I once TRS a 5.9 and when I got to the middle ledge I realized to my horror that both of my devices were unlocked. The sound of both micro trax clicking shut made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. From now on, I always weight my devices before climbing a route. Always triple check your systems folks.
Holy moly! On the same note, most deaths in highlining have been from people who thought they were tied in but were not. The gear works but it's these situations where making it as screw up proof as possible is ideal. That's why Brent makes his devices unable to be held open.
I had a similar instance where I was only using one micro trax (yes yes redundancy is cool) and realized at the top of a 150' pitch that the tail from my chalk bag had slipped into the microtrax exactly as shown in this video and would have just let me slip through the device down to my last stopper knot maybe 60' below. Definitely a pants filler and something to make you step back and examine your systems more closely.
Thoughts on using a Nano Traxion as a top device with a Micro Traxion for the bottom device? As I'm currently using the Camp lift on the top and micro Traxion on the bottom. Great video for TRS! Much love!
Been TR soloing since shortly after I began climbing 12 years ago due to my love of solitude in the mountains as well as lack of partners. This channel is a treasure for folks hoping to get into it, as is this gentleman who started AVANT climbing. Ive seen so many sketchy practices of rope soloists out there. Hoping this video gets a million views.
I started watching him years ago before I was even remotely interested in climbjmg, and am in same boat as you I like being alone out there, Ryan's vids are like the Bible for being safe out there lol
Heck, I only climb flat, level, and plumb video walls and get a kick out of it. Hard Is Easy has some good content. I saw another channel’s (Guilty of Treeson) video with a sketchy tree where he used a secondary system and tied in with a cheap non-rated carabiner in case things went sideways. Never thought about that technique. Better than getting torn in half by your harness though.
Thanks for the great video. When I project I usually use a two strand setup. One strand with the Micro Trax and the second strand pre-rigged with a Grigri. When holding the Micro Trax up with the bungee cord there is no interference between the two strands. When climbing up I pull the slack out on the "Grigri" strand from time to time and tie a slip knot below. When on the crux (or at the section I want to project) I don't care about the slack on the Grigri side anymore.... Whith this setup I can rapiddly change between climbing and rappelling. For rapelling just clip an ascender to the second strand and pull on it, weight the Grigri, disengage the Micro Trax, unclip the ascender and go down a few meters. When start climbing again just engage the Micro Trax again and go on climbing. I tend to see converting between climbing and rapelling as the biggest danger. I try to avoid this as much as possible. However, I only use one Micro Trax on the first rope. I consider the second strand with the Grigri as redundancy.
I have no experience of TRS, but after watching this video, your method sounds like the better one to me 🤔 maybe not if the climbing is so intense that you cannot feed the grigri and tie stopper knots for too long a stretch ?
This is probably the best video out there on TRS! I really wish I had this as a resource two years ago when I was learning how to do it! Excited to see the LRS version. Thanks for putting so much time into these.
Yeah they explained the redirect/rope protection very well. When i started 7 yrs ago I ruined a rope within 20 days out because of not protecting edges like an idiot. Also good for them to explain transition to rappel midpitch. Most important thing to know
That slipknot trick for re-fixing is genius, wish I had known that years ago. In fact, I wish this video had existed when I learned TRS back in 2020! Great work fellas.
Thanks Ryan and Brent for the lovely and informative video. I have a couple of questions which I'd love to hear discussed more in-depth: 1- the pros and cons of using a static rope vs dynamic rope 2- using a chest harness (made of a sling and a couple of overhand knots) as a way to attach to the top device instead of the neck lanyard (maybe Big Bungee™ isn't the most biased source on this question 😂) Thanks again
Loved it guys! best video yet on TRS. I top rope solo a lot on a Croll and a Spoc. Thank you for teaching this knot that is easy to pop out. I always use rope protectors and Im happy with it. 1,2m protectors with velcro cover everything, you can take them off by pulling it down against the Croll. I dont carry an ascender for transitioning like you did. Your method looks safer, but I use a technique to jam the rope in my feet to be able to stand up and unweight the Croll which I can then remove quickly and easily and sit back on the Grigri. The Croll doesnt require you to remove the carabiner either. To project some moves I use this pre-cross foot technique to stand on the rope and release each device one at a time and gradually slide them down the rope.
As someone who almost only does TRS. The Taz Lov is worth it, no question. Always have an ascender on you for self rescue or just when your two devices get jammed together and you need to unweight them. I honestly prefer two slings in X on my chest to a neck bungee, so you can lean back on the capture device when resting. And finally to avoid feeling the weight that you've added to the bottom, set it on the ground, don't hang it way up high. It'll lift up and pull through if it needs to, and only as much as it needs to. Protip, a scuba weight in a harness bag works great. Nice vid. Would like to see more of the Sterling 10mm Safety Pro breaking at some point. Curious how strong that nylon core it has is.
Well done! Nice to see folks talking about how your counterweight pulls on your body when traversing or even on overhanging climbing without a back clip. And super nice to have someone talk about your counterweight resting on the ground or a ledge and introducing slack into the system. And most importantly, the danger of slack in the system. TRS is a broad topic with many solutions in many different situations, you’ll probably get another thousand comments out of this one! Thanks guys
TAZ Lov2 as Primary and RollNLock as Backup is by far the best combo. And I’ve literally tried them all. Yes, the Lov2 is expensive and yes it has a hard to find sweatspot for lowering. But you CAN lower with it without any change to the system at all and it still glides up the rope just like a Micro Trax. The RollNLock is the perfect backup for it, because you don’t have to remove it for lowering. The cam can be disengaged TEMPORARILY with just 2 fingers while lowering with the other hand on the Lov2. If something were to happen, the RnL immediately grabs once you let the 2 fingers go. Try doing that with a Micro Trax; I got my finger caught in the teeth and it hurt my finger pretty badly. Pretty much impossible with the RnL. The RnL can’t be disengaged by the Lov2 pressing on it if it were to fail. Lov2 needs roughly 20cm pivot to engage, which I find really good as it gives you some leeway when you messed up a move and need to „downclimb“ ever so slightly. Also Lov2 can be pushed down with one hand easily if you have to downclimb more than that. The RnL can also be easily disengaged and pushed down with one hand. So again: With this combo you set it up on the ground, then free climb 5 meters, lower, climb again, lower, climb again, so on and so forth, WITHOUT any change to the system. I don’t even bring a GriGri anymore when I go TRS as I can rap on the Lov2 just as fine. I appreciate the video and learned quite a few nifty details. Still, I am surprised how rarely the Lov2 is mentioned in TRS videos.
