wajang1000 well I wrote my phrasing to be distinctively difficult. Let’s take my Violin Ciaccona for example. Take a 12 year old violin prodigy who can play the Sauret Cadenza perfectly. First they look at the violin piece, next they call it a piece of cake, then they play it and it isn’t good. Only musicians with several years of experience under their belt, not just natural talent, but musical integrity. It requires masterful ability to play phrasing in a good percentage of my pieces.
4 года назад
I still find the faster more ' common ' interpretation more appealing when played by an experienced musician
I have been wrestling with phrasing of this on alto recorder. This master class has given me a great new way of interpreting the phrase boundaries. Bravo and thank you to teacher and student for sharing …. I only wish the lesson had continued into the second half of the Allemande
@@jeanluc3168 You will have to list some pretty impressive credentials to convince me the head of the historical flute department at the Royal Conservatory at the Hague doesn't know what she is talking about when she refers to the transverse flutes that were played in the baroque period as baroque flutes: ruclips.net/video/UwrKzMJ60bM/видео.html
@@arcticwanderer2000 Exactly, it's a baroque "tranverse'' flute and it's a baroque flute because there are many kinds of "flutes". It was usually called at that time a traverso. For me, its sounds really better than a modern flute. It seems very hard to play this instrument
The allemande isnt about playing slowly with each note shining like a diamond. The allemande is a dance that is danced within a certain sized space. This piece is an example of bach playing the PERFORMANCE SPACE. The way he set this up is for the previous 4 notes to ring as a chord in the rooms natural reverb that sit underneith the next 4 notes played. Look no further than the Baroque and Traverso flute players to hear precisely how this piece should be played and what spaces it is played in.
I agree. Im not a classical trained musician tho I play some classical guitar pieces and most professionals play Bach at such speed that the piece can't breath properly and that annoys me.
It drives me crazy that he was never told to give the last note in the phrases enough space.
2 года назад+1
So I’m not the only one. It feels like he’s cutting all the last notes of the phrases in half, so he can squeeze in a breath during the other half. I wish he would take more time.
I was wondering the same thing.This isn't quite right, but is played at a relaxed tempo, with the phrases (and the performer) given room to breathe: ruclips.net/video/X0T6KysSejQ/видео.html The baroque flute is also much nicer.
I wonder why is it guy so close accepting the suggestion!!! He is always rushing into the first note of the next phrase without giving enough space for the silence. Benjamin once said silence is the extension of the emotion.
Thank you, very insightful! I was struggling with the phrasing at bar 14 (and others) myself. This piece almost lost its charm for me but with proper phrasing it can be touching once more!
I play flute (intermediate). Two things to add to this. If the flutist takes a deep breath quietly then it will not be noticeable. Another technique which is very rarely used, is circular breathing. It works best on double reed instruments and haven not tried it myself. The technique is to fill your cheeks with air before running out of breath and inhale through the nose while deflating your cheeks. That way you do not need to pause for breath at all. It requires a lot of practice.
Perhaps you could give us your opinion about the deceptive-cadence before the "real" cadence at the end of this first movement. Do you think of it as d-minor in 1st inversion or as an A7 chord. Because I do the repeats, it's a very long movement. Due to this I can think of the deception as A7 allowing me to go further and not emphasize the deception or contrarily - like knowing where the keys to my house are yet enjoying being home standing on my porch before calling it a day - wait there a tad on d (6-3). Is this as ambiguous/ambivalent as I feel? My teacher used to call this a "three times a-minor cadence" with which I didn't agree (45 years ago). While I'm on the subject, I like to put the second repeat BEFORE this deception, playing a long A (similar to the long E in the first ending of the first half, making this cadence by the 2nd time even more deceptive. I feel the balance of the piece is thrown off by what I feel - but can't substantiate - this "copyist mistake" accomplishes. I'd appreciate your inspired opinion in this matter, very much. Thank you. And thank you for your inspired instruction which contribute in a major way in helping to make and keep my life wonderful.
The acoustics are dead. Actually, I would like to hear this lad after a term of master classes with James Galway ... learn about air, and how to sail over passages, .. breathe
As a recorderplayer I understand the difficulties with the right phrasing and breathing. They made it much more logical, but I don't agree with all choices. I have more problems with the students articulation, accents an way of playing ornamentation... Maybe the masterclass puts too much emphasis on harmonical understanding?
