@@The_Gravemind I know for a fact a Halo fan isn't coping in byfs comments when that series has been bastardized and cucked beyond belief. Crying Stockholm syndrome while being in the same damn cell is wild.
@@The_Gravemindbrother, i know you're still mad bungie stopped making halo games (i am too, a little) but it was over a decade ago. move on, stop trolling in destiny youtube comment sections and find something better to do with your life. this is just sad man get real
“if you like the lore videos I’ve done the last few months” Excuse me sir, I love all the videos you put out for lore and such. There is no question of “if”😂🤣
I absolutely loved how Bungie wrote Zavala this expansion. That narrative version of the strike was my favorite dialogue in the expansion. How Zavala lashes out on everyone including Cayde and brought up a really good point about him having no say on Zavala and Ikora’s beef for dying on them. It’s been nothing but hard since that event occurred for the Vanguard. And how he delivers that “That’s not enough”. SHEEESH 🔥🔥🔥
@@MorganNull-uj6uu i dont inherently disagree but i know for a lot of other destiny content creators if they end up wanting to expand their content they have to do secondary channels and such bec the primary destiny audience wont engage and itll make the metric performance of the main channel look poor.
They removed it because people were joining mid strike when loading in and missing story beats and it would complete the step if they joined at the boss, so you either A have to load it up manually, B wait for them to fix, or C, do the Nightfall of it if you're able to when that eventually goes live
another part of the discomfort we get in the strike is the disunity of the vanguard in this crucial moment. personally referred to it as the "mom and dad are fighting" arc lol
“Liminal” was the name of the card from the Deck of Whispers representing Arc Light. The eye of a hurricane could be described as liminal, in a sense. || Amid the endless death, one flew--unnatural, all-consuming need……… And in the space between the two, accursed comprehension freed. ||
While I honestly do wish Lance Reddick could have seen the Final Shape after all his years of voicing our Commander, I have to admit, Keith David's more gruff tone really worked to convey the inner conflict of Zavala. It's as if the shift in his character almost necessitated it. Rest in Peace, Lance Reddick. And personally, I remember playing through the campaign back in the day hearing her call Zavala a coward for putting his duties to the people above his personal feelings @31:36 really made me dislike her character. Though, it did make me really enjoy the writing because it kept in line with both her character and his.
I believe they confirmed Keith David at least 6 months in advance if I'm remembering correctly. But kudos to you for avoiding the internet for that long
Liminality is definitely in my top 3 of strikes (granted it may drop to my most hated when it comes to gms but I digress) but the reminder of how things in the pale heart are all from memories made manifest makes me wonder how the witness saw guts of an ahamkara as well. Did it pin on down through sheer force of will and do what it did in the matodoxia lore tabor did it take some and peel awake taken flesh to see what they look like underneath. So many questions maybe it’s something that those 5 remaining dragons not of Riven’s clutch can tell us one day since I can only imagine what a wish dragon would do if it got its claws on an echo
I think The Witness knows what the Ahamkaras' insides look like because it dissected them. I've been interpreting all the sliced up and rebuilt creatures as the Witness trying to create more perfect beings with only the powers of darkness and physics. I also think the weird combo of things actually stems from differing opinions inside The Witness. I think it was a hint all along that The Witness didn't actually have a solid plan other than "freeze it all". The details of the ideal shapes to be frozen into were still different based on the opinions of the Precursors within.
Kind of makes you wonder if the ahamkara sowed the witnesses defeat long ago. Did they cast doubt in some of his followers, or even some of the descendants who wanted to deflect? Was the witness aware of this and angry at them to the point where his memories include their guts on the walls?
I like this style of lore video. Where you repeat voice lines and video clips multiple times. It may seem a bit handhold-y, but to me it's much more comprehensive and assertive that the audience absolutely understands what's going on
I think something about the manifestation of memories is that even just an individual's memories can be extremely messy and incomplete, or just inaccurate altogether.
The cohesion of the concept of liminality and its presentation within the Strike is peak game design. For this reason, it has become my favorite Strike in Destiny.
I love your use of analogies to explain the lore, and the more complex terminology for certain level names, really reflects the lore and deeper narrative/thought, the writers put into how the Final Shape effects the whole cast going forward. I'm looking forward to seeing how Zavala will change going forward, what role he'll play. We see as much that ex-Guardians, like Eris and Osiris, had to do some soul searching to find a new role for themselves to be of use and find peace after losing their Ghosts. Eris took on the role of an arcane witch that knows the darker lore of the universe, while Osiris embraced the roles, of teacher, negotiator, and advisor, and scholar. Where before, he was too fixated on saving the universe, now? He doesn't need to be, or at least doesn't have the time anymore. Instead, he's focused on mediating alliances between our allies, and putting his centuries of knowledge to use.
