The major problem for greeks and oranos is that Eggy and Norse do not have their old weaknesses anymore. Think about each pantheon general advantages. Norse have many advantages and all the disadvantages that existed to "counter / balanced" them were removed on Retold. - Oxcart now can be build anywhere by vills; - vills can be converted and kill raiding units; - they can build any and everywhere on the map without risks; - easy to spam both heroes and myth units; - really "complete" army with strong options to counter anything at any age. - 1 god can raid and recover HP, 1 can raid and gain a free MU; - a special villager that cost gold and collect it faster than anyother; - easy side building. etc.. Eggy have like 5 strong unique advantages (free buildings; free watchtower upgrade; mercs; best siege unit by far; etc) as well and now, not only they do not even struggle to fight in classical age anymore, they can spam barracks and have an easy time producing 3 good units to counter basically everything as well (excellent cost efficiency).. Atty are absurdly easy to manage eco and military comp; Then you have greeks, with their good army that do not excel comparing to others anymore, are limited to 4 heroes, need to put vills on temple to get favor, etc... Greeks are decent by itself, the problem is that all other civs have many advantages if you are playing someone of your skill level..
Awsome video with great points, i would like to see a video from you explaining a little the chinese aswell, i mean how they were in the previous game and explaining some of their godpowers maybe.
Very interesting to have the point of view of a top player . If i was doing a tier list in my Elo 1200 i will put no contest loki s+++ Follow by s tier thor /isis /freyr /odin Very interesting that you put thor nulber one . Everyone know to rush double tc is very strong agains him . Personaly i main thor znd freyr and i find imposible to play loki and i still don't understand what i'am doing wrong the counter bonus is way to strong in my opinion . Thank you for the video keep continu to help our community magic
thor is great, no doubt about it, but in order for him to get those extra dwarves, he does have to advance late and it leaves room for pressure. and you've said yourself, towers suck people say all the time that he can "just spam dwarven gold mine" but let's be honest. it's not spammable until late game unless you want to sacrifice your upgrades and myth units which is suicide stop sitting in your base and go attack him
In content. Im honestly just happy to have good aom stuff from someone who cares about the game. Now if you're goal is to make it a source of income, its not going to work as you would need to trend chase far more. Personally i say just do what you enjoy and im happy to swing by when i find things i want to watch.
Cool to hear your opinions so early after the patch dropped! Do you think there's a good chance your opinions will adjust as time goes on, but within the current patch? It might be cool to see a "what i thought then vs. what i think now" type video in a few weeks, if you feel like your views have changed enough by then! At least from the perspective of a lower player, i'm sure it would be interesting to see a bit how you look at things and think about things and adjust your view with new experiences 🤓
Great video! As an Atlantean player, I think this analysis is pretty spot on. I feel like they may have overnerfed Sky Passage a bit-it’s much harder to take full advantage of Oranos’ bonuses compared to Kronos or Gaia. When playing Oranos, it seems you are forced to somewhat adopt an aggressive playstyle, leveraging the 10% infantry movement speed bonus and Shockwave to pull off effective raids and compensate for the slight economic disadvantage compared to the other Civs (since Oranos only grants extra favor generation). You could go for Theft of Fire and attempt an economic boom, but with that playstyle, Kronos would likely perform better due to his 25% faster build times, making it almost impossible to stop a second Town Center. For Kronos, one of his biggest weaknesses is the lack of “weightless” Mace or Bite of the Shark. Facing Norse-particularly Loki or Odin-is rough when they use Jarls with the Ring Giver tech. Jarls shred Prometheans and trade decently against Katapeltes, leaving you with no strong front line options until Mythic Age (Fanatics), which many games don’t even reach. Also it feels pretty awful that the Destroyer is useless against Norse since they don't really deal pierce damage. So it takes forever to take down buildings... zzz. If in the last patch the general consensus was that the Egyptian vs Norse match up is borderline unplayable for Norse, it certainly feel like in this patch the Norse vs Atlantean match-up is unplayable for Atlantean (with the exception of Gaia). Ah, I should've prefaced with Kronos, that I am not running the rush build, maybe the Norse matchup is a bit more bearable when going for that approach? But yeah just my early impressions of the patch.
