My theory about viego's transformation ability is that he doesn't actually transform into other champions he just possesses their corpses and reanimating them like undead and he loses his psysical appearance because he literally possess your body.
yeah. i think the fantasy of taking someone else's body is visually represented by viego transforming into the killed champion. though it does kinda look like viego's just transforming himself into that champion, if we consider the problem of controlling another player's character, i feel like this is the closest we can get.
@@Thesmus yeahh. it's the same thing as Yone E, and could use a visual aid for that. Imagine if Viego left behind his body visibly, but untargetable (just doing evil overlord commander pose). You could even snap back to that location when the "domination" ends, but- ok this is an awful mechanic that still would maybe fix his chain killing potential going rampant.
there was a leak a long while ago of Neeko in project L, and while it obviously could be fake (probably is cause she’s not that popular) she was apparently a mix of rush down and zoning, and her like “super” was that she’d copy her opponent which tbf of the 3 champs that could do that Neeko makes the most sense, Viego has to kill them first and Sylas just takes the ult (which they totally could do for him if the Neeko leak is true, just don’t let her use their “super” like Viego can’t in LoL)
@@TTMILKYTT viego does not need to kill people to possess them in lore. Thats just the way his possession is adapted to work in League without being awful to play against due to people losing control of their character while alive
Make him a grappler, he could be similar to Potemkin where although he is a grappler he has some pretty THICC normals like his 6H, Blitz could even have a slow and reactable fullscreen commandgrab that deals almost no damage but pulls the enemy in his grappler range.
@@georgegkoumas5026 in the love of God, please, no, just...no. If he's a grappler, that would be extremely Op, especially when his hsnds are litterly EXTENDABLE, like bro imagine a grappler with LONG RANGED GRAP, I'd quit the game immediately
@@terra-oni3366 I really doubt that would be OP. Most long ranged grabs in fighting games that I can think of aren't op or are just straight up bad. One example is in GG Strive Sol has a super grab where does a fast dash across the entire screen and it's considered one of the worst supers in the game. I imagine Blitzcrank could have a similar move but instead of dashing he would just extend his arms. The only way something like this could be op is if the devs are just plain stupid.
@@terra-oni3366 ever played Guilty Gear? Potemkin sometimes is a zoner with his extreme ranged normals yet he is still a "low tier" grappler. Potemkin also has a fullscreen low that can be countered the same way as Axl's full screen grab (but ofc it can also be low blocked unlike Axl's grab). Backdashing and jumping works in both. Also Potemkin's Command grab has a lot of range on its own and on top of that Potemkin is usually utilizing a technique that allows him to dash a little bit forward on every special move of his including the Command grab. On top of that he can also add the game's mechanic of Fast Drift Roman Cancels to gain even more space doing so. The result is one of the greatest Speed/Range ratios for a 40% damage Command grab. Potemkin is still considered low tier.
@@jojak0512 True, although Sol stole that Super idea from Akuma's iconic Sun Goku Satsu (Raging Demon) which has the exact same problem of being one of the only supers in the game that you cannot combo into and at the same time you can jump to avoid it on reaction even if you were hit before it (minor exceptions if Akuma does his signature Kara Sun Goku Satsu in SFIII 3rd Strike). Also there can be actually useful and hard to react fullscreen command grabs, but not on grapplers or other close range beasts. For example Axl's iconic command grab and Goku Black's command grab in DBFZ. In Axl's case it is much usefull but it doesn't give him a 50/50 death mixup on hit and the recovery is so much that a wiff could be counterhit punished from fullscreen. In Goku's case the command grab would be broken if it was any other game, but in DBFZ you are pretty much always airborne and neutral is inexistent so it becomes useless.
Just to mention with the cool down idea. Typically fighting games do have that.. in a sense. The frames usually. X start up frames and X - after frames. So spamming some moves may open you up too long. Games like Guilty Gear Strive also introduce 2 features to help : 1.) There is some resource meters for certain characters (*glares at Happy Chaos with his pistol spam*) where they have X amount of magic or bullets until they reload / channel (Idea for Ryze ~). 2.) They reward / punish. Example : "You spam X safe move too often, now you are in "NEGATIVE" which usually means each move takes a frame or more to do. Especially the same move"
Based on the game the Cannon brothers worked on prior to Riot's Project L, they probably will have implemented a cooldown based ability system similar to League.
@@josuoh9888 it makes sense and I'd probably like that because with the one button special moves, I don't wanna fight Darius if he can anti-air me with Apprehend EVERY. SINGLE. TIME I jump without cooldown.
@@Korinengamecorp Most fighting games cap that off by creating a more complex input system (i.e. quarter circles, combos, half circles) which would be awful on pc because of macros.
