@@goldenhate6649 It had a definition in the early 2000s, now it seems to be "whatever the big bands that were formerly metalcore, are sounding like right now"
When it comes to metalcore, you could split that into different decades and have a "big 4" for each one because of how diverse the sound can be, so it'd be difficult to just do "old school" versus "new school" and call it a day.
@@devinbender8428 where does knocked loose, varials, kublai khan? noughties metalcore revival? where do you put bands like sylar, afterlife, Tallah? nu metalcore? this genre got way too diverse
Can’t believe how bad they messed up the metalcore list. KsE, AILD, BFMV, and ATR would have been my picks. Modern metalcore should have had ABR. They’ve been carrying the whole genre on their backs since 2010.
Eh, it depends. A7X when they were metalcore were waaaaaaayyyy bigger than those. ADTR is playing amphitheaters and arenas. It just depends on what they mean for “modern” and classic. Overall I’d probably have a list close to yours but it’d be KSE, ADTR, A7X and BMTH ABR never really got that big comparatively and no one’s really cared about them since 2012
I think that the Metalcore catagory that Nik picked is the correct one. Modern Metalcore i how ever would put Architects, While She Sleeps, Bleed From Within for sure. A 4th pick is hard, could be Landmvrks, Beartooth, We Came As Romans. The first three picks i find innovating for the Metalcore genre but placing the last one is hard.
@@BananasStrikes idk but in europe bands like heaven shall burn or caliban are a big constant in the metalcore gerne My top metalcore picks would be: August burns red, heaven shall burn, Crystal Lake.. those bands are still deliver some good stuff
I love how Niks eyes always look like hes not slept in like a year . cause he makes us these amazing videos, An Unearth is one of the big 4 Metalcore bands . dont doubt your instincts
@@metalswifty23 they'll include Machine Head - Burn My Eyes and either of Pantera's first 2 non-Glam albums in a "top 10 thrash albums of all tiem" list. Metalsucks? Maybe. Loudwire sucks? Definitely.
Unearth is my favorite band of all time. But the 2000's Big Four of Metalcore is: 1. Killswitch Engage 2. As I Lay Dying 3. Bullet For My Valentine 4. Atreyu It's not the best or 'most true to the genre bands'. It's the most successful and influential.
@@killsedadivd7956 Trivium is close. While they were big in that time, they weren't as big as Atreyu. They blew up more around 2007ish. The real golden age of metalcore was 2004-2006. KSE released classic albums in 2001-2004. Atreyu in 2002-2004 and similar for the other two bands. Trivium's only classic metalcore album wasn't until 2005. Then they changed their sound with each record. They are great but more/different than traditional metalcore.
I do not understand why Shadows Fall is completely overlooked in the metalcore category. Of course, I'm completely confused by this "genre" as so many bands don't sound anything like the others. KSE definitely should be here. Hatebreed should be here too. Guess I'm biased for NE metalcore.
But where the fuck was the melodic death metal? Just excluding a giant subgenre like that?? Fucking bands like Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy, Insomnium, In Flames and Dark Tranquility
I remember I joined the stream and Nik says "Queen is not British" and I was tempted to close it again, lmao. Come on Nik, Brian May not British? He literally has the CBE order "Most Excellent Order of the British Empire" appointed by the Queen. If that's not British then I don't know what is.
"You would never be able to comprehend my music taste because I know the pieces fit" a man I asked what his favorite Tool album after I complemented his cool Tool shirt
Queensryche is like actual old school metal, if anything Tool is closer to prog rock than Queensryche. Also they were one of the bands who basically laid the foundations for later prog metal bands along w Crimson Glory
Yeah Queensryche is metal, it really depends on the album or song but I'd say they're prog metal and more so than Tool. Some of their songs even sound thrashy, like Queen of the Reich, or I guess closer to speed metal.
@@spartansquid5931 I probably phrased that not great, queensryche *is* prog metal while tool shouldn't really be considered prog metal as they're more prog rock. Queensryche is definitely old school heavy metal too, just more progressive than other old school heavy metal bands at the time.
@@NikNocturnalTwitchClips hey phrost i got banned from the discord server cuz my account was hacked and it send server links in the chat could u let me join it again (im dead the guy who asked about the focusrite scarlet setup for hours)
@@ippos_khloros6163 i mean yeah but also not really. mathcore is way heavier than standard metalcore and has a lot of genre fusion which isnt as common in metalcore. so yeah mathcore is under the umbrella of metalcore, but bands like killswitch and august burns red sound nothing like dillinger, botch, ed gein etc.
Subgenres are kinda bullshit unless you are having a conversation about subgenres. And bands change their sound all the time, I didn't even know about the terms "metalcore, deathcore, mathcore, djent, cLoWN cOR3" until like 5 years ago, but I've been a Morbid Angel/CoF/Brutal Truth fan for over 20 years. There are certain subgenres which are kinda unmistakable like proper original black metal (Immortal, Emperor), death metal like Cannibal Corpse and Morbid Angel. Grindcore etc. When I first heard some of the newer deathcore bands they sounded like grindcore to me, just with cleaner/heavier production and some more tonal elements.
Metal is one of the most diverse music genres, and my most favorite type of music. It all started with Deftones Around the Fur album, then the next thing I knew, I was listening to Limp Bizkit's first album the week it released, then Linkin Park, then Soilwork and In Flames etc. Ever since then, I've listened to everything to do with Metal. If it has the "rawr" in it, then I'm in love! My entire Pandora app is fill with every subgenre of Metal. The most recent addition I added was Pop-Metal, like Poppy and Siiickbrain etc. It's freaking weird and I love it!