Great feedback. Behind the scenes dialogue we had were these points: *Neither one of us have touched one before so no sense in talking about stuff we don't know *It's easy to fall in the weeds and this was to focus on Brent's way of TRS. If I were to want to rehearse a section over and over, I'd very likely get a Taz Lov *We aimed to keep this TRS video within spec. Taz Lov2 is 10-11mm ropes. Rarely do climbers use those diameters though I'm sure it's super good enough for smaller diameters (guessing, never touched one before). Why Lov2? I hear a lot of people talk about Lov3. What's your thoughts between the 2?
@@HowNOT2 The only difference between 2 and 3 is that the closing plate can be opened without taking the Biner out. I personally found that sketchy back when I started to look into it. In TRS, once the system is set, I like that practically nothing can go wrong. Dropping the Lov2 is not a concern to me as I have it attached to my chest harness anyways AND dont ever open the system.
@@HowNOT2 Fair point with the rope thickness; after trying TRS on my normal 9.5mm dynamic rope, I immediately ordered an 11mm static with extra robust sheeth. The stretch and bouncyness was just too much. That being said: Lov2 seems to grab my 9.5 just fine. And since the device is held up, there is no dynamic fall at all anyways, so I'd dare to say home testing is sufficient here. But yes: it's rated for 10-11mm A dedicated rope for TRS is absolutely worth it in my opinion. The experience is amazing. If you want I could show you and provide some footage. I'm a climbing photographer and my action cams would love to be used again 😁
Got a TAZ Lov2 in a sale and absolutely love it (pun not intended). I use it with a Spoc or MicroTrax as a backup, which feels super safe, but makes it a bit harder to go down a bit. I played around a bit and found a way to push the Spoc open when lowering. It's not great though. So I just take it off at the top if I do laps. For rehearsing some moves it felt okay this way. As the TAZ has no lockout I also feel fine to be able to lock the secondary device and just check every time I leave the ground.
This is a great video! One setup that's nice with the Grigri is to do a 2 rope TRS - one is a self-feeding progress capture like a Microtraxion, and the other is a Grigri you pull slack through, with less need to tie backup knots than just the Grigri by itself. I climb short routes so I find it more helpful to do setups with an easy transition to descent.
Great explanations of not a tutorial. I have done some solo top roping with tree gear. Starting at the top, I repel down and place protection on the rope. At the bottom, I coil excess rope for weight. The main difference in my system is the devices. I climb with a Lov2, Rope Runner, or Hitch Hiker instead of two cams. This allows ascending and descending in one device. I'm excited to see more of this content.
Thanks for putting out this great video! I personally like to use a chest ascender for the top device. I use a short open sling girth hitched to the belay loop and quicklink attaching that to the chest ascender to give further vertical separation, then a homebrew knockoff of the Petzl Torse to keep it high and upright. I can't accidentally drop it. Its easy to pop it on and off one handed. I usually use a Roll n Lock or Microtraxion for the bottom device. With the vertical separation its pretty smooth to pop the GriGri on below everything, take off the Roll n Lock or Microtraxion, take up slack and hang on the GriGri, then pop the rope out of the chest ascender... I have been trying out the Camp Turbochest recently but can't really notice much of a difference over the Petzl Croll S that I was using before. I just got a Taz Lov 3 so I'll be playing around with using it as the 2nd device... it is kinda huge and heavy. I think that for me, it may not be the savior that many seem to claim it is. Its hard to cover all bases, but when I'm teaching friends how to TR solo, something I put more emphasis on (beyond what you covered very well in the vid) is being ready to get out of a jam. Have some extra gear with you and know how to use it should you drop a device. IE double length sling to make friction hitch + footloop or quick 3:1 MA (or other) system, know how to build and use a carabiner brake to rappel or a rap on a munter hitch if you drop your GriGri, practice transitioning to ascending and descending if you find yourself completely free hanging, know what to do if you are free hanging and drop your foot loop, etc... TR solo with friends is tons of fun. Very little down time with belaying. Easy to get a lot of pitches. Very fun to do variations of a pitch climbing more to the left or right than you would usually be constrained due to bolt placement or availability of gear, etc...
The best video to TRS! Thanx a lot! I wish i‘ve seen it yesrs ago. I forgot once to lock the Micro-Traxion. Its possible to modify it to not being kept open. Great work!!
I’ve been reluctant to get into TRS for a while but this video has finally convinced me to get after it. Such a great analysis. I will be buying a neck lanyard as a thank you for imparting this knowledge!!
Good video. Another benefit of 2 strands is less stretch, which makes dynamic ropes practical, which reduces the fall factor concerns, which makes the annoying neck bungie less important.
Great video, very constructive and helpful. Better than a Netflix series. Thx for the tips and explanations on things to watch for. You guys rock, keep it up!
Thank you for this video that was perfect for me as I'm looking for ways to be able to practice on my own. You are always great at asking the Qs needed and easy to listen to and understand, the same goes for Brent too! The perfect mix of live demonstrations combined with all that crazy testing makes me a huge fan of your channel. Great work thnx =)
invaluable knowledge for those interested in learning safely to decie whether to do it, and if yes how to... the failure modes and sheat damage discussion is expecially important and greatly appreciate your testing... i personally want to learn top solo for multipitching (i already do some lead solo on single pitch) as an alternative to jumaring up when cleaning. edit: forgot to mention that the jokes and "Big Bungee" conspiracy stuff was hilarious!
Great to have more info out there for people around TRS. I personally use a TAZ lov2 & CT roll n lock on a static rope. Always found them to be a really great combo, Obviously the TAZ lov2 & lov3 are expensive pieces of gear but with its ease of use and ability to descend id say its well worth the money. The only thing I would add as an issue I had with the roll n lock is with a smaller screwgate carabiner the carabiner itself could spin itself around and the screwgate can jam the roll n lock. Obviously I have a dedicated carabiner for it now which completely solves the issue.
The final video on TRS, thank so much guys 🤩 you really cleared all my doubts. The re-setting anchor to avoid abrasion is genius, as well as the one-hand release knot. So excited for the LRS one, too! 🤩 P.s. MicroTrax and Epoc in the cart waiting for my next paycheck😄
Really great video, one of your best. Beginner climber here, intrigued by TRS and LRS. You broke it down really simply here, no assumptions or gatekeeping, and really appreciate the serious approach to safety.
