1. The way Eric instantly shifts gears to handling Mike's comments (while leaning into the joke and tying it into the topic at hand) and then gets back to his original point without being derailed is just masterful. 2. Show us the calves!
Oh wow, I was actually one of the participants of the calf stretching study. Never thought I would see a video where it would be mentioned. Konstantin was a colleague of mine (same university at the time of the study). I can absolutely second Dr. Helms' opinion here, the stretching was painful, just do calf raises instead! Although we were allowed to take small breaks during the stretching if we were experiencing numbness (which we most certainly did), but the total stretching duration per day should not be below 45 minutes. We had to log our stretching times. Some anecdotal info for those who care: Many of us participants, myself included, actually profited the most not in cross section increases (measured by MRI btw), but in ankle joint flexibility instead. Flexibility was measured by a... rudimentary "device", where we pushed a small block forward with our knees while balancing on the same leg, and essentially doing a one legged squat (assisted by a door frame to hold on to). The measurement stopped when our heel lifted from the ground. Personally, I improved my ankle flexion in this "exercise" by about +4 cm (iirc) of pushing that block forward, which translated to an easier time going deeper on leg presses/squats/lunges etc.. So the main takeaway here is, if anyone has a problem with ankle flexion, perhaps give "extreme stretching" over multiple weeks a try. Not saying it will help, but it just might help you specifically!
Love this duo. It’s is like watching one friend trying to explain the plot of a movie while the other friend is trying to guess what’s going to happen next. lol
Two questions: 1) That pec study suggests stretching can potentially result in surprising big gains. Why don’t we seem to see people that stretch getting very muscular from it? At least in my experience, I don’t see men or women that exclusively do yoga type exercises getting more muscular like someone that regularly lifts weights. 2) With weightlifting, progressive overloading is pretty simple - just add weight or improve technique. But with stretching, isn’t it possible that at some point you can’t really get any more flexible, or if you did you might increase your risk of injuries? Also, the fact that women saw less hypertrophy because they were already more flexible raises some questions. AFAIK, this isn’t seen with resistance training - if someone can lift more weight initially, that won’t impede their ability to develop more muscle. I think this stretching research is really interesting and potentially signals something very insightful, and it also raises a lot more questions about how it could actually be applied to increase muscle growth.
Definitely some good questions. I think your first one points to the fact that you probably need some concurrent resistance/stretching not just stretching. And yes you can’t go past a certain point of stretching or you will rip things 😂
1) I believe the answer to this question you allude to in your second question, and that’s because you eventually reach a point where you can’t stretch further. Whereas resistance training you can always throw another 5 or 10lbs on 2) Yes, when you stretch you’re going past your bodies initial range of motion, let’s say if you reach a point of dorsiflexion or plantar flexion that’s beyond its reasonable/ideal range of motion. Your ankle is naturally able to flex so much more, but that doesn’t mean it’s able to support the weight of your body at those points of flexion. (Used the ankle just as an example) 3) well this is seen in resistance training, which is the reason why trained individuals aren’t as keen to studies done on untrained individuals because they have a higher receptivity to muscle growth and is why they get what’s known as “newbie gains”, so I would think of the already flexible women as trained individuals in a resistance training group. Not to say, just because I lift more weight means I’ve been training longer. That’s usually the case, especially in relative weight, but not always of course. Hope this helps answer any questions, or maybe even raise more !
I would guess that the reason less flexible people are able to see better gains would be because a muscle is able to generate more force at shorter lengths. So if a muscle is maximally stretched at a relatively short length then it will be resisting the stretch with much higher force than if it was at a longer length.
Pec example had people do 15 minute holds at maximum stretch for the exact same muscle group 4 times a week. Is that similar to how yogis train? Yogis can pipe in on this. Also hypertrophy is easier when you are also on a calory surplus, do you see a lot of yogis combine there training with bulking? Most people I know who go to the gym but try to avoid gaining weight also don't look visibly much more muscular
Mike is the master of interjection: to break up dry science into bite-sized morsels...with juvenile humor and subject tangents...to keep the viewers' absorption refreshed. He makes us WANT to get past his interruptions and back to the topic. Artfully masterful...!
Reverse Nordics seem to be very effective for quads for me personally and they put the quads into a nasty stretch - hold the stretch for extended periods if you are a masochist
@@freniisammii Yes, deficit Bulgarian split-squats are brutal af, tip for those is to use an aerobic step for a bigger deficit and also increase the distance between your front leg and supporting (back) leg - this will force you to use less weight but shifts emphasis to the glutes even more
Yes, aparantely it is the only way to do without cirurgies. 2 cm a year some claim, i read in another YT video that it was the case and there's some large community on reddit about it. I was curious about it, but not followed throught. So for people to have this legit concern, sadly this is the most a can point a way.
@@MPJ784you definitely can. Speaking from experience. Definitely. Don’t start with an hr though maybe 3 minutes 5x a week and add 30 secs every 3-4 weeks
Retired dancer, here. One of the reasons dancers are so strong is that in dance training every single contraction is immediately countered by or balanced by an extension and MOST movements (especially the bravura male leaps) are executed at maximum extension.
