The carriages have small lubrication ports in the middle between the two screws, and there are galleries to distribute the lubricant throughout the carriage, if the ports are exposed, it would save disassembly for lubrication, and possibly cleaning too.
You are correct Hiwin and other "high-end" carriages do have lube ports, however I find it near impossible to get EP grease into them. I guess if you were using a lube with a low viscosity it wouldn't be an issue. I personally have tested everything from sewing machine oil to lithium to EP2 and others. I find under normal use and in a ~60 degree C environment the EP2 is the best bet to ensure most of the lubrication stays where you need it most.
@@BuildItBasement we use a very sticky ISO68 oil on the machinery at work, but it's a little different - 15KW CNC machinery where the temps of the rails don't get much above room temp and the oil pumps squirt it in pretty hard at timed intervals. I was originally going to try some of that oil, but your mention of temperature makes me want to second guess that. Thanks!
The V1 doesn't use an optical sensor. It has a small switch similar to what is used in Klicky. I don't know if you need to do much with HiWin rails. When I installed by V1 I just used Mobilux EP2 (same as what is used in the video) and injected it into the lubrication port. (the holes in each end of the carriage) I have hundreds of hours on it and so far it has been fine. I do believe you should clean and start over with cheap rails though. Now I am going to try the Vitalii3D even though I have no issues with the V1.
Are you sure it uses a switch? I originally thought that as well but was told by ChaoticLab that it was an opti-switch that has a spring-loaded plate that actually breaks a light path. I didn't do additional research and took it at face value since it would make sense (as the unit will only work on 5v and fries at 24v). A normal switch wouldn't care what the voltage is as long as it didn't go over the electrical breakdown (arc) point. I *may* have a Vitalii3D unit in the Basement...
@@BuildItBasement V1 uses a black Omron switch. It could be an optical switch internally?? I am not certain. There are images of CNC tap version 1.0 that show the various surface mount resistors etc. (requiring 5v??) It looks just like a Logitech mouse switch to me. To me the largest difference between V1 and V2 is that V2 has a 'flag' and an optical sensor like the original Voron Tap. The Tap developers talked about how many times the optical sensor could be used, there is no mechanical wear. (they also specified MGN9) Input shaper results are supposed to be better with the Vitalli3D so I am going to try that at some point or get a Beacon.
Awesome. Hey let me know what you end up seeing. Only so much I can do in my spare time, so having more information is always better. As for the switch I agree, looked like a clicky mouse switch to me as well - that's the only reason it hit me a little sideways when you said it was mechanical. I had the conversation with them directly - I'll stand by what they said unless someone can prove otherwise. IMHO no one needs a Beacon. My mind works in layers and the foundation is the frame followed by the bed mount and bed. If you have a good bed mount and bed you really shouldn't need to have hundreds of mesh points. Start with a flat bed and do away with all the issues that are related. Besides, the mesh only helps the plastic stick to the bed - your bed-side surface will still have all the imperfections of the bed it was printed on. No matter how many points you have, unless your print on a raft: Bad bed = Bad print.
Well other than the CNC tap from Chaotic lab, the other CNC tap options are at least as expensive if not more expensive than Beacon. At $79 it is just a little more expensive than Chaotic lab Tap. I haven't seen Beacon doing QGL but I assume it does that quickly. It is lighter and the toolhead can be fixed to the x gantry in a sturdier way. Tap is heavy. Input shaper is worse with Tap than Beacon I assume because of weight and the rail. With Beacon there is no wear on PEI or little bits of plastic on the bed. All of the benefits of klicky without needing a dock and the added bonus of being very light. I do love my Tap and Klicky is very inexpensive and works very well. I just think Beacon is no more expensive than a fancy CNC tap and is just faster. I would hope that the future USB toolheads would include a place to plug in Beacon and maybe a nozzle cam. Maybe it even comes down in price at some point. I don't see any downsides of Beacon and the mesh looks cool. I guess I have tried (and been happy with) everything else so why not try Beacon lol.
I'm not anti-Beacon - I'm just a K I S S guy and Tap - as complicated as it may be - does simplify things. Tap, when properly built or manufactured provides three main functions. 1) It removes the need for a Z endstop. 2) It allows the user to probe the actual surface no matter the type (This includes: PEI, Textured PEI, Glass, G10, anything). 3) It adds a level of protection even if you have a poorly set z - hard to dig into a bed when using the Tap. The Beacon offers some benefits that I just don't find useful in a printer. I can already do a QGL in seconds with the Tap and I don't need a multi-hundred or thousand point mesh clogging up my config file. As for the mounting of the tool head, you have a very valid point. It hasn't impacted me, but I don't try to print at 20k+ or anything crazy. Honestly, I ran my first 2.4 for about a year or so with only a mesh when I manually did it. The original documentation called out that you don't need to do a bed mesh with every print. For me there are a few too many things in the minus and not enough in the plus to go to a Beacon. It's cool to see a device make so much data, but lets face it 90% of it is junk data that no one needs.
