Just as a side note for anyone using one of these mini mills no matter the paint or markings, If you replace your control board and you find your machine still doesn't work and you've checked your motor brushes and they are fine, I have another place for you to check on your motor. On my machine (Micro Mark) the motor wires where they connect to the brush terminals, one of them had come loose. they use some type of washer made of a spring that looks like it was bent into a loop that expands over the terminal for the brushes. it looks as though the spring had overheated and some of the coils straightened out causing it to lose contact with the brush terminal. I simply crushed the lose coils back together and put a bead of solder on it to hold it together and snapped it back over the terminal, and presto! it worked. If you remove the dust cap off the top of your motor you will be able to see the springs I'm talking about. Again just another place to look if your having troubles with your machine.
Very welEasy to understand and to the point. Best Mini Mill Video I have seen yet. Nice to see someone not just promoting the crap out of products. It tends to take away from the learning. If you have more video's I will be sure to watch. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Thanks for this, well done! I have not had this issue with my Harbor Freight mill. But I did blow out the drive electronics and repaired the board by replacing a few power diodes. I'll bookmark your link to the replacement board.
Very good video, thank you. I've got an older HF mill (same type) that I don't want to throw away so I'll do the upgrade you've done. Thank you again for the information and detailed parts list.
Thanks for this video. I just got the same exact mill and am experiencing the same issue as you. I have not changed the settings on the board and it blows fuses as soon as I try to drill anything. Very frustrating! I just ordered a motor controller and I will see if that makes this thing more useful. This is 3 years later from when you had your issues and I cannot believe that LMS is using the same CRAP controller, with the same problems. If the quality issues are so bad on the controller, I think I am going to look at the brush connections also. All these off shore companies have their own quality issues. It's hit or miss!
WOW ! thanks for making this video ! I've wanted to get a mini mill for a year now and I've been doing my research on the best one I could buy and so far Little Machine Shop mills looked like the one till I see all the electronics problems yours has. For all the money I was about to spend on this mini mill it looks like I'll keep on looking. I want a machine that will run, not one that I would have to rewire the whole system and design a new control box. Lol.. Too bad Little machine shop..
I also don't think it's LMS that provides the motor controller - it's almost certainly the factory so, unfortunately, I'm not sure other vendors will be any better.
I was about to buy one of these machines for gun smithing but after seeing what you had to do and the cost I'm gonna pass on it. thanks for your videos keep them coming.
It's definitely not been a "take it out of the box and use it" experience, and I feel it still needs a few more things to be really useful (like a DRO and an X power feed). Problem is if you only have space for an X2, there aren't many other options. My recommendation would be to first see if you can find a used one that someone has done some of the upgrades and worked out the bugs (plus you might get some tooling). Otherwise, for the mill plus tools, parts, etc to make it very usable, I'd budget about $3k and probably 1-2 days of set up time before you can really start using it functionally.
True, it has been a problem a couple times. I'll likely move it to higher on the column at some point, probably when I change the bearings. I never contacted LMS because I figured I'd only get back the same type of drive. This new one will let me use a bigger motor when I get around to upgrading.
if its the brushed dc motor it cant handle loads at lower rpm. which is why it used a gear drive. i would recommend upgrading to an ac brushless motor since you put in the pully drive. it should be able to handle lower rpms with higher loads
This is a class 1 device. So if it's soldered and turns on it's considered good. I work in aerospace and I had to completely redo this board so I went all out.
Is there any kind of motor that would fit in the factory location minus some modification that would increase power? I'd love to find something to just drop in but I don't think that's how they go. I got the Eastwood mill coming so we'll see. I just wish they gave me the option to ship it overnight or whatevers faster.
LMS offers a hi-torque version, so there must be a vendor for that motor - basically it's a DC motor, but likely requires a better motor controller, too. I've heard that a treadmill motor works very well, which is what my plan is, I just haven't found the time to do the upgrade.