Crow was the first guardian through to the Pale Heart. The wish dragons and taken could be a part of his memories or even his connection to Mara Sov. In each room there are two except for the beginning and the end. The first could represent the one that is in Warlord's Ruin. The pairs could represent Riven and it's mate who's eggs we procured. While that may leave the 6th at a mystery, it could also be Riven's ghost that we used to complete the 15th wish. The Pale Heart is a representation of memories, yet there are no Fallen or Vex. In the Impasse, there are Taken and Dread. If the taken represent the fallen, the fallen can In turn represent old battles. The dread can represent the present. The lost city where the Cabal have a stronghold can be represented by the early version of the tower. The Impasse however is a really good example of a limital space. If you look at the layout. Where you spawn is where you were resurrected. Towards the passage to get to The Blooming is the same way you go on your journey to getting to the Last City. But what is the space in the other direction where the highway ends. Which direction represents where we came in and which direction matches where we would leave out?
I think it's also important how the term liminality was coined. Rather than transitional spaces, it was coined to refer specifically to people. Liminality is the state of change in a person during which they have begun to transition out of their old self, but before they have become who they will be when the change is done. It can be used in various contexts, such as puberty, coming of age, or rites of passage. It's the state between outsider and insider of a group, between child and adult. More than *just* being about change, it's about a state during which change has not yet completed. Zavala is certainly in this state.
The ahamakara memories could've manifested in the traveler when cayde was resurrected by riven. Since cayde was a part of the traveler when he was dead, and in his resurrection cutscene at the start of final shape you see riven pulling him/therefore interacting with the traveler.
Great video as always! Just also wanted to point out the grammatical error in the thumbnail as it says 'the' twice. "The Witness & THE THE Wish Dragons"
Man, I really hope we get more with the Ahamkara. I love anything and everything that has and would have to do with them, especially directly. Like, I want to learn more about the history of them. Their origins, before everything we know about them, like in reference with the Harmony. . . Though I will admit that it would likely tear me apart to know what the Witness and the Hive really did to them. . . So maybe not that part. But everything else? YES PLEASE! Especially their future. If we guardians have to ally ourselves with any particular factions or peoples, my light will be devoted to Mara Sov and Riven and Taranis's clutch.
this expansion and its trailers brought me back like the ghost did in the begging of destiny 1 after seven years of not even thinking about the game definitely worth experiencing
You know, I’m almost beginning To wonder if in the “Frontiers” expansion if we will see the precursor’s home world. The vanguard looking for answers as to what exactly these echos are made of that take us back to the actual birthplace of the Witness. Just a hunch and then giving us just a small glimpse as to what their civilization would look like here and now and then showing us a full destination based on that has huge potential. And could easily become a top 3 destination.
If I remember correctly in the beginning of tfs campaign either your ghost or another character says " it's all so familiar... yet different." Or something to that extent.
With the knowledge of both the lore tab for Mataiodoxia and the visual of the memories of location that are present in Liminality, I'm almost compelled to believe the stripping of flesh, muscle, and bone might've been in reference to an experiment the Witness performed on one- or possibly many- unfortunate wish dragon. It could explain why so many varying Ahamkara skeletal structures are present across the strike, when all we've really seen are the bones found in Warlord's Ruin and what was left of Riven's corpse during the introductory mission of Season of the Wish. Perhaps to get a better understanding of these creatures, the Witness did the unthinkable and imprisoned and slowly dissected what wish dragons It could get Its many hands on.
I am just sad we will never experience Lance's version of Zavala in Final Shape. There are a lot of emotional moments where I am sure he would have done a fantastic job
A small theory on whose memory the stike location is from What if it's parts / a part of Rivens memory? She IS the entire reason we got into the pale heart, maybe she wrote it into an unsaid part of the bargain? Just a small theory
20:00 One thought regarding the Ahamkara comes to mind: How certain are we that these ahamkara bones hold no power? Lets not forget that the ahamkara have the power to even break the fourth wall at times. Breaking the "wall" between reality and the pale heart seems like less of a stretch. We don't even know how Caide's resurrection has been twisted yet. Maybe this is the way. Bungie might not have had time to do something more with it, but I think it's completely conceivable that even the memories of Ahamkara bones within the pale heart could have some real power and influence.
