This is interesting, because, Garry Kasparov, who was considered to be the greatest chess player of all time, publically rebelled against the Soviet system like multiple times. One was when he was on stage, and another was when he put a new Russian flag, symbolizing his rebellion against the USSR. The Kasparov-Karpov rivalry became the greatest not just due to their playing styles but also due to the political climate at that time.
Kasparov is an ungrateful traitor to the Russian people. They saw through his cheap attempts to gain office, and his attempts to undermine Russia by siding with their enemies.
Truth is that in Russia true intellectuals have always been mostly dissidents, including chess players and famous writers, musicians etc. All because the political regime in USSR and in modern Putin’s Russia is brutal and anti-human. So obviously top chess players were and are open or undercover dissidents. Karpov was more like exception among the chess players to be a loyalist. Nowadays only Karjakin is loyal to Putin, while Nepo, Dubov, Grishuk and many others signed a petition of chess players against the war in 2022.
Yeah, it's also funny because the person who helped him get to the national and international stage was the high-ranking CPSU member Geydar Aliev. So it's always funny to watch him 'rebel' against the system which greatly contributed to his accomplishments.
Personally, I don't think Russian chess fell off, it's just that the other schools of chess rose up or that other countries caught up and managed to produce players at the top level (like the U.S., China, and India). And then there's Magnus Carlsen.
@@lordtouchme77 I was talking about peak Kramnik which was in 90 - 2000. By the way, what are you talking about? In the recent match there were constant lags which both arbiters and even Jospem acknowledged. Complaining about that is not making excuses.
The Internet and chess engines made the difference. Had Magnus Carlsen been alive in 1950, he probably wouldn't have been World Champion because he wouldn't have had access to the material and resources that Soviet players did. Bobby Fischer had to teach himself Russian, and he somehow was able to get Soviet chess material to study. Today, anyone with an Internet connection has access to all the chess games ever played. They can play other top players to hone their skills. And the top-rated chess engine is free. This has levelled the playing field. There is no built in Soviet advantage any more. But just by pure numbers, it is like India will inherit from the Soviet Union as the leading chess nation for the next few decades. However, India's dominance is unlikely to be as great as that enjoyed by the Soviet Union in the 20th century just because chess has been changed forever.
To be clear, Kramnik was not using the “bathroom” every room, he was using the “rest room,” which in chess tournaments in European countries refers to the “sitting room” or “waiting room” that every top level chess tournament has - not the bathroom. That is often misquoted/incorrectly translated. GM Ben Finegold has confirmed on many occasions that Kramnik used the “rest room” every turn because he was hiding the fact that he was smoking from his wife.
Yes. For instance he was at least level in the 4th chess world championship against Steinitz 1892 (the rematch against Steinitz) until he blundered in a won position. Game 23.
regarding the Dubov-Ian case, if you pay attention to the whole story behind that draw, you get the real reason why they did what they did(spoiler alert: they demonstrated their disrespect to the commitee of the juree )
Tbh pre-arranged draws have always been a part of chess. Nepo and Dubov just did it too obvious. And also this was a way to show their disagreement with bad organisation of the tournament
Wouldn't be surprised if there was a mass collusion to get the elo rankings filled with Soviets. The Russian chess school collapsed together with the USSR.
The wc is only one person… I don’t think nationality enters in to it. Yes you need a supportive edifice or you will be prohibited materially but the wc will be the best chess player in the world period, regardless of where they are from providing that that individual finds the support they need which many countries can provide not just Russia. Case in point Magnus. Norway is not a particularly strong chess nation, he’s just the best. Vishy too, India had never even had a grandmaster before him. He was just the best at the time. It only takes one person. I don’t think the fact that they got runner up in the last two WC’s means that they have fallen, that ultimately boils down to the quality of the individuals and there’s nothing Russia as a whole can do about that.
Take two similarly sized countries. In one, only a small percentage play chess and it's not prestigious. In the other, it's a popular game and considered prestigious. Now it's true that the WC could come from either, but it's a question of probabilities.
