Finally, it's refreshing to see someone with the courage and integrity to openly criticize CGC for its shortcomings as a business. I've noticed numerous RUclips personalities acting as mere shills, hyping up CGC as if it will effortlessly dominate the market and eliminate all competition. It's nothing but a facade. I eagerly anticipate the day they are forced to face reality. From now on, I refuse to send any more books to CGC, period.
When you criticise CGC and yet still submit to them says what kind of character you have. I hate them and what they do and yet il keep submitting because I get more money from that label hahaha.. There is options like CBCS but yet nah I like going to the wolf in sheep’s clothing still
@@tensixtythreecomicsLast year was the first time I sent a couple autographed books to CBCS and when they came back I realized how much superior their cases are. The look and feel is amazing and superior to CGC.
@@AcidicJOyeah I did the same. Sent 19 books and some magazines. When you hold the cases you can feel they seem sturdier. I just wonder how they will answer this 9.9 prescreen. Clearly cgc/cbcs and others have been limiting grades to mainly 9.8 as a top grade. It’s easy look at all books graded and get a percentage of 9.9 and of 10s and compare that in a year. My guess is 10 X higher numbers.
If the CGC video of how they determine a 9.9 and 10, then this Giant Size X-Men is not a legit 9.9. It's just proof of what CGC is planning to do to the market. It's very disappointing.
Cgc are a bunch of scum bags and if anyone submits their book starts to them is just supporting there scam on how they do business and it’s all about manipulating the hobby prices..
Even that video is totally suspect. So because the person submitted 70 books(or maybe it was more can't remember) that means there has to be some 9.9s and 10.0s in there? So because I only submit 10books, I have no shot at a grade higher than 9.8? Sh*t is very suspect. If they introduce 9.9 pre-screen and they start flooding the market with them, all the graded market values are going to decline. 9.8s would become the new 9.6s and so on.
My comic books will be sent to CBCS from this point forward. I will no longer be sending my comic books to CGC. I've been having a terrible experience with them overdue grading times and blowing me off as a customer..
that 9.8 was from the same submission there is also an ASM 129 9.6 with multiple spine ticks a corner crunch and 2 small chips in auction also from the same submission.
With the uncertainty of the 9.9 market, I don’t think this book will sell for 250-500k. If the 9.8 is 22-25k currently, I think this 9.9 will finish at 80-125k
Especially when anyone with even a modicum of grading acumen would notice the conspicuous color breaking on the cover & realize the sliding scale is broken (if it ever worked at all)
Regarding your comment toward the end of the videos about CGC encouraging resubmissions by occasionally suppressing VERY strong books from highest grade...I've suspected that for a while. I have an example for you...not as high-dollar as the GSXM #1 example, but here you go. About 8 years ago, I submitted my ASM #252, which I had purchased brand new, off the shelf at my comic shop where I went to college. (I had been separated from my collection for 25 years during my military career.) I'm not a professional grader, but I am an experienced grader, with about 300 submissions from my personal collection under my belt, and I had always recorded my "predictions" in Excel. Even then (circa 2016), my books would come back at my predicted grade or higher 80% of the time. Anyway, this book looked DEAD MINT. I said to myself, "this comic is so perfect, I don't even want to risk a CCS press." Lo and behold, it comes back a 9.6 with a single grader note stating "stacking bend." BS. The books was one of the easiest lay-up 9.8s I'd ever sent. Not even borderline. So I grudgingly resubmitted thru CCS, and sure enough, it came back a 9.8 and looked EXACTLY the same. I know, a single data point, and only my eyes (and my track record) as basis for my suspicions. Well, they got their $12.00 pressing fee plus all the resubmit fees. I just wish I didn't love slabs so much --- I really like how they present a book, and I think authentication (for restoral) is still a valuable service.
I am so happy you exist on the internet. Your feedback is backed up by genuine experience and it is obvious you know your craft. This is literally scam level nonsense by CGC and their corporate owners. Greed. I do think this will backfire for them however and cause a revolt when those with higher grade books watch their values plummet - and I don't mean just 9.8 book owners. All the 9's will plummet in value. Only the lower tier CGC grades will be somewhat unaffected. This said, I am a pragmatic investor in my books and I will follow where the money goes - and CGC knows that many will do the same. What I think CGC may not know is that this could cause CBCS to become the more trusted certifier of books - and relegate CGC into a a surprise runner-up status that CBCS has been in for so long. I actually trust CBCS more today - simply because of what CGC is doing with this 9.9 money grab.
I applaud you once again for your honesty and POV. For a guy who sells slabbed books you could just say, “this is great!” to encourage sales and grading.
I never understood why some of the most perfect comic books came back 9.8. It was like they were afraid to give a 9.9 let alone a 10. I think they finally realized that. Plus now they're going to make a fortune with the 9.8s coming in for regrading. Especially the people that have access to lots of 1970s 9.8's. Those people are going to be submitting like crazy searching for the gold mine. A lot of these big time comic shops that have these type of issues will be doing it. The timing is perfect it gets everyone's mind off the scandals that are going on with C G C. I think their business was in trouble from these scandals too. It sure made me reevaluate how many books I want to submit.
I sent in a rare variant of Street Fighter VI #0. I sent in two copies. Never took them out of the bag and board they came in straight from Udon. One looked literally perfect with not a single flaw, not even with the corners. Came back a 9.8. And the other looked almost as perfect, 9.6. Kinda infuriating.
CGC will do the 9.9 prescreen. Asshat Nelson already sold as much that they’ll be doing that & charging more for the review service b/c it will take them more time to examine the books.
