Final Fantasy VI Analysis (Ep.9): Locked Away | State Of The Arc Podcast
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- Опубликовано: 16 июл 2024
- As Celes continues her quest to gather her lost friends--scattered across the four corners of the world--she begins to gain hope and strength. The party grows even larger as we find a few new friends. In this episode, we gather up all the cast and get ready for our final showdown with Kefka.
Time Codes:
1. Intro (0:00)
2. Crumbs (1:07)
3. Cyan (6:40)
4. Gau (17:05)
5. Terra (25:50)
6. Relm (45:00)
7. Shadow (49:20)
8. Locke (1:01:00)
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Игры
Kaori Tanaka / Soraya Saga on Gau and his relationship to Sabin and Cyan:
“Sabin, Gau, and Cyan act as a surrogate family for each other: it’s two children who have lost their fathers, and one father who has lost his child. Sabin, in particular, sees an aspect of himself in Gau. And they both share that connection to nature and what is natural. Terra senses that in Sabin when she calls him a “docile bear.” And he does kind of look like a big cuddly bear, doesn’t he? (laughs)”
Thats beautiful
Mike: This will be the final episode for Final Fantasy VI.
Me: Alright, see you next week for more Final Fantasy VI!
@Marcus Todd they do that alot I hear?t
@@paulsmith9192 It's kind of a running joke at this point that they never get as far as they planned lol. It's a good thing though. It only happens because they take their time and do good analysis and in the end we just get more content.
@Marcus Todd just a shame its only once a week
@@paulsmith9192it used to be once a month
My favorite unconfirmed/speculative FF VI fan theory is "Baram became Kefka." There isn't a lot to it, but a few bread crumbs make it more than nothing.
1 - Baram is afraid of what the Empire will do to him if captured and begs for death, and we also know that Kefka went crazy after being experimented on. This is contradicted by the NPC who says Kefka was just a regular soldier before going crazy, but that could just be an Imperial propaganda cover story...
2 - Baram and Kefka both have intense reactions to seeing their own blood spilled. AFAIK they're the only two characters that specifically remark on seeing their own blood in the game.
3 - It's vague, but it does feel like Shadow has a "thing" about Kefka. On the Floating Continent he comes out of nowhere to take Kefka on solo, and his choice at the very end of the game to go down with Kefka's Tower (and his monologue to Baram) makes a bit more sense if finishing off Kefka was also his way of settling his score with Baram (finally giving Baram/Kefka the release that Clyde/Shadow couldn't do in his previous life).
4 - Shadow's decision to hide his identity and erase his past takes on a new meaning with this hypothesis. Imagine how he'd feel knowing that his weakness and inability to grant Baram's request made him (albeit indirectly) responsible for the creation of the Empire's greatest monster.
5 - Kefka's cynicism about friendship, loyalty, and the usefulness of trusting (or caring about) other people takes on a new dimension if he has a distant (or subliminal, assuming he can't remember his previous life) memory of being betrayed by his best friend in his time of ultimate need, and being tortured and experimented on as a result.
Again, all highly speculative but that's part of what makes FF VI fun. The limitations of the SNES system and short development cycle forced the game to use a lot of subtle hints and implications, so it's a rich game for fan theory-crafting.
Baram having become Kefka would be so good. Up there with “Ultimecia is actually Rinoa” in fan theories that wasn’t intended but would have enriched the work if it actually was the case.
It's a cool theory, but it seems unlikely to me that someone captured by the Empire as a prisoner would somehow manage to become second in command after Ghestal.
There is another clue about Realm/Shadow; the Memento Ring accessory can only be worn by the two of them, and its description talks about a departed mothers love.
This is what confirmed it to me, on my first play through.
There's enough hints about Shadow and Relm's relationship that it's basically confirmed, but I like that they never explicitly confirm it in the main storyline because it's a nice reward for those paying close attention to details. (Something that a lot of stories are hesitant to do these days).
Here are all the clues:
1. Relm comes equipped with a Relic called "Memento Ring". The item description text describes it as an heirloom from her mother: "A Ring blessed by departed mother's love". Shadow is the only other character who can equip the Memento Ring. (Strago can't)
2. Despite being aggressive towards strangers, Interceptor is affectionate towards Relm immediately when you meet her in Thamasa.
3. The 4th dream shows Clyde (Shadow) leaving a town, and if you can remember the layout of the map you'll realize that it's Thamasa.
4. If you don't save Shadow on the floating continent, Relm will be recruited in the cave on the Veldt, where Shadow would be otherwise.
5. During the "cast roll" during of the ending credit's sequence, for each character you didn't find in the world of ruin you get a little "hint" of where you need to go to recruit them. Shadow's hint shows the town of Thamasa, even though that's not where you actually find him. (Veldt cave, Colosseum)
6. Speaking of the cast roll, the characters are all shown in a specific order based on the story. Twin brothers Edgar and Sabin, romantic pair Celes and Locke, best friends Mog and Umaro, etc. After Relm is shown, you would expect it to be Strago next, but Shadow comes right after Relm and then Strago after Shadow.
Bonus: In the CG cutscene created for the Playstation port, one scene shows Shadow surrounded by ghosts on the Phantom Train. Before he attacks them, the screen zooms in on his face and flashes to a picture of Relm's artwork for exatcly TWO FRAMES. Something almost no one noticed until the video was uploaded to youtube and we could go frame by frame lol.
Finally, some more trivia about #1, the Memento Ring. You can find another Memento Ring hidden in a wall on the 2nd floor of Strago/Relm's house in Thamasa. Since Relm comes with a ring already equipped, it implies that this 2nd ring belonged to Clyde and that he left it behind as part of him "killing his emotions". Or perhaps he hid it there with the intention of reclaiming it someday when he felt he could atone for what happened to Baram.
