EDIT: Already realized I messed something up - I explained the "passing" mechanic incorrectly, in other games it also consumes half a turn, however passing again would cause you to lose a press turn icon - in this game, the next turn is kept. My point still stands, but I didn't explain it clearly. You'll have to let me know how I did on this video, it's a special occasion since I received a review code for the game. Though it was fun, I'm not quite used to writing in this style and hope the quality doesn't suffer for it. It's great to see so many people talking about SMT V, and while I do have a lot of critiques for it, it was fun overall. Experience videos for SMT 2, Giten, and Last Bible are still coming, as usual.
Yeah, it's weird for you to play a game and not suffer. You didn't have to fight with an emulator, save states, or translation issues. If you're not in pain, it's not nearly as fun. I say the same thing about Civvie 11. I really like your videos. Keep up the good work. Squeeze out a couple shorts if you get a chance. Your Jimenez one still makes me laugh at least once a week.
Hey marsh I just wanted to say thanks for making all of those videos about the devil story games. Since watching them I played through kyuuyaku to it’s entirely, and really enjoyed it. If it weren’t for you I would’ve just written off both games as Old and unplayable but I truly enjoyed them!
In past games, passing would make one turn icon flash and passing again would use the flashing icon. In this game, it looks like passing just converts each turn icon into a half turn icon.
Holy shit, Marsh finally isn't reviewing a Japanese Exclusive game made in 1776 for the Romero SuperSquare With a fan translation only available on the deep web It's a Christmas miracle!
You mean Swoon Megami Tensei: Baka no Shine: & JAKKU FROSTO 3: Cockturne: THE ONLY GAME WITH A LAW BIAS Edition? It was released in 1776, but only in Hell, and for William RadRectangle.
Marsh shouldn't have a small channel. He's effectively the SMT Historian. We should all be passing his videos around and recommending people subscribe. I challenge everyone to get him at least one more subscriber this week.
The single biggest missed opportunity in this game was the Bethel branches and their leaders. Here you have an SMT game where YHVH is officially dead and his throne of power is up for grabs, and you have all these massively powerful demons representing major religions and mythologies, only to have maybe one or two scenes with them and generic boss fights in the middle of nowhere. Characters like Zeus just hanging out stationary in a pile of rubble in the corner of area 4 waiting for you to kill them is such a letdown. They should've cut all the Lahmu shit, made the second area about the disagreements and splintering of the Bethel factions, and have the third and fourth areas involve a war between them with your main cast taking inspiration from these branches to fulfill their own paths. You could even get a bunch of full-blown dungeons with Hinduist, Nordic, Egyptian, Greek themes and so on!
I could deal with completely separate zones to go into and have to conquer, but not dungeons. I get headaches just looking at the dungeons from Nocturne on YT etc.
@@buddylord3020 Arioch's dungeon, F3 reversed 5 years of anger management therapy in 30 minutes. I don't want to see a dungeon ever again in my life. /j
YESSS Lahmu was such an unecessary sidestep they could've forced character growth using a plot point or characters we actually have a reason to care about but no it felt so empty compared to SMT 4
I completely agree with it feeling like a "skeleton" of a story. I really liked some of the worldbuilding, the idea behind a Nahobino, and for once I actually empathised with each alignment to some degree, but once you dive even slightly into any of the character growth or the plot beats it starts to feel apart. I still personally loved the game regardless, and each of the routes feeling interesting to me gave me something to grab onto narratively, but I don't know what happened with the story overall.
Its crazy how much I felt for Jonathan and his reasoning in smt4's law route compared to how much I hate everything law is represented as in smt V. It also feels weird that the compendium descriptions use the nine alignment system but nothing else is done with that anywhere as far as I ever noticed.
Really? I actually felt like SMT V was one of the more sympathetic portrayals of law in the entire series. Bethel was more focused on protecting the human world from demons than brainwashing or killing people. The biggest problem was that it was pretty vague about what the law route in V actually entails besides a brief description at the end.
@@firstnamelastname7244 I would say the main issue with 5's law is that its NOT actually law at all.Law has always been about destroying one's free will in exchange for not having to worry about your own issues,or essentially to conform.5 treats law as this "WE JUST WANNA HELP AND SAVE HUMANITY" faction when even the noblest of law heroes,look at Jonathan,understand that law is anything but. As a lawfag,it's the equivalent of the game saying "you guys are the heroes now :D" when law was never about being a hero.
The worst part is it has the best ending despite being so dumb. Chaos gets the shaft hard and true neutral is somehow worse than regular neutral. Dazai is a bad character but he's also the one who is the most correct and has the most screentime. Just awful.
I agree with everything. I love having an open SMT world and they started off good, but adding a few dungeons in there would break up the monotony and homogeneous feeling of all of the areas. They really did start to feel samey with different color filters. I guess they spent a lot of time learning how to make the open world function and then quickly did the story at the end. Hopefully they don't give up on this format and just improve it for the next game (or fix it with dlc ig). All in all I still love this game a lot and am on a 3rd playthrough. Also this review was great and I hope you consider making another review in the future!
I think they’ll stick with it looking at how well the sales have been. Hopes are the same I have for BotW2: more of the same, just crafted to perfection.
I completely agree with the alignment lock part, i mean, it has its problems, like if you want an specific ending you may need a guide (specially for neutral, and specially in SMT IV with those sidequest) but man it feels a lot more rewarding than a screen that literally says "choose your ending", when i played IV for the first time I felt fulfilled when after the alignment lock i saw Stephen in the white forest and i inmediatly knew i ended up in the neutral route.
@@nr2676 I think a hybrid between SMT IV's and Strange Journey's alignment systems would be real nice. As someone who hates Neutral with a passion and, as a result, never had any problem with reaching my desired ending(s) in Shin Megami Tensei IV, I absolutely adore the story and dialog choices you get in that game. They feel natural and organic, like actual decisions you would have to make as a person living in that world, instead of (mostly - I know there are exceptions) picking very obvious lines before a boss in SJ that pretty much always boil down to "demons are cool", "demons are awful" and "whatever, humans for the win". On the other hand, Strange Journey has a very good gameplay implementation of your character's alignment, affecting - but not restricting, unlike in older SMT games - both your party efficency in battle and recruitment options. So if there was a game that combined narrative strength of SMT IV and the way SJ reflects your alignment in terms of mechanics, that would be awesome.
I like what I "think" is the idea for the reps. Dazai is a self doubting guy with good intentions but no drive, so when he's given a purpose greater than himself he slowly becomes more radicalized. Yuzuru wants to protect his home and family so he goes all in on finding what on paper is a good to do that without thinking of the ramifications of a multitude of gods ruling things. And Yakumo is an interesting choice for a neutral rep since while he could be have been all "humanity and middle ground for the win" he himself only cares for certain human lives and his rather unshakable from these views. The problem is the only one with any visible development is Dazai and that's rushed. Yakumo is fun as a flat character and a maybe meta jab at the just kill both sides motif for most neutral routes, but other than that? ...Nuwa's hot, I guess. Oh, and Yuzuru is there. The strangest chaos rep.
the chaos route is weird specifically cuz, like, tsukuyomi/yuzuru's goal ISN'T chaos. they just want a democratized order instead of the authoritarian one god had. it's just that somehow everyone in the game except for him & yuzuru know that's not what's going to happen. it's weird that 5's two opposites are "guy who wants law/order" and "guy who wants law/order but the exact opposite will happen instead because he's oblivious"
@@guerolondon It's chaos because think of how a world where Politicians are gods, Super politicians Imagine if WW3 happened between these gods, they won't give a shit they could fuck the entire world in seconds, we know how the gods from Smt would solve most problems with destruction and war and they don't give a fuck about humanity, maybe Tsukoyomi, but you really think that Zeus would hold down to crush anyone in the way of his fight? What about Shiva planning to destroy the entire universe in Everyone's back? Chaos basically would lead to humans being opressed by a bunch of gods war
@@neoonewingedren1836 i understand WHY it would be chaotic, that's not the point. i'm saying that tsukuyomi & yuzuru genuinely believed that a world ruled by gods would be more orderly/democratic. the point of these endings is these are the ideals of the respective characters made into reality, for better & worse. most chaos routes explicitly want chaos and acknowledge that people will be hurt by it. that's not what yuzuru or tsukuyomi wanted - their expectation was it would stabilize the human world if all of the gods had a voice in worldly matters. so the chaos route doesn't represent yuzuru or tsukuyomi's wish for chaos, it represents their naivete that LEADS to chaos. the law ending is exactly what the law characters wanted; the (true) neutral ending is exactly what the neutral characters wanted. the chaos ending isn't what tsukuyomi or yuzuru wanted, at all. that's the issue, it's incongruent with the other routes
@@guerolondon guess they tried to subvert expectatives by making the law guys look like chaos The neutral guys look like chaos And the chaos guys look like neutral But in the end It was a mess because Nuwa and Yakumo have the same amount of screentime as Dante in Nocturne lol and Yuzuru it's like those avatar self insert jrpg characters but instead of being a player he is suposed to be a character
@@guerolondon I think thats why i really like it, its a lot more interesting than just pure might makes right if you die you werent strong enough, it was a really fresh take on the ideals that lead to chaos. It's imo better than like SJs original Chaos ending where its rep was hypocritical (that interestingly its New Chaos ending helped to fix and made more sense in context of what was actually happening)
I think my feelings are mostly the same. Perfectly fine with the combat, even with the wacky level damage scaling and dampeners. But the story was pretty underwhelming. I think the biggest problem is that NOTHING interesting happens. Sure, people hated IV Apocalypse's story, but at least the idea of fighting a pantheon of gods, who turn a giant sunflower snake into an egg to recreate the universe, is pretty exciting. V just doesn't have that "cool" factor that the previous stories had. I just hope the rushed story is down to growing pains caused by the switch to Unreal Engine.
@@childofcascadiaI haven't beaten it yet, still going through base 4, strange journey, 3 nocturne, and now 5 vengeance. However, I do really like what world building it has in the beginning, and also how it feels like an alternate route in a resident evil game. The fact when you pick your name the older cadet dude who was ragging on you for being lazy, actually shows a softer side and disdains that they called an orphan "no name", and says he'll make sure everyone calls you that. For what short time he's present it makes Adramelechs horseshit somewhat impactful and sting a bit. Like damn, guess I'm still no name.
Weird to see them cling so hard to the world of Nocturne when that was literally its weakest element. Not the setting mind, it's a cool place to think about, but while playing it's mostly demons without much going on. I liked IV because, despite the gameplay changes, it made a point to have a much more interesting world that felt inhabited. The most distinguishing element about V is that it does no one thing uniquely well. Regardless, great work here. Very insightful.
I agree with everything you've said and imo you were being charitable, I've had more problems than you had with the game, namely a severe lack of enemy variety within some areas, really awful HP scaling of demons, poorly balanced spread of elemental demons across the compendium, complete abscence of worthwhile endgame ( there are like TWO end-game bosses and zero secret dungeons/areas), severely lacking final stretch ( come on, it was a corridor with some loot and two lame bosses whom you could punk in two turns if you were on your Secret Ending playthrough), and the worst crime of all - NO PUZZLE BOY! No puzzles period! But overall I'm glad it came out - I love seeing SMT mainline in 3D and it's really gorgeous, great animations for skills and some awesome gameplay improvements with few rough spots. Hopefully they'll make good use of these assets and experience and announce some SMT spin-off, be it a new series or a sequel to Raidou/DeSu/DDS or even a sequel a la SMT 4 Apocalypse.
I thought Da'at was super cool. Yeah there was sand/snow and busted buildings in every area, but they all had their own vibe and it was fun to explore. I wouldn't mind more diversity though. The story was lackluster, but everything else about SMT V is my favorite in the mainline series.
I personally like SMT V a lot more than most reviews seem to, since a lot of the critiques just don't matter as much to me, but I 100% think the level scaling in combat and story in general should've been better. It was definitely rushed and we will get a Maniax or Apocalypse version like with every other SMT game, but I'm not confident it'll be able to solve a lot of the story's problems
Well the thing about Apocalypse os that ot was originally meant to be a refinement of 4 when it later became a sequel instead. And to me, that's why the story in Apocalypse is divisive, but the gameplay is generally considered to be top notch. It's because gameplay literally came before story in it's development. And I feel something similar happened to 5, where they tried to perfect the gameplay with the story being second priority in development. Personally, I think if they made a sequel (or preferably a prequel for me) came out with the explicit intent of crafting a good story, it would make for a near perfect MegTen expereince.
Not gonna lie, in terms of the characters, i feel like i'm more attached to characters that was literally called CHAOS Hero and LAW Hero in SMT 1 way more than any of the characters in SMT V. I still really enjoy the game, the gameplay definitely hard carried the whole game for me.
I am absolutely shocked on how close your review of the game was to my impressions of it, I guess I can point any of my friends in the direction of this video if they want my opinion on SMTV well done as always looking forward to the next videos!
