Who Owns The Lord of the Rings?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- 🔵 𝗦𝘂𝗽𝗽𝗼𝗿𝘁 𝗣𝗲𝗻𝘁𝗲𝘅 𝗼𝗻 𝗣𝗮𝘁𝗿𝗲𝗼𝗻 𝗳𝗼𝗿 𝗯𝗼𝗻𝘂𝘀 𝘃𝗶𝗱𝗲𝗼𝘀 𝗮𝗻𝗱 𝗺𝗼𝗿𝗲: / pentexproductions 🔵
Who owns the Lord of the Rings? Amazon with their Rings of Power? Peter Jackson with the Warner Bros LOTR trilogy? The Tolkien Estate? What about LOTR games like Gollum and Return to Moria? LOTR board games like War of the Ring? Will there be a Silmarillion movie? What’s all this about the Embracer Group?
Well, the answer to all this is complicated.
So come with me on an adventure into the wild world of film rights, licencing agreements, and lots and lots of legal challenges as the War for the Rights to The Lord of the Rings carries ever on and on…..
00:00 - Concerning Hobbits - JRR Tolkien, HarperCollins, and United Artists
02:13 - A Journey in the Dark - Saul Zaentz, Ralph Bakshi and Rankin/Bass
05:03 - The Ring Goes South - Peter Jackson, Miramax and New Line Cinema
07:06 - The Gathering of the Clouds - The Hobbit, Warner Brothers, and the LOTR game lawsuit
10:05 - A Long-Expected Party - Amazon and The Rings of Power
12:02 - Ever on and on - Embracer Group and the status quo
Pentex’s Lord of the Rings video essays playlist: • Lord of the Rings vide...
The Scouting of the Shire (How the Hobbiton Movie Set was Built): • The Scouting of the Sh...
The Russian Lord of the Rings Movie is Weirder Than You Think: • The Russian Lord of th...
The Russian Hobbit Movie is Weirder Than You Think: • The Russian Hobbit Mov...
Follow me on Twitter: PentexP
MUSIC
Early Avril, Unicorn Heads, RUclips Music Library
Icelandic Arpeggios, DivKid, RUclips Music Library
“Tranquil Fields” by Alexander Nakarada (www.serpentsoundstudios.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
"Half Mystery" Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
“Straight” www.bensound.com/free-music-f...
Rolling Hills, Sir Cubsworth, RUclips Music Library
SOURCES (Video)
Lindsay Ellis, The Battle of the Five Studios: • The Hobbit: Battle of ...
Folding Ideas, A Exhaustive History of Ralph Bakshi’s Lord of the Rings: • An Exhaustive History ...
Shadowman, Evolution of the Lord of the Rings Games (1982-2019): • EVOLUTION OF LORD OF T...
John Boorman’s LOTR screenplay: / john_boormans_infamous...
SOURCES (Research)
Overviews
www.middleearth.com/history.html
www.smh.com.au/entertainment/...
Rankin/Bass and Bakshi:
www.nytimes.com/1977/11/27/ar...
www.nytimes.com/1978/11/08/ar...
LOTR public domain:
law.marquette.edu/facultyblog...
Tolkien Estate vs New Line and historical context:
www.theonering.net/torwp/2008/...
www.theguardian.com/books/200...
Tolkien vs New Line: variety.com/2008/biz/features...
Hobbit drama:
www.wsj.com/articles/SB107663...
Warner Bros vs Tolkien Estate (gaming rights): www.hollywoodreporter.com/bus...
www.nytimes.com/2017/07/03/mo...
www.hollywoodreporter.com/bus...
LOTR rights sale by Saul Zaentz Company
variety.com/2022/film/news/lo...
variety.com/2022/film/news/lo...
Amazon:
deadline.com/2017/11/amazon-t...
www.businessinsider.com/amazo...
Embracer Group:
www.polygon.com/23311153/the-...
embracer.com/release/embracer... 
Кино
If you're the kind of person who found this interesting, then you'll also like my video about how Hobbiton became a real place: ruclips.net/video/_4exEKAbeSg/видео.html
Please after the shows ends, make it into a movie/two movies and cut out Galadriel from this series.
Once upon a time, there lived a kindly old professor who wanted to write a mythology for modern times. And when he died, all the dark powers of the world descended upon his corpse and, driven by greed and hungry for profit, they fought over his legacy to get as big a piece of his life's work as possible. And thus his noble dream died in the dark, in a world consumed by its own lack of respect for anything but money. Will good ever prevail? We can only hope.