Wow, dude… You went waaaay farther than I did with my WEN version of this POS. I’ve replaced two boards and one motor ( under warranty) and it still has the same issues. Btw- on the factory board, that big fat resistor (R17) gets smoking hot, just by being plugged in, not to mention when the power switch is on.. Mine is all crated back up again and going back to Amazon for a full refund. I have a Little Machine Shop 6550 on the way. Enough is enough.
Hi Yoshimoshi, Great videos! I thought I made a decision as a beginner from all the mills I have reviewed and narrowed it down to this one. but after watching all your videos I'm not so sure. I am by trade a woodworker, so I have quite a bit of machining experience, but none with metalworking. So, my question now is, as of April 2021. I have watched other videos, and with all the problems you had to encounter ( especially the IC board, what a mess! ) with this mill and basically rebuild it, was it really worth the money and time you put into it? or you just get a Lemon? 2nd, If I were to spend a little more money, say around $1,000-$1,300 for a bench-top mill, not including all the end mills, collets, etc. could you give me some advice? and possible model numbers? what would be the best bang for the buck? Also, If you have advice on the next level of a machine above that price point I would greatly appreciate some input on that also. Thank you
Well they pretty much all come from the same factory, just with slight variations. The older motor controllers seem better. If I were to do it again, I'd start by looking for a used one and short of that probably going with the LMS high-torque option, even though my experience with LMS hasn't been stellar. At the base level I think I'd want the LMS high torque because it has a larger bed than most and a better motor. I've already found there isn't enough work volume for projects I want to do and the motor isn't powerful enough for the cuts I'd like to make. Power feed is something I'll be adding - not having it sucks. I'd now consider having a DRO a requirement. Don't bother with the lead screw change I did, but do a DRO instead. A tach is a requirement I'd wait on the belt drive to see if the high-torque version needs it
You know all the variable speed controls, on all mini lathe and mills, never work property. If you love you machine, you can purchase a heavy duty speed controller. I solved my problem buy buying a mill that controls speed by changing belt location on pulleys. Not fancy but dependable, especially when you are working weekends and nights, something breaks and support for your machine won't be open until the next day.
Hi good video. Question. could you just switch out the old motor drive and use the motor drive you used. Just trying to simplify the mod on the mill.....
@@donwoodward2615 I honestly didn't look. i knew I was going to add a tach, better pot and e-stop, so I knew I was going to be making my own enclosure. I've been dealing with automation direct for supplies for years, so that's where I went and just got one for the rating I wanted. Most of them have manuals with dimensions, you'll just have to hunt around.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Thanks for that info. As there are so many of these mini mills out there, and the electrical side is bad. it would be nice just to replace the motor board where is. I personal do not have the electrical skill set you have, As you do. Do you think you could do a video on a simple solution to the motor problem that many of these mill will have. I think many engineers would find it useful. Sorry electrical stuff not my field of skill. I'm also in 240v land as many are. Cheers.
@@donwoodward2615 I'll see if I can find a smaller controller, but yes, the ones that come in these are poor quality, and seem to be getting worse over time.
I thought all this was to improve spindle torque! So did it and why didn't you show it? The pulley upgrade does reduce spindle torque but not to what you had. Thanks
With the original motor control, which was just absolute garbage, I could stop the spindle with my hand. Almost anything would have been an improvement in torque. The upgraded controller made it a very usable machine. It's got no problem making passes with a 38mm face mill on steel or cast iron now.
Seems like the little machine shop has a BIG amount of problems ! So in your opinion would it be better just to buy a better mill meaning higher quality...? I seen all the upgrades you’ve done and you did one hell of a good job ! But I redone want to go through all that if at all possible... what do you think? Would you buy it over again in hindsight?
But generally this one does most of what I need it to do. I likely would get the high-torque motor upgrade if I were to do it again, but given the limited space I have, and the budget I set, yeah, I'd probably do it again.