Say what you want about the two, I loved SMT IV and Apocalypse's demon voice acting, especially like Lucifer and YHVH. The voice mixing in SMT V was just... weird. Especially comparing say Metatron's fires of sinai from Nocturne or the Remaster compared to SMT V's god awful voice equivalent.
I agree with the whole Axiom ballbusting thing they’ve been doing lately to some of the games ever since Nocturne came out. It’s like, hey man, let me enjoy the moment. Stop with existential looping crisis for once. Despite how fun the game is gameplay wise, the balance kinda falls apart for me after a while but this is probably an issue for the minority who expected a lot more coming from the near perfect combat system of Apocalypse.
@@neoonewingedren1836 I agree with V having the best gameplay, Apocalypse being the only contender for it's combat (but I can't stand that game for other reasons). I didn't play SMTV expecting a good story so I wasn't dissapointed by that, but ironically I kind of understand where "pErSoNa wItHoUt tHe hEaRt" came from, as V lacks a certain substance that III, IV and SJ have imo. I played this one more as a monster collecting game.
The only big thing I disagree with is that I really enjoyed the demon king's temple. It has a few really good moments towards the end that expanded on the spatial reasoning that Nocturne liked to capitalize on. The final dungeon was just... kinda baffling with how terrible it was. I kept thinking some crazy puzzle was about to happen with the time stop mechanics but it just never happened. Given how quick it was from the first trailer to release, I can't help but wonder if it was rushed - there are a lot of aspects of the game that feel unfinished. Really I'm just glad to hear someone else comment on the godawful voice filter - it wasn't too unbearable in IV when most of the voiced dialogue came from humans, but demons do a lot more talking in V and it gets insanely grating and completely ruins the solid work of the VAs. Good shit as always m8, looking forward to the next videos.
I liked the final dungeon, reminded me of SMT1's dungeons in a good way. I feel like having more of that - straightforward, flat layouts, less open-ended design that doesn't just let you teleport to a save point and rush for the next one bypassing everything, a puzzle element (although with actual challenging puzzles) - would've made for some pretty fun gameplay to break up the open world monotony. The time stop gimmick wasn't used well, but I could see it being great in a better designed dungeon - make the player figure out a route through a larger grid of rooms, let them map out parts of the dungeon in time-stopped state while requiring the time to be unstopped to progress, maybe have some chests or keys only available in one of the two states so that eg. you need to unstop time to open the door, then stop it again to grab the item. As for the Demon King's castle, verticality kind of sucks in this game - the map is awful at depicting height (it's kind of color coded, except when it isn't), so much of the game relies on figuring out a way to get up (or, in the third area, *back* up) that it gets stale, and Nahobino isn't exactly the most mobile video game character. So while I liked that dungeon just fine in retrospect, having to do more jumping and platforming after coming from an entire area of figuring out the right way to get up there was just immensely frustrating.
You're far from alone; I miss having actual dungeons too. As cool as the idea of open-world SMT is, it can never match the feeling of genuine triumph that comes from conquering a massive, cruel, sprawling shit pit and kicking the shit out of whatever boss is insane enough to call this place his home. Da'at doesn't have that feeling, in my opinion.
I feel like after the SMT4 changes Atlus became lost because they were split between making 5 into a traditional smt, Nocturne, and the more modern stuff, Persona and the DS titles.
I feel like they had a lot of issues regarding pandemic, fans pressure for news, Nintendo wanting them to show something and optimizing for Switch while adapting to UE4 They lacked planning with V, they should had made something like a new IP testing UE4 before jumping to a mainline Smt and holded such an ambitious game to the next Nintendo console which will probably be stronger and easier to optimize
People really underestimate (or just don't really have a handle on) what SMT accomplished story-wise and character-wise in the past. There's a reason why Chaos Hero has so much amazing fanart, his story and his gradual transformation resonated with people. Compare that with Dazai who barely shows up, then pulls an Aizen and does a 180 in the span of a minute or so.
I'd argue that if Dazai is bad, then Yuzuru is even worse as he quite literally BARELY appears. Like, it was to the point I actually didn't even think he was the chaos rep(I originally thought it was Nuwa and Yakumo who were due to certain dialogue)
You had a deeper connection with Charlie, a guy only really memorable for eternally holding his nuts, than ANY of the characters in SMT 5. That speaks volumes.
@@firstnamelastname7244 Oh man. I just played that counting game a few days ago. It's embarrassing that I had to look up a guide. Thanks for the laugh. But yes, he's still a better character than the Nahobino. He's the blankest of blank slates. He's not even dry toast. Toast can be warm and crunchy. He's bread. A slice of flavorless bread. I wish we had some more actual protagonists in SMT. Are there any in SMT besides Vincent in Catherine?
@@100Servings I can think of a few examples of Megaten media with MCs with actual dialogue. (1) This is going to sound a bit troll-ish but bear with me, Itsuki from Tokyo Mirage Sessions. Since he is a pretty normal dude this isn't the best example so onto the next one. (2) ALL of the MCs of the Devil Children games, Setsuna, Mirai, Masaki, Jin and Akira. Yeah, the sub-series aimed at a younger audience is the one with MCs that are not Blank Slates for the players (It also helps that the Devil Children games are not always sunshine and rainbows.) And (3) this might be a bit of an odd example, and that its adaptations of already existing material with Blank Slate MCs, and giving them actual dialogue. Biggest example I can think of is Raidou Kuzunoha from the spin-offs of the same name, in the manga Raidou Kuzunoha VS The Lone Marebito.
@@rock117rx2 I'm not familiar with the Devil Children games, but I have seen some of the anime. Itsuki is a named and voiced protag though, so you're right. He's just the most boring person to ever exist. Raidoh SHOULD be a character, but even he's a blank slate really. Gatto is really the main character in that series. You made some good points, and it's not being a troll to answer a legitimate question. Thanks!
@@100Servings Again, the Raidou VS The Lone Marebito manga exists if you want to see the Protector Of The Capital have actual dialogue. As for the Devil Children MCs, here is my summary of them. Jin is a classic Shounen Hero, Akira is a more subdued version of the cool Shounen Rival. Mirai is a spunky go-getter girl... And Setsuna is a bit of a weird case as he is different within versions... In the 1st Devil Children anime, he is also a Shounen Hero like Jin. But one that is far more Played For Laughs. But in the game and the manga, he is a rather traumatised kid who just wants to protect his loved ones after his mom passed away from an illness. With the main difference being that in the manga he is A LOT more brutal in his fights. Like, have you noticed how the Demi-Fiend in fanarts. Whenever he is depicted fighting... He is shown just pummeling his foes with his bare fists while just powering through whatever wounds he gets during the fight? THAT'S how Setsuna fights in the manga! He ain't the son of the Morning Star himself for nothing!
I think this video was a total blast to watch. Definitely very different from the usual videos you produce but I think it’s a nice change of pace. You also present very good points, both pros and cons are delivered very well to the viewer and I can definitely agree with most of these points. Great video! I like it a lot!
coming back to this after Vengeance is kinda funny because you noting that boss fights seems to drag on reminds me of watching a video of one of the new Vengeance superbosses taking like 20 minutes to kill when the dude had like 999 stats on his entire party. Like what in the actual fuck
My biggest issue with the secret ending is the fact that the side quests you need to do to unlock it aside from the Shiva fight all involve demons swearing loyalty to you or you helping their situation just for you to turn around and nuke them all. I initially thought it would have you turn the demons human since demons would always be able to overpower regular people, and I thought the "logical" solution was to make them like us... not kill all your new friends and for some reason have them be cool with that!?
yo wtf that's a genius idea. Fuck it, I'm accepting this as the new canon True Neutral ending. You remake the world and turn all the demons into humans so you can hang out with all your friends in a peaceful world
For me, once I realized none of my choices mattered till the end, it totally ruined the game for me honestly. It made me feel like I wasted my time sitting there, considering my choices because honestly I sat there and did. The story was a snore fest and really the only thing I enjoyed was the combat. When I saw so many people praising this game and saying that all SMT games have to be like this from now on, I just really didn't get how anyone came to that conclusion but that's just my own feeling on it.
I don't really know why everyone is complaining so much about "choices not mattering." It does suck, but aside from DeSu, I can't really think of a megaten game where your choices do matter before the alignment lock. As for the rest of what you said, I don't see anyone saying all SMT games should be like this, unless they mean gameplay wise, because most people agree that the story kinda sucks. I love this game, but I can understand your opinion, since if you're the kind of person who needs a good story to get invested in a game, SMT V doesn't have much to offer you.
This is how it's always been though. I can't think of a single megaten game where your choices actually matter until the ending lock. I agree that it's a really shitty way of handling choices in a game, but it's not like this is something new. Atlus really wants megaten to be this game of moral choices, but they're too scared/lazy to make the choices (ha) they need to make
Honestly if the next mainline game has the exploration, overworld and battle mechanics as good as SMT V with the alignment system of SMT 4 or Strange Journey and a story that's at least as compelling as Strange Journey we'd have the perfect SMT game on our hands. But for now I'd like to chalk up SMT V to an experiment with new hardware, a germ of a good idea with its story but a tad undercooked. I'd still recommend it as an introduction to the series but not as strongly as I would Strange Journey or SMT 3. Also just get rid of the Mitama demons as free EXP and skill point dispensers they can break the game in half even without the DLC. Oh and the DLC can just go too, starting to smell a bit like Todd Howard over here with the three Demon's DLC, not as bad as the horse armor but it's up there.
Can't agree with exploration. While I would have liked more variety, it still kept me engaged and had me looking through every nook and cranny. (Dungeons sucked though) I think something can be said for lvl design that makes open exploration feel natural and pretty fun. You have to remember for SMT 5 unlike games like nocturne, theres not that much risk physically walking back to the save point, it simply wastes your time going back and forth. I personally find teleporting back better then saving on the sport like other recent games, where theres at least the pain of getting back where you were as a punishment. While light, it was often enough keep me going without teleporting back. I played hard, and encounters for much of the game didn't need assistance in the tense department .
@@kyyourneutralisminekiske7104 I was talking to a friend after he beat hydra and he was saying how much he hated having to run back every time he wanted to save/fuse/shop. Then he walked ten steps forward and got the teleport and was like "Oh, never mind this game's great".
I was admittedly had a lot of reservations about the open world since I'm not a fan of many of the AAA open world games, but I ended up really enjoying it. I get the point of all the areas being too similar, and while I do think they could've been more differing, I still enjoyed the different areas because the layouts still felt different, and I still had a ton of fun exploring the worlds, since there was always stuff in every nook and cranny, so there's always something to find. The story is pretty lame though, it feels like they had a lot of ideas that they just didn't put enough time into, like they planted the seeds, but never watered them. I personally love the games atmosphere and gameplay, and was very happy with this game. I was personally able to tolerate the plot simply because I think other aspects make up for it, but I totally understand how it can be a deal breaker for others. So overall not my favorite mainline game, (still goes to nocturne) I still enjoyed it thouroughly, and enjoyed your take on it
Glad to hear other people felt the world was as bland as me. I've played other open world games and not only is V lacking in unique environments, but moving around the world is mind-numbing due to no real movement options; just running and stiff jumping. It also annoys me when people say story doesn't matter when SMT4 exists. Having the characters follow you and seeing how they develop and drift apart was great. Not to mention the factions in the story actually interacted and you got to talk to tons of NPCs that were stuck in the middle of it all. This game tried so hard to be the next Nocturne, but it lacks the main thing it's praised for: Reasons. Instead we got probably the worst Law/Chaos story in the series. I got Yakumo's ending and I honestly thought it was the chaos ending due to how it was written. Overall it's a good game, but compared to any other mainline game it comes up short in pretty much every category.
The stories of SMT are so cool, not because of characters, but because they're atmosphere and philosophical quandries are so naturally written and explored that it creates this beautiful rhythm and harmony unlike most traditional narratives. Take Walter and Johnathan, they're not super interesting, but the way these characters work within the story of SMT IV is really good. They add layers to the world, ideologies, and plot, and aren't so boring that it breaks my immersion. Character in SMT represent these perspectives that drive the gameplay and story beyond who they are as people, and that's the best part for me. The stories are like 1984 or stanley kubrick films, you're there for this exploration of ideas and a bizarre world with a deep atmosphere.