I just wanted to add to your first point that if i remember correctly i think in truth to power (which if true is an unreliable source) the Ahamkara's whole goal is use their power to ascend their reality (aka Destiny) to ours
Zavala's epic clap back against Ikora and Cayde was stressful but so dang good to hear. The Commander was absolutely right. Zavala got dragged for doing the right thing before and his closest, most trusted ally called him a coward for it in a fit of passion. Now, Ikora was the one paralyzed by inaction, when they had no leads and no time to lose. We would have lost if not for Zavala. Even under stress he had everyone's best interests in mind. He did the right thing back then in Forsaken, and he did the necessary thing now in the Pale Heart. And he had every right to say it out loud. Besides, the ordeal made them even tighter in the end and grew respect around the whole table.
Is it possible that wish dragons nature is that of light/dark? Using “wish magic” to grant wishes by using darkness to take someone’s desire and the light to manifest and make the wish tangible? Like If I wished for a new weapon the dragon could use the power of darkness (mind and conscious) to take that desire and light (pure energy of creation) to manifest it into reality. Almost how the pale heart is presented to us in the way it is, a place made up of memories manifested into physical form by the light. It’s a huge and far shot theory with probably a few gaps as I am not well transversed in the lore as others but could that be why the wish dragons possibly followed in the travelers wake.
Maybe the guardians represent free will, choice, the new rule the gardener puts into the game, the "chaos" that must always be able to spark off and create something new.
Another good example of liminal spaces is the Minecraft mod, The Corners. It's a set of dimensions that, IMO, feels really off thanks to the use of shaders.
I wonder if the skulls we see are our memories of..Riven? I mean, there's obvious pyramidal/witness influence. But, why would Ahamkara respond to Taken essence? (yes, there's "because game") Our knowledge of Riven is that of a Taken Ahamkara. So, memories of Ahamkara responding to Taken energies..Riven would make sense. The Guts in the walls.. I'm not sure, but Queenswalk had us running inside her to the heart, nevermind wherever the heart teleports us to. We've never known Riven as a pure Ahamkara, unless you want to treat the spirit as such.
One thing I’m curious about is how Zavala got his ghost back. Didn’t Targe get shot and die during the season with Caital when the rogue psions made an assassination attempt on him?
@@ssjpico Targe was shot and disabled (I think it was stated it was a smaller version of the cage used on the Traveller during the Red War) but not killed. That made Zavala lose his light temporarily so the Psion could kill him properly.
In Unveiling, it's noted that the Gardener wanted to introduce a mechanic to the game that would let the rules change. I've always taken this to mean paracausality in general, but the Ahamkara quite literally change the rules of the game constantly. What if the Vex are actually the First Knife and a result of the Ahamkara?
wouldnt the vex being around during the flower game as the dominate pattern and as such that they are the most dominate form of causality (due to their domination in every pre-paracausal universe) but cannot understand paracausality contradict this?
@@papercamera2989It doesn't actually say the Vex were the pattern, it just heavily implies that via word choice. Most of the lore does point that direction though. And maybe they were, and the Ahamkara are also the new rule instead of paracausality in general. That idea doesn't require the Vex to be anything other than what we already think they are. I was lumping two ideas together due to some other random hints at other interpretations.
Will i have to do the raid of final shape in order to beat the witness or is that also possible without doing the raid? With how previous DLC's had some of the important story stuff hidden in raids that i would have missed without Byf here, i am cautious even with how good it is as i tend to play solo where possible
I think the Witness used various species to build the ritual to enact The Final Shape. One of which are the Ahamkara using their wish magic to make the impossible, possible. However because of their Faustian side effects, our presence and us killing the Witness is the price The Witness has to pay for enacting its ritual that would have resulting in the death of the Traveler.
That the lava is not lava, but actually the traveler blooding is very sickening. Are you sure, the ahamkara bones are just memorys? It`s strange, because there is no reason to remember them at that moment and the strike-boss is the tormentor of the ahamkara. It sounds more like the ahamkara wre in the peal heart and the witness ordered the tormentor to destroy them. (They can change reality at will, which means they can change the final shape at will.) They also say in the strike, that the ahamkara are helping them. Probably they want us to enact their revenge on the tormentor. Sidenote: I don`t think we have to border with consequences by using ahamkara magic here. The point of season of the wish was, that ahamkara aren`t just hungry monsters, which only live to feast, but are normal living beings with feelings. (Remember Warlords Ruin) They just wanted there revenge and that`s all. I don`t think they want to use our wishes against us after bringing their revenge to the tormentor. (Also you are still worried about Crows wish to bring back Cayde. You sholdn`t be. In the loretab with Crows wish Riven says as Mara to Crow that she is sorry for all her manipulation on him. Caydes return was Rivens apology to Crow.)
