Hi Everyone, after the next few months of Modern Meat Target testing found in my Paul Harrell Tribute Playlist, I'll be switching to water jug testing (unless I get more Comments) as all food is expensive & Water JUG testing actually is Scientifically Validated & Correlated by % to Organic Gel by experts. I'm going to test Old School .38 Loads swchp & wadcutters vs each other but what barrel length should I use? Assuming 2" but can do 2.2" 3" & currently Brand New Model can do 4.2" as well? MAGNUM Testing will likely do 3". Will also do .40 Snub 2.3" Punch vs .38+ Punch so maybe I'll use 2.2" for that to be more "Fair". I have lots of Charter Arms Content and 856UL content coming and maybe a 1 of a Kind RARE Old school Revolver too so please show support SUB Like and Comment engage and interact if you're into Handguns & Ballistics. Thanks for everything Sam you're one of the guys that got me into Revolvers & I'll send you some Custom Wolf Grips from RevolverCustoms for your Tauri soon! Plugged you in my Unboxing of a brand new Charter Model today. For 2" should I use the 856UL since that is a very common carry or a Classic Snub since matches the old school rounds?
I know you can buy bulk 1-gal plastic bottles from certain suppliers. Not sure what you do for sourcing those. Although I'm no fan of plastic everywhere in the environment (and in food, air, and human fat and bones), it's relatively inexpensive way to contain water for ballistic medium.
@exothermal.sprocket sourcing cheaper than ones I don't have to buy filled would be nice. I've got like 12 saved up I think. Each round should go between 3-5 ideally
@@DanTheWolfman Did some looking around online. Looks like these two companies you'll have to send out a quantity quote to find out the price per container: Kaufman Container & Tricorbraun. Couple more are showing their prices: Basco USA & The Cary Company. You want to buy 96+ containers you can get them for 60 cents per, with Basco. No idea about the caps or shipping costs on any of these.
Another very interesting test. Your channel is the best ballistic test channel at RUclips, I learned a lot of it. I carry a 4" Colt King Cobra as a sidearm for hunting. In the woods, it's loaded with .357 Speer 125 Gold Dot, and for home defense with .38 Hornady 110 FTX. Regards from Germany.
The only Hydrashoks I bother with are either the 130 grain or 158 grain in .357 Magnum. You really need that extra velocity with these bullets. Plus, the magnum is like bacon, it makes everything better. For the price of the ammo, there's simply better options available for both calibers in this test.
Love your testing. I've been reloading 45 years. Your testing helps me decide how fast to push my loads.I reload for five different caliber hand guns in both semi and revolver.
Around 15 years ago probably the best defensive ammo for a short barrel 9mm was the lighter Speer Gold Dots. Federal HST is definitely the way to go today.
Thanks for this test. I remember well the days when HydraShok was the "top of the line" in terms of self-defense rounds. My, how far we've come, including Federal with the HST line.
Don't get me wrong I love the administrative results and the grand thumb style videos also but this no nonsense, here's the facts and here's the performance standard of this channel
Good test, Sam! I didn't know about the Hydrashok's not working very well thru clothing when I switched to the Gold Dots but I'm glad I did! Mostly I carried the .45 Auto HS's and they always worked pretty well in my tests, but I never bothered with cloth. I honestly don't remember why I switched to the Gold Dots, probably because the HS's aren't available as components and the Gold Dots are. Being broke most of the time, I usually go for whatever I can get the best deal on. I didn't know anout the HS failures until I started watching some gel tests on u tube where there was clothing involved. Personally, I think both of these are fails and will never carry the HS again! Cheers, jc
I'm one of the people that likes the 75 yard shooting. 🙋. Always impressive to see someone making hits with pistols at that range. Hickok45 does his gong at 80 yards and people have always loved that, so idk why you get keyboard warriors whining, especially when you say literally every time that you're doing it for fun anyways.
I get a lot of weird comments. Like, how I am teaching people to murder from 75 yards, and there's no way to know it's self defense at that distance, even when I say it's for fun. I personally feel like the comments come from guys who group 4 feet at 7 yards, then watch my videos and get mad, then type.
