I remember one time it was a slow night at the game store, only 4 players, and a new guy was there. He only brought one deck, but it was a very tuned Omnath Locus of Rage deck. He won, we moved on. He won again, we moved on. Then he won two more games. The whole time he complained every time we interacted with him. Game 5 I removed a lot of his stuff. He kept complaining and complaining, asking why I’m targeting him. At a certain point I had to cup my hands around my mouth and say “YOU HAVE WON EVERY GAME”. That’s my least favorite winners complaining story.
I remember back when I played fps. When people find out you win to much, you have earned a target on you. Get used to it and get better. Hate people that can't get that in far less adrenaline dumping games.
@@xaxscratchxax926 at one point I was playing a Queen Marchesa deck that was super heavy on interaction. I removed Omnath like, 4 turns in a row, he complained every time. Eventually he drew a Lightning Greaves to protect it and felt safe, passed to me and I cracked off a Council’s Judgment and he learned Shroud doesn’t protect.
i agree with free attacks, but you WILL carry negative favor 100%. ''You attacked me so i attack you now'' is one of the MOST common things happening in games.
I think people who pubstomp believe that they are winning so much because they are “better at deck building” or even just “better at Magic” and don’t have the awareness to realize that other people’s decks are weaker on purpose and that Commander isn’t the place to fulfill your power fantasy.
Commander *can be* the place to fulfill your power fantasy, if everyone is on board with it too. One-sided games because your wallet is fatter and your Google skills are better is a separate matter.
Totally agree, we had to recently kick someone out of the FNM's at my LGS because this one fellow legit felt like they made the greatest Jodah deck evah! Pubstomp everyone, instantly complained when anyone interacted with them AND would consistently fall back on the ''I make better decks than you'' trope when you get into a discussion about power lvls and deck building philosophies yet all they did was go to EDHREC and cram every popular card Jodah deck builders would typically include= no individuality ;p LOL
@@lambdalandis Yeah, I can get a little tired of a deck that’s absolute trash, *except* when it hits a Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond and Sol Ring + an OG dual or Shock. Don’t tell me about your awesome deck-building skills when you haven’t won a game that didn’t have a 1,200$ Turn 1 in, well, ever.
This is more my personal issue and not a common thing. I'm new at this game. I'm 62 and a started playing magic with my son and a couple of his friends as a reason to see him more often. After a couple months I tried making my own deck instead of using a precon. Others keep telling me what I should do and what cards to add. What commander I should build the deck around. I don't mind losing as long as I'm learning. Let me win or die on my own. Stop pointing out what you think are my mistakes. Ok. Sorry for ranting. Lol.
You should play exactly what ever type of deck you think is fun ( keep in mind how fun it will be to play against: easiest example 20 counter spells from a single player will not be a fun game )
My biggest pet peeve are people who play a deck that has solitaire turns, and during their turns, they keep saying "oh my god. This deck is insane. This is crazy how it's popping off. I'm so sorry. This is insane". YOU BUILT THE DECK. YOU KNOW EXACTLY HOW THAT DECK WORKS!
My Brago dungeons/initiative deck does this late game. I usually let everyone know I'm about to go on a long turn that will likely lead to me drawing into or figuring out a line to win before it's over so they have a chance to just end it there.
To be honest: it happened to me before. I was playing modified strixheaven precon and in the middle of my turn I realized that I can make like 80 mana, draw 20 cards and cast 30 spells. I literally didn't wanted to do that, but people who were playing with asked me to go on with it. My turn lasted like 20 minutes and it wasn't even over, but we all agreed that it's time to finish it and I was declared winner.
Sometimes the decks are smarter than the people who’ve built them. I have a friend who consistently builds decks that do way more than he even imagined they could.
A great video to make as a partner to this one: Things commander players LOVE. I know I have friends who are just a joy to play with for whatever reason. Just an idea for a positive spin on this video
My friend made a deck for his wife that involves a lot of searching her library for equipment, she only plays or even touches magic cards on the once a month that we play. Every search trigger takes her 10 minutes reading every card, it's rough. If I said anything I'd instantly be the bad guy. 😑
On the topic of respecting other players' time I've had half the pod get up to go smoke the wacky tobaccy in a friend's car in the middle of a game before... they were gone for two hours. Needless to say me and the other player were pissed and not exactly in the mood to play anymore by the time they got back and "Sorry we got super high and forgot" wasn't exactly a good enough excuse.
@@EvilerOMEGA ummm… isn’t the reason for double-sleeving, BECAUSE people are afraid to damage the cards? If someone bent my Underground Sea while shuffling or whatever, you’d better believe I would start freaking out.
Wait you said spilling coke on dice once destroyed them? What were they made of? Sugar? Seriously, unless the carbonation some how ate threw the resin I don't see why you wouldn't be able to just wash them off with soap...
Regarding the "phone distractions", if it takes you 2 minutes or more to decide how to do your turn (or if your turn is 10 minutes of synergy), you can't complain if everyone else starts getting bored enough to get distracted by their phones. Commander takes long enough without you trying to do the absolute most optimal play with a deck you just put together that day. Make the misplays so that there is a next game to do better in.
@@yoyoguy1st yeah they really should talk for their own group, especially the knowledge one so arrogant. Our group loves new players and don't mind explaining actions and combos so they know for the future,
OMG I have a pubstomping and mad about being threat story. At an LGS playing with my pod but we were 1 short. Random comes and asks to play. We're like sure, but just so you know, me and my friend are very new to MTG and other buddy is kinda teaching us. He goes I just started recently as well. Cool. Game starts, and dude has like 4 inifinite combos going on turn 3. I'm like cool, this was fun. Then proceeds to get upset next game when all 3 of us target him :D.
Thank you for mentioning inappropriate gears. I have spotted so many disturbing NSFW anime playmats in my LGS, and do not have the confidence to stop this.
My biggest pet peeve are people who play decks that only have counter spells in them because their commander is based around instants and sorceries. Countering things that have a big impact makes sense, but countering everything is so annoying.
This. And putting your deck up front too. I started with Yugioh as a kid, and the way I lay out my board is similar to how you do it in that game (before pendulums). Deck down to the right, graveyard to the right of that, exile above graveyard, artifacts and enchantments above deck, lands to the left of the deck, and creatures above the lands.
@@kenniron6313 I used to lay out my board like that, but I usually sit to the left of my girlfriend who puts her library forward left and she knocked my deck over more than once while reaching to draw. So now I put my deck as far forward as I can comfortably reach on a second playmat in the middle of the table
@@kenniron6313 Is deck up front an issue? Everyone at my LGS plays with their deck pretty high up on a corner of their mat, usually just under their commander. Lands up front is whack but I thought that wasn't legal anymore?
My groups rule on takesie backsies is the same as spider mans: everybody gets 1. We're more lenient with new players, especially if the take back involves some weird or unnusual interaction. we also use the rule of thumb of if there's new information or not, and if the new information would impact the take back. It makes using your take back a real decision, and adds a layer of "oh no!" When a player tries to use their take back and the table reminds them they already used it to play their land on someone elses upkeep
Regarding the hypothetical "I'm being attacked for 100 lifelink so I scoop out of spite" example- how would you feel if that person used in-game actions to kill themselves out of spite, rather than scooping? Say the player getting attacked is at less than 3 life and they bolt themself.
I think that's entirely fine since they used game pieces. They had the bolt, they had the mana. Might still feel spiteful, but it has less "taking my ball and going home" energy.
It definitely depends, I usually ask because sometimes people find paying all your life to a toxic deluge hilarious and other times they get mad that you’re ‘king making’ when you pay your last life points to your necropotence. 🤷♂️
@@scorp9171 Yes but paying all your life to TD is sorcery speed and not something you're doing in response to someone benefitting from attacking you. The Necropotence one is though, and I think it's a valid decision.
@@SweetOddBoi That’s kinda my perspective too but based on the variety of responses I’ve gotten I’ve learned to just ask rather than be the reason everyone had a bad night. Ya know what I mean?
"You're really not going to incur any negative favor from two damage." Bull. I once dealt 3 damage to a player across the first 3 turns and then two turns later he swung 9 10/10s at me.
One thing I see called 'kingmaking' that I disagree with is making the person killing you pay to the maximum to do so. 'Why are you kingmaking by wasting my resources?' 'Because you're trying to kill me? That has costs.'
I see that as the exact opposite. If you don't make killing you cost the maximum, I would consider that king-making (or at least heavily helping the person that just killed you)
Personally once I'm clearly about to die I like to avoid taking actions because I want to see how the game is gonna play out - even if I could take someone down with me out of spite. I can see the scenario though where I would tell someone "if you try to take me out I'm going to take you down with me" and then you have to follow through.
@@japplek I get what you are saying, but I think that if you don't at least make intelligent blocks, you are helping the player that is killing you massively. I don't think its fair to anyone else left in the game to leave your killer with a board bigger than they deserve.
