When I moved to Utah in 1960, I met a white couple attending BYU who were not Mormon, but did have an eye-opening Mormon experience. They often invited fellow students to their apartment for religious discussions. One day the land lady barred their way to their apartment with a broom in her hands. She saw a black student in the group and did not want him sitting on her furniture. This black man was a Panamanian Mormon. She had no problem with a white non-Mormon touching her furniture, but a black Mormon? This is an example of how racism went deep in Utah Mormons.
I was at the post office in Seattle in the 1990s. We bought stamps and the only ones left were of Black leaders. We thought they were cool. A White woman and her daughter walked in and asked if we had an extra stamp for their letter to a relative. I showed her the stamps. She totally reeled and acted like she couldn't possibly put that stamp on the letter to her relative. Crazy.
@@sr2291 what an example for your kid "family values"?!?! . Not related, but After WWII when Germany was broke, they had a tremendous surplus of hitler stamps and still used those for almost 2 years in some areas.
Latter Day Saint Church Leaders will not take responsibility for anything --- so, yes, they have been willing to throw mormon god under the bus since the beginning.
@@sgee-vc1hz they have an excuse for everything. And when caught and called out on what they publish, they rewrite it and call it a "grammatical correction". They're so brainwash twisted that they ALL have the right to lie compulsively and because they are gods headed to their own planet, that whatever lies they spew at a break neck pace, becomes truth because THEY SAID SO. It's truly a very sad but definitely evil mindset. And when called out in lying, they're taught to cup their ear in hand and say, "Did hear that? I feel inspired". It's truly psychotic EVIL!!!!!!
Entire towns in Idaho and Utah STILL are segregated. They intimidate any and all ethnic people that even stop to get gass simply passing through. I know. I live here. It's so so sad.
I was a mormon in Austria for my whole life - quit after 63 years because of their blatant hypocrazy ... don`t want to be associated to that cult any longer. In my opinon now I believe / it seems to me that EVERY organised religion is just about power and therefore EVERYTHING Jesus did NOT STAND FOR.
Such a mean spirited church, even when I was in it , I was blind to lots of things, I feel accountable at the time I was in it, its been 60 plus years , an glad to have left.
I find the church embarrassing I guess you could add other church's. But my experience in the LDS church and leaders supposedly (prophets) brain wash members to deny their true selves.
The Green book was NOT published by the Chamber of Commerce! They were published by Victor H Green in New York. He was a former postal worker who collected information from other postal workers and printed the information in his self-published magazine.
@@crystalwilcox1486Elder Christopherson, an Apostle gave a talk a few years ago about how a prophet is only a prophet when they act as such. This is a quote from Brigham Young. He said that prophets, if they are not in tune with the spirit, can say things that are not true. Leaders have said stuff like this since the early days of the church, but they are now bringing attention to these old teachings because it is extremely obvious now that the leaders were wrong.
@ericseamons9982 If not in tune with the spirit, then are they truly prophets and seers ? People have a tendency to believe the title instead of relying on their innate ability to discern truth from falsehood. Every religion has the issue of "fallen" leaders. But they also have leaders that tend to color doctrine based upon personal opinion. That is what makes us human... imperfect beings. There is also a tendency to make excuses for mistakes made instead of accountability and ownership. Prophets and seers are fallible just like everyone else.
The LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated that Blacks would never hold the priesthood during his lifetime. They did in 1978 and McConkie later died in 1985.
Then after the ban was lifted, he said this, “Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world.” In other words, forget all the damage I’ve done to understanding races, forget all the biases and prejudices I’ve helped millions of Mormon increase, forget that I poisoned the discourse for the last 30 years. Yes, since I have changed you must, like good sheep, change with me.
Marian Anderson was a friend of Mrs. Roosevelt. Mrs. Roosevelt quit the DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution) when they wouldn’t let her sing. She then held a special concert for her at the Lincoln Memorial. If Mrs. Roosevelt figured it out, what about this so called prophets and revelators?
My super nice father in law told me black slaves were lucky as they were able to get a free ride to America. He is simultaneously the most loving person I’ve ever met AND the most racist man I’ve ever met. Perplexing.
