I LOVE the intensity of Sam's voice when he said "THEY ARE REAL TO ME." I know this wasn''t well received, but god damnit I loved it. I love the idea of alternate times lines in large franchises like this.
People ragged on the scream he makes when it looks like Juno is dead but like... this isn't supposed to be a cool badass moment? He made a sound like someone who has lost all rational thought and is about to go full Chimp Mode on someone. People do not sound badass when they're in a blind rage, they sound feral, and he delivered that perfectly.
This game unironically has a better usage of "cloning to bring back a beloved major character" than Episode IX's "Somehow Palpatine returned." I don’t know whether that says more about the game or the film, but either way, it's interesting nonetheless.
A couple of fun facts about this series: 1, The guy who voices Vader got the part after doing a spot-on Impression for a web series he made about "What if Darth Vader was the manager of a supermarket". 2, George Lucas infamously *DESPISES* these games, with lucasarts staff actually hiding posters and replacing statues and figures whenever he would visit. This is also what lead to them almost making a game about Darth Talon teaming up with a Clone of Darth Maul in an buddy-cop style game because George pushed statues of the 2, one of whom had replaced a Starkiller Statue, together mid pitch meeting and just proclaimed "their friends".
I appreciate the man for bringing this setting to fruition but... yeah, I'm kind of glad he isn't in charge of it anymore. Man did not like the idea of sith being force ghosts when that is, in actuality, very cool and/or horrifying depending on the situation.
I think you got two stories mixed up. George, in an honestly shocking moment, said that he considered The Force Unleashed 1 to be canon to the movies. Disney just decided anything that wasn't the 6 movies + Clone Wars to be non-canon. What you're thinking about is the canceled Darth Maul game which was being handled by a completely different studio. It was basically gonna be a stealth game where Maul would feed off of the fear he induces in his victims before striking them down. After the pitch meeting where Lukas proclaimed him and Talon friends, they moved it to the Legacy Era with Darth Maul being a clone commissioned by Darth Krayt with Talon overseeing his recovery/development. Still stupid but I don't want to shift something Disney is at fault for to George when there's very little need since both are guilty of some things.
@@clevernamehere2812 I read about it in a 2018-2019 issue of game informer that had a a big dozen page thing on starwars games and I remember someone saying in an interview that they had to move plants to cover Force unleashed posters and that they DID have to remove a starkiller statue from Force unleashed 2 in lue of the maul and Talon ones. I think you are right that it was about the Maul game though, I still have the issue buried somewhere I might have to dig it out and double check.
As messy as this game was, I still found it enjoyable. Definitely a step down from the first game but by no means awful. I still wish we had got a third game where we took on that evil Starkiller clone. Maybe one day but doubtful.
I feel like we’d just get another disappointment. ie: We’d get a flashy CGI trailer that only shows off the title of the game. Years go by, people get hyped, and then we realise after months of radio-silence that it got announced waaaaaaaay too early. Another year goes by and we get the news that the studio is closing down and the game is officially MIA. Sound familiar?
I am right there with you man. I think Vader just keeps wiping his memory every time he doesn't get the desired effect. Or maybe we start with the first time Vader was able to successfully bring Galen back to consciousness. Regardless Vader is a gaslighting monster.
i love the maris brood idea. i also desperately wish star wars would use its incrediblely vast lore to explore different settings within the franchise. part of what i love about star wars is that it can fit all these different stories at different times and present them in a non linear way. the different aesthetics, struggles and politics of each era help keep stories fresh and branching out into more obscure time periods can only be good imo
Soon, Star Wars will be exploring the future after ST, and the very dawn of the Jedi as well. That should be quite interesting. Oh, and the High Republic Era contains some excellent storylines
Honestly i really quite love your "The Real Starkiller" version of the story. Having found you via your two "mature" horror game videos ive been quite enjoying binging a significant amount of your videos and have a particular love for these story board videos.
I agree with your take on the Star Destroyer Scene. It'd even link to the Obi-Wan power scale when Vader stops the Rebel carrier death on its tracks at takeoff with the Force. I still find the scene pretty cool in the game, and in the series it gave me the shivers. It's such an amazing concept that's barely shown, even after having as strong force users as Galen or Vader in games already.
Vader just stopping that ship and ripping it apart was literally so cool. I feel like it really fits him since he's kinda supposed to be the strongest Sith/Jedi. It's so raw
Ok hear me out right, the dialog in this game and the second one are both top tier. SK: "You said you would stay away" Vader the Villian: "I lied" That is so Vader it hurts and Sam VA'ed his ass off for the games lol
Personally I feel star killer (Galen marek not the clone) should have never died in force unleashed one. I remember seeing a youtube comment of talking about how a great alternative wouldve been dor him to be defeated by locked away/put in carbonite aa Vader would feel is too valuable an asset to lose. Fast forward to a post episode 6 starwars where Luke and Kyle Katarn raid a top secret imperial base, thaw out Galen Marek and now he is working alongside the others to stabilize a galaxy. This way we could see Galen's journey as he struggles to let go of his past and eventually joins Luke's jedi order as a powerful ally. Oh what could have been.
Really appreciate the willingness to not only critique but put your own ideas on the line by revising the stories. I'm of the mind that every story has the chance to be stellar, and it's inspiring to see what could have been, or even what could be if someone ever takes up the narrative threads for themselves in their own narratives.
We really need more stories of more force users who don't fit into the binary black and white of the light and dark side. It lets them explore the nuance of the force and how both sides have their flaws. Hell something I always liked about old Star wars lore was that that the homeworld of the Jedi (and technically the Sith, or rather the dark side teachings that would inform the Sith order) had two moons, one that was strong in the dark and one in the light and, before these proto-jedi split into light and dark side users, if someone was found to be leaning too far to one side of the force they were sent to the moon of the opposing alignment for a time to even them back out.
I wholeheartedly agree. I really wish they'd recanonize Galen Marek, or at least reuse the idea of a super-powerful Force user who doesn't fit as a Jedi or Sith. Like, Vader's "training" for Starkiller basically just throwing him into life-or-death battles and forcing him to get stronger if he wanted to survive, so you could make a completely new character with the same "training" by just having a Force sensitive child on their way to Coruscant get stranded on some random death world like Dathomir, and then they grow up fighting for their life against whatever carnivorous wildlife inhabit the place. "Fear is the path to the dark side", so this kid would be close to the Dark Side from being a scared child in a hostile environment, which would also be why they always fight so fiercely and never hold anything back, but they'd never go all the way because all they have is that fear. By the time they grow up, they'd be a super strong, super violent, super ruthless Force wielding badass, but they wouldn't have a lightsaber. If you absolutely have to have them using a lightsaber, just have some random Sith sense their presence and come to investigate, and then get instantly destroyed, and then they keep the lightsaber and escape on their ship. Now they're the whole galaxy's problem, and the Jedi of the era have to put together a task force to hunt them down and do something about it. One or two of them think the kid can be saved, and eventually they're proven right, but we'd get a bunch of extremely over-the-top violent action scenes with space magic along the way. Make it a miniseries and call it something like "Star Wars: Fear", or something like that.
@@FelisImpurrator Because it makes no sense. Anakin is not supposed to be Thanos. The force is not a source of eternal conflict wishing to make harmony & greed and evil forever coexist.
What if, Vader actually does walk away from Starkiller and that whole plot, because ya know... he's been found out. And instead the cloning plot was put in play by Palpatine, the guy who already has a known interest in cloning and in particular cloning force users and doubly in particular cloning force users so their essence can be transferred into said clone. I doubt his transfer post deathstar tumble would be his very first experiment with the subject. So he rolls starkillers clone progeny into the existing programs and sees some success. He then applies some nasty sith alchemy to tear Starkillers essence from the force and install it into a clone, but the results are less than perfect. The poverty character gets some memories emotions and connections but not enough to really be starkiller. And he struggles with identity and choice, drawn to what Starkiller knew and loved, drawn to his own needs and desires, and overall just resentful as hell that he's trapped in this hell where the closest thing he has to a life is what's left of someone else's choices. The fact that he is jot a complete incarnation of the deceased Starkiller is driven home by the appearance of the shambling incomplete clones, all holding some desperate tiny fragment of the man he isn't. There's some meaty existential and identity horror right there. There is no perfect Starkiller clone, there can't be. But there is an unsettling implication for those of us familiar with the franchise, the uncomfortable thought that the likes of Quigon Obi-Wan Yoda and Anikin are not necessarily safe within the force, the twisted power of the sith, Palpatine specifically means that they are as vulnerable to his machinations as the living. It even imo adds some substance to the sequel films. Was Palpatine just faking the voice of Vader for Ben's benefit? Or was he twisting the man himself? Were Obi-Wan and Yoda quiet all those years for no reason? Or were they silenced by the risen dark lord?
The interactive/gameplay and visual elements of video games are a key part of the media format, but a lot of them wouldn't be half as interesting without that world and story to get lost in
I've always felt like Force Unleashed had heaps of cool ideas and concepts, flubbed most of them and still ended up being interested and engaging, goes for both games. Messy is cerainly a fitting word for it. I loved the ideas proposed in this video, especially the Maris being the focal character one! As stunning as Sam Witwer's performance is, can't find a soft spot for out boy Starkiller for some reason, but the draft with him was very compelling. Also as an aside, thanks for this great reminder that there's a lot to appreciate about Star Wars.