I had an epiphany about the Witness recently. The closest thing we have to something like it in real life that I could think of would be Uncle Sam for the United States. I know it helps me understand it a little better, but it is...unsettling to think about in that way as well.
![ARGENTINA vs. BOLIVIA [6-0] | RESUMEN | ELIMINATORIAS SUDAMERICANAS | FECHA 10](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/C3wPtKNbAOA/mqdefault.jpg)
If you want to get Final Shape for yourself, click here: bung.ie/MyNameisByf #BungieCreator #ad
My life is complete when Byf is in the mix! I hope I can get a fire team to do the raid!
Byf did you see Myelin's last video? HUGE! Idk if you've had a chance to see the new race introduced.
I just realized that the new voice actor for Zavala, Keith David, is also the voice actor for the President of the USA in Rick & Morty lmao
Bungie sponsoring Byf to do a lore review on their content is like getting a FAT bonus at your dream job
it's called a cop out for not being able to produce a coherent story in the past decade.
the Destiny "community" is absolutely incompetent.
🤡
@@The_Gravemindthis bother gets no pussy🤡
@@The_Gravemind I know for a fact a Halo fan isn't coping in byfs comments when that series has been bastardized and cucked beyond belief. Crying Stockholm syndrome while being in the same damn cell is wild.
@@The_Gravemindbrother, i know you're still mad bungie stopped making halo games (i am too, a little) but it was over a decade ago. move on, stop trolling in destiny youtube comment sections and find something better to do with your life. this is just sad man get real
@@The_Gravemind the gravemind with 🤡 face paint image your comment just gave me, because of the cope, made my night thank you
“if you like the lore videos I’ve done the last few months”
Excuse me sir, I love all the videos you put out for lore and such. There is no question of “if”😂🤣
What is this "if" word he keeps using??
@@KenpoKid77 reminds me a pain and ill from Hercules lol
No if at all
6:47 Dude, you say this as I'm working my security job patrolling my local multi-level parking garages at 1 AM...
Hello byf, i once played amongst you in gambit. You killed the scoreboard.
As an avid Gambit player, this comment alone about Byf playing Gambit made my guardian, ghost and myself smile. 😂
You caught me in a rare moment of bounty prep I feel. That being said... It is always fun to take short dives back in every once in a while...
@@MynameisByf I personally feel Gambit is underrated, I'd chose it over crucible any day lol.
@MynameisByf oh byf, that was not a compliment
Still reminded of Ice Age every time I see the "frozen" pale blocks of glass like @ 3:33 and 23:32. lol
That poor red bar scorn raider just caught the meanest shiver strike in existence 😭
I absolutely loved how Bungie wrote Zavala this expansion. That narrative version of the strike was my favorite dialogue in the expansion. How Zavala lashes out on everyone including Cayde and brought up a really good point about him having no say on Zavala and Ikora’s beef for dying on them. It’s been nothing but hard since that event occurred for the Vanguard. And how he delivers that “That’s not enough”. SHEEESH 🔥🔥🔥
🤡
Ok be honest did you even play the final shape. And also why are you watching a bfy vid if you ain't into destiny @@The_Gravemind
@@The_Gravemind I sometimes miss being an edgy teenager too but I’m glad I grew out of it hope the same happens to you brotha
The Witness knows what an Ahamkara's insides look like bc it was running solo Riven on its Titan smurf account
The biggest thing I learned after watching this video is that Byf could absolutely do SCP content.
itd be like a secret second channel thing that would find its own audience , i think that might go well
@@AtenSol12I think he should do them on this channel as well.
@@MorganNull-uj6uu i dont inherently disagree but i know for a lot of other destiny content creators if they end up wanting to expand their content they have to do secondary channels and such bec the primary destiny audience wont engage and itll make the metric performance of the main channel look poor.
Year. I'd start playing D2 seriously after dive into lore and find there things, that i love in SCP and some other similar fiction universes.
I’d love a second channel with SCP content. Very interesting stuff and his voice would make it all the more compelling
This is just like Gorbino's Quest. This is the Gorbino's Quest of Byf explaining the L O R E.