Well done! You covered ALL the ramifications, motivations, and reasonings. This is how business decision makers operate across ALL industries. At the end of the day, it’s about “fiduciary responsibility”. That means, you can throw out any semblance of integrity. Businesses are amoral entities. It is up to the consumer to draw a line on how far a company can go before their business practices become “unacceptable”.
It is a self limiting industry, especially when you consider the modern comic industry is contracting. Eventually they will run out of books to grade. There is clearly a color rub to the left of Nightcrawlers hip over where the staple sits. To justify this as a 9.9 this staple bump/rub must now be classified as a "production" error.
This is so true. After the 're-holder' scandal all of a sudden CGC pre-screens for 9.9's and they are popping up all over the place. Total bait and switch, smoke and mirrors.
I think you just nailed it. So you are telling me that a comic book grading service is manipulating the market? Have to agree with you. The service is one and done. Thank you for your content. Love your ranting. It makes sense.
Perhaps someone has done this before, but I would like to see someone take a book with very specific defects, send it to CGC and get a grade, crack it, send it to CBCS see what grade it gets, crack it, send it to CGC, and then repeat the process one more time and send it to CBCS. Assuming the book doesn't receive any additional damage during the process, it would be interesting to see a test case for consistency in grading between the two companies.
Dave, the CGC model was bad for the customer from day one (paying a % instead of a flat fee for grading). A flat fee, no matter how old the book is, fixes everything!
In my honest opinion cgc business is ridiculous .. I’m also getting back 8.5 - 9.2 that look as good as some of my 9.8s I’m currently selling 7 boxes of graded books which is most my collection just because I don’t feel so good about a lot of books Also cgc just recently water damaged two of my books in a submission, not expensive books but someone definitely spilled something on them, just not worth sending them back
@@bandoogiemanz Very true, but 9.9's will get the biggest hit cause they've been valued so high due to their rarity and the valuation gap between a 9.9 and 9.8 is much bigger than a 9.8 and 9.6 and so on. Any books with a grading below 9 should be okay I think.
If you wanted your mattress store to fail, naming it "SleepLess" would definitely be a good start. But, it would get you listed in the phone book before "SleepMore".
First off, you put out very good content and I appreciate the breakdowns and your opinions on these type of subjects. Secondly, just wow…. CGC is not going to like your show. This has to be one of the best breakdowns of how CGC has the entire comic book world ….. essentially by their throats. The fact that you can break this down and give us this information. Amazing job brother! Keep up the good work.
You are on point with your opinions. This whole 9.9 pre-screening is very suspicious. And now the 9.8, which we all just accepted as the best grade will be devalued or not as desired as a 9.9. CGC should not have ever charged a percentage of the FMV of expensive books because it can be viewed that a grade for a book can be affected due to the potential extra profits for CGC. A flat rate for all books to keep things on the up and up. Now I understand why so many people are moving away or cutting back on grading books. If you want to see that 9.9 Giant-size X-Men you can see a great analysis of the actual book @Automatic Comics. Thanks for making this video.
You are exactly right, CGC needs to generate more revenue because Modern books are not enough. The reholder scandal has slowed down their revenue streams so much that they decided to do this 9.9 thing now. That’s why Matt Nelson did the interview with the 9.9 Newsstand to get this going. Blackrock has him by the balls and he has to keep that revenue high or they will get rid of him.
99% of what was said in this video needs to be heard by 99 times more people than have viewed it so far. 2.6K at the time of this comment. Very important video. This video should’ve gone viral.
I’d argue that even at $25, the 3 mins they actually handle the book they’re still probably making a profit. That recent video I think he graded 400 new books and I bet it took him less than an hour.
'All the books that are worth graded will eventually be graded'...this isn't a static number though, especially with movie tie ins (worth it or not). For example, I don't think the 1st Metamorpho was on anyone's list until he was cast. Random appearances of characters spike buying and then grading of those related books (that no one was thinking about until then). So, what is worth grading changes week from week. Usually these books aren't really worth grading after their movie appearance though (see Him/Warlock).
At one time, I was thinking of acquiring signature 9.8s of a couple of nice books. Now, there's no way I want to bet on 9.8s maintaining their current values.
Does the 9.9 prescreen mean that only those who pay for the service will get 9.9s or 10.0s or are they now going to accurately grade all books regardless?
CCG started as a currency company! CGC is the comic grading portion. There’s like eight companies underneath the CCG Banner. Good Lord. I understand that what they’re doing is not good for the hobby, but that one comment just boggles my mind.
Did you know even in the 70's people said, "this modern stuff will never be worth what the older stuff is worth?" My opinion is there will always be stuff that breaks trending cycles, for example ASM 300.
You’re 100% correct I was telling my lcs this exact same thing he literally thinks I’m crazy. Every bad thing that happens in cards comics always follows the exact same path it never fails.
This is what happens when human subjectivity and intrinsic motivations manipulate what should be an objective process. CGC could have implemented machine learning (AI) years ago to grade their books and didn’t because they know there’s a constant revenue stream for resubmits. Now they are doing it again with this gimmick. They know the psychology of greed and nerds, and will exploit it over and over again.
CGC has obviously watered down its grading standards as evidenced by the "9.9" Giant-Size X-Men #1. Why? To make more money, as you stated. More and more will gamble with their 9.8 copies, hoping to get that coveted 9.9.
That’s why I watch you and few others Dave…you give honest opinion. Most you tube influencers get kick backs from CGC, Go collect and short box and tell comic collects everything is all good 😅
As for world wide recognition of comic characters i would say there are only 5 A listers Superman, Spiderman,Batman,Wolverine and Hulk. Substantially more B tiers like Wonder Woman and probably Iron Man (but only because of RDJ). In fact someone had a completle melt down at me when i suggested Stark was a C list hero before the movies. Actualy C list isnt so bad i would define them as capable of carrying a book but unknown to the general public. I remember last year a girl at work asking me what i was doing at the weekend and i said i was off to see the new Ant man movie. She thought i was winding her up that there could actually be a hero called Ant Man. Eventually had to pull up youTube and the trailer. Point is all that Avengers End game hype and stuff and it still hadn't raised the profile of a bunch of these heroes enough for a Norm to have even heard of them.