Your conclusion is SO real. What captures my imagination about Star Wars isn't the individual stories but the sheer breadth of how many stories can fit inside its lore. Star Wars lore is insane! DO MORE WITH IT, COWARDS
Gotta say i wasnt expecting an *EPIC* level fanfic plot when i clicked but im auper entertained by it. I'm a sucker for the "brainwashed to be evil" trope so your vision of a What If? Force Unleashed sequel really moves me.
Oh dear I sleep for a few videos and you are already at 30k, congratz^^ If ever you are considering it, looking at Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 could be pretty interesting - especially the second one, given its rushed development and having an entire mod that restores an entire planet of gameplay to it.
Yeah. i agree. Good ideas. Something i thought of after listening is combining the two Ideas. Maris Brood and the Real Star killer ones. Game opens with scared and lost Maris figuring things out and if we want to keep the connection to SWTOR perhaps gets to speak with Lana Beniko who helps her. Could be like 1-3 levels. Then we swap to Star killer until the temple on the unnamed planet. the two have some chat about what happened and Star killer explains what's going on in the wider world. Maris wants to help against Vader who is, the ultimate reason why her previous master died. Same as it goes until the Juno kidnapping, Maris and Star killer fight together against his clones and the HK droids. The Assault happens and Star killer together with Maris defeat Vader. Maris wants to kill him, overwhelmed with hatred for what he did and Star killer either talks her down or goes with it. Dark ending being the killing of Vader. Turns out the Emperor is actually a scheming SOB, who knew, and had himself a star killer clone but also made sure to have him strong and ready to go. Light ending. Both Maris and Star Killer, after calming down from the emotional fight that a middle ground between their teachings is the way to go. Emotions aren't bad but completely letting them rampant or suppressing them completely is. they support the rebel alliance as much as they can but instead of just fighting they know that both of them suffered and nearly turned into monsters not because they are inherently bad but isolation and silent suffering. Vowing to find all those force users currently being hurt and used and oppressed by the Empire that feel hopeless and alone. And yeah, i fully agree with your closing statements. Kinda dislike the weird Sci-fi stasis that Star Wars suffers from. And since SW:TOR was brought up, i was always baffled when in that game they bring up czerka and how they are currently doing this revolutionary tech stuff. Like.. that really does not seem like a star wars thing. However i would like it to be. Disney has an opportunity here. Give us non-stagnant world ples. As for a game to look at, Fable Series has a bunch of "choices" for whats moral and what isnt, Chaser is so agonizingly close to something good or Area 51 from 2005. A game that is completely lost to the world as far as i know. I never played more then the demo but it was wild. Perhaps content is there.
Here’s the thing with Czerka: When KOTOR 1 and 2 were made, there was ALOT of capitalist parody stuff going around - especially in videogames, like Ratchet and Clank. But in those games, because Czerka is meant to be satire, all of their “revolutionary technology” is faulty/cheap and it’s a big, cartoonishly evil corporation that practices both kinds of slavery. And so it helps build the image of Czerka as being extra slimey and threatening - but in the same way that big corporate capitalism is, whereby it’s also highlighted by some pretty impressive levels of general incompetence. That’s Czerka. SWTOR’s Czerka is almost none of those things. And the game just never seemed to know or understand what to do with Czerka. Like we got a couple of flashpoints about an experiment or two that went wrong? But that’s about it.
Hooooo! I was just getting antsy for an update. Timing couldn't be better! Edit: Just shy of halfway through. Really like all the SWTOR inspiration! That little Lana segment felt so in character. Your work as a writer really shined through, there.
I personally prefer what George Lucas said that's Galen Marek was never killed and that he embraces the identity of starkiller and secretly helps with the rebellion
I personally had an idea for a Force Unleashed 3 game. A what if scenario with the tutorial being Anakin and Obi-Wan's duel on Mustafar. You play as Anakin and basically the story is you win against Obi-Wan and now serve Palpatine while gathering your forces in secret to overthrow him. It takes place over years, maybe Galen makes an appearance, but the main focus is on eventually tracking down Luke and Leia to bring them in as Vader's apprentices and usher in the Skywalker dynasty. I dunno how you might be able to make a "good" ending for such a game, but then again, just being able to play as an unapologetic bad guy would be cool too.
I'm glad I discovered this channel. your ideas are fascinating, and I fondly remember these games as rather fun power fantasy really wish there was more(/modern) takes on it (without the unbearable jankiness of trying to play it on PC)
Not sure about the melodrama at the end, but this is actually a really good idea for the sequel. Although while watching this I had an idea of my own which keeps to the original starting point, with clone Galen being unstable and fleeing Vader to rejoin his old friends. But his instability combined with various losses, such as Proxy and Juno dying pushes him towards the dark side, ending with him becoming a lone, broken and erratic Dark Jedi. PLUS! He could disappear at the end due to just being insane, be absent for the trilogy, and return for a third game, likely as an antagonist and maybe with us hunting him as the perfect clone some time on.
It's amazing how well this story is with just a little fine tuning. My pitch for a sequel was way out there,; heavily inspired by Silent Hill 2 with Starkiller in a surreal landscape reliving past memories and fighting ancient Sith no longer alive. The idea hit me when meeting Ajunta Pul in KOTOR. What would it be like a lingering Force ghost to finally rejoin the light? I doubt Disney would ever make a Star Wars film this surreal but I can always hope.
My favourite personal anecdotal tiddy bitty about this game is that I rented it for 24 hours, back in the days when rental stores were a thing, and I finished it. Twice. I wasn't even trying to speed run it, the game is just that short. But also fun enough that was I was willing to do it twice in one day.
Honestly thanks to you I decided to grab the games on PC and go through the effort of making them playable. I dearly appreciate that, as the first game has been a massive nostalgia trip for me, as this was one of the first more "mature" games I was allowed to play as a wee lad. The second game, (which i have yet to play again but I'll likely give it a go soon enough here), was just dumb fun for me. Loved playing it simply for how carnage I could create compared to the prior game, although as someone who now understand the lore of Star Wars as well as...general story beats, its a messy one plot wise as well. Still, love the game, and I love your hypothetical re-interpretations of how its plot could have been. More Old Republic stuff sounds amazing as someone who missed out on a LOT of those IP's set at that time when I was younger, and I'd love a chance to experience the setting with a modern take. But again, thank you for putting in so much effort for your videos, they're always a blast to watch and listen to and I'm glad I found your channel a month ago or so. Keep on making quality stuff!
That description of the removal of the tracker implant sent a chill down my spine like full on gore in a star wars game outside of chopping off limbs would be crazy
I enjoyed this! I've been actually pondering a similar video, and this might finally give me the kick in the pants to put it together. That said, I feel bad about how hurriedly Blackman had to write the actual game we got. He only had two weeks to write the entire script. Plus one of the team leads REALLY wanted to just keep following the Infinities route of the DLC of last game, but unfortunately was outvoted because they were given like 9 months total to put the whole game together. This was the straw that broke the camel's back too, because LucasArts KEPT DOING THIS TO THEIR STUDIO AND PARTNERS, acting like every game of any scale could just be made in a year's time. "Not a great plan".gif This is also why we never saw them revisit the cut multiplayer from the first game's LucasArts version, and why almost no new characters appear. For what it's worth, the Wii version does reveal that Maris might've originally reappeared thanks to some unlockable concept art (though it's a poor imitation of the main game, the Wii version features a variety of cut script elements and Dagobah being a real playable level), but her sequel design was definitely more Witchblade than actually humbled by her mistakes made during the first game.
We’ll time to take as a sign to finished Endor with an upgraded starkiller and go back the og game wish me luck on unleashed difficulty. (Note) Number 1138 is a reference to George Lucas first movie THX 1138 that referenced in some other works in the series like in Andor.
Don't know if I'm a little too late to throw in my two cents... But I think that you could marry the two concepts. Marris Brood is defending and attempting to liberate a world that is under Imperial control with Starkiller clones running around as minibosses. Meanwhile, Galen Marek is following Maris as a force ghost, teaching and advising her where appropriate and the two of them growing as people together. Maybe have a whole sequence about Maris claiming Starkiller's lightsaber, giving her the ability to switch between her gameplay centering on stealth to the combat heavy gameplay of the first game. It could either be a super mode, a get-out-of-jail-free card, whatever. And of course she would inherit memories from Galen, their bond allowing her to inherit more abilities and even convince Kota and Juno that she's an ally. I absolutely love these games and wish there was just a little more to them. Justice for Canon Starkiller.