JRR Tolkien himself sold the film rights while he was alive, in the 1960s. He sold it for money. So don't go making Tolkien into some anti-capitalist idealist.
@@TheDanEdwards I didn't say that did I? That's just what you read into it. Don't make me your straw man.
I mean any adaptation of Tokiekns work is for profit even Jackson's films
Both Amazons rings of power team and Jackson's teams are fans and love Tolkien
Things can change that's the nature of adaptations but however due to rights Amazon are limited with the works of the second age
@@andrewperkin7192 I strongly disagree that the production team behind Rings of Power are fans of Tolkien in any way, shape or form. They are actively antithetical to the themes and beliefs of the books, which Jackson and his crew adhered to in the original trilogy.
@@oscarstainton Rings of Power is mediocre and spits on the lore? Sure. But the Jackson trilogy, brilliant as those movies are (I still cry like a baby at ROTK), didn't adhere to the spirit of the book entirely either. The violent battle scenes would've emotionally destroyed Tolkien, Gimli has been turned into a comic buffon, the Scouring of the Shire (possibly the most important part of the entire book) is gone, and Faramir is a jerk.
After the Rings of Power I don't think anyone other than Tolkien Estate should have the rights to LOTR.
But... Tolkien Estate themselves directly sold those rights to Amazon.
NO, they should be public domain from the start. Books shouldnt be held as copyrightable after author was dead for 40+ years. Let them make what ever shitshow they call as "adaptation", but at least it will not case those stupid fandom despites about "cannon" and catering of certain groups to rewrite or destroy Tolkien's legacy.
I have mixed feelings. But you cant stop stupid. So let people have their fun, amazon deserves the derision for their half arsed tv series that doesn't deserve to call itself lord of the rings.
Honestly, this was so good that I had trouble following the story, which is plenty confusing. Your melding of your script with bits from the movie was really super well done. I don't know why this doesn't have millions of views, you're at 21,908 as I type this; I wouldn't be surprised to stumble over this in a year or two and find you've gathered millions since. Really well done.
Criminally underrated video & youtube channel!
Tell your friends!
These video essays are brilliant. Thanks for your work.
I was wondering how Amazon's Rings of Power was able to include any scenes from the Silmarillion. I mean yes it was literally just a few minutes at the beginning of the first episode but surely even that would constitute a breach of copyright. Did they obtain special permission from the Tolkein estate to include the scenes in Valinor?
I believe they have an arrangement with the Estate to let them either use specific bits like that, or at least ensure anything they do include doesn't directly contradict continuity from the other works.
@@PentexProductions I am familiar with the agreement, although others claim no such agreement exists but I know it does exist. What baffles me with the TROP show is they have in fact directly contradicted the lore and continuity from the other works. I'm just waiting to see how many lawsuits spring up after this show finishes airing the first season.
Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your views, American copyright law, unlike that in some European countries, doesn't include "moral rights" for the author. I quote: "The moral rights regime differs greatly between countries, but typically includes the right to be identified as the author of the work and *the right to object to any distortion or mutilation of the work which would be prejudicial to their honor or reputation* (Article 6bis, Berne Convention). In many countries, the moral rights of an author are perpetual." [See Authors' Rights in Wikipedia.]
@@steve-oh4342 They have the right to make TV-series of LotR and the Hobbit. But they are of course free to make up anything outside those stories as long as it is original content.
They can basically create their own 'first age' and clam that is canon for their TV-series universe...
@@bb1111116 It's glorified fanfiction and I cannot believe Amazon spend $4B on it.
Really interesting video which no doubt required a lot of research (as can be seen from the long list of sources listed in the video description).
Thank you, my friend.
Wishing you a great rest of the weekend.
Thank you for the kind words, and for watching. Glad you found this as interesting as I did!
Your videos (I mostly watched the LOTR ones) are amazing. super well researched, explained, entertaining... I also loved the shire video and the villain (Saruman) video
It is also worth noting that Amazon owns MGM, and therefore the distribution rights to films based on the hobbit.
I have no idea what this quick talking dude said, but the visuals were comical and I loved it. Thumbs up.
Huge LOTR fan here since '77. Great job! I had some missing pieces yet no longer. I haven't laughed out loud in days, thanks for your humour!
