Rory is such a gem. 50% of what he says I think, absolutely, someone is finally saying that. The other 50% I'm thinking, huh, I never thought of that in that way.
This is a reset to an earlier era when a Glaswegian or Newcastle ship magnate, or a Manchester mill owner could look a London banker in the eye as an equal. Older people may recall provincial grandparents telling stories of local shops that sold fresh octopus or couture frocks from locations that would have been unimaginable in 60s or 70s decline. It was over by WW2 in truth, living on in named trains that took first class passengers to the capital to meet their accountant or dentist. Leave London to oligarchs and rent barons.
I have lived in London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris, and spend a lot of time in New York and other major cities. For many years, the best meals I have had have all been in pubs and restaurants in the countryside in Staffordshire and Derbyshire.
London is symbolic. Maybe it should just be a massive cultural centre rather than the place where all business is done and people come and go without any human interaction of value at all. London used to be a collection of villages - return to that and get rid of Khan
OMG. Am I the only ordinary, which is to say working class, native born Londoner, who tuned in to this expecting to hear a discussion on matters which affect us all, as we see our city transformed into something alien and unrecognisable. Instead we have the ramblings of a pair of middle class prats, concentrating on whether London still holds its own in providing great food, and if a decent latte can be found outside the M25. He talks of 'interesting' people, by which I guess he refers to the Metropolitan elite, or to the flood of immigrants who are changing the face of London. Yet spoken of in a way that only those who live their lives in the leafy outer Boroughs, mostly still populated by people like themselves, can afford to do. Relishing the wide variety of cultures and food, ( my dears how wonderfully diverse), yet having no knowledge of what life is like for those of us who inhabit the inner-city, less salubrious areas. We old time Londoners have seen our beloved city changed, our neighbourhoods broken up, often into multicultural ghettos, and longstanding ties to our home city destroyed. London is increasingly a violent, lawless place, where social cohesion has broken down, as newcomers fight for dominance, leaving us natives feeling lost and isolated. Well that is the reality for many of us Londoners, as I said, living less priveleged lives. But hey, let's not concentrate of such trivial matters, not when the likes of these two have other more pressing concerns, like a great cup of coffee.
So true. 100% agree with you Christine. They sound like politicians - left leaning, metropolitan elites who are tone deaf & completely out of touch. It must be fabulous to get dirt cheap cleaners, nannies & waiters on tap. Not for them being on the council house list in an extremely overcrowded and expensive home city with shit schools and sky high crime. How dreadful for you, darling. Having 2 homes must be such a comfort when you need a decent organic vegan restaurant in Hastings. Christine - You forgot what’s happened to the traffic in London with bicycle lanes no one uses, exorbitant parking charges, mini Holland schemes & ULEZ. Super!
@@dcoughla681 State schools in London are much better than the UK average. They're a great success story that the government would love to be able to extend to places like Hastings. The London homicide rate is far lower than it was in the 1990s and 2000s. It's worse than the UK average, but the difference has narrowed a lot. Can you suggest any measurable things that are particularly bad about London, apart from high property prices and distance from the countryside? Rory Sutherland's obsession with food is almost a self-parody: fat man talks about how important food is. I like chamber and baroque music and if you want to hear live performances frequently, London is the only place in the UK to be. I'm not a theatre fan, but I expect for people who want to attend more than a few theatrical performances per year, London is the only place to be. If you want countryside or messing about in boats, London is a daft place to be.
Completely agree, es expecting they speaking about the truth about what's going on. Instead I got two middle age men talking about lattes, Vietnamese food and hip restaurants in Hastings. They're their own parody.
When my father was a child in the 1930s, stockbrokers commuted from the South Coast to work in the City., and even when I joined an investment bank in the 1980s, my boss also commuted from Brighton every day to London. I commuted from the Kings Road into the City so I could get as much sleep as possible with early starts and late finishes. Being a country lover and not a great fan of cities including London I admit I left London some way ahead of my peers. Since then (long before now) it strikes me London has become an increasingly less desirable place to live and work save as always for the money.
@@borderlord Because I had a place in London and a place in the country for some years, I tried leaving London on a Friday night and driving in on a Monday morning for a while but ended up returning to Chelsea on a Sunday afternoon to beat the rest of the weekend commuters. It was never going to really work out from over a hundred miles away, although as time passed as you will know massive “commutes” became more common if not almost obligatory.
A latrine I agree. I would recommend it though if you want to dye your white shirt collar black very quickly within a half day when you're in the centre.
I’m shocked that they skated over the issue of immigration. These places they’re referring to are chock full of English. The London they’re leaving? Barely recognisable from even a decade ago. Don’t pretend it doesn’t rank alongside “Vietnamese restaurants” as a reason to leave.