So much interesting, as a speleologist it seems so fun to use all techniques and instruments which I already use during ascent, I wanna try as soon as possible.
Great video btw. I might add that the most dangerous part of TRS is making mistakes. You are climbing solo, so nobody to check you. The two situations to most be aware off are: 1. Setting up the anchor (near the edge of the cliff). You might want to attach/rappel from a tree or something to get close to the edge. Mind fall factor two if you think you can clip a sling on the anchor if it is over the edge. 2. Transitions. Double check everything. You can make it less dangerous but more costly with a simpler system like the Taz Lov.
I had never really considered doing this until I started ice climbing. It’s just that much harder to find buddies to go out into the freezing cold and flog a wall of ice. I seriously started looking into this just this last winter.
Taz lov 3 is the way! Yes it's expensive, but it feeds like a dream and is 50x better for working sections than ascender/grigri/reattaching shenanigans. I wouldn't be caught dead lugging a 10mm rope around for leading but if you're specifically going TRSing a 10mm rope for it is very reasonable. It's actually certified down to 9.5mm for brake assist. I've used it on 9mm (with a microtrax backup) and it has always been fine for me.
I have a dedicated TRS/practice microtrax. I filed off little peg that holds the cam open. I also polished the area so no rough spots, which was probably needless. It's easy to do but obviously after, you physically can't lock it open. I once did have one lock open by pressing firmly on it incidentally (I was using 2! So it only made me poop my pants a little) so I decided to mod it.
I definitely use a thicker rope for abrasion and it works better with the tas lov 3. I use a taslov because you can repel on it without removing anything, I back it up with a micro traction that I've modified so it can't lock open so I hold I open with my thumb while repelling. The main benefit of the taslov is its easy to go down and up. The downside is the price size and weight.
About the risk of the micro-trax to be disengaged, you mention racking the device. Imh experience, the most likely situation is when you disengage for rappelling while leaving the device on the rope... and then ascend right back, forgetting to re-engage (and re-test) the rope-grab. This has more chances of happenning if you go down with the same device that you use upwards, with a Lov2 for instance (which you haven't tried).
About 10 comments above this one, someone left both devices open when they left the ground. It can happen there or during mid rope transitions. I will try the Lov2 and Lov3 but the size of device, price and diameter of ropes required make it less commonly used and therefore less commonly talked about. If the same design was made smaller for ropes climbers used and $150, yes, that would be magical.
@@HowNOT2 I agree with you that the best combo for long continuous climbing is 2 pulleys (RnL+Micro for me personally). But when I see your 53" mid-pitch transition (and Brent was fast!) I definitely prefer my Lov2+RnL combo (works fine on 8.9mm) for projecting : It's worth the price (300€ total in FR) ! Btw just saw that the microtrax+rollnlock are at 140+110€ ! Damn pricey in the US (2x FR prices) !!!...
Actually got the Lov2 for below 150€ on sale in Europe (which made it a no brainer). During climbing it doesn't bother me at all. Feeds super nice and I don't really mind the maybe 300 grams extra weight. It's just maybe something you don't always throw into your climbing pack, because you might rehearse a climb in TRS mode. I mostly just bring it anyway though. TRS is also super nice, to help a less experienced friend figure something out or just be there and encourage them, if you are a group of 3.
A Micro Traction on sling trailing below Neox is great for quick laps on near vertical terrain, Micro will act as stopper knot if Neox slips. And is also a backup incase total failure of Neox. needs to be on shoulder length sling to stay clear of Neox though. It's my new favorite setup for training because Neox stays attached entire time and not switching devices at top is safer in my opinion. Also I do laps with no rest, so I just remove micro and zip down then put Micro back on and climb. Neox feeds well enough for training laps but obviously adds some friction so not as good for trying limit moves. I used to use GriGri with no backup but it added a lot more friction. With enough rope weight Neox has always locked up but micro backup makes me completely confident. Hang shoes or extra rope at bottom and it will feed well. DON'T USE WITHOUT BACKUP! oh I also purchased all Avant Climbings little do dads and use them all! Thanks Brent for coming up with and making all that cool stuff!
Great video. Clove hitch rebelay is also feasible. The real challenge on TRS is overhanging routes which Dave Macleod covers making it look far too easy. I'd love to see Brent's suggestions on those.
Most people I climb with refer to this as "The Dark Arts". Frankly I've used worse looking systems in extremis for jugging up a rope (pairs of prussiks etc). I've worked a few systems for TRS and they're pretty sound! Sadly availability of myself and people I trust rarely line up. I use a pair of MTraxs and a chest harness with a short bungee cos I don't like putting anything round my neck. Works well for me.
great video, i love the use of a second device as a backup, but i would love to see it above the first device as if it were to cut the rope the "backup" would be cut off below it. nmy thought would be to use a small hollow block, some kind of prusick to ride above the protraction. I have done this myself tho i have no clue if its effective and would love to see some tests
I love TR Solo, i use a Taz Lov. it feeds beautify. It was $300 or something... but the amount of time you save switching from a micro-trax to a gri gri, is substantial... and you can climb warmup routes with way less gear. His weight argument I don't think works, at all. Id rather climb with less stuff and just one, sort of, heavy device. You dont even need a hand ascender if you're that concerned about weight, use a prusik and sling. AND with the taz there is no function that allows it not engage. A rabbit-ear fig 8 also eliminates 2 carabiners if you have mussys.
People talk about rope solo climbing like it’s super dangerous and frown when you say it like you do it, as if you’ve got a death wish. The truth is it’s literally what people who climb for a living in the rigging and rope access industry do every day. It’s really no different to jumaring up a rope except really you are just dragging the jumar with you instead of fully weighting it, as you use the rock as your ladder. Great video by the way as always!
I think because it gets lumped in with LRS, which can be dangerous, but TRS is super safe. I personally feel more safe on TRS than regular top rope because I'm fully responsible for my safety, instead of trusting someone else.
Rope solo is dangerous for people prone to inattention - think Autobelay accidents. I'm guessing rope access doesn't have those people, but climbing does. Have an honest conversation with yourself about how consistently you stay attentive. Partnered climbing gives opportunities to see how often you make dumb mistakes that partners catch for you. You also need self-rescue skills like transitioning from climbing to rappelling. Ideally all climbers should have them, but in partnered climbing you could go a long time without them. In roped solo they come up sooner.
