Final Fantasy VI Analysis (Ep.2): As Above, So Below | State Of The Arc Podcast
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
- As soon as you press start: darkness, then, flashes of lightning. We descend below the clouds, into the storm above Narshe. From there, we play all the way through Figaro Castle. This game is AMAZING! If you enjoyed the video, please like and comment, it really helps us out. Thank you!
Time Codes:
1. Intro (0:00)
2. An Approach to Older Games (0:38)
3. Translation Issues (10:57)
4. The Opening Scene (25:24)
5. Prologue (34:28)
6. Narshe (53:45)
7. Old Man’s House (1:03:33)
8. Deus Ex Moogle (1:31:26)
9. To Figaro! (1:43:01)
**We’re Now On Spotify**: open.spotify.com/show/4gIzzvT...
**Listen On Soundcloud**: / resonantarc
**Listen On iTunes**: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...
**Listen On Pocket Cast**: pca.st/NJsJ
Patreon Page: / resonantarc
Subscribe Star: www.subscribestar.com/resonan...
Twitter: / resonantarc
Facebook: / resonantarc 
Игры
This series is going to be timeless. Years from now, people will come back and binge watch this, and love every minute of it.
I’ve already watched Xenogears about 5 times. I just can’t get enough I guess…
@@joepeezy4sheezy Have you seen their coverage of Final Fantasy Tactics? It was an absolute masterpiece of a series.
@@philipboardman1357 I have and it sure is! My favorite FF story by a long way.
I've watched their FFX videos 3 times already.
“Evergreen,” I think, is what they call this kind of content.
You mentioned Locke's exaggerated reaction to learning Terra has amnesia, and I wanted to point out it's because of past events with Rachel that he reacts that way
Some little things you may have missed! Whelk/Ymir's counterattack is the only mechanic that makes ATB matter... until Chadarnook does the same behavior in Owzer's house. (Though Chadarnook's attack is a gradual HP drain on all members, not a big single-target attack.)
In the FFVI Ultimania guide, it says that Biggs and Wedge were going to be the antagonists trying to disrupt the opera, but the devs swapped them for Ultros in the end.
I work with a lot of game developers, and have heard interviews with hundreds of them. The second-most common major for game developers, after computer science, is theater. So, it's not too strange that games frequently have a theatrical element to them.
Did you notice that Figaro Castle's theme does something that no other character theme does? It repeats its main melodic section. Why? Because it's the character theme for both Edgar and Sabin, who are twins.
Figaros castle theme is also clearly inspired by The Marriage of Figaro by Bethoven. Listen to the repeating arpeggio into section in both. So the question becomes, did Mozarts composition inspire the name of Castle Figaro. Or did the name Castle Figaro inspire Nobuo Uematsu to reference Bethovens composition?
bonus: the Marriage of Figaro is a 4 piece OPERA
Many monsters counterattack you throughout the entire game...
@@betamarklar Sure, it's super common. But 99% of enemies with counterattacks don't have a specific phase in which they do it; they just do it all the time.
Biggs and Wedge can actually be found in Chrono Trigger: they're working in Norstein Bekkler's Tent of Horrors in the Millennial Fair. They also do look quite similar to how they are here.
This is Biggs.
This is Wedge.
This is Pierre.
Find Wedge.
The clown in that tent also laughs in a way that sounds like Kefka.
Star Wars references I love them.
@@barkbentley4657 Piett. (Another Star Wars character, one of the Star Destroyer captains)
@@barkbentley4657 cue music tune you will randomly remember for the rest of you life
ruclips.net/video/8AH6mDIJf8g/видео.html
I absolutely love the opening dialogue in this podcast. I totally agree that a simple plot, told well, can be just as good (if not better) than a complex plot that is difficult to follow.
As much as i love Metal Gear lore and story telling, it's way too complex for it's on good, and sometimes fumbled. Simple storylines well written and well executed are better alot of the times.
*cough Kingdom Hearts *cough
Considering how lore-heavy later Final Fantasies got, I think FFVI will always be one of my favourites because it also left so much to the imagination. Not everything needs to be concretely fleshed out by the creators. Part of the charm is to let the players fill in the gaps with their own minds, and to create their own experiences with the world.
I trust you guys. FF 8 made it especially clear to me, you talked about Squall being forced in all this situations and he was just a teenager. The first time I played 8 I didn't make much out of it, probably because I was younger than Squall. But now after 20 years, with your podcast, did I get new appreciation for the story, still hate the gameplay. People change with the times, so does their outlook on things. So I appreciate the work you do with the games I played and plan to play. Thanks.
Been replaying Final Fantasies for 27+ years now. I get a new perspective on them every time I play, over the years. Always a new things to gain from it as you age.
The thought of this game being like theatre is truly a game changer for me. Thank you for that haha
Me too!
its shakespearean... i mean kefka being a clownish villain is a page right out of ol williams book
same! it's one of those things that's so obvious as soon as someone points it out. but i never saw it!
The only explanation for the addition of Locke’s “Magitek Witch” comment is that it potentially adds to his character arc with Celes. Going from a visceral distance against anyone associated with the Empire to rescuing one of their generals and becoming allies.
It’s not much, but that could have been the thought process.
The emotional power of the character stories in 6 doesn't need mountains of text and graphics to come through, it's still stronger than any game released up to 2023. There's no substitute for efficient, heartfelt writing.
very true
I don’t really agree, but okay.