Sorry for the long post. So I did a recent playthrough of these games because the last time I did was about a decade ago at least. They were on sale for like 5 dollars in total and I scooped them up. What I came away with surprised me: I enjoyed The Force Unleashed II way more than the first game. It was really weird because I remember thinking that the first game was so good in so many ways but man I just kept liking it less and less. The game was shockingly clunky and the combat was infuriating. It was all about who stunned who first with no way to break out of being stun locked. As the game went on I found myself dreading some fights because I knew it was going to be a ridiculous stun fest. Moving on to Force Unleashed II the game felt so much more smooth. The combat was much more slick and the game surprisingly looked really good. I don't know if it was just cause I was on pc but as I kept playing I was impressed. Especially with Kamino and all the rain and weather. What was so disappointing was the quarter baked story. It was so underdone you can probably call it raw. It is so obvious the developers did not have time to do what they wanted to do and what we were left with is something that feels less like a part two and more like a part 1.5. I really wished they got their third game. Oh and a little thing about Part 2 Starkiller: I am probably totally wrong but I had always felt that we were playing as the actual Starkiller who was brought back much in the same way Vader did before and he keeps wiping Galen's memories every time he fails. He is doing this, biding time until he completes the cloning process the way he wants it and keeps Galen alive because he needs more time to perfect that tech or to forgo the difficult process of trying to make a clone of a force sensitive and have his gaslit little Galen back. I do really like your idea of Vader viewing Galen like a kid he never had and I think that probably has some part in it. Vader is trying so desperately to have this one guy be his apprentice to what end? I dunno it's a thought (a lot of thoughts)
When you were reviewing the prototype series, you said you appreciated infamous more. I would love to see your retelling of the games stories and give some creative thoughts on how you would’ve written it.
I see your point, and I raise you one: they should have done a multi-character story with converging plot-lines like they did in the Last of Us or the Arkham games... bad examples maybe but ykwim I hope. Start as Starkiller and get that whole storyline chopped up with Maris Brood sprinkled in and maybe play as Kota for a chapter or two, perhaps one mission running around as Proxy for giggles. Way ahead of this games time and budget but brooo it would've been legendary.
Converging narratives? With multiple characters? Different timelines? All contributing to a single plot? Dude, Tribes Vengeance was doing that in 2003. 😂😂😂
So I'm sure I don't need to say this but since it hasn't been mentioned yet, FU2 was originally going to be different than what we got. But there was internal issues with the company, had to quickly remake a story and a game to go with it, and deal with people jumping ship. This was shortly before Disney bought SW.
I really wish these games could somehow fit into the canon universe considering I'd love Ahsoka to meet Starkiller. Anakin and Vader's Apprentices who had vastly different journeys. I also really agree with how this is a massive treasure trove of a series where it isn't fully used to its extents
I always wondered what a force user who was a sort of jack-of-all-trades in forms of combat would go like. Maybe being like a former member of some kind of law enforcement, who was mainly trained in blasters and CQC techniques, who soon discovered of the type of corrupt and seedy underbelly the organisation had, with them learning of their force sensitivity being the sort of final nail on the coffin, in regards to leaving the place. And so, basically went to train under the Jedi so that their newfound abilities could be put to use in what they would consider a force of good. Possibly would end up being deemed a "grey" of sorts, when they see how stagnant the Jedi order has gotten and start to become a bit disillusioned by aspects of their philosophies, whilst also trying to keep themselves in check to avoid getting roped into the dark side (likely equating it to the galaxy's most addictive drug, back during training). Could even be some interesting dialogue if they were to encounter a Sith, maybe even finding some way to coax them into fighting bare-handed, through something like reasoning with them that if they wanted to take their anger out on them, then surely they would get that release they yern for by beating them within an inch of their life, rather than just cutting them down with one strike.
I always loved The Force Unleashed 2, and really liked Clonekiller. Though I do think it is really, REALLY fucked that he just kinda...slides into the original Galen's relationship with Juno at the end when he is a DIFFERENT PERSON. Yes he has the memories and attachments, but he isn't Galen. The game could have easily been about him learning to separate himself from the original more and focusing on the traits where he differs (Pretty sure it's noted that he's more snarky than the original, for example.)
I think your ideas are good. I also agree that TFU2 should have followed Maris Brood. The original concept art for the TFU project showed both a male and female protagonist. Looking at Brood's portrayal, it just seems obvious that is what the female protag evolved into. My idea does differ a bit from yours, though. In my idea, she actually wasn't honest with Starkiller about giving up the dark side, and she makes a living as a mysterious bounty hunter at the start of the game since she doesn't want to commit herself to anyone else. Maris becomes the pupil of Arden Lyn, a former Follower of Palawa from the First Great Schism. Arden Lyn is a character from the maligned Masters of Teräs Käsi, but her story was filled out by the lore team in many ways after the fact. Now Arden is actually a pretty interesting, but forgotten, character. Maris is at first recruited by Arden when she is one of the Emperor's Hands. As Maris fights alongside Arden, Arden tells her stories of the First Great Schism in the form of flashbacks where you play as Arden. These will also serve as tutorials where Maris learns Teräs Käsi moves from Arden, expanding Maris' powers. Between this and Maris' existing animal handling skills, the powers could be toned down a little bit without weakening Maris since she now has many more options. You could even construct Force-enhanced blades like the ones used in the Schism before the invention of lightsabers, offering more customization to your fighting style. The two eventually join Demetrius Zaarin's coup against the Emperor, giving players a chance to fight against Imperials without actually joining the Rebellion. Eventually, you'd board the Majestic and fight with Arden and her other recruits against Sheev, and "win." The game leaves it open to question whether or not Sheev allowed himself to be captured just to torment Arden, who threatens his claim to know the oldest forgotten secrets of the Force. Of course, Vader and Maarek Stele disable the shuttle you are transporting the Emperor on, and during the boarding action, Palpatine ambushes Maris and Arden, driving them away. I think it would be dramatic if Arden died here, but the lore says that doesn't happen. Anyway, I think this makes a really cool plot for the game that nicely weaves into gameplay improvements, and most of it is actually just synergizing with existing lore. You even get to see TIE Defenders kicking butt out the window during the finale!
6:46 I actually liked Forced Ubleashed 2 as it is; but I do admit this plot seems interesting and if we ever get a third Force Unleashed game, hopefully it focuses on Maris Brood.
Just discovered your channel yesterday and my force lord what a blast ! thx for your work you deserve more subscribers ! I would love to see you talk about the Infamous series since you did prototype ! Is it something you would be willing to do ? Keep up !
like the video, but the use of Interstellar as a polar opposite of Star Wars being "hard sci-fi" is extremely funny when Interstellar is a Spirit Halloween costume of science over the physical personification of love transcending all space and time. Star Trek would probably be more apropos imo
Tbh, I’m very much in the camp of “the cloning is contrived” especially because it’s built up as a VERY thinly veiled mystery over the course of the game - but the opening level makes it soooooooo obvious. Whereas the ritual idea taps into some juicy Old Republic lore and the ritual idea allows the player to enjoy the sequence described on Odessan and we get to engage with this idea of a synthesis between the light and the dark - which is fundamentally interesting. (The main issue is that this entire thing is anachronistic, SWTOR didn’t exist yet and she’s very much leaning on SWTOR not KOTOR.)
@Nikelaos_Khristianos I think the connection between ep 2 and 3 and the ot as well as the connection to the train tribology would have been better. We have force clones in all of them and it would be very strange for vader not to consider cloning since he has been around clones so much. Dark magic however has no representation I any movie. However I agree that while the idea is good the execution was bad.
@@emilsinclair4190 I do hear where you’re coming from, but here’s a counterpoint that also comes up in the video: Star Wars games are at their best when they’re NOT trying to tie into the movies and reference the movies constantly. This is why Morgan references characters like the Bendu from Rebels in this video - it’s a totally unique entity - and it shows off the best parts of Clone Wars and Rebels, when stuff gets just a little weird. Plus, classic example, Chris Avellone (who wrote KOTOR 2) famously liked Star Wars but hated the whole idea of “the Force.” Hence he wrote a character that embodied this ethos - Kreia - and she’s subsequently hailed as one of the best Star Wars characters ever written. The only film that played with this idea was the Last Jedi more than 10 years later. This point illustrates very elegantly that something set in Star Wars does not NEED to tie into the films in order to be good. To this end, I would maintain that Star Wars games are at their best when they’re not trying themselves into the movies. Otherwise we end up with a Star Wars that cannot ever escape names like “Darth Vader” or “Luke Skywalker” and we end up stifling creativity, novelty and originality. Consider this. (Separate point: What is the “Dark Side of the Force” if not a form of “dark magic?” In which case, the films are covered in this “dark magic.”)
@Nikelaos_Khristianos while I do see some of your points I have to disagree. I think that closeness to movies is irrelevant. The story and the mechanics are what makes or break a game. Eaw for example is often seen as one of the best games and it closely ties in with the movies. Sure. Some of the weirdness of the star wars and force lore can be very intresting. (Howeve I was never a fan of the bendu. The bend and the time travel temple were the worst parts of rebels imo). But we have to accept that this is a sequel. A sequel that should feature the same main character. And that therefore has to deal with vade rand his motivations, abilities and skills. So we need a way to justify playing as him. And if we look at it from an in universe perspective using sith magic seems a strange choice. Vader has served along clones. So cloning would be an idea in his mind. On the other hand unlike his master vader was never described to be deep into the sith magic part of the force. So from an in universe perspective cloning makes more sense. Sith magic However could be used as a plot point. Like a big power upgrade either the main character or some of his enemies get at a certain point of the story. And I think the dark force powers can be separated into two groups of activities. One is direct. Fore lightnings, chokes or telekinesis. The other has a ritual like appearance to it. And vader was rarely described with the second kind. And in fact the second kind also kinda goes against his characterisation. So using the second type would be very strange for vader. However if the emperor would have tried to replace vader with starkiller a ritual would have made sense. The emperor trying to train a replacement for vader would also have made for an interesting second part.
ohh i'm very interested in this one. i've never played the force unleashed games but i'm a huge star wars fan and always heard about them. they tend to be hailed as some of the best star wars media but i always thought there was too much hype so i'm looking forward to finishing this. (edit: nvm i'm watching the first video)
Personally, I do find that they’re overhyped as videogames - first and foremost, Starkiller just doesn’t control very nicely at all and even as a teenager I wasn’t blown away by them. Plus, there’s better Star Wars games out there - Jedi Knight, KOTOR, Empire at War, Galactic Battlegrounds, Republic Commando, etc. Secondly, there’s also better Star Wars media out there in all honesty. They were cool and novel for the time, but I’m definitely in the camp that believes that they don’t hold up very well. Especially as action games because they weren’t that great for the time anyway - they existed in a world that already had Devil May Cry 4, God of War 3 AND Bayonetta. This game didn’t even have a true lock on.