@@GunSam I agree with the comments above. No reason to stop the 75 yard shooting. We were trained for 50 yard shots (for 10% of our final score). Five standing. Five prone. When we started training with state and local guys, they had only shot from 25 yards. I was able to get most of them able to hit out to 50 yards. When they asked when I would take a 50 yard shot, I answered every chance I got, because I knew I could hit and the bad guy probably couldn't.
Interesting trivia - The nearby Major City adopted G17 and 124 Hydra Shok in late '80s . And stuck with both ever since ! OK. The Glocks are now Gen 5 instead of Gen 2 .
Nice test and that is some low velocity 124 grain 9mm ammo. I would have expected 1070-1090 fps, not 1017 fps. The 38 Special load chronographed well and was really close to the published ballistics, so I'd say your chrono was accurate and correct. Hydra-Shok was supposed to be the answer to poor expansion from jacketed handgun bullets back in the 1980's. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Back then, the Federal 9BPLE, which was a 115 grain +P+ "law enforcement only" 9mm load was the most consistent performer. The Federal HST really was a leap forward and I would not trade the HST for any of the older loads nor many of the modern competitors to the HST.
In talking to a lot of older cops (guys who policed in the late '50s through the late '70s or later), many seemed to universally loathe the 9x19mm. These were guys who cut their teeth on .38 special with many going to .357 or even .44/.41 magnum. They would tell stories of failures to stop with multiple hits. Now, no, 9mm JHPs were not that great back then but neither were the other calibers. Of course when I'd ask where they hit the bad guy, usually they didn't know for sure. So, maybe they just shoot more carefully with their revolvers? It just seems to me that .38 +p and 9x19mm are awfully similar so I can't figure what the difference was back in the day other than placement (and of course attitude as some were TOLD to carry the 9mm and none of us like being told what to do).
My first autoloader was a Ruger P95 too! I still carry it in my EDC rotation depending on what I'm wearing. Most of the time I'm carrying my Taurus 856 "conceal carry" version with the 2 inch barrel and bobbed hammer.
What I have learned from your videos. The 9mm, in full sized pistols, almost matches modern day 357 Magnum 125 grain loads. I exclude old factory loads in 357 magnum that got 1400 fps like Buffalo Bore. If you carry a 38 special only carry Buffalo Bore ammo. If you carry 45 acp, just buy hard ball
Let ,me start off with I like the way you do your testing firstly no one else does the way you do it , i have always had that experience with the the federal hydra shok , and winchester black talon 17 years in law enforcement and that's what they issued us anyway ,which We didn't care for them .But to my big question in your opinion in 327 federal magnum , 9mm , 38 special , 380 acp ,and lastly .357 magnum ,which cartridge do you feel has preformed the best ,which brand has given the best velocity ,and reliable penetration plus expansion, or disruption .keep up the great videos
IDK why anyone would complain about your 75 yards practice? Probably because they can't do it? If you can make hits at 75 yards then you can make better, faster shots at 7.5 yards!
I mention that to people and I get the whole "Well, the FIB says..." and then I ask them if they can remember the last time a mass shooting occurred thas was perpetrated with something other than a rifle over the course of say, just 10 years? Then they start with the stammering and the stuttering, the clichés and the talking points because they aren't interested in doing anything at a range but fishing a target out to 3 to 5 yards for 30 minutes and then going home to take a nap. So be it...
That 9mm load is sl-o-o-o-ww. I'm sticking to that 124 gr +P Winchester (?) you tried a while back, near 1300 fps from the M&P. That's more like it for juiced bad guys.
Love the videos. Would love to see you test the “Federal Premium solid core. They 10mm, 45acp, 40cal and 9mm. Looks like good ammo but haven’t seen anything on it
There is a Few Look up Northwoods Testing as well. He does a lot of gel tests as well as Tools N Targets for sure and Gun Sam. There is a couple others but they are less reliable inho.
I used to use 185 grain and 230 grain plain lead Hydrashok loads in my 1911 .45 acp. At right about 1,000 fps, we got much better expansion, proportionally and much less travel. I have to wonder why they bothered to jacket these mid range loads, as they don't seem to have been helped at all by it having been done.