Rope access trains people to not fall and to absorb shock if they do. Climbers fall for fun and don't think it's a problem, which it is not most of the time, even with teeth, if there is enough dynamic rope in the system. Rope access has force limiters and absorbers, climbers only have their rope and if they go with static ropes which is not usually climbed on, then they have new rules they may not be used to. For climbing culture, the shift from partner climbing to solo can be dangerous and for a store and a brand to show people how to do it, we definitely want climbers, especially new climbers, to take this stuff ultra serious.
This is just not true. As someone who has been a paid high-angle rescuer and has rope soloed, they are miles apart in the gear used and the way it's used. Some anecdotes: my rope access kit shares only a harness and carabiners (and not the exact same ones, just I use a harness and carabiners in both) with my climbing kit and I could never get away with tying a slip knot in any system that I can think of...
Hell yeah. I've loved learning to top rope solo. It's the most useful climbing related technique I've found that translates to fire service based simple top down rescues. The process of rigging/switching devices/ and weighting and unweighting parts of the system translates really well to pickoff rescues- a skill we are expected to know but seldomly have a chance to practice. Thanks for so clearly and accurately summing up what's taken me 6+ months to learn through friends, the TRS Facebook page, and other means. And I even learned a few new things. ALL FOR FREE. Y'all are seriously the best.
Thanks for this one Ryan, I do a lot of TRS one thing I really don't like in the setup you showed is if the top device slips it can foul out on the next device down. Here's how I setup Personal lanyard goes to English prusik or Tibloc within reach of an out stretched arm so it don't clock you in the face, manually advanced Any old free sliding device or Tibloc/Altochute to belay loop with minimum slack, even using a mallion instead of a biner with a link to my chest harness to keep this device as high as possible Alternatively I use an English prusik up top, and a french prusik at the belay loop set to the correct amount of tension as a crude auto feeder. With an extra short prusik cord prethreaded into the quick link This is neat because it lets you switch very quickly to prusiking mode with the addition of a stirrup or a 3:1 very quickly without disconnecting anything.
I've been using a Edelrid Diver static rope to TRS using Petals double rope configuration with rescue sender and microtraxion for 2 years. Static ropes are the way to go since they are cheaper and TRS is so hard on the rope. I have slipped off the rock many times and have not suffered any shock on my body. The rope has enough stretch to handle the very minimal distance I drop, which is no more that a couple feet. I suffer way more shock from bouldering gym mats. I was surprised to find out how much stretch a static rope still actually has when I first bought it, I was expected no stretch at all, but of course I wouldn't lead climb on one.
A guy I know TRS's on a grigri with a prussik back up, he ties knots one handed in his rope as he climbs. My worry is at what rate of force does as gri gri explode if his system was to fail and he fell onto a back up knot? Absolutely amazing videos by the way. No more gear fear for me :)
Super thorough video. Awesome! The video seemed to show why not two SPOCs for redundancy. However it didn't show why not two Micro Traxions. Other than having two different devices that *might* fail in different ways, is there a reason to not use two Micro Traxions? Is it simply because it's easier to make certain that the pulley mode is never engaged on one of the devices by using a SPOC in the set? I'm just not sure I buy the argument that having two brands is better for redundancy, if that's all it is...
2 micros are fine. That's what I do. I think the clip showing 2 spocs binding up can help people analyze if their two choices play well with each other.
Thank you! I've read Andy Kirkpatrick´s book on the topic and quite some info, also seen most of Yann Camus videos, but your video still showed answers to questions I had! Thank you very much!
I did alot off TRS some years ago but used a petzl shunt mostly. Work in rope access for a living now as a saftey leader/L3, ther are simalaritys but ropeacces is ALWAYS close to a 10:1 or minimum 5:1 saftey factor.
Fantastic video. This would have saved me a lot of time and second guessing my systems back when I was learning these techniques years ago. I learned from an old Steph Davis blog post which at the time was the only thing I could find on the internet to help me learn. Thanks for making this.
I am using the Petzl Shunt attached to a sling around my neck as my main device and a ascender as the back up device. Doing this since years and there are two plus points for me. The petzl shunt locks asap and it has no teeth and its more rope gently. The ascender is super helpful also because if i can't manage moves in a crux or I am already two tired to go back to the top, i just put the ascender on top attached to my life line and pull my self back to the top anchor.
I do it as follows: grigri is the primary. Backup is a prusik, which sits above the grigri. This does require cinching manually, every step, so I use a dynamic rope to mitigate large forces from longer falls.
Was TR soloing and the nylon belt for my chalk bag slid between the micro traxions teeth. Terrifying and stupid of me to not have a back up. Never again
Excellent video. Very detailed 👌. The demonstration on the 13d ( City Park ? ) was also clearly explained throughout the whole process from the start of the pitch to the end. Well done. 👍👍
Great video. A pull test with a petzl shunt would be good to see as it's a progress capture device without any teeth or ridges. Would make a great short to go alongside this.
When I climb rocks outside or at the gym, I do it with a partner who is belaying. However, since I'm a climber who already had climbing gear, I got a couple of these ascender devices to secure myself when I climb up onto my roof to clean leaves out of my gutters or do other work on my roof a few times each year. One part of my roof is flat, and then another part is pitched. The pitched part is metal and slippery. I climb a ladder from a balcony up to the flat part of my roof. I secure 2 redundant webbing loops around a big chimney, clip in a couple carabiners for redundancy, and I generally just tie a single figure 8 on a bite so I have 2 strands of rope. I use a RollNLock on 1 and a Camp Lift on the second strand. I clip one to my belay loop and another to either a sling or a prusik that I girth hitch to my strongpoints but then also clip to a chest harness loop and to the second ascender so one ascender is lower and the other stays a bit higher. Both are clipped to my primary harness, but adding length to the second with a sling or sewn prusik loop and hitching it loosely through a loop on my chest harness helps me keep it higher like a rappel extension. Climbing my roof is easy. I just have the devices to protect myself in case I slip on wet leaves and fall. I like that it's easy to ascend or to push a lever on these devices to give yourself a little slack so you can descend a couple feet at a time. I've done this for a couple years now. I'd feel comfortable doing it on an actual rock climb, but I am a somewhat casual climber, and part of the fun in rock climbing for me is to hang out with one of my climbing buddies. If we top-rope (or lead, but I haven't done lead in years), then we get to take turns and get a little breather periodically. I'm pushing 50 years old, and it's nice to take turns and get a little rest to belay. In any case, great video. It was interesting to see how much abuse the rope could take before it unsheathed with these devices. I use a ~10mm dynamic rope because that's what I already have. With 2 strands and 1 progress capture device on each strand, I feel pretty comfortable with my system.