I honestly really really liked this game, even with the admittedly half-baked story. The combat was fun, I enjoyed the customization of both my party members and the main character, and I loved all the side quests. The music was also a high-point, and one of my favorite soundtracks in the series. I will admit that playing strange journey after smt v really opened my eyes to how much more the story and characters could have been, and I wish that the realism from the characters in nocturne made it over to v. Overall though, I had a very fun time with the game, so i cant give it less than an 8/10
While I understand and even agree with some points, I see this entry in a much brighter light(not 9 or 10 out of 10 levels but more so 8). Talking to other people I've kind of accepted I'm gonna be the weirdo that likes the story because while I do also feel it's undercooked in many areas I think there are some interesting details here and there to think about but my opinion might radically change in a year. Combat is tight and the fusion systems continue to keep getting better with each entry, making the strongest demons is so satisfying but things should have probably been toned down (frequency of essences and items lessened for example). Exploration I'm split on, I love the music and how it shifts as you progress through an area, the layout of the fourth zone is clever as it just throws you in surrounded by strong foes, leaving you a bit disorientated at the start. Exploration can be really comfy but I wish there was a balance between dungeons and open worlds, less sand and more surprises with the larger foes. SMT V is from my perspective, a similar situation as IV was when it came out, there is no strong community consensuses. You have people who love it, hate it or strongly on the fence and I'm curious where the needle will go in years time. I doubt it will be beloved as IV turned out to be, maybe it will forever be in flux. The biggest thing to come out of V though is that we finally have an SMT game on console again and in turn all of these 3D demons and assets, my dream is Atlus is do what they did after Nocturne; make a bunch of spin offs using those assets and exploring ideas in both narrative and gameplay. Like what if got a new Devil Summoner with another Kuzunoha or hell, a remake of SMT 1 as the 30th anniversary is this year. I could talk endlessly about stuff like this and the games themselves, it's why I love them so much. Solid video, it's clear this type of style is new to you but you did well, extremely looking forward to the Last Bible video as I'd love to learn about them and see if they are worth trying out myself.
Ayy, pretty solid vid Marsh! Always nice to hear someone out in a way that even though it's a full-on review, it comes off as like round-table, friendly discussion. Also hella validating to hear your thoughts on the story. I missed the true neutral ending on my first run, but now that I'm on my second run, I'm just kinda bored now not just by traveling around all the places that look the same, but also just by everyone and their lack of a personality lol. I still think 4 and even 4A is peak SMT story-wise, so going from that to this is just kind of a bummer
Side thing, but I really wish we saw the Miman like working behind Gustave, moving his treasure around or adding to the pile, that would be really immersive
@@marmotagaming1124 Multiple playthings, attempting Demi-Fiend on different difficulties, fillng out the compendium, creating best version of the strong Demon’s you can get. Beating every quest every playthrough. The game is just a blast, hope there’s DLC and an expansion. Finally put the game down at 200hrs but I want to get back on and create better Demon’s to beat Demi-Fiend more efficiently on harder difficulties. Game is fun and Demi-Fiend is a lot of fun. Fun huge challenge.
@@GRiznitDShiznit The story was non existent The gameplay was good But the soundtrack is god tier , the piece that plays when you fight Ishtar is the best one in video game history
@@marmotagaming1124 For sure. Game is far from perfect but I feel like if SMTV was that good for a “bad SMT” it really makes me excited for what a good SMT will potentially look like for SMTVI. Really hope they do some DLC / Expansions because I’m still addicted to it, I just ran out of things to do.
@@GRiznitDShiznit IMO the game is way more replayable than almost all past smt games, while nocturne I consider replaying it I never find the urge to play SMT4 again for example. Even with lackluster parts in the story SMTV delivers the most balanced gameplay by far
Great video as always Marsh. It speaks to your talent as a writer that you managed to keep my undivided attention throughout the whole 30 minutes, which is honestly rare for me when I watch review content like this. You handled the change in format very well. And while I like the walkthrough experience type videos, I wouldn't mind watching more reviews if they're gonna be of this quality. Good shit! Also, obligatory comment: "didn't this guy give smt if a b grade"
I saw a meme that perfectly describes my thoughts & feelings about SMTV: "SMTV gameplay" - a pic of super smart Patrick Star in a lab coat looking at something through a microscope "SMTV story" - a pic of Patrick Star with a piece of wood nailed on his head
Hell Marsh, how can you be this good at making videos? I love all of them, and actually your SMT 1 video helped me a lot in my own playthrough. I loved this review, and although I love all smt games, even apocalypse, I do agree with the points that you made
I think the level advantage system absolutely shits on the game's combat. The fact that you know that it's not skill, but an arbitrary amount of time spent in the game that determines the difficulty level of a fight is absolutely TERRIBLE
True, but I felt that the game doesn’t incentivize grinding. The only way to reliably level up is to do quests and beat bosses. Overworld fights don’t give enough exp if you hit a wall. That’s why I decided to go into NG+ because I couldn’t beat Shiva at lvl 88 and I already did all other side quests.
@@chrisdaughen5257 It doesn't until you have to beat shiva before the pathetic alignment lock, good luck grinding to level 80 (which is pathetically low against shiva) without any mitama
The story was goofy as shit but I won’t pretend I didn’t enjoy it. It’s genuinely funny to think about how some of the coolest cutscenes in the game had next to no plot relevance, if not disappointing. My man cumhail comes out of nowhere with a badass introduction, sporting some of the coolest attack animations I’ve ever seen and an awesome boss theme and when the battle is won he’s just a fucking dunce who mistook me for an enemy.
Still haven't finished the game yet, but to me it kind of feels like each of the game's four areas has the loose framework of a story that could drive an entire game on their own if properly fleshed out, but they just aren't. -Stranded in an apocalyptic world filled with demons and having to reunite with your friends -Protecting the "real world" from demons that have entered from the destroyed world, seeking human hosts to gain power -Fighting in a war between the forces of angels and demons -Getting in the middle of a battle for the throne of a dead God between deities of multiple factions. Maybe they could have tied all these threads together, but they probably should have just stuck with one or two of them. I'd say probably drop the "fake real world" angle since they did little with it outside the second arc and either just focus on the battle for the throne of heaven, maybe have some branching alignment choices like deciding who you take out first or form alliances with to drive the conflict forward, or if they really wanted the Nahabino thing to be important have the Gods seeking out human hosts and flesh out the main cast that way.
I played through the whole game with my girlfriend. The moment Dazai took off his hat and made this evil grin, we both have burst into laughter. The story was just ridiculous, and not even for a moment did we really think about which side we should take, just how to get the secret ending. None of the character's motivation hooked us to even make us sligthly sympathize with them. This is unlike Nocturne, where I sympathized with Chiaki, only abandoning her reason when she commited genocide against Manikin (at which point I just went 'fuck that, I'm gonna destroy the whole world with Lucifer), meanwhile my girlfriend decided that Shijima sounds great and liked the fact that not once was Hikawa dependent on the player to achieve his goal (with the exception of the final moment, but every Reason needed the Demi-Fiend to bring it before Kagutsuchi). The only intriguing part of SMT V lore was discussing whether or not it could be a sequel to True Demon Ending, other than that, there was nothing of substance. Even the alignment choices were thrown in just for the heck of it, never having any substantial influence. You could just go all chaos choices for the whole game, yet at the end, because only a single choice matters which you make in the last half an hour of gameplay, you can just decide that actually, law sounds great. Are you serious? What happened to the complex system from SMT IV, where every dialogue choice mattered in the long run? Heck, even Nocturne which didn't have alignment system threw multiple questions at you, scattered throughout the game to decide what ending you will go through (unless you decided to fuck it all and complete Labyrinth of Amala). At some point, we just started ignoring the story and focused on combat and demon fusion, because at least that was still excelent. It just makes me sad in the long run, seeing how that part of the story I loved the most in those games, that being the conflict between philosophies and ideologies, was pretty much axed completely in this entry.
@@LordIvul for many fans - myself included- SJ has the best story, intense atmosphere and the alignment is on completely new level that can legit make you stop for minutes to think which to choose. The only negative is it’s on a handheld, i imagine it’s difficult to engage / share with others while playing.
I feel the main problem with this game is atlus trying to force megaten into the mainstream with this game (and is working to an extent) because persona got so popular with five. I mean I’d like for smt to be more popular but I want it too keep what made me fall in love with the franchise in the first place. But don’t mince my words here I adore this game is one of my new favorites but I can still see the issues the game has. Another thing of note this is the first time an smt had no real story involvement from Koneko (pretty sure I spelt that wrong) because 4a was still based off of the second half of the story he wrote for 4 and I don’t count the strange journey remake because most of the game is still SJ and that awful redux dungeon to get the new endings is optional to beat the game. There’s probably a similar issue with 5 that 4a had and that was the generational difference between the new and veteran developers and one both sides wanting the story to be a certain way (I don’t know this for sure don’t hold me to this statement). But overall I still love this game and Marsh thanks for this review I think it’s a nice change of pace compared to your typical content.
This is why I don't care for too many modern games. Producers and companies sacrifice deep story plot and complex world fiction for easy to digest themes that can drag net a large audience and fancy visuals to distract you from the paper thin environment and simplistic mapping that makes sure you never need to worry about getting lost or losing your way through the game world. I hope they don't do the same for Persona 6 when it comes out.
What surprises me most, is that SMTV seems to take a lot of inspiration from NieR: Automata for its atmosphere and environments, as well as the bombastic elements in the soundtrack. Surprising, because NieR initially reminded me most of SMT in terms of story and build-up, wearing some if its inspiration on its sleave.
Man every time I heard a new track in this game from battle themes to area songs I was blown away. I feel like SMT music isn't as popular or renowned as it should be but I had a blast discovering each new area and seeing more and more battle animations :D
Gosh, do want to check this out but I do need to finish the game before watching this (thanks for the warning, though it is to be expected with your reviews). Thanks for all the hardwork you've done on this channel. No joke have watched all your vids 5-6 times and then rewatched them with my wife and she loved them as well. Keep up the great work!
You did a good job! Encapsulated a lot of what I felt about the game from both design and story. After finishing it, I had the mighty need to go replay nocturne (chronicles edition), and somehow the battles in that one flow faster than in V and Chiaki's reason scene still hits hard this many years out. It really feels like they lack the philosophical and psychological depth to really tackle the themes that the series has previously been very bold about addressing. It might be due to increased marketing pressure since they aren't a funky offshoot developer anymore, but owned by Sega after a previous restructuring and scandal as Index Corp.
Someone once said SMT5 is trying so hard to be an SMT game that it forgot to be an SMT game. That is to say, it exists to further the stereotype of SMT games
Your review convinces me that I haven't lost my mind. Was very hard to find any content on RUclips that brought up most of the gripes I personally had with the game. Not a bad game. The combat was excellent but the game's world design and busy work wore out its welcome for me. If I play this game again it would be to zip through the game on NG+.
This is my first SMT game besides Persona. Gotta say I love the world of Da'at and the battles. But even though I haven't played the other SMT's, I was pretty let down by every NPC besides Dazai. I just started 3 Nocturne and already am more enamored by the world of it than 5.
I agree, the whole game played it extremely safe to the point of being uncreative. I keep seeing that the same writer(s) that worked on games like SMT IV A and TMS worked on this game, and you'd think that with a track record like that they wouldn't touch more games but here we are.
I really liked this review, it's definitely one of the better reviews I've seen. You bring up good criticism but you still manage to keep the charm of the way you talk about things. It'd be a lie if I said that I agreed with everything you said, but the arguments you used to back your opinions up were understandable and some even made me rethink some of my own opinions because you brought up things I haven't really thought about before. Overall this was a great review and another banger video, though it feels a bit weird to see you talk about a new game. Also small side note about the voices of the gods they sound incredibly goofy in English. They're a bit better in Japanese, at least in my opinion, so if you haven't heard their Japanese voices that might be worth checking out. Incredible video as always and I will now return to my cave and wait until you release your next video
Haven't finished the game yet and I'm not going to watch this review until I do. Just letting you know that I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on the game ^^
Even though you say reviews aren’t your strength, you did a really good job! Your points were clear and organized in a well flowing manner. While I enjoyed the game a lot more than you did (and that could be a result of this being my first exposure to the series), you articulated your issues very well and I could understand where you were coming from as a hardcore fan. I also really have to commend you for not just giving the story a free pass because apparently “SMT games aren’t about story.” Whatever that means. You certainly can craft an engaging narrative that focuses on concepts and world rather than characters. The story for me was ok, and I actually thought Sahori’s death scene was pretty metal lol. But I actually started watching your experience videos in the midst of playing through the game and thought “man, now I really want SMTV’s gameplay with *this* kind of narrative.” I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought everyone being so nonchalant about the events felt a little odd. I guess it creates a neat contrast at least, as in some of these characters’ eyes it *is* just another Tuesday. But I’d have at least liked to see the protagonist react accordingly, instead of just being a bland vessel for the player (although at least his design is peak). The only point where I really disagree regards how you felt about the save system. Every demon I ran into was a tense life or death situation and being caught off guard could easily cause me to lose a decent chunk of progress. I’d rather not add the stress of finding a place to save to a game that doesn’t feature auto saving. 😂 But that’s definitely down to personal preference I think.
Agree with all your points. The story was definitely weak, and it’s not helped by having superboss Shiva make the Lucifer fight feel extremely dull. SMT 5 tried to do a similar story to Nocturne, but completely botched the execution. The alignment reps in Nocturne had you actually think about what choice to make and consider the other options, and that’s even if you’re completely committed to True Demon Ending. SMT 5’s reps weren’t quite clear on their choices early on nor were you considering which alignment to support while you played a vast majority of the game. A simple story can work even in 2022 but it has to be memorable.