The single one I'd love to see would be Wukong. He has a staff to get a longer reach, is a trickster, and fills a special place in character design. I'd play wu first of all if he get's in
For reference, basically all traditional fighting games have a metre system which is built by doing attacks to limit that kind of op spam gameplay since your stronger attacks take a portion of your metre which you then have to build up again. There was also one fighting game called GranBlue Fantasy Versus which used a cooldown system which did work but it is very different to the usual system which already works if implemented correctly and is, of course, a deviation from the system that has been in place for decades so it is understandable both developers and players are apprehensive of adopting a new system. Hope this helps!
there's already fighting games with assists (marvel vs capcom, skullgirls, dragonball fighterz) so it'd probably work the same as that were you have an assist button, you can press it to call an assist for them to throw out a single move, or hold it out to tag out into that assist character
Zoners only become a problem if their zoning tools are way too good which means their activation frames, recovery frames, and hit frames are all too good.. Deadshot became a problem because the hit stuns are too much that he recovers while you're still on hit stun plus his normal attacks are also too good.. zoners are supposed to be terrible when fighting up close but Deadshot can fight up close really well that there's no downside for him..
Cooldowns aren't a thing in most fighting games because it's an extremely fast game and usually fighting players are usually expected to just go around every move
The whole 4 abilities with cooldown is actually a system implemented in Granblue Fantasy Versus. All your special moves except ultimate have a little cooldown depending on the strenght you use the move (light, medium, heavy, increasing cooldowns) and it works pretty well, especially paired up with the easy imputs in that game and the visuals. It's my favorite FG so far, i just keep hoping for rollback netcode...
Btw jumping over a character is never an issue, cause the collision box always allows to jump over, like in DBFZ small characters can jump over broly standing up with no superjump
figthing game archetipes are like roles in league. a rushdown character is a character that do many combos and quick atacks and need to get close to unleash is power, charger is a character that have strong atack or movemensts that need to be prepared and lauch at the rigth time, a zoner is a charater that try to keep away the eenmys with proyectiles or traps, a grappler is generally a tanky character with strong graple or close range atacks, etc
There are so many champions that would be a great fit... Kayn could be amazing in concept. Sett and Riven are simply mandatory. In the end we will not have 100+ champions in the beginning but over time I'm sure riot will keep supporting Project L until we have tons of champions. Although, I think unlike LoR, project L champion development is somewhat similar to LoL's so we will never have a "complete" roster compared to LoL. Whereas LoR and Wild Rift will probably achieve this soon enough
Kayn would be so cool! I’m thinking like how in smash bros with Joker you have to build up a meter to get Arsene, with Kayn you have to maybe build a meter to then choose between Shadow Assasin or Rhaast. Or maybe it’s like league where you can choose who to go for based on combos? Like maybe combos in the air give you Shadow assasin and combos that include ducking give you Rhaast? I think that would be cool. And maybe Rhaast and Shadow assasin aren’t permanent in the match either. I don’t think that would be much fun if it was so instead they are a limited times boost? Like an ultimate attack or something idk. I’m thinking like Shadow assasin can teleport anywhere on the screen, with a recharge of course or specific combo meter needed.(maybe regular kayn can teleport near his opponent in any direction, unless they are on the ground then he can’t teleport under) and maybe Rhaast heals you for a percent amount of damage you deal to the enemy while in that form? And of course the ultimate attack for Kayn would be his ultimate but if you use the ultimate in one of his forms then it changes a little? Like shadow assasin does a lot more dmg if hit at a certain spot? And Rhaast heals? Idk
my current theory is that on release we will have anywhere from 10 to 12 heroes on launch for context we had 10 Agents on launch for valorant. The reason I say 10 to 12 is because of the tag system. this would give you a healthy amount of combos. However yeah little by little they will add more
On the topic of CDs on FGs, Granblue Versus has a cooldown mechacnic for its special moves that varies depending how you perform the special move (one-button special or a full motion) and depending on the power (ex move or not). I could honestly see that in Project L, but at the same time that made GBVS a really slow game, so I would prefer not to have cooldowns...
Eventually a good majority of the champions will be in including the darkin and Ryze. However, I think at the beginning it will cater more to the people who actually play fighting games, and those guys pay less attention to lore than how the champion looks and how the champion plays in a fighting game. So while sett, samira, thresh, braum, Fiora would all be good shouts. Ryze is probably not going to be in at the start. I am going to suggest one more though based on a leak going around and who would actually be well received by the fighting game community - Kindred
34:00 In melty Blood there is a charcter that only gets 10 black keys(projectiles) per round and in Smash Ultimate Banjo's side special is limited to 5 per stock, so there are abilities with ahrd caps
Alright Necrit,if you want to grab some feeling of assist or tag fighter i would recommend Power Rangers Battle For The Grid, because the game has one button special with directional button to perform other special,so in someway the game will feel kinda the same like project L.
I'm not a League player but after Project L was revealed I went to look at the League roster to see who I would want on the roster. If I could choose 5 characters to add in they would be Vi, Lee Sin, Talon, Samira and either Fiora or Warwick. Also I was able to play Project L at Evo and doing so has made the wait for the full game exponentially more painful. From the 4 available characters I can say that right now, I'm either a Yasuo main or an Ahri main.
