Keyboards Should Have Been Like This
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- Опубликовано: 29 май 2024
- My ortho keyboard struggle
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split keyboards video when
COLUMNAR STAGGERED
@@The_Gourd_cyaSPLIT STAGGERED COLUMNAR
Dave you should try Corne split keyboard
Are you able to switch back to staggered layout pretty easily?
Is it possible to use Ortho at home and then go back to regular elsewhere and not have issues once you've learned Ortho fully?
Nobody can convince me that any non-split ortho board is ergonomic
As user of custom designed 86 key ortho southpaw keyboard, it is not ergonomic
Unless the southpaw part
Everything is relative. It's *more* ergonomic than a staggered-column keyboard, but it's not as ergonomic as a split, and/or dactyl keyboard.
I use a 75% ortho with the numpad in the center. It makes it somewhat split, and I love it personally. It looks clean and feels great to me.
@@lopodyr let me guess
Punk75
It's still more ergonomic than a staggered board, it just doesn't resolve all the issues without the split. I currently use a split ortho 40% as my daily driver but 3 years before that i started w/ a 40% non-split ortho board and it significantly improved finger fatigue for long programming sessions because i didn't have to make wild reaches for symbols. it still suffers from forcing you into a should hunch and some wrist angling, though it's less egregious on my wrists than staggered boards. i think they're a good transitional board between non-split and split
Just wait till he finds split curved keyboards. Its called dactyl btw.
and praises the ergonomics
@@jackyfong1717 dactyl dactyl dactyl
Thanks for introducing that rabbit hole to me 😉
I have a dactyl, it's great!
ptero- ?
"saw this pic on Reddit" Dave is the cleanest Redditor who takes baths
Theres a difference between a redittor and a person who uses reddit
Who are u. I see u everywhere
there is a difference between a person who uses Reddit and a Redditor
@@Jacques13able This. Why is @HeisenbergFam in all the videos I watch.
Because we are The One Who Knocks ;)
Some things worth noting about ergonomic keyboards...
1. Ortholinear keyboards are typically columnar, but good ergonomic keyboards should have row stagger. (If you put your hands in a natural resting position their should be a curve to your finger placement). Row linear layouts increase the risk of "trigger finger" and is not a good design.
2. The wrist strain you are explaining sounds like RSI from "Ulnar Deviation". This is something fixed by a split keyboard layout, but has nothing to do with columnar keyboard ergonomics. My speculation is that your wrist pain had more to do with not using your pinkies when typing which, on a non-split keyboard that already causes bad ulnar deviation, would dial those extensions (where you should be using your pinkies) to 11.
3. The other wrist related RSI would be extension (your wrists being arched up instead of straight on the keyboard). You should consider a wrist rest for your keyboard since many of the ones you show have a fairly high profile which makes them terrible ergonomic keyboards. This is why many people like apple keyboards so much: their thin profile minimizes wrist extension which is usually the most common type of RSI people experience since the strain exists even when you are resting your hands and not actively typing.
4. Ergonomic keyboards should have a natural tenting angle to prevent pronation (this would be the weird curved hump you see in most "ergonomic keyboards"). This is also why split keyboards tend to have adjustable feet for angling them closer to a 'natural' hand shaking position. It is also why "ergonomic mice" are vertical.
In conclusion, every keyboard you showed in that video had absolutely terrible ergonomics. They look cool, but if someone actually cares about minimizing RSI they should pass on all of these. It is important to identify what type of strain is causing discomfort and choose a keyboard that minimizes that. For Ulnar Deviation you should look at split keyboards. For wrist extension you should look at moving your keyboards further away, getting a good wrist rest, etc. For pronation you should get a keyboard that rotates the resting position of your hand closer to the position of a handshake (Such as the Logitech ERGO K860). If you have finger pain or "trigger finger" than it may be worth exploring an ortholinear layout, but don't expect it to move the needle that much. If that is something that really bothers you, than you should really consider biting the bullet on learning an ergonomic keyboard layout such as Dvorak, Workman, or Colemak-DH. The best of all worlds would be keyboards like the Glove-80, the Kinesis Advantage 360, the ZSA Voyager/Moonlander, etc. These are all very expensive keyboards, but that's the price to have it all.
