@@CynicallyObnoxious Shawn had an issue with Vader because Vader was too stiff and kept hitting him hard, so Shawn warned him if he hurt him, he'd be fired, which would've happened, so Shawn having that fit basically saved Vader's job. If he did hurt Vince's start, he would've been fired.
Problem with Vader had to do with timing and yes they could have made money that year off of Vader just switch Vader with Psycho Sid meaning at Summerslam Shawn brats Sid then one month latter Vader beats Shawn for the title a month later beats Bret Hart successfully defend against Bret Hart now we do fancy booking cause Razor and Diesel are leaving at beginning of year so at the Rumble Vader beats Razor then At in your house Vader beats diesel so Vader is Probibly hot by mania and he can either drop it to taker like Sid or HBK it would have also had made Kane hot because he wluld have beaten Vader coming in the following year
The way Conrad says it almost sounds like who was perceived to have gotten the better trade at the time it happened. And at the time it happened it would’ve been a better seen get for WWF. With the way it worked out I don’t think anybody could make a genuine case that Vader did more for WWF than Luger did for WCW. So I think he meant at the time here.
Conrad is so horrible, fucks up so many segments trying to be dramatic. Also it fucks up so many segments when he starts with " Meltzer rated this" or "Keller said that". He's horrible as a host. Can't hold a candle to the great Brian Last
Paul was no pushover and neither was Vader. I'm glad Tony has told the right version on what happened. There's alot of differnt stories out there on what happened.
I worked on the production crew for WCW from 91 to 95 and all the TV tapings and PPVs Center Stage was a very small venue. Our lighting controller and audio mixing console was set up backstage near the dressing rooms. we heard the fight and looked down the hall to see all hell break loose! Tony is correct! he was RIGHT there! As for Vader, He was never cool to any of the production people or WCW staff. On the bright side , I did get to hang with great guys like Dustin Rhodes, Steve Austin, Mick Foley among others! And Ric Flair was as cool as can be! fun times! RIP Leon White! AKA Vader
Vader came in strong in the beginning of his WWF run. He was great in the 96 Royal Rumble and he put Monsoon in the hospital - which was a big deal at the time as no one had ever touched Gorilla prior or since. Vader had massive heat for that. The rest of his career wasn't great but early on, he was a monster heel. I swear, people seem to forget how much heat Vader had for putting Monsoon in the hospital. People today make it seem as if Vader came in with 0 heat and was buried from the start when that simply isn't true.
Hehe! Not only that but everyone who was interviewed about this unanimously sided with Orndorff and agreed that he beat up Vader that day. I guess Vader wasn't well liked during that time period. The only one who tells a different account or ending to the story, I should say, is Vader.
Schiavone doesn't strike me as a bullshitter .. Orndorff was a tough street fighter from Tampa.. I'm from Tampa, and Paul is a little older than me. I can tell you there was a lot of street tough white boys in Tampa back in the 70's and 80's who would fight for money (fight club style) … Orndorff made a name for himself doing that. He was a tough, strong dude with super quick hands. Vader was big and strong, but if Paul got him on the ground, it was over....
Vader let him, then felt ashamed and called orndorff to come out of his dressing room, haku told vader that's enough, haku himself said vader would have severely hurt orndorf if vader wanted
@@tonymctony4551 if they didn't seperated them when paul was stomping vader he would have smashed vader skull I don't care what happened next vader got his ass saved when they first seperated them
Personally I am most inclined to believe Tony Shiavone's recollection of the events. He seems to be one of the most likely people to have actually been right there when it happened that doesn't have a bias concerning the outcome. Also, weirdly, his story is different enough from everyone else's that I find it more believable. A lot of the other stories feel to me like they are just repeating what they heard from someone else while saying "I was there" because maybe they were in the same building or worked at WCW and heard about it shortly after. My guess is that there's no more than 4-5 people alive who know what really happened and 90% of those people are more interested in jobbing someone out or getting someone else over than just telling the truth.
Yep. Tony is a straight-shooter. He was also never a drinker or druggie, so his memory is good. It is telling that Bischoff trusted Tony's version of events.
Schiavone's version lines up with Orndorff's...but there's so many different retellings that it's hard to say. As a fan Orndorff, I'd like for his story to be true that he kicked Vader's ass with at 46 and a bad arm. Too bad they didn't do Hogan and Orndorff on the first Nitro. That would have been a great match. I love Orndorff's late-95 run. Him getting the new theme and coming out with a mirror fit so well, plus they were booking him wrong. It's too bad he had to retire.
No matter how much you insist on how it was ridiculous of a 46 year "old man" to whip a 450 pound monster.. The truth is that there were very few 26 year olds out there who could take on Paul in a real actual fight and don't come out crying for their mommas..
Mike tenny is awesome. He did sound a bit bored towards the end of his announcing run in tna tho. But I'd take tennay and don west over jr and taz in aew anyday.
Saw Orndorff at my HS in the early 80s with Andre and others. Paul was in the hallway before the event bouncing a pinkie ball. No one wanted to go over to him and ask for an autograph or just say hi as he looked like he wanted to rip someone's head off
Maybe at the time you could look at this roundabout "trade" and say that WWF got the better side by getting Vader. After the fact though, I don't know how anyone can argue that WCW got the better end with Luger. Vader had one big push when he first joined WWF, then had flamed out in less than a year and floundered for a bit further. Luger was a staple of the upper mid-card and had plenty of stints in the main event scene for 4+ years. I'd rather have Vader in a vacuum, but Luger's run in WCW was vastly superior to Vader's WWF run.
Luger going to WCW was the better "trade" than Vader going to the then WWF in my opinion especially if you look back bc Luger was with WCW til the end and Vader didn't last too long in WWF.