This stuff is amazing I think you should probably do both a your experience through the game like a playthrough description like you normally do and this review style mechanic description more often.
Am I the only one who found SMT V to be a bit too easy? A lot of other SMT youtubers said it was a harder game but I had a pretty breezy time with bosses after the first few. I did use Artemis, who I will admit is a very strong dlc demon, but there are some you unlock through sidequests that are even more gamebreaking.
The main game was easy (I don't own any of the demon DLC save the Nocturne one) but Shiva turned my ovaries into underies, I am definitely just going to run it back on NG+ with him should I ever do another run
I found it difficult but a lot of the difficulty was “artificial” if that makes any sense. In the other games fights feel difficult because you need to come up with a strategy and team build to fit each battle but in V the only difficulty came from how spongey the bosses felt and the limited MP
How do people ever find 5’s bosses spongey? (Well, except the superbosses.) They felt too squishy if anything, even on a weaker mag build. What i would call cheap are the stupid endgame bosses spamming piercing severe attacks forcing you to use a herald on your team. OR they’d never do it once. They weren’t hard but just annoying and random.
@@Username-de8tt ????? I do agree that most of smt5 requires no strategy, but in the sense that it’s too easy. I seriously can’t understand sponge boss complaints, feeling like we’re playing completely different games. Up to lahmu? Sure i can buy it. But even they didn’t feel « cheap ». Heck, i MUCH preferred when i had to deal with the « spongey »bosses and the mp management hell, they felt like real challenges, and despite what you say, required far more strategising than anything. Past the level 40 range, it was just a boring routine of : max buffs/debuffs+(crit aura)wrath tempest/murakumo/(impaler’s)figment slash That never failed against ANY boss outside of the superbosses.
Dustin Johnson Honestly yes. Between Magatsuhi Turns being super predictable and bossess not being able to use their Race specific skills, most bosses only having 2 Turns (Seriously, Chernobog, a Mid-Boss gets 4 but Lucifer, the Final Boss just gets 2), Magatsuhi Critical, Adversity and Accursed Poison (Accursed Poison shuts down most bossess so hard it's not even funny) being so busted, and boss AI being actually pretty bad (Ishtar really shows this when she's got 8 Turns and is pretty dumb).
This was my first SMT game and it's honestly blown me away. Between this experience and seeing your SMT1 video recently, I feel I've got a lot to look forward to with this franchise. I didn't necessarily agree with everything in this video but I enjoyed it and look forward to seeing how my perception may change with more experience. Combat's pretty much the thing that was wholeheartedly my jam. Like I did think there were some chunky HP bars but it got me to think through the combat beyond weakness exploitation. I found myself caring more for buffs, charge/concentrate related spells, crit and whatnot than I would've otherwise. At times I felt like with enough setup I could still shred through HP bars but other times I'd struggle to outlast someone. I think there's room for both here and I like that. I also disagree about the level gap for similar reasons. I'd be 10 below some fights but coordinating my party often made retries much more successful. I have a feeling this may change though. I think dampners are fine but combined with spyglasses they're a little too cheese (hence me not using the latter on anything that wasn't a miitama) I adored the exploration though by the time I got to Taito the lack of variety did get to me too. And those dungeons were such a clear step down from the wide open appeal and I wish there was at least some more depth to them to compensate. Miiman gave me the same sort of satisfaction a Korok did in BotW. I love your ideas for completion on it and just using Gustave more. I'd say I both agree and disagree on the story. There's a lot more that should've been done with these characters and it can feel pretty rushed. I'd defend some instances though. Miyazu's sidequest has some cool tie ins and philosophy to it that I think it's only weakness is the lack of voicing. Plus it's kind of comical how many unvoiced lines she has that even changes throughout the plot despite her just staying in Fairy Village. Atsuta is pretty lame. I thought it was cool how he'd already known about D'aat but dude just follows Koshimizu without interjecting much of his own values or background. I actually really like Dazai's arc in concept but they bum rush it's conclusion so hard. His heel turn is logical and I love how they become fallen in pursuit of establishing order. But that one cutscene is way too quick of a change. Sorry if this came off as dismissive of your review. I just realized I hadn't talked to anyone about the game and your thoughts just sparked sake of my own. This review was fun and it's cool to see a more seasoned perspective here.
Its feels odd to hear people say smt 5 was rushed. The game was announced all the way back in 2017 and i feel its safe to assume it was being worked on in some way at the time. You would think a game with that much time in the oven should be fully cooked, but it still came out a bit raw.
Great video! it was nice to hear the opinion of someone who played almost every game from the franchise. Based on what you metioned on the video, for me it seems that persona success has put quite a lot pressure on the smt devs, considering that a lot of elements from the newer persona games are somewhat present on SMT V, that lack of commitment to where the story and the characters should head is quite apparent.
Another Marsh W For real though almost everything you said in this video, criticisms and praises were almost exactly what I thought about the game. Can't wait to see all your other projects this year
I haven't played SMTV but still watched the video since I'm not planning on buying it anyway. I think you did a fine job, especially for your first ever review! I wouldn't mind seeing more of this kind of content, perhaps covering some of the newer SMT games that don't require as much of an in-depth look as the old ones since a lot more people have played them. It would be interesting to hear your opinions on them. I agree with you re: story in SMT. It's so weird when people claim that story isn't important in SMT games, or even that SMT games don't have a story at all. It's a shame because it means that they either don't understand or don't care to experience the type of storytelling that SMT games employ, which I think is a shame.
Honestly I pretty much understand and mostly agree with all your points. Some stuff I don't agree with but still fully understand. This was honestly I really well written review and surprisingly kept your style intact, it's your first it's not perfect but it's pretty damn good. Anyway miman spin off when
True Neutral ending is borderline psychotic with you genociding all demons after getting to know and bonding with them. None of the endings in this game is well-done at all. Felt like they just had to make Ichiro and Abdiel look comically evil to add more "nuance" to the different factions.
I don't think abdiel and dazai's demenor was meant as a deliberate attempt to make law look more evil, but instead I think it was an attempt to subvert series convention by having a law rep that was "dark" and "edgy," compared to someone like zelenin or johnathan. Besides, it's not like dazai post-hat scene or abdiel after she becomes fallen actually do anything evil. You can see them doing this with the other characters, too. The stoic, patriotic yuzuru is the chaos rep, and the intense, borderline murderous yakumo is the neutral rep. With better writing, I think it would have been interesting.
Thank you for the wonderful review, Marsh! Totally agree with what you have mentioned. I really like the combat and fusion system. I really like the map guide feature. but I wish I could be rewarded with better stories between the fights and explorations.. Like Nocturne makes me seriously think about the rights and wrongs for each alignment.. but in SMTV the two kids just kept saying 'we must protect Tokyo' 'we must protect Tokyo'.. Neither the law nor the chaos hero explained anything about their motives. They suddenly become super zealotic at the end and are even willing to kill each other, but I never really know what is special in the world they wanted to create. I even feel like I can go any route without them because they did not provide any assistance or enlightenment at all...
Dazai wanted to be told what to do. He had no faith in himself, because his whole life was being driven by his 'audience.' When that was gone, and he was thrust into a weird world of demons being real, he was scared and looked to the strongest to lead. He saw Angels and God as the strongest, thus he finally found his footing when Abdiel accepted him. Yuzuru wanted to make his future with his own hands. He was smart, athletic and liked to delegate authority. The best should lead and nobody else. The only way to make that happen was to put everyone on an even playing field, thus releasing all knowledge to Gods, and going at it. Shohei is in love with a Demon, and yet feels that demons make humans weak and thus wants them eliminated. He wants a world of human potential, not demon potential. His father was killed because a demon exploited his weakness. Ie he took the demon in and it killed him. So now he hates demons, and hates himself, living only for tradition of the past and potential he's yet to see. What other motivation do you need?
@@buddylord3020 You could be right. I think yours are interesting explanations. But the game does not deliver these ideas very well. Yuzuru also wanted to protect his sister and other powerless people. He even felt guilty for teaching Dazai the demon summoning program. What motivated him to create a world where the weak struggles to survive (as described at the end of the chaos route after Lucifer’s fight)? Dazai wanted to be protected and guided. He thought Abdiel was a better leader than the PM. But that does not mean he could take the initiative and bare the responsibility of creation. In the game he was too unconfident to compete with Yuzuru for mooost of the time. The way he suddenly changed his personality near the end seemed too deliberately just make him qualified for the final fight. You could argue that maybe Yuzuru had a lot of pride for being the smartest kid at school, and Dazai changed his personality because he was so desperate after seeing Abdiel’s defeat. But installing new traits/personalities at the end of the game makes it looks like a rushed job. Their “motivations” and the way they are motivated are weird because their main personalities developed throughout the games are not accurately reflected. Shohei explained himself very well in the game. He was being consistent all the time and had just enough background story to support his motivation. So I think he is a well-written character even without the romance hypothesis.
@@lrrrrr_ I think it is all more complicated than that. Even though the Tokyo that they were in is fake, it is the only Tokyo that they know. That is their life. It is somewhat like the red and blue pill of The Matrix. Dazai wants to be put back in the machine, and yuzuru wants to run the machine. He wants to run it Because he believes only he can really protect what he loves. I do believe that the entire game was rushed, and would have been better on a stronger system. I think it needs three to four more zones and at least two more real Dungeon.
I think I would have liked SMT5 more if I hadn't played SMT4 before. Despite the large maps, SMT5 feels a lot emptier. Tokyo in SMT4 is really interesting. It felt like a Shadowrun-esque world and even if there were demons running rampant, there was a somewhat functional society there. One interesting thing I saw was that SMT5's background characters have almost blank faces as if they were part of simulated Tokyo.
EDIT: Already realized I messed something up - I explained the "passing" mechanic incorrectly, in other games it also consumes half a turn, however passing again would cause you to lose a press turn icon - in this game, the next turn is kept. My point still stands, but I didn't explain it clearly. You'll have to let me know how I did on this video, it's a special occasion since I received a review code for the game. Though it was fun, I'm not quite used to writing in this style and hope the quality doesn't suffer for it. It's great to see so many people talking about SMT V, and while I do have a lot of critiques for it, it was fun overall. Experience videos for SMT 2, Giten, and Last Bible are still coming, as usual.
Yeah, it's weird for you to play a game and not suffer. You didn't have to fight with an emulator, save states, or translation issues. If you're not in pain, it's not nearly as fun. I say the same thing about Civvie 11.
I really like your videos. Keep up the good work. Squeeze out a couple shorts if you get a chance. Your Jimenez one still makes me laugh at least once a week.
Hey marsh I just wanted to say thanks for making all of those videos about the devil story games. Since watching them I played through kyuuyaku to it’s entirely, and really enjoyed it. If it weren’t for you I would’ve just written off both games as Old and unplayable but I truly enjoyed them!
In past games, passing would make one turn icon flash and passing again would use the flashing icon. In this game, it looks like passing just converts each turn icon into a half turn icon.
I think you did great, Marsh. Your thoughts were precise & well explained. For a first time review it was good.
was an amazing review either way.
Holy shit, Marsh finally isn't reviewing a Japanese Exclusive game made in 1776 for the Romero SuperSquare
With a fan translation only available on the deep web
It's a Christmas miracle!
Oh no.
hE'S bEcOmiNG mAInStrEAm!
hE’S tOo muCh LiKe pErSoNA uGh
The Romero SuperSquare, lol.
That's the best thing I've read all day.
You mean Swoon Megami Tensei: Baka no Shine: & JAKKU FROSTO 3: Cockturne: THE ONLY GAME WITH A LAW BIAS Edition? It was released in 1776, but only in Hell, and for William RadRectangle.
You make him sound like a Sseth alternate personality or something
The fact he received a review code is pretty mind-blowing, atlus is out here supporting the smaller channels
Marsh shouldn't have a small channel. He's effectively the SMT Historian. We should all be passing his videos around and recommending people subscribe. I challenge everyone to get him at least one more subscriber this week.
Atlus gave this one channel that had like 2k subs a review code too
Marsh might not be the biggest SMT channel out there, but he is definitely the universally beloved one.
@@jimi1656 he and fither are the best ones
Atlus has always done that
This man has been forged in the crucible of a dozen SMT games; I respect no other's opinion more
Marsh was born in the primordial Megami Tensei soup
Marsh was born with demons by his side
Legends say his dad was Akemi Nakajima himself
Well he started on micom city on the 11th floor of daedalus tower for a reason
The single biggest missed opportunity in this game was the Bethel branches and their leaders. Here you have an SMT game where YHVH is officially dead and his throne of power is up for grabs, and you have all these massively powerful demons representing major religions and mythologies, only to have maybe one or two scenes with them and generic boss fights in the middle of nowhere. Characters like Zeus just hanging out stationary in a pile of rubble in the corner of area 4 waiting for you to kill them is such a letdown.
They should've cut all the Lahmu shit, made the second area about the disagreements and splintering of the Bethel factions, and have the third and fourth areas involve a war between them with your main cast taking inspiration from these branches to fulfill their own paths. You could even get a bunch of full-blown dungeons with Hinduist, Nordic, Egyptian, Greek themes and so on!