Good comparison and explanation as usual GS. Old school Hydrashok is not my favorite but HST is one of the best along with Gold Dot and Critical Duty. I am Not a big fan of Critical Defense though personally. Its too bad Federal does not sell any of their handgun bullets for reloading. (except this outdated Hydrashok bullet.)
I have this same dilemma. I have a P365X that I shoot great with, and a SW 642UC that I shoot OK with. I love that 642UC so much and it's GREAT to EDC, but I shoot so much better with the P365X.
J-Frame revolvers never shot well for me either. Always impacted low, terrible trigger press. The Ruger LCR eliminates those issues as it's trigger is lighter and it shoots everything point of aim.
I think magazine capacity, reliability, and kit weight are more important than the relatively minor differences between these two cartridges. Personally in self defense I’d rather start with a snubbie and fall back on a P365 if necessary, quite the reverse of normal thinking, but normal thinking is based on police being able to draw earlier than a civilian might want to. Also a police officer has immunity and has been toughened up by number encounters with bad guys (non shooting mainly) while civilians know they are facing potential bankruptcy and even prison time after even a self-defense shooting.
Very interesting test. If you have the time or the inclination go and get some of the latest version of the hydro shock. It's called hydro shock deep. I think in this test with the Deep you will see a much different result.
I think there are pistol shooting competitions done at 100 yards (or meters maybe?). I'm sure they use competition modified or special built pistols. Probably. So shooting at 75 yards is not at all unreasonable. It's just potentially questionable for self defense.
P.S. idea maybe when you get no expansion in IWBA style 4 layer Denim do another shot 4 layer tshirt for warm weather area people on a budget see if it's a total failure or just a partial failure. Just a thought I think I'm going to do 2 layer tshirt 2 layer Undershirt so I get rid of my nasty ones when I do Water Jug Testing.
* IF you place any credence in real world results * Lots of the classic HP loads that performed very well in the real world choke on 4 layers of deniem. I get it about IWBA setting a high goal to encourage newer generations of bullets . But the FBI's stack of fleece , t shirts , etc is probably more * representive * . ( Unless you actually are somewhere where two flannel shirts , long John's, and Carrhart jackets are standard wear 6 months of the year . )
@BlakeHouse-j3u yeah I mean I usually want barrier blind but going to test a lswchp that's proven. Not fbi tested it out of 3" so while I think would fail 2" I'm 4ld hoping it does well through my 2 layer tshirt 2 layer Undershirt
I've always thought the .38 Special should be renamed the ".38 Mediocre" because, even at it's absolute highest performance, there is nothing really special about it.
I personally do not think over 500 ft lbs energy like the top of the line hard cast ammo energy, is mediocre performance. Even the Underwood and Buffalo Bore 125 gr JHP ammo does over 1,200 FPS and 400 ft lbs in my 4" barrel. Again, I wouldn't call that mediocre. I would have agreed with you if you would have said it should be named .38 Mediocre based on how some companies load it so weak, but you said "absolute highest performance", and in that statement I disagree fully.
Seeing tests like this constantly remind me to be thankful for Underwood ammo. My 38 Special J-frame is loaded with Underwood ammo made when they used real Gold Dot bullets. These GD rounds get a velocity of 1150 fps out of a 2 inch barrel and needless to say perform better than Speer's GD "short barrel" stuff.
You can shoot a 9mm in a .38 no issues but for some reason .38SPL is loaded down....why is that? Is it just the case size or less powder??? And why????
Gun sam. That 9 mm paired with a Henry homesteader would make a very nice combo pistol rifle . They would keep 4 and 2 legged varmints away from the chicken coop.😅😅😅
Sam, the denim needs to be updated. This is more of sarcasm to the system and not to you in any way. The 70s andc80s saw perps wearing jean jackets and other materials like that over the torso, when these tests were initiated. Look what the perps typically wear now. Hoodies, stay puff marshmallow man jackets, wife beaters, other influencer tees, or just nothing. Another test that's not done. How about for head shots. How thick a piece of MDF would you need, and do brains have the same consistency as muscle and organ tissue? Harrell sure didn't do it. Maybe, just maybe, someone should update the testing.