Vader was loud, in pain and a pain in the ass to deal with. Orndorff has anger management issues. He also bit off a part of Tony Atlas' ear. Combine the two and you get a bad situation.
@@harrykadaras9459 I wasn't there in a lot of places, like the revolutionary war but I kind know what happened slick. That said this is already an old subject but I heard enough from a few sides and you could pretty much use logic at some point genius
I find it funny that everyone that says they were right there has told this story 8 different ways with 8 different endings. Then you here this crap and it's even worse. People say Ondroff had boots one, he had shower shoes on, Paul beat him up. Find the Meng interview on this and Meng will tell you that Vader was about to kill Orndorff and he had to stop it. He would also tell you the same thing Vader told everyone 2 years ago that Orndorff got knocked out and he actually let Orndorff hit him. Vader is the man that had his eye popped out of the socket while said socket was completely shattered and still wrestled another 8 minutes with Stan Fucking Hansen.
Way more people have confirmed that Paul beat the shit out of Vader, but you'll never believe the people who were actually there. You're a Vader groupie, just like several others who've commented here. ANYONE with common sense knows that a skilled wrestler can stretch a fat a$$ former football player ANY DAY of the week! Contrary to popular belief, bullies do get fucked up, on occasions. Vader was a WELL KNOWN bully, in the pro wrestling business. He finally fucked with the wrong guy, and got put in his place. Being 400+ LBS does not automatically give someone fighting skills. People seem to think Vader, who was made to look unstoppable in the ring (only with the assistance of the wrestlers who sold his moves), was Leon White's true persona. But outside of the ring, in a real fight, where no one's selling your moves, BIG VAN VADER got dropped & curb stomped by a wrestling AGENT! We're not talking about Orndorff in his prime, we're talking about a man with 1 good arm, wearing FLIP-FLOPS, kicking the ass of a man who thought he actually was the character he portrayed in the ring. Paul Orndorff - 1, Leon White - 0...but feel free to let your imagination run wild with whatever story keeps you in your comfort zone.
I listened to B. Brian Blair once tell a story about Orndorff beating the shit out of 7 cops; 4 of which he sent to the hospital. B. Brian Blair also says that Paul and Haku are two of the toughest bad asses in the business and you wouldn't want to fuck with either of them.
Vader became a face around that time, and at the time Hogan rarely fought other faces. Yeah yeah yeah, he lost to Warrior at WM6. But it was still very rare that he fought other faces.
@@justinmartin1831 I did not realize this happened in 1995 but even prior to realizing that when I read your comment I felt like Kevin was lying about being there and most likely just repeating someone else's story. Anything to get over I guess... lol. But thanks for pointing that out.
Im actually inclined to believe Tony Schiavone because he is one of the only people who said Paul was not wearing shower shoes. Too many people, like Nash, who could not or likely were not there have said he was wearing flip flops and that leads me to believe they are just repeating what they've heard. Half of them are probably watching the same videos we are to get the story lol.
Man I'm sure you've been in some fights...I damn sure have, I've got a black eye right now lol. Anyways do you ever remember the specific type of shoes you were wearing in a fight 10+ years ago? I definitely don't, and I don't remember my opponents either. The shower shoe thing to me is more likely one person told the story and everyone else just repeated that story.
Jim Duggan said that Vader threw the first punch, causing Orndorff to spill his coffee. Duggan also said that if Orndorff had not been wearing shower shoes, that he would have beaten Vader much worse than he actually did. So there are conflicting accounts about the Vader vs. Ordorff backstage brawl. Both of these guys rubbed many other performers the wrong way.
I miss Tony. When I was a kid and we'd be playing with the action figures and we'd always commentate the toys and and for some reason I'd always be Tony and my friend would be Jr. Idk why but when we'd call the shots we were always those 2
The bigger question is what kind of man looks at another man's shoes? Unless he's wearing pink fluffy slippers or something, nobody would really notice.
I think the moral of the story is. When you're in that 250+ pound bracket. It doesn't matter if you're 50 or more pounds heavier. A 250 pound dude who knows how to punch can put you down. Tyson was maybe 200 when he was champion in the 80's.
Orndorff in interviews has said repeatedly he was wearing flip flops...he complained in an interview with jim cornette that he wished he had his boots on because kicking him in flip flops was hurting his foot...
after listening to various accounts which differ wildly i get the sense that a lot of people disliked vader and are giving a version of what they wanted to happen as opposed to what really happened. and they all omit the continuation of the fight which also makes me suspect they are not being completely honest, as orndorff himself admits he caught a few shots from vader. it also makes be suspect when orndorff has a great amount of detail about the first altercation but is very vague and quiet about the second altercation. the truth is the fight started up again and everyone seems to be mysteriously silent about that.
@@billphilips8522 no Orndorff is a bad azz. Dude can fight and does not mind fighting. When wrestling turns real Orndorff can hold his own and then some.
I wonder if the wrestlers during their (shoot interviews) ever call up each other and go yep the quote unquote work never ends..... some of them I feel like are more honest than not but there are some that these wrestlers just go above and beyond to keep the work going man it's awesome...
I've been to Center Stage, from what I remember it was a small venue, now that's from out where the fans sat, cause it was set up like a horse shoe the way the fans sat, with the ring at the bottom of the (pit) as it was called due to the way it was set up as an ampatheater. I don't know how you could not find someone the size of Vader back stage, unless that building was bigger than what us fans saw. But saw many great matches there they would do all the weekly shows right there in one night, doors would open up at 5pm and it was first come first serve to fill the seat's and it would run till 10-10:30pm. The Power Hour, WCW Saturday night, the NWA Main Event, and after each taping they'd change the banners on the sides of the ring to go with the show they were taping next. So you'd see the same group of fans for all the shows. It was great! The late 80's early 90's that was the place to be, for great wrestling with great story lines. I miss those days.
