than today's loads in gel. I'd say these 10mm and .357 sig rounds get a no from me.
both good rounds.
Neither of these are calibers that I have pistols for, but I still find it interesting. I know how effective .357SIG is supposed to be, but I never see it on sale anywhere in my areas. It is an expensive cartridge to shoot! I might be interested in it as a carry cartridge, if it were more accessible. Thanks for the information.
lol, thinking in 3D is hard. Interesting comparison even though I don't have either of these calibers.
I used the X-DEF in 9mm HAD KICK To it
Hey Sam whats your thoughts on moon clips? Ive read they have differences one, thicker/more flimsy ect.. but what's your over thoughts.
Honestly asking because I've been debating having one of my 357 machined for 9mm by tk customs . So I can shoot 9mm and 380
I broke all the moon clips that came with my Taurus 905 in a couple weeks. The ones for the S&W 610 are completely different, well made and easy to load and unload. Personally, I don't like moon clips because they can bend in a pocket which is not something a good speed loader has to deal with. The are great for winning competitions but bad for most people who carry a gun for defense.
@@GunSam didn't think of it bending in the pocket or something....great insight. Thanks for the response and the videos
357 sig, best option for human sized issues!!!
Another weak 40 smith & wesson long disguised as 10mm lol!
Daaaayum! I was really stoked about the .357 Mag 125 rain ammo you tested, but now, I'm glad I didn't just snatch up all I could get!
I'll definitely be looking for the future videos as always, but paying close attention to this X-Def stuff.
I enjoyed the Video , but I have one Question why did you chose 200 grain 10mm instead of a 165 or maybe a 180 grain???
I was wondering whynthe Revolver. I know b/c it matched the test barrel length and overall length of the 357sig pistol. Wouldn't mind seeing from a full size semi auto, though.
I didn't "choose" a 200 gr over a 165 or 180 gr. I Chose to buy the ONE Freedom Munitions X-DEF choice in 10mm which is 200 gr, and then compare it to another caliber of X-DEF that they make.
I wonder if the large hollow point cavity just captures too much air in flight -- and that is random enough to create that inconsistency? 🤔 Maybe a bead/drop of caulk in there would help.
There's essentially a bubble of air around the point, similar to how a truck tailgate up, has faster air going over the trapped slower air in the truck bed, and because of this an open truck bed/tailgate up doesn't actually cause extra drag. Plus I have tested a lot of consistent hollow points.
looks like berrys super plate hollow point maybe?
Nope, wasn't a Berry's after seeing the details.
It’s the “extreme projectile” they act and look a lot like Gold Dots.
I'd like to see more velocity from 10mm. Both are great cartridges when loaded to proper velocities. Thanks, Sam. Good info. 👊😎🫡🇺🇲
The damage of the tumbling 10mm is a lot bigger. Damage from tumbling always look bigger. At least from the video. Makes me wonder why not more company's design bullets for tumbling. (Yes I knowTUI)
Xtreme Defense bullets also tumble if you watch them in slow motion, true slow motion (not in any of my videos). In theory tumbling is great, but I think even Fort Scott hasn't gotten it down to where it truly tumbles right away, they do tumble but after penetrating gel quite a bit. It's also hard to truly know how that correlates to a human being's body which is less distance and more dense than gel.
Hollow points expand in gel or people and there's a ton of street data and recovered bullets to back up what's going on. I personally think tumbling bullets would be more difficult to make work reliably than a hollow point and it would take major police or military use with data in the real world to truly back up how effective they are. The testing I do with hollow points is so easy because we know what rounds are true manstoppers, and comparing other ammo to those results gives us a window into probable effectiveness.
While it's not impossible that a round could be designed to tumble right away, that always leads to poor penetration. I personally think the tumbling thing is just more trouble than what it seems to have one that will be effective, reliably effective.
@@GunSam A good tumbling load is 38 Super Police what you already tested together with TUI. Yes we dont know how it really work in flesh and what the tracks in gel really mean. Also it looks like its not consistent in the reaction. You had one Super Police shot in the gel that had just a straight track but it ended backwards so it did tumble but didnt show any effect in gel. I have also seen this once with a regular 124gr fmj 9mm bullet and a high speed camera. Just a straight path totally penetrated the gel. So without a camera he wouldnt even have known. I dont understand why Fort Scott doesnt make their TUI just as regular fmj and cheaper. This maybe would make them more popular.
Since the regular soldier carry ball round only in their pistols, do you know if there is some data about stopping threats with this? Limited to fmj because of law of war, tumbling bullets must be interesting for them.
👍😊 the price 🤷♂️
Bump
Algorithm
Went to Academy Sports to see what they have in stock for the first time in over a year. I actually wanted to look at a 10mm or a 44 magnum. They had the one M&P 2.0 10mm marked up too high and no 44 magnums. They only had one 357 magnum. It was a S&W way overpriced. The rest were junk 9mms far overpriced and 22 and 22 magnum. It was disheartening. Their ammunition selection looked like a woke liberal set it up for what they thought everyone wanted. I did see some ignorant choices for 45 acps, but I wouldn't even pxxx on them. I guess I'm going to have to look for a small gun shop that will order what I want. The stupid booger picking punks that they had up there were completely useless as well. I really was looking forward to walk out of there with a 10mm or a 44 magnum. One kid, after I got him to look away from the computer didn't know what I was talking about, and then said he had seen someone with a Barrett at his local range in that caliber 1st hand. Sam, I was really looking forward to telling you I finally got a 10mm or a 44 magnum. Sorry, so long. I just had to get that off of my chest. Sadly, that was my first time going anywhere besides the hospital or my doctor since last November. It was really sad.
It's a lonely life
@timrobinson6573 I was injured at work and permanently disabled last November. I've really had a hermit like existence at home while my wife worked, my two daughters were at school, and my son stationed over in Japan. Two visits to the ER with one landing me in the ICU for 5 days, both dealing with septic shock from the infection brought on by the injury. I really wanted my first trip to a somewhat gun store to have the same type of stock that they had the last time I went in. It was depressing. It was rather sad. It was almost like a post George Floyd Covid 19 pandemic look in their firearm and ammunition section. Even their shotgun shell selection was abysmal. It also looked like a ghost town in the whole store, like a store just barely hanging on from bankruptcy.
@iaintfraidofnowoke Get a 40 caliber pistol that you can swap barrels with. Then you can get a 357Sig barrel for it, maybe even a 9mm.
@64samsky I was looking very specifically at a Performance Center 10mm with the vented barrel. Or a 44 magnum with a 4 in" barrel. I'm not a fan of the 40 cal or 357 Sig. Not that they are underpowered, but want more pop in my palm. I have 357 magnums for my wife and two daughters, a 460 magnum for my son, and a 500 magnum for myself. We have a few 45 ACPs, 380 ACPs, 22 mags, and 22lrs for my wife, son, and daughters. I won't buy a 9mm either, I don't want the neutered 10 (.40 cal), or 357 sig. I've shot several of them at the range that friends owned. They just didn't feel right. I have never owned a 44 magnum, and I really liked the idea of having a Performace Center 10mm as my 1st 10mm. Sam knows. I watch him because of his affinity for revolvers. The 10mm only because of brand and reviews, because I'm not all that big into semiautos. No personality.
@@iaintfraidofnowoke I'm a handloader, I load my 357Sig, .40, and 10mm to where the should be. My Glock 32c is ported, and I'm going to get my Glock 20 10mm ported as well.