I think one of the reason I love Dropped frames over so many other podcast is how they professionally talk about the pros/cons, current struggles, issues, etc of streaming and twitch. I like that it's not JUST games, it's everyone's life, twitch/streaming, and gaming.
I wonder why youtube never show me one of these shows you are talking about. Before this show i watched TB, Dodger and Jesse. Could you recommend another podcasts?
I wouldn't worry about price increases because as we have seen the market corrects itself and cheaper games overwhelmingly outsell overpriced games. Just look at the success of helldiver's as a recent example
We need to increase the cost of a game by 66% (60--> 100) if this is the plan from the industry we're quickly approaching current gen gaming being impossible for minimum wage folks in the US being able to get a game a month let alone outside the country. Jericho's statement was braindead out of touch, probably doesn't even know the cost of a banana lol
@@balance00wow i love how you say that but games have been 60 dollars since what, 2005? just by pure inflation alone 60 dollars in 2005 is like 95 dollars today. let alone other rising costs of employment and tech and bigger teams etc. "its so out of touch" as for 20 years the 60 dollars price tag hasnt changed.
I regretted every game I purchased for over 60 USD, just because nothing in it felt like it justified the price. A long game doesn't justify a higher price point.
Everytime some exec claims we should be paying more for their games, I hope someone would remind them that they dont ship complete games anymore and if they expect us to pay more then they better get back to shipping finished games that don't need 10 plus oatches in the first month.
In some ways, video gaming pricing should be and kinda is like movie theatre pricing. The studios don't set how much a film is shown for. It is for studios to make films that will attract enough viewers to be profitable. That means balancing the development budget with the expectations audience revenue.
"If a ton more resources are put into a project it should cost more" uh, no. The movie industry is one of the most successful, prolific art/entertainment industries in human history, and they have in fact done *just fine* making people millionaires and studios making billions of dollars off of movies that cost, generally speaking, more or less the same amount. Movie budget =/= movie price. Trying to say games should be that way is just bowing down to money-hungry corporations that only care about their quarterly revenues going up and their annual salaries skyrocketing.
Dude, “should” is not a word they used 😂 no one should pay more, it’s a choice. Just don’t buy a game if it’s too expensive to you, pretty simple. Also they used GTA as an example not a marvel movie…
@@Mako2401 It doesn’t matter how much money you make dude. Just because you’re a millionaire doesn’t mean you can’t talk about pricing of things. I’m not a millionaire lol
@@failadin1 He’s not discussing finances all he’s saying is that it’s fair to pay more for a product that’s worth more 😂 Unbelievable how many people don’t see that… just shows how many unemployed and uneducated people are in the comments lol
Pricing games higher is kinda dumb in a market that is getting incredibly saturated to begin with, you start pricing games at 100 dollars you will see a lot of gaming companies die incredibly quickly
Games do NOT cost $60 currently. That’s the base entry point. But the REAL costs are in MTX, DLC, 4 Day Head Starts, Premium Editions, etc. Those are the norm. And the “games are expensive to make” narrative is a mainly a load of crap. Like any business, your budget is a choice. Your scope is a choice. If you don’t think you can make a game where your costs can be recovered and you can make a profit at a fair price point, then make a cheaper game. Gaming companies, like defense contractors, operate with staggering levels of inefficiency. If they needed more money to pay workers better wages and provide them with real job security, I’d pay more. But they don’t. Instead, they just want ALL of the money so that shareholders get more and more money. 1. Don’t pre-order games 2. Don’t let weaponized FOMO scam you out of your money 3. Wait for sales
Games are $70 currently. And they were $50 ini 2010. The price is far outstripping the rate of inflation. And people usually don't take into account that there is a much larger audience for video games than there were in the past. They don't have to physically produce them. They don't have to ship and distribute them. They don't have to handle physical refunds and returns. They don't have to deal with physical warehousing. They don't have to deal (on PC) with platform royalties like with consoles. So I really don't want to hear their bullshit. There are companies that are making killer games for a fraction of the cost and making killer returns. And they're selling games for $15, $20, $30, and $40.
Just a quick comment on Itsuno making DMC2. He was brought in to make the game shippable. It was a total disaster. DMC3 is the first DMC game he directed from start to finish and was widely regarded as saving the franchise. It is why he is beloved by DMC fans.
@@lilfuzzballa Of course, but sometimes its insane, when 30% of your pricetag is just consisting of you paying for the privilege of having the game shoved down your mouth.
@@bl00dleter Well you have to think how much more competitive the gaming market has become. Now in days if you don't drop a pretty penny on marketing, your game will very easily be forgotten about or even unheard of, since gamers are just flooded by adverts from thousands of different games trying to compete for our attention. Players will easily see an ad and go, "oh I should buy that when it comes out." But the next day they'll see an ad for an even more impressive looking game and all of a sudden want that game instead. There's so much competition that publishers need to constantly remind players of why their game is more worth your money and time. No matter what, us gamers are going to end up paying that cost through MTX, subscriptions, or $100 premium versions, or something. A lot of money and research has went into the effectiveness of video game ads, so they know it works, so it's not like the heavy spending on ads are pointless or just wasted. It's the hard truth. But also, people like you and I are plugged in to the gaming world. We consume video game things constantly. So we see the ads way more than the average person. But think about all the casual gamers or gamer parents that hardly see these ads. The casual gamers are the main ones they are trying to reach, so they need to put extra effort to get them to take notice.
I think something unique that was asked 'how can twitch monetize without ads?' This company is owned by Amazon and yet has so few connections between them that they are essentially underutilizing twitches reach. Why do they not build UI elements, not plugins, but full fledged UI that has quick links to items the user sees easily? So many people ask "what is your PC specs?" and "what equipment do you use?" All ads or links should be tailored to that type of content. Amazons sales of these items could easily be connected.
RUclips streaming is fantastic as a modern replacement for TiVo. When I was to watch an eSports tournament or something like that, it is great to be able to rewind, pause, replay etc. However, when engaging with individual content creators, Twitch is second to none.
I totally understand JP's explanation/complaint about Deadlock. Its like playing Guilty Gear but you have to play Chipp or Millia when you just want to play Sol or May.