It's interesting that Vader himself absolutely, vehemently denied that this is what happened. He even swore on his kids' lives that it didn't go down like this. He was very believable in giving his side.
“Get him off of me!!!” - Vader And Paul was just stomping the fuck out of him. Hahahahahahahah !!!! I don’t care if this is exactly how it happened or not, this is absolutely hilarious. I can just imagine everything Schiavone is saying and I can’t stop laughing. Just the way he tells it, it doesn’t even have to be 100% true. Awesome story.
The only consistencies with all the eye witness accounts I've heard of the Vader and Orndorf fight is that Orndoff won and that he was stomping the shit out of Vader's head. That's it. Everything else is fuzzy. And also one thing is for certain, I haven't heard a single account that lines up with what Vader said happened himself. So I call bullshit on his story. He clearly got his ass kicked.
Who would ever say the WWF got the better of that? Vader was a bigger name, but they did nothing with him. Luger had the best run of his career after that.
Everyone would DEFINITELY not disagree with the statement that WCW got the better of the trade. WWE should have got the better of the year, Vader was a bigger draw. However, when you look at both of their careers over the next few years it's clear Lex Luger had a longer and better run with how he was used/pushed. Shit Vader was steadily injured in the WWE.
Vader was a serial liar. Tubby lug lied about playing in the Super Bowl for the Rams versus the Steelers. Vader never played a single regular-season or post-season game for any NFL team.
There's 2 accounts where Vader got the better of Paul after getting up from the initial ass whoopin. Vader himself & Buff Bagwell... For whatever that's worth lol.
Every body said orndorff had flip flops on an I believe them cuz if you stomp somebody's head into the ground with boots on you would kill them as for Vader leaving an lex coming to wcw well Vader flop in wwe an luger had some awesome runs in wcw with savage sting an the Wolfe pack an he came dirt cheap so there you go wcw won on that trade
I don't think the skull has a preference as to what kind of shoe is caving it in. Force is force. The only thing the boot offers is a better chance at not fucking your own foot up too
I buy that he was wearing flip flops or something and wouldn't blame Tony if he just kind of missed that detail in the heat of the moment. Tony's version of it sounds like the best "big picture" objective view of the incident. The best summary but not necessarily clear on the finer details. Either way, I completely believe Tony's being as honest as his memory allows.
I believe everyone's hatred of Vader and their stories changing....Has me to believe Vader's story! Not sayin Vader was a bad ass... But Paul's hand was banged up and he wasn't the same Mr Wonderful weight and health wise
So a dozen guys say Vader got his head kicked in and you don't believe it? If they're all lying cos they hate Vader then doesn't that tell its own story about what a dick Vader was?
I agree with Tony. Luger in WCW is better than Vader in WWF. Luger was more comfortable, fit better and was part of the main event scene til WCW folded. Luger received one of the few clean wins over Hogan in Aug '97. Vader in WWF should've been a bigger deal, but politics neutered him in the WWF. Find anything me a clip of Luger doing something worse in WCW than when Vader says "I'm a big fat piece of shit" and I'll consider rethinking Vader's value in WWF.
I know memory isn't perfect, not mine or anyone else's. However, typically when people are recalling events in other industries if you get a few people who were legitimately present for the event you can get a pretty damn good idea of what happened, but in there wrestling business? Shit all of WWE/WCW/ECW/TNA/AEW/AWA/OVW/NXT and New Japan could have seen in first hand and the shit could be on video and still no two stories will match up and most will be completely different. Pisses me off lol. There's almost nothing about this story that is clear, Vader won, Paul won, flip flops, boots, late, not late, Vader fired over it, Vader not fired over it, etc, etc. The only God damn thing that is for sure is that Vader hit Paul first.
I'd say WCW gained with Lex Luger, as opposed to WWF gaining with Vader. Lex Luger defeated Hulk Hogan by submission for the Big Gold Belt, and he lasted the whole Monday Night Wars in WCW (1995-2001); meanwhile Vader didn't win any championships in WWF, seemed weaker and only lasted 2 years, 1996-1998. WCW got the better deal, imo.
Can Conrad find 5 adults who think the WWF got the better of that trade? Not that Vader was lacking but he never got close to being the guy he was in WCW while Luger making the jump was the shot in the arm Nitro needed as a brand new wrestling show. By the second Nitro, they had beaten Paul down too much as a singles for anyone to be interested in him vs Hogan. They should have planned him as Hogan's first foe after he beat Flair in 95. Paul still had a lot left and his injury wasn't as advanced. That would make a better Starrcade 95 main event than what they had with Beefcake.
Orndorff got the better of Vader yes but to say he knocked him out? I don’t know. Vader has spent most of his career working stiff matches where guys are just blasting each other as hard as possible. He’s used to taking a pounding.
Idk man. Vader may have been the better talent but considering the milage the two companies got out of the two guys I would argue wcw got the better deal with luger. He was around for pretty much that entire time while vaders WWF run at that time was highly forgettable.
This is also a great example of carney unprofessional wrestling is. You have a roster that you don't transport but you expect to travel almost daily & then can't get them to an exact spot? Maybe if you had the proper arrangements this wouldn't happen. Do the Yankees ever have a problem getting a player to interview before a game or during training?
None of this is true I'll set the record straight I happen to be back in stage cleaning a bathroom when the fight broke out and Bruce Lee was a special guest referee and he was in the dressing room when it broke out and he tried to separate them and then Vader swung at Bruce and Paul grabbed him from behind so Bruce head-butted Orndoroff and broke loose and took both of them out with a 6-in punch
Hell Kevin Nash was still in the WWF at this time so it seems like everyone from every large wrestling company was in the hallway they fought in 30 years ago!