I remember reading this exact same study several months ago for a paper in college. Awesome that I've come across it again, that kind of schoolwork feels like a waste of time I would never come across ever again
Love how Helms has insane chemistry with whoever his talking to, be it Trex, Zourdos, Omar, Dr.Mike... what a charismatic, smart man. Always distils complex topics into digestible brain-food.
I saw a study about the muscle stretch being more important than the contraction. So yes i will stretch the muscle with a proper load and eccentric motion. Thanks dr mike!
People used to say you should stretch the muscle after every set for an extra 10-15 seconds or so for extra hypertrophy and then science said it didn’t work.. science will continually show bros of the past knew their shit from trial and error
Different protocol that hits the same mechanism. Using stretching to go beyond the point of failure after typical sets are done. It's not that far outside the Dorian Yates method of using your spotter to get partial reps in the stretch position to go beyond failure after not being able to do more full range of motion reps.
"science will continually show bros of the past knew their shit from trial and error" - science NOT continually show that people from past was right all along. You are making survival bias. Yes, science show, that some methods "from past" can make sense. But science also show a ton of examples opposite of that. Partials in short range? - bad idea. "must do bench, squad, deadlift" - not necessary. Train biceps once a week - bad idea. A lot of protein like 4 grams per 1 kg - too much, doesnt give more benefit. Gotta it immediately after or workout wasted - not exactly. And etc. Bros not always knew that shit. Bros know a lot a good stuff, but also a lot of not so great stuff and a lot of BS.
Because the science knows more about the human body "in general", while the men who are actively learning how to take care of their own bodies, know way more about their own bodies than science knows about the human body in general. Science is cool, but referring to the latest scientific discoveries like it's the only objective and final truth is not only ignorant and dumb, but a completely anti-scientific thinking method too.
I put on a lot of muscle on at a faster rate when I started doing Yoga. And my kicks became much more powerful. Stretching is great. I highly recommend Yoga.
ive always been very flexible and im always contorting myself throughout the day especially after workouts because it feels amazing, and now i wonder if it has played a part in how jacked i was before working out, and how fast i have grown. i also do martial arts btw and can attest to stretching the hams before kicking.
@@wweald7053 I did light poses after workout if I felt like it, then on my weightlifting rest days I did at least an hour or more of more involved poses. highly recommend.
@@wweald7053 personally I do both. A thorough protocol after workout then a quicker one before bed. Adding the latter (daily) helped me resolve tension issues in the lower body that would sometimes make it harder to sleep. Post-workout however you make the most progress going deeper into stretches. Just my personal experience of course.
Sounds like this is showing some of why supplementing lifting with yoga is very effective at increasing strength and size for many people, if not most.
Ancient yoga included longer isometric holds. Monks would meditate in certain positions for hours each day to gain "spiritual clarity" modern yoga is still excellent for mobility and circulation health, but it's also condensed into something you can fit into daily life. Compared to monks doing yoga, that itself was their life. It's the difference between doing enough to get some health benefits versus doing it to an extreme as its own lifestyle all day every day.
So there's a debate in the gymnast community about why they have such insane bicep development (it's unreal), and there was a Russian gymnast who said it's because the men train the Iron Cross which is essentially them holding their entire weight on rings with outstretched arms to the point of almost hyperextension. The theory was the biceps were working at their most lenghthened (and therefore weakest) state which caused the growth. I see now not only is that true, but the DEEP STRETCH they're milking in that position is doing WORK.
I would love to see what happens if you combine the stretching with training. I don’t think anyone is gonna stop training to stretch but if both together provides even better results, then I’m interested
Some exercises inherently have a large stretch component; incline curls , over head extensions and deadlifts. But what you could do is let’s say you train a muscle group 3x per week on the third session you can have pretty much just a weighted stretch day were you hold that stretched position and see what happens
With the trickle down idea, definitely. Because I stretch before bed, typically I will do Karlakatai yoga, compared to Modern Western yoga, which helps me combine the meditation, I sleep better therefore I can wake up and perform better
Please provide a link to whatever papers you are referencing, for people who like to do their own research besides watching youtubes, that would be awesome
Been doing this for years. Rather than sit and rest just static stretch the muscle you're working. Don't do it every set but it definitely makes a difference.
I've been experimenting with mostly LLPs with dumbbell pec fly for awhile now to cook my pecs after barbell pressing (I workout at home in my garage with minimal equipment)
I used to do calf raises with over 300lbs full range of motion with a squeeze at the top. Now I do lengthened partials with a slow eccentric with around 220lbs and my calves are growing fast af
What are your thougths on calisthenics/gymnastics ? i notice they have more grainy/dense looking muscle, i always think that iso holds on the stretched position + normal gym training has better results in strenght, flexibility and muscle mass, this is purely especulation
Hello, Dr. Mike. One of the most interesting things you ever put out was your experiences in Russia. Not sure if you are wanting to, but I would like to hear more about that system. Been studying it for a long time. Actually, during the lockdowns I lived in Hollywood with my wife and I would read books like Ivan Denisovich, the Kitchen Boy, and other books literally to make me feel better about living in a tyrannical era. That is why I like to hear it. Good to prepare
Eric IS great, i Like him and His Work and i Like to See His actual muscle building success after all this years and His Tipps, this is real Motivation
It always made sense to me that stretching intensely grows muscle even before any research, it makes sense because it agrees with the principles: -Do isometrics grow muscle? Yes -Do lengthened isometrics grow more muscle than shortened isometrics? Yes -Do lengthened partials grow more muscle than standard full rom? Yes -Does the bottom stretch grow more muscle than the other parts of the movement? Yes Then why wouldn't holding the bottom of a dumbbell fly grow muscle effectively? IMO if stretching extremely intensely 4 times a week for 15 minutes equals to doing 15 sets (4 minutes equals 1 set), then if you were to do a 4 minute dumbbell fly at the end of your workout you would gain some flexibility and it would count as doing a normal set, that way you can get a good workout and at the end add flexibility training at the end that also doubles as an additional set.