I am from Michigan and I think the 4 layers of denim barely is the total amount of material worn between December and March. I would rather have a design that can defeat it, not clog and expand - and not need it, than the other way around.
@GunSam I know you're from Michigan. I was commenting on what the typical thug wears most of the year round. They surely aren't wearing 4 layers of denim. That's why I say the standard FBI testing should be updated. The criminals are wearing hoodies, thick bubble jackets, thick fake and real skin materials, and all sorts of denser materials than the typical denim of the 70s and 80s the FBI thought was typical of what a criminal would wear. I believe these newer materials plug a hollow point quicker than denim ever did. Also, the criminal back then wasn't as big or roided and drugged out and as full of rage and hate as they are now. It takes a lot more oomph these days to incapacitate a criminal so he or she doesn't get a shot off. Of course, I don't want you to have to go out and get thick hoodies, thick bubble jackets, thick skin jackets, and these denser clothing with thicker fillings to test these bullets against. I'm just saying that the test material is no longer relevant. I think it needs updating. It's harder now to get bullets to expand and not overpenetrate and incapacitate on the first shot. Of course where I live, if you are hit by a bullet that has overpenetrated, you probably shouldn't have been with your pal who went through the door or window first.
@@iaintfraidofnowoke I bet you can buy the same material that hoodies are made of from a fabric store possibly. The bubble coats would be difficult. Maybe a Good Will? would have both hoodies and Winter bubble coats? I dunno. T-shirts and denim is always easy to get from most anywhere. A combo of 2 layers of t shirts and 2 layers of denim like Tools and Targets does is a good compromise I would think if Hoodie material isnt easily available.
@PatriotPaulUSA It is more of a statement to address the change of clothing trends from the 1960s and 1970s to today's clothing trends of the common criminal that the FBI has clearly not addressed. This is the same FBI that has been continually screwing up when it counts over the last 50 years. They continually use outdated data, outdated methods, hire using DEI, side with the leftist in the polical circle in D.C., and would be better off gutted. I joke with Sam about his use of the same methods.
Federal Hydrashok usually has great expansion. However, the 9mm energy rating was quite low. The energy rating for .38 SPL +P appears to be at what is advertised on the box. I would use either or both with guns chambered in the above mentioned calibers. Great video.
Hi Everyone, after the next few months of Modern Meat Target testing found in my Paul Harrell Tribute Playlist, I'll be switching to water jug testing (unless I get more Comments) as all food is expensive & Water JUG testing actually is Scientifically Validated & Correlated by % to Organic Gel by experts. I'm going to test Old School .38 Loads swchp & wadcutters vs each other but what barrel length should I use? Assuming 2" but can do 2.2" 3" & currently Brand New Model can do 4.2" as well? MAGNUM Testing will likely do 3". Will also do .40 Snub 2.3" Punch vs .38+ Punch so maybe I'll use 2.2" for that to be more "Fair". I have lots of Charter Arms Content and 856UL content coming and maybe a 1 of a Kind RARE Old school Revolver too so please show support SUB Like and Comment engage and interact if you're into Handguns & Ballistics. Thanks for everything Sam you're one of the guys that got me into Revolvers & I'll send you some Custom Wolf Grips from RevolverCustoms for your Tauri soon! Plugged you in my Unboxing of a brand new Charter Model today. For 2" should I use the 856UL since that is a very common carry or a Classic Snub since matches the old school rounds?
I know you can buy bulk 1-gal plastic bottles from certain suppliers. Not sure what you do for sourcing those. Although I'm no fan of plastic everywhere in the environment (and in food, air, and human fat and bones), it's relatively inexpensive way to contain water for ballistic medium.
@exothermal.sprocket sourcing cheaper than ones I don't have to buy filled would be nice. I've got like 12 saved up I think. Each round should go between 3-5 ideally
@@DanTheWolfman Did some looking around online. Looks like these two companies you'll have to send out a quantity quote to find out the price per container: Kaufman Container & Tricorbraun.