Great video Dave! Interesting to know what exactly is considered acceptable now as a 9.9 grade. Does CGC have that new criteria published and does it mean our 9.6s are the new 9.8s? It’s anyone’s guess I suppose. Thanks for sharing!
You are 100% correct on this scrupulous manufactured issue. I could not agree more on all the issues and theories that you point out. The one thing that I would add that seems very obvious to me is that CGC through all of its recent litigation has learned that putting comics into their slabs with grades that are not truly deserved whether through illegal means (please see pending litigations), or in this case by over-grading the occasional valuable grail that they themselves CGC, can now benefit from a legalized re-holdering/switching out lower grade copies that are clearly not deserving of the new grade. CGC has basically just taken the exploitations used and exposed by those that they now are suing and found a legal yet questionable way to keep those undeserved profits and margins for themselves. Truly a shameful act by a once trusted company.
Anyone that has made more than a couple submissions to CGC has been left scratching their head trying to figure out how a perfect looking book received the same or lower grade than an obviously flawed book, not to mention the times that a book sent in flawless condition comes back with a mysterious corner crunch.
Totally agreeing with you Bub...and CGC got me like a sucker, a honeybee buzzing over a pasture of flowers. I am one of those guys who is very optimistic when I have old graded books in my hands. I resubmit them over and over to get the grade I want or hope to obtain. Meanwhile, CGC is gladly collecting the service fees each and every time. It's all a money scheme; masterly planned by CGC.
I agree with you Dave, on the 9.8 grading, I've seen it and there's a RUclipsr that submits every week to CGC calling the graders "Harsh Harry" and "Loose Larry". With this much disparity in graders, you can buy a 9.4-9.6, but pay the price of a 9.8 because CGC graded it that way. This RUclipsr only complained about Harsh Harry, I'm sure he has a lot of lower actual grade books, but you can bet he's selling at the top price due to the CGC label.
Spot on. These companies always have to figure out a way to sheer the sheep again. Getting thousands and thousands of 9’8’s and some 9’6’s resubmitted for the 9.9 screen is another grift. In ten or twenty years they could come up with a 10 pre screen. I’m a card collector and I’m waiting for PSA to change their label, add security features, etc…just so they can get tens of thousands of slabs resubmitted. Try to only get sheered once.
You got a point Dave, once all the good books are graded that's it but there will be reholder's for cracked cases. I got nothing but keys issues and will get some of my big books graded one day but I have always looked at grading as a scam cause it's nothing but a money thing that's it.
David is the man you tell them how it is and they hate that that’s why I loved your show but everything that goes up. Come down you’re right thank you for the video.
If CGC allows resubmitting slabbed 9.8s for a chance to get an upgrade without any downside risk, that’s great. They make lots of money and we can try to upgrade our books if we want. The problem is that they are also changing their grading standards to further incentivize resubmitting. This GSX 1 is obviously NOT a 9.8 under the standards we used to know.
This was hilariously timed! It’s almost like CGC is doing this just to spite you for saying there weren’t a butt ton of Mint keys waiting to get graded. We all know how CGC rolls when it comes to market manipulation so this wouldn’t be new.
This “ 9.9 “ should literally be glistening and practically singing to us comic collectors but based on the pictures I’ve seen, no. This is the latest scheme from BlackStone Grading Co. ( Formerly known as CGC ).
To: Well…Everyone!!, “He’s not coming back to you! No one has allegiance to their mattress company!“ Then… I just fell out at my job watching Dave …LOL…!!!!!!😂 😂😂😂 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣….!!! - Thank you. ( I needed that Laugh! )
That is an interesting argument: As you mentioned, all the Big Big books are already graded and no more of them exists RAW. They are also not worth cracking to re-submit due to the cost.
I had a House of Slaughter #1 CGC 9.8 that had a 1/2 inch spine split that I didn't understand how it could possibly have happened then I saw the video of the 200 power rangers books being graded and realized that only 45 seconds was spent looking over the whole book and that explained it. CGC's decisions of late are doing them more harm than good and I am all for it.
I agree... perfect time for CGC to do so. Coincidence or business decision to force a 9.9 on a big grail book. I call BS, but good attempt to produce excitement to resubmit some 9.8s.
Did you get a close look at the back cover that's why I think it should not be even a 9.8, unless the camera image is flawed the back cover is dirty near the spine. The front cover could be a gem mint 10 but the back should be at the best a 9.6
Since they started pre screening for 9.9’s they’ve lowered the standards. I sent in a book a few months ago and it came back a 9.9 and I’ve never got a 9.9. And a couple of my friends got 9.9 on there books.
Isn’t re-grading a 9.8 as a 9.9 admitting that they didn’t grade the book properly the first time? How is that supposed to give anyone confidence in their business??? Maybe I should send in my 6.5 GSX 1 to see if I can get a 9.9 lol.
It's like when Elon say, "FSD" and investors start drooling. It's never gonna happen in our lifetime, but they gotta try and pump up the stock somehow. It's almost as if capitalism is a scam 🙃
You're talking about "legal fraud," essentially. If there were industry-wide grading standardization and these were public and not private companies this would be much harder to happen.