Ok so I'm not insane. Like your hands and fingers aren't straight they curve and stuff, how can this possibly be more ergonomic than a regular keyboard where it seems better suited for curved fingers.
@@theflawedamy Ergonomic keyboards often stagger keys, but not in the way QWERTY does it. Typically a lot less aggressive. They’ll also offset the keys to the left instead of the right for the left side of the keyboard.
Ortholinear can be quite comfortable, but it depends on how the whole keyboard is put together. The Glove80, for example, curves the keyboard around your hands.
@@theflawedamy They are relatively straight. Put your hand in a "handshake" (neutral) position, and open and close your grip like you're Spider-Man - but with all of your fingers, instead of just the web-shooter-activating ones. Don't fight the natural tension of your hands/don't dramatically splay your fingers (move them apart) in order to prove your point - just move them real quick.
Your fingers are moving on a relatively linear path. Not perfectly linear, but close enough.
When that person said that the rows should be staggered, I don't think they mean like a regular keyboard - I think they mean that the keyboard should be "cupped", or bowl shaped. Google: "Dactyl Manuform Keyboard". For each finger, there is a "max reach/max retract" distance (you pinky can't reach as far as your middle finger, for example, so the "top" key for each finger shouldn't be the same distance from the base of your hand), and the top and bottom rows should be angled toward where the pad of your finger would land, because that's how curling digits land on things when reaching/retracting - not straight down.
Also add Svalboard/lalboard/datahand to the ‘best of both worlds’ list
And the keyboardio full size keyboards to that list as well
Now try a split ortho linear one. That's what's really ergonomic. The rectangular bricks are good, but way beyond what comfortable typing can be.
"Way beyond" implies that it's way ahead, which I don't think is what you were trying to say
I got the moonlander, the pre-made one, it sure takes long time to learn but with a 3d printed higher base, it's so much more comfortable to use than normal staggered mechanical
@@Simon-tr9hv now try a 40% split ;)
Even better, splayed columnar split!
split column staggered is def the way to go for keebs
i wouldnt call an ortho keyboard "ergonomic" because it still has your wrists bent in a way that produces ulnar deviation, along with forearm pronation due to your wrists being flat parallel to your desktop. the keys not being staggered reduces neither of these strains on your wrists, and simply provides a comfort that is very much individual based. a tented split ergo keyboard is something to look into if you want an actual ergonomic keyboard.
Not if you get a split one though. That's the holy grail
@@VincentFree yeah that is true, ortho split boards have good merit to them because some of them have the rows laid out in a way where all the rows are equal distance from your fingers
Something like the Helix is a good example. It's split yet ortholinear. I personally like the Atreus 62 for the compactness and angled design, although it's not purely ortholinear; the columns are staggered.
It's not tented, but I've really enjoyed using the Levinson. Was a fun build too, if you're into the building part of the hobby at all.
Yeah... That tiny narrow thing would not do good things to me. Came looking for this comment, good run through of why this is not ortho
Ortho but not split sounds like a nightmare. Look how cramped your hands are together.
I mean it’s the same as on any non-split
It's hilarious he call a 64 key keyboard ergonomic lmfao
the OG planck layouts make no sense. I moved the shift tab row and the enter keys into the middle. Planck required you to use layer shift anyway, and to make the most out of it you have to embrace the layers. Ben Valleck have some nice videos on alternative planck layouts with layers
@@VuLamDang Yeah, moving enter and others to the middle is a good and old idea, going back to the TypeMatrix, tmk the original Ortho.
@@VuLamDangthat's not about the size, that's about how you use it
This looks like a Lego brick
Savage 🤣
and it looks amazing
@@osvy5144yes it does look amazing
But I'm not sure I'd be willing to put in the amount of effort required to unlearn and relearn typing on such a keyboard.
About as useful as a lego brick too.