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos yeah, i still need to play them (or watch these videos) but they always gave me the impression of being too overhyped. i'm not saying they're bad, but a lot of people are nostalgic for them, and nostalgia can be a hell of a drug. it also doesn't help that most of its fans seem to ignore over-the-top, op uses of the force that they give other star wars media shit for including (and such double standards are often applied to characters that aren't white men too). but tbh i'm a newbie when it comes to star wars games, i've only really played swtor and jedi: fallen order (still finishing the second one so i can play survivor later)
@@AlexMartinez-nn2cm New to Star Wars games? OK, I’m guessing you have a PC if you’ve played SWTOR. But dude, seriously, if you don’t mind playing older games there’s a tonne of Star Wars from before 2010 that are absolutely worth playing today. My advice is always to start with Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel - realise they’re the pinnacle (OK, I’m definitely biased) - and then go down from there. 😂 Republic Commando still holds up incredibly well, if you like FPS (apart from the last level.) The Jedi Knight games are definitely worth trying - especially Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy (they’re the precursors to Jedi Survivor.) There’s also quite a few strategy games like Empire at War (the space battles!) and Galactic Battlegrounds (it’s an Age of Empires clone, but the Expanding Fronts mod is gold.) That should get you going. 😁 Just play what you like and ignore what you don’t like.
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos I've actually been meaning to play KOTOR for the longest time, but the game keeps having this monitor aspect rating bug in my PC that makes it almost unplayable. I'm gonna try and see if I can fix it but if I can't I'll just get it for my Xbox. A lot of SWTOR lore ties directly to KOTOR, so I'm excited to dive into it. Thank you for the other recommendations too!
how do you fight the clones in the other versions of the game that don't have the force sight power ( haven't played the pc version of either unleashed game )
I don't know anything about Lana beyond what you just told me, but as one of the three people who liked Vergere in the EU, I love her already. KOTOR II is my favorite Star War because of all the gray choices. And the idea that the Jedi Order was basically rebuilt single-handedly by someone so traumatized she gave the Force itself PTSD, and yet managed to help that many people with their problems... Chef kiss.
When you mention how people think the OT are best everything after is not as good it seemed you alluded to liking a property not as appreciated for not being in OT and I was hoping you'd elaborate on that?
I like the Original Trilogy films well enough, but I grew up at the time the prequel trilogy was coming out. It obviously has its flaws but I appreciate that it was a complete story, it knew what it was leading to and planned accordingly, and Revenge of the Sith is my absolute favourite of the lot, Order 66 kills me every time. I enjoyed the Force Awakens and parts of the Last Jedi but had my issues with it, and I feel like TROS would have stuck the landing had they just committed to Kylo Ren being the ultimate villain and Rey needing to stop him. I very much enjoyed the Clone Wars series for shedding more light on the lesser seen tensions and issues of that time period, the slow, uncomfortable shift of the Republic into the Empire, Kamino becoming less of a home and more of a thinly veiled prison to the clones, the Jedi becoming more and more complicit in the Republic's less savoury actions. Rebels was also super enjoyable to me and I especially loved the introduction of Bendu as a less black and white approach to the Force as that is one of my biggest gripes. The new shows and movies have their flaws, absolutely, but I think a lot of the love and praise for the OT comes from nostalgia and not wanting things to change, feeling like Your Thing is being taken away from you and these new fans just don't understand Star Wars, not "really." /At the same time/ as I said, Disney might be the right company to helm Star Wars financially, but they've shown with the handling of the sequel trilogy and their throwing out of the old EU to build up their own that this was purely a cold, calculated bid to print money. Which is expected, Disney is a massive corporation, I think I just expected that after the money they spent acquiring it they would ensure there was at least a complete outline of each movie in the sequel trilogy before hitting the green light. It's frustrating to see how Disney is doing things, I just also find it frustrating when other fans act like there's nothing good outside the OT.
@@khanlusa honestly fair enough I'm in a similar boat of growing up with the prequels having love for em despite their issues. That being said while I initially liked TFA that changed with time and I wasn't a huge fan of anything post DIsney. I get that people are biased in some cases of nostalgia but considering it's for one of if not the most iconic trilogy of all times it just seemed weird to me. However, I do get a little annoyed with people having strong statements of Star Wars when the only way they experienced it just the main line movies cause IMO the best stories come from the games like SWTOR and my personal goat KOTOR 2 with Kreia. Anyway thanks for the elaboration I'm new to your vids have a been binging so if these opinions are commonly known my b.
Let me subject you to Ixion which may require multiple attempts to get even one ending. There are actually a good number with I think a purely bad ending too. But now for the proper ending there's several of them. It's a mixture of various conditions that are needed such as rescuing a dog or getting a certain AI of sorts. For the purpose of making a video you might want to turn the difficulty way down as it's incredibly hard otherwise. And by hard I mean you might be swearing like a sailor out of frustration. But hey, it has a top notch soundtrack at least.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY RENAMED KORRIBAN, fuck i hate disney, anything they cant outright destroy they'll change out of spite, i havent had anything to do with star wars since i saw rise of palpatine opening night so anything else they've ruined is news to me
Sam Witwer's voice acting is still top notch in this game. His screams and lines during the last Vader fight still send shivers down my spine.
bros such a top tier voice actor. him in days gone made that game for me.
"THEY ARE REAL TO ME!" is a great quote both in and out of context.
I LOVE the intensity of Sam's voice when he said "THEY ARE REAL TO ME." I know this wasn''t well received, but god damnit I loved it. I love the idea of alternate times lines in large franchises like this.
People ragged on the scream he makes when it looks like Juno is dead but like... this isn't supposed to be a cool badass moment? He made a sound like someone who has lost all rational thought and is about to go full Chimp Mode on someone. People do not sound badass when they're in a blind rage, they sound feral, and he delivered that perfectly.
I love his voice acting, starkiller and darth maul are some of my favorite characters in fiction
This game unironically has a better usage of "cloning to bring back a beloved major character" than Episode IX's "Somehow Palpatine returned." I don’t know whether that says more about the game or the film, but either way, it's interesting nonetheless.
A couple of fun facts about this series:
1, The guy who voices Vader got the part after doing a spot-on Impression for a web series he made about "What if Darth Vader was the manager of a supermarket".
2, George Lucas infamously *DESPISES* these games, with lucasarts staff actually hiding posters and replacing statues and figures whenever he would visit. This is also what lead to them almost making a game about Darth Talon teaming up with a Clone of Darth Maul in an buddy-cop style game because George pushed statues of the 2, one of whom had replaced a Starkiller Statue, together mid pitch meeting and just proclaimed "their friends".
without actual ideas people george lucas was terrible at his job
@@Kris-wo4pj Agreed!
I appreciate the man for bringing this setting to fruition but... yeah, I'm kind of glad he isn't in charge of it anymore. Man did not like the idea of sith being force ghosts when that is, in actuality, very cool and/or horrifying depending on the situation.
I think you got two stories mixed up. George, in an honestly shocking moment, said that he considered The Force Unleashed 1 to be canon to the movies. Disney just decided anything that wasn't the 6 movies + Clone Wars to be non-canon.
What you're thinking about is the canceled Darth Maul game which was being handled by a completely different studio. It was basically gonna be a stealth game where Maul would feed off of the fear he induces in his victims before striking them down. After the pitch meeting where Lukas proclaimed him and Talon friends, they moved it to the Legacy Era with Darth Maul being a clone commissioned by Darth Krayt with Talon overseeing his recovery/development.
Still stupid but I don't want to shift something Disney is at fault for to George when there's very little need since both are guilty of some things.
@@clevernamehere2812 I read about it in a 2018-2019 issue of game informer that had a a big dozen page thing on starwars games and I remember someone saying in an interview that they had to move plants to cover Force unleashed posters and that they DID have to remove a starkiller statue from Force unleashed 2 in lue of the maul and Talon ones. I think you are right that it was about the Maul game though, I still have the issue buried somewhere I might have to dig it out and double check.
As messy as this game was, I still found it enjoyable. Definitely a step down from the first game but by no means awful. I still wish we had got a third game where we took on that evil Starkiller clone. Maybe one day but doubtful.
They definitely let themselves open for a third game with Boba following them at the end but alas
I feel like we’d just get another disappointment.
ie: We’d get a flashy CGI trailer that only shows off the title of the game. Years go by, people get hyped, and then we realise after months of radio-silence that it got announced waaaaaaaay too early. Another year goes by and we get the news that the studio is closing down and the game is officially MIA. Sound familiar?