If you have access to one, a place to put it, a way to get it from where it is to where you want it, and the power it requires, then absolutely, go that route! They are fantastic machines on a whole different level than something like a mini mill.
First things first... I get you're frustrated, and that things didn't just work out of the box for you. You went for the cheap option, so you're dealing with the cheap option issues. 1) The solder bridge you pointed out will have no effect on the circuit, as the bridge is only in contact with pads and components that are on the same trace anyways. 2) The board appears to have been either hand pasted, or hand soldered, in both cases, components will tend to drift away from the pixel perfect placement of a pick-n-place machine. (I'm guessing hand soldered as there are quite a few large through-hole devices on the board) 3) You mentioned the drive would not work until you a)moved wires and b) attached a ground clamp.. a) if moving wires causes intermittent issues, then you should check the wires for damage, and ensure both ends of the wires are properly connected b) if the machine has no ground, how do you expect it to function? 4) Don't just rely on some random "service bulletin" produced by someone on a forums, if the manufacturer didn't makes the service bullitin, it's probably not worth paying that much attention to it. The "proper" method is to test for the condition, then fix it. not just blindly attempt to fix an issue you haven't tested for properly. Even though the symptoms may "seem" to be the same, they may not be. In this case, testing the potentiometer's resistance, against a known working machine would have been much more helpful, as you can properly adjust to the correct setting. The service bulletin you're referring to was the one produced by "littlemachineshop" who don't actually manufacture these parts, but buys and sells them. and the bulletin does not include a circuit diagram / schematic, nor does it denote the correct range of resistance for the potentiometers. I would also like to point out several other possibilities for the issue you're having with the drive "overloading" 1) The diode(s) that protect the mosfets from coil back emf have failed or are failing to completely protect the fets 2) The mosfets themselves are failing 3) Bad decoupling capacitor / run capacitor for the motor (can cause current draw spikes when under load) 4) worn brushes / bad brush commutator connections These are but a FEW of the problems that could cause your issue. It really does help knowing the circuit, it's function, and how it's supposed operate under load. Without this, you';re just blindly guessing at the issue, and shotgun approach of replacing everything is more expensive (the antithesis of buying the cheaper option to begin with)
Sure I won‘t try this at home because that mod will not really solve the problem and is a waste of time and money. Replace this motor by a three phase AC motor and drive it with an inverter. You tried to hide your fail by not showing the poor result, but you should have been honest to us.
I've been using as it is since I made the modification, so I'm not sure how you think it's a failure or a poor result. Before I couldn't mill anything, now it works as well as the small motor can handle. I have a larger AC motor, but won't be putting it in. If I upgrade the motor, I'll use a DC motor, which would provide better torque across different speeds. Let us know when you've got your video up on the AC motor replacement.
Just as a side note for anyone using one of these mini mills no matter the paint or markings, If you replace your control board and you find your machine still doesn't work and you've checked your motor brushes and they are fine, I have another place for you to check on your motor.
On my machine (Micro Mark) the motor wires where they connect to the brush terminals, one of them had come loose. they use some type of washer made of a spring that looks like it was bent into a loop that expands over the terminal for the brushes. it looks as though the spring had overheated and some of the coils straightened out causing it to lose contact with the brush terminal.
I simply crushed the lose coils back together and put a bead of solder on it to hold it together and snapped it back over the terminal, and presto! it worked.
If you remove the dust cap off the top of your motor you will be able to see the springs I'm talking about.
Again just another place to look if your having troubles with your machine.
Very welEasy to understand and to the point. Best Mini Mill Video I have seen yet. Nice to see someone not just promoting the crap out of products. It tends to take away from the learning. If you have more video's I will be sure to watch. Thanks for taking the time to do this.
Thanks for this, well done! I have not had this issue with my Harbor Freight mill. But I did blow out the drive electronics and repaired the board by replacing a few power diodes. I'll bookmark your link to the replacement board.
Very good video, thank you. I've got an older HF mill (same type) that I don't want to throw away so I'll do the upgrade you've done. Thank you again for the information and detailed parts list.