Your getting enuff flexibility just from the bottom of each rep, and u would wana do the whole rep to build the adaptations that your body Will only make in order to lift weight the weight instead if just adaptations ti being a stretched position
Since I was given exercises for Achilles tendonopathy, my calfs have ballooned. Also, the effect is reversible. Calf raises helped keep the tendon pain at bay.
Quick question just so I'm clear. When Eric touched on pause reps saying we're not sure if the trade-off is worth it, is this mostly in reference to the little bit of a drop in performance you get when you do pauses, kind of like what Menno was saying in a recent video about how he doesn't like pause reps for that reason?
This makes me think of a few weird applications. I’ve had secondary hypoparathyroidism due to surgery, which gave me painful cramps occasionally if I forget to take calcium supplement. It gave me the idea that if I can’t move or move well yet the doctor wants to ensure the muscles are working properly, they can probably induce “cramps” on those muscles to work it. I looked around and apparently when they induce cramps using shock on muscle, they do inducing comparable muscle growth to exercise. I thought celebrities can be given some sort of pain reduction medicine and put through a “full body workout” section just getting zapped instead of exercising, similar to how they lose weight with Ozempic. With stretching this sounds even more plausible. Patients post surgery can be made to stretch to ensure better posture-surgery mobility perhaps, or celebrities can be locked into painful stretches for hours to build muscles. A cool side effect from stretching induced muscle growth is that it would probably consume less energy compare to regular exercise. So celebrities can combine this with their ozempic shot for quick weight loss + muscle gain, perhaps. Just weird ideas.
Great MF video. People need to know that maintaining flexibility is important and deserves time in someone’s routine to better their health. Also helps me from getting injured
Just wanted to jump in real quick. I love your content. The entertaining videos are great with just enough informative structure to keep them functional. Your methods for lifts have also helped me improve at a monumental rate. My trainer and I discuss a lot of things you talk about and I am growing by leaps and bounds (still early btw). I wanted to say keep crushing it everyday and never stop. God bless and Stay Hard!
Last set of the day for any given muscle will get long length partials followed by a serious prolonged stretch from now. Gonna try it for a few weeks and see how it feels.
I have mentioned this before. This was already studied and developed by Steve Holman and his partner on POF training which included a pre stretch movement, then mid range, then concentration. This was developed back in the 80s. It’s not new at all.
As much as I love the training videos, I really enjoy the academic videos even more. I've learned much more on this channel than I learned in my degree in 2000.
I'm pretty sure that I remember Tom Platz talking in a video about how important stretching was for muscle growth. He would do stretching sessions specifically because it helped stimulate muscle growth. Don't quote me if I'm wrong.
I do dumbbells down to my side and I was flat footed. I tried angling my foot and that work but my arms was down by my side and my lower back didn't hurt. Now I watched all of you're dumbell squat workouts, and you had them put there weights on shoulders or weights on both shoulders and angled calves. Now can you do a video about how to do squats properly with dumbells, please.
Would post-session stretching potentially raise blood flow and flush out metabolites? Stretching with a pump feels awesome but I'm worried about losing my gains.
I noticed this to be true when working on doing splits while also excersizing my legs. The more i push the stretches, the more it seems the strength stays. However, i also need more rest time from doing such.
Dr Mike, I have just seen Mr. Greg’s video that he made about you. I don’t know if what he said was completely true or not but if it is, I want you to know that you are an absolutely amazing person and couch. I’ve learned so much and still am from your video. I personally care about your well being and I don’t want anything bad to happen to you. We care about you and love and we don’t want to lose you. The fitness world would lose a Gem if anything happens to you. If anything is harming you please stop. Please stay safe and stay healthy.❤
Comparing the time to train between a cast stretching your calves and doing calf raises must take into consideration, that with the cast, you are free to do, e.g. your Desk Job. Also benefits maybe if the joint cannot take a lot of movement in these weeks. Probably not practical in most cases, but good to know none the less.