I'm one of those long-term Twitch viewers and due to time constraints, the mobile app was my primary way of consuming content. The last UI update was the last straw, and I just refuse to use the mobile app. I went from viewing my favorite streamers for 1-2 hours per day to 1-2 hours per week, if that. I really do hope Twitch fixes their "push" campaign, because I love the platform and the streamers that call it home.
rich people asking "should games cost more?" when the grand majority of humans on the planet are at or below the poverty line is not a great look and those people using a large platform to expel such a corrosive take when the entire economy is based on short term line go up is actively harmful. "vote with your wallet" doesnt fucking work cohh, every "no" vote is not a no its an abstain from voting. the degree to which the average person has influence over their only options disproves the claim that if they just stopped spending money on their only options it would make things better. this is once again people posing the solution to a problem being to point a gun at the end of the assembly line and ignoring the factory churning it out
Soooo, your basically saying rich people have no say in how things should be priced 😂 It’s funny how you can tell when people don’t actually pay any attention to the video playing and comment as soon as they hear something they don’t like… no where did anyone say everyone should pay more for games. If you can’t afford it then don’t buy it, it’s pretty simple.
While games don't need to be cutting edge I think there is a base line due to the technology of the era. That base line has most likely increased the cost of development without really increasing the price of the product. I think games are sort of pushing an unnecessary limit to get miniscule improvements and it's multiplying the cost of creation especially when attempting to maximize the capabilities of the technology of the medium. FF7 Rebirth looks better than FF7 Remake but the improvement is basically unnecessary to me.
@@PickedaName_ I get what you’re saying in some aspects. But not every game is like that nor is every game changing their price to be higher. They gave a great example with GTA of how widely successful it is, and how much GTA 6 costs to make. GTA 6 could be the first and only game to have a base price tag above 60-70$. But maybe not, only time will tell and that’s all they really were talking about. No one said a game should cost more, they are just willing to pay more if it was worth it. Which absolutely makes sense.
I feel like it's hard to argue if games should cost more when games are STILL making hand over fist money for a lot of companies, singular game revenues fund multiple games still so why should we be making that money pile bigger? So instead of that the companies can make 2 games at the same time they can make 3? If the costs of making games are also so high, are they making enough effort to lowering costs? What about the fact that digital items don't depreciate? Witcher 3 and other games still get sold to this day, does that money not count towards the company bank account? I know people say that games are the only thing that haven't inflated in terms of price but they are also selling almost indefinitely at whatever price they're set as with almost no cost as Steam hosts the files and for single player games you literally don't need anything but the files delivered to you. There are too many questions that contribute to "games should cost more" that could hide the fact that it might just be a greed situation rather than a "we need to stay afloat" situation, from effort to revenue sources there is not enough information to go off of.
Funny enough, it's one of the few times I agree with Asmongold on something. He has the view of, games cost too much to make? Not our damm problem! We have our own problems, we work for our money. Companies just get given it by investors by just existing. Like look at how much EA make for Ultimate team each year? Billions. An they tried to charge more for the new star wars game. They don't need the money!
Man Jericho is out of touch, there is a massive amount of people that play cod mp, also rank is very popular. He's just burned out of it and that's fine, but really out of touch comments
BTW as an avid moba player, Deadlock is more in common with Super Monday Night Combat than Smite, Smite is probably the only 3rd person moba still successful on the market, but SMNC had much more fast paced, shooter based combat like Deadlock. Smite does allow aiming, but it's mainly with just ability skillshots, ADCs have to aim for all their basic attacks but it's mainly just about learning to get your projectile to hit and there's no y-axis. (Can't aim up or down) SMNC didn't have such a robust shop as Deadlock though, but fairly similar combat/laning. (A more fast paced, skill based shooter Moba basically)
@@Mauvias92 or if it launched with all content planned to be released. It could've launched as a movie with pvp but it's drip feeding content. It's 40 because of the entire package but they delivering it in separate boxes.
People play Deadlock and then say it's crazy that Valve is patching and experimenting rapidly. That's what you signed up for, it's not even close to a finished product, what were you expecting. That's why Valve didn't want it to go viral yet
JP seems like he has fun on all of these. I really appreciate when these come out as they are a nice break from reality! Also, no "use items from inventory" is why I quit Core Keeper for now. It's a great game, but I'm not dealing with that. Metal Gear Solid is "Tactical Espionage Action" it says it right on the cover of the first game.
The batman Arkham games have great stealth. It's not the most challenging thing in the world but they really balance making you feel like a powerful stealthy batman, but if you get caught by a dude with a gun you panic.
Games probably should cost more but I don't think many game companies could get away with it. I think there's a point when people just stop buying games.
99 bucks for a game? No. I’m already at the point I’m waiting for games to go on sale b4 I buy them. I want wu Kong and mana, but I’m waiting for them to be at least 10 bucks off. Too many games, to many subscriptions, to many microtransactons.
@2:27:39 Like the Fable lady my main question why is their a need to make a character look less appealing and then devs media people scoff at people who wonder why they made the video game (fantasized) version a real life person look less appealing. If their going to do that why not make the male/female characters start having messed up teeth, pimple scars, cross eyed, 5 heads, hair line so far back it looks like they were balding at the age of 10, and they better be 5'8 for males that are walking twigs that hunch their shoulders down forward walking like their Smegul, and 200 lbs females that have no chin but somehow have 3 chins. Why aren't those things in the game for my main character?
How do you gloss over Forever Winter because devs were pandering? That's a good thing. But then spend almost an hour on Ubislop a game everyone knew would be mediocre from the jump.
Remedy bought the Control IP back from Epic only recently, for just this reason. Honestly can't wait for Control show or movie to be something like X-Files, Fringe, Warehouse 13, Eureka...
A thing on the Blue Protocol. While it is being canceled by Bandai Namco. Tenncent are still developing the Chinese version that was supposed to be a mobile game and will now be mobile and PC there is a slim chance that Tenncent will take this as a chance to release it globally as well.
I just want a Spies vs Mercenaries multiplayer game again. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory version is superior to the Double Agent version but at this point, I'd take any version of it.
I did like the "hands down" talk intro 20ish min's very much, as those are things we (viewers) all see but rarely anyone talks openly about. Loving the guests lately, possibly even more PirateSoftware? Always great to have Dan, Jericho and Co. on the DF. Can't wait to hear back from Zeke!
As a viewer one of the biggest turn-offs on twitch is when it runs 2-5 minutes of ads when I first tune in before I can even see what the streamer is doing. I'm not going to sit around watching minutes of ads before I even know if I want to watch this streamer.
