A Shower Knee Wall To Support A Glass Enclosure
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 18 сен 2024
- My client wanted a two sided glass enclosure for the shower, and the budget would only allow for a shower pan. When I realized that a dual-threshold corner pan would not fit in the space because of the drain, I had to figure out another way. I was able to use a single threshold alcove style pan with the drain in the right place and sit it against a short knee wall which would leave room for the glass enclosure on two sides. See how I supported that knee wall from movement with a built-in cabinet.
That cabinet shoring up that knee wall is ingenious. Really nice tile work too! 👍
Thanks! That cabinet really made this solution possible, otherwise I would have had to do a much more expensive tiled shower floor.
Nice! Great job with the Shelving unit.
You sure do beautiful work! Nice solution to a difficult problem.
Thanks for sharing. I really like the way it turned out
I can’t imagine it would have been more than $500 or so extra from the current setup including the custom shelving unit, over a tiled floor without the unit. The cost of labor for framing the wall, the extra tile for the wall, the cabinet, extra finishing with baseboard etc all adds up as well.
It's actually more like a couple of thousand dollars when you add up the cost of the Schluter shower system I use, the cost of the floor tile, the additional labor for tiling the shower floor, and the additional plumbing work to connect a drain to the Schluter system. True, some of that was consumed by the cost of the cabinet. The wall framing and additional trim only added 30 minutes of labor, if that. Installing a Schluter tray with tiled floor would have allowed greater latitude in placement of the drain but it also eats up labor time while you work out that placement and install the tray. Then you need more time to install the membrane on the floor and walls, and to tile the floor. Plus, it drags out the whole process while thinset cures in between.
Wish you would have panned out to show the shower head and the completed tile work. Otherwise looks lovely!
When I get some time I'll get pictures up on my website--it's been a busy spring!
What about just running a post up to the ceiling at end of knee wall and the glass enclosed?
If you run a post or stud up to the ceiling and tie it in there, that will solve the problem of the knee wall end movement. However, it will introduce other problems. First, it won't be very attractive, and, second, you'll have to figure a way to waterproof that connection. Of course, another way to go is to just use glass all around. You build a waterproof curb on two or three sides and just have the glass company build the two or three walls connected to each other.
Could you use a vanity on the other side of that half wall to shore it up? I have a small bathroom and I want to build something very similar to this.
Almost anything with a big enough footprint could be used, but if you are going to use a vanity you'll need to take some extra steps. The reality is that all modern vanities are not very sturdy or strong. Unless you build one yourself or have a cabinet shop make you a custom vanity, you'll need to shore up a vanity purchased off the shelf. Off-the-shelf vanities are designed to use a wall for support, not the other way around! So you could add plywood or internal bracing to an off-the-shelf vanity to strengthen it enough to keep a half wall steady. I would also add hidden bracing to the wall if possible, as a belt-and-suspenders approach.
hello sir thanx for the reply n link to this video, i see your knee wall , but my pony wall would be on the wall less side that has no flange? can i still add the pony wall like we want too?? thanx again
You lost me, I'm not sure what you are trying to do. Can you describe what it would look like when you are done?
Really helpful video. It wouldn't work in this scenario since you were installing a pan but do you think installing a shower bench would be enough to stabilize a knee wall? Would you have any concerns with stabilization with that approach?
Possibly. I'd likely combine steel brackets with the bench, though. You don't want to get in a situation where there is a co-dependency between the bench and the wall. If there are steel brackets doing most of the work and the bench is designed in a way that maintains both structural rigidity and waterproofing, that's fine. Remember, the bench could leak too.