Thanks for this video. I just got the same exact mill and am experiencing the same issue as you. I have not changed the settings on the board and it blows fuses as soon as I try to drill anything. Very frustrating! I just ordered a motor controller and I will see if that makes this thing more useful. This is 3 years later from when you had your issues and I cannot believe that LMS is using the same CRAP controller, with the same problems. If the quality issues are so bad on the controller, I think I am going to look at the brush connections also. All these off shore companies have their own quality issues. It's hit or miss!
WOW ! thanks for making this video ! I've wanted to get a mini mill for a year now and I've been doing my research on the best one I could buy and so far Little Machine Shop mills looked like the one till I see all the electronics problems yours has.
For all the money I was about to spend on this mini mill it looks like I'll keep on looking. I want a machine that will run, not one that I would have to rewire the whole system and design a new control box. Lol..
Too bad Little machine shop..
It's possible the control board on the high-torque motor is better, but I'd definitely not get this one again.
I also don't think it's LMS that provides the motor controller - it's almost certainly the factory so, unfortunately, I'm not sure other vendors will be any better.
You have a lot of patience, nice work
You can't tell me what to do! If I wasn't so lazy, I'd go try that right now!
I have the exactly same problem with my mini mill. I will do the upgrade. Thank you very much for the video. I am a bit confuse about the magnet.
I was about to buy one of these machines for gun smithing but after seeing what you had to do and the cost I'm gonna pass on it. thanks for your videos keep them coming.
It's definitely not been a "take it out of the box and use it" experience, and I feel it still needs a few more things to be really useful (like a DRO and an X power feed). Problem is if you only have space for an X2, there aren't many other options. My recommendation would be to first see if you can find a used one that someone has done some of the upgrades and worked out the bugs (plus you might get some tooling). Otherwise, for the mill plus tools, parts, etc to make it very usable, I'd budget about $3k and probably 1-2 days of set up time before you can really start using it functionally.
I would have just returned the mill to the suppliers
Nice job and explanation
It seems like your new control box could get in the way depending on what you are milling since it hangs down. LMS no help?
True, it has been a problem a couple times. I'll likely move it to higher on the column at some point, probably when I change the bearings. I never contacted LMS because I figured I'd only get back the same type of drive. This new one will let me use a bigger motor when I get around to upgrading.
if its the brushed dc motor it cant handle loads at lower rpm. which is why it used a gear drive. i would recommend upgrading to an ac brushless motor since you put in the pully drive. it should be able to handle lower rpms with higher loads
This is a class 1 device. So if it's soldered and turns on it's considered good.
I work in aerospace and I had to completely redo this board so I went all out.
Is there any kind of motor that would fit in the factory location minus some modification that would increase power? I'd love to find something to just drop in but I don't think that's how they go. I got the Eastwood mill coming so we'll see. I just wish they gave me the option to ship it overnight or whatevers faster.
LMS offers a hi-torque version, so there must be a vendor for that motor - basically it's a DC motor, but likely requires a better motor controller, too. I've heard that a treadmill motor works very well, which is what my plan is, I just haven't found the time to do the upgrade.
Wow, dude…
You went waaaay farther than I did with my WEN version of this POS.
I’ve replaced two boards and one motor ( under warranty) and it still has the same issues. Btw- on the factory board, that big fat resistor (R17) gets smoking hot, just by being plugged in, not to mention when the power switch is on..
Mine is all crated back up again and going back to Amazon for a full refund.
I have a Little Machine Shop 6550 on the way. Enough is enough.
I definitely should have spent the extra for the high torque version.
Really nice work. I wonder what the missing magnet is stuck to?
No idea. I still haven't run across it
Hi Yoshimoshi, Great videos! I thought I made a decision as a beginner from all the mills I have reviewed and narrowed it down to this one. but after watching all your videos I'm not so sure. I am by trade a woodworker, so I have quite a bit of machining experience, but none with metalworking. So, my question now is, as of April 2021.