Had a question about the wiring of this on the Octopus v1.1 board. I have the probe on PG15 and voltage and ground on PB7 like the documentation states. However the probe is always showing a blue light when the Tap is raised or lowered. Any suggestions?
@BuildItBasement I switched the probe and signal wires but now it stays solid red. I thought that even before configuring mainsail the sensor would trip? As I mentioned above, I am following the Voron manual using the default probe wiring and pins. This is my second build but have switched from the inductive probe to tap. I'm stumped.
Check and double check those wires. Are you using CAN? Normally these types of issues can be caused when the ground wire and signal wire are swapped. I too use PG15 for the probe, I use 5V at the tool head - too many issues a while back with 24V use. Voltage and ground can come from anyplace as long as the voltage matches the requirements of your Tap - signal should just be signal. Instead of looking at the LED I would suggest checking what the MCU sees in real time via the console or GUI.
@BuildItBasement no can but I am using a formbot pcb. I used a meter to verify continuity. I'll try running direct and see if that resolves the issue. Thanks for the insight.
I haven't seen anyone else mention it, but my issue with V1 was the rear facing connector on the sensor. No issues with the rail but on my setup that wire caused collision issues and just didn't look clean. Other than that it worked OK but unfortunetaly I switched to the Vitali CNC tap before this became available. Nice to see they upgraded and fixed some of the issues.
I never had any issues with the harness provided by Chaotic. When I do my install video I'll make sure I try to show how my wires are routed - even if it doesn't exactly fit your use-case. Any company that actually takes end-user feedback and uses that to improve a product gets a thumbs-up from me.
Thank you for your video. I was very informative and a very good guide as to how to lubricate the MGN7. Could you please tell me the brand and kind of grease that you used? And, was that a special Syringe?
The syringe is a standard wide "needle" unit found here: amzn.to/47FVJbb These are usually used for lubrications and other craft things. The grease is Mobilux found here: amzn.to/3szs1pF Buy it once and you'll pretty have enough for your 3d printer(s) for life. If you want an easier solution: kb-3d.com/store/tools-equipment/497-linear-rail-carriage-lubrication-kit-mobilux-ep2-20ml-1645909620080.html No offense to KB-3D but when you buy it "ready to go" you'll end up spending 20x what you would just buying the lube and syringes.
@@manamp773 Thanks! This one was a little rough around the edges - I'm still working out some kinks in my new studio setup. Hopefully you're subscribed! (Tuning videos coming, Voron builds, more first looks and reviews - and hope to have some fun along the way!)
Thanks for the video! I'm ordered a Trident kit from formbot (hasn't arrived yet) and this cnc tap V2 looks like a great mod to have from the beginning, right?
This is up to you 100%. The biggest issue I can see is that the documentation will be fragmented some. The original build doesn't include the Tap, and when you get to certain points in the build you'll be omitting things or adding things. The next biggest issue will be software. Tap uses some slightly more advance macros to function properly, most of these are surrounded by the need to ensure that your nozzle temp isn't much beyond 150 degrees C, as not to hurt the printing surface. All those negatives being out there, I do still believe that if you're up for the additional research and work - you'll be better off starting off with a Tap. It will save you a decent amount of time in reworking hardware and software. Thanks for the question! Let me know if you have any others!
@@BuildItBasement thanks for the reply! I think I'll go Tap. Seems worth the effort. I'm sure I'll have questions during the build, so I'll be taking the offer ,😁
I thought the instruction said to not mess with the linear rail? I do agree with you that I think you should grease it, but when I installed my I thought that was what the instructions said. By the way , the Amazon price is 59 but it has a $10 discount! So its the same prices as at the labs store, but free shipping!
I mentioned that during the video - Chaotic does have a physical card that came with the version 1 that basically said "DO NOT TAKE APART". And the thought behind it was that folks would end up breaking the CNC Tap and once that happened, bad comments and floods of angry people destroy any hopes of further production. They took a safe approach and it was the right thing to do. You could slightly get to the back of the rail some on the V1 w/o removing the face - however you just cant do that with the new version. I also have no idea how people manage to get the belts properly secured without taking the front off. I shure as heck can't! Now to be clear on the V2, the tell you not to remove the "slider" from the rail. I never removed the "slider" from the rail, we exposed it enough to lube it. I would NEVER suggest removing the carriage / slider from the rail. I did follow instruction to first remove the PCB to protect it from the rest of the process.