@@oliversissonphone6143 Yeah I know I think I pretty much covered that, I just think that to say they have fallen when it might simply be that the lesser of two probabilities has prevailed this time is a bit rash especially since they have had the last two runners up in Nepo.
Kramnik entered a tournament, he lost his first game and immediately complained “he’s definitely cheating!” The arbiter said “Vladimir, it's a simul and you were playing yourself!” Kramnik narrowed his eyes and muttered, “Even I don’t trust me these days…”
You don't mention one factor that existed in USSR and still exists. Soviet chess school had many Jewish players, whose life was dedicated to proving that Jews are more clever than Russians. The government wanted Russians to represent the USSR. But Russians were not as much motivated themselves as Jews. In the recent years, you can see how many Russian Jewish players opposed the government openly and fled from Russia. Noteworthy is the fact that a "Jew" in Russia is not the same as outside, so these players are still considered Russians. For example, Kortchnoi, Kasparov, Kramnik and Nepomniachtchi are Jews by Russian classification, but Spasski, Karpov and Kariakin are not.
It is all confusing for a larger audience, since you didn’t differentiate between ethnicity, religion and citizenship. You are right, there is a disproportionate representation of people with Jewish ancestry among top Russian chess players, and tbh among all Russian intellectual fields, it’s a very good cultural thing. My father was from a family of Jewish descent in Russia, they converted to Christianity. People like them would always force their children to study a lot, play musical instruments, play chess and paint, it’s a thing that a child must have no free time and several intellectual hobbies. It’s like Asian Americans these days. Children of soviet Jewish families were forced by their parents to be more intellectual than their peers to overcome discrimination and study at the universities. Being of Jewish descent ethnically is not the same as to be a Jew by religion and it doesn’t prevent one from being culturally Russian. Most Russian Jews are atheist or Christian. Russian Empire is where historically Ashkenazi Jews used to live since migrated from the Western Europe.
Is not 😂 how about Soviet gratmaster from Latvia Mikhail Tal . Even the Muslim country of Uzbekistan in Central Asia has Rustam Kasimdzhanov Marking the bottom of chess spread evenly throughout the Soviet Union
It's very simple. The USSR. That's the answer. People forget the USSR was the world power alongside America, nobody else was close. They both dominated in almost every field. The USSR was really good at... well, most things i guess, and in there was chess. Also it helps a lot that there was basically no consumerism and vain entertainment, so people focused a lot in sports and other such activities. After the USSR dissolved, the entire thing changed, Russian is nothing even resembling what the USSR was or how it used to work. Everything changed. For that reason, and the fact that there were MANY other countries in the Union, it's kinda silly to compare both like this.
soon india is going to be the one synonymous with chess, after the olympiad record, gukesh's performance at candidates, and even maybe the world championship (note the maybe!)
This a weird bias. The kramnik cheating accusations were a total joke and everyone knew it. Also the nepo dubov draw was a protest against some playing conditions.
Fall? That's a bit harsh isen't it? Russia is still pretty strong on the world stage and Ian Nepomniachtchi probably would have been world champion if not for Magnus Carlsen.
Russians were so salty, they stopped awarding chess oscar once Magnus won his 5th time. They feared that Magnus will win atleast 10 more times if they still handed the awards😂😂😂
Why is Karyakin support of Russian effort in Ukrainian war unethic? I don't understand. If I would be Russian citizen, I would also support defence of my country. You should leave politics out of chess.
Clarification: Kramnik didn’t accuse Hikaru personally. He said that someone is cheating. So, he leaves option that Hikaru’s opponents had inflated ratings that they got through cheating and Hikaru played legitimately.
No he accused hikaru directly by stating and using his records and match results, which at that time only hikaru achieved that winning streak. Even in his recent post match interview with jospem he wanted to play hikaru in clash of claims 2 (source gothamchess recent video) because he is that delusional and thinking hikaru is cheating online, stop spreading false info to try and makes kramnik looks like some sorts of missunderstand hero while he is not.
Honestly, FIDE is just being racist at this point and pandering, I don't like how political chess has become; but that is just me, others seem to love dividing and invading each other.