Try it faster. One could then be hearing the harmonies perfectly well then without fussing. And CPE Bach instructs us that where nothing else is indicated notes should be assumed to be detaché. So the young flutist's instinct was correct in the first place.
I'm not agree with everything because he ignores the two voices of this piece : he only focuses on a harmonic ( chords ) point of view. But I have to say the student was much better with this lesson : the idea to make the breath part of the melody and not a problem is really fundamental.
Unfortunately this young flautist has learned a romantic style of playing which is not appropriate for Bach. Oddly, Bach is best when it's played dry and let the notes speak for themselves.
thethikboy also it sounds better on the baroque flute, it takes less air to play so the player can play a longer phrase without taking too many breathes, on the modern flute it’s a different story because you’ll need a lot of air to play
The wonderful teacher, Mr. Zander, often teaches anti-music. What he does or allows to be done with the masterpiece is creepy, boring and profoundly anti-musical. He completely destroys the rhythmical, metrical, harmonic flow. His perception of harmonic dynamics is absolutely eccentric and grotesque. An example is an interpretation by a grand master ruclips.net/video/GP430mRuVjg/видео.html (It is actually instructive that he shows the famous drawing and optical illusion at the beginning. Only this does not represent a young and an old woman... The correct term would be Beauty and the Beast. In fact, everyone sees what they want to see. This is by no means a reason to force your vision of the beast in this piece on the audience. And in fact, it is wrong to trivialize the piece... as the student does at the beginning. But with all due respect, it is not a beast...)
could you explain your solution or provide a recording you think utilises it? I felt zander's approach was a definite improvement on how I'm used to hearing this piece but if there's another way I'd like to hear it
@@nicholasscott9672 the flute playing is definitely not only about where we need to breath, there is a lot of places in this movement where we have a possibility to change the colors of the sound. The problem of this student is not the tempo, the problem is that he don't know where the phrases are going and when there is a new harmony... And in any case if you are trained enough to breath very quick and deep you don't need to play it soooo slow to be comfortable. Really for me it's too much, sounds too pathetic. Actually I played this so many times in different way, included as in this video and everytime I found something new. Sorry, I doesn't want to be sharp I love maestro Zander a lot, he is a great musician who inspires me. I wanted just to say that there is a lot of very good performances of this piece. In any case who cares what I am saying with my bad english, all we need is in the music :D
And my friend, if you think that I am only speaker, give me your e-mail I will send you some very good recordings of this piece. I can even send you one of my performances if you want, even if I don't think it is good one :)
@@narekavakianmusique I like your comment most of all. This piece can be phrased in different ways and still be played musically - that is the genius of Bach. Any claim that there is only one right way to play it, or that one way is necessarily better than another is eccentric and arrogant. BTW, I prefer a faster tempo, too!
If the performer showed enough respect to the audiences, he would practice more before the class. He got wrong interpretation of Bach music, and exhibited inadequate music talent as well.
Don't be such a prick If the commenter showed enough respect for the performer they wouldn't post such unhelpful critiques. Don't you think this man practiced? You don't know his story.
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I find most modern Bach recordings lack proper phrasing interpretation. The maestro is spot on with this interpretation.
wajang1000 well I wrote my phrasing to be distinctively difficult. Let’s take my Violin Ciaccona for example. Take a 12 year old violin prodigy who can play the Sauret Cadenza perfectly. First they look at the violin piece, next they call it a piece of cake, then they play it and it isn’t good. Only musicians with several years of experience under their belt, not just natural talent, but musical integrity. It requires masterful ability to play phrasing in a good percentage of my pieces.
I still find the faster more ' common ' interpretation more appealing when played by an experienced musician
@@johannsebastianbach1649
Either played as an exercise, or played in True Baroque Virtuosity from the heart!😁
25:11 and every single note comes under limelight, each shining like a diamond... wonderful teacher, great student.
Comes under limelight, yes - and completely artificial. People, have you gone crazy...? What are you listening to? This is pure anti-music.