If it's any consolation, I would have been off on the Modern and regular Metalcore lists too. No consistency at all. Also... Did Nik REALLY not know Queen was British? 😂😂
Boomer metal: Heavy metal Black metal Death metal Power metal Thrash metal Zoomer metal: Metalcore Djent Djentcore Deathcore Nu metal I will not be answering any questions at this time
With the metalcore list (not the “modern” metalcore list), I was actually thinking to myself “watch them mix the 90s and 2000s after Nik said they wouldn’t. Already happens in the first two bands with killswitch and converge. Lol F’ing awesome.
Norma Jean started in the early 2000’s lol Also Converge deserves to count under your “2000’s metalcore” list because Jane Doe didn’t come out until 2001, which really put them on the map
I'm so stoked you said the words "Black Dahlia is fucking amazing". That felt vindicating for some reason. It feels like no one ever mentions them, and they're far and away my favorite band, so thank you!
Black Dahlia is one of those bands where even if their names aren’t mentioned? They’re on everyone’s list. Like Breaking Benjamin, we love them no matter what.
dude Queensryche over Tool was a crime against nature for the Prog big 4. Mostly I think the vast majority of those lists were created by either casual fans or by fans of other genres who approached them as outsiders. You just know too much Metalcore and got in your own head lol. Sometimes simpler is better though I do agree that some of their band classifications were weird. Should have just done a singular Metalcore list and been done with it... that whole old and new was just confusing lol.
Queensryche over Tool makes sense if you look at the bands they mentioned as having a prog sound instead of prog song structures. Tool sounds like Tool. They're practically a one-band genre to the point that they'd be the first band any band would be compared to if they used certain combinations of sounds and time signatures.
Queensryche is one of the ogs that made prog metal a thing. Really, if you are going to take about big 4 of prog in the same sense as thrash, its going to be Queensryche, Fates Warning, Dream Theater and uh I guess we can have Tool now.
@@slyder35 in all fairness, if you were to list the top 5 british bands of all time, I bet Queen, oasis and the beatles would be there. And of all the British bands Queen has to be #1. There's no way queen could be anything else
For NWOAHM I'd put: Chimera Machine Head Killswitch Engage Hatebreed For Nu Metal: Disturbed Slipknot Linkin Park Coal Chamber For Death Metal: Deicide Cannibal Corpse Morbid Angel Children Of Bodom (melodic Death Metal, obviously) Deathcore: Suicide Silence Carnifex Thy Art Is Murder Job For A Cowboy Chelsea Grin Metalcore Trivium KSE (again) Bullet For My Valentine All That Remains Grindcore: Napalm Death Carcass Terrorrizer Pig Destroyer Prog: Opeth Periphery BTBAM Animals As Leaders Thrash: Megadeth Exodus Metallica (sorry, not sorry 😎👑) Havok (Thrash Revival, of course) Black Metal: Venom Darkthrone Mayhem Burzum NWOBHM: Iron Maiden Motörhead Grim Reaper Diamond Head Proto Metal Beatles (Helter Skelter is an absolute jam!) Cream Blue Cheer The Jimi Hendrix Experience Heavy Metal/Hard Rock Black Sabbath Judas Priest Stephenwolf Lucifers Friend (if you don't know who these are, check out their track 'Ride The Sky' If I could only pick 4 favourite bands: Trivium Iron Maiden Megadeth Bullet For My Valentine
Completely hypothetical(also just poking fun) I like the new direction but: Maybe bands like pwd, bmth, hundredth, architects,etc. had this same conversation/epiphany/confusion/whatever you want to call it like nik did @or around the 15:12 mark, and that what made them change from metalcore.🤣🤣
The reason Tool wasn't on there is because the overlap between Tool fans and prog fans isn't really that big. Most Tool fans don't listen to other prog, because they found Tool through radio play. And a lot of prog fans think of Tool as prog lite. Queensryche is prog-metal, because they were considered metal when they came out.
Slight correction, Queensryche is considered metal because they just... play metal. The line for what is and isn't metal doesn't really move, a band playing the exact same music as Queensryche coming out today would still be metal.
@@jordanwolfe739 Even melodeath not being there, In Flames are never getting ahead of Death, Morbid Angel, Possessed, Obituary, Deicide, Atheist, Immolation etc. But, this is Loudwire after all so anything goes.
Kind of surprised they didn't put Dimmu Borgir in the black metal section. I know they weren't founders or anything but they became pretty huge in the black metal scene. Perhaps they should've added a symphonic black metal section or something.
I called it as soon as the metalcore section came up that Dillinger would be on there. How? Go to 10:49 where the article itself calls Dillinger a metalcore band, and furthermore “the DNA of 2000’s metalcore.”
I think Nik being such a metalcore scene kid is exactly what brought him down in the metalcore section. He knows too much about the genre, its history and artists. He listed bands that outsiders would not recognize at all, even if those bands were instrumental to metalcore. Plus I wasn't even surprised to see Converge and Killswitch in the same place, but Nik sees the difference.
Kinda hard to nail these when 'Modern' list has bands that are old as fuck, and the normal section has one band that aren't even Metalcore to begin with lol
Black Dahila Murder as the fourth of the big four is absolutely ridiculous. It's as it has always been Death, Morbid Angel, Cannibal Corpse, and Deicide😂😂😂 Loudwire should be ashamed of themselves putting Black Dahila Murder there. No disrespect to Black Dahila Murder, though👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
3:23 Alright, maybe I'm dumb or something, but I kind of thought Queensryche would be there. Am I just dumb? I thought they were one of the first big prog metal bands. Is it just that they're not heavy enough or something? I thought they were, but then I thought Deep Purple were metal too, and I've been chewed out enough about that.
Revisionist history, just because they don't sound like the modern prog stuff doesn't mean they weren't in their time. Also Purple was a huge influence on many later sub genres so if they don't count they're at least pretty damn close to metal.