I could deal with completely separate zones to go into and have to conquer, but not dungeons. I get headaches just looking at the dungeons from Nocturne on YT etc.
@@buddylord3020 that’s fair
@@buddylord3020 Arioch's dungeon, F3 reversed 5 years of anger management therapy in 30 minutes. I don't want to see a dungeon ever again in my life. /j
yeah man why didnt they think of this
YESSS Lahmu was such an unecessary sidestep they could've forced character growth using a plot point or characters we actually have a reason to care about but no it felt so empty compared to SMT 4
I completely agree with it feeling like a "skeleton" of a story. I really liked some of the worldbuilding, the idea behind a Nahobino, and for once I actually empathised with each alignment to some degree, but once you dive even slightly into any of the character growth or the plot beats it starts to feel apart. I still personally loved the game regardless, and each of the routes feeling interesting to me gave me something to grab onto narratively, but I don't know what happened with the story overall.
Its crazy how much I felt for Jonathan and his reasoning in smt4's law route compared to how much I hate everything law is represented as in smt V. It also feels weird that the compendium descriptions use the nine alignment system but nothing else is done with that anywhere as far as I ever noticed.
Really? I actually felt like SMT V was one of the more sympathetic portrayals of law in the entire series. Bethel was more focused on protecting the human world from demons than brainwashing or killing people. The biggest problem was that it was pretty vague about what the law route in V actually entails besides a brief description at the end.
@@firstnamelastname7244 I would say the main issue with 5's law is that its NOT actually law at all.Law has always been about destroying one's free will in exchange for not having to worry about your own issues,or essentially to conform.5 treats law as this "WE JUST WANNA HELP AND SAVE HUMANITY" faction when even the noblest of law heroes,look at Jonathan,understand that law is anything but.
As a lawfag,it's the equivalent of the game saying "you guys are the heroes now :D" when law was never about being a hero.
The worst part is it has the best ending despite being so dumb. Chaos gets the shaft hard and true neutral is somehow worse than regular neutral. Dazai is a bad character but he's also the one who is the most correct and has the most screentime. Just awful.
I agree with everything. I love having an open SMT world and they started off good, but adding a few dungeons in there would break up the monotony and homogeneous feeling of all of the areas. They really did start to feel samey with different color filters. I guess they spent a lot of time learning how to make the open world function and then quickly did the story at the end. Hopefully they don't give up on this format and just improve it for the next game (or fix it with dlc ig). All in all I still love this game a lot and am on a 3rd playthrough.
Also this review was great and I hope you consider making another review in the future!
I think they’ll stick with it looking at how well the sales have been. Hopes are the same I have for BotW2: more of the same, just crafted to perfection.
Atlus and DLC should not be friends
You know what'd been cool? If they did more with the Nahobino stuff. I wanted more fights with humanoid Nahobinos, but all we got was Tsukoyomi.
I KNOW RIGHT!? Nahobinos, for being the game's main plot gimmick, are very underutilized.
There are also nahobino forms of abdiel and nuwa, but in addition to tsukuyomi, that's still.....3
@@johnnyheli doesn’t lahmu go nahobino before we kill it
I completely agree with the alignment lock part, i mean, it has its problems, like if you want an specific ending you may need a guide (specially for neutral, and specially in SMT IV with those sidequest) but man it feels a lot more rewarding than a screen that literally says "choose your ending", when i played IV for the first time I felt fulfilled when after the alignment lock i saw Stephen in the white forest and i inmediatly knew i ended up in the neutral route.
Agree, they should copy SJ alignment system, is the best in series. Not only Esences and some demons (Demeter, Zeus, Amon ...)
@@nr2676 I think a hybrid between SMT IV's and Strange Journey's alignment systems would be real nice. As someone who hates Neutral with a passion and, as a result, never had any problem with reaching my desired ending(s) in Shin Megami Tensei IV, I absolutely adore the story and dialog choices you get in that game. They feel natural and organic, like actual decisions you would have to make as a person living in that world, instead of (mostly - I know there are exceptions) picking very obvious lines before a boss in SJ that pretty much always boil down to "demons are cool", "demons are awful" and "whatever, humans for the win". On the other hand, Strange Journey has a very good gameplay implementation of your character's alignment, affecting - but not restricting, unlike in older SMT games - both your party efficency in battle and recruitment options. So if there was a game that combined narrative strength of SMT IV and the way SJ reflects your alignment in terms of mechanics, that would be awesome.
I agree that Sahori's death was goofy but it's definitely not the goofiest scene when we got Dazai going full Vergil at the end.
Dazai pushing his hair back and putting on a generic anime sneer is the reason i ended up going chaos my first run. What a waste of a character.
@@xacmashe3852what characters? They didn't have any
When you get a new video notification from Marsh, you just know its gonna be another certified hood classic 🤝🏿💯
I like what I "think" is the idea for the reps.
Dazai is a self doubting guy with good intentions but no drive, so when he's given a purpose greater than himself he slowly becomes more radicalized.
Yuzuru wants to protect his home and family so he goes all in on finding what on paper is a good to do that without thinking of the ramifications of a multitude of gods ruling things.
And Yakumo is an interesting choice for a neutral rep since while he could be have been all "humanity and middle ground for the win" he himself only cares for certain human lives and his rather unshakable from these views.
The problem is the only one with any visible development is Dazai and that's rushed. Yakumo is fun as a flat character and a maybe meta jab at the just kill both sides motif for most neutral routes, but other than that?
...Nuwa's hot, I guess.
Oh, and Yuzuru is there.
The strangest chaos rep.
the chaos route is weird specifically cuz, like, tsukuyomi/yuzuru's goal ISN'T chaos. they just want a democratized order instead of the authoritarian one god had. it's just that somehow everyone in the game except for him & yuzuru know that's not what's going to happen. it's weird that 5's two opposites are "guy who wants law/order" and "guy who wants law/order but the exact opposite will happen instead because he's oblivious"
@@guerolondon It's chaos because think of how a world where Politicians are gods, Super politicians
Imagine if WW3 happened between these gods, they won't give a shit they could fuck the entire world in seconds, we know how the gods from Smt would solve most problems with destruction and war and they don't give a fuck about humanity, maybe Tsukoyomi, but you really think that Zeus would hold down to crush anyone in the way of his fight? What about Shiva planning to destroy the entire universe in Everyone's back?
Chaos basically would lead to humans being opressed by a bunch of gods war
@@neoonewingedren1836 i understand WHY it would be chaotic, that's not the point. i'm saying that tsukuyomi & yuzuru genuinely believed that a world ruled by gods would be more orderly/democratic. the point of these endings is these are the ideals of the respective characters made into reality, for better & worse. most chaos routes explicitly want chaos and acknowledge that people will be hurt by it. that's not what yuzuru or tsukuyomi wanted - their expectation was it would stabilize the human world if all of the gods had a voice in worldly matters. so the chaos route doesn't represent yuzuru or tsukuyomi's wish for chaos, it represents their naivete that LEADS to chaos. the law ending is exactly what the law characters wanted; the (true) neutral ending is exactly what the neutral characters wanted. the chaos ending isn't what tsukuyomi or yuzuru wanted, at all. that's the issue, it's incongruent with the other routes
@@guerolondon guess they tried to subvert expectatives by making the law guys look like chaos
The neutral guys look like chaos
And the chaos guys look like neutral
But in the end It was a mess because Nuwa and Yakumo have the same amount of screentime as Dante in Nocturne lol and Yuzuru it's like those avatar self insert jrpg characters but instead of being a player he is suposed to be a character
@@guerolondon I think thats why i really like it, its a lot more interesting than just pure might makes right if you die you werent strong enough, it was a really fresh take on the ideals that lead to chaos. It's imo better than like SJs original Chaos ending where its rep was hypocritical (that interestingly its New Chaos ending helped to fix and made more sense in context of what was actually happening)
Marsh reviewing a recent smt game was the last thing I was expecting
I think my feelings are mostly the same. Perfectly fine with the combat, even with the wacky level damage scaling and dampeners. But the story was pretty underwhelming. I think the biggest problem is that NOTHING interesting happens. Sure, people hated IV Apocalypse's story, but at least the idea of fighting a pantheon of gods, who turn a giant sunflower snake into an egg to recreate the universe, is pretty exciting. V just doesn't have that "cool" factor that the previous stories had. I just hope the rushed story is down to growing pains caused by the switch to Unreal Engine.
Im one of the rare people who liked Apocalypse's story. Sure, its not one of the best. But it was better than 4 imho.
@@childofcascadiaI haven't beaten it yet, still going through base 4, strange journey, 3 nocturne, and now 5 vengeance. However, I do really like what world building it has in the beginning, and also how it feels like an alternate route in a resident evil game. The fact when you pick your name the older cadet dude who was ragging on you for being lazy, actually shows a softer side and disdains that they called an orphan "no name", and says he'll make sure everyone calls you that. For what short time he's present it makes Adramelechs horseshit somewhat impactful and sting a bit. Like damn, guess I'm still no name.
Weird to see them cling so hard to the world of Nocturne when that was literally its weakest element. Not the setting mind, it's a cool place to think about, but while playing it's mostly demons without much going on. I liked IV because, despite the gameplay changes, it made a point to have a much more interesting world that felt inhabited. The most distinguishing element about V is that it does no one thing uniquely well. Regardless, great work here. Very insightful.
I agree with everything you've said and imo you were being charitable, I've had more problems than you had with the game, namely a severe lack of enemy variety within some areas, really awful HP scaling of demons, poorly balanced spread of elemental demons across the compendium, complete abscence of worthwhile endgame ( there are like TWO end-game bosses and zero secret dungeons/areas), severely lacking final stretch ( come on, it was a corridor with some loot and two lame bosses whom you could punk in two turns if you were on your Secret Ending playthrough), and the worst crime of all - NO PUZZLE BOY! No puzzles period!
But overall I'm glad it came out - I love seeing SMT mainline in 3D and it's really gorgeous, great animations for skills and some awesome gameplay improvements with few rough spots. Hopefully they'll make good use of these assets and experience and announce some SMT spin-off, be it a new series or a sequel to Raidou/DeSu/DDS or even a sequel a la SMT 4 Apocalypse.
I thought Da'at was super cool. Yeah there was sand/snow and busted buildings in every area, but they all had their own vibe and it was fun to explore. I wouldn't mind more diversity though. The story was lackluster, but everything else about SMT V is my favorite in the mainline series.
It was boring
@@XyZolda
You’re boring, too.
@@NotThatUser cry
I personally like SMT V a lot more than most reviews seem to, since a lot of the critiques just don't matter as much to me, but I 100% think the level scaling in combat and story in general should've been better. It was definitely rushed and we will get a Maniax or Apocalypse version like with every other SMT game, but I'm not confident it'll be able to solve a lot of the story's problems
Well the thing about Apocalypse os that ot was originally meant to be a refinement of 4 when it later became a sequel instead. And to me, that's why the story in Apocalypse is divisive, but the gameplay is generally considered to be top notch. It's because gameplay literally came before story in it's development. And I feel something similar happened to 5, where they tried to perfect the gameplay with the story being second priority in development. Personally, I think if they made a sequel (or preferably a prequel for me) came out with the explicit intent of crafting a good story, it would make for a near perfect MegTen expereince.
SMT5 could focus on another character and be another retelling I wouldn’t mind that
@@n64central Hopefully maybe delving more on Miyazu, because I feel like she was the most underused character of the "main cast"
@@liamkqn miyazu has potentially the most compelling story for me personally too if it was actually explored and not just a little sidequest
Not gonna lie, in terms of the characters, i feel like i'm more attached to characters that was literally called CHAOS Hero and LAW Hero in SMT 1 way more than any of the characters in SMT V. I still really enjoy the game, the gameplay definitely hard carried the whole game for me.
I am absolutely shocked on how close your review of the game was to my impressions of it, I guess I can point any of my friends in the direction of this video if they want my opinion on SMTV well done as always looking forward to the next videos!
Say what you want about the two, I loved SMT IV and Apocalypse's demon voice acting, especially like Lucifer and YHVH. The voice mixing in SMT V was just... weird. Especially comparing say Metatron's fires of sinai from Nocturne or the Remaster compared to SMT V's god awful voice equivalent.
I agree with the whole Axiom ballbusting thing they’ve been doing lately to some of the games ever since Nocturne came out.
It’s like, hey man, let me enjoy the moment. Stop with existential looping crisis for once.
Despite how fun the game is gameplay wise, the balance kinda falls apart for me after a while but this is probably an issue for the minority who expected a lot more coming from the near perfect combat system of Apocalypse.
It's so strange to see this release as just "OK" for an SMT game, when it took soooo much development time.
It's personally my fav mainline for the gameplay alone
Everything but story was the best in the series (IV soundtrack is still the peak too)
@@neoonewingedren1836 i think the gameplay is way worse than 4 and all changes they made are negatives imo.