Great Video and solution! We have a similar issue in a 1969 1300sqft bungallow. We expanded the master ensuite to 107.7x103.5 and think it will allow us to have a 72" double vanity, toilet, shower and a tub. On the 107.5 side we would like a 60" tub (lengthwise) at one end and a shower at the other. If we use a 60" alcove tub that leaves 47.5" for the shower, but of course we have to manage the transition from the tub to shower, maybe with a knee wall and glass enclosure on top? We would really like a stand alone tub which would allow us to put up a glass shower enclosure, but we probably need at least 2-3" on each side of the tub, which puts us at about 66" for tub space which shrinks our shower by 4-6" rather than a 3.5" knee wall. My question is how best to take full advantage of the space? Can we put an alcove tub right against the shower glass, and mount faucets on the side of the tub? Maybe by use a thin panel to hide the alcove opening? Or do we use a knee wall and mount the glass on the top edge (of the tub side) and use the ledge for shampoo etc in the shower? We would like the shower door to be connected to this piece of glass so do we need to have it connected to the roof for stability? any suggestions would be appreciated.
I'd have to see the space in person to be able to offer much help. Apparently some or all of this bath is new to the space? I'm not hearing you talk about plumbing and code issues. You can't necessarily plop down a tub or shower wherever you want, you need to understand how the drains and vents are plumbed. The first thing a pro wants to know after demo is where the drains and associated pipes are relative to where fixtures are hoped to go. Drains are gravity operated, and the house framing can be modified only so much. Sometimes moving a drain just a few inches can mean many thousands of dollars. Similarly, every trap must be vented and you need to make certain you can get that vent out to daylight somehow. A double sink will require modification of the wall framing to get the drains and vents where they need to go. Another code issue is the toilet, which must have 15 inches on either side of the center line and minimum 21 inches clear space in front. Plumbing supply lines need to be kept on interior walls, which is another limiting factor if some walls are on the exterior.
I suspect you will have trouble fitting in all that you describe, and I'm not convinced it's a good idea anyway, since you'll end up with two walls packed with fixtures even if you can get the plumbing worked out. The door to the room is another factor. I would suggest having a plumber or remodeler come out and take a look at your existing plumbing. Even if you intend to do the work yourself, paying a pro a few hundred bucks for a consultation would be well worth the investment. My guess is that you'll need to choose a shower or a tub, not both.
@@enduringcharm Thanks for quick response and feedback. It quickly turned into a "down to the studs" reno, upstairs and down, and we've had a plumber do the drainage and run some of lines already so we are committed already. I think we have all our ducks in a row regarding permits and have passed inspection. Not sure I can attach a pic here to provide more clarity, but just to clarify a couple questions: could we put a glass wall of the shower right up against the end of an alcove tub? I have not found any pics online. I see some pics with shower doors connected to a glass wall that is only connected to the floor and the wall, but not the ceiling....I assume the door must be light weight glass to be supported like that? If we did do a knee wall with glass on top, we'd need the shower door to be attached to that glass wall, and we want to ensure it has no problem supporting it. Thanks again for your help!
Yeah, the ability to attach pictures would be a nice youtube feature! My understanding is that you are trying to maximize space with a tub and shower adjacent to each other in a 107 inch space. You didn't mention if that measurement is stud to stud, or if your shower will be a custom tiled floor or a pan. If you are using a shower pan, you are limited to standard sizes. So, a 60 inch tub requires a 60 inch rough opening. For an alcove tub you need a wall located on both ends. Presumably you are tiling above the tub, which means that even if you try to install a knee wall on one end it will need to be tall enough to accept the tub lip and at least one row of tile. The opposite side of such a knee wall, then, would also be tiled. If the wall is not going to the ceiling then you need some method of securing the structure, as described in my video. Plausibly you could install custom 90 degree metal brackets on both sides of such a knee wall, though it would take some careful work. That leaves 43 inches from your original 107. There is no shower pan that size, so you'd have to do a custom tiled base, or else move down to a 36 inch shower pan. The latter would allow you to expand the knee wall depth, which would help with stability, but you'd still need brackets. In that case, the glass would be installed on the edge of the shower and you'd have a small shelf on the tub side. The glass door would be hinged on the full wall if possible or on the half wall and upper glass if not.
What you are proposing, though, is tricky at best. I'm not at all certain I'd be on board with the bracket idea. If those brackets can't make the knee wall solid, you risk cracked tiles and leaks. Extensive waterproofing would be needed too. I'd have questions about which direction doors open and where the supply plumbing will be run for both tub and shower. Is having a separate shower and tub that critical? A 36 or 43 inch shower is cramped anyway. Why not just have a tub with a shower? It would be larger and more comfortable, and then you could use the additional space for another purpose, such as a makeup station or cabinet storage/shelves.