If you go the route - I would suggest you heat up your lube of choice beforehand since pushing grease in those tiny holes will be difficult. It can be a little difficult to tell if you have a decent amount of lubrication in in the carriage, sliding it off a bit allows you to see what you're working with and really ensure a good coating. You MUST be careful, that's the downside.
No worries - Glad I could help! Out of all the manufactured parts that seem to have come up out of the ground, the CNC Tap is one of the best. I'll have more videos about the install and the tolerances soon.
You're too kind. I need to work out some kinks and figure out how this stuff all works! I never knew making a few videos about 3D printers would turn into a: Video production hobby, Lighting hobby, Sound hobby, Video Editing hobby.... The list goes on and on!
I have never tested the CNC Mellow. I do have a CNC from Vaitalii that I will be testing. I believe that there are a lot of people who buy CNC parts because they believe it will fix a problem. When it doesn't or does "fit" a problem they talk about the part and how it does or doesn't work. I will say that the CNC Taps should all work well as long as they are properly assembled and installed well. I will be comparing the ChaoticLab unit to the Vaitalii, soon. I believe they should be close to the same. The biggest differences are the MGN7/9 and the switch used. As for the Mellow - I assume it'll be similar to both the Chaotic and the Vaitalii. If I get a Mellow - I'll test that as well!
Don't worry the V1 is still sold and is solid. I don't have comparative numbers on how they compare for precision - but it's going to be like splitting hairs .0001 and .00095. I will say if the V1 is built to last 2-3k hours the V2 should outlast that by some fair amount!
Cheers - Join the club! We're all boneheads. A CNC Tap is way less work than a regular Tap or klicky or even an inductive probe, all things considered.
The carriages have small lubrication ports in the middle between the two screws, and there are galleries to distribute the lubricant throughout the carriage, if the ports are exposed, it would save disassembly for lubrication, and possibly cleaning too.
You are correct Hiwin and other "high-end" carriages do have lube ports, however I find it near impossible to get EP grease into them. I guess if you were using a lube with a low viscosity it wouldn't be an issue. I personally have tested everything from sewing machine oil to lithium to EP2 and others. I find under normal use and in a ~60 degree C environment the EP2 is the best bet to ensure most of the lubrication stays where you need it most.
@@BuildItBasementif you heat up the EP2 grease (maybe to 50C), would it flow better into the grease port?
Sure would, law of diminishing returns.
@@BuildItBasement we use a very sticky ISO68 oil on the machinery at work, but it's a little different - 15KW CNC machinery where the temps of the rails don't get much above room temp and the oil pumps squirt it in pretty hard at timed intervals. I was originally going to try some of that oil, but your mention of temperature makes me want to second guess that.
Thanks!
No worries, if you do try something different let me know. We're all here to learn.
The V1 doesn't use an optical sensor. It has a small switch similar to what is used in Klicky. I don't know if you need to do much with HiWin rails. When I installed by V1 I just used Mobilux EP2 (same as what is used in the video) and injected it into the lubrication port. (the holes in each end of the carriage) I have hundreds of hours on it and so far it has been fine. I do believe you should clean and start over with cheap rails though. Now I am going to try the Vitalii3D even though I have no issues with the V1.
Are you sure it uses a switch? I originally thought that as well but was told by ChaoticLab that it was an opti-switch that has a spring-loaded plate that actually breaks a light path. I didn't do additional research and took it at face value since it would make sense (as the unit will only work on 5v and fries at 24v). A normal switch wouldn't care what the voltage is as long as it didn't go over the electrical breakdown (arc) point. I *may* have a Vitalii3D unit in the Basement...
@@BuildItBasement V1 uses a black Omron switch. It could be an optical switch internally?? I am not certain. There are images of CNC tap version 1.0 that show the various surface mount resistors etc. (requiring 5v??) It looks just like a Logitech mouse switch to me.
To me the largest difference between V1 and V2 is that V2 has a 'flag' and an optical sensor like the original Voron Tap. The Tap developers talked about how many times the optical sensor could be used, there is no mechanical wear. (they also specified MGN9)
Input shaper results are supposed to be better with the Vitalli3D so I am going to try that at some point or get a Beacon.