Russia school in general has no start or future beyond normal 2400elo without the dutch blood in their race... tzar stalin kasparov tal etc...or as it is the saying in the people language the god prophets help them out of normal chess vision!
Well Soviet Union is not russia. Its 15 countries colonized by moscow and squeezed all the talent out of them. Also its not really amazing when brutal dicktatorships achieve anything really . Its like those 3 year old North Korean dancers or guitar players, its forced achievement to be an Monarch monkey and really just sad overall. Its only natural while this talent pool shrugged russia got nothing to replace them with.
Man, colonization is not the same as gathering nations for the one country. If Georgia was colonized, why was a big part of soviet government Georgian including Stalin? Looks like you haven't really studied the subject
@@thesamum6951 Thats very typical pro-moscow colonization arguments. "Gathering of conquered countries " and totally not a colonial empire - occurred non-volonerally through wars of conquest. UNR lost war for independence for example and had government in exile . Traitors of Georgia or Ukraine in moscow colonial government doesn't mean they were pro Ukraine or pro Georgia . Just means they were power hungry traitors.
@@dukenukem8381 If Moscow was colonising Ukraine for example, why would they have given the richest part (Donbas) to Ukraine? Why did they later give Crimea to Ukraine? They made Ukraine into a viable and rich country. Why would a coloniser try to make its colonies strong, prosperous and independent? Is this how the Europeans treated Africa? Your arguments don't hold water and are typical arguments of the European and anglosaxon colonisers. All they can do is project but anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows who are the actual colonisers and that when they accuse others (outside NATO) of colonising it's a pile of bs.
@@ntf5211 No, moscow clearly colonized indigenous peoples replacing their language , exploiting resources , erasing local culture deporting people on purpose. While local people had no say in central government and were executed if they tried to gain independence by MILLIONS . Its book definition of colonialism. If someone else does the similar colonial crime doesn't mean it justifies what moscow did. Thats just whataboutism deflection.
@@thesamum6951 to be fair that argument is kinda hard to swallow when Moscow was so bad at managing the countries they lead that 90% of them just went straight to war against communism
This is interesting, because, Garry Kasparov, who was considered to be the greatest chess player of all time, publically rebelled against the Soviet system like multiple times. One was when he was on stage, and another was when he put a new Russian flag, symbolizing his rebellion against the USSR. The Kasparov-Karpov rivalry became the greatest not just due to their playing styles but also due to the political climate at that time.
Kasparov is an idiot.
Kasparov is an ungrateful traitor to the Russian people. They saw through his cheap attempts to gain office, and his attempts to undermine Russia by siding with their enemies.
Truth is that in Russia true intellectuals have always been mostly dissidents, including chess players and famous writers, musicians etc. All because the political regime in USSR and in modern Putin’s Russia is brutal and anti-human. So obviously top chess players were and are open or undercover dissidents. Karpov was more like exception among the chess players to be a loyalist. Nowadays only Karjakin is loyal to Putin, while Nepo, Dubov, Grishuk and many others signed a petition of chess players against the war in 2022.
@@elena__sh The only anti-human system in the world is the western world that struggles to even identify what a woman is, glory Russia!
Yeah, it's also funny because the person who helped him get to the national and international stage was the high-ranking CPSU member Geydar Aliev. So it's always funny to watch him 'rebel' against the system which greatly contributed to his accomplishments.
Personally, I don't think Russian chess fell off, it's just that the other schools of chess rose up or that other countries caught up and managed to produce players at the top level (like the U.S., China, and India). And then there's Magnus Carlsen.
But there were players like Kasparov, Karpov, Kramnik, Petrosian. Who of the russian players today can be compared to them?
@@PsychologyAttack kramnik is a joke nowadays even in his recent match with jospem he makes any excuses everytime
@@lordtouchme77 I was talking about peak Kramnik which was in 90 - 2000.
By the way, what are you talking about?
In the recent match there were constant lags which both arbiters and even Jospem acknowledged. Complaining about that is not making excuses.