You know, explaining how badly you’ll tax someone for them to take you out might lead to them taking another action and changing the course of the game… Assuming the player wants to win and not simply beat you, they may take another course. I see that as legitimate in commander
Our group does as many free mulligans until you get "a hand you like" and it's really just up to you. When it gets to like 4 that's egregious and someone will say "ok this is it no matter what". Only time I'll pile shuffle is when I start a SESSION or I get back to back hands of 5 lands/ no lands/ 5 lands/ no lands. We also play super honest so its not like someone is going for a god hand every time, but if we pile shuffled after each muligan someone is catching these hands (in game of course)
I don't like the Scooping at Sorcery Speed mantra. I agree with not spite scooping but I feel like scooping anytime the stack is empty or a turn is ending is appropriate. Basically if someone puts 5 extra turns on the stack, I think scooping at the end of the first turn is appropriate.
It isn't takesy backsy if you notice someone didn't put an artifact in their graveyard. That is them cheating and you catching them or everyone not noticing and you rectifying the situation.
Kingmaking is in my opinion not that simple. I would say there is a social aspect to it. In the end commander isn't competetive game, people play to have fun and sometimes having fun means you don't play super optimally and consider everything on the table. Sometimes kingmaking is just "you ruined my chances of winning, therefore I'll make you lose before I lose myself" in the lategame and I think it's completely fine. Commander is social game, you dont' get a trophy for winning so as long as you have fun and you aren't an asshole it's fine in my book.
Something to add to your list; locking people out of the game. The pod had 2 mono-black decks, a Selesnya enchantress deck, and a mono-blue artifact deck. The commanders were Horobi, old Tinybones, Sythis, and Leonardo da Vinci. The Selesnya player decides to play Choke on their turn three because the mono-blue player cast Pongify on the creature attacking them. They were locked out for 3-5 turns and the game ended 2 turns after Choke left the battlefield.
See I know for sure a lot of the players at my tables are annoyed by removal, and I'm certain there are several who are annoyed by a 4 mana 3/3 named Krenko Mob Boss who can be tapped to create a 1/1 goblin creature token for every goblin you control.
I'm not sure they're annoyed by the removal itself. They just might be annoyed that their 4 mana 3/3 mono-red commander costs 20 mana because they are the only ones getting removed. At that point, it's a game of archenemy with no extra life or scheme cards for the archenemy
I’ll say that the Krenko player should understand though that by having him in the command zone he is sort of asking to be archenemy from the get go. Just like some of my decks that have a reputation people are aware and play against it accordingly. I just try my best to play around the hate and have fun
@@EvilerOMEGA well if thats what you made of my comment. if someone plays krenko its kinda a main target for everyone at the table, and if ppl complain about it being removed fast then they should not play commanders like Krenko. But if you do you should not be salty everytime its gets targeted or removed.
Holding the win. I can see where people say there power levels and they are off. The higher power player. Decides the pump the breaks. To actually have a game.
When it comes to holding back the win, I often do it with my spellslinger deck, because it goes infinite in so many ways, and my pod wouldn't want me to play with it anymore. If it's late in the game though, and I haven't found a non-inf wincon, I will just pop off and end the game. We have a Rule 0 against tutor for infinite combos, especially 2 card combos, but late game the pod are usually happy for the game to be over and start a new one, maybe with a different deck they really want to try out.
@@julianstrnad222 if you play with people you know, yes, totaly. My general attitude with casual commander is anyway "takes as much mulligans as you want. I want to play against players who can play the game. I trust you are not searching the perfect hand". In any other setting like strangers or tournaments id be very careful
I have killed myself by tapping a fetch land when somebody attacked me so they didn’t get their attack triggers. It was definitely a spite play, but I also didn’t scoop. I used a game action that was available to me to take myself out of the game.
Just a note, they do still get attack triggers if you do it after they have declared attacks, but they still won't get damage triggers. I definitely don't mind that.
'I swing at you with lethal boardstate.' 'I block with all my 1/1's. All your creatures will die because of that enchantment i clearly spoke about 2 turns ago giving all my first-striking creatures deathtouch.' 'Oh i wouldnt have attacked you if i had remembered that. Can i take that back? 'No, that is the whole point of me having these cards in the deck. If i let you take it back it defeats the purpose of me casting them in the first place.' '😢'
I kind of disagree with your point about the Ashiok example. Your card is still certainly functioning, it's forcing your opponents to make different plays due to its restrictive ability. I personally don't think that the card's power comes from "my opponent wastes mana and spells sometimes because they forget this effect is on the table."
I once sat down at a table at my LGS an a guy declared his deck an "upgraded precon" then proceed to play mostly $40+ staples/powerful cards like rhystic study, sheoldread the apocalypse, orcish boowmasters, and the one ring. Then had the audacity to be upset when called out for calling that an "upgraded precon". like I know technically it was "upgraded" but when we were discussing power level he 100% made it sound like 5-10 on theme cards to tighten up the deck not high power edh deck wearing a precon as a mask.
I think when it comes to take backs a big problem is the amount of information can be overwhelming and it’s hard to keep track even on arena with all the emblems and reminders misplays can occur. I really believe keyword markers could help games go smoother when I can see from across the table “that creature has a heart and a skull so it has lifelink and death tough”
Be okay with not playing perfect and making mistakes. You will always remember you butchering a combo or sequence in your deck over taking back and "Oopsie". I tell my playgroup to focus on playing the game more quickly and learning, over perfect and slower. We get like 4 games in a night when before it was 2 long drawn out games that got boring.
Takesy-backsies, in my pod are usually the kind of "ok, I have 9 mana, I want to cast these two spells", but you realize that you tapped the wrong lands for the first spell, and don't have the right color mana for the second. It's no biggie, unlimited takes backs on that, it's noticed and fixed in seconds. However if it happens every turn it gets annoying, but it usually only happens when a player is trying out a new brew or something, and even then, they learn fast. To your example, max 1. Many newer players, myself included, aren't familiar with that card, so a friendly reminder is ok. But not more.
For me it’s when people are being petty and also when people counter everything anyone does and they don’t even win like bro please if you’re gonna stop everything then please win
RE: Missing Free Attacks, "free" attacks aren't always free and/or isn't "missing" the attack. You could be anticipating a hasty creature (Aftermath Samut, OG Urabrask, etc commander), or not want to make yourself an enemy early. You are making an assumption on the part of the other player when you aren't in their head, which isn't really great. It's the same as assuming what a deck does based on the commander. You can make an educated guess on what a deck does, but you don't know for sure, and assumptions can hinder more than help.
I definitely see what you’re saying about attacking the person with the most life. It can be frustrating when there’s clearly a threat. However, I notice that it happens a lot earlier in the game because it’s an easy justification to attack someone without singling them out as the threat otherwise. It can be a way to keep neutral while still progressing the game by attacking.
Agreed- I think in different contexts this can be appropriate. It could be part of your strategy to try and seem neutral maybe? There might not always be a “right” player to attack so you pick an opponent for a seemingly arbitrary reason, which might not garner too much attention . But sometimes it’s VERY clear who should be attacked haha
Speaking of pubstomping, I once played a casual FNM at my LGS. My first game I was I a four person POD with two guys who pulled out-of-the-box precons out. My deck was not CEDH but it was quite stronger so I decided not to take advantage of a special partner mechanic. The fourth guy pulled out a 10-15k sliver deck. Killed me to poison. Also insisted to look at every single card I played, read it for five minutes, and question if I was playing my commander costly every single time. Next round I played 3 more precons. I pulled out my barely upgraded Shallai Hallar Precon we had a great time.
Rule 0: - Read your card on cast. - If it’s discussed that people don’t want staxs or two card combo, then don’t play those decks. - if your first main phase is taking longer than 5 minutes. Spend more time with rule one and goldfish.
I hate when people try politicking their way out of overextending. Swinging out a being tapped out whining to be left alone. Like incessantly whining. Also just straight up lying. Saying youre going to do something and then do the opposite. "Im going to give you so many vampires with that card you just played" then kills that card the next turn and reanimates it for themself. Like cool, ya got me bud.
I'm sure you'd agree, but it's very common in this community for people to have social anxiety. So yes, it's nice if someone talks you through their cards and play, but also keep in mind some people might have a hard time doing it. I've played with a few people that were about silent game 1 - 3 or better, then night 2 or 3, they're talking like they're your best friend from pre k. At the same time, I've played with people who have social disabilities and often don't talk much or at all. That might not change but can still make for a great pod member.
Yes always let it go back to hand in the ashiok situation, always. Its known information, nobody is going to try to search their library in any way knowing that they cant. If they do, they forgot and you tell them and they take it back to hand. Every time. (unless they want to counter their own spell or get a spell/land in the grave or something)
I think my biggest issue here is pile shuffling. i guess i roll with way more casual folks that yall but one pile shuffle before cuts isnt a big deal. it really doesnt take that long. it really does great at breaking up the lands if you get screwed on lands one game.