Deadlock is definitely harder to play and more sweaty than other moba. And I had played Dota, LoL and Apex. This game go full 100 at min 0 and it won’t stop, hell it gets even worse in late game. There is no down time, there is no afk farming for 10m. There is no stalling. You have to be sweaty all the time or you will get stomped. You go try it and you will understand what I meant.
If games are going to be priced more, they had better be COMPLETE games. No 50 patches later the game is playable and fun. No microtransactions. No gacha mechanics. A complete and finished game. Because we all know how the suits at the top will take this opportunity. They will increase the upfront cost, and keep all the other things inside still to make even more money.
I know being a star wars fan now a days is to be used to be happy for scraps but boy is this not it , its a cash grab a nice picture until it moves good god the faces ... the debate about irl Vs in game is dumb but that dont take away from the fact that your main character looks like a fish cosplaying a human. Telling people if you only get to the end it will be good and squint your eyes during cut-scenes to forget the fish face the game is ok ! people will rightfully play any of the other much beter games out there. Ps play swotors Smuggler story way beter then this.
Bums me out that Alan Wake 2 didn't really recoup its cost. I think being exclusive to Epic hurt it alot. I bought it cause I'm a Huge remedy fan and Finnish..almost a national requirement for me to buy them. Loved their stuff since Max Payne 1. I'm not the biggest fan of heavy cinematic games like metal gear. But Alan wake 1 and 2 are moody, noir, and dripping with atmosphere and charm
Jericho "i think people should be paying more for games" is exactly why people think these guys are out of touch with reality. They really have no idea how much the average person makes do they? 60$ or 70$ is already a large amount of money if you're working minimum wage and he wants people to pay MORE? lol
Jericho never said anything you just claimed he did. You also conveniently ignore the massive caveats to his point he was making. You're also talking about the one guy out of these four that is probably the most in touch with reality given what he does as a side business and who he interacts with outside of his twitch life. But sure lets just make up things people say for fake arguments.
@@Andoheim You didnt watch the video did you? "I think people should be paying more for their art" is what he said literally word for word. Rewatch it properly before responding to me, you utter embarrassment
@@Andoheim He pretty much did say that. “People should be paying more money for their art”. That’s what Jericho means. Art = games. These guys all make a lot of money and are completely out of touch with people that make average salaries. I make decent money but I could never justify paying $100 for any game. Pretending that developers aren’t making tons of money already is crazy. We just had a show recently where they talked about how much money was being made by some of these studios and they still lay off people.
With the star wars outlaws voice actor lady thing, there is also an element of maybe i wouldn't want to have a 3d model of myself put in a game. Given how much ability the gamer then has to oogle that and control the character. Especially with the context that a nude mod is typically made for female characters in most games
tuckers point at 35:20 doesn't really work, sure gamers hate ubisoft or starfield or whatever, but normal people buy and love those games, he talks abt them like they dont make money, but millions of normal people buy them and love them and spend tones of time on them, our small hardcore gamer ecosystem is literally irrelevant compared to how normal people buy games
I still have no idea how to browse streams on RUclips. I use to watch the JP rebirth YT streams, but that was just on my sub page. I think that's the only thing I've seen streamed on RUclips (besides lofi radios I guess). On the note of Blops 6. I'm sad I have to skip the game because the beta makes me super motion sick with how extreme the head bob is and there's no way to turn it off
I've pretty much stopped watching anything on twitch because the amount of ads you receive if you don't have turbo or are subbed to the channel is ridiculous. I still sub to a few creators but if they're not online I just go to youtube and watch other stuff. And it's not just video ads now, they implemented the banner ads that shrink the stream now too. It's just overwhelming. I refuse to watch ads so I just wont watch content on twitch.
on the deadlock discussion I love how Jericho was like this game is so much more approachable for all types of gamers to due the FPS styled movement (kinda implying that that's the easiest type of movement) me over here who can't play an FPS to save my life 😊
Nah, he was saying it's a more popular/familiar/approachable type of movement than RTS, the typical movement style for mobas - which if we take League of Legends out of the mix is entirely true, RTS games don't really come close to the popularity of the big s hooters. Both are still pretty heavy going for people who just don't play fast paced action games.
I think Outlaws is getting a bad rap. Is it a bad stealth adventure game? Yeah, kinda, but Jedi Fallen Order was a bad Soulslike game (in terms of barebones mechanics and lack of customization). They’re both still great Star Wars games that feel like movies with impactful, cinematic moments, memorable characters, and mechanics that serve the story just enough. I think the main reason people aren’t as kind to Outlaws as they were to Fallen Order is A: stealth games (in general) are bad and not fun, and it takes a lot to overcome that B: main character doesn’t have a lightsaber or the force so there is less fantasy fulfillment, with no real customization replacement for a personal lightsaber.
A. Not a souls like game B. They stated TONS of times about the stealth before release, so if you bought it and hated the stealth then that’s on you C. There are Star Wars movies with no lightsabers… people need to get past the whole idea of Star Wars = lightsabers
@@dumbo-lv7jy A: there’s quite a bit of debate about this, so I won’t go too far into it, but they borrowed a lot of Soulslike mechanics without fully committing. Outlaws borrows a lot of stealth game mechanics and rules, but is more committed to being a Star Wars Adventure “Metroidvania” than a true good stealth game. B: I bought the game fully aware of the stealth. I love the game. I am getting everything I want from the game. I still think forced stealth missions are dumb, and better stealth games offer more than one way to do the same mission. This game does not. It is a bad stealth game. Great Star Wars game. C: I couldn’t care less about the lightsabers, but I acknowledge that the general audience associates a Star Wars fantasy heavily with lightsabers. Especially with a game with such a similar vibe to Fallen Order, but more than that, lightsabers were a conduit for customization through collecting parts, crystals, etc. In Outlaws, the gun (or ship) customization should have been a bigger part of the game to fill that gap, but instead it kinda just feels like slapping a poncho on. I love all Star Wars games.
@@Hazlius Thats fair, it was just a little weird that you were commenting about other people and instead you could have just put your own thoughts on the matter. Doesn’t matter what other people say about it, if you enjoy it, then that’s all that matters. Btw, I’m a huge Star Wars fan, my dad is an even bigger one. I’ve got a whole shelf of books and have seen every movie and series. I’ve loved every movie and every game. I also enjoy stealth games and with Outlaws, I can see how forcing someone to do a specific mission only one way may not be fun for all. Just in my opinion I don’t think thats what makes a stealth game bad, bad stealth is what makes them bad.