Christ was not white! According the church definition of Canaanite, they are black. Three Gentile women in the Matthew genealogy of Christ are Canaanite: Tamar, Rahab, and possibly Bathsheba since her husband was Hittite which is Canaanite…the whole one drop rule means Christ could not be our “great high priest”!
For a church that has Jesus Christ in its name it sure doesn't act christlike. Did Jesus practice segregation? A God that believes in segregation could surely not be my God
The church used the Bible to justify the segregation. The apostles were not allowed to teach the Gentiles the gospel until after Jesus’s ascension to heaven. That is what we were taught growing up.
I am really enjoying this series. I had to pause to post this comment. If the "cursed" people would eventually turn white, if they were obedient and righteous enough, then wouldn't that blond haired, blue eyed, fair completed student of Banian's prove the point? If that student did have African ancestry, but now presented as white, would it be fair to argue that his particular "curse" was lifted?
13:53 Is this the same Marian Anderson that was refused performance at Constitution Hall by the DAR in 1939 so Eleanor Roosevelt organized a concert for her on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial?
Were there any racially restrictive covenants recorded on post World War II housing in Utah? I learned by reading Richard Rothstein's book, Color of Law, that the federal government and FHA would only fund housing developments that recorded "Caucasians only" restrictive covenants - this applied not only to initial sale, but to rentals, and to any subsequent sales. Most famously, this applied to the "Levittowns" in the east, but also in most states in the country. Of course, this effectively prevented the building of wealth through homeownership, which largely led to the current white/black "wealth gap" - a gap that can now never be bridged.
Ask Bill O’Reilly. John Stewart drew his attention to the bucolic neighborhood for veteran loan families he grew up in was not open to black veteran’s families buying with their GI bill benefits.
Someone needs to write a proper biography on Mark E. Petersen. His views on race are just the tip of the iceberg. He authored some of the most bizarre books on LDS sexuality, morals, and courtship that I have ever seen.
@@ExploreXplore394 Basically, take the weirdest, most awkward fireside you ever attended as a young single adult and make it even weirder. See his early book list on Wikipedia.
@@bookmedia67 Yep, just read wikipedia. He is shocking. A racist. Blacks will be servants to white in the Celestial Kingdom. He believed blacks and whites should be segregated and white and blacks should not marry. All of these statements is contradictory to gospel of Christ or the commandment to love your brother.
Is it not fence sitting when you choose to say nothing about segregatiin one way or the other? In fact don't we all do some fence sitting at one point or another in our lives?
This is one of the major reasons I knew the LDS church was not of God. How is it possible that policies so heinous are divinely inspired? The racism in mormon doctrine is disgusting.
I recently had a Mormon tell me G-d and Christ are racist and the original racist verses in the Book of Mormon were correct and shouldn't have been removed.
I asked a similar but asked why did they change the 1920 version of the verse. Firstly they now teach it’s a spiritual darkness and secondly, they are happy the Book of Mormon changes to fit their faith. It’s ironic since Mormons restored the church based on changes to fit the narrative.
The verses that claim I'm a Lamanite, a descendant of wicked people? The verses that promise I'll become WHITE and DELIGHTSOME, IF I allow myself to become a sheeple? NO THANK YOU! I love my beautiful skin that never needs a tan. By the way, DNA results of most Native Americans do not trace us to the middle east, but to east Asia. lol
Perhaps this came up earlier or later in this episode, but did the LDS doctrine-driven genealogy work have, at least in part, a race-determining function?
Inspiration comes via game of thrones amongst God's prophets and apostles on earth? Why were they not leading the world on this issue before there was ever a Reverend Martin Luther King? The church should be leading from the front where they can set and influence the path into the future.
Didn’t Nibley also connect the skin of darkness/white & delightsome to marriage practices and a mandate against intermarriage? Maybe in his BOM lectures? I can’t remember where I have this impression from.
As an Ex-Mormon, I enjoy your shows on RUclips. However, I think your format is too long. Mormon history buffs, like myself, can follow these long broadcasts, but I fear your losing your impact on folks with a more casual interest in Mormonism. Most people don't have the time available to devote two to three hours of time to these videos. I would focus on some 30 minutes to one hour length videos to garner more interest in what you have to say.