Regarding the "Approach to Older Games" points made in the beginning. When playing any RPG with text box limitations, translation issues, etc. I always put myself in the mindset to read the text and dialogue for understanding the content of the scene only. Just the basic ideas or sentiment that the characters are trying to convey. But then I completely rely on the Music and character animations to "fill in the gaps" and carry 100% of the dramatic/emotional content and tone of the scene.
Basically, the blue text box = what the character said. But the music and animations = How well it was actually spoken/delivered.
I suspect that the people who fell in love with RPGs of this era do this kind of abstraction without even thinking about it. Because if you actually try to read those text boxes out loud, a lot of them are very, very awkward or dry.
Another way to think about this is Uematsu's music actually "writes" a TON of the dialogue in the first 9 FF games, but especially in the NES/SNES games because of the text limitations.
If you play RPGs with this mindset, even story scenes that seem very "basic" can feel more enjoyable and have more impact overall. Because allowing the music to fill in all the drama that is missing from the actual text allows you to imagine every line delivered as if it was Shakespeare. Even if it's actually closer to 4th to 5th grade English writing level. This isn't just my mindset for NES/SNES RPGs, but more or less for any RPG that doesn't have voice acting. It really depends on the quality of the Translation (which for PS1 era and older was pretty poor like 9 times out of 10).
This is me. It always confuses me, now grown up, when people struggle with translations. I can't think of any SNES RPG I didn't understand perfectly fine, even as a kid, because of all the supplemental art. And I have played Breath of Fire 2.
Mike! I agree so much with your view of older games. One RUclipsr commented that what Nobuo did with the soundtrack to ff6 was like “painting the Sistine chapel with a box of crayons”. A lot of art is not about hyper-realism. It’s about capturing the emotion and the heart of the thing.
Books are fantastic, and they have no pictures. Are they not as good as movies since they’re not as “real”? Is horror scarier when you see the monster, or before you see it?
What’s great about 6 is what they accomplished within the limitations they had. It gives you the vibes, the feelings, the ideas of that world. Your mind can fill in the blanks. It’s the same reason so many miss the overworld. You get a feeling of vastness and unlimited potential because of the abstraction. Because of what your mind fills the world with.
I remember being initially disappointed with parts of FFX because I could no longer get that abstraction from a world map. I no longer had the characters voices living in my head. My mind was no longer filling in those blanks. X was awesome, but having the abstractions engages and engrosses a player by making them automatically fill in what’s missing.
Just from the opening segment, I'm glad to hear you guys discussing how these older games had this kind of space for interpretation for the players. It's almost like a dialog between the game/devs and the players: everything you're seeing in the game is a prompt to get your imagination brimming with how these scenes might actually look through a more real-time, cinematic lens.
Even the interplay of traversal and combat is so abstracted-clearly these little chibi characters walking from point A to point B is supposed to represent a grander scale of exploration and journeying. Likewise, with the combat, strategically you may be thinking of how to best carry your party through the robust but rigid battle system in each and every encounter, but it's easy to imagine these battles being simultaneously more sparse and more intense with each instance.
Especially in the JRPGs even through the PS1 era, we as players are expected to do a lot of the heavy lifting to support the overall narrative and aesthetic while playing, which makes for a uniquely (I won't necessarily say "more") engaging experience that laid the groundwork for story-driven games today.
Request to have Casen narrate every opening of the analyzed games from now on, please! He did a sublime job.
FFVI is one of the games that presents such a rich story you can't help but create scenarios for each character during your first playthrough. It's that good. A true landmark achievement. P.S.: Lots of Star Wars references in this game.
The whole game is a star wars reference in that its a scrappy group of rebels vs the all powerful evil empire.
But yea, there's also a ton of more specific references throughout.
@@Kosmic_Aes Yep, as well as most if not all games in the main series.
We had terrible translations in the 90s but dang it we liked it
A simple story is harder to pull off than you might think. Having a story that’s both easy to follow and not on-the-nose is a tough balance to maintain.
Woolsey gave us Son of a Submariner. Woolsey is forgiven any failings.
This game evaded me throughout my years. I avoided watching this until I could start it. This is going to be my first time following a game and this amazing podcast simultaneously.
Oh man, I absolutely love Final Fantasy VI's intro sequence and there's so much to unpack here.
The very first scene in Final Fantasy VI signifies that this is a world on the verge of destruction. The mood is ominous, with ringing bells signalling the beginning of the end. It is a "hopeless, nihilistic" feeling that is simultaneously grand, preparing one to come upon the world's source (it is not for nothing that this very track will be used as a prelude to the battle against the final boss of the game).
In "Thus Spoke Zarathustra," Nietzsche also presents a world on the verge of transition. Although people don't seem to be aware of this fact, God is dead, the bells are tolling for His funeral, and the world can no longer be the same. Because of the death of God and the collapse of all transcendent sources of meaning, an epoch of absolute nihilism has come and the people are ill-prepared for it. Zarathustra, Nietzsche's take on the Persian prophet Zoroaster, takes upon himself the task of creating order out from this chaos, to take advantage of the nihilistic age to come up with life-affirming narratives (the Overman, the man who can conquer the Eternal Recurrence) that can justify life on a purely this-worldly basis.