Couple more are showing their prices: Basco USA & The Cary Company.
You want to buy 96+ containers you can get them for 60 cents per, with Basco. No idea about the caps or shipping costs on any of these.
@exothermal.sprocket $1-$1.25 already filled w water at krogers or Walmart so idk....maybe...thanks
@@DanTheWolfman Understandable. Haha
Another very interesting test. Your channel is the best ballistic test channel at RUclips, I learned a lot of it.
I carry a 4" Colt King Cobra as a sidearm for hunting.
In the woods, it's loaded with .357 Speer 125 Gold Dot, and for home defense with .38 Hornady 110 FTX.
Regards from Germany.
Filmed August 30th 2024
The only Hydrashoks I bother with are either the 130 grain or 158 grain in .357 Magnum. You really need that extra velocity with these bullets. Plus, the magnum is like bacon, it makes everything better. For the price of the ammo, there's simply better options available for both calibers in this test.
Love your testing. I've been reloading 45 years. Your testing helps me decide how fast to push my loads.I reload for five different caliber hand guns in both semi and revolver.
Around 15 years ago probably the best defensive ammo for a short barrel 9mm was the lighter Speer Gold Dots. Federal HST is definitely the way to go today.
If I recall, none of the local sporting goods stores carried that in my area. This was before I knew much about the internet.
Thanks for this test. I remember well the days when HydraShok was the "top of the line" in terms of self-defense rounds. My, how far we've come, including Federal with the HST line.
I remember the Good 'Ol Days of HydraShock being "All that and a bag of chips". My how times change.
Hi gun Sam. Awsome video. Very interesting about both cartridge. And good shooting as always. God bless. Jeff. 😊
Don't get me wrong I love the administrative results and the grand thumb style videos also but this no nonsense, here's the facts and here's the performance standard of this channel
Good test, Sam! I didn't know about the Hydrashok's not working very well thru clothing when I switched to the Gold Dots but I'm glad I did! Mostly I carried the .45 Auto HS's and they always worked pretty well in my tests, but I never bothered with cloth. I honestly don't remember why I switched to the Gold Dots, probably because the HS's aren't available as components and the Gold Dots are. Being broke most of the time, I usually go for whatever I can get the best deal on. I didn't know anout the HS failures until I started watching some gel tests on u tube where there was clothing involved. Personally, I think both of these are fails and will never carry the HS again!
Cheers,
jc
Same here. Video killed the radio star. Seen a few tests and switched to critical D and white box. Now experimenting with copper when I can.
Good timing. I'm curious about this one for sure.
I'm one of the people that likes the 75 yard shooting. 🙋. Always impressive to see someone making hits with pistols at that range. Hickok45 does his gong at 80 yards and people have always loved that, so idk why you get keyboard warriors whining, especially when you say literally every time that you're doing it for fun anyways.
I get a lot of weird comments. Like, how I am teaching people to murder from 75 yards, and there's no way to know it's self defense at that distance, even when I say it's for fun. I personally feel like the comments come from guys who group 4 feet at 7 yards, then watch my videos and get mad, then type.
@@GunSam I agree with the comments above. No reason to stop the 75 yard shooting. We were trained for 50 yard shots (for 10% of our final score). Five standing. Five prone. When we started training with state and local guys, they had only shot from 25 yards. I was able to get most of them able to hit out to 50 yards. When they asked when I would take a 50 yard shot, I answered every chance I got, because I knew I could hit and the bad guy probably couldn't.
GS. Thanks for sharing. Always good, interesting and informative videos. Take care.
Interesting trivia -
The nearby Major City adopted G17 and 124 Hydra Shok in late '80s . And stuck with both ever since !
OK. The Glocks are now Gen 5 instead of Gen 2 .
Nice test and that is some low velocity 124 grain 9mm ammo. I would have expected 1070-1090 fps, not 1017 fps. The 38 Special load chronographed well and was really close to the published ballistics, so I'd say your chrono was accurate and correct. Hydra-Shok was supposed to be the answer to poor expansion from jacketed handgun bullets back in the 1980's. Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't. Back then, the Federal 9BPLE, which was a 115 grain +P+ "law enforcement only" 9mm load was the most consistent performer. The Federal HST really was a leap forward and I would not trade the HST for any of the older loads nor many of the modern competitors to the HST.