Great vid but just wondering why no mention of a clove hitch for re-fixing points? I use a spare biner in the knot to make it easy to undo once weighted. Almost but not quite one handable
For how long I've been TRSing and how competent i felt in it, i was a little shocked how much new stuff i learned in this video lol I would have loved to see the TAZ lov tested though - that's by far my favorite device, so much less faff for transitions looking forward to the LRS video!!
Great video, super useful. Would also be very helpful to see some discussion and testing of dynamic versus semi-static ropes for TRS as that is a hot debate. There are several considerations, e.g. abrasion resistance, injury risk from falls (both by falling hard on a static line, and from ground/ledge falls from dynamic rope stretch), and also the ropes feed a bit differently. Would love to see some comparisons.
I tried to cover that a bit in this video and the drop tests have been done on both static and dynamic in videos linked in the description plus others. I personally like the static ropes so when I sit back I hardly go down but I know if I get slack in my system it's really bad.
For a slip knot you can use a bight of rope from the anchor side and two half hitches from the climbing end !! I don’t rock climb but am interested in getting into top roping because I’m an arborist and have all the gear to do it
Awesome video. I was wondering literally just a few days ago if you had tested the lift before, and voila. And filmed at my home crag as a bonus. Got me psyched to trs city park
I often TRS on a Grigri when giving courses, since routes are easy and we need fast transitions. Would have loved if you went a bit deeper on this technique: How much slack is acceptable depending on distance to anchor? When would a Grigri desheathe a rope? is there any sensible way of backing up a Grigri in a one-rope-setting?
Eye to Eye prusik and a hitch climbers pulley will solve 90% of your issues. Also put a carabiner in the loop of the slipknot, same speed but less sketchy.
Absolutely great video! I just have some questions about the rope. Should I use a dynamic or static rope for TRS? Both have their advantages and disadvantages. A dynamic rope was used in the video, right?
Very interesting video, probably the most complete and clear. I really like all the safety explanations about rope care with edges and strategies to mitigate the risks, that is gold! I like that you are showing petzl guide to TRS but i would like to emphasize that they insist you use a rope for each device. That is my system since I've started it a year ago but i only TRS way below my limit and don't care the extra weight. Most accidents are because of human error, as you are the only human in the system do you divide or multiple your error factor by two ? 😅 Always triple check and develop a routine like Brent is showing weight it before let go your security... Best guys!
If you use a Vergo it feeds on its own and you can go down without wasting a bunch of time swapping devices then run whatever backup you want underneath. You also can belay normally with a Vergo so it’s not a one trick device.
@@simplycatsvetclinic everyone overlooks the Vergo but I use it to belay and self belay like 98% of the time and love it! Once you get used to it I find it extremely intuitive
I am currently in the investing of equipment to TRS. I ordered a Black diamond Ascender and a Grigri since both was on sale! The initial goal is to have a two rope system to begin with, so my ascender (chest height) can feed freely and grigri as backup which I feed once I have hands free. This might not work good for long climbs, but maybe something to experiment with on practicing short cruxes until I have the money to by a microtrax!
When I rope solo, I use a locking quickdraw to hold a chest ascender above the highest possible point that my CT Roll'nLock catches connected directly to my belay loop. Then I use an old cheap headlamp strap with micro cord connecting the 2 ends, I feel pretty good about snapping that in an emergency before suffocating. I got into TRS through ice climbing so icing on the rope is honestly more of an issue than anything else (aside from human error) when rope soloing.
Our top rope solo gear guide hownot2.com/trs-guide --- LEAD ROPE SOLO episode is out now ruclips.net/video/9NxGPzFSHPU/видео.html
I am literally counting the days until your LRS video gets published. Great content as always and great collab.
I once TRS a 5.9 and when I got to the middle ledge I realized to my horror that both of my devices were unlocked. The sound of both micro trax clicking shut made the hair on the back of my neck stand up. From now on, I always weight my devices before climbing a route. Always triple check your systems folks.
Holy moly! On the same note, most deaths in highlining have been from people who thought they were tied in but were not. The gear works but it's these situations where making it as screw up proof as possible is ideal. That's why Brent makes his devices unable to be held open.
@@HowNOT2 - just like bungee jumping - don't go before tying in... (not funny...)
Bet you were nearly bakin' brownies 😂
I had a similar instance where I was only using one micro trax (yes yes redundancy is cool) and realized at the top of a 150' pitch that the tail from my chalk bag had slipped into the microtrax exactly as shown in this video and would have just let me slip through the device down to my last stopper knot maybe 60' below. Definitely a pants filler and something to make you step back and examine your systems more closely.
Thoughts on using a Nano Traxion as a top device with a Micro Traxion for the bottom device? As I'm currently using the Camp lift on the top and micro Traxion on the bottom. Great video for TRS! Much love!
Been TR soloing since shortly after I began climbing 12 years ago due to my love of solitude in the mountains as well as lack of partners. This channel is a treasure for folks hoping to get into it, as is this gentleman who started AVANT climbing. Ive seen so many sketchy practices of rope soloists out there. Hoping this video gets a million views.
I started watching him years ago before I was even remotely interested in climbjmg, and am in same boat as you I like being alone out there, Ryan's vids are like the Bible for being safe out there lol
As an Arborist I really enjoy learning about all the Knowledge You Rock Climbers Have!
Heck, I only climb flat, level, and plumb video walls and get a kick out of it.
Hard Is Easy has some good content. I saw another channel’s (Guilty of Treeson) video with a sketchy tree where he used a secondary system and tied in with a cheap non-rated carabiner in case things went sideways.
Never thought about that technique. Better than getting torn in half by your harness though.
Thanks for the great video.
When I project I usually use a two strand setup. One strand with the Micro
Trax and the second strand pre-rigged with a Grigri. When holding the Micro Trax
up with the bungee cord there is no interference between the two strands.