Great analysis, I’ve been playing as Gaia the last 100 games and it’s so incredibly difficult to win against Norse on higher ELO, I can’t imagine how it is for Kronos or Oranos. Yesterday, I had my first victory against a Loki player and it made my entire day. Usually I end up very annoyed as I get my ass whooped and I’m not even sure what I could’ve done differently haha
@@sebastianheselaars4315 Yeah, I think as Gaia you have better odds because you can go Oceanus without sacrificing any economic advantage. The biggest issue, in my opinion, are the Jarls. Cavalry units tend to have lower hack armor, so typically, even if you just build standard infantry like Murmillos, you'd have no problem fending them off. But Jarls are different-they have a lot of HP and higher hack armor compared to other cavalry units. In that sense, they're somewhat similar to Hetairoi, where, without specialized counter-cavalry infantry, you end up losing the battle. Poseidon only gains access to them in Mythic, so it’s not much of a concern there. For the Norse, though, their enhanced cavalry units become available in Heroic as part of a natural progression path-like Odin going from Freya to Njord. Atlanteans just don’t have a solid answer to that, especially Kronos without the Katapeltes upgrade. Other civilizations, like Egypt, have spearmen and camel riders, while the Greeks have podromos and hoplites.
I just got back into RTS games. I played Warcraft and aoe when I was a child but didnt know how to actually play. Love your content brother keep up the good work. The video on micro and building defensely changed my game 💪
I only play Oranos, and I came to believe he was OP, since I destroy all my friends with him easily. Glad to see its definitely not due to civ balance issue :D
Very much agreed! Wonder what you say to the game of Kvothhh vs recon (gaia vs thor) that boit posted to make a point. He says, that one can easily fast expand against Thor since thor is so slow T2 because of upgrades. My opinion is, that Thor still is better than two base, but i wanna have your opinion on that top level game.
Im going to argure greeks are at least A tier. I have no basis for this beyond me liking to play them and will happily bury my head in a bee nest to avoid hearing your logical and well reasoned counter arguments. In seriousness, thanks for the breakdown. Haven't really played the Norse outside the campaigns and a few testing games so maybe i should try them a bit.
Do you think they’ll ever add additional heroes to Greeks? the limit of 4 even if they are strong seems easily targetable and can spiral out of control. Another question is when do people use Egyptian mercs? Seen them but they feel sorta there but not worth
Gaia needed Implode to stay strong. I think it was already not great after the first nerf, but now it will be the worst destructive Mythic age GP in the game. Gaia can't rely on Dryads and bite of the shark to win games. And forget how great the armory upgrades are for Thor. The fact that a civ with infinite gold can train all of their villagers with gold is insanely OP. Easily number 1 god.
I’ve been going for the Titarian gate lately with Gaia. It’s a fun deviation. The great benefit is that it has a tech which strengthens myth units, including dryads. It makes them really good, including the bird. If the opponent don’t target them down, they are going to have a difficult time
hi magic i think there is no more C tier and you under estimate attlantean u can see how Kvoth or recon use OUranos and gaia i think gaia is S tier too and poseidon and ouranosare A tier
You seem like a very genuine person Magic and I think that’s why your channel has been successful. I agree with your tier list, I’d personally put Zeus over Poseidon. I also agree that the game is well balanced currently. Yes, there are a couple very bad match ups, but generally it seems like an ok current state. The only thing I’d whelm down are the Egyptian mythic age god powers. They give a too huge power spike when combined with classical and / or heroic god powers. I’d also still lower the influence of god powers like bronze, lightning storm and flaming weapons, but I’m not sure if that’s a general consensus
Greeks are nerfed at every patches since the begining, all the other are buffed, now you have Greeks that are ridiculously weak compared to the others ... even Myrmidon is not the best infantry unit anymore, and Belerophon has been nerfed and nerfed in all the possible way ... Restauration is now nerfed, Bronze is nerfed ... wtf it is becoming unplayable
I only just started, looked at your old tier list.. started to learn Kronos because I liked him as a kid, then after I get it all set up with keybinds etc, I see this, and Kronos is the lowest of the low :(
don't let this sway you! this tier list is mostly focused for the very highest level of play, at the mid levels the game is vastly different, play what suits your playstyle, that's what will get you the best results
I think odin is the strongest god in norse wars on open land maps, especially in this patch. The food bonus giving extra RC quickly, then valks, seems to be something that's very difficult to content with. RC are king in the norse wars, as whoever can keep MU and TA alive do well, and RC + valks prevent the opponent from doing that. When mobility is important on those open maps, balling trolls doesn't quite do it. But Odin is the weakest norse against non-norse. So it makes for some interesting tourney drafting. What do you think? Note doesn't apply to closed maps where Thor/Freyr can wall and secure 2nd gold that way.