Agreed, I think Bungie took a lot of inspiration from the deep story that is Gorbino’s Quest.
so real, i think tfs honestly pales in comparison to the beauty that is gorbino's quest, i mean it is 500 hours of mindpumping action
Byf popping his super right in front of the Tormentor was bold lol
I have yet to actually encounter Liminality during any of my vanguard playlist sessions
Same
They removed it because people were joining mid strike when loading in and missing story beats and it would complete the step if they joined at the boss, so you either A have to load it up manually, B wait for them to fix, or C, do the Nightfall of it if you're able to when that eventually goes live
I played it two weeks ago in vanguard ops, it was bugged, i havnt played VOps in whie, idk if its rotating rn
I just had it show up for the first time today
@@theeternalslayer9513 thats what happened when I did it with my friend day one missed everything before the large room with the strand boss
another part of the discomfort we get in the strike is the disunity of the vanguard in this crucial moment. personally referred to it as the "mom and dad are fighting" arc lol
Bungo sponsoring Byf is like the rest of us getting paid to breathe air or drink water
Hell yeah
Its like having your cake, and eating it too!
“Liminal” was the name of the card from the Deck of Whispers representing Arc Light. The eye of a hurricane could be described as liminal, in a sense.
|| Amid the endless death, one flew--unnatural, all-consuming need……… And in the space between the two, accursed comprehension freed. ||
Byf gives us lyf. Your videos are always so good at breaking down the lore and pointing out things that most of us often miss. Thank you.
While I honestly do wish Lance Reddick could have seen the Final Shape after all his years of voicing our Commander, I have to admit, Keith David's more gruff tone really worked to convey the inner conflict of Zavala. It's as if the shift in his character almost necessitated it. Rest in Peace, Lance Reddick.
And personally, I remember playing through the campaign back in the day hearing her call Zavala a coward for putting his duties to the people above his personal feelings @31:36 really made me dislike her character. Though, it did make me really enjoy the writing because it kept in line with both her character and his.
Now that Byf has mentioned the Ikea SCP, id certainly love to listen to him talk about the SCP lore.
@@Djoki1 second this
This was probably one of my favorite strikes tbh
Ikr!
30:20 damn, i wasn't sure who would be the new voice actor for zavala, but man Keith David is doing good work.
I believe they confirmed Keith David at least 6 months in advance if I'm remembering correctly. But kudos to you for avoiding the internet for that long
Liminality is definitely in my top 3 of strikes (granted it may drop to my most hated when it comes to gms but I digress) but the reminder of how things in the pale heart are all from memories made manifest makes me wonder how the witness saw guts of an ahamkara as well. Did it pin on down through sheer force of will and do what it did in the matodoxia lore tabor did it take some and peel awake taken flesh to see what they look like underneath. So many questions maybe it’s something that those 5 remaining dragons not of Riven’s clutch can tell us one day since I can only imagine what a wish dragon would do if it got its claws on an echo
I think The Witness knows what the Ahamkaras' insides look like because it dissected them. I've been interpreting all the sliced up and rebuilt creatures as the Witness trying to create more perfect beings with only the powers of darkness and physics. I also think the weird combo of things actually stems from differing opinions inside The Witness. I think it was a hint all along that The Witness didn't actually have a solid plan other than "freeze it all". The details of the ideal shapes to be frozen into were still different based on the opinions of the Precursors within.
I wasn't expecting a crossover between the SCP foundation, Liminal spaces, And destiny.
All of my favorite things
Mom wake up Byf just uploaded
hahaha
@@kevindew123that wasn't even remotely funny.
Kind of makes you wonder if the ahamkara sowed the witnesses defeat long ago. Did they cast doubt in some of his followers, or even some of the descendants who wanted to deflect? Was the witness aware of this and angry at them to the point where his memories include their guts on the walls?
I like this style of lore video. Where you repeat voice lines and video clips multiple times. It may seem a bit handhold-y, but to me it's much more comprehensive and assertive that the audience absolutely understands what's going on
Maybe rivens memories, when she pulled cayde back
I think something about the manifestation of memories is that even just an individual's memories can be extremely messy and incomplete, or just inaccurate altogether.
This is bringing me to more questions about the other Precursors we have met, the Precursor Vex.
The cohesion of the concept of liminality and its presentation within the Strike is peak game design. For this reason, it has become my favorite Strike in Destiny.