Thanks! I wanted to make this because it was hard to find the full story outlined anywhere. Glad you enjoyed it!
no offence. but damn, you old. i respect that.
,-'""`-,
,' `.
/ _,,,_ \
/ ,' | `\/\\
/ /,--' `--. `
| / ___\_
| | / ______|
| | | |_' \'|
\ ,' ( _) -`|
'--- \ '-.-- /
______/`--'--<
| |`-. ,;/``--._
| |-. _/// ,'`\
| |`-Y;'/ / ,-'\
| | //
The writing in of so *many* Tolkien references into this script was truly admirable.
Amazing work, thank you for information. Licencing and copyrights things are weird, it's hard to make a contract without any loopholes. It's actually funny when we think about it, that New Line or WB has the rights to make a movie and so, LOTR movies was 12 hours 38 minutes with credits and 11 hours 13 minutes without credits; meanwhile Amazon's The Rings of Power series has 8 episodes and total of only 8 hours. Even the theatrical cut LOTR movie was longer than 8 episodes of series.
I also find it sad how many companies and bloodsuckers trying to get a piece of it for all cost. I think there shouldn't be a repeating licences as long as they make a new movie or a serie only to extend their licencing contract. You can't stop them to make a really shit movie with lowest of a low budget, it can be achieved just by six or seven figures of cost and you can still call it a movie. I think those contracts must be one off, so you can't sit on a contract with a minimum expenses and try to sell your rights for billions.
Absolutely top tier video. Thank you for this and your expertise in writing and editing it.
almost snorted my drink during parts of this vid!! i loved the floating "logo" graphics and the choices you made to "wear them".
might be an interesting comparison vid if you look at the legal battles over ian fleming's bond alongside tolkien's.
I love how you cunningly weave bits of the script from the movies into this video.
Thanks RUclips Penguin! You made this tangled mess a pleasure to follow and surprisingly easy to understand!
On the scouting of Hobbiton, there is a much more extensive feature in one of the dvd special features
What
@@davidhimmelfahrt3732 I can't remember which edition or disk it is right now, you might be able to find a re-upload somewhere
Great video! Such an interesting and complicated topic, but you managed to make it easy to follow! It will be kinda fascinating to see how the fragmentation of the rights might lead to us seeing very distinct, parallel reimaginings of Middle Earth, more than has previously been possible.
This was amazing! The number of references you included so seamlessly!
Were you unintentionally using the Wheel of Time into? “The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again.”
"What about second lawsuit" 👏😂
fantastic video, well written and narrated to add plenty of information with humor sprinkled in to not over load the viewer and lose interest and did your best to make sure it made sense. That's crazy how the rights to something can stretch and have many companies involved fighting over who has the rights to what things.
Dammit this was fun… you kick ass.
THE PUNS IN THE VEDIO is why i am subscribing to you. absolutely loveit
Amazing work. Thank Eru for Your channel :)
I own Lord of the Rings, a copy bought in 1983, it's a replacement for an older copy I loaned to a friend. Nobody can rewrite or reinterpret it. Let them get caught up in their legal battles, I have my books.
Explain this video in LOTR terms
Pentex Productions: YES
If that is indeed the will of the Council, then Pentex will see it done.
How have I only found this video now! Brilliant work and editing.
It got a bit buried by the algorithm sadly, but glad you enjoyed it - it was fun to make!
Bezos was pretty shrewd to aquire the TV-licence (of LotR and the Hobbit), since "TV" is currently a medium that is re-inventing itself through digital streaming. But rather than adapting the books themselves, he would instead greenlight a project hinging on an entirely new storyline (written by actual amateurs), loosely based on the mere appendices of the books they own the rights to. As if Tolkien's name above the title is the only thing that matters. At least we can still count on the biggest media corporations to keep making the worst decisions imaginable. What a time to be alive.
They did exactly the same thing with the Wheel of Time.
Bought the rights, hired amateur show runners, wrote a story very loosely based on the books, made up new main characters but named them the same as in the books.
@@Merecir It's a sign of industrial decadence, I think.
Worst decisions ? Their bad products still sell and make a profit, which is all they care about, so it's a really good decision in their eyes.
Just look at the genius design of their MMO :
1 - Hype in 2 forms :
Seemingly interesting, skilled and novel combat system, complex and huge world, PvP oriented mass combat, server wide consequences of guilds actions yadayada.