Vader was not going to win the title on the second Nitro. Hogan never would have gone for that. Besides, they had turned Vader babyface right before he left. He was going to team with Hogan, Savage and Sting against the Dungeon of Doom at Fall Brawl in the WarGames match. Luger took his place.
Y’all get this story right Paul had been in the bathtub with his scuba Steve gear Vader came in called Paul a sissy Paul got out karate kicked him with his flipper then Chris Jericho came in put tony in a front face lock while the sheik was snorting coke while standing on his head and then sheik put Chris Jericho in the camel clutch and made him humble
As a young lad, I rooted so hard for Orndorf and Piper during their heat with Hogan. Orndorf was such a great talent!!
I think Luger had a better career after coming back to WCW in 1995 than Vader did in WWF 96-98.
Brian Rose of course he did
Vader had terrible booking in WWE and Shawn threw a fit about him Luger had everything and still couldnt get all the way over
I would agree...Luger was over big time through '97 and '98.
@@CynicallyObnoxious Shawn had an issue with Vader because Vader was too stiff and kept hitting him hard, so Shawn warned him if he hurt him, he'd be fired, which would've happened, so Shawn having that fit basically saved Vader's job. If he did hurt Vince's start, he would've been fired.
Without a doubt
Rip paul orndorff.....legend
WWF wasted Vader, he was more badass in WCW.
Blame Shawn Michaels for his POWER PLAY... he was just ANOTHER VICTIM of The Kliq's backstage political bullshit
SM is a male bitch!
Problem with Vader had to do with timing and yes they could have made money that year off of Vader just switch Vader with Psycho Sid meaning at Summerslam Shawn brats Sid then one month latter Vader beats Shawn for the title a month later beats Bret Hart successfully defend against Bret Hart now we do fancy booking cause Razor and Diesel are leaving at beginning of year so at the Rumble Vader beats Razor then At in your house Vader beats diesel so Vader is Probibly hot by mania and he can either drop it to taker like Sid or HBK it would have also had made Kane hot because he wluld have beaten Vader coming in the following year
Apparently not an old hurt man whipped that ass
Leon was stinky dangerous fat slob
There is no way anyone in retrospect thinks Vader did more for WWE than Luger did for WCW. That's an insane take Conrad.
Yeah that’s dumb
The way Conrad says it almost sounds like who was perceived to have gotten the better trade at the time it happened. And at the time it happened it would’ve been a better seen get for WWF. With the way it worked out I don’t think anybody could make a genuine case that Vader did more for WWF than Luger did for WCW. So I think he meant at the time here.
@@Matt-cr4vv that’s fair
Conrad is so horrible, fucks up so many segments trying to be dramatic. Also it fucks up so many segments when he starts with " Meltzer rated this" or "Keller said that". He's horrible as a host. Can't hold a candle to the great Brian Last
True and it’s not even close 😂
Paul was no pushover and neither was Vader. I'm glad Tony has told the right version on what happened. There's alot of differnt stories out there on what happened.
I worked on the production crew for WCW from 91 to 95 and all the TV tapings and PPVs Center Stage was a very small venue. Our lighting controller and audio mixing console was set up backstage near the dressing rooms. we heard the fight and looked down the hall to see all hell break loose! Tony is correct! he was RIGHT there! As for Vader, He was never cool to any of the production people or WCW staff. On the bright side , I did get to hang with great guys like Dustin Rhodes, Steve Austin, Mick Foley among others! And Ric Flair was as cool as can be! fun times! RIP Leon White! AKA Vader
TY Scott, you should reach out to Conrad with some of your anecdotes. I'd love to hear them!
Luger was WCW'S top baby face against the NWO and a WCW champ. What did Vader do in WWF? How was this a better deal for WWF?
Agreed
WWF loves to bury WCW top talent.
@@BlackAdder1970 Exactly, Scott Steiner, Booker T., Kevin Nash, GOLDBERG and STING, they were all buried by 1 man and that is Triple H
If you think Luger was in any way better than Vader you're silly
Vader came in strong in the beginning of his WWF run. He was great in the 96 Royal Rumble and he put Monsoon in the hospital - which was a big deal at the time as no one had ever touched Gorilla prior or since. Vader had massive heat for that. The rest of his career wasn't great but early on, he was a monster heel. I swear, people seem to forget how much heat Vader had for putting Monsoon in the hospital. People today make it seem as if Vader came in with 0 heat and was buried from the start when that simply isn't true.
Jesus, who was in WCW during this time that DIDN'T see this fight?
Hehe! Not only that but everyone who was interviewed about this unanimously sided with Orndorff and agreed that he beat up Vader that day. I guess Vader wasn't well liked during that time period. The only one who tells a different account or ending to the story, I should say, is Vader.
A very young John Cena... but nobody could see him too
The ring truck driver, the camera man, the hot dog vendor, the popcorn guy, the ticket taker
WWF Champion Diesel allegedly saw the fight.
Kevin Nash
Schiavone doesn't strike me as a bullshitter .. Orndorff was a tough street fighter from Tampa.. I'm from Tampa, and Paul is a little older than me. I can tell you there was a lot of street tough white boys in Tampa back in the 70's and 80's who would fight for money (fight club style) … Orndorff made a name for himself doing that. He was a tough, strong dude with super quick hands. Vader was big and strong, but if Paul got him on the ground, it was over....
Tony is DEFINITELY not a bullshitter. If you listen to his podcast he always lets everyone know when he really doesn’t know something or is unsure.
Hulk Hogan has said this in pulbic that Paul Orndorff was a street brawler from Tampa and Brandon . I believe this 100%
Have you hears vaders side of the story?