For Final Fantasy VI, the opening scene gives me a sense that the world is moving towards that same period of absolute chaos, the world just before the onslaught of the Flood, so to speak. A storm is coming, and people are ill-equipped for it. Bells are not just a marker of time, they can also be ominous in the sense of acting as alarms or as warnings of danger. There is a referent to a previous cataclysmic war (The War of the Magi) that has absolutely devastated the world, though people seem to be deaf to the lessons of history and are bringing themselves, once again, to the brink of destruction.
We are also immediately introduced to the captive Terra under the Gestahlian Empire, which signifies also the downside of a technological civilization. It makes me think of Heidegger's ruminations on technology, and how it has influenced our sense of the world and those around us to the point where we consider them less as human beings and more as tools to be used and discarded for our purposes. This is the main problem of the Gestahlian Empire, among other things, a Faustian reach for absolute dominance over the world and a willing capacity to instrumentalize other people for the sake of absolute power.
We are made to feel complicit in the crime against Narshe in the beginning of the game, but there is still a very slight but powerful melody of hope that echoes throughout the opening rendition of Terra's theme. Almost as if saying, to the player, that all is not yet lost, there is a way forward from this place of absolute hopelessness and dehumanization, and that, even till the very end, there is a way for one to fight back and not to lose hope.
6:00.. this.. right here is suuuuch in interesting discussion.
This is exactly the reason why I think Chrono Trigger's story is waaay grander than DQ8 for example. Even though being like 4 times as short.
The amount of adventure you have finished in CT is simply insane. When arriving at Magus castle. That journey feels like like a full story almost. Or up until Tyrano Lair.
Less is more.
And hooooly shit is FF6 deep and epic. One of my favorite game stories easily
I love that you mentioned the structure and feel of the game being like an opera, because the music in the game makes it feel that way, too. When you were talking about the intro music, I couldn't help but realize that it's actually an overture, and sets out a number of the musical themes that will be prevalent throughout the game, much like is done at the beginning of an opera or an oratorio.
I also love what you said about story complexity. I've always loved the presentation of the story of this game, not necessarily because of what happens, but because of the emotional resonance that it has. The characters, the sound, the music, the dialogue, everything works not to present a plot that bends your mind around, but something that makes you really feel the emotion of what's going on and what the characters are really feeling. So even if the story is simple, it's still much more memorable than something that has a bunch of twists and turns until it gets to the end. You remember those feelings you felt better than the plot that unfolded.
I really like the discussion about the translation differences
You two are such huge inspirations to me - and to many other hopeful podcasters, I'm sure. I look forward to these every week. Can't wait to hear your takes on the opera scene!
Absolutely loving this series already. Thank you all! Proud to be a Patron!
Really like the discussion about context and taking the game for what it was and acknowledging the technical limitations FF6 had when it was made.
It’s honestly not too dissimilar to comparing different eras of film. Comparing FF6 to modern games is like comparing a silent film to a modern blockbuster, or at least an early black and white film to a modern blockbuster. You look at how radically different early movies were because they were still inventing and discovering the visual language that’s standard practice today.
I get why someone would look at this game and go “what’s the big deal?” In the same way that someone might watch Citizen Kane and go “yeah it’s a solid drama but why does everyone freak out over it?”
You don’t realize that both that film and this game laid the groundwork for storytelling techniques that would become standard practices in their respective mediums.
6 is my favorite of the entire series. Please ignore the vocal minority and continue with your great analysis. I am especially interested in the differences between the JP vs ENG script.
I really love the version of Terra's theme that plays when she wakes up in the bed. It's called "Awakening." Here's why, in as un-spoiler-y a way as I can muster: Before the final battle of the game, each of the characters has a moment to state their reason for living. For the most part, it amounts to what they've learned and/or how they've grown throughout the entire game. A Stanislavskian analysis of the text would call this a Superobjective (or SO). Terra's SO is to know herself, and to know love. Pay close attention to when "Awakening" plays in the game: it mostly plays at introspective moments for her, but especially at moments that deal with her trying to know herself or trying to know love. I'm not sure it's 100% intentional on the creators' part, but the fact that it works so well to be a clue to the audience is so cool to me. The next time it comes up, if I remember correctly, is after the battle in the desert, when Terra, Locke, and Edgar are on chocobos.
Loving the continuation of this series and all the great tidbits about it you guys cover!
love your channel bro!
@@Windraesa thanks, this one is great too!
1:55:31 that whole concept how Casen explained it, Terra feeling “that should have worked on me, but I’m not normal.” About Edgar, and that she actually feels longing, wishing she was normal or could learn to become normal. I relate to that so deeply, not just in my late teenage years but well into my adulthood and only in the past couple years (I’m 32 now) finally began understanding the acceptance and love of myself not being normal in so many ways as others and embracing it and being myself. Feels great. Thank you for that one.
Never too late to have a revelation
Granted I haven't played this game seriously in about 10 years, so I might have forgotten some references or mentions, but the one thing that I felt they dropped the ball was with the slave crown. They mentioned it one time in the first 30 minutes of the game and never mention it again. There were no other people who they used the crown on... They didn't mention where they got the crown... they didn't have anything about whether there were other crowns or whether terra's was the only one... etc.
Why would you want them to mention where they got the crown? The empire created them with their technology, they really don't need more backstory. I agree that it would have been nice to have another one be brought up later in the game though.
The purpose of the "don't attack the boss when it's in this state" tutorial boss is to teach the player about the active time battle system. It made more sense in FFIV, where you didn't see party members' ATB bars, so it wasn't immediately obvious that characters were taking their turns in real time as opposed to queuing up actions like in FF1.