So i kind of bounced off of fighting games because they are usually very frustrating to learn , but i learned enough about them that i can help with some of your confusion about the genre. For you thinking a tag team fighter looks chaotic , that's because it is. I think the reason they chose that style of game is it adds a level of experimentation and variety to a fighting game when most that a FG can normally do is just picking different characters , and another factor is that tag fighters generally tend to get alot of depth out of that chaos without raising the skill floor too much other than making you learn more than one character to start (and i suspect this game might have a solo character mode to help beginners) . the assists themselves are balanced(sort of) by having a cooldown , whether or not specials have a cooldown. As for character archetypes the core three types of them are rushdown , zoners(ranged) , and grapplers/heavyweights . Rushdowns are the aggro characters of fighting games ( they tend to be like 50% to 75% of a roster depending on the game ) they try to get in their opponents face and hit them with either fast attacks or mixups . Heavyweights/Grapplers are kind of the hardest to explain , grapplers are just defined by having a command grab but almost all them are also big and vice versa for big characters, while big characters tend to play a bit of a slower game trying to power through everything until they get to their opponent . Zoners are just characters with good range and that often turns them into essentially a control deck in a fighting game ,as well as forcing their opponent to take risky approaches to get in . Zoners also include shotos which are the well rounded characters in fighting games , since a projectile does a pretty good job of expanding their kit , traditionally most fighting games have literal shotos (ryu's fighting style from street fighter) but i dont know if this game is just going to rip characters from other fighting games like most do. there is also more sub-archetypes like setup character or puppet character but those are more specific and rare. also you are going to have to get used to old school fighting game players being jerks about you not knowing about old school fighting games , they are going to be like the dota players for this game , except the FGC is 100X more annoying
Cooldowns in a fighting game does exist. One example is Granblue Fantasy VS. Each character has 4 "ability moves" that once used go on cooldown. However this was done to balance what is still debated to this day, "motion inputs". In Granblue Fantasy VS, you can do special moves such as fireballs (like Hadoken) or dragon punch uppercuts (like shoryuken) with a just special button and direction. However if you do the actual input to do a fireball (down, forward down, forward) the cooldown to reuse that special move is reduced. The thing is yes, zoning is annoying but this can be equalised by having amazing movement in the game. We've seen Ekkos movement and direction mixups so I think closing in on your opponent shouldn't be too hard. We trust the developers of this game to know these kinds of things for the type of audience this game is for.
33:47 it's because those special moves were only unlocked behind an input, That was how fighting games were balanced back in the day. I recommend core a gaming's video on motion inputs and why they still exist. Although I'm pretty sure project L might have special move system similar to power rangers battle for the grid where no quarter circle motions are needed to do special moves.
There were two fighting games with cooldowns on specials. Rising thunder and Granblue Versus. Not sure about Fantasy Strike, only one character had cooldowns I think
(35:00) The best way to balance a zoning character to be less annoying is to make their projectiles cost meter. Meter is accumulated over time by hitting or being hit, so it will reward said zoner for actually playing the game whilst keeping their identity as a zoner intact with just more commitment than simply pressing the button.
I disagree, the best way is to just make zoners hard to play. You can do this by making the moveset weird as fuck or have their motion inputs be hard. (This isn't something that can be used for PL since there's no Motion inputs)
Nah, tying a character's basic form of attack to meter is usually just a bad idea. The actual best way to make zoners less annoying is to make approaching them better. With more options for movement, offence, and defense it makes it so that both players actually have to always think rather than it boiling down to the zoner spamming moves and the other player waiting until they can walk forward.
To the question of having cooldowns in fighting game. There are two games that have that. DNF duel has a manacost system in order to have a limiter for ability spam, but Grand Blue Fantasy Versus actualy has a cooldown system. But the problem for both of those games is that both flopped. DNF duel died for it's own reasons but I have seen a lot of comments about Grand Blue kinda died because it was slow and didn't allow yourself to do cool combos. So I feel like that since we have two games with these "ability limiters" that failed at being successful, I doubt that Riot will go there
Since arcane is a big inspiration I would love to see arcane characters but not league of legends characters like sevika. She has a really cool design with taking shimmer to boost herself up and her robotic arm that’s a sword and can shoot out slashes. Would be really fresh to see that.
So about the skills Neceit is talking about for Project L, KOF and MvC2 has already done this. Using diff execution for spending gauge levels. Each gauge could be Q,W,E. Or special button + direction. Then spending them all can be the ultimate.
I feel like it would be a shame not to have Sejuani. She'd make an excellent heavy hitter and the combo potential of her flail/bola thing just seems like fun. And getting to run people over with Bristle.
34:30 I'm sorry, did you mean Granblue versus? There's a system where FOUR of your specials have a cooldown, but you can also enhance those specials without using your ultimate meter. However, that increases the cooldown of your normal specials. The game is not slow, however, at least not from what I have seen.
About the no darkin thing: after the last 2 lor expansions and the darkin event happening right now on wild rift, I'm pretty sure riot will release them in an event lol
Shen and Zed would be like scorpion and sub zero. It makes sense to put them both in the game. I'd also like to see poppy (and basically every other brawler.) Jinx is a weird one to put in the game, but Vi would be perfect. The darkin could be saved for an expansion.
I’m just holding out hope my boy Renekton will be a playable character, he’s just one of those characters who would fit so perfectly into a fighting game.