Yea i mean sometimes im playing a landfall and a few shuffles wont break up 34 lands back to back very well and only realize my mistake after drawing 7 lands and then top 3 being lands when i go to mulligan lol
@@harrisonwilloughby712 My caveat for this caveat is, “Unless the person introducing new information to the situation hasn’t done, or even allowed time for the player they’re responding to to clarify the nature of the changed boardstate. Last night, I had a guy Flash in a Tishana’s Tidebinder in response to my playing a 5/5 Walking Ballista w/ a Branching Evolution and my commander, Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider out. While I’m trying to prove to him with a documented ruling via my phone that his attempt to cause my Walking Ballista to lose all abilities before 2 stacked replacement effects take the place of the “base” 5 +1/+1 counters I paid 10 mana for to become 20 +1/+1 counters I can remove at instant speed w/ 20 effects put on the stack in response to his Tidebinder, he and the other opponent are trying to insist we’re past that point. A phase doesn’t end because one person is mentally past the point where everyone else is still in dispute/trying to get onto the same page about what happened in the step under contention. If someone jumps the gun and starts doing stuff because they’ve decided they believe they know how it’s all going to go, I’ll push through a roll-back even if I have to be a bit of a sick about it. Once people normalize jumping ahead of the rest of the table, nothing but conflict is sure to follow.
I totally agree about complaining when you are the threat. I am often the threat at the table. Either I’ve put out a fast board state that demands to be answered or I’m known to carefully sculpt my board state and hand to just win on one turn with certain decks. So my play groups rightfully target me. The funny thing is that they apologize for it sometimes. I’m like, “no, you did the right thing. I was the threat. Make me use my counters, destroy my stuff, attack me. Do it.” With that said, I do get improperly targeted because of what I might do sometimes. In those cases I wait until after the game and politely point out that so and so won too easily because of all the focus put on me.
one of my biggest pet peeves is when people expect others to cater to them and complain no matter what i do. if i go for the win (which is the point of the GAME, to win it), they’ll whine that my deck is “too strong” (in actuality they just have bad threat assessment + don’t play enough interaction and/or removal). on the other end of the spectrum, if i have the win in hand and DON’T cast it, the accusation is “yOuRe dRaWiNg oUt tHe gAmE” (in actuality there is someone else who has open blue mana + multiple cards in hand and plays counterspells, so i’m waiting for a better opportunity to try to secure the win as much as possible). i, as your opponent, am not responsible for how (in)efficient your deck is. on principle i’m not going to kneecap my own strategy just because you can’t answer an infinite combo or lethal damage. your skill issue is not my problem to solve. the worst one for me is bad threat assessment. if i have a bunch of creatures and a Gaea’s Cradle out, but no cards in hand (and no way to win on my turn), targeting me because you’re butthurt about an earlier turn - instead of going after the combo player about to storm off and machine gun the table - is not only bad threat assessment, it’s what i would consider a spite play. a third one: taking games personally. talking smack during a game is one thing, teasing each other is perfectly fine (and fun with an established playgroup); but getting angry that i attacked you for 1 with an Elvish Mystic and yelling for an entire minute is not only extremely awkward + unnecessary, it’s annoying. learn to take Ls in stride, folks. i do it plenty of the time. a good 75% of my time in pods is spent being the Archenemy 😂 so i have lots of practice lmao.
I ALWAYS pay someone back if they fuck with my board early, and I'm a big fan of "proportional response". Hit me for 1? Hold 4. Blow up my card draw engine? Hold 8. But like, once they get theirs, were even
I big taksie backsie issue nowadays is ward. Normally it's like "do you pay ward X?" "No can i take that back?" Over and over again. Kind of the same Mindset with ashiok the table gets 1 then the spell gets countered
Disagree about attacking players with the most life. Part of commander is the social and diplomacy aspects. Play the board, often times, and early enough, usually most life = the most info on board.
The game I played this weekend a player played all non elf creatures get -3/-3 and they only did it to kill my one creature with basilisk collar on it and it didn't kill anything else. 😅
I pile shuffle only in one of two scenarios: - A game has just ended, and I don't want my cards to be clumped by type like they were on my board - I've just finished adjusting the deck and it's currently sorted by type Aka I only do it if part or all of my deck is currently sorted
Pile shuffling mathematically does not increase or decrease the randomization of your deck- your cards are just as clumped together post pile shuffle Just mash shuffle more, that actually does randomize your deck
@@NitpickingNerds Hmm, interesting. Part of why I don't mash shuffle that many times is because I'm not very fast, so I feel like I'm wasting people's time. I suppose with practice, even 10 mash shuffles would be faster than the pile + 2 mashes I do currently.
For ashiok, takesies backsies all day. It's easy to forget when board states are complex and there are a lot of things modifying how it all works. People are already salty about a stax effect like that, why make it worse for them. I had an opposition agent on the field for 2 rounds of the table, then someone cast a rampant growth type effect. I was like "opposition agent" and they just scooped and walked off in a huff. Our rule zero was just about power level, and no one brought up concerns about stax or combos. That deck has like 3 effects that make opponents games harder, but does not deny them mana. Should I have mentioned that I have a few things that try to make life harder for opponnents?
I swear ya'll are talking about my LGS. For real though, why do so many people cast a spell and just say the name then move on like everyone knows exactly what it does!?
Pub stomping is my favorite thing to discuss, we had a player who never understood why no one wanted to casually play with because homie had infinite loops and one shot tricks in his Edgar markov deck and said it's not that good. He had easily put a big amount of money and thought into it
If you don't like that a player can concede at instant speed, get mad at Wizards of the Coast for allowing it in the rules. If it's a legal game action, it's a legal game action.
Playing Ashiok with the intention of catching players who are struggling to keep four-people's-worth of permanents and their effects straight at all times, strikes me as a distinctly UNFRIENDLY way of playing Magic. Outside of competitive settings I'm not sure where you can get away with playing like this for very long without killing the vibes. You are also going to need to play perfectly because now you're being held to the same standard. 🤮
18:00 I agree that "modified precon" is a blanket term. If you've changed out one card or all the way up to 20 cards (including landbase) it falls under modified. If you've replaced more than that you've rebuilt the deck and can no longer call it a precon in any way.
My priority in playing the game is not winning but rather testing my deck (cause i always tinker) to see how it feels in an actual game. Sure i'd like to win but its secondary.
Same, I am like a scientist: I just want fun interesting games and afterwards I spend the week tinkering for the next FNM. LOL my catch phrase at my LGS is: I came, I saw, I durdled :D
@@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299 i play mostly token or trial decks so durdling isn´t exactly what i tend to do. Usually i get at least 1 guy dead, if ust to prove a point
@@Cybertech134 then what is the point of playing in the first place? If you only ever play to get a feel of how the deck plays then what are you really doing that for? Why do you care how it plays if the end goal isn't to do its function and win?
In my combo decks, I never take free attacks. I don't want people to be worried about what I am doing, and if the game ends to people running out of life, 99% chance I did not win. If you are playing normal midrange value packed decks, free attacks are free value. But my combo doesn't care if they have 30 like or 3, or 300. Free attacks are helping other people more than me if I am playing combo. Plus, when people see their life total ticking down, they get concerned and want to do something to stop you from doing that. I don't want to draw attention sometimes. Also, there are haste creatures out there, better watch out! It might not be as free as you thought.
Question for the people. Does Craterhoof count as a combo? Like, if someone asks if I have combos, do I tell them I have Craterhoof? If so, at what point does an overrun not count as a combo?
It can be a high-salt card but it’s definitely not a combo card. Generally people are asking if you have any combos that go infinite or instantly win the game (food chain combo, thassas oracle, iso-rev, hullbreaker combos, infinite combat steps, infinite tokens, etc). There’s no need for craterhoof if you make infinite dual caster mages or splinter twins, for example. But people still complain about craterhoof so it’s not a bad idea to mention that it’s your finisher if you are concerned about matching power levels
I find that sometimes people get so engrossed in conversations (which is a good thing) that no matter how loudly or how many times I try to announce what am doing or playing they just don't hear/listen and its at that point I do stop trying to talk over them in order to save on having a sore throat later. They usually start paying attention at the I'm attacking you part. End point, yes playing your cards without talking is bad but likewise if people aren't listening after a number of attempts to inform them then what will be will be, thankfully it doesn't happen to often.