This is what they do, it's a long format podcast. They have always done this and have always gotten views. People know what they're getting into. I specifically listen to Mormon Stories because of their longer format. If people want shorter videos there are dozens of other ex mo channels to choose from.
Can you explore and write a book on racism in the Jehovah’s Witnesses next? Their old racist publications and aligning with Hitler and apartheid are appalling. Please speak about it
If it was God's command then there is no BLAME!! It was his commandment. Then the failure to understand is on US. Do you think your God owes YOU an explanation? You put yourself above God that HE answers to YOU? Or that you know "better" than those who came before you. Those who pondered, fasted, prayed who poured out their whole soles to know God's will and the WHY? You think others did not wish with all their souls that the Lord not ask them to have that rule, did not wrestle with God to put away that rule? That only those who opposed the rules were the righteous? That no revelation was offered to them...not yet,when they asked if that rule could be done away with? The stunning arrogance and self righteous arrogance of that is truly unchristian. Contention is of the devil. We are not always given answers . Sometimes wait is all the answer we have forthcoming. Is your faith strong enough to not know?
I definitely don’t disagree with any of his facts with regards to the LDS history. However, I feel like he’s become so offended by their openly racist history that he is overcorrected into a far left ideology
I’m wondering why anyone wouldn’t be offended by racist history in the LDS church or in any society? I fail to see how that is far left ideology. That is social awareness. “When you know better, do better” Maya Angelou a famous black poet.
@@glendastansbury5702 many people would like to think these issues are behind us and they fail the see the bigotry, sexism , racism , homophobia that still exists today. Their ignorance turns to anger because they refuse to educate themselves.
When I moved to Utah in 1960, I met a white couple attending BYU who were not Mormon, but did have an eye-opening Mormon experience. They often invited fellow students to their apartment for religious discussions. One day the land lady barred their way to their apartment with a broom in her hands. She saw a black student in the group and did not want him sitting on her furniture. This black man was a Panamanian Mormon. She had no problem with a white non-Mormon touching her furniture, but a black Mormon? This is an example of how racism went deep in Utah Mormons.
😢
My elderly relative refused a blood transfusion 2yrs ago because she didn’t want “black blood”. I was dumbfounded.
😢
I was at the post office in Seattle in the 1990s. We bought stamps and the only ones left were of Black leaders. We thought they were cool. A White woman and her daughter walked in and asked if we had an extra stamp for their letter to a relative. I showed her the stamps. She totally reeled and acted like she couldn't possibly put that stamp on the letter to her relative. Crazy.
disgusting
@@sr2291 what an example for your kid "family values"?!?! . Not related, but After WWII when Germany was broke, they had a tremendous surplus of hitler stamps and still used those for almost 2 years in some areas.
@@carolinecastiglione9075 You are equating Black Leaders to Hitler? Ok.
Latter Day Saint Church Leaders will not take responsibility for anything --- so, yes, they have been willing to throw mormon god under the bus since the beginning.
And throw the membership under the bus too.
@@sgee-vc1hz they have an excuse for everything. And when caught and called out on what they publish, they rewrite it and call it a "grammatical correction".
They're so brainwash twisted that they ALL have the right to lie compulsively and because they are gods headed to their own planet, that whatever lies they spew at a break neck pace, becomes truth because THEY SAID SO.
It's truly a very sad but definitely evil mindset.
And when called out in lying, they're taught to cup their ear in hand and say, "Did hear that? I feel inspired". It's truly psychotic EVIL!!!!!!
My father, an X Mormon always said the church did away with segregation because it needed a better basketball team at BYU
There's truth there.😂
I can believe it.
Now that's funny!!!!
Entire towns in Idaho and Utah STILL are segregated. They intimidate any and all ethnic people that even stop to get gass simply passing through.
I know. I live here. It's so so sad.
@@alberteinsteinoughy2tellyaI believe it. And I’m sure there are Mormons in good standing who still believe in pure blood.
I was a mormon in Austria for my whole life - quit after 63 years because of their blatant hypocrazy ... don`t want to be associated to that cult any longer. In my opinon now I believe / it seems to me that EVERY organised religion is just about power and therefore EVERYTHING Jesus did NOT STAND FOR.