According to vader paul did hit him but vader slapped or punched him the interview is on RUclips
Lorenzo action gaming I’ve seen that, but EVERY other witness says otherwise.
I’m a Vader fan, but I’ve heard about 10 different accounts of this story and they’re all pretty similar to this, saying Orndorff kicked his ass.
Vader let him, then felt ashamed and called orndorff to come out of his dressing room, haku told vader that's enough, haku himself said vader would have severely hurt orndorf if vader wanted
@tonymctony4551 vader let him? Why would you let someone field goal you in a locker room full of wrestlers.
@@tonymctony4551 if they didn't seperated them when paul was stomping vader he would have smashed vader skull I don't care what happened next vader got his ass saved when they first seperated them
Personally I am most inclined to believe Tony Shiavone's recollection of the events. He seems to be one of the most likely people to have actually been right there when it happened that doesn't have a bias concerning the outcome. Also, weirdly, his story is different enough from everyone else's that I find it more believable. A lot of the other stories feel to me like they are just repeating what they heard from someone else while saying "I was there" because maybe they were in the same building or worked at WCW and heard about it shortly after. My guess is that there's no more than 4-5 people alive who know what really happened and 90% of those people are more interested in jobbing someone out or getting someone else over than just telling the truth.
Yep. Tony is a straight-shooter. He was also never a drinker or druggie, so his memory is good. It is telling that Bischoff trusted Tony's version of events.
Schiavone's version lines up with Orndorff's...but there's so many different retellings that it's hard to say. As a fan Orndorff, I'd like for his story to be true that he kicked Vader's ass with at 46 and a bad arm. Too bad they didn't do Hogan and Orndorff on the first Nitro. That would have been a great match. I love Orndorff's late-95 run. Him getting the new theme and coming out with a mirror fit so well, plus they were booking him wrong. It's too bad he had to retire.
No matter how much you insist on how it was ridiculous of a 46 year "old man" to whip a 450 pound monster.. The truth is that there were very few 26 year olds out there who could take on Paul in a real actual fight and don't come out crying for their mommas..
Vader was 40 at that time so he wasn't exactly a youngster either.
Tony is one of the few if only legit sincere person in this business. Tells it like it is. Remember when he arrived at TNA? Ripped Mike T.
Mike tenny is awesome. He did sound a bit bored towards the end of his announcing run in tna tho. But I'd take tennay and don west over jr and taz in aew anyday.
@@Kshep84 I'd take Tenay and Zbysco over JR and the king in the middle of the Monday Night war...
Saw Orndorff at my HS in the early 80s with Andre and others. Paul was in the hallway before the event bouncing a pinkie ball. No one wanted to go over to him and ask for an autograph or just say hi as he looked like he wanted to rip someone's head off
Maybe at the time you could look at this roundabout "trade" and say that WWF got the better side by getting Vader. After the fact though, I don't know how anyone can argue that WCW got the better end with Luger. Vader had one big push when he first joined WWF, then had flamed out in less than a year and floundered for a bit further. Luger was a staple of the upper mid-card and had plenty of stints in the main event scene for 4+ years. I'd rather have Vader in a vacuum, but Luger's run in WCW was vastly superior to Vader's WWF run.
Luger going to WCW was the better "trade" than Vader going to the then WWF in my opinion especially if you look back bc Luger was with WCW til the end and Vader didn't last too long in WWF.
“He got his ass kicked that day. Paul Orndoff beat the shit out of him that day. And it’s a moment I’ll never forget.” HAHAH awesome
ALL the witnesses to this fight were also spectators in Hershey, Pa. when Wilt scored !00 !
WILT IS THE G.O.A.T.
LMAO
Lol
I was there and I didn't see any of them😊
I've heard Vader's side and I believe him. Orndorff's side just sounds too sugar coated to be believable.
Believe what you want but the bully Vader got. His ass kicked that day buy. Mr b a d ass himself paul. Orndorff
Vader was loud, in pain and a pain in the ass to deal with. Orndorff has anger management issues. He also bit off a part of Tony Atlas' ear. Combine the two and you get a bad situation.
yeah and Tony Atlas cradled Orndorf and could have destroyed orndorff from there
@@swmita you were there?
@@harrykadaras9459 I wasn't there in a lot of places, like the revolutionary war but I kind know what happened slick. That said this is already an old subject but I heard enough from a few sides and you could pretty much use logic at some point genius
@@swmita you'd make a wonderful judge wouldn't you, "genius"
@@swmita and for the record, genius, Jim said he too pain medication only for pain, not recreational...genius
I find it funny that everyone that says they were right there has told this story 8 different ways with 8 different endings. Then you here this crap and it's even worse. People say Ondroff had boots one, he had shower shoes on, Paul beat him up. Find the Meng interview on this and Meng will tell you that Vader was about to kill Orndorff and he had to stop it. He would also tell you the same thing Vader told everyone 2 years ago that Orndorff got knocked out and he actually let Orndorff hit him. Vader is the man that had his eye popped out of the socket while said socket was completely shattered and still wrestled another 8 minutes with Stan Fucking Hansen.
DraftGuru77 Twitter I agree, I think a lot of these wrestlers are full of crap, Orndorff didn't win, Vader story seems the most legit
for the record, i'm going with Meng's version...just cause.
DraftGuru77 Twitter Bullshit. EVERY video on here from witnesses says Orndorff kicked his ass. Of course Vader doesn't admit it. I wouldn't either.
Paul won. Meng is a work. He only took advantage of drunks in bars. Vader went to the grave having been made Paul and Shawn's bitch.