Ngl this reminded me of one dude I knew from years ago who started lifting and he started looking into science of stuff. He was complaining about being sore and I mentioned about stretching. Then he went about “how could that help? Stretching is at the exaggerated part of the eccentric, the muscle building portion, how would that heal muscles? In fact, muscle soreness is just the breakdown of fibers, so stretching will just break it down!” I said “it helps you feel less tight, then you’ll be able to move around more and do active recovery that will help the recovery.” He’s not wrong that stretching doesn’t affect muscle growth, but the amount to stretch would be astronomical and this video shows that lol 😂 I think he stopped training after that ngl
I have been doing this for a while ever since i heard about the quail study i use doubled over resistance bands to stretch my chest in a standing fly position
Eric is a black belt in not letting dr mike derail the conversation every 30 seconds.
He's normal and Mike is hilarious
It’s time for an intervention with Dr. Mike. Once or twice per video is amusing. Every 30 seconds is excessive, tedious, and extremely distracting.
@@bretrobbins3150It's subjective to your tastes. I personally think he should half the jokes.
@@bretrobbins3150My thought exactly!
@@bretrobbins3150 eh, I love it, personally.
1. The way Eric instantly shifts gears to handling Mike's comments (while leaning into the joke and tying it into the topic at hand) and then gets back to his original point without being derailed is just masterful.
2. Show us the calves!
Oh wow, I was actually one of the participants of the calf stretching study. Never thought I would see a video where it would be mentioned. Konstantin was a colleague of mine (same university at the time of the study). I can absolutely second Dr. Helms' opinion here, the stretching was painful, just do calf raises instead! Although we were allowed to take small breaks during the stretching if we were experiencing numbness (which we most certainly did), but the total stretching duration per day should not be below 45 minutes. We had to log our stretching times.
Some anecdotal info for those who care:
Many of us participants, myself included, actually profited the most not in cross section increases (measured by MRI btw), but in ankle joint flexibility instead. Flexibility was measured by a... rudimentary "device", where we pushed a small block forward with our knees while balancing on the same leg, and essentially doing a one legged squat (assisted by a door frame to hold on to). The measurement stopped when our heel lifted from the ground. Personally, I improved my ankle flexion in this "exercise" by about +4 cm (iirc) of pushing that block forward, which translated to an easier time going deeper on leg presses/squats/lunges etc.. So the main takeaway here is, if anyone has a problem with ankle flexion, perhaps give "extreme stretching" over multiple weeks a try. Not saying it will help, but it just might help you specifically!
thanks for sharing
Did the stretching result in DOMS similar to resistance training?
I am actually very interested in this kind of flexibility specifically! Is there any kind of device available commercially that holds this stretch?
Solid, very informative comment
What did the calf stretching device look like?
Dr Mike would throw 99% of people off their game with this banter. This guy could not be rattled 😂😂 what a pro. Big respect 🫡
Eric Helms has experience talking with Omar (a goofy goober, in ways similar to Mike)
Love this duo. It’s is like watching one friend trying to explain the plot of a movie while the other friend is trying to guess what’s going to happen next. lol
So true 😂
👋 I'm that friend that guesses! Calling is half the fun 😂
The future of bodybuilding will be guys strapped into stretch contraptions with IV BCAAs 8 hours a day
That sounds like some "I have no mouth and I must scream" type of sht
EAA's, no point in skipping down to only BCAAs
So gyms become BDSM caves?
@@TheDubass so no change?
@@mastervule1844This made me laugh out loud thank you 😂
Eric: So there was a study…
Dr Mike: And this study was done on a Sasquatch, an ASEXUAL Sasquatch. Actually, 500 of them!
Dr. Mike is my spirit animal. Which is also a Sasquatch.
True 🤣 Thanks for the addition Mike
Eric: we started stretching….
Mike: TIE ME UP AND FUCK ME MUSCLE MAN
Sarcasm is a potent spice. A sprinkle enhances the dish. Too much ruins it.
@@bretrobbins3150 That was poetic
I love how Mike constantly makes puns while the guy tries to ignore it and explain.
He doesn't ignore them at all. He laughs at them and just continues with the topic
@@Dave.Mustaine.Is.Geniuswelax
Eric and Mike have great chemistry. I feel like he's one of the few interviews that picks up what Mike is putting down
Right! Do you listen to his Iron Culture podcast?
only dr Eric can tolerate dr Mike's jokes to the frequency that was showin in this vid (once every 15 seconds)
It's like a constant test of his resolve and it just washes over him whilst he stays completely focused. Awesome.
He 100% has the same type of humor. Listen to his podcast with Omar
I would equally idiotic and they wasted my time and I wanted it back
The constant interrupting can be a bit off putting, but I think it’s just due to how excited Mike is about this info !!
could you do a video on jelqing?
😂 hahaha
I dont want any theory bullshit, I want hands on. Tangible.
Take matters into your own hands, literally.
yes, ive seen guides in text but im a visual learner
I'd pay extra for that
Two questions:
1) That pec study suggests stretching can potentially result in surprising big gains. Why don’t we seem to see people that stretch getting very muscular from it? At least in my experience, I don’t see men or women that exclusively do yoga type exercises getting more muscular like someone that regularly lifts weights.
2) With weightlifting, progressive overloading is pretty simple - just add weight or improve technique. But with stretching, isn’t it possible that at some point you can’t really get any more flexible, or if you did you might increase your risk of injuries?
Also, the fact that women saw less hypertrophy because they were already more flexible raises some questions. AFAIK, this isn’t seen with resistance training - if someone can lift more weight initially, that won’t impede their ability to develop more muscle.