My personal take is that apart from looks, there isn't much of an ergonomic advantage with these type of ortho keyboards. Just splitting the board alone would massively improve ergonomics. Id love to see you try something like a dactyl, or even just a corne / lily / kyria / etc
I think he missed the sticker set at the bottom of the box.
Corne would be a much easier jump from an ortho 40, especially compared to going from standard to ortho 40. 60% column stagger is where I think most people would be happiest with, though I only have a Corne.
had me in the first half, ngl
Finally bro has made a keyboard video after 84 years...
always seemed to me that he was deep into custom mechs but avoided channel coverage because he knows its a pricey rabit hole. which doesnt entirely fit with the products he chooses to cover where price to performance is usually a factor
Switching to better keyboards is like the US switching from imperial to metric. The outcome makes sense but the process to get there is painful
This applies to every change in life 😅
"Switching to your ortho is always faster than relearning."
And expensive af
Yeah, the process of switching to the Colemak DH layout from QWERTY was pretty difficult. You’re constantly having to fight against muscle memory until you can overwrite it with the new layout. I do want to get an ortholinear keyboard at some point though.
The US switched to metric many decades ago, but the population don't know about it.
For those of you that live near a Microcenter and wanting to try this keyboard layout, they sell an Orthlinear keyboard for $40, the Inland 47-Key Mechanical Keyboard. Great little keyboard, that has RGB and hot swappable switches.
Siiiiiiiick
Dang it. I just got back from a road trip, and I'm just now seeing that the town we went to had a Microcenter... like, two blocks from where we were. Had I read this comment yesterday, I'd be testing out a new keyboard right now. And also have explored a Microcenter, which just sounds like a good time.
I mean, I don't think ortholinear is very ergonomic (more than standard, but less than many other layouts/keyboards out there), but it would still be fun to have/mess around with for a bit.
No way this is ergonomic
You are wrong
Sure, columnar split ergo boards would be easier to type on, but this already has better ergonomics than ANSI/ISO layouts.
Consider this: If you need to use arrow keys, you need to put your hand on the side and then back on the home row. If you made a mistake, you need to shift your entire right palm to reach the Backspace key. If you need to hit Esc, same thing. Pinkies have a lot of keys on them, and most of them require shifting your entire hands, while your two thumbs share only one key, so each pinky has 12-17 keys, while the thumbs have 0.5 keys. Thumbclusters are one of the best ways to improve ergonomics, if a split ergo columnar board doesn't have thumb clusters, it's not that ergo anymore.
@@aebisdecunter the main problem is with the linearity of the rows and the columns, though. Fingers are not equally long and perfectly next to each other.
Then what key is bound where is a completely different question.
@@susseduud Columar stagger and concave keywells certainly offer better comfort, but ortho is better than row staggered keyboards, especially bigger ones (TKL, 104 key) without layer support.
all the ergo guys agree with you if you want to look through the comments again lol
April Fool's was 2 months ago, Dave
What?
@HuwRees my thoughts exactly
I had the same thought.
thus, we can easily conclude that this is not an april fools joke.
...(??)
😂 I was literally just thinking the whole video....why? 😅
I think Dave is confusing two things here: the reason his wrists don’t feel sore isn’t because the board is ortholinear, but because it’s a small 40% board that doesn’t require you to move your wrists as much. A staggered 40% keyboard would have the exact same benefit. Ortho is mainly an aesthetical difference.
Ortho also helps here since you don't have to reach as much. It's a combination. Split would be the obvious upgrade from here
Wait till he finds out about split keybs
Or ortho split keyboards
most splits are ortho though. If you're in the business of ergonomics then ortho is the only way I guess
@@BinauralBaeor columnar split keebs
"Just 90WPM. No big deal."
90 is pretty average for someone that works with computers for a living.