The major problem for greeks and oranos is that Eggy and Norse do not have their old weaknesses anymore. Think about each pantheon general advantages. Norse have many advantages and all the disadvantages that existed to "counter / balanced" them were removed on Retold.
- Oxcart now can be build anywhere by vills;
- vills can be converted and kill raiding units;
- they can build any and everywhere on the map without risks;
- easy to spam both heroes and myth units;
- really "complete" army with strong options to counter anything at any age.
- 1 god can raid and recover HP, 1 can raid and gain a free MU;
- a special villager that cost gold and collect it faster than anyother;
- easy side building.
etc..
Eggy have like 5 strong unique advantages (free buildings; free watchtower upgrade; mercs; best siege unit by far; etc) as well and now, not only they do not even struggle to fight in classical age anymore, they can spam barracks and have an easy time producing 3 good units to counter basically everything as well (excellent cost efficiency)..
Atty are absurdly easy to manage eco and military comp;
Then you have greeks, with their good army that do not excel comparing to others anymore, are limited to 4 heroes, need to put vills on temple to get favor, etc... Greeks are decent by itself, the problem is that all other civs have many advantages if you are playing someone of your skill level..
Absolutely agree!
Is because of every update is a nerf to them lol
@@Spiror poor Athena, cant scape a patch without a Nerf 😂
excellent analysis! But I don't know why they did this
"The game is pretty well balanced right now"
...the future chinese pantheon: allow us to introduce ourselves
hah trueeee
Just love every analysis and commentary, amazing to have a real pro giving input
For the algo.
my man
Thank you for another great video! Leaving a comment to help Boost the video 🫡
You're the best!
I’m a simple man. I see a tier list and I click.
:D
Awsome video with great points, i would like to see a video from you explaining a little the chinese aswell, i mean how they were in the previous game and explaining some of their godpowers maybe.
I unfortunately didn’t play much of extended edition so my knowledge of Chinese is quite limited :(
Great video. Thanks Magic!
Very interesting to have the point of view of a top player .
If i was doing a tier list in my Elo 1200 i will put no contest loki s+++
Follow by s tier thor /isis /freyr /odin
Very interesting that you put thor nulber one .
Everyone know to rush double tc is very strong agains him . Personaly i main thor znd freyr and i find imposible to play loki and i still don't understand what i'am doing wrong the counter bonus is way to strong in my opinion .
Thank you for the video keep continu to help our community magic
Have been waiting for this one!
thor is great, no doubt about it, but in order for him to get those extra dwarves, he does have to advance late and it leaves room for pressure. and you've said yourself, towers suck
people say all the time that he can "just spam dwarven gold mine" but let's be honest. it's not spammable until late game unless you want to sacrifice your upgrades and myth units which is suicide
stop sitting in your base and go attack him
In content. Im honestly just happy to have good aom stuff from someone who cares about the game. Now if you're goal is to make it a source of income, its not going to work as you would need to trend chase far more. Personally i say just do what you enjoy and im happy to swing by when i find things i want to watch.
I liked your videos that focused on a sing myth unit. It would be cool to see another one. Maybe the colossus?
Sure when I get a chance I plan do it again
Cool to hear your opinions so early after the patch dropped!
Do you think there's a good chance your opinions will adjust as time goes on, but within the current patch?
It might be cool to see a "what i thought then vs. what i think now" type video in a few weeks, if you feel like your views have changed enough by then!
