The Themes Explored in Batman: The Long Halloween
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- Опубликовано: 8 июл 2024
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This episode analyzes the themes found in Batman: The Long Halloween which include family, duality, and balance. The central engine of the story is a murder mystery and trying to figure out who is Holiday, a disguised killer who attacks the mob. The book works on a number of levels and subverts some expectations by using Batman as the foil, but not the protagonist. This is the definitive story about Harvey Dent, aka Two Face.
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Развлечения
I don't generally like mafia stories, but one consistent exception is when they are Batman mafia stories.
Scarface?
Kuziwakwashe Chikwete Scarface is not mafia it’s a gangster film, unless you’re talking about the original italian scarface
@@cozmonet So an Italian was playing the cuban version of an Italian character?
@@kchikwete Yeah, pretty much xD
@@kchikwete Goodfellas, Godfather, Departed?!
The art was what kept me a long time from reading the Long Halloween. But once I started to read it I noticed Tim Sale's art is perfect for this type of story and it become one of my favourite, if not my favourite, Batman stories.
Jaros Bodytko Same thing for me with Sale’s art in Spider-Man: Blue it sets such a great mood imo
Definitely agree! Well said.
Jaros Bodytko personally i prefer Sale’s art in Superman For all Seasons
Same
It's not to everyone's immediate tastes. But if you like noir at all, or appreciate shadowing, you will find yourself lingering on the page well after you have absorbed the story on them!
I thought Holiday was Alberto and Gilda. Gilda started out, then after Alberto faked his death, she thought Harvey took over (but it was actually Alberto). Harvey thought the two Holidays were Alberto and then himself (Harvey thinking he became the second Holiday when he killed Falcone).
I'd like to see Chris' top 10 Batman stories.
I second this
I think he said it on Twitter
I agree
Knightfall
@@dead0ntime Can you say what he had in the top 10?
That pumpkin never stood a chance.
_The Long Halloween_ is actually the story I typically recommend to people who want to get into Batman: The art fits the mood perfectly, most of the big names in Batman's rogues gallery make an appearance, it does an excellent job at showing how Batman interacts with both law enforcement and criminals, *Batman is actually a detective in this story* (something that needs to happen more often), & its all around a good story.
I usually say Year One to someone just starting out but I think you’re right and I might switch to The Long Halloween. Year One is great but might be a touch bland and esoteric to ppl just starting out. If you want peak batman being a peak detective fighting peak villains then The Long Halloween is probably the best batman story ever. It’s gorgeous to look at and has a lot to say while being consistently compelling.
@@stefanfilipovits21 Yeah, the only downside is that its a bit long - but it does actually say that in the title, so...
Archi Teuthis Funny, I would recommend Batman Hush, as that story shows Batman’s relationship with Superman, it shows Ra’s Al-Ghul, Mr. Freeze (I think) and virtually all of his enemies.
@@Christ2010Grad Hush is a great Batman story to recommend to people who are mostly interested in the art. The story gets pretty convoluted at the end & assumes readers already know about Jason Todd, Ras Al Ghul, etc so that's why I don't generally recommend it as a starting point for people who aren't more excited about the art than anything else
Now I'm just going to tell people that Long Halloween has the same vibe as The Batman, so if they liked that, they'll probably like the comic.
Me: "Man, Those intros never get old, oh ... You caught me reminiscing about how Comictropes intros are always entertaining" 😉
I don't recall that "Har V. Dent" note. Holy cow. Great eye.
I'm not a native english speaker, so I didn't get It.
Pablo H G de Moraes V tends to stand for “Versus”, the VEY in Harvey is pronounced like the letter, V, “Har v. Dent” means the struggle between himself, and his political self
Spouse? For real? Are congratulations in order?
The Long Halloween is a classic.
One of my favourite title from one of my favourite comic book duos!
Together Jeph Lobe and Tim Sale have made a lot of great comics
@@kendallmoore4826 Haunted knight is probably my number 1:) my next to read is "when in rome" but that one is really hard to find in a physical copy here in Scandinavia
I love how a story can be so great that it redefines a character decades afterwards. You mentioned Two-Face and Joker, but I'd say BTAS's Mr Freeze fits as well.