Holding back the win is a major pet peeve of mine, my brother does this all the time, he will set up some annoying lock to stop you from playing the game, very CLEARLY be able to just win and he just doesn’t…. Then at the end of the game he will brag that he could have won 5-6 turns ago and everyone else groans because we already knew that
i play a very aggressive Caesar, legion's emperor deck. it's all about burn, doubling up on Caesar's triggers, and getting 1/1's through for damage. there's one person in my play group that complains every time i bring it out, and every time he loses to it, or to a couple certain card, he'll non-stop hate on the deck and target me out of saltiness for the rest of the night. I've only played the deck 3 times in the last 5 months. I think that's definitely the most annoying thing I've had to deal with over my couple years of playing.
Here are mine: 1- Drinks on the table ( I’ve seen awful things ) 2- Rudeness ( especially like y’all said if someone is winning the game and they or something of their gets targeted. There is no need for name calling ( Olivia Golbert Hicks is bad to do this ) 3- Real life political talk at the table ( There’s just no place for it and it typically leads back to #2 lol )
I pile shuffle on my own time when I'm working on my decks and I organize everything by mana value and lands or whatever other metric to make cuts/replacements. I then put those all into a pile and pile shuffle a few times to try and distribute the heavily organized cards into a more chaotic form, and then go back to mash shuffling before putting the deck away until my next play session. Still, I agree never pile shuffle when sitting down for a game, you should have broken down any sort of organization before bringing the deck out.
I would add on to blood feud when players go after you because you won the last game despite playing a completely different deck and there are far more threatening board states on the table. I avoid playing with people who seem too emotional or take the game too seriously, since it takes away the fun for me. Fortunately, I scooped early into the second game when I realized this and found an awesome pod to play with for the rest of the day.
Concerning upgraded precons, my thought is if you've removed more than 50% of the precon-exclusive cards, then it's advanced to a new deck. Strictly better upgrades, and mana base upgrades, are just that: upgrades. Every other card in the deck is a reprint, so those card could have been anything with the deck's theme.
My unintentional Pubstomping story: I like Gargoyles. When I’m traveling I photograph them on buildings. I have several on my bookcases and in my yard, so over the years I’ve collected all the Gargoyles I’ve come across in Magic and put them in the back of one my binders. Last month I finally decided to make a tribal deck out of them, and let’s be honest here, Gargoyles are not a strong synergistic type, but I was very happy to have built the deck. At my lgs for FNM and after the main event game my group decided to have fun low-power game and I pulled out my Gargoyles and explained what it was. Well, I ended up with a bunch of flyers on board that nobody had answers for and just picked everyone off fairly quickly and people seemed disappointed. I was as surprised as everyone else how well it did but I’m pretty sure they felt pub stomped. (On a side note I want to mention a pet peeve for people that have holdover resentment for the previous game and attack someone because of something that happened in the last game. Do you feel it’s justified to attack a player just because they won the last game?)
Excuse you! My honorable Wilson, King of the Bears, must attack the player with the most life. He is honor bound to his Agent of Shadow Thieves to do so. Joke aside I do hate that logic. It often just lets stronger fields stay online longer and just chips off enough that sometimes lets that way more dangerous deck kill off your allies who might have been able to stop them.
Might be related to complaining about being the threat, but my biggest annoyance is people who constantly downplay their own threat level, especially when playing decks the whole table is familiar with and know are high power. Have a friend who does this CONSTANTLY; he plays decks like Xenagos, God of Revals, with multiple ways to trigger extra combat steps and can steamroll the whole table very early in the game, and we all know how quickly the deck can go off, but he never owns up to it. Gets insanely annoying every time. Also, on the Blood Feud thing, have another player (more acquaintance than friend), who recently admitted that he hated one of my decks and would target me specifically whenever I played it. And it wasn’t even a good deck, it was werewolves! The only thing I can think of is I managed to make my own extra combat steps to go off exactly once against him (and literally never again for as long as I had the deck) and he held a grudge ever since.
I am that Xenagos player! 😂 Well, almost, I only have one infinite attack combo. But the deck is full of ramp and big creatures with trample and/or flying. It has almost no interaction, and you can see what is coming long before it happens. If I play out Xenagos and will have 8 mana on my next turn, someone is going to take a lot of damage if there is no interaction. While the deck is scary, it is made to be easy to play for beginners, and vs 3 people there is usually enough interaction to keep it not dominating games.
@@acidcrow4051 Honestly, it's not the deck itself I have a problem with (mostly), it's genuinely just his attitude of 'I'm not the problem, I'm just here'. Like, his tone makes it clear he's TRYING to joke about it, but when he does it literally every time he plays the deck, or has put together any other scary board states, the joke isn't funny anymore.
@@SaintAbsol yeah, I know a guy like that, with his Voja deck. "They are only little elfs, just mana dorks really". Meanwhile there is a maskwood nexus on the table, and you take 26 damage and just curse at how much you hate Ward 3.
My biggest pet peeve is a subset of "Holding Back the Win"; and it's when players actively don't run finishers in their decks. Some of my most irritating play experiences have been against decks that take 30-minute "solitaire" turns making a bunch of value plays but at no point make any attempt to actually win the game, often because their decks CAN'T win the game. Respecting other players' time starts during deckbuilding! 🙏
I think playing commander after a couple of years has given me a new appreciation for the "modified precon" my buddies enjoy playing magic casually without spending too much money on boat loads of cards. right now im trying to upgrade my bloomburrow precon with cards only from the set it came from and without any one card swapped being worth more than 5$.
I’ve lost to a food deck because I didn’t see a mana rock mixed in with lands and they were able to sac one more food than I realized. I was seriously disappointed, especially after having soloed the cEDH Korvold player on turn 5 who was trying to pubstomp while the other 2 players just sat back setting up engines. They did a collective 1 damage, he took like 6 from his mana crypt, and I dealt the other 43.
Confused about free attacks. Why tap if next untapped, someone plays a hasty boy and hits you hard (possibly with triggers) because you were the one that hit them?
The Ashiok search example reminds me of a problem I have playing Kira, Great Glass Spinner. It never fells, even when I’ve explained the card, if I have Kira out for more than 2 turns someone tries to path one of my creatures and I say, “ok that tiggers Kira to counter that spell” and that person always wants to take it back. Now every one knows the path to exile is there and you can feel the game shift.
![[EDH] Ghalta, Primal Hunger $50 Deck! | $50 EDH | Budget Commander](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NO-LDCCwy_w/mqdefault.jpg)
I remember one time it was a slow night at the game store, only 4 players, and a new guy was there. He only brought one deck, but it was a very tuned Omnath Locus of Rage deck. He won, we moved on. He won again, we moved on. Then he won two more games. The whole time he complained every time we interacted with him. Game 5 I removed a lot of his stuff. He kept complaining and complaining, asking why I’m targeting him. At a certain point I had to cup my hands around my mouth and say “YOU HAVE WON EVERY GAME”. That’s my least favorite winners complaining story.
Brutal. After game two it would have been fair game for me. If you won 2 games in the same pod you don't get a third.
I remember back when I played fps. When people find out you win to much, you have earned a target on you. Get used to it and get better. Hate people that can't get that in far less adrenaline dumping games.
@@xaxscratchxax926 at one point I was playing a Queen Marchesa deck that was super heavy on interaction. I removed Omnath like, 4 turns in a row, he complained every time. Eventually he drew a Lightning Greaves to protect it and felt safe, passed to me and I cracked off a Council’s Judgment and he learned Shroud doesn’t protect.
@@stephenball2108 lmao 🤣 😂 😆 💀. Earned
unless you won game 5 you didn't end up solving the problem
i agree with free attacks, but you WILL carry negative favor 100%. ''You attacked me so i attack you now'' is one of the MOST common things happening in games.
I think people who pubstomp believe that they are winning so much because they are “better at deck building” or even just “better at Magic” and don’t have the awareness to realize that other people’s decks are weaker on purpose and that Commander isn’t the place to fulfill your power fantasy.
Commander *can be* the place to fulfill your power fantasy, if everyone is on board with it too. One-sided games because your wallet is fatter and your Google skills are better is a separate matter.
Totally agree, we had to recently kick someone out of the FNM's at my LGS because this one fellow legit felt like they made the greatest Jodah deck evah! Pubstomp everyone, instantly complained when anyone interacted with them AND would consistently fall back on the ''I make better decks than you'' trope when you get into a discussion about power lvls and deck building philosophies yet all they did was go to EDHREC and cram every popular card Jodah deck builders would typically include= no individuality ;p LOL
@@lambdalandis Yeah, I can get a little tired of a deck that’s absolute trash, *except* when it hits a Mana Crypt, Mox Diamond and Sol Ring + an OG dual or Shock.
Don’t tell me about your awesome deck-building skills when you haven’t won a game that didn’t have a 1,200$ Turn 1 in, well, ever.
THIS
@@silentcallingI agree with this
This is more my personal issue and not a common thing. I'm new at this game. I'm 62 and a started playing magic with my son and a couple of his friends as a reason to see him more often. After a couple months I tried making my own deck instead of using a precon. Others keep telling me what I should do and what cards to add. What commander I should build the deck around. I don't mind losing as long as I'm learning. Let me win or die on my own. Stop pointing out what you think are my mistakes. Ok. Sorry for ranting. Lol.