Yeah, these people really should not be talking about pricing and economy and what is good or bad for the gamers as paying customers. Leave that to Thor who actually knows what he's talking about. These guys are so ridiculously out of touch.
If you would have brought Rami to discuss this, I'm pretty sure he would have said the same thing: The problem with Concord is that as it is, it took too long. Consider it, it's a very well made game by very experienced developers. If it would have come out 6,5, or even 4 years ago, it would have done a lot better. Instead, it's out in a saturated market where they are competing with entrenched free-to-play titles and the one new thing they bring to the table is overly complicated and counter-intuitive.
Don’t think they’re saying to price it like that, but it does logistically make sense to price games based on how much value you’re getting out of them. Like, think about games people have put thousands of hours into and really the main source of revenue comes from the sale and maybe some dlc down the road. Always gonna want games to be cheaper because I like saving money, but I can understand the argument where some games just deserve more money with how much value they bring
There is nothing wrong with cheering on a game's failure. If you make a shitty product you deserve to fail and disappear. Nobody should feel bad for them, they all sucked at their jobs and made a bad game. If I suck at my job, I get fired . Publishers and Devs should be no different.
Yeah because people cheer for those who get fired.. no you negative Nancy. Man you must live a sad life when you get enjoyment from some else’s failures 😂
I agree, Games like GTA 6 that have such a big budget and likely 10 year shelf life should be priced higher. But of course, then you’ll have others bloating their games with a hundred fetch quests and collectibles, so they can “justify” a higher price tag
I think there's more nuance around the conversation about attractive characters not being in western games. Mainly that it's become very obvious that western game devs are seemingly, intentionally making their characters average looking or blatantly unattractive. And it seems that the reason they are doing it is because of fear of backlash and/or their own insecurities or ideologies. (Does anybody remember the ridiculousness around Blizzard making Tracer's butt more flat because a loud minority of gamers got mad about it? How absurd was that?) Of course there's going to be the douchebags out there or whatever that just want more booba in their games but I find it dismissive to just say that those people are the only ones pointing out this weird discrepancy between western and eastern games. Personally (and I am woman) I want to play aspirational characters. Cool looking characters. Beautiful characters! Funny characters. Or sexy characters. I don't want to play a boring character. Or a generic character. Especially not if they aren't interesting. And it's weird that Ubisoft Massive seemingly INTENTIONALLY made this character unattractive. Can we not wonder about that? And why they did that? At the end of the day, this conversation is absurd because sexy, beautiful women OR men should be able to be in games and it shouldn't be a big deal. Rant over.
The thing deadlock lacks for me is an interesting theme. The Steampunk theme is just not that interesting to me.. I think it is a fun new idea but it won't be massive
I have no idea what contracts have run out, why people waited until contracts ran out before they "came back", and in general who these people are. Not the best opening to Dropped Frames. Edit: Ok, so based on context, these are people who accepted RUclips exclusivity contracts and are now back on Twitch after those contracts ran out.
@@dumbo-lv7jy Funny you should say that. The first version of my comment actually started with "I may be living under a rock..." And to answer your question, I only watch a few people on Twitch, but not consistently, and haven't ventured out past that.
@@CoryMT thats funny. I do understand that some people don’t know who they are. I manly commented because you’re watching a dropped frames episode and you don’t seem to be a new viewer. So just a little weird as they are big fans of some of the large streamers, so they tend to talk about them a lot.
I think one of the reason I love Dropped frames over so many other podcast is how they professionally talk about the pros/cons, current struggles, issues, etc of streaming and twitch. I like that it's not JUST games, it's everyone's life, twitch/streaming, and gaming.
Gives a real good insight to the life of being a streamer, to viewers
I wonder why youtube never show me one of these shows you are talking about. Before this show i watched TB, Dodger and Jesse. Could you recommend another podcasts?
No way I'd pay $99 USD for GTA. That's like $135 CAD, $147 AUD, etc. You're basically asking for sales to plummet outside of the United States.
It's always clueless upper class people that have these hot takes. Entertainment needs to stay cheap, period.
I wouldn't worry about price increases because as we have seen the market corrects itself and cheaper games overwhelmingly outsell overpriced games. Just look at the success of helldiver's as a recent example
We need to increase the cost of a game by 66% (60--> 100) if this is the plan from the industry we're quickly approaching current gen gaming being impossible for minimum wage folks in the US being able to get a game a month let alone outside the country. Jericho's statement was braindead out of touch, probably doesn't even know the cost of a banana lol
@@balance00wow i love how you say that but games have been 60 dollars since what, 2005? just by pure inflation alone 60 dollars in 2005 is like 95 dollars today. let alone other rising costs of employment and tech and bigger teams etc. "its so out of touch" as for 20 years the 60 dollars price tag hasnt changed.
@@oplawlzIf you think gaming is just for entertainment… then your more clueless than a child lol
I regretted every game I purchased for over 60 USD, just because nothing in it felt like it justified the price. A long game doesn't justify a higher price point.
Everytime some exec claims we should be paying more for their games, I hope someone would remind them that they dont ship complete games anymore and if they expect us to pay more then they better get back to shipping finished games that don't need 10 plus oatches in the first month.
In some ways, video gaming pricing should be and kinda is like movie theatre pricing. The studios don't set how much a film is shown for. It is for studios to make films that will attract enough viewers to be profitable. That means balancing the development budget with the expectations audience revenue.
"If a ton more resources are put into a project it should cost more" uh, no. The movie industry is one of the most successful, prolific art/entertainment industries in human history, and they have in fact done *just fine* making people millionaires and studios making billions of dollars off of movies that cost, generally speaking, more or less the same amount. Movie budget =/= movie price.
Trying to say games should be that way is just bowing down to money-hungry corporations that only care about their quarterly revenues going up and their annual salaries skyrocketing.
So by Cohh's logic people who go to see a marvel movie should pay 5x as much as someone who goes to see a romcom?
Dude, “should” is not a word they used 😂 no one should pay more, it’s a choice. Just don’t buy a game if it’s too expensive to you, pretty simple. Also they used GTA as an example not a marvel movie…
@@dumbo-lv7jy You do realize that they are all multimillionaires right?
Out of touch streamer tries to discuss finances with his viewers. It’s never gunna work, they’re too far separated now.