How do you guys know soo many bands. I got into metal (mostly metalcore and post hardcore) and i knew maybe half of the bands. I can't imagine ever having that much knowledge about metal. 😂
I had a similar experience you had with Metalcore, with Gothic Metal... My big four in that genre would have been Type o Negative, Paradise Lost (Hell, they invented the genre), Tiamat and The Gathering or Fields of the Nephilim. They only included Type o Negative, while non of the other bands they listed I would even consider as Gothic Metal. HIM I could accept, but Lacuna Coil are Alternative Metal with only a hint of Gothic Metal in their early works and Cradle of Filth are Symphonic (Black/Dark).
They put Paradise Lost further down the line in Doom Metal... hmmm I believe their place there would have been better given to a band like Swallow the Sun and Paradise Lost would have been better placed in Gothic Metal, but okay... thats kinda fair.
I would have thought Draconian would have made the goth metal list because of how widely popular that band is. And yes, TECHNICALLY it's gothic doom not gothic metal.... but same difference
Sorry, but I personally find it hilarious how people are surprised about the metalcore picks. Consistency and debating about classic/modern bands in the genre - fine. But if one considers metalcore as a whole, it seems absolutely clear to me that only three names have to be on there without discussion: Bring Me The Horizon, Parkway Drive and Architects. With all due respect to the metalcore bands that paved the way for those three bands: the article was talking about "biggest". And no matter which metric one looks at (album sales, streams, awards, festival gigs, arena tours, critical acclaim...) there is no one above those three bands in the genre of metalcore (defined loosely), at least not currently.
Do people just forget that BMTH's There is A Hell exists? Like BMTH was metalcore from suicide season to sempiternal but there was an album between those two. Lmao
How can they be so accurate at the first genres and fail so hard on the last, its rediculous🤣 must have been different authors, some failed their job totally..
I just don’t get why Asking Alexandria isn’t on the metalcore lists? Like they played on jimmy kimmel live ffs, they were huge their first 3 albums so I don’t understand and literally were killing it.
I always love to see just how passionate and fairly serious Nik gets with things like this. I wish I had just a fraction of the passion he has for music that I could put into something............. what I could create/accomplish. Gotta love Nik and all of his over the topness. ❤😂 Also, great editing guys. I was able to catch this stream live and still enjoyed the replay.
Brilliant commentary Nik!!! THIS is why I love geeking out on music. Your knowledge just amazes me!!! I know you were doing this for shits and giggles but to tap into your mind like that and take a look at all that metal content…. 😮 I am voting for YOU as the metal spokesperson of our time.
Glad I got to see Job For A Cowboy, Underoath, BMTH, Trivium, and As I Lay Dying, wish I got to see Devil Wears Prada, Asking Alexandria (their good shit), Bullet For My Valentine, Atreyu, Dance Gavin Dance and Miss May I
@@PRC533 like I don’t understand how they could put Underoath as a modern band. They started in 1997 lmao. I can kinda see how PWD would make it but they started in 2003 so that’s not “modern” either.
After the burial wtf bro! They're not ever mentioned when it comes to djent. they're like deathcore band with djenty feel but barely anyone I know listens to them
Metalcore can be split into 4 erras at this point 90s - Converge, Earth Crisis, norma jean, Poison the well. Early 00s - AILD, B4MV, KSE, All that remains. Late 00s - Prada, Parkway, underoath, ABR. 10s - architects, northlane, wage war, erra Not sure about the last one.
Lowdwire usually gets things wrong, but holy shit, that Modern metalcore list was a clusterfuck of totally inaccurate placesments( other then Architects) what it should look like is something like this: Architects Spiritbox Ice Nine Kills Crystal Lake And OG Metalcore should have been: (000s) Killswitch Engage As I lay dying Bullet for my Valentine All that Remains (90s) Converge Earth crisis Hatebreed All out war ( or, disembodied) And Djent and progressive metal should have been more like this: Prog metal. Tool Meshuggah ( they are prog death metal, NOT djent) Dream Theater Queensryche ( yes, they are prog metal) Djent. Animals as leaders After the burial Periphery Tesseract
@@thealgorithmluvsu3788 The only people really know what’s going on is them. Jordan as far as I’m aware hasn’t said anything yet. Josh just seems like he took the opportunity to move up the ladder.
Fun fact for a lot of people that might not know Metalcore is actually not a metal sub genre it's actuality a Punk rock sub genre it came from the Punk scene back in the 90s the original name was called metallic Hardcore And the reason why I don't like a lot of metalcore is because it doesn't sound Punk anymore some of it does but a lot of it doesn't
@@aelrecs015 Nope it's straight up facts but of course metal heads hate the truth Many beloved things in metal culture actually was copied from Punk rock culture mosh Pitt's, blast beats, and breakdowns literally all of that But it's OK you can keep running away from the truth Metal heads hate the truth just like they hate bass 🤣😂
@@siouxsiexymox6594 i listen to both punk and metal. the first fusions of metal and hardcore were more on the punk side, hence it was called metallic hardcore. as time progressed, metal and hardcore punk meshed better and became a solid whole, metalcore.
Nic, this was one of the best reaction videos of the last months. I understand your inconsistency complaint so much! But that's just the result of "creating' artificial categories of metal. It was sooo easy back in the 80s, when there was only a handful of directions we had to know. 🤣
Nik Nocturnal and chat losing it when they see Killswitch, Converge, and Dillinger for metalcore. One dude in the chat guessed the fourth would be Oasis. Doesn’t it kinda make sense though? It said METALCORE, not fucking 1996-2002 or 2003-2008, just METALCORE. I think it makes sense but I was still hoping it would be Converge, Dillinger, PTW, and Norma Jean or maybe Botch
![BLACK BAG - Official Trailer [HD] - Only in Theaters March 14](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Du0Xp8WX_7I/mqdefault.jpg)
*Did you do better than Nik? Comment below!* ⏬
I got Dillinger and Converge lol
You should just get into Doom. There is only one band in the big 4 of Doom. Electric Wizard
Recommend you to watch thunder’s Cave lastest video, small but I see passion in those guys
Their 20 plus careers
WHY NO MELO-DEATH?!?!