Also, you can steal a 3rd Memento Ring from the Boss in Cyan's dream sequence, "Wrexsoul". Cyan can't equip it though, but the description text and the boss you get it from would imply that it was meant to be from his wife to their son.
IIRC there was a planned but not developed scene where Strago confronts Shadow and demands he reveal his face.
The Memento Piece is the biggest clue to be sure.
@@ChadiusThis. The idea was Strago wanted confirmation for Relm's sake, the screen goes black, presumably Shadow shows his face to him, and Strago thanks him.
OMG, I realized that Wrexsoul having the 3rd Memento Ring is giving more weight to the theory that Shadow's ex- wife / Relm's mother is also Cyan's wife (Elayne). She left Shadow, went to Doma, fell in love with Cyan and had Owain with him... Maybe her leaving Shadow is another trauma that made Shadow want to "kill his emotions", what happened with Baram was just the nail in the coffin (especially if Baram is Kefka)... Maybe she left when she learned he was a criminal and she didn't want to be on the run all her life after his big train-robbing success... Plus it would explain Cyan's more magical Bushidos (his 3rd, 5th, 6th and 8th) : since as a survivor from the Magi (I think she was Strago's daughter) she tried to teach him some of her spells (Demi/Rasp, Drain/Osmose, Stop and Death) that he only managed to somehow use by merging them with his sword techniques.
The only weird thing is why would she abandon baby Relm... ...Maybe Elayne was struck with the same "disease" as Gau's father at the time, but at least Strago was there to save Relm (and Cyan was there to save Elayne) while poor Gau and his father didn't have anyone to help them. Also interesting that Baram ended up killing the woman Shadow loved (or should I say "loves" - it's very hard to 100% kill such a powerful feeling as love) by poisoning the river, and that Shadow was there when it happened (if you recruited him as Sabin in his scenario, that is). Further punishment for Clyde/Shadow for not having killed Baram. And very interesting relationship between Cyan and Shadow there : kinda love-rivals first, then kind-of bros after her murder. A really strange bromance (at least from Shadow's side if he can still feel something - Cyan's feelings towards Shadow would depend whether he knew that Shadow indirectly caused the fall of his kingdom and the death of his family... ...but I think he would forgive Shadow even if he knew because I don't think Cyan could have killed a friend in cold blood either, and it wasn't Shadow who "pulled-the-trigger" so to speak. Plus Cyan feels that he failed Elayne, Owain and his kingdom too, so as two men whose failures had terrible consequences, I think they would bond. And they loved the same woman...
There is also Relm's dream connected to the Shadow's dream you mentioned in your 3rd clue. If you didn't save Shadow, you can see Relm's dream. You see Relm crying, asking Strago where did her Papa go. You see Interceptor look outside the window, barks and went outside Strago's house and the dream ends. This dream continues through Shadow's dream if you save him in the floating continent where you can see Interceptor going after Shadow and him asking Interceptor to stay with the girl.
Back with another comment about music as storytelling: I love the scene after Rachel is briefly resurrected. Upstairs, Celes is just just awkwardly hanging out in a corner by the stairs. She timidly approaches Locke to sort of feel out his thoughts, and he says he's all right. But then he turns around to face her, and his theme starts. That cue at least suggests to me that he's not lying about being all right. He says he's lighter than air, and he's telling the truth. I also like how, throughout the Phoenix Cave, we had hints that Locke was there because of all of the empty treasure chests. In the scene in Kohlingen, Locke gives the treasures to Celes. Sure, the whole party will share them, but the gesture of him giving everything to her is really nice. It's like he's saying that she's his new adventuring partner, and he can finally give everything to her, now that his burden of guilt has been lifted. (-Michael)
I remember thinking as a kid, in my first playthroughs of FF6, that Realm was Shadow's daughter. Between the Memento ring, the interactions with Interceptor, and one of Shadow's dreams that shows Clyde having been from Thamasa, it was pretty heavily implied.
One thing that often gets missed in discussions about FF6 -- obviously there were games before FF6 that had secrets, but FF6 really felt like it took that idea to a completely new level. The open-world design of the World of Ruin, with all its optional content on top of many other actual secrets had the early CompuServe / AOL era of the internet gaming boards buzzing sharing info. Because you had so many things like the Shadow's Dreams, Desperation Attacks (that a lot of people never saw), Dinosaur island, getting the Chainsaw, upgrading Odin to Raiden, the craziness in the Colosseum... that made it easy to believe things like the rumors that there was a secret way to revive General Leo.
It's the first game I remember going back to for years to find all the secrets and hidden content that people were still digging up.
To me ff6 is the pinnacle. Yes, other FF games did some parts better like FF7 which was very cinematic, but overall I think FF6 is the most fleshed out and deep game of the entire series.
Some extra areas of interest before the finale that could be worth discussing are the Ancient Castle under Figaro and Strago's quest in Thamasa/Ebots Rock. Ancient Castle doesn't have a lot of story but is kind of interesting lore-wise. You can start it by traveling via Figaro Castle. Don't leave without finding the secret switch in the throne room. Keep Terra in the party for this one, as it's thematically relevant to her storyline, even if she only has one or two extra lines of dialogue.
If you go back to Thamasa with Strago and Relm you can start a sidequest where they hunt for the monster Hidon at Ebot's Rock. There are some great funny scenes in this quest and it gives Strago and Relm something extra to do, as they aren't all that involved in the main storyline. I just thought I'd mention them for you or anyone else who is playing through as they're easily missable.
It's where you get Strago's ultimate spell, Grand Train.
On Gogo and Umaro:
"-Finally, what can you tell us about Gogo and Umaro?
Staff: Umaro was originally a character who wandered around the world map. You could meet him in a random encounter, and catch him with bait, much like the event with Gau on the Veldt.