@@gv2212 In my opinion the gameplay it's entirely better and all changes were positive
it was announced a long time ago but id guess was developed in about 2 years.
@@neoonewingedren1836 I agree with V having the best gameplay, Apocalypse being the only contender for it's combat (but I can't stand that game for other reasons). I didn't play SMTV expecting a good story so I wasn't dissapointed by that, but ironically I kind of understand where "pErSoNa wItHoUt tHe hEaRt" came from, as V lacks a certain substance that III, IV and SJ have imo. I played this one more as a monster collecting game.
The only big thing I disagree with is that I really enjoyed the demon king's temple. It has a few really good moments towards the end that expanded on the spatial reasoning that Nocturne liked to capitalize on. The final dungeon was just... kinda baffling with how terrible it was. I kept thinking some crazy puzzle was about to happen with the time stop mechanics but it just never happened. Given how quick it was from the first trailer to release, I can't help but wonder if it was rushed - there are a lot of aspects of the game that feel unfinished. Really I'm just glad to hear someone else comment on the godawful voice filter - it wasn't too unbearable in IV when most of the voiced dialogue came from humans, but demons do a lot more talking in V and it gets insanely grating and completely ruins the solid work of the VAs. Good shit as always m8, looking forward to the next videos.
I believe V hit a hard DevHell issue and I've seen people say they even changed directors midway through(which may explain why V is so bare bones)
I liked the final dungeon, reminded me of SMT1's dungeons in a good way. I feel like having more of that - straightforward, flat layouts, less open-ended design that doesn't just let you teleport to a save point and rush for the next one bypassing everything, a puzzle element (although with actual challenging puzzles) - would've made for some pretty fun gameplay to break up the open world monotony.
The time stop gimmick wasn't used well, but I could see it being great in a better designed dungeon - make the player figure out a route through a larger grid of rooms, let them map out parts of the dungeon in time-stopped state while requiring the time to be unstopped to progress, maybe have some chests or keys only available in one of the two states so that eg. you need to unstop time to open the door, then stop it again to grab the item.
As for the Demon King's castle, verticality kind of sucks in this game - the map is awful at depicting height (it's kind of color coded, except when it isn't), so much of the game relies on figuring out a way to get up (or, in the third area, *back* up) that it gets stale, and Nahobino isn't exactly the most mobile video game character. So while I liked that dungeon just fine in retrospect, having to do more jumping and platforming after coming from an entire area of figuring out the right way to get up there was just immensely frustrating.
The demon king castles wind puzzles almost made me quit the game. It was so frustrating. I also hate puzzles where literal waiting is a mechanic.
You're far from alone; I miss having actual dungeons too. As cool as the idea of open-world SMT is, it can never match the feeling of genuine triumph that comes from conquering a massive, cruel, sprawling shit pit and kicking the shit out of whatever boss is insane enough to call this place his home. Da'at doesn't have that feeling, in my opinion.
I feel like after the SMT4 changes Atlus became lost because they were split between making 5 into a traditional smt, Nocturne, and the more modern stuff, Persona and the DS titles.
I feel like they had a lot of issues regarding pandemic, fans pressure for news, Nintendo wanting them to show something and optimizing for Switch while adapting to UE4
They lacked planning with V, they should had made something like a new IP testing UE4 before jumping to a mainline Smt and holded such an ambitious game to the next Nintendo console which will probably be stronger and easier to optimize
I love how the law and chaos reps just die when you beat them, no pre death speech they just drop dead.
I love how auto-caption thought the video is Vietnamese and outputted complete English gibberish.
People really underestimate (or just don't really have a handle on) what SMT accomplished story-wise and character-wise in the past. There's a reason why Chaos Hero has so much amazing fanart, his story and his gradual transformation resonated with people. Compare that with Dazai who barely shows up, then pulls an Aizen and does a 180 in the span of a minute or so.
I'd argue that if Dazai is bad, then Yuzuru is even worse as he quite literally BARELY appears. Like, it was to the point I actually didn't even think he was the chaos rep(I originally thought it was Nuwa and Yakumo who were due to certain dialogue)
You had a deeper connection with Charlie, a guy only really memorable for eternally holding his nuts, than ANY of the characters in SMT 5.
That speaks volumes.
The dude you play the counting game with in strange journey has more character in his left ballsack than most of SMT V's main cast lmao
@@firstnamelastname7244 Oh man. I just played that counting game a few days ago. It's embarrassing that I had to look up a guide. Thanks for the laugh.
But yes, he's still a better character than the Nahobino. He's the blankest of blank slates. He's not even dry toast. Toast can be warm and crunchy. He's bread. A slice of flavorless bread. I wish we had some more actual protagonists in SMT. Are there any in SMT besides Vincent in Catherine?
@@100Servings I can think of a few examples of Megaten media with MCs with actual dialogue.
(1) This is going to sound a bit troll-ish but bear with me, Itsuki from Tokyo Mirage Sessions. Since he is a pretty normal dude this isn't the best example so onto the next one.
(2) ALL of the MCs of the Devil Children games, Setsuna, Mirai, Masaki, Jin and Akira. Yeah, the sub-series aimed at a younger audience is the one with MCs that are not Blank Slates for the players (It also helps that the Devil Children games are not always sunshine and rainbows.)
And (3) this might be a bit of an odd example, and that its adaptations of already existing material with Blank Slate MCs, and giving them actual dialogue. Biggest example I can think of is Raidou Kuzunoha from the spin-offs of the same name, in the manga Raidou Kuzunoha VS The Lone Marebito.
@@rock117rx2 I'm not familiar with the Devil Children games, but I have seen some of the anime. Itsuki is a named and voiced protag though, so you're right. He's just the most boring person to ever exist. Raidoh SHOULD be a character, but even he's a blank slate really. Gatto is really the main character in that series.
You made some good points, and it's not being a troll to answer a legitimate question. Thanks!
@@100Servings Again, the Raidou VS The Lone Marebito manga exists if you want to see the Protector Of The Capital have actual dialogue.
As for the Devil Children MCs, here is my summary of them. Jin is a classic Shounen Hero, Akira is a more subdued version of the cool Shounen Rival. Mirai is a spunky go-getter girl...
And Setsuna is a bit of a weird case as he is different within versions... In the 1st Devil Children anime, he is also a Shounen Hero like Jin. But one that is far more Played For Laughs.
But in the game and the manga, he is a rather traumatised kid who just wants to protect his loved ones after his mom passed away from an illness. With the main difference being that in the manga he is A LOT more brutal in his fights.
Like, have you noticed how the Demi-Fiend in fanarts. Whenever he is depicted fighting... He is shown just pummeling his foes with his bare fists while just powering through whatever wounds he gets during the fight?
THAT'S how Setsuna fights in the manga! He ain't the son of the Morning Star himself for nothing!
I think this video was a total blast to watch. Definitely very different from the usual videos you produce but I think it’s a nice change of pace. You also present very good points, both pros and cons are delivered very well to the viewer and I can definitely agree with most of these points.
Great video! I like it a lot!
coming back to this after Vengeance is kinda funny because you noting that boss fights seems to drag on reminds me of watching a video of one of the new Vengeance superbosses taking like 20 minutes to kill when the dude had like 999 stats on his entire party. Like what in the actual fuck
My biggest issue with the secret ending is the fact that the side quests you need to do to unlock it aside from the Shiva fight all involve demons swearing loyalty to you or you helping their situation just for you to turn around and nuke them all. I initially thought it would have you turn the demons human since demons would always be able to overpower regular people, and I thought the "logical" solution was to make them like us... not kill all your new friends and for some reason have them be cool with that!?
yo wtf that's a genius idea. Fuck it, I'm accepting this as the new canon True Neutral ending. You remake the world and turn all the demons into humans so you can hang out with all your friends in a peaceful world
For me, once I realized none of my choices mattered till the end, it totally ruined the game for me honestly. It made me feel like I wasted my time sitting there, considering my choices because honestly I sat there and did. The story was a snore fest and really the only thing I enjoyed was the combat. When I saw so many people praising this game and saying that all SMT games have to be like this from now on, I just really didn't get how anyone came to that conclusion but that's just my own feeling on it.
I don't really know why everyone is complaining so much about "choices not mattering." It does suck, but aside from DeSu, I can't really think of a megaten game where your choices do matter before the alignment lock. As for the rest of what you said, I don't see anyone saying all SMT games should be like this, unless they mean gameplay wise, because most people agree that the story kinda sucks. I love this game, but I can understand your opinion, since if you're the kind of person who needs a good story to get invested in a game, SMT V doesn't have much to offer you.
This is how it's always been though. I can't think of a single megaten game where your choices actually matter until the ending lock. I agree that it's a really shitty way of handling choices in a game, but it's not like this is something new. Atlus really wants megaten to be this game of moral choices, but they're too scared/lazy to make the choices (ha) they need to make
Honestly if the next mainline game has the exploration, overworld and battle mechanics as good as SMT V with the alignment system of SMT 4 or Strange Journey and a story that's at least as compelling as Strange Journey we'd have the perfect SMT game on our hands. But for now I'd like to chalk up SMT V to an experiment with new hardware, a germ of a good idea with its story but a tad undercooked. I'd still recommend it as an introduction to the series but not as strongly as I would Strange Journey or SMT 3. Also just get rid of the Mitama demons as free EXP and skill point dispensers they can break the game in half even without the DLC. Oh and the DLC can just go too, starting to smell a bit like Todd Howard over here with the three Demon's DLC, not as bad as the horse armor but it's up there.
Thank you Marsh for all your work with Shin Megami Tensei games.
Solid review Marsh, thank you so much for all you do!
Can't agree with exploration. While I would have liked more variety, it still kept me engaged and had me looking through every nook and cranny. (Dungeons sucked though) I think something can be said for lvl design that makes open exploration feel natural and pretty fun.
You have to remember for SMT 5 unlike games like nocturne, theres not that much risk physically walking back to the save point, it simply wastes your time going back and forth. I personally find teleporting back better then saving on the sport like other recent games, where theres at least the pain of getting back where you were as a punishment. While light, it was often enough keep me going without teleporting back.
I played hard, and encounters for much of the game didn't need assistance in the tense department .
Definitely understand your perspective as well, i've enjoyed talking to people about the exploration side of the game
Da’at was pretty boring lmao
Honestly the teleportation saves a lot of time and a lot of potential frustration or boredom, especially with huge areas like Da'at.
@@Scizzor113 agreed
@@kyyourneutralisminekiske7104 I was talking to a friend after he beat hydra and he was saying how much he hated having to run back every time he wanted to save/fuse/shop. Then he walked ten steps forward and got the teleport and was like "Oh, never mind this game's great".
I was admittedly had a lot of reservations about the open world since I'm not a fan of many of the AAA open world games, but I ended up really enjoying it. I get the point of all the areas being too similar, and while I do think they could've been more differing, I still enjoyed the different areas because the layouts still felt different, and I still had a ton of fun exploring the worlds, since there was always stuff in every nook and cranny, so there's always something to find. The story is pretty lame though, it feels like they had a lot of ideas that they just didn't put enough time into, like they planted the seeds, but never watered them. I personally love the games atmosphere and gameplay, and was very happy with this game. I was personally able to tolerate the plot simply because I think other aspects make up for it, but I totally understand how it can be a deal breaker for others. So overall not my favorite mainline game, (still goes to nocturne) I still enjoyed it thouroughly, and enjoyed your take on it
Glad to hear other people felt the world was as bland as me. I've played other open world games and not only is V lacking in unique environments, but moving around the world is mind-numbing due to no real movement options; just running and stiff jumping.
It also annoys me when people say story doesn't matter when SMT4 exists. Having the characters follow you and seeing how they develop and drift apart was great. Not to mention the factions in the story actually interacted and you got to talk to tons of NPCs that were stuck in the middle of it all.
This game tried so hard to be the next Nocturne, but it lacks the main thing it's praised for: Reasons. Instead we got probably the worst Law/Chaos story in the series. I got Yakumo's ending and I honestly thought it was the chaos ending due to how it was written.
Overall it's a good game, but compared to any other mainline game it comes up short in pretty much every category.
The stories of SMT are so cool, not because of characters, but because they're atmosphere and philosophical quandries are so naturally written and explored that it creates this beautiful rhythm and harmony unlike most traditional narratives. Take Walter and Johnathan, they're not super interesting, but the way these characters work within the story of SMT IV is really good. They add layers to the world, ideologies, and plot, and aren't so boring that it breaks my immersion. Character in SMT represent these perspectives that drive the gameplay and story beyond who they are as people, and that's the best part for me. The stories are like 1984 or stanley kubrick films, you're there for this exploration of ideas and a bizarre world with a deep atmosphere.
I honestly really really liked this game, even with the admittedly half-baked story. The combat was fun, I enjoyed the customization of both my party members and the main character, and I loved all the side quests. The music was also a high-point, and one of my favorite soundtracks in the series.