@@PsychologyAttack russia win most world test championships 20.no other country win
@@manjusingh-ri7uf There are distinctions to be made between Russia and USSR, but I get you.
Except for Fischer's championship, the Russians owned the world chess stage up and down the ranks for several decades.
The Internet and chess engines made the difference. Had Magnus Carlsen been alive in 1950, he probably wouldn't have been World Champion because he wouldn't have had access to the material and resources that Soviet players did. Bobby Fischer had to teach himself Russian, and he somehow was able to get Soviet chess material to study. Today, anyone with an Internet connection has access to all the chess games ever played. They can play other top players to hone their skills. And the top-rated chess engine is free. This has levelled the playing field. There is no built in Soviet advantage any more. But just by pure numbers, it is like India will inherit from the Soviet Union as the leading chess nation for the next few decades. However, India's dominance is unlikely to be as great as that enjoyed by the Soviet Union in the 20th century just because chess has been changed forever.
To be clear, Kramnik was not using the “bathroom” every room, he was using the “rest room,” which in chess tournaments in European countries refers to the “sitting room” or “waiting room” that every top level chess tournament has - not the bathroom. That is often misquoted/incorrectly translated.
GM Ben Finegold has confirmed on many occasions that Kramnik used the “rest room” every turn because he was hiding the fact that he was smoking from his wife.
Noooooo nooooo 😆 my guy got into one of the biggest chess scandals because he was affraid his wife will find out he went on smoke breaks?🤣🤣🤣
Chigorin was the first truly strong russian chess player.
Yes. For instance he was at least level in the 4th chess world championship against Steinitz 1892 (the rematch against Steinitz) until he blundered in a won position. Game 23.
regarding the Dubov-Ian case, if you pay attention to the whole story behind that draw, you get the real reason why they did what they did(spoiler alert: they demonstrated their disrespect to the commitee of the juree
)
Tbh pre-arranged draws have always been a part of chess. Nepo and Dubov just did it too obvious. And also this was a way to show their disagreement with bad organisation of the tournament
Yea if you are going to play a prearranged draw just play the Berlin so it’s not so obvious
@@Dead_Anteater tbf the Berlin might be the most obvious way to draw a game
@@rolandorban6248It's still a.proper.chess game at the end of the day and probably less obvious than 2 knights dancing on the board. 😂
In the top 25 Elo-rated players there are only 3 Russians left nowadays. In the 70s and 80s they would have at least 5 in the top 10 only.
Wouldn't be surprised if there was a mass collusion to get the elo rankings filled with Soviets. The Russian chess school collapsed together with the USSR.
The wc is only one person… I don’t think nationality enters in to it. Yes you need a supportive edifice or you will be prohibited materially but the wc will be the best chess player in the world period, regardless of where they are from providing that that individual finds the support they need which many countries can provide not just Russia. Case in point Magnus. Norway is not a particularly strong chess nation, he’s just the best. Vishy too, India had never even had a grandmaster before him. He was just the best at the time. It only takes one person. I don’t think the fact that they got runner up in the last two WC’s means that they have fallen, that ultimately boils down to the quality of the individuals and there’s nothing Russia as a whole can do about that.
Take two similarly sized countries. In one, only a small percentage play chess and it's not prestigious. In the other, it's a popular game and considered prestigious. Now it's true that the WC could come from either, but it's a question of probabilities.
@@oliversissonphone6143 Yeah I know I think I pretty much covered that, I just think that to say they have fallen when it might simply be that the lesser of two probabilities has prevailed this time is a bit rash especially since they have had the last two runners up in Nepo.
Kramnik entered a tournament, he lost his first game and immediately complained “he’s definitely cheating!”
The arbiter said “Vladimir, it's a simul and you were playing yourself!”
Kramnik narrowed his eyes and muttered, “Even I don’t trust me these days…”
can you do the downfall of English/British chess next please
Lol. Yeah like downfall of Icelandic cricket.
How can there be a downfall? I can't even remember a british chess player.
@@i3_13 Anthony Miles, Nigel Short, Mickey Adams...