During the development, Gogo was actually a lot harder to find. He was a mysterious character who wandered between the different pubs in the World of Ruin, disguised as one of the main characters who you hadn’t yet got to rejoin the party. For example, he might be disguised as Locke in one town, and if the players tried to talk to him thinking it was Locke, they’d only get rude, curt responses from him. After the player gets the real Locke, if they realize something is weird and come back to that pub and talk to the fake/disguised Locke, he would reveal his true self and join the party as Gogo. The pub he appeared at would change on a timer, though, and he’d also change which person he was disguised as. Tracking him down was very difficult."
I can't find the source, but I feel like the reason Umaro / Gogo were originally added was because they wanted you to have three full parties for the last part of the game, even if Shadow died.
It’s worth saying, “locke’s theme” and “forever rachel” share a musical motif, I think it’s kinda telling that Locke’s theme covers the song that defines his pain with a cheerful front
They are pretty much major/minor key mirror images of each other, which is wonderful for the storytelling. And this isn't the last comparison of Locke's theme that will occur...
I absolutely love Terra’s growth. The obvious resolution to her character was for her to have some boring love story shoe-horned in that doesn’t really work.
The fact that the devs chose that her search for love would end with her discovering her maternal side is just perfect. Nothing makes you feel the need to protect and show love then a child. She was focused on getting that feeling. But the best way to get that feeling is to give it to those who need it.
I read something interesting about how to gain rapport with people at a new job, and they said one of the best ways to get people to like you is to get them to do a small favour for you. There’s something weird about being needed by someone else that endears us to those in need. And of course kids are really really cute… when they’re not frustrating and annoying lol.
On shadow: I think it was intentional that his relationship to the characters was so vague. I agree that rather than being confused initially, it would’ve been better character-wise if he just turned and left the room whenever interceptor goes off to Relm rather than acting confused. Just avoiding his emotions instead of confronting them.
But I appreciate that they make it really difficult to find. The joy of experiencing FF6 in the “pre-gamefaqs” day was finding all this hidden lore and character development. There was a real sense of discovery where your reward wasn’t just equipment, but real attachment to the characters. It’s much better that it left it up to your imagination rather than stating it all to the player.
With Locke:
I always thought that Celes was his choice and he wanted to move on, but because of how he failed Rachel, he was afraid he would fail Celes too in the same way. With Rachel he hesitated for a split second whereas with Celes he didn’t hesitate to save her, without thinking of himself. Hence the ending sequence where Locke doesn’t make the same mistake twice.
Not that he would have chose Celes over Rachel necessarily if they were both alive, but the hope that he could make up for what happened with Rachel stopped him from moving on. If something happened to my wife in this life, especially something I could’ve prevented, I would never be able to move on if there was a chance I could do something to bring her back. It does miss out on a powerful message there, but I get why Locke can’t accept losing her. Maybe if the Phoenix didn’t work at all, not even for a moment, and he then chose to move on himself, like Casen said or if he just had the opportunity to say he was sorry and she didn’t say anything about moving on (like she was just a vision and couldn’t speak). Or she could have said like “Locke, all this time, you already knew what I would’ve wanted for you, why do you need me to tell you?..” and then tell him he needs to let go.
I love this podcast and usually I go rambling for so long but this time I will only mention this. The scene of Gau and his father is one of the few scenes which really got me emotional. Even by today standards, I think it is one of the best moments in FF6. It is so well done with artistic elegance and tact. Children being raised in complete abandonment of parents and/or love is something that many of us can relate to. Gau being this seemingly beast child (but with the eyes of a genius) acting as the better person by forgiving his father and surviving on his own is extremely powerful.
Just my two cents since I feel like you guys didnt go too much over his scene in this video. Not blaming you since you are taking on so many details and lore that I missed with all the rest of the game! Great job and thanks for the analysis
I think the Gau scene is one of the best scenes in FFVI. It's fantastic.
Another interesting piece of obscure lore: if you return to the Solitary Island, you'll find a piece of magicite (Palidor in SNES, Quetzalli in GBA) washed up on the beach where Celes found the injured bird.
The Esper this piece of magicite summons is a bird, which is a little too much of a coincidence. Could this be a hint that the (seemingly random) bird that inspires Celes to rejoin the fight was more than meets the eye?
No canon confirmation of this of course, just another bread crumb.
After thinking a little bit more about this section of the game, and inspired by Dude McGuy's brilliant insight about the World of Ruin as being the "reverse" of the World of Balance in some very key ways, it made me notice that this section of the game ("Searching for Friends") has an implicit theming of the subterranean or the repressed world coming to light. In terms of gameplay, we have the eight dragons who are set free after the cataclysm and who are roaming the world; in terms of story, we have increasing emphasis on dreams and unresolved and repressed trauma (Shadow, Cyan), as well as more and more examples of exploring caverns / the underground (the Odin magicite side quest).
If we use the analogy of the World of Balance as being akin to the human mind, precariously balanced between the forces of order and chaos, then the World of Ruin is the unconscious run amok as a result of the disturbance of the initial order. I might have mentioned this before, but we see a new, though shadow-y, example of "balance" between order and chaos in Kefka's regime, where he is the unquestioned ruler over a fractured, dissonant world.
I think it's interesting also that the entire World of Ruin segment of the game has the incredibly iconic symbol of Kefka's Tower looming in the background. If we analyze the symbolism of the Tower, especially as it stands in the tarot deck, it seems quite apt for this segment of the game, particularly *misery, distress, calamity, ruin, and unforeseen catastrophe* (upright) and following this, *negligence, absence, apathy, nullity, vanity* (reversed).
"According to A. E. Waite's 1910 book The Pictorial Key to the Tarot, the Tower card is associated with:
16. THE TOWER.-- Misery, distress, indigence, adversity, calamity, disgrace, deception, ruin. It is a card in particular of unforeseen catastrophe. Reversed: Negligence, absence, distribution, carelessness, distraction, apathy, nullity, vanity."