@@isaackvasager9957 🤓
look at the software hes using, no punctiation, no capital letters, very short easy words. his 100wpm are probably more like 60
Naturally there’s a divergence of keyboard users where on one side you have people who type like literally pages of pages each day over hours literally using all keys to form words, and those who mainly use keyboards with hotkeys in repetitive workflows such as CAD users or number heavy lines of work. A single style of keyboard such as orthos will eventually diverge naturally as it adapts to the style of the user. You can’t give an accountant a gamer focused keyboard, a video editor a writer’s keyboard etc it just wouldn’t work. It can even hurt the user over time.
"What if I made a keyboard... But I made it a pain in the ass to use!" - average keyboard head
But, crucially, not a pain in the wrists!
“What if I made a comment… but only watched like 1% of the video” - average YT commenter
Just needing the layer shift to access certain keys would drive me crazy. Imagine typing a report with numbers and needing to switch constantly
@@avonireLayers literally make numbers easier to type than on keyboards with separate number keys. Instead of reaching two rows up, I hold a thumb key and have the numbers on the home row where my fingers already are.
@@avonireGuess you never type CAPITALS or symbols. It’s much faster typing EvEN in WEIrd mIXes oF CApS because it’s very practical, compared to reaching up to f-keys, numpad, etc. Compare this with fiddling with far away keys.
I could never type with a legend less keyboard lol
touch typing, around 1h for 21days and you'll be on the same speed
cause they don't teach it in school anymore
@don_juant yes, they do.
@@isaackvasager9957 it depends on the country
@@fajarkurniawan9434 america is the only country that matters.
It would drive me insane typing on something like this lol.
Changing muscle memory of over 20+ years of typing is too much work for me at this point.
Depend of the original finger movement
Ortho really punish you really hard if you already have bad finger movement that you grew accustomed
It's a good way to make sure other people don't use your computer though. That and use the Logitech MX Ergo as your mouse.
I promise you it's not that hard!
time to learn Dvorak next Dave!
I tried for a bit. It seemed way too hard lol
no no no, colemak-dh is optimized for orthos
@@darukutsu i do intend to learn colemak next after mastering dvorak! why is it better optimized for ortho?
@@Dave2D haha same advice like your friend mentioned for switching to ortho! just gotta keep at it until you can reach your regular speed and now i enjoy typing in dvorak more as the hand alternation makes typing much more enjoyable in my opinion
@@TaehaTypes I just heard/read somewhere about it, mod was created in 2015 i think they have different styles for ANSI, ISO, ORTHO... when you look into hot map, you will see something like this:
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
* * * * - - * * * *
- - - * - - * - - -
what a delight to see a new video coming from Dave2D
You should try the Glove80 :)
Funny, I bought the Voyager last week and can confirm that it's super HARD to re-learn everything after decades of typing!
Me too 🤝
I also committed to learn a new keyboard layout (Engram) straight away. I'm at 15 wpm and it's very painful 😅 But I'm 100% convinced it's going to be a game changer in the long run.
@@ferdinandmaximilian_I.I am one month into engram too with my Dygma Defy 😅 I was 80wpm and now I am still at 40 😂
There's a nerve in our body that starts in the brain, goes down our neck and comes back up to our mouth, because we used to be fish once.
(It is same for giraffes with their long ass necks)
There are much more ergonomic keyboards such as the corne (also 42 keys) these keyboards adds a couple of changes to the planck:
- Each of the rows for the fingers is staggered to consider the different lengths of each finger
- The keyboard is split so that you can place the halves further apart to avoid being cramped
- The thumb keys curve outwards
Yep, the corne is wonderful.
just waiting to come up with 40% split columns staggered keyboard like Corne xD
Was looking for this XD
I have my Kyria and looking now for a sweep wireless corne
Can't wait for the 20% keyboards to come out next year!
We had 'em 40+ years ago, see: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorded_keyboard
that's just stenography
it's so powerful it's the only method of typing that can keep up with human speech - that's why they use it in courts
I've used a 35% as a daily board for quite a while now. I'm not interested in getting rid of a whole row yet, but I couldn't see it being that hard.
There's already a layout for this. It's called the butter stick.
Dave2D, This is fantastic! I subscribed right away!