I have been wrestling with phrasing of this on alto recorder. This master class has given me a great new way of interpreting the phrase boundaries. Bravo and thank you to teacher and student for sharing …. I only wish the lesson had continued into the second half of the Allemande
😅😅😅
He is magnificent! To have this kind of perspective from a non-flute player is invaluable.
The RUclips video of Kate Clark on a Baroque flute is probably the best rendidtion of the piece I have heard.
Amen
Root is far better, and the baroque "flute" is called Traverso, a baroque flute is a recorder.
@@jeanluc3168 You will have to list some pretty impressive credentials to convince me the head of the historical flute department at the Royal Conservatory at the Hague doesn't know what she is talking about when she refers to the transverse flutes that were played in the baroque period as baroque flutes: ruclips.net/video/UwrKzMJ60bM/видео.html
@@arcticwanderer2000 Exactly, it's a baroque "tranverse'' flute and it's a baroque flute because there are many kinds of "flutes". It was usually called at that time a traverso. For me, its sounds really better than a modern flute. It seems very hard to play this instrument
That was absolutely wonderful. Thank you for sharing!
A piece that modern musicians rarely know to perform how it has to be.
The allemande isnt about playing slowly with each note shining like a diamond. The allemande is a dance that is danced within a certain sized space. This piece is an example of bach playing the PERFORMANCE SPACE. The way he set this up is for the previous 4 notes to ring as a chord in the rooms natural reverb that sit underneith the next 4 notes played. Look no further than the Baroque and Traverso flute players to hear precisely how this piece should be played and what spaces it is played in.
Such a beautiful piece. When it is played at "break neck speed" it loses it's beauty. ❤
I agree. Im not a classical trained musician tho I play some classical guitar pieces and most professionals play Bach at such speed that the piece can't breath properly and that annoys me.
The piece sounds beautiful on the piano.
it's great! he talk him how to BREATHE through the piece! so extremely important
OMG
I never thought it would be played like this O.O
It makes much more sense now!
Soul-piercing Bach. The flute an arrow to my heart.
🙄
Finally some sense in the light speed performance practices of today... Music is not a race of who finishes first!
I'm currently learning this piece he is such a great teacher ^^
This is not just a lesson in BWV 1013 it's also a lesson in teaching
It drives me crazy that he was never told to give the last note in the phrases enough space.
So I’m not the only one. It feels like he’s cutting all the last notes of the phrases in half, so he can squeeze in a breath during the other half.
I wish he would take more time.
Bravo!!! I´m currently studying this piece and found this suberb interpretation! Thanks a lot for sharing this knowledge!
Bravo maestro! It's always about phrasing!
❤ Cool... Je viens de trouver une des meilleures explication et interprétation à mon goût de l' Allemande.
Un grand merci pour votre vidéo.
I feel like this piece sounds better on baroque recorder
Usually on traverso.
Did the first ending for my freshman highschool solo still gonna work on this and see if I can get the whole thing for my Jr or senior year
didnt manage to find a recording that plays it the way Mr. Zander tries to tell us, do somebody knows one? it should be so beautiful.
I was wondering the same thing.This isn't quite right, but is played at a relaxed tempo, with the phrases (and the performer) given room to breathe: ruclips.net/video/X0T6KysSejQ/видео.html
The baroque flute is also much nicer.
This is a Baroque era work, if you want to listen to it interpreted in the style of the Baroque:
ruclips.net/video/GP430mRuVjg/видео.html
Can't find any, guess no one do bach in this way.
Unfortunately, I couldn't find a single recording that uses this phrasing, which now I'm obsessed with.
I wonder why is it guy so close accepting the suggestion!!! He is always rushing into the first note of the next phrase without giving enough space for the silence. Benjamin once said silence is the extension of the emotion.
Is hard when on the spot like this. But the point is to give him a new perspective he can think about and practice at home.
Simply amazing!
Thank you, very insightful! I was struggling with the phrasing at bar 14 (and others) myself. This piece almost lost its charm for me but with proper phrasing it can be touching once more!
Awesome! Thank you for sharing😊
A good teacher molds himself to the interpretation of his student.. overruling his student puts the limelight on himself. the student vanishes
I play it on the classical guitar, it is not a simple piece at all🎉🎉🎉🎉❤
those tritones at 17:56
Excellent!