I will admit that playing strange journey after smt v really opened my eyes to how much more the story and characters could have been, and I wish that the realism from the characters in nocturne made it over to v. Overall though, I had a very fun time with the game, so i cant give it less than an 8/10
While I understand and even agree with some points, I see this entry in a much brighter light(not 9 or 10 out of 10 levels but more so 8). Talking to other people I've kind of accepted I'm gonna be the weirdo that likes the story because while I do also feel it's undercooked in many areas I think there are some interesting details here and there to think about but my opinion might radically change in a year. Combat is tight and the fusion systems continue to keep getting better with each entry, making the strongest demons is so satisfying but things should have probably been toned down (frequency of essences and items lessened for example). Exploration I'm split on, I love the music and how it shifts as you progress through an area, the layout of the fourth zone is clever as it just throws you in surrounded by strong foes, leaving you a bit disorientated at the start. Exploration can be really comfy but I wish there was a balance between dungeons and open worlds, less sand and more surprises with the larger foes.
SMT V is from my perspective, a similar situation as IV was when it came out, there is no strong community consensuses. You have people who love it, hate it or strongly on the fence and I'm curious where the needle will go in years time. I doubt it will be beloved as IV turned out to be, maybe it will forever be in flux. The biggest thing to come out of V though is that we finally have an SMT game on console again and in turn all of these 3D demons and assets, my dream is Atlus is do what they did after Nocturne; make a bunch of spin offs using those assets and exploring ideas in both narrative and gameplay. Like what if got a new Devil Summoner with another Kuzunoha or hell, a remake of SMT 1 as the 30th anniversary is this year. I could talk endlessly about stuff like this and the games themselves, it's why I love them so much.
Solid video, it's clear this type of style is new to you but you did well, extremely looking forward to the Last Bible video as I'd love to learn about them and see if they are worth trying out myself.
Ayy, pretty solid vid Marsh! Always nice to hear someone out in a way that even though it's a full-on review, it comes off as like round-table, friendly discussion. Also hella validating to hear your thoughts on the story. I missed the true neutral ending on my first run, but now that I'm on my second run, I'm just kinda bored now not just by traveling around all the places that look the same, but also just by everyone and their lack of a personality lol. I still think 4 and even 4A is peak SMT story-wise, so going from that to this is just kind of a bummer
Side thing, but I really wish we saw the Miman like working behind Gustave, moving his treasure around or adding to the pile, that would be really immersive
I put 200hrs into this game and I plan on playing more at some point. Game is good asf.
Wtf are you doing in 200 hours?
@@marmotagaming1124 Multiple playthings, attempting Demi-Fiend on different difficulties, fillng out the compendium, creating best version of the strong Demon’s you can get. Beating every quest every playthrough.
The game is just a blast, hope there’s DLC and an expansion. Finally put the game down at 200hrs but I want to get back on and create better Demon’s to beat Demi-Fiend more efficiently on harder difficulties. Game is fun and Demi-Fiend is a lot of fun. Fun huge challenge.
@@GRiznitDShiznit The story was non existent
The gameplay was good
But the soundtrack is god tier , the piece that plays when you fight Ishtar is the best one in video game history
@@marmotagaming1124 For sure. Game is far from perfect but I feel like if SMTV was that good for a “bad SMT” it really makes me excited for what a good SMT will potentially look like for SMTVI.
Really hope they do some DLC / Expansions because I’m still addicted to it, I just ran out of things to do.
@@GRiznitDShiznit IMO the game is way more replayable than almost all past smt games, while nocturne I consider replaying it I never find the urge to play SMT4 again for example. Even with lackluster parts in the story SMTV delivers the most balanced gameplay by far
Anyone saying Nocturne doesn't have a good story is out of their mind man
Great video as always Marsh. It speaks to your talent as a writer that you managed to keep my undivided attention throughout the whole 30 minutes, which is honestly rare for me when I watch review content like this. You handled the change in format very well. And while I like the walkthrough experience type videos, I wouldn't mind watching more reviews if they're gonna be of this quality. Good shit!
Also, obligatory comment: "didn't this guy give smt if a b grade"
I saw a meme that perfectly describes my thoughts & feelings about SMTV:
"SMTV gameplay" - a pic of super smart Patrick Star in a lab coat looking at something through a microscope
"SMTV story" - a pic of Patrick Star with a piece of wood nailed on his head
Hell Marsh, how can you be this good at making videos? I love all of them, and actually your SMT 1 video helped me a lot in my own playthrough. I loved this review, and although I love all smt games, even apocalypse, I do agree with the points that you made
I think the level advantage system absolutely shits on the game's combat. The fact that you know that it's not skill, but an arbitrary amount of time spent in the game that determines the difficulty level of a fight is absolutely TERRIBLE
True, but I felt that the game doesn’t incentivize grinding. The only way to reliably level up is to do quests and beat bosses. Overworld fights don’t give enough exp if you hit a wall. That’s why I decided to go into NG+ because I couldn’t beat Shiva at lvl 88 and I already did all other side quests.
@@chrisdaughen5257 It doesn't until you have to beat shiva before the pathetic alignment lock, good luck grinding to level 80 (which is pathetically low against shiva) without any mitama
@@Kyfow You need to beat Shiva before the alignment lock to get True Neutral? I could still go back and fight him after fighting Abdiel.
@@chrisdaughen5257 That's what I heard, did you get the true neutral after that?
@@Kyfow Still in NG+ at the moment.
The story was goofy as shit but I won’t pretend I didn’t enjoy it. It’s genuinely funny to think about how some of the coolest cutscenes in the game had next to no plot relevance, if not disappointing. My man cumhail comes out of nowhere with a badass introduction, sporting some of the coolest attack animations I’ve ever seen and an awesome boss theme and when the battle is won he’s just a fucking dunce who mistook me for an enemy.
Still haven't finished the game yet, but to me it kind of feels like each of the game's four areas has the loose framework of a story that could drive an entire game on their own if properly fleshed out, but they just aren't.
-Stranded in an apocalyptic world filled with demons and having to reunite with your friends
-Protecting the "real world" from demons that have entered from the destroyed world, seeking human hosts to gain power
-Fighting in a war between the forces of angels and demons
-Getting in the middle of a battle for the throne of a dead God between deities of multiple factions.
Maybe they could have tied all these threads together, but they probably should have just stuck with one or two of them. I'd say probably drop the "fake real world" angle since they did little with it outside the second arc and either just focus on the battle for the throne of heaven, maybe have some branching alignment choices like deciding who you take out first or form alliances with to drive the conflict forward, or if they really wanted the Nahabino thing to be important have the Gods seeking out human hosts and flesh out the main cast that way.
This is the best SMTV review i have ever seen
always stoked to see a new video from you
Thanks for all the MT content you make Marsh. I don't have a lot of friends who are interested in the series so its nice to see so much love for it.
I played through the whole game with my girlfriend. The moment Dazai took off his hat and made this evil grin, we both have burst into laughter. The story was just ridiculous, and not even for a moment did we really think about which side we should take, just how to get the secret ending. None of the character's motivation hooked us to even make us sligthly sympathize with them. This is unlike Nocturne, where I sympathized with Chiaki, only abandoning her reason when she commited genocide against Manikin (at which point I just went 'fuck that, I'm gonna destroy the whole world with Lucifer), meanwhile my girlfriend decided that Shijima sounds great and liked the fact that not once was Hikawa dependent on the player to achieve his goal (with the exception of the final moment, but every Reason needed the Demi-Fiend to bring it before Kagutsuchi). The only intriguing part of SMT V lore was discussing whether or not it could be a sequel to True Demon Ending, other than that, there was nothing of substance. Even the alignment choices were thrown in just for the heck of it, never having any substantial influence. You could just go all chaos choices for the whole game, yet at the end, because only a single choice matters which you make in the last half an hour of gameplay, you can just decide that actually, law sounds great. Are you serious? What happened to the complex system from SMT IV, where every dialogue choice mattered in the long run? Heck, even Nocturne which didn't have alignment system threw multiple questions at you, scattered throughout the game to decide what ending you will go through (unless you decided to fuck it all and complete Labyrinth of Amala). At some point, we just started ignoring the story and focused on combat and demon fusion, because at least that was still excelent. It just makes me sad in the long run, seeing how that part of the story I loved the most in those games, that being the conflict between philosophies and ideologies, was pretty much axed completely in this entry.
Just curious… have you played Strange Journey - OG or Redux -?
@@DarkJ1425 not yet, but it's on the bucket list, since I finally purchased it before Eshop semi-closure
@@LordIvul for many fans - myself included- SJ has the best story, intense atmosphere and the alignment is on completely new level that can legit make you stop for minutes to think which to choose.
The only negative is it’s on a handheld, i imagine it’s difficult to engage / share with others while playing.
I feel the main problem with this game is atlus trying to force megaten into the mainstream with this game (and is working to an extent) because persona got so popular with five. I mean I’d like for smt to be more popular but I want it too keep what made me fall in love with the franchise in the first place. But don’t mince my words here I adore this game is one of my new favorites but I can still see the issues the game has. Another thing of note this is the first time an smt had no real story involvement from Koneko (pretty sure I spelt that wrong) because 4a was still based off of the second half of the story he wrote for 4 and I don’t count the strange journey remake because most of the game is still SJ and that awful redux dungeon to get the new endings is optional to beat the game. There’s probably a similar issue with 5 that 4a had and that was the generational difference between the new and veteran developers and one both sides wanting the story to be a certain way (I don’t know this for sure don’t hold me to this statement). But overall I still love this game and Marsh thanks for this review I think it’s a nice change of pace compared to your typical content.
Jesus, that Apocalypse comment at the end really got me praying for the writers for the next SMT
This is why I don't care for too many modern games. Producers and companies sacrifice deep story plot and complex world fiction for easy to digest themes that can drag net a large audience and fancy visuals to distract you from the paper thin environment and simplistic mapping that makes sure you never need to worry about getting lost or losing your way through the game world.
I hope they don't do the same for Persona 6 when it comes out.
Oh boy they better not... fans will riot otherwise
I hope they make it just a linear corridor, persona player's deserve the worst games only
What surprises me most, is that SMTV seems to take a lot of inspiration from NieR: Automata for its atmosphere and environments, as well as the bombastic elements in the soundtrack. Surprising, because NieR initially reminded me most of SMT in terms of story and build-up, wearing some if its inspiration on its sleave.
26:34 was actually just the emo Peter Parker moment from Spider-Man 3
Honestly, despite this games clear flaws, I still love it to death.
Then again, smt Iv apocalypse is my favorite mainline game, so what do I know
Man every time I heard a new track in this game from battle themes to area songs I was blown away. I feel like SMT music isn't as popular or renowned as it should be but I had a blast discovering each new area and seeing more and more battle animations :D
honestly one of my favorite smt games with overclocked, strange journey redux, nocturne, and apocalypse.
Gosh, do want to check this out but I do need to finish the game before watching this (thanks for the warning, though it is to be expected with your reviews).
Thanks for all the hardwork you've done on this channel. No joke have watched all your vids 5-6 times and then rewatched them with my wife and she loved them as well. Keep up the great work!
You did a good job! Encapsulated a lot of what I felt about the game from both design and story. After finishing it, I had the mighty need to go replay nocturne (chronicles edition), and somehow the battles in that one flow faster than in V and Chiaki's reason scene still hits hard this many years out. It really feels like they lack the philosophical and psychological depth to really tackle the themes that the series has previously been very bold about addressing. It might be due to increased marketing pressure since they aren't a funky offshoot developer anymore, but owned by Sega after a previous restructuring and scandal as Index Corp.
Someone once said SMT5 is trying so hard to be an SMT game that it forgot to be an SMT game. That is to say, it exists to further the stereotype of SMT games
Your review convinces me that I haven't lost my mind. Was very hard to find any content on RUclips that brought up most of the gripes I personally had with the game.
Not a bad game. The combat was excellent but the game's world design and busy work wore out its welcome for me. If I play this game again it would be to zip through the game on NG+.
This is my first SMT game besides Persona. Gotta say I love the world of Da'at and the battles. But even though I haven't played the other SMT's, I was pretty let down by every NPC besides Dazai. I just started 3 Nocturne and already am more enamored by the world of it than 5.
I agree, the whole game played it extremely safe to the point of being uncreative.
I keep seeing that the same writer(s) that worked on games like SMT IV A and TMS worked on this game, and you'd think that with a track record like that they wouldn't touch more games but here we are.
Wonder what happened then because at least 4 and 4A were entertaining in terms of the plot
you know this is a legitimate shin megami tensei review bc of the mic quality
love you marsh
I really liked this review, it's definitely one of the better reviews I've seen.
You bring up good criticism but you still manage to keep the charm of the way you talk about things. It'd be a lie if I said that I agreed with everything you said, but the arguments you used to back your opinions up were understandable and some even made me rethink some of my own opinions because you brought up things I haven't really thought about before.
Overall this was a great review and another banger video, though it feels a bit weird to see you talk about a new game.
Also small side note about the voices of the gods they sound incredibly goofy in English. They're a bit better in Japanese, at least in my opinion, so if you haven't heard their Japanese voices that might be worth checking out.