I personally would go for 3 per region. 1 zone, 1 grapple and 1 combo/offensive for each region.(for starters at least) Noxus : Swain ,Mordekaiser, Samira Demacia: Vayne, Galio, Jarvan Zaun: Renata, Warwick, Vi Piltover: Cait, Cammile, Jayce Shurima: Xerath, Renekton, Taliyah Bilgewater: Illaoi, Nautilus, Pyke Ionia: Zed, Sett, Yasuo Shadow Isles: Vex, Thresh, Gwen Freljord: Lissandra, Gragas, Olaf Void: Velkoz, Reksai, Belveth Targon: A. Sol, Leona, Pantheon Also some honorable mentions of other archetypes: Mimic: Neeko and Viego( for him I can even imagine the intro being a different champion before he stabs them in the back and possessing them) Puppet: Orianna, Yorick Stance changer: Udyr, Nidalee Reversal : Fiora, Jax Shoto: Lee Sin Charge up: Braum , Sion Joke characters: Amumu, Rammus
34:40 That could work maybe, but Fighting games are really fast, specially tag teams. And also managing multiple reworks in a fighting game would be annoying, and having icons showing cooldowns would be annoying too.
or here's a thought...install a regular adblocker on your browser? I do that because im not giving a single £ of mine to youtube after everything they've done.
Yea I think Poppy would be best as a rush down Yordle and plus she’s a great rep for them in general. Gnar would be cool as a transformation character but idk I want someone who embodies Yordles of the present.
48:00 Maybe I'll say a stupid thing, but we already have an example of LoR, where we were presented with a unique champion, so why is the L project worse? Darkin won't necessarily be one of those that are in LoL, they can take anyone from LoR.
Even with Tekken 8 releasing soon, it shouldn't be an issue for Projec L or even the new SF, since the game plays different than the other 2. It plays like MvC.
Seems like there technically isn't anyone from piltover on this list either , Victor could be interesting 🤷 but the rosters already potentially been leaked not gunna spoil it here in comments but yeah for sure some changes I'd like to see as far as spoiled leaked roster.
Blitz is an easy drop for starting roster, especially since Thresh covers some of that long range grappler moveset. The roster needs Riven. Riven is Sett tier of "this is a fighting game character. "
I'm surprised RUclipsrs don't just all have or buy RUclips premium no adds is nice for viewing and to my knowledge still supports creators in some way like it has to right ? lol 😅
teachnically aatrox could fit the accurate size model for project L but i wouldnt mind any other darkin from LOR especially someone like ibaaros or joraal
My theory about viego's transformation ability is that he doesn't actually transform into other champions he just possesses their corpses and reanimating them like undead and he loses his psysical appearance because he literally possess your body.
yeah. i think the fantasy of taking someone else's body is visually represented by viego transforming into the killed champion. though it does kinda look like viego's just transforming himself into that champion, if we consider the problem of controlling another player's character, i feel like this is the closest we can get.
@@Thesmus yeahh. it's the same thing as Yone E, and could use a visual aid for that. Imagine if Viego left behind his body visibly, but untargetable (just doing evil overlord commander pose). You could even snap back to that location when the "domination" ends, but- ok this is an awful mechanic that still would maybe fix his chain killing potential going rampant.
there was a leak a long while ago of Neeko in project L, and while it obviously could be fake (probably is cause she’s not that popular) she was apparently a mix of rush down and zoning, and her like “super” was that she’d copy her opponent which tbf of the 3 champs that could do that Neeko makes the most sense, Viego has to kill them first and Sylas just takes the ult (which they totally could do for him if the Neeko leak is true, just don’t let her use their “super” like Viego can’t in LoL)
How tf is this a "theory"???? The tooltip for his passive literally calls it possession, what else would it be???
@@TTMILKYTT viego does not need to kill people to possess them in lore. Thats just the way his possession is adapted to work in League without being awful to play against due to people losing control of their character while alive
I kinda wish qiyana would make it to the roster since she's just tyra in soul calibur. But then again, no. But at least kindred finally get some love
True
I love Blitzcrank, if they do add him I hope they give him their own version/style of Blitzcrank
Make him a grappler, he could be similar to Potemkin where although he is a grappler he has some pretty THICC normals like his 6H, Blitz could even have a slow and reactable fullscreen commandgrab that deals almost no damage but pulls the enemy in his grappler range.
@@georgegkoumas5026 in the love of God, please, no, just...no. If he's a grappler, that would be extremely Op, especially when his hsnds are litterly EXTENDABLE, like bro imagine a grappler with LONG RANGED GRAP, I'd quit the game immediately
@@terra-oni3366 I really doubt that would be OP. Most long ranged grabs in fighting games that I can think of aren't op or are just straight up bad. One example is in GG Strive Sol has a super grab where does a fast dash across the entire screen and it's considered one of the worst supers in the game. I imagine Blitzcrank could have a similar move but instead of dashing he would just extend his arms. The only way something like this could be op is if the devs are just plain stupid.