Agree 💯 percent. Ex-catholic here.
Idk if you meant to spell hypocrisy “hypo-crazy”…I like it! It works!
I also exmormon from Australia I totally agree
Such a mean spirited church, even when I was in it , I was blind to lots of things, I feel accountable at the time I was in it, its been 60 plus years , an glad to have left.
I find the church embarrassing I guess you could add other church's. But my experience in the LDS church and leaders supposedly (prophets) brain wash members to deny their true selves.
The Green book was NOT published by the Chamber of Commerce! They were published by Victor H Green in New York. He was a former postal worker who collected information from other postal workers and printed the information in his self-published magazine.
When I think I'm "done" with reading up on Mormon history, Billy Mays (RIP) comes into my head saying:
"BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE!!!"
I have to admire how religious leaders are so capable of training God, like a good dog, to obey their commands,
Yep.
😂😂😂😂
So APTLY put 🤩
@@johnmcgrath6192 gonna name my next dog king of kolob🤣
This series are totally amazing!! Thanks MS and Dr Harris.
A lot of members are now saying, we misinterpreted talks & scriptures. It was now a spiritual darkness. … I just can’t believe how they justify it.
Misinterpreted? Are they not prophets and seers?
@@crystalwilcox1486 I guess the top hat wasn’t available that day🤷♂️😂
@@crystalwilcox1486Elder Christopherson, an Apostle gave a talk a few years ago about how a prophet is only a prophet when they act as such. This is a quote from Brigham Young. He said that prophets, if they are not in tune with the spirit, can say things that are not true. Leaders have said stuff like this since the early days of the church, but they are now bringing attention to these old teachings because it is extremely obvious now that the leaders were wrong.
@ericseamons9982 If not in tune with the spirit, then are they truly prophets and seers ? People have a tendency to believe the title instead of relying on their innate ability to discern truth from falsehood. Every religion has the issue of "fallen" leaders. But they also have leaders that tend to color doctrine based upon personal opinion. That is what makes us human... imperfect beings. There is also a tendency to make excuses for mistakes made instead of accountability and ownership. Prophets and seers are fallible just like everyone else.
@@crystalwilcox1486 I agree.
I love this series! Great work.
The LDS apostle Bruce R. McConkie stated that Blacks would never hold the priesthood during his lifetime. They did in 1978 and McConkie later died in 1985.
Then after the ban was lifted, he said this, “Forget everything that I have said, or what President Brigham Young or President George Q. Cannon or whomsoever has said in days past that is contrary to the present revelation. We spoke with a limited understanding and without the light and knowledge that now has come into the world.” In other words, forget all the damage I’ve done to understanding races, forget all the biases and prejudices I’ve helped millions of Mormon increase, forget that I poisoned the discourse for the last 30 years. Yes, since I have changed you must, like good sheep, change with me.
I never believed what he said the first time@@markroberts4282
Marian Anderson was a friend of Mrs. Roosevelt. Mrs. Roosevelt quit the DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution) when they wouldn’t let her sing. She then held a special concert for her at the Lincoln Memorial. If Mrs. Roosevelt figured it out, what about this so called prophets and revelators?
My super nice father in law told me black slaves were lucky as they were able to get a free ride to America. He is simultaneously the most loving person I’ve ever met AND the most racist man I’ve ever met. Perplexing.
Oh yes, I'm sure the free ride was completely luxurious.
@@CGall_ I wonder if he would be as loving to a black person as to a white person.
Disgusting. The hatred is sickening.
Oh yes, I've heard this from my mother... And my husband is black.
Segregation is of the devil. These so called leaders will have to stand infront of God and give an accounting for their disgusting behaviour.
Christ was not white! According the church definition of Canaanite, they are black. Three Gentile women in the Matthew genealogy of Christ are Canaanite: Tamar, Rahab, and possibly Bathsheba since her husband was Hittite which is Canaanite…the whole one drop rule means Christ could not be our “great high priest”!
A Mormon response might be that what happened to Christ was because of his lineage. He wasn't treated very well.