No question that CGC is doing this to motivate collectors to re-submit. Actually a smart move on their part because they know the comic community won’t be able to help themselves. They are also moving to pulps and manga to offset the dwindling comic grading market. This will keep the cash cow flowing for a period of time. Automatic Comics looked at the 9.9 Giant Size X-Men and concluded that it likely was a 9.8. I wouldn’t touch the 9.9 for that reason.
Idk why they can’t be happy that it’s a 9.8…that’s a MONSTER grade for that book. But of course…have to up it to 9.9…and anyone who thinks it’s a coincidence after the video and prescreen is kidding themselves. CGC is untouchable though….same people complaining is the same people who will submit to them over and over and over again. I love slabbed books…just stating facts. P.S…they’re saving the 10 prescreen after people find fake autos or purposely send in fake autos to see if it passes….with the JSA thing. That’s after the next scandal 😂
Sadly over the last 6-8 months and 3 CGC scandals in those 6-8 months I have totally lost interest in comics anymore and I have THOUSANDS invested in this (about $100k). I have been collecting comics since the 1980's and getting them graded since mid 2000's. I thought CBCS would capitalize off of all of the CGC mistakes and they have not I even even removed MOST of my comics from E-bay because THEY no are working with the IRS for anything sold over $600 in a year (never was like that before) you have to pay taxes on. So many things have happened in the last year I simply give up. I am going to try and sell the comics I have remaining in other ways. I am NOT paying taxes on something I already paid taxes on and the CGC scandal and continued foolishness by them has me jumping THIS sinking comic book industry ship. Good luck to those who stay in this thing. I now looking to buying and selling precious metals and other thing going forward.
Way to go CGC!!! If people are careless with their money and keep falling for the grift then by all means keep bending them over and doing it with NO VASELINE 😂😂 #RAW
Recently I gave five books to CGC and my friend said they are worthy of a 9.8 after a pressing. The books are Amazing Spiderman #300, Amazing Spiderman #361, Amazing Spiderman #316, Ultimate Fallout #4, and Luke Cage Hero For Hire #1. So CGC will make more money give them 9.8 or 9.9 based on their current pricing model?
If you have a 9.9 CGC comic book, never take the risk to send it in for a 10.0, it’s not logical! the bottom line truly believe CGC has adversely affected the grading curve and value of books
ive sent in hundreds of modern books to CGC and have never got a 9.9, a 10 isnt even on the radar...on a 25 book submission 9.8 prescreen i would get around 4 rejects and 21 9.8s never a 9.9
Contrary to many collectors' belief a CGC 9.8 is and never has been the highest possible grade attainable for their collections and have paid outrageous prices for them. This is a major reason why so many are angry about more potential 9.9's coming into the market making their 9.8's the new 9.6's.
9.8 was the most common high grade so people bought it thinking there wouldn’t be 9.9’s coming to market. Now it’s too risky to buy a 9.8 knowing you could lose a ton of money.
The problem I have with the increase of harsh criticism is the only viable alternative is CBCS which his father is the head grader. Not saying there is anything untoward or malicious, but it makes being objective difficult.
This is the rant we all have in our brains when a perfect book comes back a 9.8.
Finally, it's refreshing to see someone with the courage and integrity to openly criticize CGC for its shortcomings as a business. I've noticed numerous RUclips personalities acting as mere shills, hyping up CGC as if it will effortlessly dominate the market and eliminate all competition. It's nothing but a facade. I eagerly anticipate the day they are forced to face reality. From now on, I refuse to send any more books to CGC, period.
Yes but until we start to see videos selling cbcs slabs then it’s all talk. Enjoyable, satisfying talk but still talk
When you criticise CGC and yet still submit to them says what kind of character you have. I hate them and what they do and yet il keep submitting because I get more money from that label hahaha.. There is options like CBCS but yet nah I like going to the wolf in sheep’s clothing still
@@tensixtythreecomicsLast year was the first time I sent a couple autographed books to CBCS and when they came back I realized how much superior their cases are. The look and feel is amazing and superior to CGC.
@@AcidicJOyeah I did the same. Sent 19 books and some magazines. When you hold the cases you can feel they seem sturdier. I just wonder how they will answer this 9.9 prescreen. Clearly cgc/cbcs and others have been limiting grades to mainly 9.8 as a top grade. It’s easy look at all books graded and get a percentage of 9.9 and of 10s and compare that in a year. My guess is 10 X higher numbers.
@@AcidicJO Quality case, sure, but their labels are ugly as sin.
Spot on! Especially when you break down why CGC will eventually not survive with its current business model.
If the CGC video of how they determine a 9.9 and 10, then this Giant Size X-Men is not a legit 9.9. It's just proof of what CGC is planning to do to the market. It's very disappointing.
Yup. Sad
It’s not a 9.9.. it had color rub
Cgc are a bunch of scum bags and if anyone submits their book starts to them is just supporting there scam on how they do business and it’s all about manipulating the hobby prices..
Even that video is totally suspect. So because the person submitted 70 books(or maybe it was more can't remember) that means there has to be some 9.9s and 10.0s in there? So because I only submit 10books, I have no shot at a grade higher than 9.8? Sh*t is very suspect. If they introduce 9.9 pre-screen and they start flooding the market with them, all the graded market values are going to decline. 9.8s would become the new 9.6s and so on.
If that’s a 9.9 then every brand new comic should get a 9.9 - 10
Exactly
@@ComicBookInvestments It always bugged me when a perfectly good brand new mint comic would get graded in 9.8
Cgc needs to control the census
@@WadeNsladeoh they do, just not in the good moral business sense you are talking about.
You're absolutely correct on this. CGC is just trying to survive without changing their business plan.
My comic books will be sent to CBCS from this point forward. I
will no longer be sending my comic books to CGC. I've been having a terrible experience with them overdue grading times and blowing me off as a customer..