I've been curious for so long about these "Doys" keycaps. I couldn't find anything online about them; barely a photo of them on keyboards. Thank you for making a video on them. Clears up so much confusion!
So happy to see some 40s love, but I got news for you, there's no stopping now.
See you at 30% split col stag!
30% GANG
I love that you tried ortho! I'm an ortho user myself. I would say, however, that it's *not* inherently more *ergonomic*. The real benefits are, as I see them:
- Muscle memory. Columns are in proper columns instead of shifty diagonals, making it simpler to know exactly which key you are reaching for.
- Size. That Planck you have demonstrates this pretty well.
- The ability to map a numpad or other grid-oriented layouts to a function key and not have the stagger make it weird.
Oh also, I think people who touch type (use their pinkies and adhere to the proper columns) will have an easier time with the transition. That's just my anecdotal observation.
As for why you're feeling less strain when using ortho, are you perhaps touch typing now? I wonder if touch typing is inherently easier on the wrists.
I have custom designed 86 row ortho
No more dealing with pesky layering unless I need to access mouse mode
You don't even know where to put your fingers lmfao, it doesn't have any letters.
@@sklynexd you type while watching the keycaps?
That's kinda sad.
@@sklynexd It has indentations on F and J, you just feel for them.
@@sklynexd that's just the aesthetic choice Dave made; doesn't really have anything to do with ortho.
I type normally around 110-115 with 1 to 3 max mistakes, but after seeing this video, it now makes sense about the even column / even row set up..
Definitely going to try ASAP. Thanks Dave!
So happy that a mainstream tech RUclipsr is talking about orthopedic boards. I’ve been using boards like these for 5 or so years and have moved into more strange looking split boards in the later years and I really believe they don’t get enough love. More talk about these will hopefully help with the prices so I can convince more friends to get into these. Aiming for a future where one day all laptops have ortholinear layouts as well 👍🏼
It almost doesn't look like a keyboard
I hate small keyboards. Those are way too small.
Glad you found this. I've been using he ZSA Voyager, struggled to learn it for about 2 months, and now I would hate to go back to staggered layouts.
the punch to the screen when playing is so relatable mostly if it's due to a bad keyboard lol
If you're going to go crazy on unconventional keyboards, why not go Dvorak or Colemak?
"You must unlearn what you have learned" Yoda
Not gonna happen for me, been typing 40 plus years on the old style and I'm fine with it.
The number pad comparison really sold it to me. I think I wanna try learning that keyboard now.
great vid Dave!
I still wonder why Dave went through a long, messy hair phase and then came right back to where he started!
probably just craving some change. i do it too from time to time. unfortunately, I no longer can grow my hair as long as him.
everyone I've ever known to have long hair get its cut short eventually.
Summer
Dyed them too. His white hairs all of a sudden disappeared..
@@mauree1618 After that it's so hard to go back to longer hair, too.
This is not an ergonomic keyboard. This is just a bad keyboard that looks unique.
fr fr
Eh, probably not worse than a full size/standard layout. Luckily, not nearly as much of a jump to get used to a split column stagger proper ergo board.
Never really thought about switching, but this made me think about it! When I have some spare money, I may really try it.
Every single video of you makes me remember how good you are.
The editing, the photography, the shooting, the script even the B-roll.
No views in 16 seconds?
My bro fell hard 😢
1 minute, still below 1k view. sad
the passion in this video, nice
Been a keyboard enthusiast for a long time now, and I think this video made me want to try the push to ortholinear
Typing on Lego bricks isn't something I expected to see when I woke up today
I love it when you listen to your friends advice and find out the reason and improved upon it, you were not feisty to post the bad review but you find find out whats wrong with you, love it, love your reviews, keep going 😊
Thanks Dave. Welcome to the ortho club. Been using ortho for years. In time switching from one to another gets easier. I’m trying to learn steno from a ortho too, just allow chording and bind a different layer.
This is where those long skinny alien fingers evolve from. Thanks dave!
Your journey with the Ortho keyboard was really captivating. Making the shift from the traditional to a completely new layout, chipping away at years of muscle memory. Testament to the strength of human adaptability.