I think this stretching research is really interesting and potentially signals something very insightful, and it also raises a lot more questions about how it could actually be applied to increase muscle growth.
Definitely some good questions. I think your first one points to the fact that you probably need some concurrent resistance/stretching not just stretching.
And yes you can’t go past a certain point of stretching or you will rip things 😂
1) I believe the answer to this question you allude to in your second question, and that’s because you eventually reach a point where you can’t stretch further. Whereas resistance training you can always throw another 5 or 10lbs on
2) Yes, when you stretch you’re going past your bodies initial range of motion, let’s say if you reach a point of dorsiflexion or plantar flexion that’s beyond its reasonable/ideal range of motion. Your ankle is naturally able to flex so much more, but that doesn’t mean it’s able to support the weight of your body at those points of flexion. (Used the ankle just as an example)
3) well this is seen in resistance training, which is the reason why trained individuals aren’t as keen to studies done on untrained individuals because they have a higher receptivity to muscle growth and is why they get what’s known as “newbie gains”, so I would think of the already flexible women as trained individuals in a resistance training group. Not to say, just because I lift more weight means I’ve been training longer. That’s usually the case, especially in relative weight, but not always of course.
Hope this helps answer any questions, or maybe even raise more !
I would guess that the reason less flexible people are able to see better gains would be because a muscle is able to generate more force at shorter lengths. So if a muscle is maximally stretched at a relatively short length then it will be resisting the stretch with much higher force than if it was at a longer length.
We do. Yoga people get more muscular significantly compairwd to baseline without any extra muscle training
Pec example had people do 15 minute holds at maximum stretch for the exact same muscle group 4 times a week. Is that similar to how yogis train? Yogis can pipe in on this. Also hypertrophy is easier when you are also on a calory surplus, do you see a lot of yogis combine there training with bulking? Most people I know who go to the gym but try to avoid gaining weight also don't look visibly much more muscular
Yes Dante Trudel ( DC Training) has been preaching extreme stretching at the end of working each muscle group, for decades!
Go Dante!!
Team3DAlpha used to preach the stretch protocol!!! Pretty cool to finally see the science catch up with his predictions
Yeah his heavy stretch pump training 👌🏾
This was great. So cool to see the incredibly knowledgeable, good looking and affable Dr Helms impart nuggets of genius and Mike was in the video too!
Helms is the man. Dr Mike, thanks for exposing me to so many brilliant people RP is the shit
Right! Do you listen to Helm’s podcast?
Dr. Mike geeking hard as fuck. He's definitely thinking about stretching something of his
Mike is the master of interjection: to break up dry science into bite-sized morsels...with juvenile humor and subject tangents...to keep the viewers' absorption refreshed. He makes us WANT to get past his interruptions and back to the topic. Artfully masterful...!
Reverse Nordics seem to be very effective for quads for me personally and they put the quads into a nasty stretch - hold the stretch for extended periods if you are a masochist
You thing deficit lunges/smith squats could do the same thing for glutes?
@freniisammii thought provoking... 🤔
Smith machine Bulgarian split squats are brutal... Hurts so good.
@@freniisammii Yes, deficit Bulgarian split-squats are brutal af, tip for those is to use an aerobic step for a bigger deficit and also increase the distance between your front leg and supporting (back) leg - this will force you to use less weight but shifts emphasis to the glutes even more
@@JohnSmith-wh7mk so should I do a pause on the last rep to really take advantage of this "stretch" mechanic?
We need a sequel, can you grow your shlong by stretching?
jelqmaxxing and edging on top bro
Yes, aparantely it is the only way to do without cirurgies.
2 cm a year some claim, i read in another YT video that it was the case and there's some large community on reddit about it.
I was curious about it, but not followed throught.
So for people to have this legit concern, sadly this is the most a can point a way.
@@MPJ784you definitely can. Speaking from experience. Definitely. Don’t start with an hr though maybe 3 minutes 5x a week and add 30 secs every 3-4 weeks
Yeah its common knowledge at this point
@@999rocky6how to do it?
Retired dancer, here. One of the reasons dancers are so strong is that in dance training every single contraction is immediately countered by or balanced by an extension and MOST movements (especially the bravura male leaps) are executed at maximum extension.
Omg, Erik is so goood for this content. Perfect man to this colab. Thank you sir
I remember reading this exact same study several months ago for a paper in college. Awesome that I've come across it again, that kind of schoolwork feels like a waste of time I would never come across ever again
Love how Helms has insane chemistry with whoever his talking to, be it Trex, Zourdos, Omar, Dr.Mike... what a charismatic, smart man. Always distils complex topics into digestible brain-food.
OK, who all wants a BDSM shirt? Bench, deadlifts, squat, military press. 😂
please make this a thing XD
I need it
@@MrPizzaSUS already saw it a few weeks back if i remember correctly.
Dude I literally have “I practice BDSM” on my home gym
Whiteboard. People never know what it means😂
@@IronOathFitness XD
I saw a study about the muscle stretch being more important than the contraction. So yes i will stretch the muscle with a proper load and eccentric motion. Thanks dr mike!