Thanks, that was a good evaluation.
BRAVO me my snubbie and dragnet! good job.😎
In talking to a lot of older cops (guys who policed in the late '50s through the late '70s or later), many seemed to universally loathe the 9x19mm. These were guys who cut their teeth on .38 special with many going to .357 or even .44/.41 magnum. They would tell stories of failures to stop with multiple hits. Now, no, 9mm JHPs were not that great back then but neither were the other calibers. Of course when I'd ask where they hit the bad guy, usually they didn't know for sure. So, maybe they just shoot more carefully with their revolvers? It just seems to me that .38 +p and 9x19mm are awfully similar so I can't figure what the difference was back in the day other than placement (and of course attitude as some were TOLD to carry the 9mm and none of us like being told what to do).
I agree and like U said the bullet technology has gotten much better today. The hollowpoints just work better in both calibers today.
My first autoloader was a Ruger P95 too! I still carry it in my EDC rotation depending on what I'm wearing. Most of the time I'm carrying my Taurus 856 "conceal carry" version with the 2 inch barrel and bobbed hammer.
Shooting at 75 yards is not stupid, you’re just challenging yourself.
Just had this exact thing happen with my 9 fmj. If pistol dope ever becomes a thing, it's good knowledge.
Good test thank you for sharing
Love these tests…. I love .40 Vs 9mm tests and idk why but I want to see more 22 WMR Vs 380
.38 Special peanut butter jelly time!👍💪🙏
Hydra-Shok the Monkey time!
@@traumajock 🐵🐒😉👍
What I have learned from your videos. The 9mm, in full sized pistols, almost matches modern day 357 Magnum 125 grain loads. I exclude old factory loads in 357 magnum that got 1400 fps like Buffalo Bore. If you carry a 38 special only carry Buffalo Bore ammo. If you carry 45 acp, just buy hard ball
great video Sam
Let ,me start off with I like the way you do your testing firstly no one else does the way
you do it , i have always had that experience with the the federal hydra shok , and winchester black talon 17 years in law enforcement and that's what they issued us anyway ,which We didn't care for them .But to my big question in your opinion in 327 federal magnum , 9mm , 38 special , 380 acp ,and lastly .357 magnum ,which cartridge do you feel has preformed the best ,which brand has given the best velocity ,and reliable penetration plus expansion, or disruption .keep up the great videos
IDK why anyone would complain about your 75 yards practice? Probably because they can't do it? If you can make hits at 75 yards then you can make better, faster shots at 7.5 yards!
That's precisely why.
That 9 is identifying as a hot 380
I believe the 75 yard tests are valid for real world situations-Just think of it as training to stop an active shooter at distance
I mention that to people and I get the whole "Well, the FIB says..." and then I ask them if they can remember the last time a mass shooting occurred thas was perpetrated with something other than a rifle over the course of say, just 10 years? Then they start with the stammering and the stuttering, the clichés and the talking points because they aren't interested in doing anything at a range but fishing a target out to 3 to 5 yards for 30 minutes and then going home to take a nap. So be it...
Agreed, there are better options.
That 9mm load is sl-o-o-o-ww. I'm sticking to that 124 gr +P Winchester (?) you tried a while back, near 1300 fps from the M&P. That's more like it for juiced bad guys.
Thank you
Sam what's your favorite load for 38spl in snub nose revolver? Thanks
Critical Defense 110 gr+P
@@GunSam Thank you 😊
Love the videos. Would love to see you test the “Federal Premium solid core. They 10mm, 45acp, 40cal and 9mm. Looks like good ammo but haven’t seen anything on it
Yes you GunSam have the best Gun Chanel now that Paul is sadly gone but T.N.T is great as well n that’s Tools n targets y’all… he good too!!!!
There is a Few Look up Northwoods Testing as well. He does a lot of gel tests as well as Tools N Targets for sure and Gun Sam. There is a couple others but they are less reliable inho.