You will not escape the immigrants anywhere there in a few decades. There will be hubble bubble shops and cannbis dens in Inverness and Abergawhatever. Salaam.
@@terencefield3204 You're right. The places that still feel British today will eventually be as bad as Bradford is right now. Britain is over, due to successive politicians who hate it continuing to be in power.
It's much simpler than all of this, and well documented. London has sold its soul to the highest bidder, becoming a playground for the rich. As a result, it feels like an empty vessel. I've lived in London twice-once in the late '90s and again just before lockdown. The change is striking. The city has lost much of its culture, youthful energy, fashion, and vibrancy. It's become so work-focused that the joy and spirit that filled the streets 20 years ago have faded away.
I grew up in Huddersfield. Last time I was up there there was a Brazilian restaurant. ('Marquinho, let's cross the Atlantic to sell feijoada in a grey, perma-dying former textile town in the north of England.')
As a former TfL employee, I'll offer a few words in their defence. They were forced to be self funded around the last recession by the Tories. No more central government grants. And they have a LOT of ancient infrastructure to maintain which, to be frank, would cost an unimaginable amount of money to upgrade to modern standards if they took the bull by the horns. Maind you, even if they did upgrade, then they would still have delays if the Elizabeth line is any indication. And on that note, it seems like I didn't offer as much of a defence as I intended. How unfortunate.
My gawd, that's spooky. I've never agreed with a Spectator video so thoroughly. I'm a few years younger than Rory but he is exactly correct about everything related to this topic. Its like hes been hacking my phone or something. Spot on.
Interesting ways they use to think about the cities (I.e. what nice things you can buy there). Admittedly Rory's background is in sales, but it seems a very specific view. I got priced out of the capital, but I was never enamoured with what I could buy. I just wanted to rub shoulders with Interesting people I could learn from, and spend as little money as possible.
'....It's a rich economy.... ' It is indeed Rory. Richer by 90 Billion they took the rest of the UK for for HS2 and 1 Trillion in 2008 for Quantative Easing. Now, pay that back through proper local rates of tax within. the South East and I wonder what the Keynesian result would be outside?
Ive lived in london for 10 years. Its a lot less creative and interesting in that time alone. Its basically a suburb of Surrey. Its become extremely homogenous . It will just get worse and worse as no one can afford to live there
Shrewsbury. The moment a pret opened up I understood the change that was happening. Don't forget the other half of this which rather than moving to places with global foods Londoners are often moving to places that are more British, more traditional, even often more homogeneous. It's not called Escape to the Country for nothing. Shrewsbury has become popular precisely because it's a town that has many of the comforts of London, combined with an inoffensive quaint Englishness that I think many Londoners desire.
@@sirbillyclean went to Shrewsbury a month ago, I ended up there accidently once after a drunken christmas do and had a mooch and liked it enough so said I wanted to come back, properly loved it and it was only an hours drive from mine! That market in town near wimpy was really smart.
'...a few tube improvements.... nothing spectacular..' No and who paid for these - not London. I suppose there's always the HS2 to Birmingham. And who paid for this? Errrrr .......
Two naive, middle-class chaps discuss London without mentioning the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. You know, the BIG ELEPHANT. Can't you see it? Is there a reason you don't want to mention it?
Its a neo-lib success story, is London. A fantastically wealthy (and largely corrupt) heavily policed, spotless urban core, surrounded by mile after mile of shabby, declining sprawl, and some nice estates right on the edge. The capitalists have succeeded in turning London from a liveable city to something out of south america or south africa. Fine family houses and areas full of such properties that would once have housed a decent working class local family, generation after generation now houses 20 or so dabbawala men all living the neolib dream of a minimum wage gig subsidized by tax credits. Its progress jim, but not as we know it!
Frankly this individual looks as if he’s had enough Food And Drink up to this point,,,,,, over 45 ,,,,,, I’m over 65 and frankly LONDON IS VERY FAR FROM FINISHED . IF YOU HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF LONDON,,,, PACK UP AND po.
Interesting, but totally wrong about coffee outside of London. There's no way you can get a decent coffee made with full fat milk at exactly the right volume and temperature so that its texture is stretched and velvety. Everywhere you go outside of London, you may as well get yourself a coffee from Macdonald's. Even Costa outside of London is a disgrace - made extra hot whether you like it or not.
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
We moved to Norwich from London two years ago....we hardly miss it there's so much here, plus no traffic and gorgeous countryside and coast
@@dream-67 we don’t miss u either
Glad you like it, please remember what made you leave and don't make Norwich like london
Rory is such a gem. 50% of what he says I think, absolutely, someone is finally saying that. The other 50% I'm thinking, huh, I never thought of that in that way.