BUT this GSMN isn’t even a 9.8 candidate. You can easily spot spine issues, soft corners, smashed spine & color rub. And that’s on a 10 second look.
There’s another 9.8 in that same upcoming auction with tanning. They just tossed whatever sliver of integrity they had out the window.
It’s called dealer grading. Dealers & auction houses have been getting gift grades from the dawn of CGC.
@@davidsamuelson2089😉💪
that 9.8 was from the same submission there is also an ASM 129 9.6 with multiple spine ticks a corner crunch and 2 small chips in auction also from the same submission.
With the uncertainty of the 9.9 market, I don’t think this book will sell for 250-500k. If the 9.8 is 22-25k currently, I think this 9.9 will finish at 80-125k
Especially when anyone with even a modicum of grading acumen would notice the conspicuous color breaking on the cover & realize the sliding scale is broken (if it ever worked at all)
I think it will go for $250,000
It sold for $170,000
The problem with this tactic by CGC is that 9.9s will no longer command the same kind of ridiculous prices once there are more of them.
Ya but they don’t care. They are in the business to stay in business lolu
They're looking at volume.
They don't care. They are looking at crack and resubmit fees.
Regarding your comment toward the end of the videos about CGC encouraging resubmissions by occasionally suppressing VERY strong books from highest grade...I've suspected that for a while.
I have an example for you...not as high-dollar as the GSXM #1 example, but here you go. About 8 years ago, I submitted my ASM #252, which I had purchased brand new, off the shelf at my comic shop where I went to college. (I had been separated from my collection for 25 years during my military career.) I'm not a professional grader, but I am an experienced grader, with about 300 submissions from my personal collection under my belt, and I had always recorded my "predictions" in Excel. Even then (circa 2016), my books would come back at my predicted grade or higher 80% of the time. Anyway, this book looked DEAD MINT. I said to myself, "this comic is so perfect, I don't even want to risk a CCS press." Lo and behold, it comes back a 9.6 with a single grader note stating "stacking bend." BS. The books was one of the easiest lay-up 9.8s I'd ever sent. Not even borderline. So I grudgingly resubmitted thru CCS, and sure enough, it came back a 9.8 and looked EXACTLY the same. I know, a single data point, and only my eyes (and my track record) as basis for my suspicions. Well, they got their $12.00 pressing fee plus all the resubmit fees.
I just wish I didn't love slabs so much --- I really like how they present a book, and I think authentication (for restoral) is still a valuable service.
Yep from my experience that CCS 'pressing' for the in-house signings is more like a tax to keep the grade. The books always look the same
I am so happy you exist on the internet. Your feedback is backed up by genuine experience and it is obvious you know your craft. This is literally scam level nonsense by CGC and their corporate owners. Greed. I do think this will backfire for them however and cause a revolt when those with higher grade books watch their values plummet - and I don't mean just 9.8 book owners. All the 9's will plummet in value. Only the lower tier CGC grades will be somewhat unaffected. This said, I am a pragmatic investor in my books and I will follow where the money goes - and CGC knows that many will do the same. What I think CGC may not know is that this could cause CBCS to become the more trusted certifier of books - and relegate CGC into a a surprise runner-up status that CBCS has been in for so long. I actually trust CBCS more today - simply because of what CGC is doing with this 9.9 money grab.
I applaud you once again for your honesty and POV. For a guy who sells slabbed books you could just say, “this is great!” to encourage sales and grading.
I just tell it how I see it
I never understood why some of the most perfect comic books came back 9.8. It was like they were afraid to give a 9.9 let alone a 10. I think they finally realized that. Plus now they're going to make a fortune with the 9.8s coming in for regrading. Especially the people that have access to lots of 1970s 9.8's. Those people are going to be submitting like crazy searching for the gold mine. A lot of these big time comic shops that have these type of issues will be doing it. The timing is perfect it gets everyone's mind off the scandals that are going on with C G C. I think their business was in trouble from these scandals too. It sure made me reevaluate how many books I want to submit.
I sent in a rare variant of Street Fighter VI #0. I sent in two copies. Never took them out of the bag and board they came in straight from Udon. One looked literally perfect with not a single flaw, not even with the corners. Came back a 9.8. And the other looked almost as perfect, 9.6. Kinda infuriating.
The CGC grading score is becoming the modern day Emperor's New Clothes
CGC will do the 9.9 prescreen. Asshat Nelson already sold as much that they’ll be doing that & charging more for the review service b/c it will take them more time to examine the books.
Well done! You covered ALL the ramifications, motivations, and reasonings. This is how business decision makers operate across ALL industries.
At the end of the day, it’s about “fiduciary responsibility”. That means, you can throw out any semblance of integrity. Businesses are amoral entities. It is up to the consumer to draw a line on how far a company can go before their business practices become “unacceptable”.
It is a self limiting industry, especially when you consider the modern comic industry is contracting. Eventually they will run out of books to grade. There is clearly a color rub to the left of Nightcrawlers hip over where the staple sits. To justify this as a 9.9 this staple bump/rub must now be classified as a "production" error.
This is so true. After the 're-holder' scandal all of a sudden CGC pre-screens for 9.9's and they are popping up all over the place. Total bait and switch, smoke and mirrors.
I think you just nailed it. So you are telling me that a comic book grading service is manipulating the market? Have to agree with you. The service is one and done. Thank you for your content. Love your ranting. It makes sense.
Send your books to CBCS 🙂
Perhaps someone has done this before, but I would like to see someone take a book with very specific defects, send it to CGC and get a grade, crack it, send it to CBCS see what grade it gets, crack it, send it to CGC, and then repeat the process one more time and send it to CBCS.