People used to say you should stretch the muscle after every set for an extra 10-15 seconds or so for extra hypertrophy and then science said it didn’t work.. science will continually show bros of the past knew their shit from trial and error
Completely different protocol.
Different protocol that hits the same mechanism. Using stretching to go beyond the point of failure after typical sets are done. It's not that far outside the Dorian Yates method of using your spotter to get partial reps in the stretch position to go beyond failure after not being able to do more full range of motion reps.
What is the device for calf stretching you use?
"science will continually show bros of the past knew their shit from trial and error" - science NOT continually show that people from past was right all along. You are making survival bias.
Yes, science show, that some methods "from past" can make sense. But science also show a ton of examples opposite of that.
Partials in short range? - bad idea.
"must do bench, squad, deadlift" - not necessary.
Train biceps once a week - bad idea.
A lot of protein like 4 grams per 1 kg - too much, doesnt give more benefit.
Gotta it immediately after or workout wasted - not exactly.
And etc.
Bros not always knew that shit. Bros know a lot a good stuff, but also a lot of not so great stuff and a lot of BS.
Because the science knows more about the human body "in general", while the men who are actively learning how to take care of their own bodies, know way more about their own bodies than science knows about the human body in general. Science is cool, but referring to the latest scientific discoveries like it's the only objective and final truth is not only ignorant and dumb, but a completely anti-scientific thinking method too.
Thank you for the great video!!
Vindication for Dante Trudel and DoggCrapp OG's!
Yep. What's old is new again! Dante told me about this in 2007 and the Internet back in the 90s on professional muscle.
Arnold used to recommend stretching both in lifts, and regular stretching. He was ahead of his time.
I put on a lot of muscle on at a faster rate when I started doing Yoga. And my kicks became much more powerful. Stretching is great. I highly recommend Yoga.
ive always been very flexible and im always contorting myself throughout the day especially after workouts because it feels amazing, and now i wonder if it has played a part in how jacked i was before working out, and how fast i have grown. i also do martial arts btw and can attest to stretching the hams before kicking.
Do you do it post workout or separately, I was thinking of exercise in the morning and stretching before bed
@@wweald7053 I did light poses after workout if I felt like it, then on my weightlifting rest days I did at least an hour or more of more involved poses. highly recommend.
@@wweald7053 personally I do both. A thorough protocol after workout then a quicker one before bed. Adding the latter (daily) helped me resolve tension issues in the lower body that would sometimes make it harder to sleep. Post-workout however you make the most progress going deeper into stretches. Just my personal experience of course.
I wonder if the benefits are different for some people?
So Dante Trudell and his Doggcrapp (DC) Training regimen was right? Extreme stretching after hitting the muscle group
Sounds like this is showing some of why supplementing lifting with yoga is very effective at increasing strength and size for many people, if not most.
The ancient yoga texts say that yoga will give you the strength of an elephant (not modern yoga, but ancient monk style yoga)
@@PcCAvioN what's the difference? What protocols that do ancient yoga have that modern yoga don't? (Out of curiosity)
@@PcCAvioN Which is obviously not literally true since elephants are beyond human strength, but it seems to be correct albeit exaggerated!
@@PcCAvioNwell… Thats a lie
Ancient yoga included longer isometric holds. Monks would meditate in certain positions for hours each day to gain "spiritual clarity"
modern yoga is still excellent for mobility and circulation health, but it's also condensed into something you can fit into daily life. Compared to monks doing yoga, that itself was their life.
It's the difference between doing enough to get some health benefits versus doing it to an extreme as its own lifestyle all day every day.
Reminds me of the good old Doggcrapp program where you put on extra weight to get an extreme stretch after your working sets.
When you add "myo reps" you basically have DC!
So there's a debate in the gymnast community about why they have such insane bicep development (it's unreal), and there was a Russian gymnast who said it's because the men train the Iron Cross which is essentially them holding their entire weight on rings with outstretched arms to the point of almost hyperextension. The theory was the biceps were working at their most lenghthened (and therefore weakest) state which caused the growth. I see now not only is that true, but the DEEP STRETCH they're milking in that position is doing WORK.
Exactly. why is this perfect example of the effect of stretching in humans being overlooked?
I would love to see what happens if you combine the stretching with training. I don’t think anyone is gonna stop training to stretch but if both together provides even better results, then I’m interested
Some exercises inherently have a large stretch component; incline curls , over head extensions and deadlifts. But what you could do is let’s say you train a muscle group 3x per week on the third session you can have pretty much just a weighted stretch day were you hold that stretched position and see what happens
Dante has been preaching this for years. Cool to see some evidence on it.
Wtf I was just thinking of this in my head I thought this was an old video and my phone was reading my thoughs
Literally same thing happened to me.