I appreciate all the research and analysis that you guys do, I would never have linked the way the characters reactions were depicted, to the transitions between stories, presentation of the characters and well, the storytelling in general, being so theatre inspired, this makes me interested in replaying it! A
Also, I agree that games don't have to tell complicated or super deep stories to be enjoyable and worthy of recognition, I think the art is in how well can you convey a story so that the audience can enjoy and understand it. Making something easy to understand is often more difficult than making a complicated story in my opinion.
I love how in depth you guys are going with this one.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but when I saw the FFIII commercial in the 90s me and my friend were super pumped about how cool all the monsters looked and how badass Mog sounded. It's likely because of that commercial that Mog was one of my favorite characters in the game. I was super mad when I got a chance to have him join my party but selected the wrong option and missed him. I don't remember if we had to restart or not to get him or if we just reloaded a save. To this day when I replay the game, I name Edgar after myself and Sabin after my friend just as we did in our first playthrough.
If critics scoff at the basicness of 6's plotline, I think they need to keep in mind that games like this were meant to reach a wide range of ages. I was in elementary school the first time I played this game with my Dad. And I absolutely fell in love with it because it was simple enough for a child like me to understand yet rich & deep enough to entice my curiosity about what it all meant. For the parts of the story I wasn't too sure of, my imagination filled in the gaps - my creativity added flavor to the backstory and the character relationships that were missing in the script. Terra's loss of memory now became symbolic of my struggle with depression. Locke saving Terra became the knight in shining armor I always dreamed of saving me from myself. Locke falling for Celes instead of Terra touched on the pain of unrequited love or being friend-zoned. Edgar and Sabin’s relationship reminded me of the emotional distance and personality difference between me and my sister. I used to rename Terra as my first name and Celes as my middle name because they represented two unique sides of my own self. Celes represented my outer self, a strong and beautiful leader who’s loyal to friends and morals. Whereas Terra represented my inner self, fragile and vulnerable but with a radiant power that is on the cusp of being realized and released into the world. Essentially, the script sets the framework for the story but your imagination and personal connection to the characters are what breathe life into the game.
I grew up with the SNES; it’s my favorite video game console, in fact.
Despite the cartridge’s size limitations, it gave us so many timeless games like FFVI, Chrono Trigger, DQ5, Super Mario World, etc.
Let's not forget the first metal album (and, perhaps, THE first metal album) that started off, not only with a portentous bell slowly intoning, but also set during a storm; entitled Black Sabbath, by Black Sabbath, from their eponymous debut album. Amazing start to the album.
Gestal's palace is a Ziggurat. A indsutrial Ziggurat. It's reaching to the heavens with the might of man.
I appreciate you guys going over the translations and texts from the different versions. I only have a copy of FF6 through FF Anthology so it's super awesome to hear everything that's different and what the translations should've/could've been with the version I'm playing. You guys are seriously top tier, can't wait for the next episode
FF Anthology uses Woosley's translation, while the Pixel Remaster uses Slattery's. Each have their charm. Woosley made up a lot of words for this game and made Kefka funny, while Slattery used a more modern and accurate context (sometimes too modern.)
I'll never be able to listen to Terra's theme in the same way again. That link of the marching drums and the contrast with the melancholic melody on top. It defines Terra at the beginning of the story. An object for war, devoid of all sense of individuality, used against her own will for destruction.
awesome work as always. love your approach and dedication to the topic.
Dang, the nostalgia is real with this one. Thanks again for another great analysis vid. Look forward to more.
On the subject of "magic," I'm actually glad you caught on but there are multiple words for magic in Japanese. Mahou (魔法) which just means magic and refers to individual spells or the use of magic while "madou" typically is the reference to the power to use magic (I hope that makes sense but the idea of having the power of magic is a different word from the use of spells). Madou (魔道) which is a more positive word and is the writing used for speaking of mages. Madou (魔導) which has a more negative context and is used in the writing for sorcerer. Almost like there is a bad version of magic and a less bad version (because both are generally feared). FF6 uses the negative context word for madou (and FF in general tends to use this word). This is just not very easy to convey in English although I would have called it spellcraft and sorcery. The Japanese uses mahou and madou so, to avoid calling them both the same thing, I believe Ted decided to use Magitek for Madou and Magic for Mahou? Although I know Magitek Knight is Jinkou Madoushi (人工魔導士) which means artifical (or human engineered) sorcerer so Magitek may also refer to that specifically (it's been a while since I've read the full script in Japanese).
As I commented on the last video; Ted just changed the story around such that the story we played was more so his own creation. The basic elements were all there but the tone was very different. He changed certain things like Tina into Terra because of what he thought would appeal more to western audiences. The name isn't just random though it means two different things. In Latin, it means Earth while in Greek it actually means monster. Monster in Japanese is mamono (魔物) which also just means 'magical creature." Most of what Ted changed was aimed at making the game more lighthearted than it was meant to be but many of these changes were approved rather than just Ted unilaterally deciding on them. There are of course mistakes (like attack when his tail is up) but most of the changes are intentional.
You have to keep in mind that it was a different era of gaming where there were concerns we don't necessarily have today. References to religion or "inappropriately mature subjects" were toned down heavily in US releases unless you had a rating system. Unlike Sega, Nintendo didn't have a rating system until 1994 so they were all pretty much rated G until that point. That makes it hard to translate a game with more mature themes like FF6. At one point in the game there is a puzzle that pretty much gives the players a despairing message when they solve it but Ted changed the message to be extremely humorous. That clashes drastically with the fact that the character sprite emotes a sad look with sad music and yet the message says something ridiculous. That isn't a mistranslation, that is a purposeful change.