@@harlanlang6556 Jews of that time were not white. Those who are not mixed with European blood look just like the Arabs, their cousins.
Consider this, both Ezra Taft Benson agreed on one fact. That being, the Civil Rights Movement was chocked full of communists--often the NYC variety.
For a church that has Jesus Christ in its name it sure doesn't act christlike. Did Jesus practice segregation? A God that believes in segregation could surely not be my God
Especially since Jesus wasn't white. It just goes to show how wrong the LDS Church is.
@@mellisagreen7801 it's Jesus brother of Satan son of the king of kolob 🤣. That Joe Smith loving Jesus I expect that behavior from
The church used the Bible to justify the segregation. The apostles were not allowed to teach the Gentiles the gospel until after Jesus’s ascension to heaven. That is what we were taught growing up.
I am really enjoying this series. I had to pause to post this comment. If the "cursed" people would eventually turn white, if they were obedient and righteous enough, then wouldn't that blond haired, blue eyed, fair completed student of Banian's
prove the point? If that student did have African ancestry, but now presented as white, would it be fair to argue that his particular "curse" was lifted?
13:53 Is this the same Marian Anderson that was refused performance at Constitution Hall by the DAR in 1939 so Eleanor Roosevelt organized a concert for her on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial?
Yes it is.
@@karenjunguzza6611 I thought so.
Were there any racially restrictive covenants recorded on post World War II housing in Utah? I learned by reading Richard Rothstein's book, Color of Law, that the federal government and FHA would only fund housing developments that recorded "Caucasians only" restrictive covenants - this applied not only to initial sale, but to rentals, and to any subsequent sales. Most famously, this applied to the "Levittowns" in the east, but also in most states in the country. Of course, this effectively prevented the building of wealth through homeownership, which largely led to the current white/black "wealth gap" - a gap that can now never be bridged.
This created "de jure" segregation, as opposed to "de facto" segregation - and lasted to many years.
Ask Bill O’Reilly. John Stewart drew his attention to the bucolic neighborhood for veteran loan families he grew up in was not open to black veteran’s families buying with their GI bill benefits.
Someone needs to write a proper biography on Mark E. Petersen. His views on race are just the tip of the iceberg. He authored some of the most bizarre books on LDS sexuality, morals, and courtship that I have ever seen.
@@bookmedia67 Petersen was a real peter 🤣
Tell me more.
@@ExploreXplore394 Basically, take the weirdest, most awkward fireside you ever attended as a young single adult and make it even weirder. See his early book list on Wikipedia.
@@bookmedia67 Yep, just read wikipedia. He is shocking. A racist. Blacks will be servants to white in the Celestial Kingdom. He believed blacks and whites should be segregated and white and blacks should not marry. All of these statements is contradictory to gospel of Christ or the commandment to love your brother.
I noticed that Utah hospital blood banks were segregated until the early days of the AIDS crisis. Where can I dig further into that?
Is it not fence sitting when you choose to say nothing about segregatiin one way or the other? In fact don't we all do some fence sitting at one point or another in our lives?
If, I think I see religious, elderly, racial, disability, gender, LGBTQ. Any discrimination. My instinct is to call it out.
We don't come to you,. You come to us is the same thing as ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK. That is a crazy tagline for a church.
This is one of the major reasons I knew the LDS church was not of God. How is it possible that policies so heinous are divinely inspired? The racism in mormon doctrine is disgusting.
Love this series!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I recently had a Mormon tell me G-d and Christ are racist and the original racist verses in the Book of Mormon were correct and shouldn't have been removed.
😯
I asked a similar but asked why did they change the 1920 version of the verse. Firstly they now teach it’s a spiritual darkness and secondly, they are happy the Book of Mormon changes to fit their faith. It’s ironic since Mormons restored the church based on changes to fit the narrative.
@randoms7113 it was Greg Mattson of CWIC explaining that apologetics version of rrality that began my questions of mormon truth claims.
Racist language hasn't been removed from BOM.
The verses that claim I'm a Lamanite, a descendant of wicked people? The verses that promise I'll become WHITE and DELIGHTSOME, IF I allow myself to become a sheeple? NO THANK YOU! I love my beautiful skin that never needs a tan. By the way, DNA results of most Native Americans do not trace us to the middle east, but to east Asia. lol
Fascinating, valuable information re. the inner workings, behind the scenes, operations of church leadership and their fumbling of racial equity.