Don’t take it too hard Nik, Loudwire is the music equivalent of IGN. Integrity and consistency do not exist in their world.
Money money money money...money
@@Konfide4043 As evident by the number of ads on their website that keeps crashing my browser
Was loud wire ever decent? Ign wasn't terrible a couple decades ago lol
@@DrDipsh1t IGN has been a shit journal site since 2015
@@DrDipsh1t I think when they first started out they were half decent, but then again I may have just been a dumb child who didn’t know any better.
Nick: *tries to guess all the metalcore bands on the list*
Also Nick:"My disappointment is immeasurable and my day is ruined"
Using Loudwire as a reference, is like listening to a blind person how to drive
Also metalcore as a genre is a massive generalization and similar to nu metal and groove metal, didn’t, and still doesn’t have a good definition
You obviously have used a blind person to show you how to type
Can't fucking stand loudwire.
@@goldenhate6649 It had a definition in the early 2000s, now it seems to be "whatever the big bands that were formerly metalcore, are sounding like right now"
Gun them down in the most "hell yeah" way
Nik: **does 10 levels of modern metalcore with Mike from Spiritbox**
also Nik: I don't consider Spiritbox modern metalcore
They are like barebones metalcore/djent. Surprised they didn't show up.
Nik not knowing Queen is British might be the hardest I've laughed in a while.
When it comes to metalcore, you could split that into different decades and have a "big 4" for each one because of how diverse the sound can be, so it'd be difficult to just do "old school" versus "new school" and call it a day.
90s - Converge, Earth Crisis, norma jean, Poison the well.
Early 00s - AILD, B4MV, KSE, All that remains.
Late 00s - Prada, Parkway, underoath, ABR.
10s - architects, northlane, wage war, erra
@@devinbender8428 this.
@@devendasmusic crabcore!
Attack attack, asking Alexandria, of mice and men, woe is me.
@@devinbender8428 norma jean is not 90s
@@devinbender8428 where does knocked loose, varials, kublai khan? noughties metalcore revival? where do you put bands like sylar, afterlife, Tallah? nu metalcore? this genre got way too diverse
Can’t believe how bad they messed up the metalcore list. KsE, AILD, BFMV, and ATR would have been my picks. Modern metalcore should have had ABR. They’ve been carrying the whole genre on their backs since 2010.
Eh, it depends.
A7X when they were metalcore were waaaaaaayyyy bigger than those. ADTR is playing amphitheaters and arenas.
It just depends on what they mean for “modern” and classic.
Overall I’d probably have a list close to yours but it’d be KSE, ADTR, A7X and BMTH
ABR never really got that big comparatively and no one’s really cared about them since 2012
id put trivium in there too, ascendancy is gold
I think that the Metalcore catagory that Nik picked is the correct one. Modern Metalcore i how ever would put Architects, While She Sleeps, Bleed From Within for sure. A 4th pick is hard, could be Landmvrks, Beartooth, We Came As Romans. The first three picks i find innovating for the Metalcore genre but placing the last one is hard.
@@BananasStrikes na not even close
@@BananasStrikes idk but in europe bands like heaven shall burn or caliban are a big constant in the metalcore gerne
My top metalcore picks would be: August burns red, heaven shall burn, Crystal Lake.. those bands are still deliver some good stuff
I love how Niks eyes always look like hes not slept in like a year . cause he makes us these amazing videos, An Unearth is one of the big 4 Metalcore bands . dont doubt your instincts
Pretty sure that's an iron deficiency. Cause im the same way.
I though he use make up everytime he's streaming 😅
@@yodapapu8752 probably that
It's also a tell-tale sign of Chrones Disease
He produced so much metal he's iron deficient now lmao
they definitely dropped the ball on modern metalcore, for sure.
honestly I feel like they completely messed up on this whole post...
It is Loudwire in fairness
@@metalswifty23 they'll include Machine Head - Burn My Eyes and either of Pantera's first 2 non-Glam albums in a "top 10 thrash albums of all tiem" list.
Metalsucks? Maybe. Loudwire sucks? Definitely.
@@metalswifty23 that's true
Underoath on that list and i was like they’re not metalcore anymore
@@lastchancereviews2 parkway isn’t metalcore anymore either.
As I lay dying needs to do a comeback album called “Past Transgressions”.
This made ginger ale come out my nose
I just refuse to listen to them anymore. I simply can't respect a band that would take Lambesis back.
@@mcspaddin I agree…but shaped by fire is a banger album
@@Thedoza LMFAO
Is AILD gone downhill due to lineup changes
Unearth is my favorite band of all time.
But the 2000's Big Four of Metalcore is:
1. Killswitch Engage
2. As I Lay Dying
3. Bullet For My Valentine
4. Atreyu
It's not the best or 'most true to the genre bands'. It's the most successful and influential.
Trivium?
@@killsedadivd7956 Trivium is close. While they were big in that time, they weren't as big as Atreyu. They blew up more around 2007ish. The real golden age of metalcore was 2004-2006. KSE released classic albums in 2001-2004. Atreyu in 2002-2004 and similar for the other two bands. Trivium's only classic metalcore album wasn't until 2005. Then they changed their sound with each record. They are great but more/different than traditional metalcore.
+darkest hour, all that remains
I do not understand why Shadows Fall is completely overlooked in the metalcore category. Of course, I'm completely confused by this "genre" as so many bands don't sound anything like the others. KSE definitely should be here. Hatebreed should be here too. Guess I'm biased for NE metalcore.
It dies today, Still Remains and Haste the day were big tops for me 2
But where the fuck was the melodic death metal? Just excluding a giant subgenre like that?? Fucking bands like Amon Amarth, Arch Enemy, Insomnium, In Flames and Dark Tranquility
Just forget about loudwire, that makes everything much easier
At The Gates?