The gba version is considered a good translation but it had a lot more to work with in terms of content allowance and space for translation. Nothing evidences this more than the differences between the SNES FF4 game in Japanese versus the US version. This was not just because they couldn't find competent translators but more because of the restrictions imposed on translators at the time. You also can't completely compare because the FF6 gba version even in Japanese cleaned up the script a bit (that's the game I played in Japanese that made me want to translate the original).
***Edited to correct an incorrect statement about the translators for these games***
There's also just a lot that is hard to convey properly to the player. Kefka comes off as random because the Japanese version of Kefka is completely impossible to properly translate without changing a lot of the dialogue. In Japanese there are multiple personal pronouns (the most common ones being "ore," "boku," and "watashi") which people typically use to refer to themselves. People rarely change pronouns mid conversation let alone mid-sentence. Kefka's dialogue is riddled with pronoun changes which gives the idea that he is quite unstable and possibly has multiple personalities. That's just not something you can easily convey in English the same way without massive changes to dialogue content.
I know it can be shocking for a lot of fans who decide they want to study the translation and realize just how much was changed but as someone who has studied it for almost two decades now I've come to appreciate the reasons it is so different. I like the story Square originally told but I think there is a lot of value in the one Ted wrote.
Thank you for your detailed reply! It certainly explains a lot!
Very interesting read, thank you. One criticism that came up in Super Play Magasine in the UK, which as far as I know, was the first major publication to focus on JRPGs and allowed us to know about these great games, was the “Americanisms” that Ted put in fairly liberally. It’s a long time ago, but “way to go” was one in Secret of Mana that I still cringe at. They could very grating for Brits at the time, and did detract from the gaming experience by making serious moments lighter than they should be.
On another note: We never got FF3 (6) in the UK. I had to import the American cartridge and play it on a fire fx adapter which added in lots of extra bugs like file slots being deleted if you saved for over 3 hours on them, or the menu item screen becoming black at random points so you had no idea what was being selected.
The most annoying of which was the ending screen turning to black after gogo’s eyes with the music still playing. It was like reading an engrossing book with the large few pages being ripped out. Super Play actually printed the ending in one issue. I needed up buying an American snes just to see that great ending.
Anyway, It says something in Ted’s favour for the translation that he managed to keep the essence of the story, characters and dialogue, under the constraints that he was working in.
Interesting that Casen mentions Metallica's "For Whom the Bell Tolls" when analyzing the opening scene. That is the 3rd track on Metallica's 2nd studio album "Ride the Lightning". FFVI opens with a shot of a thunderstorm and then a bell tolling during the opening exposition scenes. So either Uematsu must be a Metallica fan or this is one hell of a coincidence.
As a metalhead I'm gonna believe it's the former 🤘
For Whom The Bell Tolls is a really clear inspiration for Fight On! as well, so I always get a little excited when a fan mentions it :P
@ReloadPsi Fight On is such an amazing track. Definitely Metallica cues in there no doubt
From xenogears to this is what finally inspired me to write the story in my head ive held onto for 20 years. Doing this kind of thing in a serious manner is such a good thing
Keep at it. These works of art are monumental
@@kylechwk once I watched the whole xenogears break down it finally helped me see how to write characters compelling enough for my story to work. And if it helped mike with his book, why not mine
@@sonnieandjacob Right? Sometimes analysis from a certain person really helps.
Watching (actually listening while driving) to this series is better than I replay this game myself. One of my most most favourite games of all times.
Thank you for doing such a deep insight broadcast.
Just joined your patreon channel, amazing works
The "theatrical play" presentation is spot on, and also something Akitoshi Kawazu held onto as he split off into the SaGa Series. SaGa cutscenes begin and end very suddenly, and having short dialogues full of charm but lacking in information . In contrast to this, the world's these characters live in have rich histories and cosmologies that are eagerly handed out to the player. Kawazu wanted to give the player something close to a tabletop roleplaying experience by letting them fill in the blanks with their imagination. What a character says and does, or the minutiae of the plot were largely up to the player with cutscenes being like notes of a script to set the stage. It makes me wonder if the theatrical presentation came across easier to japanese players from that era for some cultural reason, or more of a thing shared amongst the creatives at Squaresoft.
Also nice jacket Mike.
1:28:40 I never interpreted Locke's reaction like that. Magitek soldier storming Narshe was a big news event and Locke finding out this guy got involved was likely shocking and since the Narshe city guards are looking for Terra, it's also very dangerous.
Biggs and Wedge are in Norstein Bekklers Lab in the Millennial Fair in Chrono Trigger. And yea I think a developer said that.
The Sun Also Rises by Ernest Hemingway is a really good analogy for FF6 when it comes to the literature world. The word count is half or one third other great works of fiction but it's regarded just as highly as those other works. Nobody who analyzes literature says the story is too short or simple. It's a pity that many have this attitude towards role playing games.
War and Peace has 587,000 words, and sun Also rises has 67,000 words. Yet those two are equally revered in literature.
Very happy you mentioned that "feel" when you go from the Narshe submap into the overworld. I have such a fondness for that early overworld exploration of the game. The colors are stunning for 16 bit pixel art, just the way the water pixels reflect light (goes white) and "move" still stick to me today. And, that overworld theme. After the dreary Nasrhe theme, the "Terra" overworld theme kicking in definitely is in line with the 'Let's Go!" feeling.