You have no free will, its all pre-determined.....
u high bro
This happens to me pretty often with youtube. I'll be thinking of something then i get recommend a video about the subject. How
Every video some comment like this on any channel. It's getting annoying
Doggcrapp was onto something a long time ago with the painful stretching at the end of your sets perhaps
With the trickle down idea, definitely. Because I stretch before bed, typically I will do Karlakatai yoga, compared to Modern Western yoga, which helps me combine the meditation, I sleep better therefore I can wake up and perform better
These two are the best combo
Please provide a link to whatever papers you are referencing, for people who like to do their own research besides watching youtubes, that would be awesome
If only other things could grow by stretching 🥲
It's not a muscle though
Just have faith in the process
It did for me, except now it’s kinda detached…
@@creepersKy now you can just use a strap on
Tugging and stretching are two totally different things bro!
OMG! This is my latest text book subject for cecs!
THANK YOU!!!
Been doing this for years. Rather than sit and rest just static stretch the muscle you're working. Don't do it every set but it definitely makes a difference.
I've been experimenting with mostly LLPs with dumbbell pec fly for awhile now to cook my pecs after barbell pressing (I workout at home in my garage with minimal equipment)
Because I don't have many dumbbells and they are at most 40lbs
Could you please do superhero workout plan videos for Captain America, Spider-Man, Aquaman, and Deadpool or Wolverine.
NOTICE: ballet dancers NOT studied!
perhaps they do not seek hypertrophy but they do WILD amounts of stretching and MUST be strong enough to LEAP etc
I used to do calf raises with over 300lbs full range of motion with a squeeze at the top. Now I do lengthened partials with a slow eccentric with around 220lbs and my calves are growing fast af
Nice
What are your thougths on calisthenics/gymnastics ? i notice they have more grainy/dense looking muscle, i always think that iso holds on the stretched position + normal gym training has better results in strenght, flexibility and muscle mass, this is purely especulation
I hurt my ankle really bad in the military and honestly calf raises help my mobility so much I can run almost like I use to
Hello, Dr. Mike. One of the most interesting things you ever put out was your experiences in Russia. Not sure if you are wanting to, but I would like to hear more about that system. Been studying it for a long time. Actually, during the lockdowns I lived in Hollywood with my wife and I would read books like Ivan Denisovich, the Kitchen Boy, and other books literally to make me feel better about living in a tyrannical era. That is why I like to hear it. Good to prepare
I live for these interviews!
Dr Eric Helms is a G
Eric IS great, i Like him and His Work and i Like to See His actual muscle building success after all this years and His Tipps, this is real Motivation
Why do you abuse the shift key like that? What an abomination.
@@charlesw3120 my Handy sucks. ITS Not my fault Brother
It always made sense to me that stretching intensely grows muscle even before any research, it makes sense because it agrees with the principles:
-Do isometrics grow muscle? Yes
-Do lengthened isometrics grow more muscle than shortened isometrics? Yes
-Do lengthened partials grow more muscle than standard full rom? Yes
-Does the bottom stretch grow more muscle than the other parts of the movement? Yes
Then why wouldn't holding the bottom of a dumbbell fly grow muscle effectively?
IMO if stretching extremely intensely 4 times a week for 15 minutes equals to doing 15 sets (4 minutes equals 1 set), then if you were to do a 4 minute dumbbell fly at the end of your workout you would gain some flexibility and it would count as doing a normal set, that way you can get a good workout and at the end add flexibility training at the end that also doubles as an additional set.
damn, I didn't know the last one was true? What's the point of doing full ROM then?
@@freniisammiiIt's more compared to the other parts, but still the other parts help too. So why would you lose the gains from the other parts?
Your getting enuff flexibility just from the bottom of each rep, and u would wana do the whole rep to build the adaptations that your body Will only make in order to lift weight the weight instead if just adaptations ti being a stretched position
There was mention BFR training in this video. Dr Mike should do a video on best practices for occlusion training.
Dante Trudel and his extreme stretching was right. Watch Doggcrapp, a 3 decade old program, become popular
Let's fucking go! Been a fan of DC for years!
I'd expect someone with your username to recommend something called dog crap
Since I was given exercises for Achilles tendonopathy, my calfs have ballooned.
Also, the effect is reversible. Calf raises helped keep the tendon pain at bay.
Quick question just so I'm clear. When Eric touched on pause reps saying we're not sure if the trade-off is worth it, is this mostly in reference to the little bit of a drop in performance you get when you do pauses, kind of like what Menno was saying in a recent video about how he doesn't like pause reps for that reason?
Dr Mike is my favorite yapper
This makes me think of a few weird applications. I’ve had secondary hypoparathyroidism due to surgery, which gave me painful cramps occasionally if I forget to take calcium supplement. It gave me the idea that if I can’t move or move well yet the doctor wants to ensure the muscles are working properly, they can probably induce “cramps” on those muscles to work it. I looked around and apparently when they induce cramps using shock on muscle, they do inducing comparable muscle growth to exercise. I thought celebrities can be given some sort of pain reduction medicine and put through a “full body workout” section just getting zapped instead of exercising, similar to how they lose weight with Ozempic. With stretching this sounds even more plausible. Patients post surgery can be made to stretch to ensure better posture-surgery mobility perhaps, or celebrities can be locked into painful stretches for hours to build muscles. A cool side effect from stretching induced muscle growth is that it would probably consume less energy compare to regular exercise. So celebrities can combine this with their ozempic shot for quick weight loss + muscle gain, perhaps. Just weird ideas.