Do Batman: The Cult
Which seems to be the origin of Dark Knight Rises but in an insane 80s way
High points: batman & robin driving a monster truck through the city shooting everyone they see with a mounted machine gun and batman stealing a picnic 🧺 basket to eat the hard boiled eggs inside shell and all, like he’s yogi bear
Kendall Moore i picked up the full story in one big used soft cover and was amazed by how great it was, Batman isn’t OP but he is very well equipped, it was/is a good fun read
The Cult has always been a personal favorite of mine. I feel like The Cult and Death in the Family were largely supposed to represent the shift of the camp Batman style to heady R rated Batman of more recent decades. Both very intentionally campy stories that both have very dark and brutal resolutions.
Found a local comic book store near me, this might be the first comic I'll get!
That’s an AWESOME first buy to make. There’s also a damn good sequel by the same team called Dark Victory. It’s not as flawless as The Long Halloween but it’s an incredible follow-up. Year One would make a good first buy too.
You're in for a ride!!! Enjoy :)
Have fun!
Enjoy! That was my first graphic novel too. It is a great start, also like the others if you like it I recommend its sequel Dark Victory and Year One as a prequel of sorts.
@@stefanfilipovits21 I didn't know there was a sequel, now I'll check it out.
Thanks, dude!
I like when the story focuses on Batman being a detective and solving mysteries
great video! I love how down to earth you are, even doing a video about a story that isn't among your personal favorites. Instead of rolling your eyes and being sarcastic about, you gave us a great documentary. Thanks!
Year One and Long Halloween are my favorite Batman stories.
@@kendallmoore4826 The first Batman comic I ever read was probably the one that came with the Batman Cereal after the Tim Burton movie. Then, my uncle got a leather bound TDKR/Year One combo book for my grandfather. I gobbled that up at ... like 8. So for me, Batman was born with those two comics, and his hunt for Joe Chill.
An interesting point I heard from another reviewer is the concept of "the long defeat." Basically the battle between good and evil is eternal. The story shows that Batman ultimate desire to rid Gotham of crime is futile.
The story shows at the end Batman will either die or become like Harvey Dent that's basically his only two ways his life can end. "Either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain."
I really loved how long how Batman long Halloween really focus on Harvey dent becoming two- face.
And to me I felt like a long Halloween was a sequel to Batman year One.
A continuation of some characters that we never really knew what ever happened to that Frank Miller kind of left with any real acknowledgement of whatever happened to them. Like Carmine Falcone and his family.
This story really took its time of making you feel while you're reading it that you're also in the shoes of bat bad but also argued that try to figure out who was the holiday killer yet left you with so much suspense.
It truly was a great story because you saw the fall of Harvey.
Great story
It was indeed intended specifically to be a sequel to Year One. Archie Goodwin tasked Loeb and Sale with returning to the gangster characters Miller created and depicting the transition of Gotham from being ruled by the mob to being terrorized by costumed freaks.
Great one Chris the long Halloween is one of my favourites
Same
Alex Hastings it’s my favorite Batman story personally
The opening of this video looks like one of those infomercials. "Don't you hate when this happens? It doesn't need to happen to you with new Blumco Pumpkin Grip Gloves."
Alberto Falcone committed all the murders after the first 2. Golda merely thought Harvey had taken over when she heard of Alberto's disappearance, and remembered him coming home late that night.
One of my fave Batman stories. Just found your channel recently (through the Moon Knight video) and have enjoyed going back and watching older videos. Subscribed. Keep up the good work.
My read on the resolution to the mystery was that Gilda did the first three murders and then Alberto did the rest. I thought she was only imagining that Harvey Dent was Holiday 2 due to her hero worship and also being kind of out of her mind. Granted, it still doesn't explain the entirely coincidental good timing of the "changing of the guard" - how Alberto knew when to start killing and Gilda knew when to stop - but it's still just as messy the Gilda / Harvey / Alberto way if not more so.
I absolutely love Tim sale's artwork
Me too. Idk why ppl diss Sale's style so often?
I loooooove The Long Halloween. I think it’s the most cinematic batman comic ever made. A lot of that is by design, I know, there’s tons of mafia movie, film noir, and especially Godfather references and style. However, I never got distracted by them. I feel like they make it a stronger story as a whole. They make the themes richer and give the story more to say. I think it’s a masterpiece. Dark Victory is also very good but I don’t think it’s as stylized or has as much to say as The Long Halloween.