@@Mako2401 It doesn’t matter how much money you make dude. Just because you’re a millionaire doesn’t mean you can’t talk about pricing of things. I’m not a millionaire lol
@@failadin1 He’s not discussing finances all he’s saying is that it’s fair to pay more for a product that’s worth more 😂 Unbelievable how many people don’t see that… just shows how many unemployed and uneducated people are in the comments lol
“Never pay more than 20 bucks for a computer game”
- Guybrush Threepwood
Pricing games higher is kinda dumb in a market that is getting incredibly saturated to begin with, you start pricing games at 100 dollars you will see a lot of gaming companies die incredibly quickly
Not every game is going to be 100$….
@@dumbo-lv7jy Aside from GTA 6, the only other game that could charge that amount of money is Half Life 3
@@Mako2401 okay, cool
@@Mako2401 meanwhile people spend way more on sub fee and gacha games
@@emikochan13 Which people, the ones that can't buy food? Or mutimillionaire whales?
Games do NOT cost $60 currently. That’s the base entry point. But the REAL costs are in MTX, DLC, 4 Day Head Starts, Premium Editions, etc. Those are the norm.
And the “games are expensive to make” narrative is a mainly a load of crap. Like any business, your budget is a choice. Your scope is a choice. If you don’t think you can make a game where your costs can be recovered and you can make a profit at a fair price point, then make a cheaper game.
Gaming companies, like defense contractors, operate with staggering levels of inefficiency. If they needed more money to pay workers better wages and provide them with real job security, I’d pay more. But they don’t. Instead, they just want ALL of the money so that shareholders get more and more money.
1. Don’t pre-order games
2. Don’t let weaponized FOMO scam you out of your money
3. Wait for sales
Typical gamer populist schlock
Games are $70 currently. And they were $50 ini 2010. The price is far outstripping the rate of inflation. And people usually don't take into account that there is a much larger audience for video games than there were in the past. They don't have to physically produce them. They don't have to ship and distribute them. They don't have to handle physical refunds and returns. They don't have to deal with physical warehousing. They don't have to deal (on PC) with platform royalties like with consoles. So I really don't want to hear their bullshit. There are companies that are making killer games for a fraction of the cost and making killer returns. And they're selling games for $15, $20, $30, and $40.
29:00 I didn't realize Annapurna made TV/movies. Pretty much any game they publish is great.
Just a quick comment on Itsuno making DMC2. He was brought in to make the game shippable. It was a total disaster. DMC3 is the first DMC game he directed from start to finish and was widely regarded as saving the franchise. It is why he is beloved by DMC fans.
That was quick uploading, so thanks for the VOD. I already watched the live stream and am looking forward to next week.
I will never pay more than a $60 game, I don't care how amazing it is.
Me neither. If games are too expensive for that price tag, stop spending so much on production.
Yeah you are paying for the bloated marketing which brings zero value to the game itself.
@@bl00dleter lets not pretend like AAA games are not way more expensive to develop, and it's just the marketing that has increased.
@@lilfuzzballa Of course, but sometimes its insane, when 30% of your pricetag is just consisting of you paying for the privilege of having the game shoved down your mouth.
@@bl00dleter Well you have to think how much more competitive the gaming market has become. Now in days if you don't drop a pretty penny on marketing, your game will very easily be forgotten about or even unheard of, since gamers are just flooded by adverts from thousands of different games trying to compete for our attention.
Players will easily see an ad and go, "oh I should buy that when it comes out." But the next day they'll see an ad for an even more impressive looking game and all of a sudden want that game instead. There's so much competition that publishers need to constantly remind players of why their game is more worth your money and time.
No matter what, us gamers are going to end up paying that cost through MTX, subscriptions, or $100 premium versions, or something. A lot of money and research has went into the effectiveness of video game ads, so they know it works, so it's not like the heavy spending on ads are pointless or just wasted. It's the hard truth.
But also, people like you and I are plugged in to the gaming world. We consume video game things constantly. So we see the ads way more than the average person. But think about all the casual gamers or gamer parents that hardly see these ads. The casual gamers are the main ones they are trying to reach, so they need to put extra effort to get them to take notice.
ah the rich saying people should pay more... how noble
Dad: "Son what is this on your wall? Is this glue?"
Son: 2:23:08
I’d drop gaming as a hobby all together if prices get any higher than $70, it’s kind of pointless at that point.
Would you pay more for a movie just because the studio spent more? Fuck no.
I think something unique that was asked 'how can twitch monetize without ads?' This company is owned by Amazon and yet has so few connections between them that they are essentially underutilizing twitches reach. Why do they not build UI elements, not plugins, but full fledged UI that has quick links to items the user sees easily? So many people ask "what is your PC specs?" and "what equipment do you use?" All ads or links should be tailored to that type of content. Amazons sales of these items could easily be connected.
RUclips streaming is fantastic as a modern replacement for TiVo. When I was to watch an eSports tournament or something like that, it is great to be able to rewind, pause, replay etc. However, when engaging with individual content creators, Twitch is second to none.
I totally understand JP's explanation/complaint about Deadlock.
Its like playing Guilty Gear but you have to play Chipp or Millia when you just want to play Sol or May.
its not even close, GG is rly hardcore, deadlock is easy to start with. My gf who enver played mobas loves it
I'm one of those long-term Twitch viewers and due to time constraints, the mobile app was my primary way of consuming content. The last UI update was the last straw, and I just refuse to use the mobile app. I went from viewing my favorite streamers for 1-2 hours per day to 1-2 hours per week, if that. I really do hope Twitch fixes their "push" campaign, because I love the platform and the streamers that call it home.
I do not want to see JP get his ass blasted...
rich people asking "should games cost more?" when the grand majority of humans on the planet are at or below the poverty line is not a great look and those people using a large platform to expel such a corrosive take when the entire economy is based on short term line go up is actively harmful. "vote with your wallet" doesnt fucking work cohh, every "no" vote is not a no its an abstain from voting. the degree to which the average person has influence over their only options disproves the claim that if they just stopped spending money on their only options it would make things better.
this is once again people posing the solution to a problem being to point a gun at the end of the assembly line and ignoring the factory churning it out
Soooo, your basically saying rich people have no say in how things should be priced 😂 It’s funny how you can tell when people don’t actually pay any attention to the video playing and comment as soon as they hear something they don’t like… no where did anyone say everyone should pay more for games. If you can’t afford it then don’t buy it, it’s pretty simple.