@@terra-oni3366 ever played Guilty Gear? Potemkin sometimes is a zoner with his extreme ranged normals yet he is still a "low tier" grappler. Potemkin also has a fullscreen low that can be countered the same way as Axl's full screen grab (but ofc it can also be low blocked unlike Axl's grab). Backdashing and jumping works in both. Also Potemkin's Command grab has a lot of range on its own and on top of that Potemkin is usually utilizing a technique that allows him to dash a little bit forward on every special move of his including the Command grab. On top of that he can also add the game's mechanic of Fast Drift Roman Cancels to gain even more space doing so. The result is one of the greatest Speed/Range ratios for a 40% damage Command grab. Potemkin is still considered low tier.
@@jojak0512 True, although Sol stole that Super idea from Akuma's iconic Sun Goku Satsu (Raging Demon) which has the exact same problem of being one of the only supers in the game that you cannot combo into and at the same time you can jump to avoid it on reaction even if you were hit before it (minor exceptions if Akuma does his signature Kara Sun Goku Satsu in SFIII 3rd Strike).
Also there can be actually useful and hard to react fullscreen command grabs, but not on grapplers or other close range beasts. For example Axl's iconic command grab and Goku Black's command grab in DBFZ. In Axl's case it is much usefull but it doesn't give him a 50/50 death mixup on hit and the recovery is so much that a wiff could be counterhit punished from fullscreen. In Goku's case the command grab would be broken if it was any other game, but in DBFZ you are pretty much always airborne and neutral is inexistent so it becomes useless.
Just to mention with the cool down idea. Typically fighting games do have that.. in a sense. The frames usually. X start up frames and X - after frames. So spamming some moves may open you up too long. Games like Guilty Gear Strive also introduce 2 features to help : 1.) There is some resource meters for certain characters (*glares at Happy Chaos with his pistol spam*) where they have X amount of magic or bullets until they reload / channel (Idea for Ryze ~). 2.) They reward / punish. Example : "You spam X safe move too often, now you are in "NEGATIVE" which usually means each move takes a frame or more to do. Especially the same move"
Based on the game the Cannon brothers worked on prior to Riot's Project L, they probably will have implemented a cooldown based ability system similar to League.
Hey number 2 is in multiversus yeah i know a thing or two about fighting games totally
@@josuoh9888 it makes sense and I'd probably like that because with the one button special moves, I don't wanna fight Darius if he can anti-air me with Apprehend EVERY. SINGLE. TIME I jump without cooldown.
@@Korinengamecorp Most fighting games cap that off by creating a more complex input system (i.e. quarter circles, combos, half circles) which would be awful on pc because of macros.
None of the stuff you explained fits under the term cool downs. İf you want to see cool downs, look at granblue
The single one I'd love to see would be Wukong. He has a staff to get a longer reach, is a trickster, and fills a special place in character design. I'd play wu first of all if he get's in
Xiba
Ain't no way wukong wouldn't get in. He is the best marketing you can do toward the chinese playerbase, lol
For reference, basically all traditional fighting games have a metre system which is built by doing attacks to limit that kind of op spam gameplay since your stronger attacks take a portion of your metre which you then have to build up again. There was also one fighting game called GranBlue Fantasy Versus which used a cooldown system which did work but it is very different to the usual system which already works if implemented correctly and is, of course, a deviation from the system that has been in place for decades so it is understandable both developers and players are apprehensive of adopting a new system. Hope this helps!
there's already fighting games with assists (marvel vs capcom, skullgirls, dragonball fighterz) so it'd probably work the same as that were you have an assist button, you can press it to call an assist for them to throw out a single move, or hold it out to tag out into that assist character
this game looks super similar to bbtag the more we know about it
Zoners only become a problem if their zoning tools are way too good which means their activation frames, recovery frames, and hit frames are all too good.. Deadshot became a problem because the hit stuns are too much that he recovers while you're still on hit stun plus his normal attacks are also too good.. zoners are supposed to be terrible when fighting up close but Deadshot can fight up close really well that there's no downside for him..
There is no chip so… could be worse
deadshot was so cursed
Cooldowns aren't a thing in most fighting games because it's an extremely fast game and usually fighting players are usually expected to just go around every move
The whole 4 abilities with cooldown is actually a system implemented in Granblue Fantasy Versus. All your special moves except ultimate have a little cooldown depending on the strenght you use the move (light, medium, heavy, increasing cooldowns) and it works pretty well, especially paired up with the easy imputs in that game and the visuals. It's my favorite FG so far, i just keep hoping for rollback netcode...
hope ur happy !
@@dragocrafterr8286 I believed in victory and it paid off
This was so well done!! Nicky did a great job✨❤️
necrit: the only fighting game I've ever played is soulcaliber
also necrit: I've also played smash, tekken, and mortal combat
Btw jumping over a character is never an issue, cause the collision box always allows to jump over, like in DBFZ small characters can jump over broly standing up with no superjump
You can also check out Maximilian Dood's roster picks, he's a pretty big fighting games figure.
That would be cool
What dood?
As an avid skullgirls lover assist based fighting games are great.