Incredible video as always and I will now return to my cave and wait until you release your next video
Haven't finished the game yet and I'm not going to watch this review until I do.
Just letting you know that I'm very excited to hear your thoughts on the game ^^
Since the press turn gameplay has been pretty much perfected at this point, lets hope that smt 6 focus on improving the exploration and story.
Thoughts on the Megami Tensei II fan translation?
It looks decent from the screenshots I've seen, I'd like to do another playthrough of the game soon using it though. Have you had any issues with it?
@@MarshSMT Haven't even tried it yet,. I just found out about it.
Even though you say reviews aren’t your strength, you did a really good job! Your points were clear and organized in a well flowing manner. While I enjoyed the game a lot more than you did (and that could be a result of this being my first exposure to the series), you articulated your issues very well and I could understand where you were coming from as a hardcore fan.
I also really have to commend you for not just giving the story a free pass because apparently “SMT games aren’t about story.” Whatever that means. You certainly can craft an engaging narrative that focuses on concepts and world rather than characters.
The story for me was ok, and I actually thought Sahori’s death scene was pretty metal lol. But I actually started watching your experience videos in the midst of playing through the game and thought “man, now I really want SMTV’s gameplay with *this* kind of narrative.” I’m glad I’m not the only one who thought everyone being so nonchalant about the events felt a little odd. I guess it creates a neat contrast at least, as in some of these characters’ eyes it *is* just another Tuesday. But I’d have at least liked to see the protagonist react accordingly, instead of just being a bland vessel for the player (although at least his design is peak).
The only point where I really disagree regards how you felt about the save system. Every demon I ran into was a tense life or death situation and being caught off guard could easily cause me to lose a decent chunk of progress. I’d rather not add the stress of finding a place to save to a game that doesn’t feature auto saving. 😂 But that’s definitely down to personal preference I think.
Very astute and comprehensible analysis. 👍
Yo, i totally agree with you on all those points.
Great informative video!
Great video and hard agree on basically the entire narrative section of the video
ITS BEEN A MONTH MAN IM FIENDING FOR THAT EXPERIENCE VIDEO
After finally beating Shiva I can actually watch this
Agree with all your points. The story was definitely weak, and it’s not helped by having superboss Shiva make the Lucifer fight feel extremely dull. SMT 5 tried to do a similar story to Nocturne, but completely botched the execution. The alignment reps in Nocturne had you actually think about what choice to make and consider the other options, and that’s even if you’re completely committed to True Demon Ending. SMT 5’s reps weren’t quite clear on their choices early on nor were you considering which alignment to support while you played a vast majority of the game. A simple story can work even in 2022 but it has to be memorable.
This stuff is amazing I think you should probably do both a your experience through the game like a playthrough description like you normally do and this review style mechanic description more often.
Am I the only one who found SMT V to be a bit too easy? A lot of other SMT youtubers said it was a harder game but I had a pretty breezy time with bosses after the first few. I did use Artemis, who I will admit is a very strong dlc demon, but there are some you unlock through sidequests that are even more gamebreaking.
The main game was easy (I don't own any of the demon DLC save the Nocturne one) but Shiva turned my ovaries into underies, I am definitely just going to run it back on NG+ with him should I ever do another run
I found it difficult but a lot of the difficulty was “artificial” if that makes any sense. In the other games fights feel difficult because you need to come up with a strategy and team build to fit each battle but in V the only difficulty came from how spongey the bosses felt and the limited MP
How do people ever find 5’s bosses spongey? (Well, except the superbosses.)
They felt too squishy if anything, even on a weaker mag build.
What i would call cheap are the stupid endgame bosses spamming piercing severe attacks forcing you to use a herald on your team. OR they’d never do it once. They weren’t hard but just annoying and random.
@@Username-de8tt ?????
I do agree that most of smt5 requires no strategy, but in the sense that it’s too easy. I seriously can’t understand sponge boss complaints, feeling like we’re playing completely different games.
Up to lahmu? Sure i can buy it. But even they didn’t feel « cheap ».
Heck, i MUCH preferred when i had to deal with the « spongey »bosses and the mp management hell, they felt like real challenges, and despite what you say, required far more strategising than anything. Past the level 40 range, it was just a boring routine of : max buffs/debuffs+(crit aura)wrath tempest/murakumo/(impaler’s)figment slash
That never failed against ANY boss outside of the superbosses.
Dustin Johnson Honestly yes. Between Magatsuhi Turns being super predictable and bossess not being able to use their Race specific skills, most bosses only having 2 Turns (Seriously, Chernobog, a Mid-Boss gets 4 but Lucifer, the Final Boss just gets 2), Magatsuhi Critical, Adversity and Accursed Poison (Accursed Poison shuts down most bossess so hard it's not even funny) being so busted, and boss AI being actually pretty bad (Ishtar really shows this when she's got 8 Turns and is pretty dumb).
This was my first SMT game and it's honestly blown me away. Between this experience and seeing your SMT1 video recently, I feel I've got a lot to look forward to with this franchise. I didn't necessarily agree with everything in this video but I enjoyed it and look forward to seeing how my perception may change with more experience.
Combat's pretty much the thing that was wholeheartedly my jam. Like I did think there were some chunky HP bars but it got me to think through the combat beyond weakness exploitation. I found myself caring more for buffs, charge/concentrate related spells, crit and whatnot than I would've otherwise. At times I felt like with enough setup I could still shred through HP bars but other times I'd struggle to outlast someone. I think there's room for both here and I like that. I also disagree about the level gap for similar reasons. I'd be 10 below some fights but coordinating my party often made retries much more successful. I have a feeling this may change though. I think dampners are fine but combined with spyglasses they're a little too cheese (hence me not using the latter on anything that wasn't a miitama)
I adored the exploration though by the time I got to Taito the lack of variety did get to me too. And those dungeons were such a clear step down from the wide open appeal and I wish there was at least some more depth to them to compensate. Miiman gave me the same sort of satisfaction a Korok did in BotW. I love your ideas for completion on it and just using Gustave more.
I'd say I both agree and disagree on the story. There's a lot more that should've been done with these characters and it can feel pretty rushed. I'd defend some instances though. Miyazu's sidequest has some cool tie ins and philosophy to it that I think it's only weakness is the lack of voicing. Plus it's kind of comical how many unvoiced lines she has that even changes throughout the plot despite her just staying in Fairy Village.
Atsuta is pretty lame. I thought it was cool how he'd already known about D'aat but dude just follows Koshimizu without interjecting much of his own values or background.
I actually really like Dazai's arc in concept but they bum rush it's conclusion so hard. His heel turn is logical and I love how they become fallen in pursuit of establishing order. But that one cutscene is way too quick of a change.
Sorry if this came off as dismissive of your review. I just realized I hadn't talked to anyone about the game and your thoughts just sparked sake of my own. This review was fun and it's cool to see a more seasoned perspective here.
Watched this before but I still love the delivery of “he pulls out a new plot device from his ass”
Sensational video, Marsh.
Its feels odd to hear people say smt 5 was rushed. The game was announced all the way back in 2017 and i feel its safe to assume it was being worked on in some way at the time. You would think a game with that much time in the oven should be fully cooked, but it still came out a bit raw.
It has been stated development properly started in like 2018 or early 2019
@@jouheikisaragi6075 i actually did not know that thanks for the info
@@IBSTER200 it was honestly a red flag in retrospect
It was their first game in UE4 and they had to optimize in Switch trash hardware with the fans pressuring for news
Great video! it was nice to hear the opinion of someone who played almost every game from the franchise. Based on what you metioned on the video, for me it seems that persona success has put quite a lot pressure on the smt devs, considering that a lot of elements from the newer persona games are somewhat present on SMT V, that lack of commitment to where the story and the characters should head is quite apparent.
I waited to not spoil myself. Now I can dive into this video
Nice Video Marsh
Another Marsh W
For real though almost everything you said in this video, criticisms and praises were almost exactly what I thought about the game. Can't wait to see all your other projects this year
I haven't played SMTV but still watched the video since I'm not planning on buying it anyway. I think you did a fine job, especially for your first ever review! I wouldn't mind seeing more of this kind of content, perhaps covering some of the newer SMT games that don't require as much of an in-depth look as the old ones since a lot more people have played them. It would be interesting to hear your opinions on them.
I agree with you re: story in SMT. It's so weird when people claim that story isn't important in SMT games, or even that SMT games don't have a story at all. It's a shame because it means that they either don't understand or don't care to experience the type of storytelling that SMT games employ, which I think is a shame.
Honestly I pretty much understand and mostly agree with all your points. Some stuff I don't agree with but still fully understand.
This was honestly I really well written review and surprisingly kept your style intact, it's your first it's not perfect but it's pretty damn good.
Anyway miman spin off when
I haven't been able to pick up the game but I love your videos a lot. I just came by to leave a like and leave so I don't get spoiled.
True Neutral ending is borderline psychotic with you genociding all demons after getting to know and bonding with them. None of the endings in this game is well-done at all. Felt like they just had to make Ichiro and Abdiel look comically evil to add more "nuance" to the different factions.
I don't think abdiel and dazai's demenor was meant as a deliberate attempt to make law look more evil, but instead I think it was an attempt to subvert series convention by having a law rep that was "dark" and "edgy," compared to someone like zelenin or johnathan. Besides, it's not like dazai post-hat scene or abdiel after she becomes fallen actually do anything evil. You can see them doing this with the other characters, too. The stoic, patriotic yuzuru is the chaos rep, and the intense, borderline murderous yakumo is the neutral rep. With better writing, I think it would have been interesting.
@@firstnamelastname7244 Decent concept trash execution so it really doesn't matter in the end.
Maaaaarrrshh I need another experience video on anything PLEASE.
Thank you for the wonderful review, Marsh! Totally agree with what you have mentioned.
I really like the combat and fusion system. I really like the map guide feature. but I wish I could be rewarded with better stories between the fights and explorations..
Like Nocturne makes me seriously think about the rights and wrongs for each alignment.. but in SMTV the two kids just kept saying 'we must protect Tokyo' 'we must protect Tokyo'..
Neither the law nor the chaos hero explained anything about their motives. They suddenly become super zealotic at the end and are even willing to kill each other, but I never really know what is special in the world they wanted to create. I even feel like I can go any route without them because they did not provide any assistance or enlightenment at all...
Dazai wanted to be told what to do. He had no faith in himself, because his whole life was being driven by his 'audience.' When that was gone, and he was thrust into a weird world of demons being real, he was scared and looked to the strongest to lead. He saw Angels and God as the strongest, thus he finally found his footing when Abdiel accepted him.
Yuzuru wanted to make his future with his own hands. He was smart, athletic and liked to delegate authority. The best should lead and nobody else. The only way to make that happen was to put everyone on an even playing field, thus releasing all knowledge to Gods, and going at it.
Shohei is in love with a Demon, and yet feels that demons make humans weak and thus wants them eliminated. He wants a world of human potential, not demon potential. His father was killed because a demon exploited his weakness. Ie he took the demon in and it killed him. So now he hates demons, and hates himself, living only for tradition of the past and potential he's yet to see.
What other motivation do you need?
@@buddylord3020 You could be right. I think yours are interesting explanations. But the game does not deliver these ideas very well.
Yuzuru also wanted to protect his sister and other powerless people. He even felt guilty for teaching Dazai the demon summoning program. What motivated him to create a world where the weak struggles to survive (as described at the end of the chaos route after Lucifer’s fight)?
Dazai wanted to be protected and guided. He thought Abdiel was a better leader than the PM. But that does not mean he could take the initiative and bare the responsibility of creation. In the game he was too unconfident to compete with Yuzuru for mooost of the time. The way he suddenly changed his personality near the end seemed too deliberately just make him qualified for the final fight.
You could argue that maybe Yuzuru had a lot of pride for being the smartest kid at school, and Dazai changed his personality because he was so desperate after seeing Abdiel’s defeat. But installing new traits/personalities at the end of the game makes it looks like a rushed job. Their “motivations” and the way they are motivated are weird because their main personalities developed throughout the games are not accurately reflected.
Shohei explained himself very well in the game. He was being consistent all the time and had just enough background story to support his motivation. So I think he is a well-written character even without the romance hypothesis.
@@lrrrrr_ I think it is all more complicated than that. Even though the Tokyo that they were in is fake, it is the only Tokyo that they know. That is their life. It is somewhat like the red and blue pill of The Matrix. Dazai wants to be put back in the machine, and yuzuru wants to run the machine. He wants to run it Because he believes only he can really protect what he loves. I do believe that the entire game was rushed, and would have been better on a stronger system. I think it needs three to four more zones and at least two more real Dungeon.
I think I would have liked SMT5 more if I hadn't played SMT4 before. Despite the large maps, SMT5 feels a lot emptier. Tokyo in SMT4 is really interesting. It felt like a Shadowrun-esque world and even if there were demons running rampant, there was a somewhat functional society there.
One interesting thing I saw was that SMT5's background characters have almost blank faces as if they were part of simulated Tokyo.