It sounds like you all missed the most useful relic in the game.
If you search the wall right behind mog you get the moogle charm which when equipped gives your party no random encounters.
I always thought the memento ring was the confirmation
Yup. 2 rings as if wedding rings.
On the subject of Relm and Shadow being related. The memento ring should help strengthen any connection for the player. The ring can be found in Thamasa and can only be equipped by Shadow and Relm. The description of that item? "Ring blessed by departed mother's love". Helps really strengthen the dream segments and interceptor stuff
Just because you love someone new doesnt mean you love who was taken any less, especially in a world where you know a relic exists that can right the wrong that was done. Rachel wasnt a better love than celes just a different one. Her existing doesnt mean he didnt have a promise to keep to Rachel being a man of his word. It also doesnt mean he dishonored celes by trying to fulfill it. Letting go of the pain from the tragic and sudden loss of someone who was taken from you isnt easy to do. Trust me, its the hardest thing you will ever do because it feels like forgetting them.
1:07:45 Casen saying: "It's a game, you have to so stuff like this" undermines the great work you guys do with the podcast series for me. It's not the first time Casen has done same or similiar comments and it really feels bad for me since I really feel like these classic RPGs are not "just games", but often profound pieces or art.
Maybe I overanalyzed this tiny comment but still felt the need to express this.
Awesome podcast series! Never would have thought that FF6 would have enough substance for ending up being 9 parts ^^
I think I understand what you mean, if it was a book or a movie there wouldn't be second thoughts, but even people that love games and appreciate the stories, art and music, can still have even unconciously a bit of the "it's just a game" thing, like when people see an animated movie that has some plot hole or a little flaw and thinks "it's a cartoon, it's just for kids, right?".
@@pelgervampireduck Exactly, the cartoon comment captures the essence of my point
A noticable part about Shadow and Relm is also in the very end of the game in the credits itself.
Shadow's theme comes right between Relm and Strago's
There isn't much to Mog's scene, but there's still some sombre undertones. The place you find him is the one where all the Moogles are in the World of Balance. In the World of Ruin he is there, alone. Either all the Moogles have been displaced in the calamity, or they've all died. Either way, now Mog is alone, species wise.
He's also staring at the wall where Molulu's Charm is found. Imagine giving up because, understandably, your whole family and girlfriend are dead and all you have left is a trinket.
This is when it's time to get Mog's revenge. You can get him a Snow Muffler, the Paladin Shield, the Aura Lance, a Genji Helmet, and Dragoon Boots and the Dragon Horn, and he becomes the most powerful character on the game. Nothing can hurt him and he bounces on heads.
@@Sauvenil In the GBA version, I had him solo Kaiser Dragon. He didn't even need Dragoon Boots+Horn, I just picked a dance and walked away.
Totally love the way u guys talk about one of my fav childhood games, in such a deep, philosophical and passionate way… keep up the good work !
I'm sure yall get suggestions all the time, but Phantasy Star IV would be a great game to give this sort of treatment for.
Does anyone else like to humor the theory that Baram is Kefka? That he was captured by the empire and made to endure experimentation that broke him. Dont remember where I heard it, but its a fun thought.
You still have the Ancient Castle, Ebot's Rock (which is Strago's sidequest), Deathgaze, the Elemental Dragons, and even some of the additional content added in the GBA version (though the only ones worth mentioning is Gilgamesh and the postgame Dragon's Den and Soul Shrine). That's basically it, because everything else is pretty much just Magicite and/or equipment collecting. Honestly, the Ancient Castle and Ebot's Rock are by far the most interesting in terms of content since you actually get a bit of lore and character development. The Ancient Castle is of particular note for Terra, and Ebot Rock's noteworthy for Strago and to a lesser extent, Relm.
From what I remember about the Shadow and Relm thing: After "Clyde" escaped and left his partner, he ended up in Thamasa and got patched up by Strago's daughter. Then had a thing with her but left before Relm was born. So might be that he was unaware of Relm being his daughter at first. Despite the cartoony characters, there is so much depth and sublety to this story and it's characters. Arguably more then FF7 even.
46:18 Seemed to me like the Chadarnook is a separate demon who is possessing the Goddess within the painting. Not so much the Goddess turning into the Chadarnook. Even though that's what it looks like during the battle sequence.
55:35 The Shadow and Relm connection always seemed clear between the dreams, Interceptors affection towards Relm, the burning building rescue and the 3 existing momento rings which can only be equipped by Relm and Shadow. The fact that Wrexsoul holds one of the momento rings draws attention to the contrast of the samurai and ninja characters and how they respond to emotional distress. I dare say Shadow seems confused by Interceptors treatment of Relm because he's been intentionally distancing himself from feelings of any kind since Baram's death. Contrasting with Cyan, who works through his encounter with Wrexsoul or faces being lost forever. Shadow loses his identity as the husband and father Clyde. I Think that's why there's a 3rd momento ring on Wrexsoul. It represents Clyde's loss of self to grief.
1:02:15 The whole tedium of dungeon crawling is intentional and part of the game. To get rid of that defeats the purpose of charm bangles or the moogle shoes. Two items I always looked forward to getting strictly because it mitigates that grind. I like using the sprint shoes too, but they had to add an always running feature to the advance version. Seems like a redundancy that undermines features built in to the game.
I love this podcat
I don’t know why it’s in the dream. But 3 memento rings makes sense. Shadow, Relm, and the mother each had one.
@@Postumeartist exactly!
I think it's a sign that Wrexsoul did the same thing to Clyde, but instead of prevailing like Cyan, he killed his feelings and left his old self and memories behind. Leaving only a 'shadow' of the man he was.