If they were to do that, then they'd have to do tech death, symphonic black, prog death, slam death, etc.,
Heaven shall burn
Soilwork! The Living infinite is easily one of the best albums if not the best melo death album of all time. Fact. 😎🤘
Nic is TOO core boy to get the rankings right. The list is so generalized and he knows too much
We just whitnessed Nik's soul leaving his body through the course of this Video
Nik: Noone has a better windmill than Cannibal Corpse.
Jason Newstead: *Plugs in bass with malicious intent*
Newsted is badass 👑😎
I was gonna say what about avatar
I remember I joined the stream and Nik says "Queen is not British" and I was tempted to close it again, lmao. Come on Nik, Brian May not British? He literally has the CBE order "Most Excellent Order of the British Empire" appointed by the Queen. If that's not British then I don't know what is.
He said what now
Someone in chat suggested Nickelback for modern metalcore 😂😂😂
LOOK AT THIS PHOTOGRAPH
0-0-0-0-0-0-0
EVERY TIME I DO
0-0 0-0 0-0
IT MAKES ME LAUUUUUUGH
@@aelrecs015 This comment is gold
@@aelrecs015 this goes hard
Now i want nickleback metalcore
"You would never be able to comprehend my music taste because I know the pieces fit" a man I asked what his favorite Tool album after I complemented his cool Tool shirt
Queensryche is like actual old school metal, if anything Tool is closer to prog rock than Queensryche. Also they were one of the bands who basically laid the foundations for later prog metal bands along w Crimson Glory
Tool is so far from progressive metal it's not even close.
@@skollin.and.rollin Prog Metal didn't start in 1995...
Yeah Queensryche is metal, it really depends on the album or song but I'd say they're prog metal and more so than Tool. Some of their songs even sound thrashy, like Queen of the Reich, or I guess closer to speed metal.
How can you say they don't qualify for prog with Operation Mindcrime and the insane production on Empire??
@@spartansquid5931 I probably phrased that not great, queensryche *is* prog metal while tool shouldn't really be considered prog metal as they're more prog rock. Queensryche is definitely old school heavy metal too, just more progressive than other old school heavy metal bands at the time.
This was so much fun to watch :D
Glad you're enjoying the content
'Phrost
@@NikNocturnalTwitchClips hey phrost i got banned from the discord server cuz my account was hacked and it send server links in the chat
could u let me join it again (im dead the guy who asked about the focusrite scarlet setup for hours)
The modern metalcore selection was terribly selected lol! Shoulda been something more like Architects, Erra, Silent Planet, and Polaris or Currents
This was an awesome segment I love stuff like this. Could you do the pop punk one too? Or punk rock?
We didn't get that far down. Nik got too tilted at the British Rock section, then we moved onto something else on on stream
'Phrost
9:59
Making a distinction between 2009 and "modern" made me feel old as shit all of a sudden.
Every time he said "new age" when referring to metal, I could only think of one thing: Enya-core
labeling dillinger as a metalcore band is like labeling a car as an air conditioner
@@ippos_khloros6163 i mean yeah but also not really. mathcore is way heavier than standard metalcore and has a lot of genre fusion which isnt as common in metalcore. so yeah mathcore is under the umbrella of metalcore, but bands like killswitch and august burns red sound nothing like dillinger, botch, ed gein etc.
At least not the Calculating Infinity lineup.
Subgenres are kinda bullshit unless you are having a conversation about subgenres. And bands change their sound all the time, I didn't even know about the terms "metalcore, deathcore, mathcore, djent, cLoWN cOR3" until like 5 years ago, but I've been a Morbid Angel/CoF/Brutal Truth fan for over 20 years.
There are certain subgenres which are kinda unmistakable like proper original black metal (Immortal, Emperor), death metal like Cannibal Corpse and Morbid Angel. Grindcore etc.
When I first heard some of the newer deathcore bands they sounded like grindcore to me, just with cleaner/heavier production and some more tonal elements.
Metal is one of the most diverse music genres, and my most favorite type of music. It all started with Deftones Around the Fur album, then the next thing I knew, I was listening to Limp Bizkit's first album the week it released, then Linkin Park, then Soilwork and In Flames etc. Ever since then, I've listened to everything to do with Metal. If it has the "rawr" in it, then I'm in love!
My entire Pandora app is fill with every subgenre of Metal. The most recent addition I added was Pop-Metal, like Poppy and Siiickbrain etc. It's freaking weird and I love it!
Dude, Queensryche is a classic metal band, that brought the prog elements into the mainstream metal of the late 80. 🤷🏽♂️
i always thought Dream Theater are Queensryche but heavier and more proggy
@@spaceriot23 good way to describe it I’d say
If it's any consolation, I would have been off on the Modern and regular Metalcore lists too. No consistency at all.
Also... Did Nik REALLY not know Queen was British? 😂😂
Haha both Queen and Led Zeppelin being British was a revelation to him!
'Phrost
Boomer metal:
Heavy metal
Black metal
Death metal
Power metal
Thrash metal
Zoomer metal:
Metalcore
Djent
Djentcore
Deathcore
Nu metal
I will not be answering any questions at this time
Pretty sure Nu Metal is like Millenial metal.
@ZombieDesertDefender Well look who it is, the main man himself.
I am radically surprised they recognized Trivium for thier evolution and uprising.
FROM THE DEPTHS, I WILL RISE
(Shadow of the Abbiotor reference)
That honestly made my day. Trivium are incredible musicians
9:04 I CALLED IT!! It would’ve been lowkey disrespectful to make a top djent bands and NOT include those 4 in the top 5 imo
These lists is like a father‘s disappointment very immense
With the metalcore list (not the “modern” metalcore list), I was actually thinking to myself “watch them mix the 90s and 2000s after Nik said they wouldn’t. Already happens in the first two bands with killswitch and converge. Lol F’ing awesome.