I used to use 185 grain and 230 grain plain lead Hydrashok loads in my 1911 .45 acp. At right about 1,000 fps, we got much better expansion, proportionally and much less travel. I have to wonder why they bothered to jacket these mid range loads, as they don't seem to have been helped at all by it having been done.
Good comparison and explanation as usual GS. Old school Hydrashok is not my favorite but HST is one of the best along with Gold Dot and Critical Duty. I am Not a big fan of Critical Defense though personally. Its too bad Federal does not sell any of their handgun bullets for reloading. (except this outdated Hydrashok bullet.)
I have this same dilemma. I have a P365X that I shoot great with, and a SW 642UC that I shoot OK with. I love that 642UC so much and it's GREAT to EDC, but I shoot so much better with the P365X.
J-Frame revolvers never shot well for me either. Always impacted low, terrible trigger press. The Ruger LCR eliminates those issues as it's trigger is lighter and it shoots everything point of aim.
I think magazine capacity, reliability, and kit weight are more important than the relatively minor differences between these two cartridges. Personally in self defense I’d rather start with a snubbie and fall back on a P365 if necessary, quite the reverse of normal thinking, but normal thinking is based on police being able to draw earlier than a civilian might want to. Also a police officer has immunity and has been toughened up by number encounters with bad guys (non shooting mainly) while civilians know they are facing potential bankruptcy and even prison time after even a self-defense shooting.
About as similar as 2 different calibers can be i.m.o. Thanks! Stay safe.
both are good.
So do the exact test now with hydroshock deep
Very interesting test. If you have the time or the inclination go and get some of the latest version of the hydro shock. It's called hydro shock deep. I think in this test with the Deep you will see a much different result.
I have tested most of the calibers in Hydrashok Deep already
I think there are pistol shooting competitions done at 100 yards (or meters maybe?). I'm sure they use competition modified or special built pistols. Probably. So shooting at 75 yards is not at all unreasonable. It's just potentially questionable for self defense.
Good stuff. I thought they did make the 9 in +P
They do
in your esteemed opinion, what is the best all around .38 special(not +P) round?
These loads show their old school tech. Today better bullets are available like Gold dots and HST
That 9mm velocity was so low. Wondering if they could have accidently put 135 grain Hydra-Shoks in that box instead of the 124 as labeled.
👍😊 from 2000 we have been on a fast pace of improvement and not .
P.S. idea maybe when you get no expansion in IWBA style 4 layer Denim do another shot 4 layer tshirt for warm weather area people on a budget see if it's a total failure or just a partial failure. Just a thought I think I'm going to do 2 layer tshirt 2 layer Undershirt so I get rid of my nasty ones when I do Water Jug Testing.
* IF you place any credence in real world results *
Lots of the classic HP loads that performed very well in the real world choke on 4 layers of deniem.
I get it about IWBA setting a high goal to encourage newer generations of bullets . But the FBI's stack of fleece , t shirts , etc is probably more * representive * .
( Unless you actually are somewhere where two flannel shirts , long John's, and Carrhart jackets are standard wear 6 months of the year . )
@BlakeHouse-j3u yeah I mean I usually want barrier blind but going to test a lswchp that's proven. Not fbi tested it out of 3" so while I think would fail 2" I'm 4ld hoping it does well through my 2 layer tshirt 2 layer Undershirt
What ammo would be best in the 9mm? Since this one did not do as well.for how it looks
Hornady critical duty 135 grain +P
@@AlexanderJay-p2b thank you
Thats definitely overrated and over priced ammo. Interesting test👍
I've always thought the .38 Special should be renamed the ".38 Mediocre" because, even at it's absolute highest performance, there is nothing really special about it.
I personally do not think over 500 ft lbs energy like the top of the line hard cast ammo energy, is mediocre performance. Even the Underwood and Buffalo Bore 125 gr JHP ammo does over 1,200 FPS and 400 ft lbs in my 4" barrel. Again, I wouldn't call that mediocre. I would have agreed with you if you would have said it should be named .38 Mediocre based on how some companies load it so weak, but you said "absolute highest performance", and in that statement I disagree fully.