Great report on your experience learning the ortholinear layout. I did the same journey myself, with the much larger Moonlander columnar split keyboard. I also have a Planck, but I think it's too small for my hands. I prefer to have them spread across the table a bit more. That being said, I was already a good typist, using all my fingers mostly correctly. I knew it would be painful, and I knew it would require massive commitment, but I am also very anxious and impatient. I trained for a full weekend, more than 24 hours straight. And I was able to increase from the low 20s to around 80 wpm, which is already a very usable speed. Than I continued to train using websites like Monkeytype for the next few days until reaching my upper 90s again. It does take a while, you really have to commit, but it is doable. I was 44 years old when I did the jump, and I was successful. Since then I moved to smaller layouts like the Corne keyboard. Nowadays I am using the ZSA Voyager variant. It's almost perfect for me.
Dave, I got a blank ortho split keyboard last week (a Sofle), and managed to get to 95 wpm on QWERTY layout now. It does take time to get back up to speed (although there's still speedbumps when typing keys in other layers), and I'm currently experimenting with Colemak DH layout.
you should definitely try split keyboards, i'm now currently intrigued with keyboards with keyballs (attached trackballs), or even scroll encoders.
Thanks so much dave for making this video. Ive been enjoying ortholinear but theres not many options. Cheers🎉
Info for you: I bought a Vortex Core Keyboard a long time ago which is 40%. It took me about a week to get to grips with it and since then I've been using it every day and I love it. So it's worth spending some time on such small keyboards at the beginning.
I still have a couple of those in the stash. MX Clears and clicky blues. ole skool style.
Saw the thumbnail for this and literally said "yum" out load. Didn't know I was fiending for Dave2D content like that!
so do we need to relearn the typing on phone? virtual keyboard once we relearn on physical keyboard
The Qwerty layout is also designed to space out letters commonly used in the english language to minimize the risk of jamming the typewriter.
The Dvorak layout is specifically designed to maximize typing speed. but for the same reason as mentioned in the video, it is unlikely to replace Qwerty.
I got an Ortho keyboard (the Planck EZ - since discontinued), a couple years ago. The transition was instant, no pain in trying to switch over from the staggered layout for me. So YMMV.
I have the same milkshake key caps as the one in the beginning. That was kinda trippy
Kinesis Advantage 2 has literally changed my life, highly recommend for those with early onset conditions - took me about a month to fully acclimate but it was worth it and my pain is completely gone.
That being said I really cannot imagine this brick in the video being much of a comfort upgrade than a standard keyboard, seeing his hand position is painful.
Columnar-aligned keys reduces "reaching", which decreases fatigue some amount, but, yeah, split keyboards reduce ulnar deviation, which is a much bigger problem. Add tenting to reduce wrist pronation, and wrist rests to ensure your wrists are straight, to reduce wrist extension, and boom - pretty much a perfect typing experience. Some optimizations can be had, at that point, with a Dactyl layout, then a Manform structure, and then lighter key switches with shorter throw. *Then* it would be ultimate.
... I need to fix my 3D printer and get back on the project that I bought the thing for: making the keyboard i just described.
If you are going for best ergonomics, is there even a point for an ortho keyboard that is not split?
I would like to try an ortho split concave keyboard but they are all just overpriced, and I would probably need to buy at least 2 of them.
Product review and a history lesson. Nice.
You had us in the first half of the video.
Nice video.
I cant believe i'll live to see the day Dave2D covers an ortho mechanical keyboard
I've been using a Planck EZ for a couple years now and I feel handicaped when I have to use a regular keyboard. I'm not used to moving my hands anymore, just my fingers.
Hi Dave, what are your thoughts on Topre switches. I use a hhkb and find it awesome fir typing
@anyone
Are you now comfortable gaming with an ortho keyboard?
How is it with games that use a lot of keybinds?
I use a ZSA Moonlander, and when I use my work laptop it just feels terrible. Especially since I set the Moonlander so the shift is on the F and J row so my pinky does not have stretch across and down to get to it. With the shift key where it is, and the space and enter key on the thumb cluster my fingers almost never leave the home row.