I would have LOVED to see Maris Brood as the sequel protagonist! It's such a damn shame the team was only given one year to make the sequel.
It'll always be in my head canon that that's Galen Marek in the second game and not a clone. It's more of Vader manipulating him to control him.
I am right there with you man. I think Vader just keeps wiping his memory every time he doesn't get the desired effect. Or maybe we start with the first time Vader was able to successfully bring Galen back to consciousness. Regardless Vader is a gaslighting monster.
I will always quote, "THEY WERE REAL TO ME" till the day I die. Love my boy Sam!
I wanna take Shepard to the cave of dank vibes and force visions.
I wonder what he'd see with his special eyes
@@exploding_puffins HIS BRAND, of course ✨
@@khanlusa
"My name is Commander Shepard, and this is the creepiest cave on Dagobah."
i love the maris brood idea. i also desperately wish star wars would use its incrediblely vast lore to explore different settings within the franchise. part of what i love about star wars is that it can fit all these different stories at different times and present them in a non linear way. the different aesthetics, struggles and politics of each era help keep stories fresh and branching out into more obscure time periods can only be good imo
Soon, Star Wars will be exploring the future after ST, and the very dawn of the Jedi as well. That should be quite interesting.
Oh, and the High Republic Era contains some excellent storylines
Wow. I had actually managed to forget they changed Korriban's name. That memory is back and thus I sigh.
Honestly i really quite love your "The Real Starkiller" version of the story. Having found you via your two "mature" horror game videos ive been quite enjoying binging a significant amount of your videos and have a particular love for these story board videos.
I agree with your take on the Star Destroyer Scene. It'd even link to the Obi-Wan power scale when Vader stops the Rebel carrier death on its tracks at takeoff with the Force. I still find the scene pretty cool in the game, and in the series it gave me the shivers. It's such an amazing concept that's barely shown, even after having as strong force users as Galen or Vader in games already.
Vader just stopping that ship and ripping it apart was literally so cool. I feel like it really fits him since he's kinda supposed to be the strongest Sith/Jedi. It's so raw
Ok hear me out right, the dialog in this game and the second one are both top tier.
SK: "You said you would stay away"
Vader the Villian: "I lied"
That is so Vader it hurts and Sam VA'ed his ass off for the games lol
Love the addition of Lana, the most lawful good Sith ever to exist
Same, I giggled with joy when he said it's her
Personally I feel star killer (Galen marek not the clone) should have never died in force unleashed one. I remember seeing a youtube comment of talking about how a great alternative wouldve been dor him to be defeated by locked away/put in carbonite aa Vader would feel is too valuable an asset to lose. Fast forward to a post episode 6 starwars where Luke and Kyle Katarn raid a top secret imperial base, thaw out Galen Marek and now he is working alongside the others to stabilize a galaxy. This way we could see Galen's journey as he struggles to let go of his past and eventually joins Luke's jedi order as a powerful ally. Oh what could have been.
Really appreciate the willingness to not only critique but put your own ideas on the line by revising the stories. I'm of the mind that every story has the chance to be stellar, and it's inspiring to see what could have been, or even what could be if someone ever takes up the narrative threads for themselves in their own narratives.
We really need more stories of more force users who don't fit into the binary black and white of the light and dark side. It lets them explore the nuance of the force and how both sides have their flaws. Hell something I always liked about old Star wars lore was that that the homeworld of the Jedi (and technically the Sith, or rather the dark side teachings that would inform the Sith order) had two moons, one that was strong in the dark and one in the light and, before these proto-jedi split into light and dark side users, if someone was found to be leaning too far to one side of the force they were sent to the moon of the opposing alignment for a time to even them back out.
I wholeheartedly agree. I really wish they'd recanonize Galen Marek, or at least reuse the idea of a super-powerful Force user who doesn't fit as a Jedi or Sith. Like, Vader's "training" for Starkiller basically just throwing him into life-or-death battles and forcing him to get stronger if he wanted to survive, so you could make a completely new character with the same "training" by just having a Force sensitive child on their way to Coruscant get stranded on some random death world like Dathomir, and then they grow up fighting for their life against whatever carnivorous wildlife inhabit the place. "Fear is the path to the dark side", so this kid would be close to the Dark Side from being a scared child in a hostile environment, which would also be why they always fight so fiercely and never hold anything back, but they'd never go all the way because all they have is that fear. By the time they grow up, they'd be a super strong, super violent, super ruthless Force wielding badass, but they wouldn't have a lightsaber. If you absolutely have to have them using a lightsaber, just have some random Sith sense their presence and come to investigate, and then get instantly destroyed, and then they keep the lightsaber and escape on their ship. Now they're the whole galaxy's problem, and the Jedi of the era have to put together a task force to hunt them down and do something about it. One or two of them think the kid can be saved, and eventually they're proven right, but we'd get a bunch of extremely over-the-top violent action scenes with space magic along the way.
Make it a miniseries and call it something like "Star Wars: Fear", or something like that.
The force is not supposed to be nuanced
@@arthurg.calixto3338Why not? Because something something someone in charge said so?
@@FelisImpurrator Because it makes no sense. Anakin is not supposed to be Thanos. The force is not a source of eternal conflict wishing to make harmony & greed and evil forever coexist.
@@arthurg.calixto3338 Congratulations on setting up an irrelevant strawman to knock down that has no relevance to the point being made.
Thank you for calling out how overly glorified the original trilogy has become these days.
I love the OT but lord there can always be too much of a good thing
@@khanlusa to be fair the biggest complaints about the original trilogy get completely dwarfed by both the prequels and sequels
@@bignoasted2701 Not that it doesn't make it all the more painful to wade through.
@@retrogamelover2012 id say the original trilogy was a masterpiece compared to the sequels.
Your second idea is a near perfect rewrite of The Force Unleashed II.
I loved both ideas you proposed for a story for TFU2, but you really won me over with the Odessen bit. I love the greyness of characters like Lana.
I can KIND of get the Dark Apprentice clone not doing anything cause Vader wasn't in any immediate danger
3:56 Did not expect to see that meme again
I will always love The Force Unleashed series for introducing Sam Whitwer into the universe. He cares so much and he's so talented.
Force Unleashed allowed Sam Witwer to walk so that he could absolutely sprint as Darth Maul.
The best way to bring him back to the light would be finding the ancient holocron of revan and teaching him the benefits of both sides and down sides
What if, Vader actually does walk away from Starkiller and that whole plot, because ya know... he's been found out. And instead the cloning plot was put in play by Palpatine, the guy who already has a known interest in cloning and in particular cloning force users and doubly in particular cloning force users so their essence can be transferred into said clone.
I doubt his transfer post deathstar tumble would be his very first experiment with the subject.
So he rolls starkillers clone progeny into the existing programs and sees some success. He then applies some nasty sith alchemy to tear Starkillers essence from the force and install it into a clone, but the results are less than perfect. The poverty character gets some memories emotions and connections but not enough to really be starkiller. And he struggles with identity and choice, drawn to what Starkiller knew and loved, drawn to his own needs and desires, and overall just resentful as hell that he's trapped in this hell where the closest thing he has to a life is what's left of someone else's choices. The fact that he is jot a complete incarnation of the deceased Starkiller is driven home by the appearance of the shambling incomplete clones, all holding some desperate tiny fragment of the man he isn't. There's some meaty existential and identity horror right there.
There is no perfect Starkiller clone, there can't be. But there is an unsettling implication for those of us familiar with the franchise, the uncomfortable thought that the likes of Quigon Obi-Wan Yoda and Anikin are not necessarily safe within the force, the twisted power of the sith, Palpatine specifically means that they are as vulnerable to his machinations as the living. It even imo adds some substance to the sequel films. Was Palpatine just faking the voice of Vader for Ben's benefit? Or was he twisting the man himself? Were Obi-Wan and Yoda quiet all those years for no reason? Or were they silenced by the risen dark lord?
Love these reviews , I always get annoyed at how other reviews ignore story
The interactive/gameplay and visual elements of video games are a key part of the media format, but a lot of them wouldn't be half as interesting without that world and story to get lost in
I've always felt like Force Unleashed had heaps of cool ideas and concepts, flubbed most of them and still ended up being interested and engaging, goes for both games. Messy is cerainly a fitting word for it.
I loved the ideas proposed in this video, especially the Maris being the focal character one! As stunning as Sam Witwer's performance is, can't find a soft spot for out boy Starkiller for some reason, but the draft with him was very compelling.
Also as an aside, thanks for this great reminder that there's a lot to appreciate about Star Wars.
Your conclusion is SO real. What captures my imagination about Star Wars isn't the individual stories but the sheer breadth of how many stories can fit inside its lore. Star Wars lore is insane! DO MORE WITH IT, COWARDS
Gotta say i wasnt expecting an *EPIC* level fanfic plot when i clicked but im auper entertained by it. I'm a sucker for the "brainwashed to be evil" trope so your vision of a What If? Force Unleashed sequel really moves me.
this is my new favorite channel for videogames story
Lana Beniko and Darth Marr are some of my favorite Star Wars characters.