I'm just gonna say that Bring Me still slaps hard ok? They're still going strong. Love them
TBDM is my all time favorite band.... Losing Trevor was, and still is, devastating... R.I.P. Brother...
Norma Jean started in the early 2000’s lol
Also Converge deserves to count under your “2000’s metalcore” list because Jane Doe didn’t come out until 2001, which really put them on the map
That’s what I’m saying dude has no idea what he’s talking about
BFMV is in my top 5 metalcore bands they were my gateway into the sub genre along side avenged sevenfold
I'm so stoked you said the words "Black Dahlia is fucking amazing". That felt vindicating for some reason. It feels like no one ever mentions them, and they're far and away my favorite band, so thank you!
same thing made me smile@ fuk yeah
Black Dahlia is one of those bands where even if their names aren’t mentioned? They’re on everyone’s list. Like Breaking Benjamin, we love them no matter what.
Issue with Loudwire is they are so fucking out of touch it’s the equivalent of trusting a blind man to run a nuclear power plant.
Modern Metalcore list was way off but they put Converge in the Metalcore list lol. I was right about Dillinger at least 😂🤘🏾.
dude Queensryche over Tool was a crime against nature for the Prog big 4. Mostly I think the vast majority of those lists were created by either casual fans or by fans of other genres who approached them as outsiders. You just know too much Metalcore and got in your own head lol. Sometimes simpler is better though I do agree that some of their band classifications were weird. Should have just done a singular Metalcore list and been done with it... that whole old and new was just confusing lol.
Queensryche over Tool makes sense if you look at the bands they mentioned as having a prog sound instead of prog song structures. Tool sounds like Tool. They're practically a one-band genre to the point that they'd be the first band any band would be compared to if they used certain combinations of sounds and time signatures.
Queensryche is one of the ogs that made prog metal a thing. Really, if you are going to take about big 4 of prog in the same sense as thrash, its going to be Queensryche, Fates Warning, Dream Theater and uh I guess we can have Tool now.
wait did you not know queen is british? they're quite possibly the most famous british band alongside Oasis and the beatles.
I'm pretty sure the Stones wants a word with you
@@slyder35 in all fairness, if you were to list the top 5 british bands of all time, I bet Queen, oasis and the beatles would be there. And of all the British bands Queen has to be #1. There's no way queen could be anything else
@@callumhawkins2937 the stones makes the top 3 of most famous british bands, was my point
For NWOAHM I'd put:
Chimera
Machine Head
Killswitch Engage
Hatebreed
For Nu Metal:
Disturbed
Slipknot
Linkin Park
Coal Chamber
For Death Metal:
Deicide
Cannibal Corpse
Morbid Angel
Children Of Bodom (melodic Death Metal, obviously)
Deathcore:
Suicide Silence
Carnifex
Thy Art Is Murder
Job For A Cowboy
Chelsea Grin
Metalcore
Trivium
KSE (again)
Bullet For My Valentine
All That Remains
Grindcore:
Napalm Death
Carcass
Terrorrizer
Pig Destroyer
Prog:
Opeth
Periphery
BTBAM
Animals As Leaders
Thrash:
Megadeth
Exodus
Metallica (sorry, not sorry 😎👑)
Havok (Thrash Revival, of course)
Black Metal:
Venom
Darkthrone
Mayhem
Burzum
NWOBHM:
Iron Maiden
Motörhead
Grim Reaper
Diamond Head
Proto Metal
Beatles (Helter Skelter is an absolute jam!)
Cream
Blue Cheer
The Jimi Hendrix Experience
Heavy Metal/Hard Rock
Black Sabbath
Judas Priest
Stephenwolf
Lucifers Friend (if you don't know who these are, check out their track 'Ride The Sky'
If I could only pick 4 favourite bands:
Trivium
Iron Maiden
Megadeth
Bullet For My Valentine
Completely hypothetical(also just poking fun) I like the new direction but:
Maybe bands like pwd, bmth, hundredth, architects,etc. had this same conversation/epiphany/confusion/whatever you want to call it like nik did @or around the 15:12 mark, and that what made them change from metalcore.🤣🤣
16:15
Have you considered that this list was generated by an intern at Loudwire who doesn't really like Metal?
I think the most relatable thing nik said in this entire video is "i'm over metalcore" 🤣🤣
Dude I've been a long time fan and I love all your content, but as an old school hesher, this one was so fun to watch. Do more lists!
The reason Tool wasn't on there is because the overlap between Tool fans and prog fans isn't really that big. Most Tool fans don't listen to other prog, because they found Tool through radio play. And a lot of prog fans think of Tool as prog lite.
Queensryche is prog-metal, because they were considered metal when they came out.
Slight correction, Queensryche is considered metal because they just... play metal. The line for what is and isn't metal doesn't really move, a band playing the exact same music as Queensryche coming out today would still be metal.
@@jdiejejerje661 To be more specific, Queensrÿche is influenced by NWOBHM. Tool plays prog rock.
Unpopular opinion: But if you're talking what is literally Metalcore (hardcore + Metal) Hatebreed, Earth Crisis, Unearth, and Malevolence are Big 4.
Triviums comeback arc has been beautiful to see.
WTDMS was the first and only time I've had to wait for Amazon to get a restock of a new CD.
Honestly, Big 4 of Death Metal for me:
Death
Cannibal Corpse
Morbid Angel
Obituary
How in flames wasn't on the death metal big 4 I'll never figure out
Melodeath should’ve been a separate list. Then there should be bands like In Flames, At The Gates, Dark Tranquility, and The Black Dahlia Murder.
Because they're not a death metal band
@@kanglongshankz3313 Melodic death metal is still death metal and since melodic didn't have its own category...