You’re a cool dad for playing magic with your son. He’s a lucky boy!
You should play exactly what ever type of deck you think is fun ( keep in mind how fun it will be to play against: easiest example 20 counter spells from a single player will not be a fun game )
My biggest pet peeve are people who play a deck that has solitaire turns, and during their turns, they keep saying "oh my god. This deck is insane. This is crazy how it's popping off. I'm so sorry. This is insane". YOU BUILT THE DECK. YOU KNOW EXACTLY HOW THAT DECK WORKS!
My Brago dungeons/initiative deck does this late game. I usually let everyone know I'm about to go on a long turn that will likely lead to me drawing into or figuring out a line to win before it's over so they have a chance to just end it there.
Not true.
If they copy a deck, they won't know what's in the deck
To be honest: it happened to me before. I was playing modified strixheaven precon and in the middle of my turn I realized that I can make like 80 mana, draw 20 cards and cast 30 spells. I literally didn't wanted to do that, but people who were playing with asked me to go on with it. My turn lasted like 20 minutes and it wasn't even over, but we all agreed that it's time to finish it and I was declared winner.
@@N4chtigall"modified precon", lol
Sometimes the decks are smarter than the people who’ve built them.
I have a friend who consistently builds decks that do way more than he even imagined they could.
Sometimes when i am the threat i actitivly tell people yeh you should deal with me.
yeah same thats how everyone in my pod is though. we also know each others decks and play styles very well
A great video to make as a partner to this one: Things commander players LOVE. I know I have friends who are just a joy to play with for whatever reason. Just an idea for a positive spin on this video
Love this!
My friend made a deck for his wife that involves a lot of searching her library for equipment, she only plays or even touches magic cards on the once a month that we play. Every search trigger takes her 10 minutes reading every card, it's rough. If I said anything I'd instantly be the bad guy. 😑
That is rough. Maybe he should couch her on witch cards are the top tier cards to search for.
On the topic of respecting other players' time I've had half the pod get up to go smoke the wacky tobaccy in a friend's car in the middle of a game before... they were gone for two hours. Needless to say me and the other player were pissed and not exactly in the mood to play anymore by the time they got back and "Sorry we got super high and forgot" wasn't exactly a good enough excuse.
Ok, regarding who has the most life. I think it's really funny to swing at the guy who played a life land turn 1 and is at 41
This is literally how my pod behaves lmao
Omg I actively stopped playing gain lands in my budget decks because of this 💀
Woah woah woah. Who is pile shuffling after a mulligan? That is only for before that game and that is it.
Yerrrp - I don’t mind if a player pile shuffles once before drawing their first 7 cards, but after that…. Nope.
It's definitely a thing, maybe we need to hammer that out in Rule 0 lol
I only pile shuffle if the cards are ordered by type since it takes so long to mix it up otherwise
People who double sleeve and don't want to bend their cards?
@@EvilerOMEGA ummm… isn’t the reason for double-sleeving, BECAUSE people are afraid to damage the cards? If someone bent my Underground Sea while shuffling or whatever, you’d better believe I would start freaking out.
Wait you said spilling coke on dice once destroyed them? What were they made of? Sugar?
Seriously, unless the carbonation some how ate threw the resin I don't see why you wouldn't be able to just wash them off with soap...
Regarding the "phone distractions", if it takes you 2 minutes or more to decide how to do your turn (or if your turn is 10 minutes of synergy), you can't complain if everyone else starts getting bored enough to get distracted by their phones. Commander takes long enough without you trying to do the absolute most optimal play with a deck you just put together that day. Make the misplays so that there is a next game to do better in.
If you’re a storm player please have the courtesy to bring a coloring book for the other players while you go off
@@yoyoguy1st yeah they really should talk for their own group, especially the knowledge one so arrogant. Our group loves new players and don't mind explaining actions and combos so they know for the future,
OMG I have a pubstomping and mad about being threat story. At an LGS playing with my pod but we were 1 short. Random comes and asks to play. We're like sure, but just so you know, me and my friend are very new to MTG and other buddy is kinda teaching us. He goes I just started recently as well. Cool. Game starts, and dude has like 4 inifinite combos going on turn 3. I'm like cool, this was fun. Then proceeds to get upset next game when all 3 of us target him :D.
Thank you for mentioning inappropriate gears. I have spotted so many disturbing NSFW anime playmats in my LGS, and do not have the confidence to stop this.
That would be up to the LGS to enforce this as an issue, if they care about it at all.
My biggest pet peeve are people who play decks that only have counter spells in them because their commander is based around instants and sorceries. Countering things that have a big impact makes sense, but countering everything is so annoying.
control decks with no wincon are the worst lmao
So Baral, Chief of compliance?
If someone let's you win and then tells you that, they are an asshole.
I’ve been on that side but I realized I miss played a combo and lost 😂
Most easy awnser....people who put thier land in front......god I hate those people.
This. And putting your deck up front too. I started with Yugioh as a kid, and the way I lay out my board is similar to how you do it in that game (before pendulums). Deck down to the right, graveyard to the right of that, exile above graveyard, artifacts and enchantments above deck, lands to the left of the deck, and creatures above the lands.
@@kenniron6313 I used to lay out my board like that, but I usually sit to the left of my girlfriend who puts her library forward left and she knocked my deck over more than once while reaching to draw. So now I put my deck as far forward as I can comfortably reach on a second playmat in the middle of the table
@@kenniron6313 Is deck up front an issue? Everyone at my LGS plays with their deck pretty high up on a corner of their mat, usually just under their commander. Lands up front is whack but I thought that wasn't legal anymore?
Sorry, been playing since 93. Lands in front!! 😅
@@bradross7488 and you havent given in to everyone complaining about it yet? I dont think I could make people unhappy for like 30 years.
My groups rule on takesie backsies is the same as spider mans: everybody gets 1. We're more lenient with new players, especially if the take back involves some weird or unnusual interaction. we also use the rule of thumb of if there's new information or not, and if the new information would impact the take back. It makes using your take back a real decision, and adds a layer of "oh no!" When a player tries to use their take back and the table reminds them they already used it to play their land on someone elses upkeep
Regarding the hypothetical "I'm being attacked for 100 lifelink so I scoop out of spite" example- how would you feel if that person used in-game actions to kill themselves out of spite, rather than scooping? Say the player getting attacked is at less than 3 life and they bolt themself.
I think that's entirely fine since they used game pieces. They had the bolt, they had the mana. Might still feel spiteful, but it has less "taking my ball and going home" energy.
i’ve only recently started playing Commander, but honestly, I would find that move Hilarious. Even if I stand to benefit from attacking you.
It definitely depends, I usually ask because sometimes people find paying all your life to a toxic deluge hilarious and other times they get mad that you’re ‘king making’ when you pay your last life points to your necropotence. 🤷♂️
@@scorp9171 Yes but paying all your life to TD is sorcery speed and not something you're doing in response to someone benefitting from attacking you. The Necropotence one is though, and I think it's a valid decision.
@@SweetOddBoi That’s kinda my perspective too but based on the variety of responses I’ve gotten I’ve learned to just ask rather than be the reason everyone had a bad night. Ya know what I mean?
"You're really not going to incur any negative favor from two damage."
Bull. I once dealt 3 damage to a player across the first 3 turns and then two turns later he swung 9 10/10s at me.
One thing I see called 'kingmaking' that I disagree with is making the person killing you pay to the maximum to do so.
'Why are you kingmaking by wasting my resources?'
'Because you're trying to kill me? That has costs.'
I see that as the exact opposite. If you don't make killing you cost the maximum, I would consider that king-making (or at least heavily helping the person that just killed you)
Personally once I'm clearly about to die I like to avoid taking actions because I want to see how the game is gonna play out - even if I could take someone down with me out of spite. I can see the scenario though where I would tell someone "if you try to take me out I'm going to take you down with me" and then you have to follow through.
@@japplek I get what you are saying, but I think that if you don't at least make intelligent blocks, you are helping the player that is killing you massively. I don't think its fair to anyone else left in the game to leave your killer with a board bigger than they deserve.
You know, explaining how badly you’ll tax someone for them to take you out might lead to them taking another action and changing the course of the game… Assuming the player wants to win and not simply beat you, they may take another course. I see that as legitimate in commander
@@jonathanpuccetti9258 this is so dumb
Our group does as many free mulligans until you get "a hand you like" and it's really just up to you. When it gets to like 4 that's egregious and someone will say "ok this is it no matter what". Only time I'll pile shuffle is when I start a SESSION or I get back to back hands of 5 lands/ no lands/ 5 lands/ no lands. We also play super honest so its not like someone is going for a god hand every time, but if we pile shuffled after each muligan someone is catching these hands (in game of course)
I don't like the Scooping at Sorcery Speed mantra. I agree with not spite scooping but I feel like scooping anytime the stack is empty or a turn is ending is appropriate.