What a fascinating discussion!!!
This series is amazing!!!
Perhaps this came up earlier or later in this episode, but did the LDS doctrine-driven genealogy work have, at least in part, a race-determining function?
Inspiration comes via game of thrones amongst God's prophets and apostles on earth? Why were they not leading the world on this issue before there was ever a Reverend Martin Luther King? The church should be leading from the front where they can set and influence the path into the future.
I thought Nibley wrote a strong defense of the Book of Abraham after examining the document?
He wrote several books and articles, none of which have held up well.....
The good ole days.
Didn’t Nibley also connect the skin of darkness/white & delightsome to marriage practices and a mandate against intermarriage? Maybe in his BOM lectures? I can’t remember where I have this impression from.
Tower of Babel and about 10 other places in the Bible shows that God stopped being a globalist.
I am just gobsmacked.
Same ol’ same ol’, blame the parent.
As an Ex-Mormon, I enjoy your shows on RUclips. However, I think your format is too long. Mormon history buffs, like myself, can follow these long broadcasts, but I fear your losing your impact on folks with a more casual interest in Mormonism. Most people don't have the time available to devote two to three hours of time to these videos. I would focus on some 30 minutes to one hour length videos to garner more interest in what you have to say.
This is what they do, it's a long format podcast. They have always done this and have always gotten views. People know what they're getting into. I specifically listen to Mormon Stories because of their longer format. If people want shorter videos there are dozens of other ex mo channels to choose from.
john i would love to illustrate these stories for you! the mormon world needs to know this racial history! 1:53:00
@alanschannel1495 - Please email me: mormonstories@gmail.com
The Cadillac mention has more meaning. David McKay had a white Cadillac and drove fast a lot.
Can you explore and write a book on racism in the Jehovah’s Witnesses next? Their old racist publications and aligning with Hitler and apartheid are appalling. Please speak about it
💜🙏
It’s a nod or slam at church prophet then…
BLM only matters every 4 Years!!!ELECTION! And i am a huge advocate for BLM and all LIVES!!
MIDDLE GROUND!!!
Utah is seriously the most bigotted state in the US and they do it with a smile.
Mormons are good at smiling. It's what underneath counts the most.
@@crikey47 Also by far the most creepy. Way worse than backwoods Appalachia.
The answer is yes, of course they did LOL
Blame your bigotry on God who is only LOVE? Truly pathetic!
Full garbage
Go on…
GArbage in whAt way? ?
@@patriciafinn5717 unless stated otherwise he must clearly be referring to the church leaders as full garbage
If it was God's command then there is no BLAME!! It was his commandment. Then the failure to understand is on US.
Do you think your God owes YOU an explanation? You put yourself above God that HE answers to YOU?
Or that you know "better" than those who came before you. Those who pondered, fasted, prayed who poured out their whole soles to know God's will and the WHY? You think others did not wish with all their souls that the Lord not ask them to have that rule, did not wrestle with God to put away that rule? That only those who opposed the rules were the righteous?
That no revelation was offered to them...not yet,when they asked if that rule could be done away with?
The stunning arrogance and self righteous arrogance of that is truly unchristian.
Contention is of the devil.
We are not always given answers . Sometimes wait is all the answer we have forthcoming.
Is your faith strong enough to not know?
Zz
Liar
I definitely don’t disagree with any of his facts with regards to the LDS history.
However, I feel like he’s become so offended by their openly racist history that he is overcorrected into a far left ideology
Can you give any examples?
I’m wondering why anyone wouldn’t be offended by racist history in the LDS church or in any society? I fail to see how that is far left ideology. That is social awareness. “When you know better, do better” Maya Angelou a famous black poet.
@@glendastansbury5702 many people would like to think these issues are behind us and they fail the see the bigotry, sexism , racism , homophobia that still exists today. Their ignorance turns to anger because they refuse to educate themselves.
What did you expect? A republican conservative pointing out racism?
@@jamirr100 I like it, to the point