When climbing up I pull the slack out on the "Grigri" strand from time to time and tie a
slip knot below. When on the crux (or at the section I want to project) I don't care about the slack on the Grigri side anymore....
Whith this setup I can rapiddly change between climbing and rappelling. For rapelling just
clip an ascender to the second strand and pull on it, weight the Grigri, disengage the Micro Trax,
unclip the ascender and go down a few meters. When start climbing again just engage the Micro Trax again and go on climbing.
I tend to see converting between climbing and rapelling as the biggest danger.
I try to avoid this as much as possible. However, I only use one Micro Trax on the first rope. I consider the second strand with the Grigri as redundancy.
I have no experience of TRS, but after watching this video, your method sounds like the better one to me 🤔 maybe not if the climbing is so intense that you cannot feed the grigri and tie stopper knots for too long a stretch ?
This is probably the best video out there on TRS! I really wish I had this as a resource two years ago when I was learning how to do it!
Excited to see the LRS version. Thanks for putting so much time into these.
Exactly, same!
Yeah they explained the redirect/rope protection very well. When i started 7 yrs ago I ruined a rope within 20 days out because of not protecting edges like an idiot.
Also good for them to explain transition to rappel midpitch. Most important thing to know
@@YangiTheCat yeah the redirect is a smart idea, I was using rope protectors throughout the climb like a gumby
That slipknot trick for re-fixing is genius, wish I had known that years ago. In fact, I wish this video had existed when I learned TRS back in 2020! Great work fellas.
OMG 1h long! Will watch 100% soon! Well done guys!
Thanks Ryan and Brent for the lovely and informative video.
I have a couple of questions which I'd love to hear discussed more in-depth:
1- the pros and cons of using a static rope vs dynamic rope
2- using a chest harness (made of a sling and a couple of overhand knots) as a way to attach to the top device instead of the neck lanyard (maybe Big Bungee™ isn't the most biased source on this question 😂)
Thanks again
Loved it guys! best video yet on TRS. I top rope solo a lot on a Croll and a Spoc. Thank you for teaching this knot that is easy to pop out. I always use rope protectors and Im happy with it. 1,2m protectors with velcro cover everything, you can take them off by pulling it down against the Croll. I dont carry an ascender for transitioning like you did. Your method looks safer, but I use a technique to jam the rope in my feet to be able to stand up and unweight the Croll which I can then remove quickly and easily and sit back on the Grigri. The Croll doesnt require you to remove the carabiner either. To project some moves I use this pre-cross foot technique to stand on the rope and release each device one at a time and gradually slide them down the rope.
As someone who almost only does TRS. The Taz Lov is worth it, no question. Always have an ascender on you for self rescue or just when your two devices get jammed together and you need to unweight them. I honestly prefer two slings in X on my chest to a neck bungee, so you can lean back on the capture device when resting. And finally to avoid feeling the weight that you've added to the bottom, set it on the ground, don't hang it way up high. It'll lift up and pull through if it needs to, and only as much as it needs to. Protip, a scuba weight in a harness bag works great. Nice vid. Would like to see more of the Sterling 10mm Safety Pro breaking at some point. Curious how strong that nylon core it has is.
Well done!
Nice to see folks talking about how your counterweight pulls on your body when traversing or even on overhanging climbing without a back clip. And super nice to have someone talk about your counterweight resting on the ground or a ledge and introducing slack into the system. And most importantly, the danger of slack in the system.
TRS is a broad topic with many solutions in many different situations, you’ll probably get another thousand comments out of this one!
Thanks guys
TAZ Lov2 as Primary and RollNLock as Backup is by far the best combo. And I’ve literally tried them all.
Yes, the Lov2 is expensive and yes it has a hard to find sweatspot for lowering. But you CAN lower with it without any change to the system at all and it still glides up the rope just like a Micro Trax.
The RollNLock is the perfect backup for it, because you don’t have to remove it for lowering. The cam can be disengaged TEMPORARILY with just 2 fingers while lowering with the other hand on the Lov2. If something were to happen, the RnL immediately grabs once you let the 2 fingers go. Try doing that with a Micro Trax; I got my finger caught in the teeth and it hurt my finger pretty badly. Pretty much impossible with the RnL.
The RnL can’t be disengaged by the Lov2 pressing on it if it were to fail.
Lov2 needs roughly 20cm pivot to engage, which I find really good as it gives you some leeway when you messed up a move and need to „downclimb“ ever so slightly. Also Lov2 can be pushed down with one hand easily if you have to downclimb more than that. The RnL can also be easily disengaged and pushed down with one hand.
So again: With this combo you set it up on the ground, then free climb 5 meters, lower, climb again, lower, climb again, so on and so forth, WITHOUT any change to the system.
I don’t even bring a GriGri anymore when I go TRS as I can rap on the Lov2 just as fine.
I appreciate the video and learned quite a few nifty details. Still, I am surprised how rarely the Lov2 is mentioned in TRS videos.
Great feedback. Behind the scenes dialogue we had were these points:
*Neither one of us have touched one before so no sense in talking about stuff we don't know
*It's easy to fall in the weeds and this was to focus on Brent's way of TRS. If I were to want to rehearse a section over and over, I'd very likely get a Taz Lov
*We aimed to keep this TRS video within spec. Taz Lov2 is 10-11mm ropes. Rarely do climbers use those diameters though I'm sure it's super good enough for smaller diameters (guessing, never touched one before).
Why Lov2? I hear a lot of people talk about Lov3. What's your thoughts between the 2?
@@HowNOT2 The only difference between 2 and 3 is that the closing plate can be opened without taking the Biner out. I personally found that sketchy back when I started to look into it. In TRS, once the system is set, I like that practically nothing can go wrong. Dropping the Lov2 is not a concern to me as I have it attached to my chest harness anyways AND dont ever open the system.
@@HowNOT2 Fair point with the rope thickness; after trying TRS on my normal 9.5mm dynamic rope, I immediately ordered an 11mm static with extra robust sheeth. The stretch and bouncyness was just too much. That being said: Lov2 seems to grab my 9.5 just fine. And since the device is held up, there is no dynamic fall at all anyways, so I'd dare to say home testing is sufficient here. But yes: it's rated for 10-11mm
A dedicated rope for TRS is absolutely worth it in my opinion. The experience is amazing.