Great MF video. People need to know that maintaining flexibility is important and deserves time in someone’s routine to better their health. Also helps me from getting injured
Dante aka DC was onto this decades ago. Justified! Extreme stretching is for real …
Crazy. I remember Frank Zane saying that stretching between sets was core to his training philosophy. I thought he was a quack for saying so!
I get this after my vacation. Nice
A truly legendary sign-off at the end there.
Just wanted to jump in real quick. I love your content. The entertaining videos are great with just enough informative structure to keep them functional. Your methods for lifts have also helped me improve at a monumental rate. My trainer and I discuss a lot of things you talk about and I am growing by leaps and bounds (still early btw). I wanted to say keep crushing it everyday and never stop. God bless and Stay Hard!
We need more Eric Helms!
Do we know what the recovery was like in those subjects in those studies?
Would love to know if they got DOMS from hell after stretching.
I refuse to believe anything other than that Dr Mike and Scot Mendelson are long lost brothers 😮
16:00 I love the pause reps.
Last set of the day for any given muscle will get long length partials followed by a serious prolonged stretch from now. Gonna try it for a few weeks and see how it feels.
Still can't compute 😂
Same!
I have mentioned this before. This was already studied and developed by Steve Holman and his partner on POF training which included a pre stretch movement, then mid range, then concentration. This was developed back in the 80s. It’s not new at all.
As much as I love the training videos, I really enjoy the academic videos even more. I've learned much more on this channel than I learned in my degree in 2000.
I'm pretty sure that I remember Tom Platz talking in a video about how important stretching was for muscle growth. He would do stretching sessions specifically because it helped stimulate muscle growth. Don't quote me if I'm wrong.
I do dumbbells down to my side and I was flat footed. I tried angling my foot and that work but my arms was down by my side and my lower back didn't hurt. Now I watched all of you're dumbell squat workouts, and you had them put there weights on shoulders or weights on both shoulders and angled calves. Now can you do a video about how to do squats properly with dumbells, please.
Would post-session stretching potentially raise blood flow and flush out metabolites? Stretching with a pump feels awesome but I'm worried about losing my gains.
Kudos... Please sir if you could create a detailed video on supplements.
I rarely listen to anything when i mean serious fitness.
I have always wondered about this, really interesting to see this topic adressed
Yeah I feel like the research on this topic has always shown negative effects of stretching. Until now
I noticed this to be true when working on doing splits while also excersizing my legs. The more i push the stretches, the more it seems the strength stays. However, i also need more rest time from doing such.
Dr Mike, I have just seen Mr. Greg’s video that he made about you.
I don’t know if what he said was completely true or not but if it is, I want you to know that you are an absolutely amazing person and couch. I’ve learned so much and still am from your video. I personally care about your well being and I don’t want anything bad to happen to you. We care about you and love and we don’t want to lose you. The fitness world would lose a Gem if anything happens to you. If anything is harming you please stop. Please stay safe and stay healthy.❤
Intriguing! Thanks. 👍🏽
Eric is the man.
Dante Trudel was preaching this for years. DC extreme stretching....
Comparing the time to train between a cast stretching your calves and doing calf raises must take into consideration, that with the cast, you are free to do, e.g. your Desk Job. Also benefits maybe if the joint cannot take a lot of movement in these weeks. Probably not practical in most cases, but good to know none the less.
Does the time period between a workout and stretching have an effect on the amount of muscle growth?
My thighs grew immensely after i started doing couch stretches. I was 100% off trt at the time too
@Team3DMJ what is the dorsiflexion boot that you used? I need to improve my ankle mobility.
Whether it’s works or not, it just feels really good to stretch
Ngl this reminded me of one dude I knew from years ago who started lifting and he started looking into science of stuff. He was complaining about being sore and I mentioned about stretching.
Then he went about “how could that help? Stretching is at the exaggerated part of the eccentric, the muscle building portion, how would that heal muscles? In fact, muscle soreness is just the breakdown of fibers, so stretching will just break it down!”
I said “it helps you feel less tight, then you’ll be able to move around more and do active recovery that will help the recovery.” He’s not wrong that stretching doesn’t affect muscle growth, but the amount to stretch would be astronomical and this video shows that lol 😂 I think he stopped training after that ngl
Dr. Mike hurling jokes every 20 seconds to stretch the length of this video. Nicely done on Hypertrophying your profits!
Big fan! You'll probably never see this but is 174.5 lbs of lean muscle mass at 5'10 (weight 218lb) good for a natural?
Instant like for Dr. Eric Helms.
can you please publish the link to those studies|papers (chicken stretching, and calf stretching)?
I have been doing this for a while ever since i heard about the quail study i use doubled over resistance bands to stretch my chest in a standing fly position
Oh my God how many Achilles tendons did they snap 😰
That's what I said those sound like very extreme measures for a study 😢
0! Probably made them better! 😎👍🏻
Probably too many😂
I love chilling in pigeon. Probably my favorite stretch.
Amazing for the posterior chain. Love how it relaxes the fascia/tissues in the hips and glutes especially
Rack pulls are amazing for traps 🇧🇷❤💪🏼
Is post workout stretching also proven to help with muscle growth?