London is like living in a tiny sized aquarium where the owner shovels in more fish every day & doesn’t change the water.
hahaha
As a fish living in London I can confirm, this is exactly what it feels like.
What would changing the water look like haha?
I no longer have any desire to even visit London, never mind live there.
This is a reset to an earlier era when a Glaswegian or Newcastle ship magnate, or a Manchester mill owner could look a London banker in the eye as an equal. Older people may recall provincial grandparents telling stories of local shops that sold fresh octopus or couture frocks from locations that would have been unimaginable in 60s or 70s decline. It was over by WW2 in truth, living on in named trains that took first class passengers to the capital to meet their accountant or dentist. Leave London to oligarchs and rent barons.
I have lived in London, Amsterdam, Frankfurt and Paris, and spend a lot of time in New York and other major cities. For many years, the best meals I have had have all been in pubs and restaurants in the countryside in Staffordshire and Derbyshire.
The same reason they say most of the good chefs have left Paris and France. Better conditions over here in the outlying areas.
Couldn’t agree more
London is symbolic. Maybe it should just be a massive cultural centre rather than the place where all business is done and people come and go without any human interaction of value at all. London used to be a collection of villages - return to that and get rid of Khan
OMG. Am I the only ordinary, which is to say working class, native born Londoner, who tuned in to this expecting to hear a discussion on matters which affect us all, as we see our city transformed into something alien and unrecognisable. Instead we have the ramblings of a pair of middle class prats, concentrating on whether London still holds its own in providing great food, and if a decent latte can be found outside the M25. He talks of 'interesting' people, by which I guess he refers to the Metropolitan elite, or to the flood of immigrants who are changing the face of London. Yet spoken of in a way that only those who live their lives in the leafy outer Boroughs, mostly still populated by people like themselves, can afford to do. Relishing the wide variety of cultures and food, ( my dears how wonderfully diverse), yet having no knowledge of what life is like for those of us who inhabit the inner-city, less salubrious areas. We old time Londoners have seen our beloved city changed, our neighbourhoods broken up, often into multicultural ghettos, and longstanding ties to our home city destroyed. London is increasingly a violent, lawless place, where social cohesion has broken down, as newcomers fight for dominance, leaving us natives feeling lost and isolated. Well that is the reality for many of us Londoners, as I said, living less priveleged lives. But hey, let's not concentrate of such trivial matters, not when the likes of these two have other more pressing concerns, like a great cup of coffee.
Graphic and perfectly described as a place not it once was. Thank you.
I admit I was also expecting to hear the type of discussion that you describe here, Christine
So true. 100% agree with you Christine. They sound like politicians - left leaning, metropolitan elites who are tone deaf & completely out of touch. It must be fabulous to get dirt cheap cleaners, nannies & waiters on tap. Not for them being on the council house list in an extremely overcrowded and expensive home city with shit schools and sky high crime. How dreadful for you, darling. Having 2 homes must be such a comfort when you need a decent organic vegan restaurant in Hastings. Christine - You forgot what’s happened to the traffic in London with bicycle lanes no one uses, exorbitant parking charges, mini Holland schemes & ULEZ. Super!
@@dcoughla681 State schools in London are much better than the UK average. They're a great success story that the government would love to be able to extend to places like Hastings. The London homicide rate is far lower than it was in the 1990s and 2000s. It's worse than the UK average, but the difference has narrowed a lot. Can you suggest any measurable things that are particularly bad about London, apart from high property prices and distance from the countryside? Rory Sutherland's obsession with food is almost a self-parody: fat man talks about how important food is. I like chamber and baroque music and if you want to hear live performances frequently, London is the only place in the UK to be. I'm not a theatre fan, but I expect for people who want to attend more than a few theatrical performances per year, London is the only place to be. If you want countryside or messing about in boats, London is a daft place to be.
Completely agree, es expecting they speaking about the truth about what's going on. Instead I got two middle age men talking about lattes, Vietnamese food and hip restaurants in Hastings. They're their own parody.
When my father was a child in the 1930s, stockbrokers commuted from the South Coast to work in the City., and even when I joined an investment bank in the 1980s, my boss also commuted from Brighton every day to London. I commuted from the Kings Road into the City so I could get as much sleep as possible with early starts and late finishes. Being a country lover and not a great fan of cities including London I admit I left London some way ahead of my peers. Since then (long before now) it strikes me London has become an increasingly less desirable place to live and work save as always for the money.