Pay every known streamer in the planet to play early release. The game looks promising, combat is fun, all is well.
2 - No subscription MMO ! Unheard of ! Pay it once, play it forever !
So a lot of people bought the game, or pre bought it, alright.
Come release :
Not enough server capacity, most people can't connect for days on end.
The PvE content is quickly done, redundant, quests are trash and generic.
The market system, that dictates all trading between players, is based on no regulation "capitalist heaven" type and just doesn't work at all, leading to litteral market crash and crisis (you can't invent it xD).
PvP is the same mess. Servers quickly polarize, that is the largest group controls economy of the game, so that it attracts more people -> One group dominates, making PvP uninteresting.
As a consequence, many people played for a while, then left.
But it's a one time buy, so the more people buy and the less they play, the more money they make. genius.
Lure people in with attractive façade, implant many flaws by design, make them leave, pay less for servers and maintenance -> PROFIT.
Well played Jeff.
@@brunetyannick1174 Granted, "worst" may be slightly hyperbolical. But as you so well describe, many triple-A companies seem to ignore the potential for long term profits and simply go for the quick, cynical cash-grab.
Yet, once in a while someone does the opposite, creates a juggernaut franchise and the same triple-A companies will still only try to make a quick buck off the trend instead of applying themselves. The bigger the company, the more risk-averse it is.
@@brunetyannick1174 Rings of Power is NOT making a profit fyi. Their viewership is dwindling and has had pretty bad numbers from the beginning, atleast way to bad for a show with that budget.
Woah what a great copyrights case
The legal cases not being publicized
Lol the fan service here in this video is next level. Well done
It was lots of fun to write!
Interesting content indeed
aww it good to see other stories brunch of Lord of the Rings
Love the storytelling! ❤
all the quotes worked into this script are expertly done. bravo
It was a lot of fun to right - glad people picked up on them :)
Another wonderful video! I am curious about the rights of the Silmarillion. Amazon clearly had to dart around some historical topics in their TV series.
4:50 a Wheel of Time reference? 😊
Great video!
This is so beautiful, you worked in so many references that made me actually laugh out loud 😂 Turned this otherwise exhaustingly complex legal explanation into a fun and intriguing story ✨✨✨
I agree
I love this video, you got a new subscriber
Welcome! Hope you enjoy the other LOTR videos as well.
Great work! I hope this video gets to be seen by many more people! Loved all the "missused" quotes of the original text 😂
It was a fun script to write :)
0:44 Actually He Saw LOTR as a 2 part Novel at the beginning... 1-the fellowship of the ring 2-the war of the ring
I do. I have several copies on my shelf. Including the audiobook format. I couldn't care less about the rest.
And amazon is fucking up hard how... they have so much money. HOW CAN THEY MESS THIS UP SO BAD
Sauron is the true owner.
YAY MORE LORD OF THE RINGS!! More pleasee
Blue gang!
8:04 holy hell!!
I’m surprise that new line hadn’t make an whole sires and movies of JRR Tolkien work from the simerilions stories,hobbit and more.
What I want to know is when are the individual stories going to become public domain ??
In 2037 , would The Hobbit be public domain ?
Quite possibly - it will be interesting to see what happens as that date draws near. A lot of the Tolkien works have Christopher Tolkien as the 'editor' and the Estate argue that his death should be the starting point for copyright, but that is not the case with the original version of The Hobbit. There may also be a debate about which version of the Hobbit could go public - the version published in 1937 is quite different from the version you'll be familiar with; Tolkien retrospectively edited it to align it more with LOTR.
Unlikely, Disney will have removed everything from the public domain in perpetuity by then
@@Buttonpusher42 Steamboat Willie will enter public domain on January 1, 2024.
@@Merecir except for the frames that are now the Disney Animation Logo which will be protected as "integral to the company branding" which includes SW whistling and spinning the steering wheel. Everything else hits the public domain.
@@Buttonpusher42 If something is Public Domain, then it's free for everyone to use in its entirety. Having a clip from a Public Domain cartoon be part of their branding means nothing. Trademark laws do not cover video, last time I checked. Everyone would still be free to take the cartoon and do whatever they legally want with it.
very informative and entertaining, great job!
Nice video! This was very confusing to me, and still is a little bit I guess, lol. What a mess.