At least from the perspective of a lower player, i'm sure it would be interesting to see a bit how you look at things and think about things and adjust your view with new experiences 🤓
that's a great idea for a video! they will definitely change, nobody can predict the future!
Well put video, thank you for sharing
Great video!
As an Atlantean player, I think this analysis is pretty spot on.
I feel like they may have overnerfed Sky Passage a bit-it’s much harder to take full advantage of Oranos’ bonuses compared to Kronos or Gaia. When playing Oranos, it seems you are forced to somewhat adopt an aggressive playstyle, leveraging the 10% infantry movement speed bonus and Shockwave to pull off effective raids and compensate for the slight economic disadvantage compared to the other Civs (since Oranos only grants extra favor generation).
You could go for Theft of Fire and attempt an economic boom, but with that playstyle, Kronos would likely perform better due to his 25% faster build times, making it almost impossible to stop a second Town Center.
For Kronos, one of his biggest weaknesses is the lack of “weightless” Mace or Bite of the Shark. Facing Norse-particularly Loki or Odin-is rough when they use Jarls with the Ring Giver tech. Jarls shred Prometheans and trade decently against Katapeltes, leaving you with no strong front line options until Mythic Age (Fanatics), which many games don’t even reach. Also it feels pretty awful that the Destroyer is useless against Norse since they don't really deal pierce damage. So it takes forever to take down buildings... zzz.
If in the last patch the general consensus was that the Egyptian vs Norse match up is borderline unplayable for Norse, it certainly feel like in this patch the Norse vs Atlantean match-up is unplayable for Atlantean (with the exception of Gaia).
Ah, I should've prefaced with Kronos, that I am not running the rush build, maybe the Norse matchup is a bit more bearable when going for that approach?
But yeah just my early impressions of the patch.
thanks for your thoughts!
Great analysis, I’ve been playing as Gaia the last 100 games and it’s so incredibly difficult to win against Norse on higher ELO, I can’t imagine how it is for Kronos or Oranos. Yesterday, I had my first victory against a Loki player and it made my entire day. Usually I end up very annoyed as I get my ass whooped and I’m not even sure what I could’ve done differently haha
@@sebastianheselaars4315
Yeah, I think as Gaia you have better odds because you can go Oceanus without sacrificing any economic advantage.
The biggest issue, in my opinion, are the Jarls. Cavalry units tend to have lower hack armor, so typically, even if you just build standard infantry like Murmillos, you'd have no problem fending them off. But Jarls are different-they have a lot of HP and higher hack armor compared to other cavalry units. In that sense, they're somewhat similar to Hetairoi, where, without specialized counter-cavalry infantry, you end up losing the battle.
Poseidon only gains access to them in Mythic, so it’s not much of a concern there. For the Norse, though, their enhanced cavalry units become available in Heroic as part of a natural progression path-like Odin going from Freya to Njord.
Atlanteans just don’t have a solid answer to that, especially Kronos without the Katapeltes upgrade. Other civilizations, like Egypt, have spearmen and camel riders, while the Greeks have podromos and hoplites.
I’ve been playing Gaia for a while now and it’s incredible how bad of a match up the Norse are against him
Regarding content, i think twist videos as well as unit explanation videos are really fun!!
I think thor is a really fun unique god.
Kinda sad to see Greeks got nerfed super fast at launch and are now sitting in lowish tiers
I just got back into RTS games. I played Warcraft and aoe when I was a child but didnt know how to actually play. Love your content brother keep up the good work. The video on micro and building defensely changed my game 💪
glad to hear !! thanks
Great video!
I only play Oranos, and I came to believe he was OP, since I destroy all my friends with him easily. Glad to see its definitely not due to civ balance issue :D
Thor is really good , Norse takes a bit more skill but thors power level is insanely high
I would like to know how to beat Zeus as Odin, I dont know how I beat Hop+Toxotes without having forsetti.
ill try to post a game for you soon
Buff my boi Oranos
He does not deserve this treatment
Very much agreed!
Wonder what you say to the game of Kvothhh vs recon (gaia vs thor) that boit posted to make a point.