Wrexsoul latches on to grief and despair. He's basically a metaphor for the severe depression associated with loss.
I'm so happy to see other fans of Umaro in their party down in the comments. As a kid I had no clue what he was immune to but sometimes it would seem like 2 characters were status effected or hit hard and there Umaro was happily attacking while the other two could get patched up.
As someone who just completed Persona 5 Royal, I felt that 'i am tired of battles at the end of the game' discussion
Especially since 100% Confidants and 3rd Trimester easily clocks that game at over 100 hours
In case anyone missed it Gogo has a hidden benefit. Go to the status screen and Gogo strangely has a 🖕 on his command list. Push right and a list will be displayed showing every character skill in the game. Gogo can fill his remaining three slots from this list, from blitz to sketch, making him such a Swiss army knife of a character. Hope this helps. Great video fellas!
Can we all appreciate how the actual final episode of this will come out on the same day as the Pixel Remaster's console release?
Baram is Kefka when I play the game lol. Also I like to leave shadow and relm behind for the final battle so they get father daughter time on the ship. I also think of Gogo as Mr FFV, linking all FF games together somehow. Anyways, really enjoyed this series! Thanks guys! Edit- oops! Spoke too soon, looking forward to kefka’s tower! (Or Baram’s Tower if you’re me)
Umaro - if I remember my childhood correctly... if you put a gauntlet on him, his attack spikes.
Shadow - Yes, I picked up on the connection. I also thought more about it because I never got shadow the first time (didn't know to stay til the end of the countdown) and I found Relm in the cave. When I finally got Shadow and then didn't find Relm in the cave, it opened up new questions. That said, based on where he travels/ends up in his stories, the dog/Relm thing, etc, I assumed as much.
I see it being pointed out in the comments, but I'ma gonna say it too cause it's just that important to me:
Gogo can Mimic any action taken by another character, including Summons, which is the only way to summon the same Esper twice in one battle, (barring RNG from a piece of Magicite or Setzer's Triple Bar slot result).
But more importantly, his command menu can be customized with ANY combination of "3+Mimic" of the entire list of the team's commands.
This includes Attack, Magic, and Item, which are not even on his default menu.
So Gogo could march into a Battle with:
Mimic
Tools
Blitz
Magic
And he can equip all the relics particular to those commands, so he can get Control through Sketch, Mug through Steal, and Coin Toss through Slots.
Only commands he can't have, or Mimic are Morph/Trance and Desperation Attacks.
He also automatcitally knows every Rage, Lore, Dance, Blitz, Bushido, and Tool already obtained by the party, regardless of if the associated character is IN the party, AND he knows every spell known by the CURRENT party, with no extra Esper Grinding nessecary to learn everything from scratch.
You already did his Grinding when you did it for everyone else that's with him.
Oh, and when he mimics, it doesn't cost resources, so he can do bonus Ultima's and Curaga's for free.
As for Umaro, try giving him his 2 unique relics, and set him loose in the Colisseum, or the Cult of Kefka/Tower of Magic, where HE AND HE ALONE gets to ignore the "Magic only" rule of the tower and just bash in the face of every mage in his path.
He's absurdly strong even without relics, and the GBA version gives him a third exclusive relic that just boosts his stats by a lot.
I forget how much but it's a lot, and for a bunch of his stats.
With the bonus damage from his "fastball special" attack from one of the other exclusive relics, put haste on him and just sit back and enjoy the show.
Both characters might not be BLE to equip Espers, but they REALLY don't need to.
The only drawback for them is the lack of stat bonuses, and in all honesty?
Do you REALLY need to min max stats in this game? It's not that important, like, at all.
If you're really just gonna ignore them because they're end game bonus characters with no major plotlines to follow...that's kind of a shame, they're worth giving more of a fair shot than that.
Gogo does have their own desperation attack called X-Meteo, but they won't mimic another character's desperation attack.
Umaro is OP. Once you equip his relics. He is immune to most magics and some even heal him. The three stooges can't petrify him, he carried my party. I just sat there and watched him as my whole party was dead and he was full health.
Umaro casts FIST! The only spell he needs to know. (Well, and bodyslam, storm and toss)
Gogo can equip espers, you just have to unlock his hidden skills in the status screen which allows you to choose three other commands (one of the other member skills, item, or magic.)
I didn't pick up on the Relm Shadow connection my first play through as a kid in the 90s, but I did after multiple play throughs. I played FFIII on SNES over and over, it was my favorite game back in the day. The biggest thing that caught my attention between Relm and Shadow was how you find them both in that cave in the WoR depending on if you save Shadow or not, and I definitely noticed that only Relm and Shadow can equip the Memento Ring.
I love the contrast that takes place in so many areas.
Terra you touched on perfectly.
She went from out of place to finding her purpose.
Shadow is still my favorite though.
He runs from his partner, his family, his emotions and even your party.
But in the end….
He knows it’s time to stop running.
I've been binge watching this podcast since Friday and I've been playing this in the background.
When you guys came up to the part about Terra, I actually started to tear up. It was beautifully set up that her character arc ends in a psuedo-full circle.
Locke's arc was just utterly heartbreaking; and yes, that dungeon is hell on crack.
You get back your only thief and Phoenix Esper, but your heart gets stomped on for the next 15 minutes. It's like the 5 stages of grief from concentrate.
Well done. 👏
Mike's favorite game is Chrono Trigger. He is indeed a man of culture.
I don't know why, but when I played this game as a kid Gogo was my favorite character. Once I got them, they were always in my party. On my play through for this podcast, I still liked used them because blitz seems to have high base effectiveness. Even thought it wasn't as good as Sabin, blitz on Gogo still felt better than using magic on any character. Even though this game's story is about magic, "physical" skills are them best to me!
Even if Gogo's stats suck, Mantra works off of HP, so their stats don't matter.