While games don't need to be cutting edge I think there is a base line due to the technology of the era. That base line has most likely increased the cost of development without really increasing the price of the product. I think games are sort of pushing an unnecessary limit to get miniscule improvements and it's multiplying the cost of creation especially when attempting to maximize the capabilities of the technology of the medium. FF7 Rebirth looks better than FF7 Remake but the improvement is basically unnecessary to me.
@@PickedaName_ I get what you’re saying in some aspects. But not every game is like that nor is every game changing their price to be higher. They gave a great example with GTA of how widely successful it is, and how much GTA 6 costs to make. GTA 6 could be the first and only game to have a base price tag above 60-70$. But maybe not, only time will tell and that’s all they really were talking about. No one said a game should cost more, they are just willing to pay more if it was worth it. Which absolutely makes sense.
THE WALLS OF JERICHO!!!
Everytime I read Jericho I think of the Clife Baker game.
Y2J! Y2J! Y2J!
I feel like it's hard to argue if games should cost more when games are STILL making hand over fist money for a lot of companies, singular game revenues fund multiple games still so why should we be making that money pile bigger? So instead of that the companies can make 2 games at the same time they can make 3?
If the costs of making games are also so high, are they making enough effort to lowering costs? What about the fact that digital items don't depreciate? Witcher 3 and other games still get sold to this day, does that money not count towards the company bank account? I know people say that games are the only thing that haven't inflated in terms of price but they are also selling almost indefinitely at whatever price they're set as with almost no cost as Steam hosts the files and for single player games you literally don't need anything but the files delivered to you.
There are too many questions that contribute to "games should cost more" that could hide the fact that it might just be a greed situation rather than a "we need to stay afloat" situation, from effort to revenue sources there is not enough information to go off of.
Funny enough, it's one of the few times I agree with Asmongold on something. He has the view of, games cost too much to make? Not our damm problem! We have our own problems, we work for our money. Companies just get given it by investors by just existing.
Like look at how much EA make for Ultimate team each year? Billions. An they tried to charge more for the new star wars game. They don't need the money!
Man Jericho is out of touch, there is a massive amount of people that play cod mp, also rank is very popular. He's just burned out of it and that's fine, but really out of touch comments
do more people play MP or Warzone?
Did watch the stream on Twitch but I fell asleep during Jericho's talk about COD. So good that the VOD is here so I can watch the rest 😀
To Cohh at 1:12:20 "An artist never really finishes his work, he merely abandons it" - Paul Valery
Always a pleasure to see Dan in the show ❤also i miss zeeeeeeeeeeeeeeek 😢
the industry can first try to fix their problems before raising prices
BTW as an avid moba player, Deadlock is more in common with Super Monday Night Combat than Smite, Smite is probably the only 3rd person moba still successful on the market, but SMNC had much more fast paced, shooter based combat like Deadlock. Smite does allow aiming, but it's mainly with just ability skillshots, ADCs have to aim for all their basic attacks but it's mainly just about learning to get your projectile to hit and there's no y-axis. (Can't aim up or down) SMNC didn't have such a robust shop as Deadlock though, but fairly similar combat/laning. (A more fast paced, skill based shooter Moba basically)
Aside from the pricing, concord could have been a lot better if it had a different art style
@@Mauvias92 or if it launched with all content planned to be released. It could've launched as a movie with pvp but it's drip feeding content. It's 40 because of the entire package but they delivering it in separate boxes.
People play Deadlock and then say it's crazy that Valve is patching and experimenting rapidly.
That's what you signed up for, it's not even close to a finished product, what were you expecting. That's why Valve didn't want it to go viral yet
Best Stealth Game? BG3. Fight me about it.
JP seems like he has fun on all of these. I really appreciate when these come out as they are a nice break from reality! Also, no "use items from inventory" is why I quit Core Keeper for now. It's a great game, but I'm not dealing with that. Metal Gear Solid is "Tactical Espionage Action" it says it right on the cover of the first game.
No one mentioned the original Thief games as great stealth games? Children
Remedy has said that alan wake 2 has made them as much as they expected. Plus, if Epic didn't fund the game alan wake 2 would never come out
The batman Arkham games have great stealth. It's not the most challenging thing in the world but they really balance making you feel like a powerful stealthy batman, but if you get caught by a dude with a gun you panic.
Games probably should cost more but I don't think many game companies could get away with it. I think there's a point when people just stop buying games.
99 bucks for a game? No. I’m already at the point I’m waiting for games to go on sale b4 I buy them. I want wu Kong and mana, but I’m waiting for them to be at least 10 bucks off.
Too many games, to many subscriptions, to many microtransactons.
@2:27:39 Like the Fable lady my main question why is their a need to make a character look less appealing and then devs media people scoff at people who wonder why they made the video game (fantasized) version a real life person look less appealing.
If their going to do that why not make the male/female characters start having messed up teeth, pimple scars, cross eyed, 5 heads, hair line so far back it looks like they were balding at the age of 10, and they better be 5'8 for males that are walking twigs that hunch their shoulders down forward walking like their Smegul, and 200 lbs females that have no chin but somehow have 3 chins.
Why aren't those things in the game for my main character?
How do you gloss over Forever Winter because devs were pandering? That's a good thing. But then spend almost an hour on Ubislop a game everyone knew would be mediocre from the jump.
i must have missed all the "lots to see" in core keeper
Remedy bought the Control IP back from Epic only recently, for just this reason. Honestly can't wait for Control show or movie to be something like X-Files, Fringe, Warehouse 13, Eureka...
70 euro is my limit ,making it more will just make me wait even more before making a decision which is worse for the publishers.
Ludwig isn't fully back on twitch, his big budget events are co-streamed but everything else is still only on RUclips.
2:21:25 Galactic Jizz Whalers could easily have been the title of this episode.
A thing on the Blue Protocol. While it is being canceled by Bandai Namco. Tenncent are still developing the Chinese version that was supposed to be a mobile game and will now be mobile and PC there is a slim chance that Tenncent will take this as a chance to release it globally as well.
I noticed that I get recommended a lot of smaller live streams on YT, especially small vtubers
I just want a Spies vs Mercenaries multiplayer game again. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory version is superior to the Double Agent version but at this point, I'd take any version of it.
Oh, THAT'S Jericho. I thought you guys had the pro wrestler Chris Jericho in the mix at some point.
I did like the "hands down" talk intro 20ish min's very much, as those are things we (viewers) all see but rarely anyone talks openly about.
Loving the guests lately, possibly even more PirateSoftware? Always great to have Dan, Jericho and Co. on the DF. Can't wait to hear back from Zeke!