First entering the world map: “LET’s GOOO!”
LOL the bell curve thing was hilarious. Great (second episode) start to the series
Great that you mention the formal framing of the game as a stage production. This is reflected largely in the masterful finale theme incorporating every theme, and the heightened passion and drama within the story. Think of Terra and Celes, limited emotionally and learning to open up over the course of the story.
Also, appreciate the reference to the Clyde mandelin stuff, am going to read about how Locke was altered.
Shoutouts to all the Tinas out there!
On the topic of world maps, chasing Ultima Weapon around and leading it to Cosmo Canyon for Cloud's weapon is one of my fondest memories from that design.
Unless someone already mentioned it, characters with the names Biggs and Wedge do appear in Chrono Trigger. You encounter them inside Norstein Bekkler's Lab/Tent of Horrors thing as part of the guessing game. Are they the same characters from FFVI? That's probably up to the player to decide. Gilgamesh might know.
Good call, I knew they were there, but couldn’t remember.
You guys deserve more views than every gaming related channel out right now.
the length of the videos make them quite a commitment though, so I don't blame people who don't watch, especially when they're not interested in the game being scrutinized.
It's not Kefka that says "Fire! Fire! Heh, heh heh..." it's the guard standing next to him. Actually, I think both guards say it if you talk to them. I also am not sure how I feel about pop culture references in Final Fantasy but having an unnamed character(s) do it instead of the main villain is far more forgivable.
Love the music u choose for the background always love these podcasts
Really glad to see you guys mention that broiling rivalry between square and enix back in the day. Adds extra context for sure!
I recently played FF6 for the first time and put a good bit of time into it(close to 80 hours I think) with side quests n such. Ive been watching some retrospectives on it and came to learn that there is actually A LOT of extra scenes and scenarios with character backstory and development that are miss-able. Not only that, but your actions and dialogue alter some of the outcomes for these scenarios quite drastically in ways I didn't expect. Needless to say, I was absolutely blown away by FF6, even after all these years. Super excited for the podcasts. I hope everyone playing along enjoys it as much as I did.
Another great song with bells that I think goes well with this game: Hallowed Be Thy Name by Iron Maiden.
Best tangents ever. Thanks y'all!
1:56:02 If you love Coin Song I really recommend the acoustic guitar remix "A Simple Flip can Change Fate" by Level 99. Came out a decade ago on OCR's Balance & Ruin album - a great collection of FF6 arrangements. If you never downloaded it before, it's worth checking out for "Nightmare Oath" & "Impresario" alone, which warp the opera tunes into sweet rock opera bangers :P
Balance and Ruin is such a great reimagining of the soundtrack.
Love that Rock Opera!
The way Biggs, Wedge, and Terra enter into frame in a static shot is really masterful. The slow pan down is dream-like, and then the quick jerky motions of the characters contrasts with that and puts us on the ground. There's also a strange sense of inevitability to it, too. Like the shot is from the perspective of some watcher who won't even try to do anything about it.
Regarding 1:46:10 and the overworld map: After the failure of Spirits Within and Sakaguchi "taking responsibility/retiring/being forced out", the new top management stated that "action/adventure" was the future and also "increased focus on profitability" was the new company direction to make up the loss. This was the start of the major shift in design philosophy and well as the start of many departures of top senior talent.
There were games already in dev that this only affected in minor ways but it is the reason for many of the major design changes that followed. 12's use of "AI" so that the focus was only on the one controlled character. 13's extremely linear gameplay and sequels galore. 14 going back to the MMO well. The colab with Disney for KH and remaster after remaster to milk wherever possible.
In a nutshell, management gave up on RPG's and has been chasing the new hotness to this day.
I think a lot of Amano arts styles lives today in FFXIV. The Amano's magitek armor is one of the first mount you get in the game and a lot of the Empire is based on this style.
Hearing that the gba translation is a bit cleaner/better than the og translation makes me actually want to play it. Might actually play along this time! Happy to be a patron guys :) keep up the good work!
The pixel remaster uses the same translation also.
@@Morokiane good to know! Thanks :)
Loved your initial thoughts about storytelling Mike! I often feel that the desire to be complex can sometimes hamper the execution of a game's narrative. The execution of a story (the success or failure of conveying your intended meaning) is what matters most in my view =) And Casen, that was an amazing breakdown of the game's opening cutscene! I'd never made that connection with the 2001 theme before, so that blew my mind. Bravo, both of you =D
And Mike's spot-on in his comparison to theatre! That's really the basis for classic JRPG cutscenes (and the techniques used in these cutscenes) all around, in my view.
I used to work at a theatre as an assistant for the scene builder (don't recall the correct title of this job). The theatre was a smaller one, and the budget was super tight, which led to creativity galore. Good times.
I'm not sure if it's been posted or not, but I believe the names Celes and Tina were chosen because of the title of an opera "La Celestina". The opera (and the work it's based on) have nothing to do with either character, but I don't think it is too far fetched that this is another example of "Wow that name sounds cool!" for the Square devs.
Thank you for mentioning the importance of abstraction in games. People are forgetting how powerful this is for immersion/ suspension of disbelief/ gameplay.
We interact with games through button presses and images on a screen. We NEED layers of abstraction to make that experience feel real.