Mimicing throw doesn't consume the item, so toss Excaliburs as much as you want.
And Mimicing magic costs no MP and no wait delay time.
Gogo is a fantastic support character... assuming you know to equip the menu.
Yeah Phantom Rush is good enough that if Gogo uses it he can still get pretty high damage. It’s a nice balance that Gogo can get crazy utility with blitz and shared magic, while having low stats as a penalty for that utility. I also like giving him Lore for the support blue magic
Gogo is crazy powerful. You can spin him up soooo fast b/c he learns any magic another party member masters. He becomes an absolute beast very quickly
too bad his statuses are shit...
Gogo is a fantastic support character because they can mimic magic spells. However they can't equip espers, so their stats suck. Doesn't matter if Gogo can mimic Ultima for free though!
Not only that but you can customize his command list to include any command and use them without needing a character to mimic. So along with magic he can use blitz, tools, etc. at will.
54:20 - wait. what?! Realm's father is Shadow? I've been playing this game for years. I never got that.
Developers did confirm this, but there are many, many clues in the game.
Memento Ring - Departed mother's love protects from instant death, only Relm and Shadow can equip it.
Failing to Wait for Shadow - Relm shows up in the Veldt Cave instead of Shadow. Saving her reveals a dream where she wonders where her dad is going.
PSX version - FMV, just before they show off Shadow in the Phantom Train, a bright flash occurs, for like 3 frames, you can find Amano's artwork for Relm.
Thank both of you for existing and getting this idea where it became what it is. I love everything you do
22:00 I always read Gau's father as having dementia which is why he's always asking for the repair man (not just his clock that's broken). He's basically Mr Plinkett from Red Letter Media.
I did piece together that Shadow was Relm's father as a kid. I loved that revelation! I felt so smart for figuring it out from the clues. To this day, I love when games don't spell things out like that.
I love these podcasts. Gives so much insight to characters and moments I skimmed over on my first play
Really enjoyed this look back at a game that was formative for me in some ways. I had not played it through completely since the SNES and it’s great to see it discussed in an adult way.
i realized shadow was her dad in my first playthrough but i talked to EVERY npc and i read deeply into the dream about him being in the magic villiage. at first i thought maybe she was baram's kid, but when they could both wear the memento ring that was enough for me.
though i also tried to read into who gogo may be and other such mysteries that were likely imaterial.
I would strongly recommend taking Figaro Castle for one last ride. You will see some very good story regarding the war of the Magi.
Re: Shadow's confusion over Interceptor being fond of Relm: I don't think it's ever stated exactly how long it's been since the scenes we see in his dreams actually happened. The explanation I've always had in my head is that Shadow left almost immediately after Relm was born. Note that he doesn't say her name in the dream in which he leaves. There's a possibility that he left before she even had a name. Obviously something happened to her mother at some point and then Strago took her in, and while Relm calls Strago "Gramps," I don't think it's ever confirmed that they're actually related by blood. Strago's FFWiki page refers to Strago as "Relm's surrogate grandfather" (there's no footnote, so I don't know if that's been confirmed). Taken altogether, I think it's entirely possible that Shadow could not recognize Relm by sight or name (Interceptor almost certainly remembers her by scent) and also that Shadow had no prior relationship with Strago. Strago never mentions recognizing Shadow's voice or anything, either, even in that cut scene you talked about.
If you fail to save Shadow, you save Relm instead of Shadow in the Veldt Cave. After saving her, she'll have a dream where she says in her room, "Daddy, where are you going?" True, we don't know how much time specifically has passed since he left, but Relm was young enough to remember something.
@@AkaiAzul I disagree that that line of dialogue is indicative that she remembered her father in any capacity. Everybody knows that they have a father and she could wonder where he went without ever having known him in any capacity. She was likely brought up only knowing that he left, so it’d be completely natural for her to wonder why he abandoned her.
@@ArtelindSSB actually it's a continuation of Shadow's dream. When Relm ask the question to Strago, you can see interceptor look at the window, then barks and when outside the house. This dream continues to Shadow's dream that can only be seen if you saved him. In that dream, Interceptor follows Shadow but tells the dog to stay with Relm but the dog still followed Shadow anyway.
@@tsunaxsawada10 Looks like I need to rewatch those scenes! It's been quite a while.
I wonder if more % of people missed the Shadow+Realm connection than players who missed the parental connection in FF8 lol
When I was a kid playing this I definitely used Gogo till the end of the game. Any character that could give me another Blitz (and tools, etc.) was instantly appealing. Obviously, their stats were poor, but that's a good thing otherwise Gogo would be way too OP.
I thought they would have covered the ancient castle since that takes place during “The War of the Magi”. One of my favorite sections in WoR
Was going to put in a word for Gogo's ridiculous OP:ness here, but it seems pretty well covered by other commenters already :D Way back, in my my first playthrough, I remember my roster being terribly unbalanced at the endgame. Gogo allowed for an easy grind with any party constellation, letting me beef up three characters at a time, saving 12 year old me a lot of overwhelm.
There’s a good few hints. Shadow and Strago have an odd conversation we don’t hear at Thamasa back in WoB when they leave the house. Then there’s a specific ring which can only be equipped by Shadow and Relm which mentions it’s from a deceased mother in its description.
There are also two copies of this ring that you can find (maybe a third in the Colosseum). One comes already equipped on Relm. The other is hidden in Relm's room tucked away in a wall behind a table.
It’s already been mentioned that Gogo has utility beyond mimicking other characters’ actions in that you can customize his command list to include any command so he’s actually quite versatile in spite of poor stats.
But the other thing is that he’s actually a returning character. He first appeared in FFV as an optional boss and beating (or rather, not beating him) granted you access to the Mime job class.