Basically if someone puts 5 extra turns on the stack, I think scooping at the end of the first turn is appropriate.
It isn't takesy backsy if you notice someone didn't put an artifact in their graveyard. That is them cheating and you catching them or everyone not noticing and you rectifying the situation.
If your turn(s) is taking more then 10 minutes and you are struggling to assemble a win con, then I'm scooping despite it not being sorcery speed.
Kingmaking is in my opinion not that simple. I would say there is a social aspect to it. In the end commander isn't competetive game, people play to have fun and sometimes having fun means you don't play super optimally and consider everything on the table. Sometimes kingmaking is just "you ruined my chances of winning, therefore I'll make you lose before I lose myself" in the lategame and I think it's completely fine. Commander is social game, you dont' get a trophy for winning so as long as you have fun and you aren't an asshole it's fine in my book.
Something to add to your list; locking people out of the game. The pod had 2 mono-black decks, a Selesnya enchantress deck, and a mono-blue artifact deck. The commanders were Horobi, old Tinybones, Sythis, and Leonardo da Vinci. The Selesnya player decides to play Choke on their turn three because the mono-blue player cast Pongify on the creature attacking them. They were locked out for 3-5 turns and the game ended 2 turns after Choke left the battlefield.
Whenever I notify a friend of a free attack they direct it at me.
That’s seems to always be the case, at least in my experience.
See I know for sure a lot of the players at my tables are annoyed by removal, and I'm certain there are several who are annoyed by a 4 mana 3/3 named Krenko Mob Boss who can be tapped to create a 1/1 goblin creature token for every goblin you control.
I'm not sure they're annoyed by the removal itself. They just might be annoyed that their 4 mana 3/3 mono-red commander costs 20 mana because they are the only ones getting removed. At that point, it's a game of archenemy with no extra life or scheme cards for the archenemy
@@EvilerOMEGA then you should not play Krenko.
@@bobdebando I didn't know you were the only one allowed to enjoy the game.
I’ll say that the Krenko player should understand though that by having him in the command zone he is sort of asking to be archenemy from the get go. Just like some of my decks that have a reputation people are aware and play against it accordingly. I just try my best to play around the hate and have fun
@@EvilerOMEGA well if thats what you made of my comment. if someone plays krenko its kinda a main target for everyone at the table, and if ppl complain about it being removed fast then they should not play commanders like Krenko. But if you do you should not be salty everytime its gets targeted or removed.
Holding the win. I can see where people say there power levels and they are off. The higher power player. Decides the pump the breaks. To actually have a game.
When it comes to holding back the win, I often do it with my spellslinger deck, because it goes infinite in so many ways, and my pod wouldn't want me to play with it anymore.
If it's late in the game though, and I haven't found a non-inf wincon, I will just pop off and end the game.
We have a Rule 0 against tutor for infinite combos, especially 2 card combos, but late game the pod are usually happy for the game to be over and start a new one, maybe with a different deck they really want to try out.
If you play with friends and you complain about pile shuffling or even consider them to cheat that way you need to chill 😂
@@julianstrnad222 if you play with people you know, yes, totaly. My general attitude with casual commander is anyway "takes as much mulligans as you want. I want to play against players who can play the game. I trust you are not searching the perfect hand". In any other setting like strangers or tournaments id be very careful
I have killed myself by tapping a fetch land when somebody attacked me so they didn’t get their attack triggers. It was definitely a spite play, but I also didn’t scoop. I used a game action that was available to me to take myself out of the game.
And that is perfectly respectable.
Just a note, they do still get attack triggers if you do it after they have declared attacks, but they still won't get damage triggers.
I definitely don't mind that.
@@seandun7083 that’s what it was. I stopped him from drawing cards off of dealing damage lol my bad
16:11 What if you said “Modified Precon” when you mean that your deck has payoffs for MODIFIED creatures? 😂
“I’m playing Chishiro modified precon”
-last words
I would argue your deck should be named better🤣
I always pile shuffle in the beginning after a game, because my lands are all stuck together from last game. Im pretty quick at it tho.
Shout out to the pub stomper at my store who made me so mad i went on a 45 min rant in the mtg group chat
'I swing at you with lethal boardstate.'
'I block with all my 1/1's. All your creatures will die because of that enchantment i clearly spoke about 2 turns ago giving all my first-striking creatures deathtouch.'
'Oh i wouldnt have attacked you if i had remembered that. Can i take that back?
'No, that is the whole point of me having these cards in the deck. If i let you take it back it defeats the purpose of me casting them in the first place.'
'😢'
I kind of disagree with your point about the Ashiok example. Your card is still certainly functioning, it's forcing your opponents to make different plays due to its restrictive ability. I personally don't think that the card's power comes from "my opponent wastes mana and spells sometimes because they forget this effect is on the table."
Yeah. That's the difference between Ashiok and Shadow of Doubt.
I once sat down at a table at my LGS an a guy declared his deck an "upgraded precon" then proceed to play mostly $40+ staples/powerful cards like rhystic study, sheoldread the apocalypse, orcish boowmasters, and the one ring. Then had the audacity to be upset when called out for calling that an "upgraded precon".
like I know technically it was "upgraded" but when we were discussing power level he 100% made it sound like 5-10 on theme cards to tighten up the deck not high power edh deck wearing a precon as a mask.
I think when it comes to take backs a big problem is the amount of information can be overwhelming and it’s hard to keep track even on arena with all the emblems and reminders misplays can occur. I really believe keyword markers could help games go smoother when I can see from across the table “that creature has a heart and a skull so it has lifelink and death tough”
Be okay with not playing perfect and making mistakes. You will always remember you butchering a combo or sequence in your deck over taking back and "Oopsie". I tell my playgroup to focus on playing the game more quickly and learning, over perfect and slower.
We get like 4 games in a night when before it was 2 long drawn out games that got boring.
Takesy-backsies, in my pod are usually the kind of "ok, I have 9 mana, I want to cast these two spells", but you realize that you tapped the wrong lands for the first spell, and don't have the right color mana for the second. It's no biggie, unlimited takes backs on that, it's noticed and fixed in seconds. However if it happens every turn it gets annoying, but it usually only happens when a player is trying out a new brew or something, and even then, they learn fast.
To your example, max 1. Many newer players, myself included, aren't familiar with that card, so a friendly reminder is ok. But not more.
For me it’s when people are being petty and also when people counter everything anyone does and they don’t even win like bro please if you’re gonna stop everything then please win
RE: Missing Free Attacks, "free" attacks aren't always free and/or isn't "missing" the attack. You could be anticipating a hasty creature (Aftermath Samut, OG Urabrask, etc commander), or not want to make yourself an enemy early. You are making an assumption on the part of the other player when you aren't in their head, which isn't really great. It's the same as assuming what a deck does based on the commander. You can make an educated guess on what a deck does, but you don't know for sure, and assumptions can hinder more than help.
I definitely see what you’re saying about attacking the person with the most life. It can be frustrating when there’s clearly a threat. However, I notice that it happens a lot earlier in the game because it’s an easy justification to attack someone without singling them out as the threat otherwise. It can be a way to keep neutral while still progressing the game by attacking.
Agreed- I think in different contexts this can be appropriate. It could be part of your strategy to try and seem neutral maybe? There might not always be a “right” player to attack so you pick an opponent for a seemingly arbitrary reason, which might not garner too much attention . But sometimes it’s VERY clear who should be attacked haha
Speaking of pubstomping, I once played a casual FNM at my LGS. My first game I was I a four person POD with two guys who pulled out-of-the-box precons out. My deck was not CEDH but it was quite stronger so I decided not to take advantage of a special partner mechanic.
The fourth guy pulled out a 10-15k sliver deck. Killed me to poison. Also insisted to look at every single card I played, read it for five minutes, and question if I was playing my commander costly every single time.
Next round I played 3 more precons. I pulled out my barely upgraded Shallai Hallar Precon we had a great time.
Rule 0:
- Read your card on cast.
- If it’s discussed that people don’t want staxs or two card combo, then don’t play those decks.
- if your first main phase is taking longer than 5 minutes. Spend more time with rule one and goldfish.
I hate when people try politicking their way out of overextending. Swinging out a being tapped out whining to be left alone. Like incessantly whining.
Also just straight up lying. Saying youre going to do something and then do the opposite. "Im going to give you so many vampires with that card you just played" then kills that card the next turn and reanimates it for themself. Like cool, ya got me bud.
I'm sure you'd agree, but it's very common in this community for people to have social anxiety.
So yes, it's nice if someone talks you through their cards and play, but also keep in mind some people might have a hard time doing it.
I've played with a few people that were about silent game 1 - 3 or better, then night 2 or 3, they're talking like they're your best friend from pre k.