He says, that one can easily fast expand against Thor since thor is so slow T2 because of upgrades.
My opinion is, that Thor still is better than two base, but i wanna have your opinion on that top level game.
I’ve not watched it yet, will have to see!
Im going to argure greeks are at least A tier. I have no basis for this beyond me liking to play them and will happily bury my head in a bee nest to avoid hearing your logical and well reasoned counter arguments. In seriousness, thanks for the breakdown. Haven't really played the Norse outside the campaigns and a few testing games so maybe i should try them a bit.
Do you think they’ll ever add additional heroes to Greeks? the limit of 4 even if they are strong seems easily targetable and can spiral out of control. Another question is when do people use Egyptian mercs? Seen them but they feel sorta there but not worth
Yeah mercs don’t feel so great atm, probably best to use em when you have tons of gold
Gaia needed Implode to stay strong. I think it was already not great after the first nerf, but now it will be the worst destructive Mythic age GP in the game. Gaia can't rely on Dryads and bite of the shark to win games.
And forget how great the armory upgrades are for Thor. The fact that a civ with infinite gold can train all of their villagers with gold is insanely OP. Easily number 1 god.
I’ve been going for the Titarian gate lately with Gaia. It’s a fun deviation. The great benefit is that it has a tech which strengthens myth units, including dryads. It makes them really good, including the bird. If the opponent don’t target them down, they are going to have a difficult time
@sebastianheselaars4315 amazing tip 👌
pog
Thank you for the Vid! What do you think about team games god tier list? It change so much or is nearly this one?
I don’t play much team games but I heard Norse are the best there
hi magic i think there is no more C tier and you under estimate attlantean u can see how Kvoth or recon use OUranos and gaia i think gaia is S tier too and poseidon and ouranosare A tier
Ra was S Tier back in the very old days. And Ra will remain S tier.
You seem like a very genuine person Magic and I think that’s why your channel has been successful. I agree with your tier list, I’d personally put Zeus over Poseidon. I also agree that the game is well balanced currently. Yes, there are a couple very bad match ups, but generally it seems like an ok current state. The only thing I’d whelm down are the Egyptian mythic age god powers. They give a too huge power spike when combined with classical and / or heroic god powers. I’d also still lower the influence of god powers like bronze, lightning storm and flaming weapons, but I’m not sure if that’s a general consensus
So... Insread of ra ultimate guide, we go with thor?
Thor is the man!
Cinema
make oranos great again
IS not Ra better than ISIS? I mean priest can boost all and pharao boost all things around with 1 monnument
I bet Loki is the most powerful god. Aside from that I think your list is okay.
Thor enjoyers rejoice!
Greeks are nerfed at every patches since the begining, all the other are buffed, now you have Greeks that are ridiculously weak compared to the others ... even Myrmidon is not the best infantry unit anymore, and Belerophon has been nerfed and nerfed in all the possible way ... Restauration is now nerfed, Bronze is nerfed ... wtf it is becoming unplayable
It’s not completely terrible, they’re still ok and you can definitely win with them !
@@IamMagicAOM I hope so, but still they have to buff them to balance now :/
I only just started, looked at your old tier list.. started to learn Kronos because I liked him as a kid, then after I get it all set up with keybinds etc, I see this, and Kronos is the lowest of the low :(
don't let this sway you! this tier list is mostly focused for the very highest level of play, at the mid levels the game is vastly different, play what suits your playstyle, that's what will get you the best results
Tu vas y arriver et ça surprendra d’autant plus les adversaires!
Urano is the weakest good right now
I think odin is the strongest god in norse wars on open land maps, especially in this patch. The food bonus giving extra RC quickly, then valks, seems to be something that's very difficult to content with. RC are king in the norse wars, as whoever can keep MU and TA alive do well, and RC + valks prevent the opponent from doing that. When mobility is important on those open maps, balling trolls doesn't quite do it. But Odin is the weakest norse against non-norse. So it makes for some interesting tourney drafting. What do you think? Note doesn't apply to closed maps where Thor/Freyr can wall and secure 2nd gold that way.
greeks fell off