Seeing tests like this constantly remind me to be thankful for Underwood ammo. My 38 Special J-frame is loaded with Underwood ammo made when they used real Gold Dot bullets. These GD rounds get a velocity of 1150 fps out of a 2 inch barrel and needless to say perform better than Speer's GD "short barrel" stuff.
Ive always noticed that Speer and Hornady always seem to load thier bullets to a lower velocity than others Like Underwood
You can shoot a 9mm in a .38 no issues but for some reason .38SPL is loaded down....why is that? Is it just the case size or less powder??? And why????
What modifications did you do to chamber and headspace 9mm in a .38 Spl cylinder?
@@blackhawk7r221 You cant do it or anything. Asking me for help is a waste of time talk to God about your weakness of mind.
Gun sam. That 9 mm paired with a Henry homesteader would make a very nice combo pistol rifle . They would keep 4 and 2 legged varmints away from the chicken coop.😅😅😅
PizzA
Trump 2020!!!!
Trump 2024!!!!
Bump
My 9 fmj tends to wander right at distance as well. Mental dope card, engage.
Sam, the denim needs to be updated. This is more of sarcasm to the system and not to you in any way. The 70s andc80s saw perps wearing jean jackets and other materials like that over the torso, when these tests were initiated. Look what the perps typically wear now. Hoodies, stay puff marshmallow man jackets, wife beaters, other influencer tees, or just nothing. Another test that's not done. How about for head shots. How thick a piece of MDF would you need, and do brains have the same consistency as muscle and organ tissue? Harrell sure didn't do it. Maybe, just maybe, someone should update the testing.
I am from Michigan and I think the 4 layers of denim barely is the total amount of material worn between December and March. I would rather have a design that can defeat it, not clog and expand - and not need it, than the other way around.
@GunSam I know you're from Michigan. I was commenting on what the typical thug wears most of the year round. They surely aren't wearing 4 layers of denim. That's why I say the standard FBI testing should be updated. The criminals are wearing hoodies, thick bubble jackets, thick fake and real skin materials, and all sorts of denser materials than the typical denim of the 70s and 80s the FBI thought was typical of what a criminal would wear. I believe these newer materials plug a hollow point quicker than denim ever did. Also, the criminal back then wasn't as big or roided and drugged out and as full of rage and hate as they are now. It takes a lot more oomph these days to incapacitate a criminal so he or she doesn't get a shot off. Of course, I don't want you to have to go out and get thick hoodies, thick bubble jackets, thick skin jackets, and these denser clothing with thicker fillings to test these bullets against. I'm just saying that the test material is no longer relevant. I think it needs updating. It's harder now to get bullets to expand and not overpenetrate and incapacitate on the first shot. Of course where I live, if you are hit by a bullet that has overpenetrated, you probably shouldn't have been with your pal who went through the door or window first.
@@iaintfraidofnowoke I bet you can buy the same material that hoodies are made of from a fabric store possibly. The bubble coats would be difficult. Maybe a Good Will? would have both hoodies and Winter bubble coats? I dunno. T-shirts and denim is always easy to get from most anywhere. A combo of 2 layers of t shirts and 2 layers of denim like Tools and Targets does is a good compromise I would think if Hoodie material isnt easily available.
@PatriotPaulUSA It is more of a statement to address the change of clothing trends from the 1960s and 1970s to today's clothing trends of the common criminal that the FBI has clearly not addressed. This is the same FBI that has been continually screwing up when it counts over the last 50 years. They continually use outdated data, outdated methods, hire using DEI, side with the leftist in the polical circle in D.C., and would be better off gutted. I joke with Sam about his use of the same methods.
Algorithm
38 always. Neva 9
Both are good, key is practice. Whatever you choose, practice and identify where you need to improve. Never stop getting better.
Try rapid fire
Federal Hydrashok usually has great expansion. However, the 9mm energy rating was quite low. The energy rating for .38 SPL +P appears to be at what is advertised on the box. I would use either or both with guns chambered in the above mentioned calibers. Great video.