Also cannibal corpse is grindcore
@@jordanwolfe739 Melodic death metal is melodic death metal. Death metal is death metal.
@@jordanwolfe739 Even melodeath not being there, In Flames are never getting ahead of Death, Morbid Angel, Possessed, Obituary, Deicide, Atheist, Immolation etc. But, this is Loudwire after all so anything goes.
Kind of surprised they didn't put Dimmu Borgir in the black metal section. I know they weren't founders or anything but they became pretty huge in the black metal scene. Perhaps they should've added a symphonic black metal section or something.
Go up to that Loudwire author and ask that dude to name 4 songs off a band shirt. He aint answering.
🤣
'Phrost
I called it as soon as the metalcore section came up that Dillinger would be on there.
How?
Go to 10:49 where the article itself calls Dillinger a metalcore band, and furthermore “the DNA of 2000’s metalcore.”
I think Nik being such a metalcore scene kid is exactly what brought him down in the metalcore section. He knows too much about the genre, its history and artists. He listed bands that outsiders would not recognize at all, even if those bands were instrumental to metalcore. Plus I wasn't even surprised to see Converge and Killswitch in the same place, but Nik sees the difference.
Kinda hard to nail these when 'Modern' list has bands that are old as fuck, and the normal section has one band that aren't even Metalcore to begin with lol
And this is exactly why I got 4/4 in the djent category. I don't even listen to it.
Loudwire is like picking up a tabloid from the corner market and expecting it to be valid information.
Does anyone have the link to this VOD? video skipped over a couple I'd like to see lol
Nik: suprised that tool isnt in the prog metal category
Tool isnt even a metal band, they are prog rock not prog metal
tool is def prog rock but early on they were pigeonholed into the prog metal category so most people just kinda "eh tool is prog metal"
@breakbot no they are not, they are prog rock at best. They are not metal at all
@breakbot Danny Carey of Tool said himself in multiple posts saying that they arent metal at all
Black Dahila Murder as the fourth of the big four is absolutely ridiculous. It's as it has always been Death, Morbid Angel, Cannibal Corpse, and Deicide😂😂😂 Loudwire should be ashamed of themselves putting Black Dahila Murder there. No disrespect to Black Dahila Murder, though👍🏿👍🏿👍🏿
Hearing Todd la Torre do gutturals during a queensryche set makes me feel like their metal 🤔🤔
3:23 Alright, maybe I'm dumb or something, but I kind of thought Queensryche would be there. Am I just dumb? I thought they were one of the first big prog metal bands. Is it just that they're not heavy enough or something? I thought they were, but then I thought Deep Purple were metal too, and I've been chewed out enough about that.
Revisionist history, just because they don't sound like the modern prog stuff doesn't mean they weren't in their time. Also Purple was a huge influence on many later sub genres so if they don't count they're at least pretty damn close to metal.
@@LongLiveRockAnRoll That's what I usually try to say, but you bring it up with the wrong types of people and you'll never hear the end of it.
How do you guys know soo many bands. I got into metal (mostly metalcore and post hardcore) and i knew maybe half of the bands. I can't imagine ever having that much knowledge about metal. 😂
Love I Prevail.
I had a similar experience you had with Metalcore, with Gothic Metal... My big four in that genre would have been Type o Negative, Paradise Lost (Hell, they invented the genre), Tiamat and The Gathering or Fields of the Nephilim. They only included Type o Negative, while non of the other bands they listed I would even consider as Gothic Metal. HIM I could accept, but Lacuna Coil are Alternative Metal with only a hint of Gothic Metal in their early works and Cradle of Filth are Symphonic (Black/Dark).
They put Paradise Lost further down the line in Doom Metal... hmmm I believe their place there would have been better given to a band like Swallow the Sun and Paradise Lost would have been better placed in Gothic Metal, but okay... thats kinda fair.
I love them, but nothing I've heard from Fields of the Nephilim sounds like metal.
I would have thought Draconian would have made the goth metal list because of how widely popular that band is. And yes, TECHNICALLY it's gothic doom not gothic metal.... but same difference
Nik: "QUEEN isnt british"
Every British person ever: _tilted_
Sorry, but I personally find it hilarious how people are surprised about the metalcore picks. Consistency and debating about classic/modern bands in the genre - fine. But if one considers metalcore as a whole, it seems absolutely clear to me that only three names have to be on there without discussion: Bring Me The Horizon, Parkway Drive and Architects. With all due respect to the metalcore bands that paved the way for those three bands: the article was talking about "biggest". And no matter which metric one looks at (album sales, streams, awards, festival gigs, arena tours, critical acclaim...) there is no one above those three bands in the genre of metalcore (defined loosely), at least not currently.
Should be a crime not to include TOOL
Do people just forget that BMTH's There is A Hell exists? Like BMTH was metalcore from suicide season to sempiternal but there was an album between those two. Lmao
How can they be so accurate at the first genres and fail so hard on the last, its rediculous🤣 must have been different authors, some failed their job totally..
I just don’t get why Asking Alexandria isn’t on the metalcore lists? Like they played on jimmy kimmel live ffs, they were huge their first 3 albums so I don’t understand and literally were killing it.
Because they are nowhere near any of the other bands.
@@musicdude1540 they used to be better than 90% of them
And say what you want but the numbers from those albums don’t lie.
And even 4th
Loudwire rankings are always like not having a gas mask at a dumpster fire in the middle of a skunk orgy on a 103° day....sorry not sorry
Can anyone recommend me to power metal bands where the front man has good high notes? like really good high notes
Good video don't agree with the picks they made. Your reactions are great
I loved this article when the included Trivium. I lost faith in it at the metalcore part
I always love to see just how passionate and fairly serious Nik gets with things like this. I wish I had just a fraction of the passion he has for music that I could put into something............. what I could create/accomplish. Gotta love Nik and all of his over the topness. ❤😂 Also, great editing guys. I was able to catch this stream live and still enjoyed the replay.