Awesome. Hey let me know what you end up seeing. Only so much I can do in my spare time, so having more information is always better. As for the switch I agree, looked like a clicky mouse switch to me as well - that's the only reason it hit me a little sideways when you said it was mechanical. I had the conversation with them directly - I'll stand by what they said unless someone can prove otherwise. IMHO no one needs a Beacon. My mind works in layers and the foundation is the frame followed by the bed mount and bed. If you have a good bed mount and bed you really shouldn't need to have hundreds of mesh points. Start with a flat bed and do away with all the issues that are related. Besides, the mesh only helps the plastic stick to the bed - your bed-side surface will still have all the imperfections of the bed it was printed on. No matter how many points you have, unless your print on a raft: Bad bed = Bad print.
Well other than the CNC tap from Chaotic lab, the other CNC tap options are at least as expensive if not more expensive than Beacon. At $79 it is just a little more expensive than Chaotic lab Tap. I haven't seen Beacon doing QGL but I assume it does that quickly. It is lighter and the toolhead can be fixed to the x gantry in a sturdier way. Tap is heavy. Input shaper is worse with Tap than Beacon I assume because of weight and the rail. With Beacon there is no wear on PEI or little bits of plastic on the bed. All of the benefits of klicky without needing a dock and the added bonus of being very light. I do love my Tap and Klicky is very inexpensive and works very well. I just think Beacon is no more expensive than a fancy CNC tap and is just faster. I would hope that the future USB toolheads would include a place to plug in Beacon and maybe a nozzle cam. Maybe it even comes down in price at some point. I don't see any downsides of Beacon and the mesh looks cool. I guess I have tried (and been happy with) everything else so why not try Beacon lol.
I'm not anti-Beacon - I'm just a K I S S guy and Tap - as complicated as it may be - does simplify things. Tap, when properly built or manufactured provides three main functions. 1) It removes the need for a Z endstop. 2) It allows the user to probe the actual surface no matter the type (This includes: PEI, Textured PEI, Glass, G10, anything). 3) It adds a level of protection even if you have a poorly set z - hard to dig into a bed when using the Tap. The Beacon offers some benefits that I just don't find useful in a printer. I can already do a QGL in seconds with the Tap and I don't need a multi-hundred or thousand point mesh clogging up my config file. As for the mounting of the tool head, you have a very valid point. It hasn't impacted me, but I don't try to print at 20k+ or anything crazy. Honestly, I ran my first 2.4 for about a year or so with only a mesh when I manually did it. The original documentation called out that you don't need to do a bed mesh with every print. For me there are a few too many things in the minus and not enough in the plus to go to a Beacon. It's cool to see a device make so much data, but lets face it 90% of it is junk data that no one needs.
Had a question about the wiring of this on the Octopus v1.1 board. I have the probe on PG15 and voltage and ground on PB7 like the documentation states. However the probe is always showing a blue light when the Tap is raised or lowered. Any suggestions?
Check your wiring - Sounds like you have your signal wire crossed. Confirm via the diagram for your Tap. Hope that's it! Let me know.
@BuildItBasement I switched the probe and signal wires but now it stays solid red. I thought that even before configuring mainsail the sensor would trip? As I mentioned above, I am following the Voron manual using the default probe wiring and pins. This is my second build but have switched from the inductive probe to tap. I'm stumped.
Check and double check those wires. Are you using CAN? Normally these types of issues can be caused when the ground wire and signal wire are swapped. I too use PG15 for the probe, I use 5V at the tool head - too many issues a while back with 24V use. Voltage and ground can come from anyplace as long as the voltage matches the requirements of your Tap - signal should just be signal. Instead of looking at the LED I would suggest checking what the MCU sees in real time via the console or GUI.
@BuildItBasement no can but I am using a formbot pcb. I used a meter to verify continuity. I'll try running direct and see if that resolves the issue. Thanks for the insight.
I haven't seen anyone else mention it, but my issue with V1 was the rear facing connector on the sensor.
No issues with the rail but on my setup that wire caused collision issues and just didn't look clean.
Other than that it worked OK but unfortunetaly I switched to the Vitali CNC tap before this became available. Nice to see they upgraded and fixed some of the issues.
I never had any issues with the harness provided by Chaotic. When I do my install video I'll make sure I try to show how my wires are routed - even if it doesn't exactly fit your use-case. Any company that actually takes end-user feedback and uses that to improve a product gets a thumbs-up from me.
Thank you for your video. I was very informative and a very good guide as to how to lubricate the MGN7.
Could you please tell me the brand and kind of grease that you used? And, was that a special Syringe?
The syringe is a standard wide "needle" unit found here: amzn.to/47FVJbb These are usually used for lubrications and other craft things. The grease is Mobilux found here: amzn.to/3szs1pF Buy it once and you'll pretty have enough for your 3d printer(s) for life. If you want an easier solution: kb-3d.com/store/tools-equipment/497-linear-rail-carriage-lubrication-kit-mobilux-ep2-20ml-1645909620080.html No offense to KB-3D but when you buy it "ready to go" you'll end up spending 20x what you would just buying the lube and syringes.