Not too much to say about Umaro beyond powering him up with certain accessories and his usefulness in the arena and Fanatic’s tower. He does make an early cameo in the World of Balance if you go to a certain screen in Narsche; you can see him quickly come out and back into a cave atop a ledge you can’t reach then and I think an NPC mentions there being a yeti that lives in the mountains.
I don't know if anyone else has mentioned this, but Relm's class "Painter" does prominently feature in another game! Bravely Default 2, specifically, has a really memorable sequence revolving around that power set and its capabilities.
Loving these podcasts!
“I gotta be OP!” Hahaha😂 ALWAYS!
@1:08:24 I mean, that mentality is good when you know you will HAVE to move one.. but in Locke's case (as unreal as it is), imagine if she actually came back to life and they had a second chance together. Could she revive her to tell her to move on herself? Haha
Mog is looking at the pendent from his deceased friend/lover.
Gogo's big advantage is that he can custom set up his hotbar. he's not just mimic. you can give him tool > Magic > Dance > blitz if you want.
the 'nice' thing about umaro is he kind of breaks rules. like he can fight physically in the fanatics tower. and he just...acts quickly even when other party members are prevented from fighting some times.
With regard to the random encounter issue in FF6, there was a way to stop all random encounters. You needed the moogle amulet/Molulu's Charm in Mog house (it is in he's seat). When equipped you would not have any random encounters.
in the SNES version on the status screen you can actually "equip" battle commands to GoGo. he will be able to use all the learned magic, lore. rage, ect. i don't think you can remove mimic though.
Gogo cannot remove Mimic, but can equip almost every other command. But it's not obvious you can edit their commands, so many people instantly give up on them.
You have mentioned how well the game weaves together humor and drama, and I think one of the few studios that still today do that as well is Remedy. Alan Wake or Control could be very interesting games for this series
As others have said, the Memento Ring was the clue for me that Realm and Shadow were daughter-father. And yes, on the SNES.
I do like that Mike mentioned the fatigue factor popping up at the end of the game. For me, the Phoenix Cave just drags on. I honestly don't know why, and I've tried to just go through that dungeon on its own to try and see if it was because I was in marathon mode. Naw, it is still draggy. Which is nutty, because Locke and Celes are my favorite characters in FF6.
Here for it always!
We find Mog in a pretty sad place. He's home and everyone else is gone. And when we find him, he's looking at Molulu's charm. He's ecstatic to see us because he just found out he still has friends even if he's likely the only moogle left.
in general this game has a lot of subtle story in its gameplay, so I'm not surprised the guys miss things like this since they never talk about gameplay
I got bored of fighting till the end of the game too. But Idk when I’ll ever get bored listening to the 2 of you’s takes on one of my favorite games😃.
Gogo is really good because you can equip him with any skills when you go on his status screen. So he can bum rush without Sabin in the party
Like others have said: Gogo can do any move in the game. Double bum rush is fantastic. Umaro is mostly not that useful, but I find him decent in the coliseum.
Without Umaro, you really have to devote one character to sucking all game long until the world of ruin so that character only learns good moves.
But yeah, they’re secret characters that don’t matter in the story at all.
Yeah. When I played this game for the first time so many years ago, I never caught on to Relm being the daughter of Shadow. I only found that out through the internet many years later.
Regarding Locke, I didn't get the "Celes as second choice" vibe.
It seemed clear his attachment after all these years wasn't to Rachel, but to his own feelings of guilt and failure. In the Phoenix Cave, he says he can't restore his honour without making good on his promise.
Also think that the message about moving on is still made by this story, if a little watered down by having to resurrect her and hear her forgive him and tell him to move on. Like they say, this doesn't happen in real life, our take-away is that the people we love would want us to move on.
I once heard a goofy rumor that gogo is Kefka in disguise. That would be a fun theory to think about except gogo is standing there with the main characters as kekfa is talking to them before the final battle.
Realms painting portion always reminds me of Ghostbusters 2 haha.
Having Hien / "Owain" be a character in FF14 from a Doma where Kaien / Cyan is gone... it's been very interesting.
Getting the band back together!
Relic icons suggest that perhaps there could have been more than two types of relic equipment. Shoes, gloves, pendants, rings, etc.
I believe strago once mentioned about Relms father left... also, there is a relic that only shadow and relm can equip named memento.
I fucking love this podcast!
Gogo: In Final Fantasy V, there's a late game bonus dungeon featuring a Mimic as a boos. When you win, the Mimic unlocks the mime class and banishes themself to another dimension. The most likely explanation is that they fell into FFVI on a one-way trip into Zone Eater.
But in North America, FFV wasn't released until after FFVII in the PS1 days. So rumors swirled around their origin. Maybe Emperor Ghestal survived the Floating Continent but it fried his powers and memories. Maybe Bannon is deep undercover and wants to help but cannot reveal his identity to anyone. Darryl? Rachel? Completely new character? Everyone had a theory.
Gogo is amazing. You can assign them with others ability and you can use mine to copy super powerful attacks. Plus there's all the rumors and mystery around them.
The scene where Celes throws herself off the cliff and the opera scene where she throws the flowers from the tower are similar to me.
Umaro and Gogo are pretty underrated. I like them both better than Cyan since it takes a million years for him to charge his Bushido up to 7 or 8 while the enemy gets free attacks on you since you can't do anything else (the Pixel Remaster apparently fixed this so he's less detrimental now). Umaro is my colosseum MVP because he just does what he always does and I don't have to worry about the AI casting any magic or wasting turns with useless abilities like with other characters (he can throw himself at enemies if he's the only party member, which is always funny to me). He's handy in the Cultist's Tower because everything is weak to physical attacks and he isn't prevented from doing them. Just don't give him the Blizzard Orb because his ice breath is weak due to him having a pitiful MAG stat and it's often absorbed by enemies. If you just want a brute who hits things really hard without having to tell him to, Umaro is your yeti.