Way more people have confirmed that Paul beat the shit out of Vader, but you'll never believe the people who were actually there. You're a Vader groupie, just like several others who've commented here. ANYONE with common sense knows that a skilled wrestler can stretch a fat a$$ former football player ANY DAY of the week! Contrary to popular belief, bullies do get fucked up, on occasions. Vader was a WELL KNOWN bully, in the pro wrestling business. He finally fucked with the wrong guy, and got put in his place. Being 400+ LBS does not automatically give someone fighting skills. People seem to think Vader, who was made to look unstoppable in the ring (only with the assistance of the wrestlers who sold his moves), was Leon White's true persona. But outside of the ring, in a real fight, where no one's selling your moves, BIG VAN VADER got dropped & curb stomped by a wrestling AGENT! We're not talking about Orndorff in his prime, we're talking about a man with 1 good arm, wearing FLIP-FLOPS, kicking the ass of a man who thought he actually was the character he portrayed in the ring. Paul Orndorff - 1, Leon White - 0...but feel free to let your imagination run wild with whatever story keeps you in your comfort zone.
I listened to B. Brian Blair once tell a story about Orndorff beating the shit out of 7 cops; 4 of which he sent to the hospital. B. Brian Blair also says that Paul and Haku are two of the toughest bad asses in the business and you wouldn't want to fuck with either of them.
Rick Rude was another
Dan Spivey was no wallflower either. Ask Adrian Adonis.
Luger was the way better trade off. Minimal pay longevity as main event talent.
Minimal pay my ass 😂
Vader became a face around that time, and at the time Hogan rarely fought other faces. Yeah yeah yeah, he lost to Warrior at WM6. But it was still very rare that he fought other faces.
Why did some people swear Orndorff was wearing flip flops, Schiavone says no. WTF.
Orndorff was sick an older, Vader was huge and strong. Reality says Vader let him have it and didn’t want to hurt a sick, weak person in management.
Vader was just fat in hindsight......I be looking at him and he's not big
Everyone else says he was wearing shower shoes, including Sullivan.
@KC Nash wasn't even in WCW at this time. This was 95. Nash didnt go to WCW until 96. He was just repeating what he heard and acted like he was there.
@@justinmartin1831 I did not realize this happened in 1995 but even prior to realizing that when I read your comment I felt like Kevin was lying about being there and most likely just repeating someone else's story. Anything to get over I guess... lol. But thanks for pointing that out.
Im actually inclined to believe Tony Schiavone because he is one of the only people who said Paul was not wearing shower shoes. Too many people, like Nash, who could not or likely were not there have said he was wearing flip flops and that leads me to believe they are just repeating what they've heard. Half of them are probably watching the same videos we are to get the story lol.
Man I'm sure you've been in some fights...I damn sure have, I've got a black eye right now lol. Anyways do you ever remember the specific type of shoes you were wearing in a fight 10+ years ago? I definitely don't, and I don't remember my opponents either. The shower shoe thing to me is more likely one person told the story and everyone else just repeated that story.
Vader said he wasn't. This story is an absolute clusterfuck with everyone having a different story.
Jim Duggan said that Vader threw the first punch, causing Orndorff to spill his coffee. Duggan also said that if Orndorff had not been wearing shower shoes, that he would have beaten Vader much worse than he actually did. So there are conflicting accounts about the Vader vs. Ordorff backstage brawl. Both of these guys rubbed many other performers the wrong way.
I miss Tony. When I was a kid and we'd be playing with the action figures and we'd always commentate the toys and and for some reason I'd always be Tony and my friend would be Jr. Idk why but when we'd call the shots we were always those 2
Unfortunately half my toys are dead though. Bam bam Benoit hennig savage bulldog n others
Did you completely ignore the action and talk about Hogan and Sting the whole time?
Awesome me too 👍
The bigger question is what kind of man looks at another man's shoes? Unless he's wearing pink fluffy slippers or something, nobody would really notice.
“And then Orndorff allegedly knocks Vader out with a single punch from his bad arm.” Damn! There goes the monster image there Leon! 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Mick Foley said Orndorff worked out with his bad arm until it was actually stronger than his good arm. I think he said this in Have a Nice Day.
WWF would have gotten the better of the "trade" had Vader been used appropriately.
He was at the start then the real prima donna of the 90's Shawn threw a tantrum
CynicallyObnoxious yup, classic Shawn Burying someone out of fear that they take money from him.
Shawn’s a piece of shit
@@CynicallyObnoxious What's with this crap about Shawn Michael's . This is about Vader and Paul this has nothing to do with Shawn Michael's
RIP Vader
I call bull shit on this interview
God what a beast, Orndorff beating the bad ass that’s 100 pound heavier then him with one good arm. RIP Orndorff.
Theres 10 different versions of this. Im sure this account is pretty accurate; not sure why Schiavone would need to lie.
Schiavone & Orndorff's accounts are accurate, everyone else's accounts of this story is hearsay
I think the moral of the story is. When you're in that 250+ pound bracket. It doesn't matter if you're 50 or more pounds heavier. A 250 pound dude who knows how to punch can put you down. Tyson was maybe 200 when he was champion in the 80's.
Tyson was around 220lbs and mostly fought fighters the same. Weight as him in the 80s.
Orndorff in interviews has said repeatedly he was wearing flip flops...he complained in an interview with jim cornette that he wished he had his boots on because kicking him in flip flops was hurting his foot...
after listening to various accounts which differ wildly i get the sense that a lot of people disliked vader and are giving a version of what they wanted to happen as opposed to what really happened. and they all omit the continuation of the fight which also makes me suspect they are not being completely honest, as orndorff himself admits he caught a few shots from vader. it also makes be suspect when orndorff has a great amount of detail about the first altercation but is very vague and quiet about the second altercation. the truth is the fight started up again and everyone seems to be mysteriously silent about that.
I believe Orndorff
@@r0ckstar666 you probably believe in the tooth fairy too.