My favorite Batman story. I read it every year around Halloween.
I knew there was a reason I enjoyed your analyses. Watching this and you repeat things I'm saying in my head as I think it, you are totally on the money. Keep on keeping on. Your content enriches.
One of my favorite comics of all time! So happy you talked about it!
I love this story as well as your channel! Keep up the solid work, and keep reading comics!
I loved how the pumpkin broke in a really unsatisfying way.
Made it somehow funnier.
when I was a kid I had a tradition of dropping my jackolanterns off of an overpass walkway into the street below. playing it off as an accident was essential to avoiding confrontation with any bystanders. that intro sure brought back some memories.
This would have been the perfect episode to transition from horror month to crime month
One of the best Batman comics, been waiting for this one for a while
Another great watch. Thanks, Chris!
My favourite Batman story... Read this so many times, love the story, love the art, it is just brilliant.
It is always a joy to watch your videos.
I never enjoyed the triple twist that Harvey's wife was the second killer, always thought it was annoyingly cheap. I liked the idea that it was Alberto in trying to destroy all his father built, as well as a new villain.
Thanks Chris I really enjoy your videos
These are the aspects of Batman that get lost in the shuffle currently. There are to many creative ideas that are not being explored in just the base criminals, serial murders, rapists, sadist and insane that the comics should explore more then just the super heroics, mystic angles that Bruce is currently involved in. This story is a perfect example.
Oh Hi, you caught me believing ComicTropes is one of the best comic channel creators #LuvinIt:p
Insightful take and a satisfying analysis. I’d only ever heard of this story by name and high up on Nolan’s choice cuts for his Dark Knight. I’m truly impressed by how good the writing is. No wonder much of it was translated to screen without any alteration or modification whatsoever. I need to get clued up on the team behind the creation of source material like this. It’s interesting to note its flaws too, the pacing and overwrought narrative seem like some kind of unavoidable contrivance from what I can only presume were behind-the-scenes comic industry business decisions or something. Fantastic insight was gleaned through your thorough video-cheers man!
It was after loving Batman Begins and hearing the the next film would take a lot of pointers from The Long Halloween that convinced me to go out and buy it, only the second graphic novel (as the format I read it) I had bought. Read it relentlessly in the years since.
Another amazing video. Great stuff, great stuff. Love this channel.
Harvey wasn’t talking about himself when he said there were two killers. He was talking about Gilda and Alberto. Dent only became a killer AFTER he had become Two-Face.
If you think about it Alberto Falcone is Michael Corleone if instead of wanting nothing to do with his dad Vito's criminal empire was so obsessed with getting his father's approval and becoming a part of it that he was willing to kill his dad's enemies.
Honestly the greatest comic book related channel on RUclips and in RUclips history
I always like the face fore-shadow-ing of Harvey, and how Tim Sale renders lighting in general
Chris I love your videos, you analyzed this book very effectively and I’m glad you gave criticism without flat out bashing the story. Great video!
Masculinity is a major theme in the story, represented by contrasting figures like the hulking, muscular Batman and the slender, androgynous joker, or Carmine's veneer of poised sophistication versus his son's effete neuroticism. Notice also the contrast between dashing, classically handsome Harvey Dent and both the wiry Alberto and the seemingly (but deceptively) retiring and passive Gilda.
Very often we see outwardly powerful men humbled or embarrassed in ways that undercut their strength and assertiveness, like when the Joker pulls a comically large gun on Maroni and declares, "Mine's bigger!" or when Maroni's father orders him "Be a man," only for Maroni to be rendered helpless by his father's murder moments later. Batman, too, falls victim to this trope, as we see the Scarecrow infantilize him with grief over his dead mother, and Poison Ivy subverts not only his free will but his public image as a man of integrity.
I think Dr Wayne operating on Falcone was a nod to the classic story where Lew Moxon had him operate on after kidnapping him from a masquerade party where he was wearing a proto Bat suit. I can't remember the name of the story, but I'm pretty sure it's from 1948.
I love Loeb/Sale Batman stories, but another weakness is that for most villans Loeb only seems to really write Two Face well. Scarecrow & Mad Hatter have nothing to say. Joker & Riddler have very little to say they all just recite schtick to greater or lesser degrees. Year One & Long Halloween are among my favorite Batman stories though, I love the gangster stuff infinatley more than a Justice League Batman. I just finished Dark Victory and with this refresher on Halloween it's really got me thinking about aspects of that book. Year One, Long Halloween and Dark Victory work as a fantastic arc.