This video came at a good time! I just started using an Iris Rev 8 which is an ortholinear ergo split keyboard and it's currently hell to type on but hoping in the near future my WPM is back to normal.
A split (2 parts + a numpad if needed) Ortho layout + Hall effect Switches + either a display on each key that changes with the layers or a app that visually shows the layers on screen is my dream.
How will you go back to staggered formation keyboards now?
the cutaway depictions of rage are *chef's kiss* Dave. thank you
Beautiful keyboard. I want to try 40% someday
Is there a full size keyboard version of this Ortho keyboard?
I noticed that too when I was high school and had only a type writer available for book reports. The key travel was difficult to break away from once I had a computer though lol.
Would this be more or less ergonomic than an ergonomic alice keyboard?
I use an Ortho layout (in fact I'm typing this on one I designed myself in KiCAD) and I'll honestly say that the time commitment wasn't as crazy as I expected when I picked up my first Planck kit. After about a week I had my accuracy back, and after about two weeks, I had my speed back to go with it. While I do still type on staggered keyboards (mostly laptops, at work), I can't imagine going back to one full time. The lack of hand fatigue from long typing sessions on this is worth the price of time you pay to get comfortable with it.
Corne with chocs, split, ortho, ergo, blank keys. Way smaller and more portable, 32 layers, can be tented and moved apart for way more ergo comfort. You are heavily pronated on a 1 piece keyboard, splitting it solves this and lets you angle the halves to whatever works for you or even tent if you want to.
I miss Dave's mad scientist hair phase
I’m using ZSA Moonlander keyboard and totally love it. Split, columnar staggered layout.
Are the ortho PCBs and plates not universal? I ordered a set of these keycaps with a YMDK Idobao 75 kit, and the 2U keycaps don't fit :(
When you said, "if keyboards were invented today...", my mind went straight to the CharaChorder One
Imagine you've learned to use this layout, but you still have to use the regular keyboard on you laptop or some other device, switching between the two. That sounds like fun.
Where's my ortho 40% keyboard gang at??? Dave is tumbling down the rabbit hole fast 🎉🎉
Since I didn't see anyone mention them, putting in a word for the Keyboardio Atreus (using one right now) and their Model 100, both are split with staggered columns.
I am looking for a keyboard which is ergonomic and can be separated into 2 parts, so the hands and shoulders arent crammed together all the time. Best would be if the 2 half keyboard were wireless also.
Unfortunately, nobody sells such a keyboard.
Dave, I hope you don’t feel like all the people recommending split keyboards are trying to discredit you. Moving from row stagger to ortholinear is a step toward the world of ergo keyboards that shouldn’t be ignored! I think this is a good keyboard video to make.
However, everyone including me is commenting about this to help you continue on this path toward ergonomics and minimal finger movements, and definitely the next step is to try out split, columnar keyboards. Hope I’ll be seeing a follow up soon :)
PS there’s a lot of more affordable options out there! Glad you’re bringing this to the mainstream as well
Welcome to the keeb master race. It’s a massive rabbit hole. It gets so much better than this but good start
how the heck has dave of all people never heard of the split keebs, das crazy
This is interesting. I also remember hearing somewhere that the letters aren’t in order row by row because old type writers would get jammed if people typed too fast (apparently a more jumbled layout slowed them down successfully). Not sure if that is true but the court stenographer keyboard makes me think there is something to it.
Curious if a columnar (non orto) split keyboard like the ZSA Voyager would be more comfortable / natural for you. Tried it?
I did the same thing - cannot believe more companies haven't offered this as an option, it just makes sense
It doesn't. Not much better than original staggered (unless split), and you can say goodbye to your expensive cherry artisan keycap since you can't substitute the key from another row and make it not look horrible.
I never thought I'd see the day that Dave finally gets into proper smol keyboards. Catch you guys in 3 years when he makes a QAZ video at long last.
What's the keyboard at the beginning of the video?