É a flauta envolvente
Que mexe com a mente
De quem tá presente
As novinha saliente
Fica loucona
E se joga pra gente
kkkkkk
Really interesting phrasing I like it !
Wonderful!
BUM BUM TAM TAM
😂😂😂right!!
OMG! Why?
@@kinguitar1987 Ritmo!!!! Metronomo!!!!!!
J.S.Bach...!!!!!!!!!!!
You got it
As a brazilian, I apologize for that
Bravo 👏
Whats carlos instagram? I want to see more of his work!!! That was just brilliant
I play flute (intermediate). Two things to add to this. If the flutist takes a deep breath quietly then it will not be noticeable. Another technique which is very rarely used, is circular breathing. It works best on double reed instruments and haven not tried it myself. The technique is to fill your cheeks with air before running out of breath and inhale through the nose while deflating your cheeks. That way you do not need to pause for breath at all. It requires a lot of practice.
lol can we get an interpretation for the rest of the allemande
If you really understood this, you should be able to build an interpretation of the development by yourself.
@@alexandrechatty5439 Yup!
Brilliant!!
Very interesting;
Does Benjamin Zander dye his hair with a tinge of purple? Because I'm feeling that for him.
No
Ritmo!!!!!!!!!!!!! Metronomo!!!!!!!!!
La música no es metonómica 🙄
13:36 feeling the tension.
I find that piano sounds attractive
I'd love to see Benjamin take a death metal masterclass.
Sure, i'd love to see him take a dark techno class on skillshare aswell but here we are...
Music could be difficult if you don't listen carefully. I do the breathing techniques from listening.
This Carlos guy is soooo cute! And he's a flute player like me! We were meant to be. 😂
Wow make sure he's gay first
I'm also a male flutist/flautist
But not gay *GOOD LUCK*
@@灵灵-c2t Lol he doesn't have to be gay 😂 he can be a very attractive straight man. And yay another fellow male flautist. ^^
@@ACAC9292 glad to be a part of our male flute society
lol same ^~^
Found his insta he's gay.
If this is how people would play Bach, I would probably like Bach much more.
Perhaps you could give us your opinion about the deceptive-cadence before the "real" cadence at the end of this first movement. Do you think of it as d-minor in 1st inversion or as an A7 chord. Because I do the repeats, it's a very long movement. Due to this I can think of the deception as A7 allowing me to go further and not emphasize the deception or contrarily - like knowing where the keys to my house are yet enjoying being home standing on my porch before calling it a day - wait there a tad on d (6-3). Is this as ambiguous/ambivalent as I feel? My teacher used to call this a "three times a-minor cadence" with which I didn't agree (45 years ago). While I'm on the subject, I like to put the second repeat BEFORE this deception, playing a long A (similar to the long E in the first ending of the first half, making this cadence by the 2nd time even more deceptive. I feel the balance of the piece is thrown off by what I feel - but can't substantiate - this "copyist mistake" accomplishes. I'd appreciate your inspired opinion in this matter, very much. Thank you. And thank you for your inspired instruction which contribute in a major way in helping to make and keep my life wonderful.
Oh yeah, by this deception in d-minor I help it along by adding two grace notes (f' and d'') before the a''.
Gold!
The acoustics are dead.
Actually, I would like to hear this lad after a term of master classes with James Galway ... learn about air, and how to sail over passages, .. breathe
anime hair
But what about circular breath? Can be that the answer?
I wonder if anyone has tried that
I saw a mouse on that pic
Wait.. what?
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
what happened to that dude's face at 13:40? kkkk
As a recorderplayer I understand the difficulties with the right phrasing and breathing. They made it much more logical, but I don't agree with all choices. I have more problems with the students articulation, accents an way of playing ornamentation... Maybe the masterclass puts too much emphasis on harmonical understanding?
His notes are way too short, you need to give the notes the full value.
I found it really distracting to see him stick his tongue out with each breath.
Ihr quält euch ganz schön ab, was?! Naja...wenn man nicht dabei war, ists schwer Bach zu verstehen, nicht wahr?!:)))
I wish I could pay it.... how dumb I am... u_u
Try it faster. One could then be hearing the harmonies perfectly well then without fussing. And CPE Bach instructs us that where nothing else is indicated notes should be assumed to be detaché. So the young flutist's instinct was correct in the first place.