Thank you for your videos. I wish you lived near me! I would hire you immediately because of your extensive knowledge. I have questions about the cabinet supporting the knee wall. Does the cabinet have to be that deep? Could it be 5" deep and still support the knee wall? My new tub is 21.25" tall, and I want a short knee wall on the end of it with glass on top of the marble cap. How tall will the knee wall need to be? My knee wall will have a toilet facing it. Minimum code is 21" between the knee wall and toilet, so I have 5" left over for the cabinet. Will this be enough support or should I have a full height wall for support and skip the glass? I am either tiling the walls or using Onyx Collection or Swanstone wall panels. Thanks.
With only a five inch deep cabinet that's not much support. I think you could get away with it under two conditions. First, as I discussed in the video, install metal "L" brackets inside the knee wall under the new tub. You'll have to look around Home Cheapo for beefy shelf brackets or find somebody local to bend or weld up some steel bar stock. Typically there is some space under the tub, but watch closely for interference. The brackets will provide some support.
For the other side build a cabinet for more support. Since you only have five inches of depth, you want to build that cabinet like a brick sh*ithouse so it doesn't flex. Screw it to the floor and to the wall, and that should do it. The combination of the two sides should be enough. Also, take care to use dry, stable lumber for the wall itself.
Where can you buy the marble slab for the top of the knee wall.
Any tile retailer will have a selection of it. They are often sold in six foot lengths, sometimes in three foot lengths.
Could you have fit a curbless flush mount (to the subfloor) pan, in there with the updated drain? That would have let you delete the knee wall, giving the home owner that option for the glass. I understand that cost was the driving factor but was it possible?
Do you mean a barrier-free shower where the room floor goes right into the shower space? Those are FAR more expensive to build and in this case would have been impossible anyway, since the floor trusses cannot be modified. The curbless or barrier-free showers require recessing the shower floor below the plane of the room floor in order to create slope for drainage. It also requires waterproofing the entire floor. In most cases it's only practical to create those showers in new construction or during extensive whole-hose or whole-floor remodeling when you can get at the structure.
the marble cap. Is there a pitch to it for run off? or is it flat-level?
I'll typically try to pitch it slightly toward the inside. The glass installed later will prevent any water from getting out but you don't want it puddling either.
Do you happen to have an "after" picture?
Here you go...
enduringcharm.com/gallery/bath-master-halfwall.html
@@enduringcharm Thank you! That looks great.
Good solution but at the end of the day what did they really save? I’m guessing less than $500. Your time to work all this out was worth more than that.
It's actually much more than that when you add up the cost of the Schluter shower system I use, the cost of the floor tile, the additional labor for tiling the floor, and the additional plumbing work to connect a drain to the Schluter system. It's more on the order of a couple of thousand dollars, plus it slows down the tiling process.
I'm in the process of building the exact same shower lay out, only my bath tub will sit against the half wall. How can I make the half wall more sturdy in my situation, thanks.
Well, the same trick with the built-in cabinet on the other side could be used. You don't want to rely on the tub itself to give support, since it isn't designed for that purpose. My tips in the video apply to either a shower base or a tub, though.
@@enduringcharm thanks for the quick response, but I don't have room for the cabinet only the tub.
Then you'd need to explore metal brackets that are buried in the floor and the half wall, as I discussed in the video.
Ok I guess I missed the part about the metal bracket, again thank you for taking the time to help me, I will get brackets.
To be clear, this is something you'll have to "invent" yourself. There isn't a commercial product that I know of for this purpose. On the tub side the brackets could be exposed since there is typically extra air space between the tub and the wall framing. Just measure how much space you have available, and then design a 90 degree bracket with triangulation for each stud. A local welder could make that up for you quickly out of steel bar if you don't have your own welder. Possibly there is a heavy-duty commercial shelf bracket you could use instead, but you'll have to poke around and see.