Oh dear I sleep for a few videos and you are already at 30k, congratz^^ If ever you are considering it, looking at Knights of the Old Republic 1 and 2 could be pretty interesting - especially the second one, given its rushed development and having an entire mod that restores an entire planet of gameplay to it.
Glad of the surprise Lana Beniko mention, she's been one of my favourite characters since her introduction in Shadow of Revan
Feels like a Story Pente Patrol Star Wars would come up, as I like him this is my attempt of a compliment.
Yeah. i agree. Good ideas.
Something i thought of after listening is combining the two Ideas. Maris Brood and the Real Star killer ones.
Game opens with scared and lost Maris figuring things out and if we want to keep the connection to SWTOR perhaps gets to speak with Lana Beniko who helps her. Could be like 1-3 levels.
Then we swap to Star killer until the temple on the unnamed planet. the two have some chat about what happened and Star killer explains what's going on in the wider world. Maris wants to help against Vader who is, the ultimate reason why her previous master died.
Same as it goes until the Juno kidnapping, Maris and Star killer fight together against his clones and the HK droids. The Assault happens and Star killer together with Maris defeat Vader. Maris wants to kill him, overwhelmed with hatred for what he did and Star killer either talks her down or goes with it.
Dark ending being the killing of Vader. Turns out the Emperor is actually a scheming SOB, who knew, and had himself a star killer clone but also made sure to have him strong and ready to go.
Light ending. Both Maris and Star Killer, after calming down from the emotional fight that a middle ground between their teachings is the way to go. Emotions aren't bad but completely letting them rampant or suppressing them completely is. they support the rebel alliance as much as they can but instead of just fighting they know that both of them suffered and nearly turned into monsters not because they are inherently bad but isolation and silent suffering. Vowing to find all those force users currently being hurt and used and oppressed by the Empire that feel hopeless and alone.
And yeah, i fully agree with your closing statements. Kinda dislike the weird Sci-fi stasis that Star Wars suffers from. And since SW:TOR was brought up, i was always baffled when in that game they bring up czerka and how they are currently doing this revolutionary tech stuff. Like.. that really does not seem like a star wars thing. However i would like it to be. Disney has an opportunity here. Give us non-stagnant world ples.
As for a game to look at, Fable Series has a bunch of "choices" for whats moral and what isnt, Chaser is so agonizingly close to something good or Area 51 from 2005. A game that is completely lost to the world as far as i know. I never played more then the demo but it was wild. Perhaps content is there.
Here’s the thing with Czerka: When KOTOR 1 and 2 were made, there was ALOT of capitalist parody stuff going around - especially in videogames, like Ratchet and Clank.
But in those games, because Czerka is meant to be satire, all of their “revolutionary technology” is faulty/cheap and it’s a big, cartoonishly evil corporation that practices both kinds of slavery. And so it helps build the image of Czerka as being extra slimey and threatening - but in the same way that big corporate capitalism is, whereby it’s also highlighted by some pretty impressive levels of general incompetence. That’s Czerka.
SWTOR’s Czerka is almost none of those things. And the game just never seemed to know or understand what to do with Czerka. Like we got a couple of flashpoints about an experiment or two that went wrong? But that’s about it.
Hooooo! I was just getting antsy for an update. Timing couldn't be better!
Edit: Just shy of halfway through. Really like all the SWTOR inspiration!
That little Lana segment felt so in character. Your work as a writer really shined through, there.
Thank you that means a lot ❤❤
I personally prefer what George Lucas said that's Galen Marek was never killed and that he embraces the identity of starkiller and secretly helps with the rebellion
I personally had an idea for a Force Unleashed 3 game. A what if scenario with the tutorial being Anakin and Obi-Wan's duel on Mustafar. You play as Anakin and basically the story is you win against Obi-Wan and now serve Palpatine while gathering your forces in secret to overthrow him. It takes place over years, maybe Galen makes an appearance, but the main focus is on eventually tracking down Luke and Leia to bring them in as Vader's apprentices and usher in the Skywalker dynasty. I dunno how you might be able to make a "good" ending for such a game, but then again, just being able to play as an unapologetic bad guy would be cool too.
`You have a rare gift for the story,Sir
THNX
I'm glad I discovered this channel.
your ideas are fascinating, and I fondly remember these games as rather fun power fantasy
really wish there was more(/modern) takes on it (without the unbearable jankiness of trying to play it on PC)
Not sure about the melodrama at the end, but this is actually a really good idea for the sequel.
Although while watching this I had an idea of my own which keeps to the original starting point, with clone Galen being unstable and fleeing Vader to rejoin his old friends.
But his instability combined with various losses, such as Proxy and Juno dying pushes him towards the dark side, ending with him becoming a lone, broken and erratic Dark Jedi.
PLUS! He could disappear at the end due to just being insane, be absent for the trilogy, and return for a third game, likely as an antagonist and maybe with us hunting him as the perfect clone some time on.
It's amazing how well this story is with just a little fine tuning. My pitch for a sequel was way out there,; heavily inspired by Silent Hill 2 with Starkiller in a surreal landscape reliving past memories and fighting ancient Sith no longer alive. The idea hit me when meeting Ajunta Pul in KOTOR. What would it be like a lingering Force ghost to finally rejoin the light? I doubt Disney would ever make a Star Wars film this surreal but I can always hope.
My favourite personal anecdotal tiddy bitty about this game is that I rented it for 24 hours, back in the days when rental stores were a thing, and I finished it. Twice. I wasn't even trying to speed run it, the game is just that short. But also fun enough that was I was willing to do it twice in one day.
Honestly thanks to you I decided to grab the games on PC and go through the effort of making them playable. I dearly appreciate that, as the first game has been a massive nostalgia trip for me, as this was one of the first more "mature" games I was allowed to play as a wee lad.
The second game, (which i have yet to play again but I'll likely give it a go soon enough here), was just dumb fun for me. Loved playing it simply for how carnage I could create compared to the prior game, although as someone who now understand the lore of Star Wars as well as...general story beats, its a messy one plot wise as well. Still, love the game, and I love your hypothetical re-interpretations of how its plot could have been. More Old Republic stuff sounds amazing as someone who missed out on a LOT of those IP's set at that time when I was younger, and I'd love a chance to experience the setting with a modern take.
But again, thank you for putting in so much effort for your videos, they're always a blast to watch and listen to and I'm glad I found your channel a month ago or so. Keep on making quality stuff!
That description of the removal of the tracker implant sent a chill down my spine like full on gore in a star wars game outside of chopping off limbs would be crazy
Omg, have you played the Subnautica games? I would absolutely love to see an analysis on those games, and I think you'd really enjoy them!
I enjoyed this! I've been actually pondering a similar video, and this might finally give me the kick in the pants to put it together.
That said, I feel bad about how hurriedly Blackman had to write the actual game we got. He only had two weeks to write the entire script. Plus one of the team leads REALLY wanted to just keep following the Infinities route of the DLC of last game, but unfortunately was outvoted because they were given like 9 months total to put the whole game together. This was the straw that broke the camel's back too, because LucasArts KEPT DOING THIS TO THEIR STUDIO AND PARTNERS, acting like every game of any scale could just be made in a year's time.
"Not a great plan".gif
This is also why we never saw them revisit the cut multiplayer from the first game's LucasArts version, and why almost no new characters appear. For what it's worth, the Wii version does reveal that Maris might've originally reappeared thanks to some unlockable concept art (though it's a poor imitation of the main game, the Wii version features a variety of cut script elements and Dagobah being a real playable level), but her sequel design was definitely more Witchblade than actually humbled by her mistakes made during the first game.
Oh that timeframe hurts my soul
We’ll time to take as a sign to finished Endor with an upgraded starkiller and go back the og game wish me luck on unleashed difficulty. (Note) Number 1138 is a reference to George Lucas first movie THX 1138 that referenced in some other works in the series like in Andor.
Oh! That's neat :D
I knew someone else would catch that. :)
Don't know if I'm a little too late to throw in my two cents...
But I think that you could marry the two concepts.
Marris Brood is defending and attempting to liberate a world that is under Imperial control with Starkiller clones running around as minibosses.
Meanwhile, Galen Marek is following Maris as a force ghost, teaching and advising her where appropriate and the two of them growing as people together.
Maybe have a whole sequence about Maris claiming Starkiller's lightsaber, giving her the ability to switch between her gameplay centering on stealth to the combat heavy gameplay of the first game.
It could either be a super mode, a get-out-of-jail-free card, whatever.
And of course she would inherit memories from Galen, their bond allowing her to inherit more abilities and even convince Kota and Juno that she's an ally.
I absolutely love these games and wish there was just a little more to them.
Justice for Canon Starkiller.
As a massive can of the books and KOTOR I agree with your last points on how nowadays we'd not have gotten this kinda game.
Starting off strong with this one
Sorry for the long post.
So I did a recent playthrough of these games because the last time I did was about a decade ago at least. They were on sale for like 5 dollars in total and I scooped them up. What I came away with surprised me: I enjoyed The Force Unleashed II way more than the first game. It was really weird because I remember thinking that the first game was so good in so many ways but man I just kept liking it less and less. The game was shockingly clunky and the combat was infuriating. It was all about who stunned who first with no way to break out of being stun locked. As the game went on I found myself dreading some fights because I knew it was going to be a ridiculous stun fest.