If you want I could show you and provide some footage. I'm a climbing photographer and my action cams would love to be used again 😁
Trango Vergo
Got a TAZ Lov2 in a sale and absolutely love it (pun not intended).
I use it with a Spoc or MicroTrax as a backup, which feels super safe, but makes it a bit harder to go down a bit. I played around a bit and found a way to push the Spoc open when lowering. It's not great though. So I just take it off at the top if I do laps. For rehearsing some moves it felt okay this way.
As the TAZ has no lockout I also feel fine to be able to lock the secondary device and just check every time I leave the ground.
This is a great video! One setup that's nice with the Grigri is to do a 2 rope TRS - one is a self-feeding progress capture like a Microtraxion, and the other is a Grigri you pull slack through, with less need to tie backup knots than just the Grigri by itself. I climb short routes so I find it more helpful to do setups with an easy transition to descent.
Great explanations of not a tutorial. I have done some solo top roping with tree gear. Starting at the top, I repel down and place protection on the rope. At the bottom, I coil excess rope for weight. The main difference in my system is the devices. I climb with a Lov2, Rope Runner, or Hitch Hiker instead of two cams. This allows ascending and descending in one device.
I'm excited to see more of this content.
Best tutorial/video about TRS available. Although I do exactly as they do, it's very nice to have no doubts now.
Thanks for putting out this great video!
I personally like to use a chest ascender for the top device. I use a short open sling girth hitched to the belay loop and quicklink attaching that to the chest ascender to give further vertical separation, then a homebrew knockoff of the Petzl Torse to keep it high and upright. I can't accidentally drop it. Its easy to pop it on and off one handed. I usually use a Roll n Lock or Microtraxion for the bottom device. With the vertical separation its pretty smooth to pop the GriGri on below everything, take off the Roll n Lock or Microtraxion, take up slack and hang on the GriGri, then pop the rope out of the chest ascender... I have been trying out the Camp Turbochest recently but can't really notice much of a difference over the Petzl Croll S that I was using before.
I just got a Taz Lov 3 so I'll be playing around with using it as the 2nd device... it is kinda huge and heavy. I think that for me, it may not be the savior that many seem to claim it is.
Its hard to cover all bases, but when I'm teaching friends how to TR solo, something I put more emphasis on (beyond what you covered very well in the vid) is being ready to get out of a jam. Have some extra gear with you and know how to use it should you drop a device. IE double length sling to make friction hitch + footloop or quick 3:1 MA (or other) system, know how to build and use a carabiner brake to rappel or a rap on a munter hitch if you drop your GriGri, practice transitioning to ascending and descending if you find yourself completely free hanging, know what to do if you are free hanging and drop your foot loop, etc...
TR solo with friends is tons of fun. Very little down time with belaying. Easy to get a lot of pitches. Very fun to do variations of a pitch climbing more to the left or right than you would usually be constrained due to bolt placement or availability of gear, etc...
The best video to TRS! Thanx a lot! I wish i‘ve seen it yesrs ago.
I forgot once to lock the Micro-Traxion. Its possible to modify it to not being kept open.
Great work!!
I’ve been reluctant to get into TRS for a while but this video has finally convinced me to get after it. Such a great analysis. I will be buying a neck lanyard as a thank you for imparting this knowledge!!
Diddo, I learned A LOT making this and now TRS every time I can.
To be fair though a sling crossed in an x on your back is better than a neck lanyard....and just get a Taz Lov2 straight away. it is worth it :)
Amazing video, I've been TRS for 3 years and still learned some a lot!
Good video. Another benefit of 2 strands is less stretch, which makes dynamic ropes practical, which reduces the fall factor concerns, which makes the annoying neck bungie less important.
Great video, very constructive and helpful. Better than a Netflix series. Thx for the tips and explanations on things to watch for. You guys rock, keep it up!
Great video! Rope soloing was how I first got into climbing. "Low and slow" we say in the arborist world with learning new systems and devices.
Thank you for this video that was perfect for me as I'm looking for ways to be able to practice on my own. You are always great at asking the Qs needed and easy to listen to and understand, the same goes for Brent too! The perfect mix of live demonstrations combined with all that crazy testing makes me a huge fan of your channel. Great work thnx =)
invaluable knowledge for those interested in learning safely to decie whether to do it, and if yes how to... the failure modes and sheat damage discussion is expecially important and greatly appreciate your testing... i personally want to learn top solo for multipitching (i already do some lead solo on single pitch) as an alternative to jumaring up when cleaning.
edit: forgot to mention that the jokes and "Big Bungee" conspiracy stuff was hilarious!
Currently in the mountains learning to climb thanks to you!! Keep crushing legend 🔥
Thanks
Great to have more info out there for people around TRS.
I personally use a TAZ lov2 & CT roll n lock on a static rope. Always found them to be a really great combo, Obviously the TAZ lov2 & lov3 are expensive pieces of gear but with its ease of use and ability to descend id say its well worth the money.
The only thing I would add as an issue I had with the roll n lock is with a smaller screwgate carabiner the carabiner itself could spin itself around and the screwgate can jam the roll n lock.
Obviously I have a dedicated carabiner for it now which completely solves the issue.
any video where I can see exactly this set up?
Thanks so much for this video. Reading countless 15 year old forums doesn't really compare to seeing it all!
This video was such a pleasure to watch, thank you both for your efforts to go into such detail!
Thanks!
The final video on TRS, thank so much guys 🤩 you really cleared all my doubts.
The re-setting anchor to avoid abrasion is genius, as well as the one-hand release knot.
So excited for the LRS one, too! 🤩
P.s. MicroTrax and Epoc in the cart waiting for my next paycheck😄
Fantastic video, thank you to the whole HN2 and guest!
Really great video, one of your best. Beginner climber here, intrigued by TRS and LRS. You broke it down really simply here, no assumptions or gatekeeping, and really appreciate the serious approach to safety.
Very informative to bring up factors to look at for someone to make their own informed self-responsible decision on their system.
So much interesting, as a speleologist it seems so fun to use all techniques and instruments which I already use during ascent, I wanna try as soon as possible.
Excellent video, I learned a lot and liked the integrated pull testing and focus on safety. Thank you!
Excellent video, you literally hit all the topics I was hoping you would. Thank you 🙌
Also that was an impressive burn on city park!!
Thanks a lot from Spain. This will keep me happy and safe hahahaha, congrats for the content.