As a skullgirls lover, I only play solo bb and cant really play anyone else
figthing game archetipes are like roles in league. a rushdown character is a character that do many combos and quick atacks and need to get close to unleash is power, charger is a character that have strong atack or movemensts that need to be prepared and lauch at the rigth time, a zoner is a charater that try to keep away the eenmys with proyectiles or traps, a grappler is generally a tanky character with strong graple or close range atacks, etc
34:30 Granblue Fantasy Versus is a fighting game with cool downs on their special moves. Not sure if someone said it
There are so many champions that would be a great fit... Kayn could be amazing in concept. Sett and Riven are simply mandatory.
In the end we will not have 100+ champions in the beginning but over time I'm sure riot will keep supporting Project L until we have tons of champions. Although, I think unlike LoR, project L champion development is somewhat similar to LoL's so we will never have a "complete" roster compared to LoL. Whereas LoR and Wild Rift will probably achieve this soon enough
Kayn would be so cool! I’m thinking like how in smash bros with Joker you have to build up a meter to get Arsene, with Kayn you have to maybe build a meter to then choose between Shadow Assasin or Rhaast. Or maybe it’s like league where you can choose who to go for based on combos? Like maybe combos in the air give you Shadow assasin and combos that include ducking give you Rhaast? I think that would be cool. And maybe Rhaast and Shadow assasin aren’t permanent in the match either. I don’t think that would be much fun if it was so instead they are a limited times boost? Like an ultimate attack or something idk. I’m thinking like Shadow assasin can teleport anywhere on the screen, with a recharge of course or specific combo meter needed.(maybe regular kayn can teleport near his opponent in any direction, unless they are on the ground then he can’t teleport under) and maybe Rhaast heals you for a percent amount of damage you deal to the enemy while in that form? And of course the ultimate attack for Kayn would be his ultimate but if you use the ultimate in one of his forms then it changes a little? Like shadow assasin does a lot more dmg if hit at a certain spot? And Rhaast heals? Idk
my current theory is that on release we will have anywhere from 10 to 12 heroes on launch for context we had 10 Agents on launch for valorant. The reason I say 10 to 12 is because of the tag system. this would give you a healthy amount of combos. However yeah little by little they will add more
That vtuber model looks so good man
I think necrit should watch other youtubers about fg's so to understand the genre better
Thanks for making me very aware of how often I forget about my RUclips premium subscription
I love your new VTuber so much😭😭 So cute!!!
The timing on the ads were perfect xD
On the topic of CDs on FGs, Granblue Versus has a cooldown mechacnic for its special moves that varies depending how you perform the special move (one-button special or a full motion) and depending on the power (ex move or not). I could honestly see that in Project L, but at the same time that made GBVS a really slow game, so I would prefer not to have cooldowns...
love the ear animations on your vtubbber
Eventually a good majority of the champions will be in including the darkin and Ryze. However, I think at the beginning it will cater more to the people who actually play fighting games, and those guys pay less attention to lore than how the champion looks and how the champion plays in a fighting game. So while sett, samira, thresh, braum, Fiora would all be good shouts. Ryze is probably not going to be in at the start. I am going to suggest one more though based on a leak going around and who would actually be well received by the fighting game community - Kindred
34:00
In melty Blood there is a charcter that only gets 10 black keys(projectiles) per round and in Smash Ultimate Banjo's side special is limited to 5 per stock, so there are abilities with ahrd caps
Alright Necrit,if you want to grab some feeling of assist or tag fighter i would recommend Power Rangers Battle For The Grid, because the game has one button special with directional button to perform other special,so in someway the game will feel kinda the same like project L.
As I have played lots of Fighting games I’m so excited for Project L, honestly haven’t played a tag game in so long and I’m excited dude
MvC clash of superheroes is tag game, and thats what im always playing in winKawaks emulator 🤭
Hey guys when do you think the new trailer will drop? I thought today but if not I think at the Game Awards🤔
34:50 i feel like happy chaos is a good example and its a bit broken.
I'm not a League player but after Project L was revealed I went to look at the League roster to see who I would want on the roster. If I could choose 5 characters to add in they would be Vi, Lee Sin, Talon, Samira and either Fiora or Warwick. Also I was able to play Project L at Evo and doing so has made the wait for the full game exponentially more painful. From the 4 available characters I can say that right now, I'm either a Yasuo main or an Ahri main.
Oh no it's Nekitten. Run for your lifes
So i kind of bounced off of fighting games because they are usually very frustrating to learn , but i learned enough about them that i can help with some of your confusion about the genre.
For you thinking a tag team fighter looks chaotic , that's because it is. I think the reason they chose that style of game is it adds a level of experimentation and variety to a fighting game when most that a FG can normally do is just picking different characters , and another factor is that tag fighters generally tend to get alot of depth out of that chaos without raising the skill floor too much other than making you learn more than one character to start (and i suspect this game might have a solo character mode to help beginners) . the assists themselves are balanced(sort of) by having a cooldown , whether or not specials have a cooldown.