Wild n crazy thought what if the gardener used the ahamakara wish to bend the rules of the flower game to become principles within the game
I love your use of analogies to explain the lore, and the more complex terminology for certain level names, really reflects the lore and deeper narrative/thought, the writers put into how the Final Shape effects the whole cast going forward. I'm looking forward to seeing how Zavala will change going forward, what role he'll play. We see as much that ex-Guardians, like Eris and Osiris, had to do some soul searching to find a new role for themselves to be of use and find peace after losing their Ghosts. Eris took on the role of an arcane witch that knows the darker lore of the universe, while Osiris embraced the roles, of teacher, negotiator, and advisor, and scholar. Where before, he was too fixated on saving the universe, now? He doesn't need to be, or at least doesn't have the time anymore. Instead, he's focused on mediating alliances between our allies, and putting his centuries of knowledge to use.
Stream was real cool. Hated to miss the raid-along, but looking forward to seeing the vid.
The best SCP is the tomatos that fly at supersonic towards anyone who tells a bad joke
The speed they fly at is directly proportional to how bad the joke is. When told "the worst joke in the world" is when it went supersonic.
@@ShakaarGaleed ah thanks for the clarification! I knew it was something like that but either way it's hilarious 😂
Crow was the first guardian through to the Pale Heart. The wish dragons and taken could be a part of his memories or even his connection to Mara Sov. In each room there are two except for the beginning and the end. The first could represent the one that is in Warlord's Ruin. The pairs could represent Riven and it's mate who's eggs we procured. While that may leave the 6th at a mystery, it could also be Riven's ghost that we used to complete the 15th wish. The Pale Heart is a representation of memories, yet there are no Fallen or Vex. In the Impasse, there are Taken and Dread. If the taken represent the fallen, the fallen can In turn represent old battles. The dread can represent the present. The lost city where the Cabal have a stronghold can be represented by the early version of the tower. The Impasse however is a really good example of a limital space. If you look at the layout. Where you spawn is where you were resurrected. Towards the passage to get to The Blooming is the same way you go on your journey to getting to the Last City. But what is the space in the other direction where the highway ends. Which direction represents where we came in and which direction matches where we would leave out?
Video actually starts at 3:13
I think it's also important how the term liminality was coined. Rather than transitional spaces, it was coined to refer specifically to people. Liminality is the state of change in a person during which they have begun to transition out of their old self, but before they have become who they will be when the change is done. It can be used in various contexts, such as puberty, coming of age, or rites of passage. It's the state between outsider and insider of a group, between child and adult. More than *just* being about change, it's about a state during which change has not yet completed. Zavala is certainly in this state.
Zavalas titan brain cell took over
The ahamakara memories could've manifested in the traveler when cayde was resurrected by riven. Since cayde was a part of the traveler when he was dead, and in his resurrection cutscene at the start of final shape you see riven pulling him/therefore interacting with the traveler.
I’d love to see the result of an ahamkara receiving one of the Echoes of the witness
The witness and the the wish dragons?
Great video as always! Just also wanted to point out the grammatical error in the thumbnail as it says 'the' twice.
"The Witness & THE THE Wish Dragons"
Man, I really hope we get more with the Ahamkara. I love anything and everything that has and would have to do with them, especially directly. Like, I want to learn more about the history of them. Their origins, before everything we know about them, like in reference with the Harmony. . . Though I will admit that it would likely tear me apart to know what the Witness and the Hive really did to them. . . So maybe not that part. But everything else? YES PLEASE! Especially their future. If we guardians have to ally ourselves with any particular factions or peoples, my light will be devoted to Mara Sov and Riven and Taranis's clutch.
this expansion and its trailers brought me back like the ghost did in the begging of destiny 1 after seven years of not even thinking about the game definitely worth experiencing
You know, I’m almost beginning To wonder if in the “Frontiers” expansion if we will see the precursor’s home world. The vanguard looking for answers as to what exactly these echos are made of that take us back to the actual birthplace of the Witness. Just a hunch and then giving us just a small glimpse as to what their civilization would look like here and now and then showing us a full destination based on that has huge potential. And could easily become a top 3 destination.
The description of a liminal space is enviromental horror, thank you
Byf, Curse Of the Windows: Update
If I remember correctly in the beginning of tfs campaign either your ghost or another character says " it's all so familiar... yet different." Or something to that extent.