Everyone seems to be going in the opposite direction only focusing on "realism". That's how we end up with technically impressive but ultimately meaningless, unengaging and frankly tiresome things like VR.
(... Ok. Maybe it's some buyer's remorse speaking hehe)
Really great analysis. FF VI is my favourite game. I loved every moment of this. Eagerly waiting for the next episode! Go suplex that train!!
PS1 and all consoles prior had such a deep connection to using one’s imagination to believe in the story you were experiencing. I wish that were still the case.
A few quick comments about this section of the game (some positive and negative):
1. I am a person who would skip the snow scene, cut it drastically, or change up the cinematography to make it more visually interesting. I think it's good specifically for the Snes era but doesn't really hold up due to how repetitive it is.
2. I can understand why Woolsey decided to change Locke's characterization in regards to Terra's recruitment to add a little bit of extra drama right off the bat. Locke, in the original translation, can be read as superstitious of magic like most citizens of the world would be, and can be read as hating the empire so much for their terrible crimes, like the murders Terra committed. In the same way that Vaan had his irrational hatred of Baasch even after learning the truth about him, it's showing Locke being overcome with emotion and not thinking rationally, as many in a passionate war might be inclined to be. Thus, seeing Locke warm up to Terra and protect her in spite of his prejudices immediately shows him to be a compassionate character with ultimately a good heart, even if he is a thief (treasure hunter).
3. The moogle fight is by far the best part of FFVI. Any criticism I may have about the game is completely out the window for this sequence. 11/10, GOTY stuff, magnum opus, brilliant. If all of FFVI reached the heights of this sequence it would be my favorite piece of media in human history.
4. Edgar is great, fantastic character.
I imagine in general I won't have as much to say about this game but I'm definitely looking forward to listening to the podcast each week and contributing in the comments if I feel I have something worthwhile to add.
I can't wait for next week!
On the topic of FF6 sales, just to clarify, it was a commercial success in Japan. But in North America, I guess Square didn't consider it a commercial success even though it sold ~460K copies on the SNES in 1994. I mean.. for a niche genre at the time, that's not too bad. So my thinking is that there is a bit of that famous "Square expectations" thing happening. We know Square really wanted to break into the North American market, and probably had high hopes for FF6. But then, makes you wonder what they thought of Chrono Trigger then, because it sold ~280K on the SNES in 1995.. so was that just a total commercial failure then? I dunno.. Square gonna be Square I guess. :D At least in the subsequent years since its release, FF6 has proved itself to sell very well in North America (there is a quote by Sakaguchi about this as well that he was surprised at how well the initial remaster for Steam/mobile sold in the west).
Outstanding work as always guys. Also, in regard to Amano's art being interpreted as closely as possible in 3D, this is something XIV does very well; particularly in Shadowbringers!
I was thinking the same thing. That and Dissidia both take a lot of influence from Amano's style.
I would argue that the best type of overworld is Dragon Quest 8. It's a fully functional overworld that you can explore _at scale_ (i.e. at the same scale that towns and dungeons are explored), but it also serves the same purpose as overworlds in classic SNES JRPGs at the same time. It's the perfect balance of modern "open worlds" and classic overworlds.
Now that we're on the subject - you guys should do an analysis of DQ8! You should cover Dragon Quest more in general.
1:03:00 no he's right. Biggs and wedge are in one of the mini games at the millennial fair, in norstein becklers tent. They were disappeared from ff6 and landed in chrono trigger
The decompressed storytelling of modern RPGs is what made me fall out of them so hard. The stories of Chrono Trigger and FFVI, as well as the majority of the Squaresoft SNES library, hold up so well becuase the compressed storytelling gives you just enough to stoke your imagination then forces you to emotionally fill in the blanks.
Also, Ted's interpretation of Kefka is so well loved and iconic that it has filtered back into Japan and has had more of an influence on Kefka's interpretation in the multiverse games than his depiction in the original Japanese.
Edits:
The PS1 games are relocalization and bugfix pairings for 1+2, 4+CT, and 5+6
All of the CG intros for the PS1 ports are worth watching, but FF2 is the only one that works as an intro instead of a trailer, so its the only one I recc watching right before playing.
Big and Wedge are in CT, but they're easter eggs. The three soldiers in Norstein Beckler's circuis tent are Biggs, Wedge, and Pierre (the last one a mistranslation of Piett, another Star Wars character).
While the stories do not line up to any meaningful degree, it can't be a coincodence that Final Fantasy VI's front-runners for main characters are Celes and Tina in a very theatrical game and the play Celestina.
Even the exaggerated emotes used in FFVI feel tame compared to the wide sweeping gestures and chewing of scenery you get in most dramatic plays.
The more I read up on Ted's translation of FFVI and other games is that I feel like that he might not be the best under pressure in that he either starts cutting a lot of corners (SaGa III, BoF) or just rewrites everything taking only loose inspiration (FFVI). You can also see his own writing sense as he was writer for Mystic Quest who turned Chihiro Fujioka and Yoshihiko Maekawa's outline into a game script.
The only reason why I gave Final Fantasy VI the time of day as a kid was becuase it was the sequel to FFIV (The FFII and FFIII US release titles... yeah), which in turn I only played FFIV because I played FFI on the NES. FFI's cover was evocative but I only even asked for that becuase my brother had a subscription to Nintendo Power and the strategy guide for FFI hooked me. I was just old enough to get the sense that "okay I really like this game, the game with the 2 after its name is probably gonna be as good if not better".