How far away did you move from London and did you continue to commute in to the City?
@@borderlord Because I had a place in London and a place in the country for some years, I tried leaving London on a Friday night and driving in on a Monday morning for a while but ended up returning to Chelsea on a Sunday afternoon to beat the rest of the weekend commuters. It was never going to really work out from over a hundred miles away, although as time passed as you will know massive “commutes” became more common if not almost obligatory.
@@bill8784 Having a place in town and the country is definitely a good solution!👍
Londoners have been moving to Tunbridge Wells since the 1990s but its sped up in recent years.
That's about as far as they should go please.
Rory is right on it. High prices are a nightmare - they turn banks into building societies for starters.
London is a massive cesspool. Least English place in the UK and priced are sky high. Couldn't pay me to live there
A latrine I agree. I would recommend it though if you want to dye your white shirt collar black very quickly within a half day when you're in the centre.
Worse? Wtf....it's catastrophic what's going on!!!!
Country town living, but not too far from a major city, is an ideal arrangement when retired.
I’m shocked that they skated over the issue of immigration. These places they’re referring to are chock full of English. The London they’re leaving? Barely recognisable from even a decade ago. Don’t pretend it doesn’t rank alongside “Vietnamese restaurants” as a reason to leave.
You will not escape the immigrants anywhere there in a few decades. There will be hubble bubble shops and cannbis dens in Inverness and Abergawhatever. Salaam.
What exactly do you think the crop of turkish barbers shops sell :).
@@terencefield3204 You're right. The places that still feel British today will eventually be as bad as Bradford is right now. Britain is over, due to successive politicians who hate it continuing to be in power.
@@advocate1563 Turkish delight
It's much simpler than all of this, and well documented. London has sold its soul to the highest bidder, becoming a playground for the rich. As a result, it feels like an empty vessel. I've lived in London twice-once in the late '90s and again just before lockdown. The change is striking. The city has lost much of its culture, youthful energy, fashion, and vibrancy. It's become so work-focused that the joy and spirit that filled the streets 20 years ago have faded away.
Well put, I think its happening in a lot of capital cities.
The youthful energy everywhere has disappeared - they’re all indoors on their phones.
Great analysis, the kind of calculations I’m doing, as I’m going to move out of London!
Hastings has also seen an overspill from Brighton - another town where creatives got completely priced out.
I grew up in Huddersfield. Last time I was up there there was a Brazilian restaurant.
('Marquinho, let's cross the Atlantic to sell feijoada in a grey, perma-dying former textile town in the north of England.')
So that is it, food choices are the criteria for innovation?
As a former TfL employee, I'll offer a few words in their defence. They were forced to be self funded around the last recession by the Tories. No more central government grants. And they have a LOT of ancient infrastructure to maintain which, to be frank, would cost an unimaginable amount of money to upgrade to modern standards if they took the bull by the horns.
Maind you, even if they did upgrade, then they would still have delays if the Elizabeth line is any indication. And on that note, it seems like I didn't offer as much of a defence as I intended. How unfortunate.
I like Rory. But am struggling to reconcile 5-2 becomes 2-5 argument if you’re working the TWAT method.
Unless it’s an 8 day week in Hastings 😅
Root and stem clear out of illegals and foreign criminals would be a good start. Coupled with a complete moratorium on permanent immigration.
I'm common, so when I lived in London in 1988 I thought the centre was Oxford Circus - Leicester Square - Covent Garden.
"Cuisines, food, restaurants, restaurants, food, cuisines, cuisines, food. By the way, did l mention the food."
Interesting but for the misleading title
My gawd, that's spooky.
I've never agreed with a Spectator video so thoroughly. I'm a few years younger than Rory but he is exactly correct about everything related to this topic.
Its like hes been hacking my phone or something.
Spot on.
Yep he’s bang on with the movement to margate, folkestone and Hastings especially three days a week in the office
Does anyone know what the music is on the start and end of this video?
Interesting ways they use to think about the cities (I.e. what nice things you can buy there). Admittedly Rory's background is in sales, but it seems a very specific view. I got priced out of the capital, but I was never enamoured with what I could buy. I just wanted to rub shoulders with Interesting people I could learn from, and spend as little money as possible.
The second city?
Londoner - Birmingham
Brummie - Birmingham
Manc. - London
Phew. Don't go near mentioning mine please.
Foreign tourists have also discovered there are better attractions outside of London.
Get yourself to Westfield and witness the takeover of London,it’s rare to hear English let alone an English accent.
That’s what happens when the indigenous population loses its culture and stops voting.
Who ate all the pies?
Not the guy with the beard.
I want to give him a kiss!
He is just so suave.