When we get the Raid video, do we also get the stream? Streams r just the best thing to put on to sleep. Never ending Byf voice lullaby :)
With the knowledge of both the lore tab for Mataiodoxia and the visual of the memories of location that are present in Liminality, I'm almost compelled to believe the stripping of flesh, muscle, and bone might've been in reference to an experiment the Witness performed on one- or possibly many- unfortunate wish dragon. It could explain why so many varying Ahamkara skeletal structures are present across the strike, when all we've really seen are the bones found in Warlord's Ruin and what was left of Riven's corpse during the introductory mission of Season of the Wish. Perhaps to get a better understanding of these creatures, the Witness did the unthinkable and imprisoned and slowly dissected what wish dragons It could get Its many hands on.
I am just sad we will never experience Lance's version of Zavala in Final Shape. There are a lot of emotional moments where I am sure he would have done a fantastic job
Definitely need another season with Ahamkara to know more
Ah a new Byf video to listen to on lunch. My day is made!
Aztec and Byf? my fav Titan and my fav Warlock?
hell yeah
Aren't they both warlock mains now tho? /j
Straight away, unloading everything into the Witness.
A small theory on whose memory the stike location is from
What if it's parts / a part of Rivens memory?
She IS the entire reason we got into the pale heart, maybe she wrote it into an unsaid part of the bargain?
Just a small theory
byf, now you gave me an interesting theory; What if the wish dragons were *made* by the traveler?
20:00 One thought regarding the Ahamkara comes to mind: How certain are we that these ahamkara bones hold no power? Lets not forget that the ahamkara have the power to even break the fourth wall at times. Breaking the "wall" between reality and the pale heart seems like less of a stretch. We don't even know how Caide's resurrection has been twisted yet. Maybe this is the way.
Bungie might not have had time to do something more with it, but I think it's completely conceivable that even the memories of Ahamkara bones within the pale heart could have some real power and influence.
I just wanted to add to your first point that if i remember correctly i think in truth to power (which if true is an unreliable source) the Ahamkara's whole goal is use their power to ascend their reality (aka Destiny) to ours
Zavala's epic clap back against Ikora and Cayde was stressful but so dang good to hear. The Commander was absolutely right. Zavala got dragged for doing the right thing before and his closest, most trusted ally called him a coward for it in a fit of passion.
Now, Ikora was the one paralyzed by inaction, when they had no leads and no time to lose. We would have lost if not for Zavala. Even under stress he had everyone's best interests in mind. He did the right thing back then in Forsaken, and he did the necessary thing now in the Pale Heart. And he had every right to say it out loud.
Besides, the ordeal made them even tighter in the end and grew respect around the whole table.
Is it possible that wish dragons nature is that of light/dark? Using “wish magic” to grant wishes by using darkness to take someone’s desire and the light to manifest and make the wish tangible? Like If I wished for a new weapon the dragon could use the power of darkness (mind and conscious) to take that desire and light (pure energy of creation) to manifest it into reality. Almost how the pale heart is presented to us in the way it is, a place made up of memories manifested into physical form by the light. It’s a huge and far shot theory with probably a few gaps as I am not well transversed in the lore as others but could that be why the wish dragons possibly followed in the travelers wake.
26:02 - Flowers. Are these any way linked or similar to the content of Savathun Throne world? The colour and look seems similar.
A good example of liminality is found in the back room. Imagine an office space where there is no one there
What your describing Byf sounds like the World Between in Elden Ring.
Random SCP shout by Byf. Truly, we live in a time.
I would love to see a battle between the witness and the wish Dragons 🐉
Maybe the guardians represent free will, choice, the new rule the gardener puts into the game, the "chaos" that must always be able to spark off and create something new.
Right off the bat, a veiled statue in the middle of a town.
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Another good example of liminal spaces is the Minecraft mod, The Corners. It's a set of dimensions that, IMO, feels really off thanks to the use of shaders.
I wonder if the skulls we see are our memories of..Riven?
I mean, there's obvious pyramidal/witness influence. But, why would Ahamkara respond to Taken essence? (yes, there's "because game")
Our knowledge of Riven is that of a Taken Ahamkara. So, memories of Ahamkara responding to Taken energies..Riven would make sense.
The Guts in the walls.. I'm not sure, but Queenswalk had us running inside her to the heart, nevermind wherever the heart teleports us to.
We've never known Riven as a pure Ahamkara, unless you want to treat the spirit as such.
One thing I’m curious about is how Zavala got his ghost back. Didn’t Targe get shot and die during the season with Caital when the rogue psions made an assassination attempt on him?
@@ssjpico Targe was shot and disabled (I think it was stated it was a smaller version of the cage used on the Traveller during the Red War) but not killed. That made Zavala lose his light temporarily so the Psion could kill him properly.