Games already are over €100, they sell Ultimate editions....
Also, could there be anymore ads on this video? Holy fuck.
i was hoping for max for the capcom takes :D but jericho is fine too long time no see. and always nice to have dan s gaming 👌
Why? Didn't you watch the last Dropped Frames? JP said that Jericho and Dan is coming and that Max would be after this one.
this is episode 399.9 right?
JP: the solution for age is a shift toward strategy games. =)
If you want to play great stealth games play Mark of the Ninja and invisible Inc imo
Turn the fucking stove off as well 😂😂😂😂😂
as a coment COD at the start was every to years till they added the 3rd team
I'm with JP. I don't wanna git good anymore! 😂
As a viewer one of the biggest turn-offs on twitch is when it runs 2-5 minutes of ads when I first tune in before I can even see what the streamer is doing. I'm not going to sit around watching minutes of ads before I even know if I want to watch this streamer.
Deadlock is definitely harder to play and more sweaty than other moba. And I had played Dota, LoL and Apex. This game go full 100 at min 0 and it won’t stop, hell it gets even worse in late game. There is no down time, there is no afk farming for 10m. There is no stalling. You have to be sweaty all the time or you will get stomped.
You go try it and you will understand what I meant.
If games are going to be priced more, they had better be COMPLETE games. No 50 patches later the game is playable and fun. No microtransactions. No gacha mechanics. A complete and finished game.
Because we all know how the suits at the top will take this opportunity. They will increase the upfront cost, and keep all the other things inside still to make even more money.
😂 I took way to long looking for episode 400
I know being a star wars fan now a days is to be used to be happy for scraps but boy is this not it , its a cash grab a nice picture until it moves good god the faces ... the debate about irl Vs in game is dumb but that dont take away from the fact that your main character looks like a fish cosplaying a human.
Telling people if you only get to the end it will be good and squint your eyes during cut-scenes to forget the fish face the game is ok ! people will rightfully play any of the other much beter games out there.
Ps play swotors Smuggler story way beter then this.
1:07:17 risk or rain 2 expansion
Dan
Bums me out that Alan Wake 2 didn't really recoup its cost. I think being exclusive to Epic hurt it alot.
I bought it cause I'm a Huge remedy fan and Finnish..almost a national requirement for me to buy them. Loved their stuff since Max Payne 1. I'm not the biggest fan of heavy cinematic games like metal gear. But Alan wake 1 and 2 are moody, noir, and dripping with atmosphere and charm
dropped interruptions @9:25
33:05 drum solo
I saw the cat video it was reuploaded by Bear Gaming Asia a week ago it is so funny and looks very real, Stray motion capped some cats too.
I just rushed yellow long with pluck of many and killed them in less than a min.
Guarantee whatever the price is standard when gta6 comes will be the same. If it’s 69.99 so is gta
Jericho "i think people should be paying more for games" is exactly why people think these guys are out of touch with reality. They really have no idea how much the average person makes do they? 60$ or 70$ is already a large amount of money if you're working minimum wage and he wants people to pay MORE? lol
Jericho never said anything you just claimed he did. You also conveniently ignore the massive caveats to his point he was making. You're also talking about the one guy out of these four that is probably the most in touch with reality given what he does as a side business and who he interacts with outside of his twitch life. But sure lets just make up things people say for fake arguments.
@@Andoheim You didnt watch the video did you? "I think people should be paying more for their art" is what he said literally word for word. Rewatch it properly before responding to me, you utter embarrassment
@@Andoheim He pretty much did say that. “People should be paying more money for their art”. That’s what Jericho means. Art = games. These guys all make a lot of money and are completely out of touch with people that make average salaries. I make decent money but I could never justify paying $100 for any game. Pretending that developers aren’t making tons of money already is crazy. We just had a show recently where they talked about how much money was being made by some of these studios and they still lay off people.
With the star wars outlaws voice actor lady thing, there is also an element of maybe i wouldn't want to have a 3d model of myself put in a game. Given how much ability the gamer then has to oogle that and control the character. Especially with the context that a nude mod is typically made for female characters in most games
I wish there was a feature where everyone on the podcast had seperate audio streams through the VOD so that I could mute Cohh.
tuckers point at 35:20 doesn't really work, sure gamers hate ubisoft or starfield or whatever, but normal people buy and love those games, he talks abt them like they dont make money, but millions of normal people buy them and love them and spend tones of time on them, our small hardcore gamer ecosystem is literally irrelevant compared to how normal people buy games
I still have no idea how to browse streams on RUclips. I use to watch the JP rebirth YT streams, but that was just on my sub page. I think that's the only thing I've seen streamed on RUclips (besides lofi radios I guess).
On the note of Blops 6. I'm sad I have to skip the game because the beta makes me super motion sick with how extreme the head bob is and there's no way to turn it off
The ending comments, man. Holy. Shyt.
Maybe they shouldn't spend millions/billion on a game, and expect everyone to be able to pay full price, for them. And be mad about it.
I've pretty much stopped watching anything on twitch because the amount of ads you receive if you don't have turbo or are subbed to the channel is ridiculous. I still sub to a few creators but if they're not online I just go to youtube and watch other stuff. And it's not just video ads now, they implemented the banner ads that shrink the stream now too. It's just overwhelming. I refuse to watch ads so I just wont watch content on twitch.
on the deadlock discussion
I love how Jericho was like this game is so much more approachable for all types of gamers to due the FPS styled movement (kinda implying that that's the easiest type of movement)
me over here who can't play an FPS to save my life 😊
Nah, he was saying it's a more popular/familiar/approachable type of movement than RTS, the typical movement style for mobas - which if we take League of Legends out of the mix is entirely true, RTS games don't really come close to the popularity of the big s hooters.
Both are still pretty heavy going for people who just don't play fast paced action games.
I think Outlaws is getting a bad rap. Is it a bad stealth adventure game? Yeah, kinda, but Jedi Fallen Order was a bad Soulslike game (in terms of barebones mechanics and lack of customization). They’re both still great Star Wars games that feel like movies with impactful, cinematic moments, memorable characters, and mechanics that serve the story just enough.
I think the main reason people aren’t as kind to Outlaws as they were to Fallen Order is
A: stealth games (in general) are bad and not fun, and it takes a lot to overcome that
B: main character doesn’t have a lightsaber or the force so there is less fantasy fulfillment, with no real customization replacement for a personal lightsaber.