Moving on to Force Unleashed II the game felt so much more smooth. The combat was much more slick and the game surprisingly looked really good. I don't know if it was just cause I was on pc but as I kept playing I was impressed. Especially with Kamino and all the rain and weather.
What was so disappointing was the quarter baked story. It was so underdone you can probably call it raw. It is so obvious the developers did not have time to do what they wanted to do and what we were left with is something that feels less like a part two and more like a part 1.5. I really wished they got their third game.
Oh and a little thing about Part 2 Starkiller: I am probably totally wrong but I had always felt that we were playing as the actual Starkiller who was brought back much in the same way Vader did before and he keeps wiping Galen's memories every time he fails. He is doing this, biding time until he completes the cloning process the way he wants it and keeps Galen alive because he needs more time to perfect that tech or to forgo the difficult process of trying to make a clone of a force sensitive and have his gaslit little Galen back. I do really like your idea of Vader viewing Galen like a kid he never had and I think that probably has some part in it. Vader is trying so desperately to have this one guy be his apprentice to what end? I dunno it's a thought (a lot of thoughts)
When you were reviewing the prototype series, you said you appreciated infamous more. I would love to see your retelling of the games stories and give some creative thoughts on how you would’ve written it.
Excellent video! I honestly love all three ideas as reworked concepts.
Also, I wish they would remake podracer!
I do have a soft spot for Podracer, I remember playing that and the Phantom Menace tie-in game. Oh! Also Super Bombad Racing for the PS2.
Those edits busting in out of nowhere have no business being this funny! I swear, I busted out laughing!
I see your point, and I raise you one: they should have done a multi-character story with converging plot-lines like they did in the Last of Us or the Arkham games... bad examples maybe but ykwim I hope.
Start as Starkiller and get that whole storyline chopped up with Maris Brood sprinkled in and maybe play as Kota for a chapter or two, perhaps one mission running around as Proxy for giggles. Way ahead of this games time and budget but brooo it would've been legendary.
Converging narratives? With multiple characters? Different timelines? All contributing to a single plot? Dude, Tribes Vengeance was doing that in 2003. 😂😂😂
So I'm sure I don't need to say this but since it hasn't been mentioned yet, FU2 was originally going to be different than what we got. But there was internal issues with the company, had to quickly remake a story and a game to go with it, and deal with people jumping ship. This was shortly before Disney bought SW.
To Vader's knowledge, he only had a son. He never knew Leia was Luke's sister until Return of the Jedi.
I really wish these games could somehow fit into the canon universe considering I'd love Ahsoka to meet Starkiller. Anakin and Vader's Apprentices who had vastly different journeys.
I also really agree with how this is a massive treasure trove of a series where it isn't fully used to its extents
I always wondered what a force user who was a sort of jack-of-all-trades in forms of combat would go like.
Maybe being like a former member of some kind of law enforcement, who was mainly trained in blasters and CQC techniques, who soon discovered of the type of corrupt and seedy underbelly the organisation had, with them learning of their force sensitivity being the sort of final nail on the coffin, in regards to leaving the place.
And so, basically went to train under the Jedi so that their newfound abilities could be put to use in what they would consider a force of good.
Possibly would end up being deemed a "grey" of sorts, when they see how stagnant the Jedi order has gotten and start to become a bit disillusioned by aspects of their philosophies, whilst also trying to keep themselves in check to avoid getting roped into the dark side (likely equating it to the galaxy's most addictive drug, back during training).
Could even be some interesting dialogue if they were to encounter a Sith, maybe even finding some way to coax them into fighting bare-handed, through something like reasoning with them that if they wanted to take their anger out on them, then surely they would get that release they yern for by beating them within an inch of their life, rather than just cutting them down with one strike.
Loved the first, and while the second felt a little short to me. I still loved it none the less.❤
I loved these games. They were, mostly, pretty fun hack and slash. In a world I loved.
Would love your take on Command and Conquer Red Alert 1-3.
I always loved The Force Unleashed 2, and really liked Clonekiller. Though I do think it is really, REALLY fucked that he just kinda...slides into the original Galen's relationship with Juno at the end when he is a DIFFERENT PERSON. Yes he has the memories and attachments, but he isn't Galen.
The game could have easily been about him learning to separate himself from the original more and focusing on the traits where he differs (Pretty sure it's noted that he's more snarky than the original, for example.)
I like the third idea simply because it is my absolute favorite edgy boy look out of all the possible skins in the games
I think your ideas are good. I also agree that TFU2 should have followed Maris Brood. The original concept art for the TFU project showed both a male and female protagonist. Looking at Brood's portrayal, it just seems obvious that is what the female protag evolved into. My idea does differ a bit from yours, though. In my idea, she actually wasn't honest with Starkiller about giving up the dark side, and she makes a living as a mysterious bounty hunter at the start of the game since she doesn't want to commit herself to anyone else.
Maris becomes the pupil of Arden Lyn, a former Follower of Palawa from the First Great Schism. Arden Lyn is a character from the maligned Masters of Teräs Käsi, but her story was filled out by the lore team in many ways after the fact. Now Arden is actually a pretty interesting, but forgotten, character. Maris is at first recruited by Arden when she is one of the Emperor's Hands.
As Maris fights alongside Arden, Arden tells her stories of the First Great Schism in the form of flashbacks where you play as Arden. These will also serve as tutorials where Maris learns Teräs Käsi moves from Arden, expanding Maris' powers. Between this and Maris' existing animal handling skills, the powers could be toned down a little bit without weakening Maris since she now has many more options. You could even construct Force-enhanced blades like the ones used in the Schism before the invention of lightsabers, offering more customization to your fighting style.
The two eventually join Demetrius Zaarin's coup against the Emperor, giving players a chance to fight against Imperials without actually joining the Rebellion. Eventually, you'd board the Majestic and fight with Arden and her other recruits against Sheev, and "win." The game leaves it open to question whether or not Sheev allowed himself to be captured just to torment Arden, who threatens his claim to know the oldest forgotten secrets of the Force. Of course, Vader and Maarek Stele disable the shuttle you are transporting the Emperor on, and during the boarding action, Palpatine ambushes Maris and Arden, driving them away. I think it would be dramatic if Arden died here, but the lore says that doesn't happen.
Anyway, I think this makes a really cool plot for the game that nicely weaves into gameplay improvements, and most of it is actually just synergizing with existing lore. You even get to see TIE Defenders kicking butt out the window during the finale!
6:46 I actually liked Forced Ubleashed 2 as it is; but I do admit this plot seems interesting and if we ever get a third Force Unleashed game, hopefully it focuses on Maris Brood.
Just discovered your channel yesterday and my force lord what a blast ! thx for your work you deserve more subscribers !
I would love to see you talk about the Infamous series since you did prototype ! Is it something you would be willing to do ?
Keep up !
It's my favourite series and something I plan to do as a special when I hit 100K
Loved the rewrite. Well done.
like the video, but the use of Interstellar as a polar opposite of Star Wars being "hard sci-fi" is extremely funny when Interstellar is a Spirit Halloween costume of science over the physical personification of love transcending all space and time. Star Trek would probably be more apropos imo
I'll be honest, I completely forget that part of it almost every time, RIP.
Talking about the star destroyer always felt like it missed the point.
Size matters not, remember?
Oh boy part 2 of Star wars and the tales of egdy magee.
Nah the idea of cloning was the best part of part 2.
And I would have preferred it over the ritual idea.
Tbh, I’m very much in the camp of “the cloning is contrived” especially because it’s built up as a VERY thinly veiled mystery over the course of the game - but the opening level makes it soooooooo obvious.
Whereas the ritual idea taps into some juicy Old Republic lore and the ritual idea allows the player to enjoy the sequence described on Odessan and we get to engage with this idea of a synthesis between the light and the dark - which is fundamentally interesting. (The main issue is that this entire thing is anachronistic, SWTOR didn’t exist yet and she’s very much leaning on SWTOR not KOTOR.)
@Nikelaos_Khristianos I think the connection between ep 2 and 3 and the ot as well as the connection to the train tribology would have been better. We have force clones in all of them and it would be very strange for vader not to consider cloning since he has been around clones so much.
Dark magic however has no representation I any movie.
However I agree that while the idea is good the execution was bad.
@@emilsinclair4190 I do hear where you’re coming from, but here’s a counterpoint that also comes up in the video: Star Wars games are at their best when they’re NOT trying to tie into the movies and reference the movies constantly. This is why Morgan references characters like the Bendu from Rebels in this video - it’s a totally unique entity - and it shows off the best parts of Clone Wars and Rebels, when stuff gets just a little weird.
Plus, classic example, Chris Avellone (who wrote KOTOR 2) famously liked Star Wars but hated the whole idea of “the Force.” Hence he wrote a character that embodied this ethos - Kreia - and she’s subsequently hailed as one of the best Star Wars characters ever written. The only film that played with this idea was the Last Jedi more than 10 years later. This point illustrates very elegantly that something set in Star Wars does not NEED to tie into the films in order to be good.
To this end, I would maintain that Star Wars games are at their best when they’re not trying themselves into the movies. Otherwise we end up with a Star Wars that cannot ever escape names like “Darth Vader” or “Luke Skywalker” and we end up stifling creativity, novelty and originality. Consider this.
(Separate point: What is the “Dark Side of the Force” if not a form of “dark magic?” In which case, the films are covered in this “dark magic.”)