@@billphilips8522 no Orndorff is a bad azz. Dude can fight and does not mind fighting. When wrestling turns real Orndorff can hold his own and then some.
@@r0ckstar666 yeah, right, and bigfoot exists.
Hulk Orndorff was one of the best feuds ever.
Cracked me up when in the middle of a match Jimmy "the boogie man" valiant yells "Tony schiavato, the boogie man loves you jack"...
Nwa wrestling from the wtbs studios. (1980's)
I wonder if the wrestlers during their (shoot interviews) ever call up each other and go yep the quote unquote work never ends..... some of them I feel like are more honest than not but there are some that these wrestlers just go above and beyond to keep the work going man it's awesome...
Brett, Shawn and Vince do I'm sure
I've been to Center Stage, from what I remember it was a small venue, now that's from out where the fans sat, cause it was set up like a horse shoe the way the fans sat, with the ring at the bottom of the (pit) as it was called due to the way it was set up as an ampatheater. I don't know how you could not find someone the size of Vader back stage, unless that building was bigger than what us fans saw. But saw many great matches there they would do all the weekly shows right there in one night, doors would open up at 5pm and it was first come first serve to fill the seat's and it would run till 10-10:30pm. The Power Hour, WCW Saturday night, the NWA Main Event, and after each taping they'd change the banners on the sides of the ring to go with the show they were taping next. So you'd see the same group of fans for all the shows. It was great! The late 80's early 90's that was the place to be, for great wrestling with great story lines. I miss those days.
Paul Orndorff was always one of my favorites even in the Mid-south days when him and his brother Terry worked an angle
Vader got that ass stomped. Rip Mr Wonderful.
It's interesting that Vader himself absolutely, vehemently denied that this is what happened. He even swore on his kids' lives that it didn't go down like this. He was very believable in giving his side.
wish i could like this twice so it could have been 1000
Out of all 3 men in this story, Vader, Lugar & Orndoff, Orndoff should've got the contract!
So Orndorff beat up Vader with a withered arm and all?
“Get him off of me!!!” - Vader
And Paul was just stomping the fuck out of him.
Hahahahahahahah !!!!
I don’t care if this is exactly how it happened or not, this is absolutely hilarious. I can just imagine everything Schiavone is saying and I can’t stop laughing. Just the way he tells it, it doesn’t even have to be 100% true. Awesome story.
Think so
Vader wasn't shy about trying to tear the head off every one he wrestled
I heard Paul had a 115 degree fever when he knocked out Vader .
And had a hangnail
There seemed to be about a thousand people who watched Orndorff vs Vader backstage.
Hey Vader, Orndorff 3:16 says I just kicked your ass. 😂😂
The only consistencies with all the eye witness accounts I've heard of the Vader and Orndorf fight is that Orndoff won and that he was stomping the shit out of Vader's head. That's it. Everything else is fuzzy. And also one thing is for certain, I haven't heard a single account that lines up with what Vader said happened himself. So I call bullshit on his story. He clearly got his ass kicked.
yea and what would have happened if Vader really fought back back then when Pauls arm was withered and crippled?
Paul won only because Vader didn't fight back you stupid fuck!
@@tomtanaka841 You act like you were there fucking mark.
Who would ever say the WWF got the better of that? Vader was a bigger name, but they did nothing with him. Luger had the best run of his career after that.
Everyone would DEFINITELY not disagree with the statement that WCW got the better of the trade. WWE should have got the better of the year, Vader was a bigger draw. However, when you look at both of their careers over the next few years it's clear Lex Luger had a longer and better run with how he was used/pushed. Shit Vader was steadily injured in the WWE.
Vader was a serial liar. Tubby lug lied about playing in the Super Bowl for the Rams versus the Steelers. Vader never played a single regular-season or post-season game for any NFL team.
How do you know that?🤔
@@chadk890 you dont
There's 2 accounts where Vader got the better of Paul after getting up from the initial ass whoopin. Vader himself & Buff Bagwell... For whatever that's worth lol.
WCW got the better end of that trade and I'm a fan and I was watching back then
Now they are both gone. RIP
Vader's got fuck up. Plain and simple. Vader is embarrassed he's lying. Shit happens. You win some you lose some.
No way Vader was doing a shooting star press lmao! He probably meant the moonsault
some flying celestial body.
Vader did a Phoenix Splash and Inverted 450 in Japan. Meltzer reported it and gave it 5 stars. It must be true!!!
Gutsault
Don't mistake losing a fight to Vader not being a Pure Atletic Man.
Orndorff had a ham sandwich and Vader bit orndorffs hand.
Every body said orndorff had flip flops on an I believe them cuz if you stomp somebody's head into the ground with boots on you would kill them as for Vader leaving an lex coming to wcw well Vader flop in wwe an luger had some awesome runs in wcw with savage sting an the Wolfe pack an he came dirt cheap so there you go wcw won on that trade
Iron Sheik and Shockmaster were also there.
I don't think the skull has a preference as to what kind of shoe is caving it in. Force is force. The only thing the boot offers is a better chance at not fucking your own foot up too
Adam, when you dont have to worry about fucking up your foot, you can hit something a lot harder. That's why wearing a boot makes a huge difference
I buy that he was wearing flip flops or something and wouldn't blame Tony if he just kind of missed that detail in the heat of the moment. Tony's version of it sounds like the best "big picture" objective view of the incident. The best summary but not necessarily clear on the finer details. Either way, I completely believe Tony's being as honest as his memory allows.
No flip flops
Mr Wonderful is tough to beat with his Shower shoes on
I believe everyone's hatred of Vader and their stories changing....Has me to believe Vader's story! Not sayin Vader was a bad ass... But Paul's hand was banged up and he wasn't the same Mr Wonderful weight and health wise
So a dozen guys say Vader got his head kicked in and you don't believe it? If they're all lying cos they hate Vader then doesn't that tell its own story about what a dick Vader was?