The new, slower tempo, yes. The new phrase choices, no.
L take
No circular breathing.
Well, one can agree or... disagree with the teacher's opinion of where the phrases are, no to speak about the style...
I'm not agree with everything because he ignores the two voices of this piece : he only focuses on a harmonic ( chords ) point of view. But I have to say the student was much better with this lesson : the idea to make the breath part of the melody and not a problem is really fundamental.
Tiri riri to see and then to c and then to 👀
Does anyone knows the music played at 6:15?
bach cello suite no 5 allemande
Unfortunately this young flautist has learned a romantic style of playing which is not appropriate for Bach. Oddly, Bach is best when it's played dry and let the notes speak for themselves.
thethikboy also it sounds better on the baroque flute, it takes less air to play so the player can play a longer phrase without taking too many breathes, on the modern flute it’s a different story because you’ll need a lot of air to play
@@ninoding I think that's partly because modern flute players are taught to play a full thick sound all the time when it's not necessary for this rep.
Rik77 agreed
I'm sure Bach would love his music played in more modern styles
Unfortunately that’s not for Baroque
Esto no suena bien en flauta traversa
Très étouffant comme prof, pas d 'accord avec les phrasés,trop de bla- bla, chaque phrase est appuyée, trop de ralentis...
The flautist has a lot to un-learn when playing Bach. Bach is best when played drier - ' plus sec'.
He’s quite distracting. 😍🙃😅
The wonderful teacher, Mr. Zander, often teaches anti-music. What he does or allows to be done with the masterpiece is creepy, boring and profoundly anti-musical. He completely destroys the rhythmical, metrical, harmonic flow. His perception of harmonic dynamics is absolutely eccentric and grotesque. An example is an interpretation by a grand master ruclips.net/video/GP430mRuVjg/видео.html (It is actually instructive that he shows the famous drawing and optical illusion at the beginning. Only this does not represent a young and an old woman... The correct term would be Beauty and the Beast. In fact, everyone sees what they want to see. This is by no means a reason to force your vision of the beast in this piece on the audience. And in fact, it is wrong to trivialize the piece... as the student does at the beginning. But with all due respect, it is not a beast...)
pas bon, même pas bon du tout!!!
This is a terrible interpretation of Bach. This is no Allemande anymore. He made a romantic Interpretation of this barock movement. Horrible
So boring both of them, unfortunately. There is 4th solution actually.
could you explain your solution or provide a recording you think utilises it? I felt zander's approach was a definite improvement on how I'm used to hearing this piece but if there's another way I'd like to hear it
otherwise it's pretty useless to snipe from the sidelines while offering no advice
@@nicholasscott9672 the flute playing is definitely not only about where we need to breath, there is a lot of places in this movement where we have a possibility to change the colors of the sound. The problem of this student is not the tempo, the problem is that he don't know where the phrases are going and when there is a new harmony... And in any case if you are trained enough to breath very quick and deep you don't need to play it soooo slow to be comfortable. Really for me it's too much, sounds too pathetic.
Actually I played this so many times in different way, included as in this video and everytime I found something new. Sorry, I doesn't want to be sharp I love maestro Zander a lot, he is a great musician who inspires me. I wanted just to say that there is a lot of very good performances of this piece.
In any case who cares what I am saying with my bad english, all we need is in the music :D
And my friend, if you think that I am only speaker, give me your e-mail I will send you some very good recordings of this piece.
I can even send you one of my performances if you want, even if I don't think it is good one :)
@@narekavakianmusique I like your comment most of all. This piece can be phrased in different ways and still be played musically - that is the genius of Bach. Any claim that there is only one right way to play it, or that one way is necessarily better than another is eccentric and arrogant. BTW, I prefer a faster tempo, too!
If the performer showed enough respect to the audiences, he would practice more before the class. He got wrong interpretation of Bach music, and exhibited inadequate music talent as well.
Don't be such a prick
If the commenter showed enough respect for the performer they wouldn't post such unhelpful critiques. Don't you think this man practiced? You don't know his story.