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos Kreia my beloved ❤
@Nikelaos_Khristianos while I do see some of your points I have to disagree. I think that closeness to movies is irrelevant. The story and the mechanics are what makes or break a game.
Eaw for example is often seen as one of the best games and it closely ties in with the movies.
Sure. Some of the weirdness of the star wars and force lore can be very intresting. (Howeve I was never a fan of the bendu. The bend and the time travel temple were the worst parts of rebels imo).
But we have to accept that this is a sequel. A sequel that should feature the same main character. And that therefore has to deal with vade rand his motivations, abilities and skills.
So we need a way to justify playing as him. And if we look at it from an in universe perspective using sith magic seems a strange choice.
Vader has served along clones. So cloning would be an idea in his mind. On the other hand unlike his master vader was never described to be deep into the sith magic part of the force. So from an in universe perspective cloning makes more sense.
Sith magic However could be used as a plot point. Like a big power upgrade either the main character or some of his enemies get at a certain point of the story.
And I think the dark force powers can be separated into two groups of activities. One is direct. Fore lightnings, chokes or telekinesis. The other has a ritual like appearance to it. And vader was rarely described with the second kind. And in fact the second kind also kinda goes against his characterisation.
So using the second type would be very strange for vader.
However if the emperor would have tried to replace vader with starkiller a ritual would have made sense. The emperor trying to train a replacement for vader would also have made for an interesting second part.
ohh i'm very interested in this one. i've never played the force unleashed games but i'm a huge star wars fan and always heard about them. they tend to be hailed as some of the best star wars media but i always thought there was too much hype so i'm looking forward to finishing this.
(edit: nvm i'm watching the first video)
Personally, I do find that they’re overhyped as videogames - first and foremost, Starkiller just doesn’t control very nicely at all and even as a teenager I wasn’t blown away by them. Plus, there’s better Star Wars games out there - Jedi Knight, KOTOR, Empire at War, Galactic Battlegrounds, Republic Commando, etc.
Secondly, there’s also better Star Wars media out there in all honesty. They were cool and novel for the time, but I’m definitely in the camp that believes that they don’t hold up very well. Especially as action games because they weren’t that great for the time anyway - they existed in a world that already had Devil May Cry 4, God of War 3 AND Bayonetta. This game didn’t even have a true lock on.
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos yeah, i still need to play them (or watch these videos) but they always gave me the impression of being too overhyped. i'm not saying they're bad, but a lot of people are nostalgic for them, and nostalgia can be a hell of a drug. it also doesn't help that most of its fans seem to ignore over-the-top, op uses of the force that they give other star wars media shit for including (and such double standards are often applied to characters that aren't white men too).
but tbh i'm a newbie when it comes to star wars games, i've only really played swtor and jedi: fallen order (still finishing the second one so i can play survivor later)
@@AlexMartinez-nn2cm New to Star Wars games? OK, I’m guessing you have a PC if you’ve played SWTOR. But dude, seriously, if you don’t mind playing older games there’s a tonne of Star Wars from before 2010 that are absolutely worth playing today. My advice is always to start with Knights of the Old Republic and its sequel - realise they’re the pinnacle (OK, I’m definitely biased) - and then go down from there. 😂
Republic Commando still holds up incredibly well, if you like FPS (apart from the last level.) The Jedi Knight games are definitely worth trying - especially Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy (they’re the precursors to Jedi Survivor.) There’s also quite a few strategy games like Empire at War (the space battles!) and Galactic Battlegrounds (it’s an Age of Empires clone, but the Expanding Fronts mod is gold.) That should get you going. 😁 Just play what you like and ignore what you don’t like.
@@Nikelaos_Khristianos I've actually been meaning to play KOTOR for the longest time, but the game keeps having this monitor aspect rating bug in my PC that makes it almost unplayable. I'm gonna try and see if I can fix it but if I can't I'll just get it for my Xbox. A lot of SWTOR lore ties directly to KOTOR, so I'm excited to dive into it. Thank you for the other recommendations too!
how do you fight the clones in the other versions of the game that don't have the force sight power ( haven't played the pc version of either unleashed game )
God Lana Beniko, love her so much, best girl hands down
I really want a M rated Darth Vader game
"He busts"😂
oki the bust got me u earn a subba my mans
Any particular reason why you didn’t do a dedicated video for TFU 2?
Lana would be a nice wink towards SWTOR, I'm more of a Marr guy myself.
Any plans on playing through the Fable games? All 3 are mildly interesting and enjoyable games imo, and theres supposedly a remake/reboot on the way
I do actually have a fondness for the first Fable but I do not know how to get my hands on the second game since they never released it on PC.
@@khanlusa I think you might be able to "stream" it to your pc through Xbox's Cloud gaming, but I'm not sure since I havent tried it myself
I don't know anything about Lana beyond what you just told me, but as one of the three people who liked Vergere in the EU, I love her already.
KOTOR II is my favorite Star War because of all the gray choices. And the idea that the Jedi Order was basically rebuilt single-handedly by someone so traumatized she gave the Force itself PTSD, and yet managed to help that many people with their problems... Chef kiss.
Did you ever play the Legacy of Kain series? I'm curious your thoughts on them
I did not
LucasArts was in the process of falling apart during the development of this game and the game sadly suffered for this.
Idc what people say, I fucking love TFU II and I always will.
When you mention how people think the OT are best everything after is not as good it seemed you alluded to liking a property not as appreciated for not being in OT and I was hoping you'd elaborate on that?
I like the Original Trilogy films well enough, but I grew up at the time the prequel trilogy was coming out. It obviously has its flaws but I appreciate that it was a complete story, it knew what it was leading to and planned accordingly, and Revenge of the Sith is my absolute favourite of the lot, Order 66 kills me every time. I enjoyed the Force Awakens and parts of the Last Jedi but had my issues with it, and I feel like TROS would have stuck the landing had they just committed to Kylo Ren being the ultimate villain and Rey needing to stop him.
I very much enjoyed the Clone Wars series for shedding more light on the lesser seen tensions and issues of that time period, the slow, uncomfortable shift of the Republic into the Empire, Kamino becoming less of a home and more of a thinly veiled prison to the clones, the Jedi becoming more and more complicit in the Republic's less savoury actions.
Rebels was also super enjoyable to me and I especially loved the introduction of Bendu as a less black and white approach to the Force as that is one of my biggest gripes.
The new shows and movies have their flaws, absolutely, but I think a lot of the love and praise for the OT comes from nostalgia and not wanting things to change, feeling like Your Thing is being taken away from you and these new fans just don't understand Star Wars, not "really."
/At the same time/ as I said, Disney might be the right company to helm Star Wars financially, but they've shown with the handling of the sequel trilogy and their throwing out of the old EU to build up their own that this was purely a cold, calculated bid to print money. Which is expected, Disney is a massive corporation, I think I just expected that after the money they spent acquiring it they would ensure there was at least a complete outline of each movie in the sequel trilogy before hitting the green light.
It's frustrating to see how Disney is doing things, I just also find it frustrating when other fans act like there's nothing good outside the OT.
@@khanlusa honestly fair enough I'm in a similar boat of growing up with the prequels having love for em despite their issues. That being said while I initially liked TFA that changed with time and I wasn't a huge fan of anything post DIsney. I get that people are biased in some cases of nostalgia but considering it's for one of if not the most iconic trilogy of all times it just seemed weird to me. However, I do get a little annoyed with people having strong statements of Star Wars when the only way they experienced it just the main line movies cause IMO the best stories come from the games like SWTOR and my personal goat KOTOR 2 with Kreia. Anyway thanks for the elaboration I'm new to your vids have a been binging so if these opinions are commonly known my b.
@@idrinkcofe No worries, it's worth asking just in case 👌
Joseph Campbell level!
I only have the Wii versions of these games, I really should try to find a PS3 to play the real versions.
Let me subject you to Ixion which may require multiple attempts to get even one ending. There are actually a good number with I think a purely bad ending too. But now for the proper ending there's several of them. It's a mixture of various conditions that are needed such as rescuing a dog or getting a certain AI of sorts. For the purpose of making a video you might want to turn the difficulty way down as it's incredibly hard otherwise. And by hard I mean you might be swearing like a sailor out of frustration. But hey, it has a top notch soundtrack at least.
WHAT DO YOU MEAN THEY RENAMED KORRIBAN, fuck i hate disney, anything they cant outright destroy they'll change out of spite, i havent had anything to do with star wars since i saw rise of palpatine opening night so anything else they've ruined is news to me
It was actually George Lucas who wanted Korriban to be renamed Moraband
I find it's lack of coherent lore disturbing 😂. I actually liked these games.
I'd play the shit out of this version of TFU2.
The sequel is terrible, but it also begs the obvious question about WHY the Clone Wars werent about insane cloned Jedi
So he talks to the force ghost of Lana Beniko??
Not gonna lie I have zero interest in this franchise, but I mainly watch the video. Just listen to your rambling
Crysis 3 when
CRYSIS 3 WHEN?
WORKING ON IT 😭
@@khanlusa hehe
Yoooooooo Odessen!!!!!!!! And MY WIFE!!!! MY WIFE!!!! MY WIFE!!! AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
No notes, you’re perfect, keep it up 😊
LANA BENIKO SWEEEEEP 🤩