Mog is also the only moogle with a command ability.
I love overworld maps. I miss them so much in AAA RPGs.
Becuase of the genre's roots in tabletop RPGS, it is not unfair to equate each "tile" of map on the overworld to a "hex" on the map when doing overland exploration in D&D. Each hex is a chance for a random event during exploration, aftrall. This means each step on the overworld abstracts six miles (2-3 hours) of travel in the world of the game.
This will probably be more releveant later, but for now I want to note that Sabin's Japanese name is Macías Rene Figaro, nicknamed "Mash".
Yup. I find that stories are MORE memorable when I have to use a considerable amount of imagination. That element of filling the blanks of the world and what the characters say off screen is what allows a greater emotional connection between me and that world, because it becomes a bit of "my" world rather than simply one presented to me. People are quick to put this on "nostalgia" but I think this is why these early gen games were so memorable in every single scene.
As nerd as it sounds, FF6 opened me up to the intricacies of story and characters.It will always maintain it's impact.
Cheers guys, enjoying the playthrough so far. The differences between versions is quite the rabbit hole. I'm playing the PS1 version so having the context from the later translation is useful.
90's RPG "We made all this cool stuff, we need to give the players a way to find it"
2000's games "We made all this open empty space, lets add in random crap to collect and kill so the game feels longer"
You guys are legend. I love these FF retrospective so much! I was like you Mike, FF7 was my first one and I loved it soooo much that it made me go back and play all of the previous games! Man this vids brings me back to the good old days. Loved FF8 & FF10 analysis and loving this so far! Thanks 👊
That Napoleon Dynamite reference was great. Haha!
It was really smart to introduce two of the lighthearted characters, Locke and Edgar, after having such a dark intro. As a kid I always liked getting to this point and having a bit of levity.
It’s 2am Thursday morning, LET’s GOOOOO!!!!
I really felt what you guys were saying about names in JRPGs being more elaborate in English when I played the PS4 remaster of Final Fantasy Type-0 vs the PSP fan translation. (a really underrated game in my opinion, one that deserves a look from you guys one day)
Just as an example, you had the 4 kindoms being renamed where instead of just "Suzaku" or "Byakko" you have things like "the Dominon of Rubrum" and "the "Militesi Empire".
I've noticed it a lot in the Tales of series too.
That’s because all of that English dramaticness is contained in the Japanese already. It doesn’t need to describe itself, it’s audiance already knows
"Play up to the end of the Phantom Train sequence" needs context on the off chance someone is playing the game for the first time, or doesn't remember...
The game splits into three scenario's at one point. You can choose which order to play them in. The Phantom Train is part of Sabin's Scenario.
I think Mike means to pick Sabin's scenario first and leave the other two for later.
They don't reach there in the next episode anyway, they only get as far as getting on the raft.
Great, now that I learned Kefka's Fire! Fire! reference, I'm always going to be reading his dialog in Beavis' voice. Thanks a lot
That comment about the Xenogears box art and the cross blew my mind. I had never looked at it like that before. Also, the Japanese box art is JUST the giant X/cross with the title copy in front of it.
Yes! Again. I'll say it every week.
Take as long as you need this game derserves it. I love this podast no one breaks it down like you two.
awesome episode fellas! still love the content!
Just realized, Edgar is Batman
and Kefka his Joker
If only Batman had the guts to pack a chainsaw. He’d skin your ass raw.
I think a lot of people just don't realize how little space the snes really had on its carts. I think it maxed at 5mb. Ff6 was at the thick end of that and the size of the games were doubling with every game or so. Then game size ballooned with the Playstation. Ff7 had 3 disc's and each one could hold around 650mb at the time.
It's kind of a miracle that they could get as much into ff6 as they did. They had to convey a lot of story through the vapor of nuance.
One of my fav pop culture references in ff6 is when Edgar uses the chain saw sometimes he auto kills with it, and the saw is a modern chain saw and he dons a hockey mask.
Also I had NO CLUE that Kefka line was quoting Bevis and Butthead. Flew right over my head as a kid.
Thanks for the info about the best translation for ff6. I picked up a copy of FF6 Advance to see for myself since the only version I have ever played was the SNES one.
There was a time when FF6 was my favorite Final Fantasy game. It's been only surpassed by FF9 for me, and I beat the game about 20 times, having played about once or twice a year from 1996 to 2014. But, I have not played the game since 2014 out of fear that nostalgia I would not think it's a fantastic game. That it's simplicity is just something the 38 year old me who has played nearly 200 JRPGs would fine underwhelming.
Thanks to this podcast series, I finally took the plunge to replay the game for the first time in 10 years. And, thanks in no small part to you guys, I am actually enjoying the game EVEN MORE than I rememeberd it - I can't believe how good this game was and good how it still is. All my fears were completely wrong. Keep up the amazing, insightful analysis, teaching me so many new things about a game I've finished 20 times.
I absolutely love revisiting the old classics; trying to play them with an open mind free of nostalgia. Honestly, 6 still holds up really, really well in storytelling.
Parts of 7 were not as impactful as when I was a kid, but some really still impressed me, like when you’re in cloud’s memories with tifa in the lifestream. 9 is still fantastic and I like a fair bit of 8’s dialogue still, despite its story oddities. Play them all over! They’re still really good :)
@@Postumeartist definitely! I have replayed the rest recently. 6 was my only holdout.
very interesting to listen