I have watched other videos, and with all the problems you had to encounter ( especially the IC board, what a mess! ) with this mill and basically rebuild it, was it really worth the money and time you put into it? or you just get a Lemon?
2nd, If I were to spend a little more money, say around $1,000-$1,300 for a bench-top mill, not including all the end mills, collets, etc. could you give me some advice? and possible model numbers? what would be the best bang for the buck? Also,
If you have advice on the next level of a machine above that price point I would greatly appreciate some input on that also.
Thank you
Well they pretty much all come from the same factory, just with slight variations. The older motor controllers seem better. If I were to do it again, I'd start by looking for a used one and short of that probably going with the LMS high-torque option, even though my experience with LMS hasn't been stellar.
At the base level I think I'd want the LMS high torque because it has a larger bed than most and a better motor. I've already found there isn't enough work volume for projects I want to do and the motor isn't powerful enough for the cuts I'd like to make.
Power feed is something I'll be adding - not having it sucks.
I'd now consider having a DRO a requirement. Don't bother with the lead screw change I did, but do a DRO instead.
A tach is a requirement
I'd wait on the belt drive to see if the high-torque version needs it
@@YoshimoshiGarage Thank you very much for replying so quickly. I greatly appreciate it. I’m gonna look at the LMS this week. Thanks again
Hi Yoshimoshi. Do you have the wire diagram. Can I have it? I am not a electrical person. I am a bit confusing about wiring. I really appreciated.
I'll try to draw something up for it.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Thanks a lot.
Hi. Anyone have a drawing diagram? Can I have it. I really appreciated. I look at the video. But not sure about wiring.
the led driver is unavailable from amazon
You know all the variable speed controls, on all mini lathe and mills, never work property. If you love you machine, you can purchase a heavy duty speed controller. I solved my problem buy buying a mill that controls speed by changing belt location on pulleys. Not fancy but dependable, especially when you are working weekends and nights, something breaks and support for your machine won't be open until the next day.
do you have wireing diagram ?
Hi good video. Question. could you just switch out the old motor drive and use the motor drive you used. Just trying to simplify the mod on the mill.....
Yes, you can use the existing switch and pot. Only issue is the new controller won't fit in the factory box, so you have to make something to hold it.
@@YoshimoshiGarage OK is there any other smaller motor board available....
@@donwoodward2615 I honestly didn't look. i knew I was going to add a tach, better pot and e-stop, so I knew I was going to be making my own enclosure. I've been dealing with automation direct for supplies for years, so that's where I went and just got one for the rating I wanted. Most of them have manuals with dimensions, you'll just have to hunt around.
@@YoshimoshiGarage Thanks for that info. As there are so many of these mini mills out there, and the electrical side is bad. it would be nice just to replace the motor board where is. I personal do not have the electrical skill set you have, As you do. Do you think you could do a video on a simple solution to the motor problem that many of these mill will have. I think many engineers would find it useful. Sorry electrical stuff not my field of skill. I'm also in 240v land as many are. Cheers.
@@donwoodward2615 I'll see if I can find a smaller controller, but yes, the ones that come in these are poor quality, and seem to be getting worse over time.
SMASH THAT LIKE BUTTON, FOLKS!!!
LOL.
I thought all this was to improve spindle torque! So did it and why didn't you show it? The pulley upgrade does reduce spindle torque but not to what you had. Thanks
With the original motor control, which was just absolute garbage, I could stop the spindle with my hand. Almost anything would have been an improvement in torque. The upgraded controller made it a very usable machine. It's got no problem making passes with a 38mm face mill on steel or cast iron now.
Looking for the stl file for the board and/or control box . Didn’t see it posted. Thanks
Sorry about that. Just added a link to them in the description
@@YoshimoshiGarage thank you ! Much appreciated
before doing all this you should get rid of the over solder on the board and get the components placed correctly. i would not put power on that board.