Assuming the book doesn't receive any additional damage during the process, it would be interesting to see a test case for consistency in grading between the two companies.
Dave, the CGC model was bad for the customer from day one (paying a % instead of a flat fee for grading). A flat fee, no matter how old the book is, fixes everything!
kind of a textbook conflict of interest sheesh
Comic Connect and Heritage have a lot of pull in the market so we can read between the lines on this
Bingo
In my honest opinion cgc business is ridiculous .. I’m also getting back 8.5 - 9.2 that look as good as some of my 9.8s
I’m currently selling 7 boxes of graded books which is most my collection just because I don’t feel so good about a lot of books
Also cgc just recently water damaged two of my books in a submission, not expensive books but someone definitely spilled something on them, just not worth sending them back
Whoever owns the few 9.9's should consider selling now cause once the floodgate of 9.9's opens, the value will adjust based on supplies.
A floodgate of 9.9s will devalue all 9.9s and every lower grade as well.
@@bandoogiemanz Very true, but 9.9's will get the biggest hit cause they've been valued so high due to their rarity and the valuation gap between a 9.9 and 9.8 is much bigger than a 9.8 and 9.6 and so on. Any books with a grading below 9 should be okay I think.
If you wanted your mattress store to fail, naming it "SleepLess" would definitely be a good start. But, it would get you listed in the phone book before "SleepMore".
"MATTRESS TRAIN" STILL HAS ME ROLLING LOL LOL 8-D
@@danalvin1184I missed that one!! Had to go back and hear it. Lol
First off, you put out very good content and I appreciate the breakdowns and your opinions on these type of subjects. Secondly, just wow…. CGC is not going to like your show. This has to be one of the best breakdowns of how CGC has the entire comic book world ….. essentially by their throats. The fact that you can break this down and give us this information. Amazing job brother! Keep up the good work.
100% spot on with your analysis this is why i said grading is a scam
You are on point with your opinions. This whole 9.9 pre-screening is very suspicious. And now the 9.8, which we all just accepted as the best grade will be devalued or not as desired as a 9.9. CGC should not have ever charged a percentage of the FMV of expensive books because it can be viewed that a grade for a book can be affected due to the potential extra profits for CGC. A flat rate for all books to keep things on the up and up. Now I understand why so many people are moving away or cutting back on grading books. If you want to see that 9.9 Giant-size X-Men you can see a great analysis of the actual book @Automatic Comics. Thanks for making this video.
Aren’t we all subbing our books back every 5yrs to CGC to get the acid paper changed out!! Dam I thought we were all doing this 😂😂😂
You are exactly right, CGC needs to generate more revenue because Modern books are not enough. The reholder scandal has slowed down their revenue streams so much that they decided to do this 9.9 thing now. That’s why Matt Nelson did the interview with the 9.9 Newsstand to get this going. Blackrock has him by the balls and he has to keep that revenue high or they will get rid of him.
99% of what was said in this video needs to be heard by 99 times more people than have viewed it so far.
2.6K at the time of this comment.
Very important video.
This video should’ve gone viral.
A lot of salty comments. I graded that book at least a 13.0 so 9.9 seems pretty harsh. 🤓
Hahhahaha
I’d argue that even at $25, the 3 mins they actually handle the book they’re still probably making a profit. That recent video I think he graded 400 new books and I bet it took him less than an hour.
That was comparison grading. I would think that would be a faster process than one by itself. Only a guess though.
'All the books that are worth graded will eventually be graded'...this isn't a static number though, especially with movie tie ins (worth it or not). For example, I don't think the 1st Metamorpho was on anyone's list until he was cast. Random appearances of characters spike buying and then grading of those related books (that no one was thinking about until then). So, what is worth grading changes week from week. Usually these books aren't really worth grading after their movie appearance though (see Him/Warlock).
At one time, I was thinking of acquiring signature 9.8s of a couple of nice books. Now, there's no way I want to bet on 9.8s maintaining their current values.
This is why I’m selling all my 9.8’s. 9.9’s are unenviable so I don’t want to lose money.
@@DanSchawbelI was thinking this will happen but I hadnt considered my few signature series books. I may have to seriously consider letting them go.
Does the 9.9 prescreen mean that only those who pay for the service will get 9.9s or 10.0s or are they now going to accurately grade all books regardless?
CCG started as a currency company! CGC is the comic grading portion. There’s like eight companies underneath the CCG Banner. Good Lord. I understand that what they’re doing is not good for the hobby, but that one comment just boggles my mind.
At this rate, they might as well raise the ceiling to 10.2, 10.4....lol
Did you know even in the 70's people said, "this modern stuff will never be worth what the older stuff is worth?" My opinion is there will always be stuff that breaks trending cycles, for example ASM 300.
You’re 100% correct I was telling my lcs this exact same thing he literally thinks I’m crazy. Every bad thing that happens in cards comics always follows the exact same path it never fails.
This is what happens when human subjectivity and intrinsic motivations manipulate what should be an objective process. CGC could have implemented machine learning (AI) years ago to grade their books and didn’t because they know there’s a constant revenue stream for resubmits. Now they are doing it again with this gimmick. They know the psychology of greed and nerds, and will exploit it over and over again.
CGC has obviously watered down its grading standards as evidenced by the "9.9" Giant-Size X-Men #1. Why? To make more money, as you stated. More and more will gamble with their 9.8 copies, hoping to get that coveted 9.9.
They are a for-profit business it’s their fiduciary duty to wipe our bank accounts dry.