At the same time, I've played with people who have social disabilities and often don't talk much or at all. That might not change but can still make for a great pod member.
Yes always let it go back to hand in the ashiok situation, always. Its known information, nobody is going to try to search their library in any way knowing that they cant. If they do, they forgot and you tell them and they take it back to hand. Every time. (unless they want to counter their own spell or get a spell/land in the grave or something)
I don’t really agree with “free attacks” either. I would prefer to block a dashed ragavan than mark 1 damage
I think my biggest issue here is pile shuffling. i guess i roll with way more casual folks that yall but one pile shuffle before cuts isnt a big deal. it really doesnt take that long. it really does great at breaking up the lands if you get screwed on lands one game.
Yea i mean sometimes im playing a landfall and a few shuffles wont break up 34 lands back to back very well and only realize my mistake after drawing 7 lands and then top 3 being lands when i go to mulligan lol
There's no issue with pile shuffling unless it's in the middle of the game? why are they doing it? Otherwise there's no reason to be mad over it
Another caveat for Takesies Backsies is if there are any prizes involved. In normal games yes, but in prize games I am a lot less forgiving.
@@harrisonwilloughby712 My caveat for this caveat is, “Unless the person introducing new information to the situation hasn’t done, or even allowed time for the player they’re responding to to clarify the nature of the changed boardstate.
Last night, I had a guy Flash in a Tishana’s Tidebinder in response to my playing a 5/5 Walking Ballista w/ a Branching Evolution and my commander, Vorinclex, Monstrous Raider out.
While I’m trying to prove to him with a documented ruling via my phone that his attempt to cause my Walking Ballista to lose all abilities before 2 stacked replacement effects take the place of the “base” 5 +1/+1 counters I paid 10 mana for to become 20 +1/+1 counters I can remove at instant speed w/ 20 effects put on the stack in response to his Tidebinder, he and the other opponent are trying to insist we’re past that point.
A phase doesn’t end because one person is mentally past the point where everyone else is still in dispute/trying to get onto the same page about what happened in the step under contention.
If someone jumps the gun and starts doing stuff because they’ve decided they believe they know how it’s all going to go, I’ll push through a roll-back even if I have to be a bit of a sick about it.
Once people normalize jumping ahead of the rest of the table, nothing but conflict is sure to follow.
I totally agree about complaining when you are the threat. I am often the threat at the table. Either I’ve put out a fast board state that demands to be answered or I’m known to carefully sculpt my board state and hand to just win on one turn with certain decks. So my play groups rightfully target me. The funny thing is that they apologize for it sometimes. I’m like, “no, you did the right thing. I was the threat. Make me use my counters, destroy my stuff, attack me. Do it.” With that said, I do get improperly targeted because of what I might do sometimes. In those cases I wait until after the game and politely point out that so and so won too easily because of all the focus put on me.
one of my biggest pet peeves is when people expect others to cater to them and complain no matter what i do. if i go for the win (which is the point of the GAME, to win it), they’ll whine that my deck is “too strong” (in actuality they just have bad threat assessment + don’t play enough interaction and/or removal).
on the other end of the spectrum, if i have the win in hand and DON’T cast it, the accusation is “yOuRe dRaWiNg oUt tHe gAmE” (in actuality there is someone else who has open blue mana + multiple cards in hand and plays counterspells, so i’m waiting for a better opportunity to try to secure the win as much as possible).
i, as your opponent, am not responsible for how (in)efficient your deck is. on principle i’m not going to kneecap my own strategy just because you can’t answer an infinite combo or lethal damage. your skill issue is not my problem to solve.
the worst one for me is bad threat assessment. if i have a bunch of creatures and a Gaea’s Cradle out, but no cards in hand (and no way to win on my turn), targeting me because you’re butthurt about an earlier turn - instead of going after the combo player about to storm off and machine gun the table - is not only bad threat assessment, it’s what i would consider a spite play.
a third one: taking games personally. talking smack during a game is one thing, teasing each other is perfectly fine (and fun with an established playgroup); but getting angry that i attacked you for 1 with an Elvish Mystic and yelling for an entire minute is not only extremely awkward + unnecessary, it’s annoying.
learn to take Ls in stride, folks. i do it plenty of the time. a good 75% of my time in pods is spent being the Archenemy 😂 so i have lots of practice lmao.
I ALWAYS pay someone back if they fuck with my board early, and I'm a big fan of "proportional response". Hit me for 1? Hold 4. Blow up my card draw engine? Hold 8. But like, once they get theirs, were even
I love this token take at the end. I could paragraph into the subject of people without tokens and how it effects everyone.
I big taksie backsie issue nowadays is ward. Normally it's like "do you pay ward X?" "No can i take that back?" Over and over again. Kind of the same Mindset with ashiok the table gets 1 then the spell gets countered
So has the one-time rule been working? Or do people get mad?
Disagree about attacking players with the most life. Part of commander is the social and diplomacy aspects. Play the board, often times, and early enough, usually most life = the most info on board.
The game I played this weekend a player played all non elf creatures get -3/-3 and they only did it to kill my one creature with basilisk collar on it and it didn't kill anything else. 😅
I pile shuffle only in one of two scenarios:
- A game has just ended, and I don't want my cards to be clumped by type like they were on my board
- I've just finished adjusting the deck and it's currently sorted by type
Aka I only do it if part or all of my deck is currently sorted
Pile shuffling mathematically does not increase or decrease the randomization of your deck- your cards are just as clumped together post pile shuffle
Just mash shuffle more, that actually does randomize your deck
@@drmajalis1583no it’s not as you can separate you lands by pile, your comment is just plain incorrect
I don’t remember the exact number, but once you do between 7 and 11 mash shuffles your deck is perfectly random whether it was organized before or not
@@NitpickingNerds Hmm, interesting. Part of why I don't mash shuffle that many times is because I'm not very fast, so I feel like I'm wasting people's time. I suppose with practice, even 10 mash shuffles would be faster than the pile + 2 mashes I do currently.
For ashiok, takesies backsies all day. It's easy to forget when board states are complex and there are a lot of things modifying how it all works. People are already salty about a stax effect like that, why make it worse for them.
I had an opposition agent on the field for 2 rounds of the table, then someone cast a rampant growth type effect. I was like "opposition agent" and they just scooped and walked off in a huff. Our rule zero was just about power level, and no one brought up concerns about stax or combos. That deck has like 3 effects that make opponents games harder, but does not deny them mana. Should I have mentioned that I have a few things that try to make life harder for opponnents?
On the topic of open containers...I've literally seen someone flip a coin and it landed in their drink.
This is honestly the best placed Moxfield ad I think you've ever done. Bravo
Yeah that was smooth and criminal 😎
Forget the most life! I attack the one with either the most cards in hand or the one with the most permanents on the battlefield
I swear ya'll are talking about my LGS.
For real though, why do so many people cast a spell and just say the name then move on like everyone knows exactly what it does!?
Pub stomping is my favorite thing to discuss, we had a player who never understood why no one wanted to casually play with because homie had infinite loops and one shot tricks in his Edgar markov deck and said it's not that good. He had easily put a big amount of money and thought into it
For takesies backsies, it's usually only once for a certain mistake. If you make the same mistake several times, then you dont get it back.
If you don't like that a player can concede at instant speed, get mad at Wizards of the Coast for allowing it in the rules. If it's a legal game action, it's a legal game action.
Playing Ashiok with the intention of catching players who are struggling to keep four-people's-worth of permanents and their effects straight at all times, strikes me as a distinctly UNFRIENDLY way of playing Magic. Outside of competitive settings I'm not sure where you can get away with playing like this for very long without killing the vibes. You are also going to need to play perfectly because now you're being held to the same standard. 🤮
18:00 I agree that "modified precon" is a blanket term. If you've changed out one card or all the way up to 20 cards (including landbase) it falls under modified. If you've replaced more than that you've rebuilt the deck and can no longer call it a precon in any way.
My priority in playing the game is not winning but rather testing my deck (cause i always tinker) to see how it feels in an actual game. Sure i'd like to win but its secondary.
Same, I am like a scientist: I just want fun interesting games and afterwards I spend the week tinkering for the next FNM. LOL my catch phrase at my LGS is: I came, I saw, I durdled :D
@@mr.mammuthusafricanavus8299 i play mostly token or trial decks so durdling isn´t exactly what i tend to do. Usually i get at least 1 guy dead, if ust to prove a point
So you play the game to see how playing an acual game feels?
@@The_Dying_Rose To see how his deck feels.
@@Cybertech134 then what is the point of playing in the first place? If you only ever play to get a feel of how the deck plays then what are you really doing that for? Why do you care how it plays if the end goal isn't to do its function and win?