Liked this while the Comic Tropes theme was playing. Couldn't help myself. Luckily the episode was more than worthy. Great work Chris. 😁👍
Please do Dark Victory! I love your take on the long Halloween
The art looks so cool
Oh hi! You got me again!
Love the channel! Keep making content!
I hear this guy talking about the art work and as much as I love Byrne, Perez,Bucsuma,Bagley,Kane,Infantino,etc. I think the art work here although exaggerated fits and also moves the story along.
Love your honesty in these videos. Have to say I really enjoy Tim Sales art. It was almost like a Kirby experience for me, as in it took me a while before I truly enjoyed the style, although I will say sometimes it does cross the line, becoming a little too cartoonish.
The Long Halloween could easily be the definitive Two-Face story as you mentioned, and we all know The Killing Joke to be the definitive Joker story. What would everyone consider is the definitive Riddler story? If there is one
Perhaps 'zero year' by Scott Snyder?
Around the time they created _Sandman_ together, Neil Gaiman & Sam Keith did an issue of _Secret Origins_ featuring Two-Face, Riddler, and Penguin (with Joker's presence felt throughout although not making an appearance per se). I consider the Riddler and Penguin segments to be the definitive stories for those characters (especially the latter)
@@architeuthis3476 I'll be checking bins for this one!
@@TheJMuise87 It shouldn't be too hard to find, and probably for ~$1 in decent condition. I should probably point-out that when I said _I_ consider the Riddler and Penguin stories to be definitive, I have no doubt that a lot of people are going to tell mee I don't know what I'm talking about and explain why there are better stories out there (I'm sure _Hush_ will come-up a lot, although its not one of my favorites). Keep in mind its just my opinion.
@@architeuthis3476 Hush is great, but it's a reinvention, not an origin.
Lighting looks fantastic!
My favorite Batman storyline, thanks for the video Chris. 😊
You’ve gotta read The Cult
I love stories about Batman being a detective, which is the main problem I have with this story. It is ostensibly centered around a mystery, but Batman completely fails to do any detecting, and the solution makes no sense and doesn't matter. Literally anyone could have been revealed as Holiday at the end without changing anything earlier in the story.
Compare it to another Tim Sale-illustrated story, James Robinson's "Blades" from Legends of the Dark Knight 32-34. Batman is hunting "Mr. Lime," a serial killer targeting the elderly. It's not even the main focus of the story (which is about The Cavalier), but the mystery "plays fair" - the killer is someone we've seen in the story but likely never suspected, and Batman deduces their identity through information available to the reader. That's much more satisfying than Jeph Loeb seemingly making shit up on the fly just to have a twist ending.
Agree. I thought the mystery aspect of Dark Victory - the sequel to The Long Halloween - was actually structured a lot better AND did a better job of justifying The World's Greatest Detective's struggle with the mystery by having him realize he's been suffering long-term effects of Scarecrow's fear gas. The mystery wraps up much more neatly - there's just one killer, there's no "which victim was killed by Harvey / Gilda / Alberto" ambiguity that left The Long Halloween in such a gray area, and the clues are a lot more fair. It's too bad a lot of the other elements of Dark Victory didn't work as well as they did in The Long Halloween, but I still like it a lot.
Man, I love your videos.
I hope the new Batman movie takes inspiration from the Denny O'Neil, Scott Snyder and Tom Kings runs
@@fid9255 Denny O'Neil for the detective
Scott Snyder for Gotham
Tom King for the physiological
@@aaroncrilly2005 And maybe Grant Morrison for the villain/s
... just Denny.
I think it would be better the Batman movie take inspiration from Batman the Animated Series.
@@kendallmoore4826 Exactly. In fact the opening of the series could serve as inspiration for the opening of the movie, that could already start with Batman beating up some thugs (maybe a villain of him as well) and then the scene ends with the cops find the bad guys all beaten up, and Batman watch all from the top of a building, with a lightning reveling his full visual.