@@BuildItBasement Thank you very much. Please keep making great videos
@@manamp773 Thanks! This one was a little rough around the edges - I'm still working out some kinks in my new studio setup. Hopefully you're subscribed! (Tuning videos coming, Voron builds, more first looks and reviews - and hope to have some fun along the way!)
Thanks for the video! I'm ordered a Trident kit from formbot (hasn't arrived yet) and this cnc tap V2 looks like a great mod to have from the beginning, right?
This is up to you 100%. The biggest issue I can see is that the documentation will be fragmented some. The original build doesn't include the Tap, and when you get to certain points in the build you'll be omitting things or adding things. The next biggest issue will be software. Tap uses some slightly more advance macros to function properly, most of these are surrounded by the need to ensure that your nozzle temp isn't much beyond 150 degrees C, as not to hurt the printing surface. All those negatives being out there, I do still believe that if you're up for the additional research and work - you'll be better off starting off with a Tap. It will save you a decent amount of time in reworking hardware and software. Thanks for the question! Let me know if you have any others!
@@BuildItBasement thanks for the reply! I think I'll go Tap. Seems worth the effort. I'm sure I'll have questions during the build, so I'll be taking the offer ,😁
I thought the instruction said to not mess with the linear rail? I do agree with you that I think you should grease it, but when I installed my I thought that was what the instructions said. By the way , the Amazon price is 59 but it has a $10 discount! So its the same prices as at the labs store, but free shipping!
I mentioned that during the video - Chaotic does have a physical card that came with the version 1 that basically said "DO NOT TAKE APART". And the thought behind it was that folks would end up breaking the CNC Tap and once that happened, bad comments and floods of angry people destroy any hopes of further production. They took a safe approach and it was the right thing to do. You could slightly get to the back of the rail some on the V1 w/o removing the face - however you just cant do that with the new version. I also have no idea how people manage to get the belts properly secured without taking the front off. I shure as heck can't!
Now to be clear on the V2, the tell you not to remove the "slider" from the rail. I never removed the "slider" from the rail, we exposed it enough to lube it. I would NEVER suggest removing the carriage / slider from the rail. I did follow instruction to first remove the PCB to protect it from the rest of the process.
Why not fill the grease holes on the linear rail?
If you go the route - I would suggest you heat up your lube of choice beforehand since pushing grease in those tiny holes will be difficult. It can be a little difficult to tell if you have a decent amount of lubrication in in the carriage, sliding it off a bit allows you to see what you're working with and really ensure a good coating. You MUST be careful, that's the downside.
Appreciate the review on this.
No worries - Glad I could help! Out of all the manufactured parts that seem to have come up out of the ground, the CNC Tap is one of the best. I'll have more videos about the install and the tolerances soon.
Loving the studio, great work.
You're too kind. I need to work out some kinks and figure out how this stuff all works! I never knew making a few videos about 3D printers would turn into a: Video production hobby, Lighting hobby, Sound hobby, Video Editing hobby.... The list goes on and on!
@@BuildItBasementDon't let the success go to your head!
Hello, which is the best TAP, this CHAOTICLAB vs TAP CNC Mellow? we hear everything and its opposite on the internet about this.
Thanks everyone!
I have never tested the CNC Mellow. I do have a CNC from Vaitalii that I will be testing. I believe that there are a lot of people who buy CNC parts because they believe it will fix a problem. When it doesn't or does "fit" a problem they talk about the part and how it does or doesn't work. I will say that the CNC Taps should all work well as long as they are properly assembled and installed well. I will be comparing the ChaoticLab unit to the Vaitalii, soon. I believe they should be close to the same. The biggest differences are the MGN7/9 and the switch used. As for the Mellow - I assume it'll be similar to both the Chaotic and the Vaitalii. If I get a Mellow - I'll test that as well!
Thanks you!!!!!!
Bienvenu
I wish I could have this instead of my printed tap 😢
Cost wise it's almost a wash if you're sourcing parts! I would say buy one when you can, upgrade your machine and keep your old Tap as a spare!
V2! Wtf just installed my v1
Don't worry the V1 is still sold and is solid. I don't have comparative numbers on how they compare for precision - but it's going to be like splitting hairs .0001 and .00095. I will say if the V1 is built to last 2-3k hours the V2 should outlast that by some fair amount!
very dope but too much work me, im a bonehead
Cheers - Join the club! We're all boneheads. A CNC Tap is way less work than a regular Tap or klicky or even an inductive probe, all things considered.