The world is full of married men.
It’s too late. My son is in London and he’s told me walking around in the centre and no police?!!! What the hell is khan up to 👎🏻
The only place you’ll see a policeman in London is when you watch Line of Duty on the telly.
Londonstan
Its a pity Rory is not advising government
Rory's theory doesn't apply to Sittingbourne.
Not yet.
I like Sittingbourne. Pretty town. Give it a year or so!
'....It's a rich economy.... ' It is indeed Rory. Richer by 90 Billion they took the rest of the UK for for HS2 and 1 Trillion in 2008 for Quantative Easing.
Now, pay that back through proper local rates of tax within. the South East and I wonder what the Keynesian result would be outside?
Londonstan and Birminghamstan, two cheeks of the same.
Pengistan. Chippenhamistan. Tee hee. You lot are done for! It's England Jim, but not as we know it!Yorkshirepuddwivchillies init!
@@terencefield3204 have you been drinking bleach again?
@@terencefield3204 were all done for then. Have you seen the state of pakistanstan
@@curiositycloset2359 Well your Mill Towns give me an insight whilst f ocussing only on Britain! No need to look at Pakistan in Pakistan!🤣😇🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥🤥
@@terencefield3204 our Milltowns are mostly pakistani. Disaster zones
Cardiff is fine for you. We are happy you going there. Don't advertise other places nearby though. We really don't want you here. Thanks.
Ive lived in london for 10 years. Its a lot less creative and interesting in that time alone. Its basically a suburb of Surrey. Its become extremely homogenous . It will just get worse and worse as no one can afford to live there
Nowhere run by Ghengis Khan can be saved.
Shrewsbury. The moment a pret opened up I understood the change that was happening. Don't forget the other half of this which rather than moving to places with global foods Londoners are often moving to places that are more British, more traditional, even often more homogeneous. It's not called Escape to the Country for nothing.
Shrewsbury has become popular precisely because it's a town that has many of the comforts of London, combined with an inoffensive quaint Englishness that I think many Londoners desire.
@@sirbillyclean went to Shrewsbury a month ago, I ended up there accidently once after a drunken christmas do and had a mooch and liked it enough so said I wanted to come back, properly loved it and it was only an hours drive from mine! That market in town near wimpy was really smart.
@@izrite3162 Glad you liked my Town. Shropshire is a hidden gem.
You can bump up your Tinder subscription and set yourself as being in London, then make it back on cheaper rent living by the sea.
Actually I wondered who RS was? Then I looked. Good at self publicising. Not like most living in London then.
I want to live on an abstract plain. Frank Black, anyone? Teenager Of The Year!
West Hampstead's cool now but you'll need a baseball cap. (Green Fire, UK) 🌈🦉 Consume or Die!
'...a few tube improvements.... nothing spectacular..'
No and who paid for these - not London.
I suppose there's always the HS2 to Birmingham. And who paid for this? Errrrr .......
Two naive, middle-class chaps discuss London without mentioning the ELEPHANT IN THE ROOM. You know, the BIG ELEPHANT. Can't you see it? Is there a reason you don't want to mention it?
F.I.L.T.H - Failed In London Tried Hastings
This conversation was sponsored by the Guild of Bakers…’Roman bread made with real Roman wheat’
London.
The ill khanate.
Its a neo-lib success story, is London. A fantastically wealthy (and largely corrupt) heavily policed, spotless urban core, surrounded by mile after mile of shabby, declining sprawl, and some nice estates right on the edge.
The capitalists have succeeded in turning London from a liveable city to something out of south america or south africa. Fine family houses and areas full of such properties that would once have housed a decent working class local family, generation after generation now houses 20 or so dabbawala men all living the neolib dream of a minimum wage gig subsidized by tax credits.
Its progress jim, but not as we know it!
Moneylenders and landlords....
Not sure Cardiff is a second tier city - maybe second from the bottom 😂
put a donk on it
fat fat is right
Frankly this individual looks as if he’s had enough Food And Drink up to this point,,,,,, over 45 ,,,,,, I’m over 65 and frankly LONDON IS VERY FAR FROM FINISHED .
IF YOU HAVE HAD ENOUGH OF LONDON,,,, PACK UP AND po.
Correct. Become a student of history and you’ll realise that London is will get her second wind.
Interesting, but totally wrong about coffee outside of London. There's no way you can get a decent coffee made with full fat milk at exactly the right volume and temperature so that its texture is stretched and velvety. Everywhere you go outside of London, you may as well get yourself a coffee from Macdonald's. Even Costa outside of London is a disgrace - made extra hot whether you like it or not.
I see you. I hear you. ❤