It would be a great way to establish Batman already as this mysterious and dark vigilante (with no needing of telling the origin again) and also a way to tribute one of the best adaptation of Batman outside the comics.
great video! I love the story and I had the good fortune to meet Tim Sale at the 2019 fan expo canada.. he's a nice down to earth kinda guy
Even though Batman has endless amounts of money, fights villains like the Joker, a clown, killer moth and poison ivy. He lives in the same world as Superman but despite this goofiness he is really grounded which always keeps him interesting
This is probably the one and only Batman story with a twist I didn't see coming a mile away. It is plausible because she knew he picked it up but he didn't know who the original was.
If the baby nipple worked at all, it would only be for the first shot, and the tiny .22"be
So, what ARE your top 10 favorite Batman stories?
Yes please
You dropped the pumpkin. YOU DROPPED THE PUMPKIN.
...That phrase could be a DANDY euphemism for something.
Good vid, mate. I personally never felt this one as much as some people, and the resolution was a big part of why, but it's a decent enough read. Not TDKR or Year One levels, but not many people could write Batman like Miller could back in the '80s.
I love the Yacht Rock intro throwbacks!
Great video! You mentioned so many stuff I noticed and more that I did not! Looking forward to rereading it. Also please make a video on its sequel Dark Victory as well or on Batman Hush. Do you think Jeph Loeb did as well on that mystery reveal? Cheers!
Thanks for this one Chris.
Because of you I'm now the proud owner of : The Long Halloween & Dark Victory & Catwoman when in Rome and MAN they're awesome yes the art is a bit weird but absolutally loved it for being so surrealistic.
I love your & channel & your videos.
Now I want a top ten Batman Stories list
I will go revisit this serie. The art is pretty interesting.
I especially liked Calendar Man's design
One of my absolute favorites
One of the best Batman stories ever made .
Jeph Loeb was such a great writer and then he just fell off a cliff and he was not good at all
Similar to Frank Miller.
Ehh he definitely dropped off during stories like ultimatum but I feel like he really picked himself up a bit. He helped produce the daredevil show on Netflix so that's quite the glow up
How so?
Awesome video dogg 👏👏👏
You missed the chance to make an intro where everything looks black and white before Holiday shoots you.
Nice review. While this remains (possibly) my favorite Gotham story, your critiques are totally valid.
Great review .. u make some valid points especially about the art but I'm surprised this didn't make you're top 10 its probably in my top 3
Thanks for another great video. Can’t wait to see what’s in store when you go to Japan!
Great review of that great series. It would be amazing if the new Batman movie follows this storyline, but also very challenging.
I loved the Long Halloween and it’s sequels. I hope you might look at those. Loeb and Sale are a great team. Their stories were as different from the main line of Batman as there had been. I have them in my collection. I haven’t been a regular reader or collector as I once was because I haven’t truly seen what in my opinion is anything really new or different in comics in years. I still read books in my collection and occasionally visit the comic book store I spent a lot of time in looking for story lines to follow. Thank you Chris for rekindling my interest again with your Comics Tropes presentations.
It would make sense if gilda spoke to only one side of dent
that poor pumpkin :(
Your intros are drop dead adorable.
The first issue tells you who the killer is. There is an image close up that shows something that many would dismiss as being unimportant but trust me....very important.
i look forward to you covering the sequel one day (or at least i hope you do at some point).
This is great.
One of my favorite Batman stories, also, it's awesome you have an Atari Force TPB...you need to do a cast on Atari Force.
the lack of conclusions in the long halloween bothers me more than anything
My favorite Batman book. One of the first trades I bought.
Please vlog from Japan as well! Great episode!
It might have its flaws, but it is still one of my favorite comic stories ever.
This mans intros are a thing of beauty
The ending of The Long Halloween has always reminded me of the plot twist in the Harrison Ford movie Presumed Innocent. Maybe the writers used as an inspiration of sorts.
Great video as always. You mentioned Long Halloween is not in your personal Top 10. I would love to know what IS in your Top 10! I'd really like to see a series of videos where you go over your Top 10 comics in various categories and then overall. Thank you.
Great work! TLH is one of my Top5 Batman stories. Since you said it wasn´t even in your Top10, I was wondering which are your favourite? Saludos desde Xalapa.
My biggest issue with this one was that there were way too many Godfather references. It was like Loeb had just seen the movie and wanted to stuff as many references as he could in, regardless of if they fit
gracias
I loved the Long Halloween. I haven't read it in awhile: might be time for a re-read.