Shower shoes makes it sound more humorous so that's my head canon.
Vader had an incident in Iraq also. Vince had to buy him out of jail.
*Kuwait
💛 I would have Loved to see..💙
Tony needs to write a biography
I agree with Tony. Luger in WCW is better than Vader in WWF. Luger was more comfortable, fit better and was part of the main event scene til WCW folded. Luger received one of the few clean wins over Hogan in Aug '97. Vader in WWF should've been a bigger deal, but politics neutered him in the WWF. Find anything me a clip of Luger doing something worse in WCW than when Vader says "I'm a big fat piece of shit" and I'll consider rethinking Vader's value in WWF.
Conrad has no clue about anything... 😂mark
There are numerous versions of this story, and most are close to this. Except Vader’s version.
I know memory isn't perfect, not mine or anyone else's. However, typically when people are recalling events in other industries if you get a few people who were legitimately present for the event you can get a pretty damn good idea of what happened, but in there wrestling business? Shit all of WWE/WCW/ECW/TNA/AEW/AWA/OVW/NXT and New Japan could have seen in first hand and the shit could be on video and still no two stories will match up and most will be completely different. Pisses me off lol. There's almost nothing about this story that is clear, Vader won, Paul won, flip flops, boots, late, not late, Vader fired over it, Vader not fired over it, etc, etc. The only God damn thing that is for sure is that Vader hit Paul first.
Sullivan and many others said orndorf was in shower shoes. I don’t believe Tonya recollection because many more people say shower shoes than not.
I'd say WCW gained with Lex Luger, as opposed to WWF gaining with Vader. Lex Luger defeated Hulk Hogan by submission for the Big Gold Belt, and he lasted the whole Monday Night Wars in WCW (1995-2001); meanwhile Vader didn't win any championships in WWF, seemed weaker and only lasted 2 years, 1996-1998. WCW got the better deal, imo.
RIP Mr. Wonderful
Can Conrad find 5 adults who think the WWF got the better of that trade? Not that Vader was lacking but he never got close to being the guy he was in WCW while Luger making the jump was the shot in the arm Nitro needed as a brand new wrestling show.
By the second Nitro, they had beaten Paul down too much as a singles for anyone to be interested in him vs Hogan.
They should have planned him as Hogan's first foe after he beat Flair in 95. Paul still had a lot left and his injury wasn't as advanced. That would make a better Starrcade 95 main event than what they had with Beefcake.
RIP LEON " VADER" WHITE & PAUL " MR. WONDERFUL" ORNDORFF. LEGENDS OF THE SQUARED CIRCLE
This had more ads than it merited
Lex Luger after returning to WCW was one of their top guys for years......Vader is considered a wwf bust
Orndorff got the better of Vader yes but to say he knocked him out? I don’t know. Vader has spent most of his career working stiff matches where guys are just blasting each other as hard as possible. He’s used to taking a pounding.
Orndorff kicked everybody's ass.... dangerous man....Ventura quote 1985
Idk man. Vader may have been the better talent but considering the milage the two companies got out of the two guys I would argue wcw got the better deal with luger. He was around for pretty much that entire time while vaders WWF run at that time was highly forgettable.
lol @ Conrad saying Vader tried a shooting star press. it was a MOONSAULT Conrad... a MOONSAULT
He doesn't know shit
This is also a great example of carney unprofessional wrestling is. You have a roster that you don't transport but you expect to travel almost daily & then can't get them to an exact spot? Maybe if you had the proper arrangements this wouldn't happen. Do the Yankees ever have a problem getting a player to interview before a game or during training?
How can anyone listen to Conrad?
There were two fights a few minutes apart. The second fight they pulled Vader off of him.
Shower shoes lol
I just watched a Kevin Nash interview where he called them "99 cent" shower shoes
Bunny Shoes
If you use gym showers, you get why should wear them. Lot of nasty stuff on those wet, bacteria-ridden tile floors.
he had his boots on so they hire the guy to collect people for interviews wearing boots ! yea
I've been to prison... Shower shoes don't mean shit
Kevin Nash said he was there too lol
Nash is a pathological liar.
Probably lol
Say what you want ... this announcer Toni shamanic seems more honest than most .... and orndorff ... I wouldn’t mess with him ...
vader kicked his ass orndorff was sick had a crippled arm he couldn’t hurt vader
None of this is true I'll set the record straight I happen to be back in stage cleaning a bathroom when the fight broke out and Bruce Lee was a special guest referee and he was in the dressing room when it broke out and he tried to separate them and then Vader swung at Bruce and Paul grabbed him from behind so Bruce head-butted Orndoroff and broke loose and took both of them out with a 6-in punch
Seems that they had this fight when everybody of the wcw was watching.
Hell Kevin Nash was still in the WWF at this time so it seems like everyone from every large wrestling company was in the hallway they fought in 30 years ago!
Vader was not going to win the title on the second Nitro. Hogan never would have gone for that. Besides, they had turned Vader babyface right before he left. He was going to team with Hogan, Savage and Sting against the Dungeon of Doom at Fall Brawl in the WarGames match. Luger took his place.
What happen to the shower shoes everyone else said he had shower shoes on
Y’all get this story right Paul had been in the bathtub with his scuba Steve gear Vader came in called Paul a sissy Paul got out karate kicked him with his flipper then Chris Jericho came in put tony in a front face lock while the sheik was snorting coke while standing on his head and then sheik put Chris Jericho in the camel clutch and made him humble
They went at it twice Vader for killing Paul and was pull off of Paul the 2nd time. Tell the whole story if you were there!
RIP Leon