That’s why I watch you and few others Dave…you give honest opinion. Most you tube influencers get kick backs from CGC, Go collect and short box and tell comic collects everything is all good 😅
Ya I can’t help it 😂 I just say what’s on my mind
As for world wide recognition of comic characters i would say there are only 5 A listers Superman, Spiderman,Batman,Wolverine and Hulk.
Substantially more B tiers like Wonder Woman and probably Iron Man (but only because of RDJ). In fact someone had a completle melt down at me when i suggested Stark was a C list hero before the movies. Actualy C list isnt so bad i would define them as capable of carrying a book but unknown to the general public.
I remember last year a girl at work asking me what i was doing at the weekend and i said i was off to see the new Ant man movie. She thought i was winding her up that there could actually be a hero called Ant Man. Eventually had to pull up youTube and the trailer. Point is all that Avengers End game hype and stuff and it still hadn't raised the profile of a bunch of these heroes enough for a Norm to have even heard of them.
Great video Dave! Interesting to know what exactly is considered acceptable now as a 9.9 grade. Does CGC have that new criteria published and does it mean our 9.6s are the new 9.8s? It’s anyone’s guess I suppose.
Thanks for sharing!
You are 100% correct on this scrupulous manufactured issue. I could not agree more on all the issues and theories that you point out.
The one thing that I would add that seems very obvious to me is that CGC through all of its recent litigation has learned that putting comics into their slabs with grades that are not truly deserved whether through illegal means (please see pending litigations), or in this case by over-grading the occasional valuable grail that they themselves CGC, can now benefit from a legalized re-holdering/switching out lower grade copies that are clearly not deserving of the new grade.
CGC has basically just taken the exploitations used and exposed by those that they now are suing and found a legal yet questionable way to keep those undeserved profits and margins for themselves.
Truly a shameful act by a once trusted company.
Anyone that has made more than a couple submissions to CGC has been left scratching their head trying to figure out how a perfect looking book received the same or lower grade than an obviously flawed book, not to mention the times that a book sent in flawless condition comes back with a mysterious corner crunch.
Totally agreeing with you Bub...and CGC got me like a sucker, a honeybee buzzing over a pasture of flowers.
I am one of those guys who is very optimistic when I have old graded books in my hands. I resubmit them over and over to get the grade I want or hope to obtain. Meanwhile, CGC is gladly collecting the service fees each and every time.
It's all a money scheme; masterly planned by CGC.
Definitely can see your point.
I agree with you Dave, on the 9.8 grading, I've seen it and there's a RUclipsr that submits every week to CGC calling the graders "Harsh Harry" and "Loose Larry". With this much disparity in graders, you can buy a 9.4-9.6, but pay the price of a 9.8 because CGC graded it that way. This RUclipsr only complained about Harsh Harry, I'm sure he has a lot of lower actual grade books, but you can bet he's selling at the top price due to the CGC label.
The 9.9 book has huge staple indents next to nightcrawler. Not a "9.9" whatever the f that even is.
Ya it’s crazy how brand new modern books that are perfect can only get a 9.8 but this gets a 9.9
Vinnie the dirt bag shilling you with his CGC toadies.
I feel the whole attitude towards getting books graded becoming negative in this community it’s noticeable now nearly everyone sees it as a scam
Spot on. These companies always have to figure out a way to sheer the sheep again. Getting thousands and thousands of 9’8’s and some 9’6’s resubmitted for the 9.9 screen is another grift. In ten or twenty years they could come up with a 10 pre screen. I’m a card collector and I’m waiting for PSA to change their label, add security features, etc…just so they can get tens of thousands of slabs resubmitted. Try to only get sheered once.
Yup. There will be a 10.0 pre screen for sure
Come for the info, stay for the rants!!! I am slowly losing confidence in CGC for sure.
CGC has knowingly and adversely has affected the market value of many comic books!
Yep
After many decades, finally a 9.9 LOL .... shits funny
You are right-on.👍🏼
I absolutely agree!!100 %
You got a point Dave, once all the good books are graded that's it but there will be reholder's for cracked cases. I got nothing but keys issues and will get some of my big books graded one day but I have always looked at grading as a scam cause it's nothing but a money thing that's it.
We usually get a rant in the middle of a comic viewing. This time, we got full-on rant. Nice!
David is the man you tell them how it is and they hate that that’s why I loved your show but everything that goes up. Come down you’re right thank you for the video.
If CGC allows resubmitting slabbed 9.8s for a chance to get an upgrade without any downside risk, that’s great. They make lots of money and we can try to upgrade our books if we want. The problem is that they are also changing their grading standards to further incentivize resubmitting. This GSX 1 is obviously NOT a 9.8 under the standards we used to know.
😂 the mattress story had me laughing, no one is loyal to their mattress company 😂😂
I love your rants man, totally agree and keep up the good work!
This was hilariously timed! It’s almost like CGC is doing this just to spite you for saying there weren’t a butt ton of Mint keys waiting to get graded. We all know how CGC rolls when it comes to market manipulation so this wouldn’t be new.
you’ll never see brys comics go on rants like this cause after all he’s gotta feed his family
He actually just did a video talking about it and he does say CGC is in the wrong.
This “ 9.9 “ should literally be glistening and practically singing to us comic collectors but based on the pictures I’ve seen, no. This is the latest scheme from BlackStone Grading Co. ( Formerly known as CGC ).
To: Well…Everyone!!,
“He’s not coming back to you! No one has allegiance to their mattress company!“
Then… I just fell out at my job watching Dave …LOL…!!!!!!😂 😂😂😂
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣….!!!
- Thank you.
( I needed that Laugh! )
This comic is nearly 50 years old, how is it a 9.9!!!
That is an interesting argument: As you mentioned, all the Big Big books are already graded and no more of them exists RAW. They are also not worth cracking to re-submit due to the cost.