Brilliant commentary Nik!!! THIS is why I love geeking out on music. Your knowledge just amazes me!!! I know you were doing this for shits and giggles but to tap into your mind like that and take a look at all that metal content…. 😮
I am voting for YOU as the metal spokesperson of our time.
Literally any chance they get to throw shade at Tim Lambesis 😂
I mean, it's deserved lol
I mean what he did was wildly fucked up. Shade is the least of his problems.
I am with you 100% with ATB!! They should've been on there! Plus they're my nephew's friends
I would put bmth in the metalcore class. That band is a light year ahead of everyone else.
Glad I got to see Job For A Cowboy, Underoath, BMTH, Trivium, and As I Lay Dying, wish I got to see Devil Wears Prada, Asking Alexandria (their good shit), Bullet For My Valentine, Atreyu, Dance Gavin Dance and Miss May I
Welllll, norma Jean and converge got big in the 2000s, so I get why they are in metalcore
norma Jean wasnt a band until 2002.
lutikris before that but that was between 97-01 but they werent even signed until 2000.
The last album by Qüeensryche 'The Veredict' is very heavy but I think Symphony X is better and needs to be in the list
I miss job for a cowboy. Hope they come back
KNEE DEEP
Not having Polaris as a modern metalcore pick is a fucking GROSS oversight on their part.
I was literally screaming Polaris at my screen watching that part.
@@PRC533 like I don’t understand how they could put Underoath as a modern band. They started in 1997 lmao. I can kinda see how PWD would make it but they started in 2003 so that’s not “modern” either.
Job For a Cowboy is a tech death band now homie.
After the burial wtf bro! They're not ever mentioned when it comes to djent. they're like deathcore band with djenty feel but barely anyone I know listens to them
Agreed man, ATB are my 2nd favourite band. However it seems like barely anyone knows they exist.
Metalcore can be split into 4 erras at this point
90s - Converge, Earth Crisis, norma jean, Poison the well.
Early 00s - AILD, B4MV, KSE, All that remains.
Late 00s - Prada, Parkway, underoath, ABR.
10s - architects, northlane, wage war, erra
Not sure about the last one.
Early 00s and 90s was the most enjoyable of them change my mind
@@mazerunner7640 why would i change your mind? When its facts!
How are there two metalcore lists and August Burns Red doesn’t make the cut but…Underoath does?
Lowdwire usually gets things wrong, but holy shit, that Modern metalcore list was a clusterfuck of totally inaccurate placesments( other then Architects) what it should look like is something like this:
Architects
Spiritbox
Ice Nine Kills
Crystal Lake
And OG Metalcore should have been:
(000s)
Killswitch Engage
As I lay dying
Bullet for my Valentine
All that Remains
(90s)
Converge
Earth crisis
Hatebreed
All out war ( or, disembodied)
And Djent and progressive metal should have been more like this:
Prog metal.
Tool
Meshuggah ( they are prog death metal, NOT djent)
Dream Theater
Queensryche ( yes, they are prog metal)
Djent.
Animals as leaders
After the burial
Periphery
Tesseract
I laughed painfully at the lists. You shouldn’t be able to mix metalcore eras. Has to be split. Thanks for fun vid Nik.🤘🏼🖤
Theory: 3/5 as i lay dying members left because tim wanted their next album to be butt rock
I'm pretty sure that Tim is the only remaining member now that even the drummer has left.
@@TobikunOuO Nope. Phil is a founding member and the one that wrote the majority of the guitars for the band.
@@DragonKnightX12 Jordan was there from the start too though. The fact he's sitting out is a giant red flag (the past notwithstanding)
@@thealgorithmluvsu3788 The only people really know what’s going on is them. Jordan as far as I’m aware hasn’t said anything yet.
Josh just seems like he took the opportunity to move up the ladder.
Fun fact for a lot of people that might not know Metalcore is actually not a metal sub genre it's actuality a Punk rock sub genre it came from the Punk scene back in the 90s the original name was called metallic Hardcore And the reason why I don't like a lot of metalcore is because it doesn't sound Punk anymore some of it does but a lot of it doesn't
semantics
@@aelrecs015 Nope it's straight up facts but of course metal heads hate the truth Many beloved things in metal culture actually was copied from Punk rock culture mosh Pitt's, blast beats, and breakdowns literally all of that But it's OK you can keep running away from the truth Metal heads hate the truth just like they hate bass 🤣😂
@@siouxsiexymox6594 i listen to both punk and metal. the first fusions of metal and hardcore were more on the punk side, hence it was called metallic hardcore. as time progressed, metal and hardcore punk meshed better and became a solid whole, metalcore.
Jinjer should have been in prog list🤷♀️
Wtf, why?
I’m convinced Loudwire is clowning the entire Metal community
Metalcore sucks
Its ass but let them vibe it could be worse.
It's possible for Metalcore to be good, check out Bleed From Within. The problem is that most Metalcore bands just... Aren't good.
for modern metalcore i said: I prevail, INK, Architects and wage war
1st as f!
1th
'Phrost
@@NikNocturnalTwitchClips 2th
Nic, this was one of the best reaction videos of the last months. I understand your inconsistency complaint so much! But that's just the result of "creating' artificial categories of metal. It was sooo easy back in the 80s, when there was only a handful of directions we had to know. 🤣
Nik Nocturnal and chat losing it when they see Killswitch, Converge, and Dillinger for metalcore. One dude in the chat guessed the fourth would be Oasis. Doesn’t it kinda make sense though? It said METALCORE, not fucking 1996-2002 or 2003-2008, just METALCORE. I think it makes sense but I was still hoping it would be Converge, Dillinger, PTW, and Norma Jean or maybe Botch
maybe Zao
Yeah.
Botch and converge is real Metalcore.