Seems like the little machine shop has a BIG amount of problems ! So in your opinion would it be better just to buy a better mill meaning higher quality...? I seen all the upgrades you’ve done and you did one hell of a good job ! But I redone want to go through all that if at all possible... what do you think? Would you buy it over again in hindsight?
If you have the budget and space, buy something a little bigger.
@@YoshimoshiGarage humm... I was thinking maybe a Bridgeport there’s one for sale for 1200 bucks in my area what do you think about those mills?
But generally this one does most of what I need it to do. I likely would get the high-torque motor upgrade if I were to do it again, but given the limited space I have, and the budget I set, yeah, I'd probably do it again.
If you have access to one, a place to put it, a way to get it from where it is to where you want it, and the power it requires, then absolutely, go that route! They are fantastic machines on a whole different level than something like a mini mill.
How close does the hall effect sensor need to be to the magnet?
Not sure how far the field is detectable. On mine it's probably about 1/8 inch gap.
Less then 1/4" typically, but it depend on the magnet strength. The supplied magnet is pretty weak, so consider upgrading.
First things first... I get you're frustrated, and that things didn't just work out of the box for you. You went for the cheap option, so you're dealing with the cheap option issues.
1) The solder bridge you pointed out will have no effect on the circuit, as the bridge is only in contact with pads and components that are on the same trace anyways.
2) The board appears to have been either hand pasted, or hand soldered, in both cases, components will tend to drift away from the pixel perfect placement of a pick-n-place machine. (I'm guessing hand soldered as there are quite a few large through-hole devices on the board)
3) You mentioned the drive would not work until you a)moved wires and b) attached a ground clamp..
a) if moving wires causes intermittent issues, then you should check the wires for damage, and ensure both ends of the wires are properly connected
b) if the machine has no ground, how do you expect it to function?
4) Don't just rely on some random "service bulletin" produced by someone on a forums, if the manufacturer didn't makes the service bullitin, it's probably not worth paying that much attention to it. The "proper" method is to test for the condition, then fix it. not just blindly attempt to fix an issue you haven't tested for properly. Even though the symptoms may "seem" to be the same, they may not be. In this case, testing the potentiometer's resistance, against a known working machine would have been much more helpful, as you can properly adjust to the correct setting. The service bulletin you're referring to was the one produced by "littlemachineshop" who don't actually manufacture these parts, but buys and sells them. and the bulletin does not include a circuit diagram / schematic, nor does it denote the correct range of resistance for the potentiometers.
I would also like to point out several other possibilities for the issue you're having with the drive "overloading"
1) The diode(s) that protect the mosfets from coil back emf have failed or are failing to completely protect the fets
2) The mosfets themselves are failing
3) Bad decoupling capacitor / run capacitor for the motor (can cause current draw spikes when under load)
4) worn brushes / bad brush commutator connections
These are but a FEW of the problems that could cause your issue. It really does help knowing the circuit, it's function, and how it's supposed operate under load. Without this, you';re just blindly guessing at the issue, and shotgun approach of replacing everything is more expensive (the antithesis of buying the cheaper option to begin with)
oh god , any other mill, lathe, drill press , surface grinder, ect would have ripped your arm off doing that
Sure I won‘t try this at home because that mod will not really solve the problem and is a waste of time and money. Replace this motor by a three phase AC motor and drive it with an inverter. You tried to hide your fail by not showing the poor result, but you should have been honest to us.
I've been using as it is since I made the modification, so I'm not sure how you think it's a failure or a poor result. Before I couldn't mill anything, now it works as well as the small motor can handle. I have a larger AC motor, but won't be putting it in. If I upgrade the motor, I'll use a DC motor, which would provide better torque across different speeds. Let us know when you've got your video up on the AC motor replacement.
learned what not to do. little extra money lms 3990
Definitely
Well I guess you lost audio because all you were doing was pointing and nothing else.
Made in. China 😂😂😂😂