Oh Lawdy Lawd dem Rangz
What about that Rotoscope version of the Fellowship of the Ring?
Thx
Dude, this is amazing lol - thank you so much for the work
The references! The references are lit!
As lit as the beacons of Minas Tirith!
I disagree that Tolkien's works were temporalily public domain in the US. Once in the public domain, always in the public domain. That's clearly not the case here, and if its not public domain now, then it never was. When copyright laws were solidified in 1996, I'm pretty sure that the decision made was that certain works had mistakenly been considered public domain works when they really weren't, and not that they were going to be re-copyrighted. Re-copyrighting a public domain work is copyfraud, and can get someone in serious trouble.
This video is funny as hell 😂😂
Wow.
What happened to that bit about tv shows being no more than 8 episodes?
cant wait for lotr to become public domain tbh
The original Lord of the Rings book set was six books, not three. This can still be seen in the index.
13:20 Gamemaker and LOTR? 🤔
Not forgetting Tolkien died in 1973, when the Universal Copyright Convention stipulated copyright, on an original work and all derivatives, was to be LIFE + 25 years (would have entered the Public Domain in 1999), extended to LIFE + 50 years, by the 1986 Berne convention. An extension the middle earth (New Zealand) observes, and so will free the grand hobbit Jackson, let alone hobbiton, from the legal hoard, as of 2024. The US has its own 95 years from publication rule, which given the works went to press un 1954, will limit independent US releases before 2039.
I believe MGM is also owned by amazon now, not sure how that would affect the rest seeing as they sold their rights to Middle Earth Enterprises/ Embracer Group but yeah
And the lason we lernd today is if you buy movie rights of a well known book or video game also buy the TV rights
6:53 this guy's too funny
yeah I laughed my ass off to all lotr references lmao
Me, I bougth it in a bookshop.
what a fun script
It was fun to write :)
have been trying to decipher what and what isn't canon to LOTR(movie) and if i have got this right, then nothing is canon apart from the Hobbit and LOTR, even though rings of power is very obviously based upon the movies and not books.
Gives a new meaning to battle of five armies Lol
Simple answer, the Rockwells aka BlackRock
This is so effing good. This should have 10x - 100x the views.
Thanks for watching - a lot of work went into it! The algorithm punished it sadly, but every comment and share helps. Glad you enjoyed it.
@@PentexProductions …It abandoned the algorithm. But then something happened, the video did not intend. It was viewed by the most unlikely creature imaginable. Some guy in Germany.
I own it. 2 copies in fact..
Basically the lawyers of a small company got totally owned by the lawyers of a much much bigger company
5:16 "He who shall not be named" ...? hey, thats not the right beloved fantasy series!
Why didn't Scotty just beam the Fellowship up to Mordor?
Cracked.
So, what you're saying is there's a shot we can see a Total War: Middle Earth, afterall?
I do. Because I've bought physical copies of the book and I can enjoy the unaltered story any time I want to.
Everything else is subject of manipulation and degeneration for the sake of profits and agendas.
11:30 wait, an anime?
I'm looking forward to hearing what you think of the new show! I enjoy it, and that's what matters!
video starts at 14:00
It doesn't matter who owns the rights, if it's not entirely based on the books themselves then it doesn't count.
No matter if the spin-off is good like Shadow of Mordor was
Using the rights for gambling does seem like a step too far. WB deserved that lawsuit.
If you had seen the movies by Tolkien you would have known it's Sauron.
"My PRECIOUS!!!!" - Bezos
I do
It is mine
6:33 🤣🤣🤣🤣
ait least this gave a whole lot of lawyers work :D
The true fans
Epic analysis, and so very funny--making what amounts to a Tolkien cash-grab-free-for-all, into the farcical situation that it is, and continues to be, interspersed with astute film clip 'asides'. Wow!
He who shall not be named, lmao
A name that will never pass my lips!
i own them , i think , i mean , i've seen them 60+ times , so i Must own them now
Russia needs to declare it all.public domain, period.
So... who do we like and who do we hate?
How is Amazon allowed to make the Rings of Power series if they're, as you've said, based on the rights they own for the Hobbit and LOTR? Because the events there are from the Silmarillion.
the events are based on the LOTR appendices
this is why no one should ever sell intellectual property rights no matter what pressure they are under.
The amount of references/dialogue from the movies sneeked in like every 2 sentences is amazing 👌🏻👌🏻