@@stefan4159Good players but insignificant compared to the likes of Kasparov, Karpov.
You have to be kidding
You don't mention one factor that existed in USSR and still exists. Soviet chess school had many Jewish players, whose life was dedicated to proving that Jews are more clever than Russians. The government wanted Russians to represent the USSR. But Russians were not as much motivated themselves as Jews. In the recent years, you can see how many Russian Jewish players opposed the government openly and fled from Russia. Noteworthy is the fact that a "Jew" in Russia is not the same as outside, so these players are still considered Russians. For example, Kortchnoi, Kasparov, Kramnik and Nepomniachtchi are Jews by Russian classification, but Spasski, Karpov and Kariakin are not.
what
@@MrFackoffline Check it, it a fact.
It is all confusing for a larger audience, since you didn’t differentiate between ethnicity, religion and citizenship.
You are right, there is a disproportionate representation of people with Jewish ancestry among top Russian chess players, and tbh among all Russian intellectual fields, it’s a very good cultural thing. My father was from a family of Jewish descent in Russia, they converted to Christianity. People like them would always force their children to study a lot, play musical instruments, play chess and paint, it’s a thing that a child must have no free time and several intellectual hobbies. It’s like Asian Americans these days. Children of soviet Jewish families were forced by their parents to be more intellectual than their peers to overcome discrimination and study at the universities.
Being of Jewish descent ethnically is not the same as to be a Jew by religion and it doesn’t prevent one from being culturally Russian. Most Russian Jews are atheist or Christian. Russian Empire is where historically Ashkenazi Jews used to live since migrated from the Western Europe.
Is not 😂 how about Soviet gratmaster from Latvia Mikhail Tal .
Even the Muslim country of Uzbekistan in Central Asia has Rustam Kasimdzhanov Marking the bottom of chess spread evenly throughout the Soviet Union
And Armenia has the highest number of gratmasters per capital. Stop spreading misinformation
SO underrated video
It's very simple. The USSR. That's the answer. People forget the USSR was the world power alongside America, nobody else was close. They both dominated in almost every field. The USSR was really good at... well, most things i guess, and in there was chess. Also it helps a lot that there was basically no consumerism and vain entertainment, so people focused a lot in sports and other such activities. After the USSR dissolved, the entire thing changed, Russian is nothing even resembling what the USSR was or how it used to work. Everything changed. For that reason, and the fact that there were MANY other countries in the Union, it's kinda silly to compare both like this.
Its Soviet Onion not Soviet Union. What does even union mean.
soon india is going to be the one synonymous with chess, after the olympiad record, gukesh's performance at candidates, and even maybe the world championship (note the maybe!)
Gukesh did win the WCC in one of the most dramatic ways
Well told story, great editing. I had my laugh of the week over the Bogojubow pronunciation. Sub won.
You've spelled his name, like "the Godf**ker". And you're probably right :)
Loooool I did!@@hewkey
This a weird bias. The kramnik cheating accusations were a total joke and everyone knew it. Also the nepo dubov draw was a protest against some playing conditions.
Fall? That's a bit harsh isen't it? Russia is still pretty strong on the world stage and Ian Nepomniachtchi probably would have been world champion if not for Magnus Carlsen.
and if not for Ding Liren
a bit slower talking would have made a bit more fun....
Mikhal Tal wasn’t Russian! 😂 he’s Latvian
Joe Biden wasn't American he was Irish
It was under Soviet Union at that time
@@anilbista7445The Soviet Union wasn’t just Russia.
@@anilbista7445 Soviet union not all Russia. Is like call Tesla as Jerman because he born in Austria empire
he's pure Jew
Love it thank you
The thing is they are overshadowed by some 17 yr old Chinese or some 15 yr old chinese
great video bro, thanks
Russians were so salty, they stopped awarding chess oscar once Magnus won his 5th time. They feared that Magnus will win atleast 10 more times if they still handed the awards😂😂😂
Why is Karyakin support of Russian effort in Ukrainian war unethic? I don't understand. If I would be Russian citizen, I would also support defence of my country. You should leave politics out of chess.