As for character archetypes the core three types of them are rushdown , zoners(ranged) , and grapplers/heavyweights . Rushdowns are the aggro characters of fighting games ( they tend to be like 50% to 75% of a roster depending on the game ) they try to get in their opponents face and hit them with either fast attacks or mixups . Heavyweights/Grapplers are kind of the hardest to explain , grapplers are just defined by having a command grab but almost all them are also big and vice versa for big characters, while big characters tend to play a bit of a slower game trying to power through everything until they get to their opponent . Zoners are just characters with good range and that often turns them into essentially a control deck in a fighting game ,as well as forcing their opponent to take risky approaches to get in . Zoners also include shotos which are the well rounded characters in fighting games , since a projectile does a pretty good job of expanding their kit , traditionally most fighting games have literal shotos (ryu's fighting style from street fighter) but i dont know if this game is just going to rip characters from other fighting games like most do.
there is also more sub-archetypes like setup character or puppet character but those are more specific and rare.
also you are going to have to get used to old school fighting game players being jerks about you not knowing about old school fighting games , they are going to be like the dota players for this game , except the FGC is 100X more annoying
Cooldowns in a fighting game does exist. One example is Granblue Fantasy VS. Each character has 4 "ability moves" that once used go on cooldown. However this was done to balance what is still debated to this day, "motion inputs".
In Granblue Fantasy VS, you can do special moves such as fireballs (like Hadoken) or dragon punch uppercuts (like shoryuken) with a just special button and direction. However if you do the actual input to do a fireball (down, forward down, forward) the cooldown to reuse that special move is reduced.
The thing is yes, zoning is annoying but this can be equalised by having amazing movement in the game. We've seen Ekkos movement and direction mixups so I think closing in on your opponent shouldn't be too hard. We trust the developers of this game to know these kinds of things for the type of audience this game is for.
Love it when the league lore people make content off each other's content!
the moment necrit complains about ads his own ad appears to me hahahaha
33:47 it's because those special moves were only unlocked behind an input, That was how fighting games were balanced back in the day. I recommend core a gaming's video on motion inputs and why they still exist. Although I'm pretty sure project L might have special move system similar to power rangers battle for the grid where no quarter circle motions are needed to do special moves.
man how much I would love it if they actually put neeko in the roster
Nobody realized it but they might add a valorant character in there or a LoR exclusive character in there as a guest character
Hey, why no ZOE in this projection?
Still sad about that.
There were two fighting games with cooldowns on specials. Rising thunder and Granblue Versus. Not sure about Fantasy Strike, only one character had cooldowns I think
Man I love Necrit's Vtuber model, it fits him so much xD
If I don't get to play Tahm Kench as a Grappler I'm not playing.
I keep watching just to see the new model!
Cooldowns in a tag fighter would be awful and design decision made around new players not getting annoyed never makes a fun long term game
(35:00) The best way to balance a zoning character to be less annoying is to make their projectiles cost meter. Meter is accumulated over time by hitting or being hit, so it will reward said zoner for actually playing the game whilst keeping their identity as a zoner intact with just more commitment than simply pressing the button.
I disagree, the best way is to just make zoners hard to play. You can do this by making the moveset weird as fuck or have their motion inputs be hard. (This isn't something that can be used for PL since there's no Motion inputs)
Nah, tying a character's basic form of attack to meter is usually just a bad idea. The actual best way to make zoners less annoying is to make approaching them better. With more options for movement, offence, and defense it makes it so that both players actually have to always think rather than it boiling down to the zoner spamming moves and the other player waiting until they can walk forward.
To the question of having cooldowns in fighting game. There are two games that have that. DNF duel has a manacost system in order to have a limiter for ability spam, but Grand Blue Fantasy Versus actualy has a cooldown system. But the problem for both of those games is that both flopped. DNF duel died for it's own reasons but I have seen a lot of comments about Grand Blue kinda died because it was slow and didn't allow yourself to do cool combos. So I feel like that since we have two games with these "ability limiters" that failed at being successful, I doubt that Riot will go there
Since arcane is a big inspiration I would love to see arcane characters but not league of legends characters like sevika. She has a really cool design with taking shimmer to boost herself up and her robotic arm that’s a sword and can shoot out slashes. Would be really fresh to see that.
So about the skills Neceit is talking about for Project L, KOF and MvC2 has already done this. Using diff execution for spending gauge levels. Each gauge could be Q,W,E. Or special button + direction. Then spending them all can be the ultimate.
I feel like it would be a shame not to have Sejuani. She'd make an excellent heavy hitter and the combo potential of her flail/bola thing just seems like fun. And getting to run people over with Bristle.
I feel like she's be a bit too clunky to work, especially since looks like the game is going to be fast.
They can put however they want, as long as Pantheon is included.
rising thunder and gran blue fantasy have implemented cooldowns for specials
Necrit ultras rise!!! Necrit supremacy!!
34:30 I'm sorry, did you mean Granblue versus? There's a system where FOUR of your specials have a cooldown, but you can also enhance those specials without using your ultimate meter. However, that increases the cooldown of your normal specials. The game is not slow, however, at least not from what I have seen.
There's a fighting game called fantasy strike that makes special moves have cd.