I had a House of Slaughter #1 CGC 9.8 that had a 1/2 inch spine split that I didn't understand how it could possibly have happened then I saw the video of the 200 power rangers books being graded and realized that only 45 seconds was spent looking over the whole book and that explained it. CGC's decisions of late are doing them more harm than good and I am all for it.
I agree... perfect time for CGC to do so. Coincidence or business decision to force a 9.9 on a big grail book. I call BS, but good attempt to produce excitement to resubmit some 9.8s.
Did you get a close look at the back cover that's why I think it should not be even a 9.8, unless the camera image is flawed the back cover is dirty near the spine. The front cover could be a gem mint 10 but the back should be at the best a 9.6
Cgc might be surprised! I'm over them really and if I just have to grade something I'll probably use cbcs!
Since they started pre screening for 9.9’s they’ve lowered the standards. I sent in a book a few months ago and it came back a 9.9 and I’ve never got a 9.9. And a couple of my friends got 9.9 on there books.
I appreciate this video David.
Good Rant, good point. Sent 9.6's look like 9.8's they came back 9.2 , 9.. these were big books.
Isn’t re-grading a 9.8 as a 9.9 admitting that they didn’t grade the book properly the first time? How is that supposed to give anyone confidence in their business??? Maybe I should send in my 6.5 GSX 1 to see if I can get a 9.9 lol.
It's like when Elon say, "FSD" and investors start drooling. It's never gonna happen in our lifetime, but they gotta try and pump up the stock somehow. It's almost as if capitalism is a scam 🙃
you are right on you have seen a ton of books so you know what your talking about
CGC just destroyed the Comic Collecting Industry….why would they ever EVER do this.
Thank fuck you've FINALLY seen the light.
All CGC do.... is make the hobby more expensive, all for a plastic holder.
Funny that came out right as hype around the X-Men was building because of the new animated series.
You're talking about "legal fraud," essentially. If there were industry-wide grading standardization and these were public and not private companies this would be much harder to happen.
No question that CGC is doing this to motivate collectors to re-submit. Actually a smart move on their part because they know the comic community won’t be able to help themselves. They are also moving to pulps and manga to offset the dwindling comic grading market. This will keep the cash cow flowing for a period of time. Automatic Comics looked at the 9.9 Giant Size X-Men and concluded that it likely was a 9.8. I wouldn’t touch the 9.9 for that reason.
The 9.9 hunt is going to be like the BGS black label hunt
Idk why they can’t be happy that it’s a 9.8…that’s a MONSTER grade for that book. But of course…have to up it to 9.9…and anyone who thinks it’s a coincidence after the video and prescreen is kidding themselves.
CGC is untouchable though….same people complaining is the same people who will submit to them over and over and over again. I love slabbed books…just stating facts.
P.S…they’re saving the 10 prescreen after people find fake autos or purposely send in fake autos to see if it passes….with the JSA thing. That’s after the next scandal 😂
This is your best video to this date imo
GCG changing their grading standards 24 years into their business is going to kill the integrity of their service.
Sadly over the last 6-8 months and 3 CGC scandals in those 6-8 months I have totally lost interest in comics anymore and I have THOUSANDS invested in this (about $100k). I have been collecting comics since the 1980's and getting them graded since mid 2000's. I thought CBCS would capitalize off of all of the CGC mistakes and they have not I even even removed MOST of my comics from E-bay because THEY no are working with the IRS for anything sold over $600 in a year (never was like that before) you have to pay taxes on. So many things have happened in the last year I simply give up. I am going to try and sell the comics I have remaining in other ways. I am NOT paying taxes on something I already paid taxes on and the CGC scandal and continued foolishness by them has me jumping THIS sinking comic book industry ship. Good luck to those who stay in this thing. I now looking to buying and selling precious metals and other thing going forward.
Way to go CGC!!! If people are careless with their money and keep falling for the grift then by all means keep bending them over and doing it with NO VASELINE 😂😂 #RAW
Recently I gave five books to CGC and my friend said they are worthy of a 9.8 after a pressing. The books are Amazing Spiderman #300, Amazing Spiderman #361, Amazing Spiderman #316, Ultimate Fallout #4, and Luke Cage Hero For Hire #1. So CGC will make more money give them 9.8 or 9.9 based on their current pricing model?
If you have a 9.9 CGC comic book, never take the risk to send it in for a 10.0, it’s not logical! the bottom line truly believe CGC has adversely affected the grading curve and value of books
Yep I just auctioned my 9.8’s
ive sent in hundreds of modern books to CGC and have never got a 9.9, a 10 isnt even on the radar...on a 25 book submission 9.8 prescreen i would get around 4 rejects and 21 9.8s never a 9.9
Contrary to many collectors' belief a CGC 9.8 is and never has been the highest possible grade attainable for their collections and have paid outrageous prices for them. This is a major reason why so many are angry about more potential 9.9's coming into the market making their 9.8's the new 9.6's.
9.8 was the most common high grade so people bought it thinking there wouldn’t be 9.9’s coming to market. Now it’s too risky to buy a 9.8 knowing you could lose a ton of money.
@@DanSchawbel I wasn't one of those people. I bought 9.6's (now the new 9.4's). I used the money I saved to buy Silver Age grails and Golden Age.
@@rocketfighter8ya if you’re lucky 🍀
If u crack a 9.8 and send for a 9.9 pre-screen. If it fails it will come back raw right?
Doesn’t this mean that CBCS is also necessarily failing? What you’re describing would require that all comic grading companies are failing.
The problem I have with the increase of harsh criticism is the only viable alternative is CBCS which his father is the head grader. Not saying there is anything untoward or malicious, but it makes being objective difficult.