A. Not a souls like game
B. They stated TONS of times about the stealth before release, so if you bought it and hated the stealth then that’s on you
C. There are Star Wars movies with no lightsabers… people need to get past the whole idea of Star Wars = lightsabers
@@dumbo-lv7jy
A: there’s quite a bit of debate about this, so I won’t go too far into it, but they borrowed a lot of Soulslike mechanics without fully committing. Outlaws borrows a lot of stealth game mechanics and rules, but is more committed to being a Star Wars Adventure “Metroidvania” than a true good stealth game.
B: I bought the game fully aware of the stealth. I love the game. I am getting everything I want from the game. I still think forced stealth missions are dumb, and better stealth games offer more than one way to do the same mission. This game does not. It is a bad stealth game. Great Star Wars game.
C: I couldn’t care less about the lightsabers, but I acknowledge that the general audience associates a Star Wars fantasy heavily with lightsabers. Especially with a game with such a similar vibe to Fallen Order, but more than that, lightsabers were a conduit for customization through collecting parts, crystals, etc. In Outlaws, the gun (or ship) customization should have been a bigger part of the game to fill that gap, but instead it kinda just feels like slapping a poncho on.
I love all Star Wars games.
@@Hazlius Thats fair, it was just a little weird that you were commenting about other people and instead you could have just put your own thoughts on the matter. Doesn’t matter what other people say about it, if you enjoy it, then that’s all that matters.
Btw, I’m a huge Star Wars fan, my dad is an even bigger one. I’ve got a whole shelf of books and have seen every movie and series. I’ve loved every movie and every game. I also enjoy stealth games and with Outlaws, I can see how forcing someone to do a specific mission only one way may not be fun for all. Just in my opinion I don’t think thats what makes a stealth game bad, bad stealth is what makes them bad.
Yeah, these people really should not be talking about pricing and economy and what is good or bad for the gamers as paying customers. Leave that to Thor who actually knows what he's talking about. These guys are so ridiculously out of touch.
From what I have seen so far I am not getting the new GTA.
companies spend too much money on marketing
Metal gear games , best stealth games beside splinter cell and even older assassin creed games had some good parts .
Dishonored has great stealth too~
If you would have brought Rami to discuss this, I'm pretty sure he would have said the same thing: The problem with Concord is that as it is, it took too long. Consider it, it's a very well made game by very experienced developers. If it would have come out 6,5, or even 4 years ago, it would have done a lot better. Instead, it's out in a saturated market where they are competing with entrenched free-to-play titles and the one new thing they bring to the table is overly complicated and counter-intuitive.
Your digital "art" has infinite copies to sell. Your digital art is NOT a 1 off da Vinci and does NOT deserved to be priced as such.
Don’t think they’re saying to price it like that, but it does logistically make sense to price games based on how much value you’re getting out of them. Like, think about games people have put thousands of hours into and really the main source of revenue comes from the sale and maybe some dlc down the road. Always gonna want games to be cheaper because I like saving money, but I can understand the argument where some games just deserve more money with how much value they bring
Tell me you have no idea what you're talking about without telling me. That's not how profit works buddy.
@@Andoheim That is a budget issue. Don't push your in house financial woes onto consumers.
A budget issue??? You clearly don’t know anything about how much a game costs or that time is money lol
Simple, don't spend that much to make the game. We dont need ganes that cost 100 million to make.
There is nothing wrong with cheering on a game's failure. If you make a shitty product you deserve to fail and disappear. Nobody should feel bad for them, they all sucked at their jobs and made a bad game. If I suck at my job, I get fired . Publishers and Devs should be no different.
Yeah because people cheer for those who get fired.. no you negative Nancy. Man you must live a sad life when you get enjoyment from some else’s failures 😂
I agree, Games like GTA 6 that have such a big budget and likely 10 year shelf life should be priced higher. But of course, then you’ll have others bloating their games with a hundred fetch quests and collectibles, so they can “justify” a higher price tag
I think there's more nuance around the conversation about attractive characters not being in western games.
Mainly that it's become very obvious that western game devs are seemingly, intentionally making their characters average looking or blatantly unattractive. And it seems that the reason they are doing it is because of fear of backlash and/or their own insecurities or ideologies. (Does anybody remember the ridiculousness around Blizzard making Tracer's butt more flat because a loud minority of gamers got mad about it? How absurd was that?)
Of course there's going to be the douchebags out there or whatever that just want more booba in their games but I find it dismissive to just say that those people are the only ones pointing out this weird discrepancy between western and eastern games. Personally (and I am woman) I want to play aspirational characters. Cool looking characters. Beautiful characters! Funny characters. Or sexy characters. I don't want to play a boring character. Or a generic character. Especially not if they aren't interesting. And it's weird that Ubisoft Massive seemingly INTENTIONALLY made this character unattractive. Can we not wonder about that? And why they did that?
At the end of the day, this conversation is absurd because sexy, beautiful women OR men should be able to be in games and it shouldn't be a big deal. Rant over.
This Jericho dude comes off as grumpy and uninteresting
The thing deadlock lacks for me is an interesting theme. The Steampunk theme is just not that interesting to me.. I think it is a fun new idea but it won't be massive
Hot take, GTA will never be worth $100 USD to me. 2 billion in dev cost, come on son, don't give me that bull. No game justifies that cost, ever.
Hey there jpizzles :) Tell cohh that wukong is a souls like. he's wrong.
It is a lot like Sekiro to me.
How is Wukong souls like? It's closer to an action game then souls like.
It isn't a souls like people just forgot devil may cry exists
It's not a soulslike it's an action rpg, which soulslike games are too
not one mention that they all took paid sponsorships to shill the DOA live service game
I have no idea what contracts have run out, why people waited until contracts ran out before they "came back", and in general who these people are.
Not the best opening to Dropped Frames.
Edit: Ok, so based on context, these are people who accepted RUclips exclusivity contracts and are now back on Twitch after those contracts ran out.
You don’t know about the biggest streamers of all time are? Do you live under a rock lol
@@dumbo-lv7jy Funny you should say that. The first version of my comment actually started with "I may be living under a rock..."
And to answer your question, I only watch a few people on Twitch, but not consistently, and haven't ventured out past that.
@@CoryMT thats funny. I do understand that some people don’t know who they are. I manly commented because you’re watching a dropped frames episode and you don’t seem to be a new viewer. So just a little weird as they are big fans of some of the large streamers, so they tend to talk about them a lot.
Faze clan scammer millions with save the kids