I mean it is unethical cuz nobody wanted Russia to attack Ukrain its kinda that simple
bro that's a great video you deserved so much more views
Nah, Russia reigns supreme in chess. They aren't allowed to play as Russia, that's all. So many super GMs are Russian...
True, but they’re a husk of what they once were. Only one Russian in the top ten, and the last World Chess Championship victory occurring in 2006.
The quality is insane man, hope your channel grows! Subbed👍
Magnus Carlsen is like Bobby Fischer
Clarification: Kramnik didn’t accuse Hikaru personally. He said that someone is cheating. So, he leaves option that Hikaru’s opponents had inflated ratings that they got through cheating and Hikaru played legitimately.
No he accused hikaru directly by stating and using his records and match results, which at that time only hikaru achieved that winning streak. Even in his recent post match interview with jospem he wanted to play hikaru in clash of claims 2 (source gothamchess recent video) because he is that delusional and thinking hikaru is cheating online, stop spreading false info to try and makes kramnik looks like some sorts of missunderstand hero while he is not.
What is that kid name who won?
It is draw right??
Everything started fallen after Bobby Fischer.
They invited Bogoljubov from where? Sounds like he was a foreigner.
Germany, funnily enough
kramnik kinda sealed the deal for next few years
quality content
most young prefer to play cs and dota it seems
There is no Russian chess and never was but there was always SSSR chess that dominated the world .
Also, content not living up to its title
Wrong map used
Context
1991 год-конец России и русского народа!
Karjakim was born in Ukraine
Honestly, FIDE is just being racist at this point and pandering, I don't like how political chess has become; but that is just me, others seem to love dividing and invading each other.
Russia school in general has no start or future beyond normal 2400elo without the dutch blood in their race... tzar stalin kasparov tal etc...or as it is the saying in the people language the god prophets help them out of normal chess vision!
lol
Dutch are usually very tall. Stalin, Kasparov, Tal were not tall. Why do you say they had Dutch blood?
@@artichoke60045 wasn't Tal called the magician of Riga? How is he considered Russian? Am I missing something about his life?
Well Soviet Union is not russia. Its 15 countries colonized by moscow and squeezed all the talent out of them. Also its not really amazing when brutal dicktatorships achieve anything really .
Its like those 3 year old North Korean dancers or guitar players, its forced achievement to be an Monarch monkey and really just sad overall.
Its only natural while this talent pool shrugged russia got nothing to replace them with.
Man, colonization is not the same as gathering nations for the one country. If Georgia was colonized, why was a big part of soviet government Georgian including Stalin? Looks like you haven't really studied the subject
@@thesamum6951 Thats very typical pro-moscow colonization arguments.
"Gathering of conquered countries " and totally not a colonial empire - occurred non-volonerally through wars of conquest. UNR lost war for independence for example and had government in exile . Traitors of Georgia or Ukraine in moscow colonial government doesn't mean they were pro Ukraine or pro Georgia . Just means they were power hungry traitors.
@@dukenukem8381 If Moscow was colonising Ukraine for example, why would they have given the richest part (Donbas) to Ukraine? Why did they later give Crimea to Ukraine? They made Ukraine into a viable and rich country. Why would a coloniser try to make its colonies strong, prosperous and independent? Is this how the Europeans treated Africa? Your arguments don't hold water and are typical arguments of the European and anglosaxon colonisers. All they can do is project but anyone with 2 brain cells to rub together knows who are the actual colonisers and that when they accuse others (outside NATO) of colonising it's a pile of bs.
@@ntf5211 No, moscow clearly colonized indigenous peoples replacing their language , exploiting resources , erasing local culture deporting people on purpose. While local people had no say in central government and were executed if they tried to gain independence by MILLIONS . Its book definition of colonialism.
If someone else does the similar colonial crime doesn't mean it justifies what moscow did. Thats just whataboutism deflection.
@@thesamum6951 to be fair that argument is kinda hard to swallow when Moscow was so bad at managing the countries they lead that 90% of them just went straight to war against communism