Gogo doesn't need Espers because if you give them the Magic command they get all the spells known by the rest of the party they're in. Also, I found out recently some people don't know you can set Gogo's abilities on the Status screen to any of the battle commands of the entire roster so I'm pointing that out here as a PSA. You can give them Tools, Blitz, and Throw and it's like having Edgar, Sabin, and Shadow in a party that doesn't include any of them, which is super helpful when you need to split up.
Regarding Relm and Shadow, I did pick on some of it the first time I played. I might have missed it but a friend told me to keep sleeping at an inn to get all of Shadow's dreams. Also, if Shadow dies then Relm has a dream after you rescue her from the Veldt cave. In Relm's dream, she's in her house with Strago and upset that "papa" is gone and wonders if he'll come back. Interceptor is running around barking before going outside, which you then see the other side of in Shadow's last dream where Interceptor chases after him as he's leaving Thamasa. Another friend of mine didn't wait for Shadow, so when we were talking about the game after finishing it, we made the connection because of the different dreams and it was like "oh, holy crap!" Then things like how Interceptor was so gentle with Relm and the Memento Rings added up. I like how they put clues there without having to come right out and state it to the player. I don't believe Shadow forgot about Relm, it's that he killed "Clyde" and was trying to keep from his past and emotions buried by staying away from her (even when she was in mortal peril when she was trapped in a house fire).
No ambiguity, most clyde dreams are set near or in thamasa. A dog (probably Interceptor), finds him collapsing and relm's mother comes into the scene and another dream has him leaving before his past catches up to him. The dog follows him.
If they ever remade it id like to see him face his demons... maybe baram is one of those experiments like number 024 since he wasn't finished off
I am currently scouring the library of unreleased Japanese famicom games to try and find an rpg that stands up to FF VI and so far I have not found it yet, but man there are some hidden gems that come pretty damn close.
I played the pixel remaster and therefore the revamped translation if it matters, but there seemed to me strong “hint hint nudge nudge” vibes about Shadow being Relm’s father. I don’t remember anything outright stating it, but it was clear enough for me to pick up on at least
1:00:00 I hope you get to analyse *CHAINED ECHOES* at some point! It is the most phantastic JRPG I've played in a long time (and I'm not just saying so because I'm german! 😜). The game deals with grinding, random battles and other tropes in really interesting and ingenious ways. Fighting never gets boring.
I always thought about the use of the name Lola and the song Layla by Eric Clapton. Clapton, like Cyan, was writing about another man's wife.
Final Fantasy's concept of a "Mime" class is really interesting, I just think they've failed to make it compelling in the incarnations I'm familiar with. I've never bothered with unlocking those prerequisites in Tactics and while I think it's super cool that Gogo can mimic ANY character ability (4/8x cut?! Edgar's chainsaw?! doublecast Ultima?!) they're barely even a character. I guess at the end of the day a sub-optimal mimicked ability sort of just evokes the Red Mage class which is meant to do a little bit of everything. Maybe it's the localization but I'd like to see what they'd do narratively with a French-style mime character, like one that doesn't talk and casts magic via performance art. You could even make it a robotic character if you're so inclined. Are there any truly great characters in the mainline series that you'd classify as Red Mages? Maybe Kimahri by virtue of him being in the center of Sphere grid in addition to enemy skills/blue magic, he was never a fave for me in FFX.
This series has been great but perhaps you should've have anticipated that the translations would be such a focal point of discussion if you think the series is longer than expected. I don't mind it personally, linguistics have always been a strong point of these podcasts and it's even more relevant during this era of games when localization was blossoming. Thanks and keep up the great work.
I understand gogo and umaru don't add much to the story but properly equipped, they can bring the hurt in battle
I named my cat Phunbaba.
Final episode?! 🥺 You guys are rushing through this! I just got Edward back in world of ruin!
They thought it would be the final episode going in, but there was still a lot to cover for the ending and so they saved that for one more episode.
Edward or Edgar?
@@Ninja-Hayate you know, that spoony king of Figaro. Edgwar
I dunno if y'all are gonna do a look back at this game, but I've heard there's an interview from some of the developers from the early 2000's saying the entire game is a stage play put on by Mog, which is related to the weird US commercial and why Mog is front and center on the cover. Did either of you come across that in your research? I've tried looking every way I can but any search prompt I can think of just brings up the opera scene
This would be pretty cool. Also I think it's Mog who explains what's happening in the story when you have to choose which party you will follow, so that could be him talking to the audience.
Personally I love the multi party dungeons, were so fun to explore and loved switching between the parties. I wish more games did this but sadly disappointed in every Final Fantasy after it not having anything fun like that for me. I do wish there was more dungeons like it in FF6 but sadly not as many fans liked them as much as I did. Maybe one day an RPG will do something like that, and I can have the type of fun I haven't had in most RPGs but I still love most of the RPGs I have played. Gogo and Umaro were essential for the last dungeon for me, there is enough characters story wise in the last area that its not a big deal. Not fan of Relm or Strago so I always ditch them for the last dungeon.
Let'sa Gogo
Did they go over the kingdom that you find underground In Figaro castle? It adds more to the backstory to the Esper Human relationship.
as it's optional i think they skipped it.
@@megamike15 Ahh that makes sense I figured they weren't going to go hunting for the dragons and Doomgaze/Deathgaze since those side quests add nothing to the plot they just showed up when Kefka ruined the World.
The hidden kingdom is basically an optional bookend to the earlier Esper plot with Terra that dosen't really affect the Kefka stuff so I guess I can see why they decided to skip it.
Yas!
Umaro can be very useful in the colosseum
I always hated the Phoenix cave because of those random battles. This time through I made sure to get MOG and his charm first to turn the battles off (snes version)