In Unveiling, it's noted that the Gardener wanted to introduce a mechanic to the game that would let the rules change. I've always taken this to mean paracausality in general, but the Ahamkara quite literally change the rules of the game constantly. What if the Vex are actually the First Knife and a result of the Ahamkara?
wouldnt the vex being around during the flower game as the dominate pattern and as such that they are the most dominate form of causality (due to their domination in every pre-paracausal universe) but cannot understand paracausality contradict this?
@@papercamera2989It doesn't actually say the Vex were the pattern, it just heavily implies that via word choice. Most of the lore does point that direction though. And maybe they were, and the Ahamkara are also the new rule instead of paracausality in general. That idea doesn't require the Vex to be anything other than what we already think they are. I was lumping two ideas together due to some other random hints at other interpretations.
Will i have to do the raid of final shape in order to beat the witness or is that also possible without doing the raid? With how previous DLC's had some of the important story stuff hidden in raids that i would have missed without Byf here, i am cautious even with how good it is as i tend to play solo where possible
When I think about "following in the Traveler's wake"; I think of dolphins.
Never thought I’d be hearing about the backrooms and the infinite IKEA in a D2 lore video
The raid along I am looking forward to. Love the content
I didn’t think that Byf would give a SCP recommendation
I think the Witness used various species to build the ritual to enact The Final Shape. One of which are the Ahamkara using their wish magic to make the impossible, possible. However because of their Faustian side effects, our presence and us killing the Witness is the price The Witness has to pay for enacting its ritual that would have resulting in the death of the Traveler.
What is a climbing frame, jungle gym is clearly the lore accurate name for playful scaffolding
So what about the single white precursor statue? They’re usually grey/black why is that one by the ahamkara skull so bright?
❤❤ I always appreciate Byf lore videos ^_^
It’s fascinating to me that we need a ghost to wield the light, but don’t need anything to wield the darkness.
If the Ahamkara were following the Traveler, I wouldn’t be surprised if the Witness encountered them before, captured and dissected them.
Off topic but does anyone think we're going back to the original resting place of Saint 14 in the Infinite Forest to see if he's the og?
That the lava is not lava, but actually the traveler blooding is very sickening.
Are you sure, the ahamkara bones are just memorys? It`s strange, because there is no reason to remember them at that moment and the strike-boss is the tormentor of the ahamkara. It sounds more like the ahamkara wre in the peal heart and the witness ordered the tormentor to destroy them. (They can change reality at will, which means they can change the final shape at will.) They also say in the strike, that the ahamkara are helping them. Probably they want us to enact their revenge on the tormentor.
Sidenote: I don`t think we have to border with consequences by using ahamkara magic here. The point of season of the wish was, that ahamkara aren`t just hungry monsters, which only live to feast, but are normal living beings with feelings. (Remember Warlords Ruin) They just wanted there revenge and that`s all. I don`t think they want to use our wishes against us after bringing their revenge to the tormentor.
(Also you are still worried about Crows wish to bring back Cayde. You sholdn`t be. In the loretab with Crows wish Riven says as Mara to Crow that she is sorry for all her manipulation on him. Caydes return was Rivens apology to Crow.)
The traveler was not wrong, though the sacrifice of his ghost Zavala got info desperately needed.
I know you might already know about this but there's double "the" in the thumbnail "The Witness and The The Wish Dragons".
Telling people to check out SCP is like telling Alice to look into that rabbit hole over there
Could it be that Riven, when she sent Crow, had her memories entangled in the Pale Heart due to that contact?
That's a good one, but I personally think it might be ikora
I think I remember her talking about how she participated in the great amakara hunt
No way bro brought up the Infinite IKEA SCP in a Bungie sponsored video
Would of been really cool if the dragons played a part in the expansion
Join byf next time on: try not to get sidetracked talking about SCP's
(I love it when you ramble about even more cool stuff, byf the lore master)
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Why was it when you were explaining liminal spaces I was getting vibes of the langoliers.
Love your stories. Just dial back on all the ad's please
This is his job? Ads pay him for us watching it. RUclips premium is available and no more ads
Byf, I think you should cover SCP content as well! There are many stories you would enjoy. Amani-Ram.
I guess for a more mainstream one…. Silent hill areas could be considered liminal spaces?
I had an epiphany about the Witness recently. The closest thing we have to something like it in real life that I could think of would be Uncle Sam for the United States. I know it helps me understand it a little better, but it is...unsettling to think about in that way as well.
👉"We want YOU to embrace salvation."
@@heyj64 I mean, you can kinda see it though even in the joke