About the no darkin thing: after the last 2 lor expansions and the darkin event happening right now on wild rift, I'm pretty sure riot will release them in an event lol
Shen and Zed would be like scorpion and sub zero. It makes sense to put them both in the game. I'd also like to see poppy (and basically every other brawler.) Jinx is a weird one to put in the game, but Vi would be perfect. The darkin could be saved for an expansion.
Jax is all I need as a secret unlockable fighter
I’m just holding out hope my boy Renekton will be a playable character, he’s just one of those characters who would fit so perfectly into a fighting game.
The vtuber completely distarcted me with how cute it is
I'm pretty sure project L is going to have cooldowns for abilities, since that's what the original robot game had.
Sett is basically Steve Fox of Project L XDXD
I personally would go for 3 per region. 1 zone, 1 grapple and 1 combo/offensive for each region.(for starters at least)
Noxus : Swain ,Mordekaiser, Samira
Demacia: Vayne, Galio, Jarvan
Zaun: Renata, Warwick, Vi
Piltover: Cait, Cammile, Jayce
Shurima: Xerath, Renekton, Taliyah
Bilgewater: Illaoi, Nautilus, Pyke
Ionia: Zed, Sett, Yasuo
Shadow Isles: Vex, Thresh, Gwen
Freljord: Lissandra, Gragas, Olaf
Void: Velkoz, Reksai, Belveth
Targon: A. Sol, Leona, Pantheon
Also some honorable mentions of other archetypes:
Mimic: Neeko and Viego( for him I can even imagine the intro being a different champion before he stabs them in the back and possessing them)
Puppet: Orianna, Yorick
Stance changer: Udyr, Nidalee
Reversal : Fiora, Jax
Shoto: Lee Sin
Charge up: Braum , Sion
Joke characters: Amumu, Rammus
Patheon we must have
Aurelion Sol just needs to be the narrator / announcer / commentator and ill be happy
Id love to see singed even though I have no clue how that could or should work xD
There does exist a fighting game with cooldowns, Rising Thunder. (Bought by Riot Games by the way)
And Granblue Fantasy Versus
I would love to see Evelynn!
It’s funny hearing an opinion on fighting games from someone that doesn’t play them lol. Very different prospective
Speaking of cooldown this devs team did it with their previous game(rising thunder)
34:40 That could work maybe, but Fighting games are really fast, specially tag teams. And also managing multiple reworks in a fighting game would be annoying, and having icons showing cooldowns would be annoying too.
38:17 Necrit finished watching the ad then I instantly got an ad T~T
I love kled and poppy and like no one else does. Both would be good for the game. Especially kled
"Yasuo is def going to be in the game" - oh how he was right
36:52 Aphelios would not be a Zoner he would be a technical stance switching character.
Yo he's definitely not a furry
If you want to get a feel for team combat in a fighting game play skullgirls.
Literally watching you stop the video and guess half the video XD
Granblue literally has 4 abilities with cooldowns XD
And this is why we use youtube premium... No ads, no hassle
or here's a thought...install a regular adblocker on your browser? I do that because im not giving a single £ of mine to youtube after everything they've done.
if they add vel'koz it's just gonna be shuma gorath 2.0
Riven needs to go into the game because she was inspired by fighting games when she was made.
the ads man
34:27 That sounds good on paper but in practice it would be very annoying, removing options is not a good idea in a game about control.
34:53 Jump force, you're talking describing jump force.
Gnar is a really poor choice for a yordle representative, he hardly counts as one.
Yea I think Poppy would be best as a rush down Yordle and plus she’s a great rep for them in general. Gnar would be cool as a transformation character but idk I want someone who embodies Yordles of the present.
I would like to see Aphelios but give him more moon weapons, cuz according to the concept he was supposed to have like 20+ weapons
But his lore
Space Groove necrit my favourite design
48:00 Maybe I'll say a stupid thing, but we already have an example of LoR, where we were presented with a unique champion, so why is the L project worse? Darkin won't necessarily be one of those that are in LoL, they can take anyone from LoR.
If you want to watch some tag team fighter, blaz blue cross tag battle is dead but it’s the closest I can think of to project L
Even with Tekken 8 releasing soon, it shouldn't be an issue for Projec L or even the new SF, since the game plays different than the other 2. It plays like MvC.
19:07
David Shovlin is playing Blitzcrank
"IDK if there is a fighting game with cooldowns?" MultiVersus: ಠ_ʖಠ
gbvs
Kinda weird, when first the argument is, hey not only popular Champs! And then he proceeds to pick Champs he just likes. 🤣
Seems like there technically isn't anyone from piltover on this list either , Victor could be interesting 🤷 but the rosters already potentially been leaked not gunna spoil it here in comments but yeah for sure some changes I'd like to see as far as spoiled leaked roster.
Blitz is an easy drop for starting roster, especially since Thresh covers some of that long range grappler moveset. The roster needs Riven. Riven is Sett tier of "this is a fighting game character. "
not a FURRY
TRULY NOT A FURRY
I'm surprised RUclipsrs don't just all have or buy RUclips premium no adds is nice for viewing and to my knowledge still supports creators in some way like it has to right ? lol 😅
teachnically aatrox could fit the accurate size model for project L but i wouldnt mind any other darkin from LOR especially someone like ibaaros or joraal