In my combo decks, I never take free attacks. I don't want people to be worried about what I am doing, and if the game ends to people running out of life, 99% chance I did not win. If you are playing normal midrange value packed decks, free attacks are free value. But my combo doesn't care if they have 30 like or 3, or 300. Free attacks are helping other people more than me if I am playing combo.
Plus, when people see their life total ticking down, they get concerned and want to do something to stop you from doing that. I don't want to draw attention sometimes.
Also, there are haste creatures out there, better watch out! It might not be as free as you thought.
I definitely mix my mana rocks with my land...sorry.
Question for the people. Does Craterhoof count as a combo? Like, if someone asks if I have combos, do I tell them I have Craterhoof? If so, at what point does an overrun not count as a combo?
It can be a high-salt card but it’s definitely not a combo card. Generally people are asking if you have any combos that go infinite or instantly win the game (food chain combo, thassas oracle, iso-rev, hullbreaker combos, infinite combat steps, infinite tokens, etc). There’s no need for craterhoof if you make infinite dual caster mages or splinter twins, for example. But people still complain about craterhoof so it’s not a bad idea to mention that it’s your finisher if you are concerned about matching power levels
I find that sometimes people get so engrossed in conversations (which is a good thing) that no matter how loudly or how many times I try to announce what am doing or playing they just don't hear/listen and its at that point I do stop trying to talk over them in order to save on having a sore throat later. They usually start paying attention at the I'm attacking you part.
End point, yes playing your cards without talking is bad but likewise if people aren't listening after a number of attempts to inform them then what will be will be, thankfully it doesn't happen to often.
Holding back the win is a major pet peeve of mine, my brother does this all the time, he will set up some annoying lock to stop you from playing the game, very CLEARLY be able to just win and he just doesn’t…. Then at the end of the game he will brag that he could have won 5-6 turns ago and everyone else groans because we already knew that
i play a very aggressive Caesar, legion's emperor deck. it's all about burn, doubling up on Caesar's triggers, and getting 1/1's through for damage. there's one person in my play group that complains every time i bring it out, and every time he loses to it, or to a couple certain card, he'll non-stop hate on the deck and target me out of saltiness for the rest of the night. I've only played the deck 3 times in the last 5 months. I think that's definitely the most annoying thing I've had to deal with over my couple years of playing.
Here are mine:
1- Drinks on the table ( I’ve seen awful things )
2- Rudeness ( especially like y’all said if someone is winning the game and they or something of their gets targeted. There is no need for name calling ( Olivia Golbert Hicks is bad to do this )
3- Real life political talk at the table ( There’s just no place for it and it typically leads back to #2 lol )
Totally!
I pile shuffle on my own time when I'm working on my decks and I organize everything by mana value and lands or whatever other metric to make cuts/replacements. I then put those all into a pile and pile shuffle a few times to try and distribute the heavily organized cards into a more chaotic form, and then go back to mash shuffling before putting the deck away until my next play session.
Still, I agree never pile shuffle when sitting down for a game, you should have broken down any sort of organization before bringing the deck out.
Kingmaking is part of the game. Play a season (Of multiple games) where points matter like in NASCAR, and you'll understand and enjoy it more.
Except that there are no points that matter in commander. Huge difference.
I would add on to blood feud when players go after you because you won the last game despite playing a completely different deck and there are far more threatening board states on the table. I avoid playing with people who seem too emotional or take the game too seriously, since it takes away the fun for me.
Fortunately, I scooped early into the second game when I realized this and found an awesome pod to play with for the rest of the day.
Concerning upgraded precons, my thought is if you've removed more than 50% of the precon-exclusive cards, then it's advanced to a new deck. Strictly better upgrades, and mana base upgrades, are just that: upgrades. Every other card in the deck is a reprint, so those card could have been anything with the deck's theme.
My unintentional Pubstomping story: I like Gargoyles. When I’m traveling I photograph them on buildings. I have several on my bookcases and in my yard, so over the years I’ve collected all the Gargoyles I’ve come across in Magic and put them in the back of one my binders. Last month I finally decided to make a tribal deck out of them, and let’s be honest here, Gargoyles are not a strong synergistic type, but I was very happy to have built the deck. At my lgs for FNM and after the main event game my group decided to have fun low-power game and I pulled out my Gargoyles and explained what it was. Well, I ended up with a bunch of flyers on board that nobody had answers for and just picked everyone off fairly quickly and people seemed disappointed. I was as surprised as everyone else how well it did but I’m pretty sure they felt pub stomped. (On a side note I want to mention a pet peeve for people that have holdover resentment for the previous game and attack someone because of something that happened in the last game. Do you feel it’s justified to attack a player just because they won the last game?)
Attacking me because I won the last game is the fastest way to be my archenemy for the rest of the night/month.
Mia's "liars" always makes me laugh because I'm picturing someone hearing that for the first time with no context. 😂
I need to get better about playing to win. Honestly, it can be easy to start 'sandbagging' when people complain so much about 'deck doing the thing' 😑
Yeah that could be partially on your opponents, we're all playing to "do the thing"
One of my "house rules" is that you can only scoop at sorcery speed.😂
I like to pile shuffle when I build a new deck because the mana will be clumped together due to the manner in which I build my deck.
Once you mash shuffle enough times, the deck will be random no matter how clumped it was
Excuse you! My honorable Wilson, King of the Bears, must attack the player with the most life. He is honor bound to his Agent of Shadow Thieves to do so.
Joke aside I do hate that logic. It often just lets stronger fields stay online longer and just chips off enough that sometimes lets that way more dangerous deck kill off your allies who might have been able to stop them.
Might be related to complaining about being the threat, but my biggest annoyance is people who constantly downplay their own threat level, especially when playing decks the whole table is familiar with and know are high power.
Have a friend who does this CONSTANTLY; he plays decks like Xenagos, God of Revals, with multiple ways to trigger extra combat steps and can steamroll the whole table very early in the game, and we all know how quickly the deck can go off, but he never owns up to it. Gets insanely annoying every time.
Also, on the Blood Feud thing, have another player (more acquaintance than friend), who recently admitted that he hated one of my decks and would target me specifically whenever I played it. And it wasn’t even a good deck, it was werewolves! The only thing I can think of is I managed to make my own extra combat steps to go off exactly once against him (and literally never again for as long as I had the deck) and he held a grudge ever since.
I am that Xenagos player! 😂 Well, almost, I only have one infinite attack combo.
But the deck is full of ramp and big creatures with trample and/or flying. It has almost no interaction, and you can see what is coming long before it happens.
If I play out Xenagos and will have 8 mana on my next turn, someone is going to take a lot of damage if there is no interaction.
While the deck is scary, it is made to be easy to play for beginners, and vs 3 people there is usually enough interaction to keep it not dominating games.
@@acidcrow4051 Honestly, it's not the deck itself I have a problem with (mostly), it's genuinely just his attitude of 'I'm not the problem, I'm just here'. Like, his tone makes it clear he's TRYING to joke about it, but when he does it literally every time he plays the deck, or has put together any other scary board states, the joke isn't funny anymore.
@@SaintAbsol yeah, I know a guy like that, with his Voja deck. "They are only little elfs, just mana dorks really".
Meanwhile there is a maskwood nexus on the table, and you take 26 damage and just curse at how much you hate Ward 3.
Does your werewolves use night/day? Cause id target it for that alone
My biggest pet peeve is a subset of "Holding Back the Win"; and it's when players actively don't run finishers in their decks. Some of my most irritating play experiences have been against decks that take 30-minute "solitaire" turns making a bunch of value plays but at no point make any attempt to actually win the game, often because their decks CAN'T win the game. Respecting other players' time starts during deckbuilding! 🙏
I think playing commander after a couple of years has given me a new appreciation for the "modified precon"
my buddies enjoy playing magic casually without spending too much money on boat loads of cards. right now im trying to upgrade my bloomburrow precon with cards only from the set it came from and without any one card swapped being worth more than 5$.
Open containers is number one!!!! Hands down. I wont even play with most groups who have an open container anywhere near.
SMART
I’ve lost to a food deck because I didn’t see a mana rock mixed in with lands and they were able to sac one more food than I realized. I was seriously disappointed, especially after having soloed the cEDH Korvold player on turn 5 who was trying to pubstomp while the other 2 players just sat back setting up engines. They did a collective 1 damage, he took like 6 from his mana crypt, and I dealt the other 43.
Confused about free attacks. Why tap if next untapped, someone plays a hasty boy and hits you hard (possibly with triggers) because you were the one that hit them?
Scooping as a spell is ok. It's in the rules.
Pile shuffling is based
The Ashiok search example reminds me of a problem I have playing Kira, Great Glass Spinner. It never fells, even when I’ve explained the card, if I have Kira out for more than 2 turns someone tries to path one of my creatures and I say, “ok that tiggers Kira to counter that spell” and that person always wants to take it back. Now every one knows the path to exile is there and you can feel the game shift.