Great video btw. I might add that the most dangerous part of TRS is making mistakes. You are climbing solo, so nobody to check you. The two situations to most be aware off are:
1. Setting up the anchor (near the edge of the cliff). You might want to attach/rappel from a tree or something to get close to the edge. Mind fall factor two if you think you can clip a sling on the anchor if it is over the edge.
2. Transitions. Double check everything. You can make it less dangerous but more costly with a simpler system like the Taz Lov.
IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS EPISODE 🙏🙏🙏
Great video. More like this please. More TRS videos. It's more of a reality these days.
Truly a great video - well made with full explanations and demo - thanks so much! Love the humor and outtakes also (and the end!)
I had never really considered doing this until I started ice climbing.
It’s just that much harder to find buddies to go out into the freezing cold and flog a wall of ice. I seriously started looking into this just this last winter.
Taz lov 3 is the way! Yes it's expensive, but it feeds like a dream and is 50x better for working sections than ascender/grigri/reattaching shenanigans.
I wouldn't be caught dead lugging a 10mm rope around for leading but if you're specifically going TRSing a 10mm rope for it is very reasonable. It's actually certified down to 9.5mm for brake assist. I've used it on 9mm (with a microtrax backup) and it has always been fine for me.
I have a dedicated TRS/practice microtrax. I filed off little peg that holds the cam open. I also polished the area so no rough spots, which was probably needless.
It's easy to do but obviously after, you physically can't lock it open.
I once did have one lock open by pressing firmly on it incidentally (I was using 2! So it only made me poop my pants a little) so I decided to mod it.
I definitely use a thicker rope for abrasion and it works better with the tas lov 3. I use a taslov because you can repel on it without removing anything, I back it up with a micro traction that I've modified so it can't lock open so I hold I open with my thumb while repelling. The main benefit of the taslov is its easy to go down and up. The downside is the price size and weight.
Wow. So good. I've been considering this as getting people to climb outside can so hard.
Great tip on the slip knot. I've always used a clove hitch and those are bastards to get undone with one hand after they've been weighted.
About the risk of the micro-trax to be disengaged, you mention racking the device. Imh experience, the most likely situation is when you disengage for rappelling while leaving the device on the rope... and then ascend right back, forgetting to re-engage (and re-test) the rope-grab.
This has more chances of happenning if you go down with the same device that you use upwards, with a Lov2 for instance (which you haven't tried).
About 10 comments above this one, someone left both devices open when they left the ground. It can happen there or during mid rope transitions.
I will try the Lov2 and Lov3 but the size of device, price and diameter of ropes required make it less commonly used and therefore less commonly talked about. If the same design was made smaller for ropes climbers used and $150, yes, that would be magical.
@@HowNOT2 I agree with you that the best combo for long continuous climbing is 2 pulleys (RnL+Micro for me personally).
But when I see your 53" mid-pitch transition (and Brent was fast!) I definitely prefer my Lov2+RnL combo (works fine on 8.9mm) for projecting : It's worth the price (300€ total in FR) !
Btw just saw that the microtrax+rollnlock are at 140+110€ ! Damn pricey in the US (2x FR prices) !!!...
Actually got the Lov2 for below 150€ on sale in Europe (which made it a no brainer).
During climbing it doesn't bother me at all. Feeds super nice and I don't really mind the maybe 300 grams extra weight. It's just maybe something you don't always throw into your climbing pack, because you might rehearse a climb in TRS mode.
I mostly just bring it anyway though. TRS is also super nice, to help a less experienced friend figure something out or just be there and encourage them, if you are a group of 3.
And 9,5mm dynamic rope grabbed perfectly (anecdotal evidence. No science)
Been using a Unicender for tr soloing for years. I love that thing!
A Micro Traction on sling trailing below Neox is great for quick laps on near vertical terrain, Micro will act as stopper knot if Neox slips. And is also a backup incase total failure of Neox. needs to be on shoulder length sling to stay clear of Neox though.
It's my new favorite setup for training because Neox stays attached entire time and not switching devices at top is safer in my opinion.
Also I do laps with no rest, so I just remove micro and zip down then put Micro back on and climb.
Neox feeds well enough for training laps but obviously adds some friction so not as good for trying limit moves.
I used to use GriGri with no backup but it added a lot more friction.
With enough rope weight Neox has always locked up but micro backup makes me completely confident.
Hang shoes or extra rope at bottom and it will feed well.
DON'T USE WITHOUT BACKUP!
oh I also purchased all Avant Climbings little do dads and use them all! Thanks Brent for coming up with and making all that cool stuff!
Great video. Clove hitch rebelay is also feasible. The real challenge on TRS is overhanging routes which Dave Macleod covers making it look far too easy. I'd love to see Brent's suggestions on those.
Do you mean a clove hitch to a qd to isolate the bounce? I was wondering if that would be a good option.
hey, on a Spoc, you can just untie that little cord from the cam and then tie it back when you need it, no need to severe your device
I just looked. True. Looks a little tricky but you could put it back in if you want.
with microtraxion file off the cam open pin. Or get nanotraxion which does not have cam open mode.
Most people I climb with refer to this as "The Dark Arts".
Frankly I've used worse looking systems in extremis for jugging up a rope (pairs of prussiks etc).
I've worked a few systems for TRS and they're pretty sound!
Sadly availability of myself and people I trust rarely line up.
I use a pair of MTraxs and a chest harness with a short bungee cos I don't like putting anything round my neck. Works well for me.
I appreciate all the tips and tricks I've never known to better manage rope 🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽thank you for all you do for the climbing community ❤
great video, i love the use of a second device as a backup, but i would love to see it above the first device as if it were to cut the rope the "backup" would be cut off below it. nmy thought would be to use a small hollow block, some kind of prusick to ride above the protraction. I have done this myself tho i have no clue if its effective and would love to see some tests
I love TR Solo, i use a Taz Lov. it feeds beautify. It was $300 or something... but the amount of time you save switching from a micro-trax to a gri gri, is substantial... and you can climb warmup routes with way less gear. His weight argument I don't think works, at all. Id rather climb with less stuff and just one, sort of, heavy device. You dont even need a hand ascender if you're that concerned about weight, use a prusik and sling. AND with the taz there is no function that allows it not engage. A rabbit-ear fig 8 also eliminates 2 carabiners if you have mussys.
People talk about rope solo climbing like it’s super dangerous and frown when you say it like you do it, as if you’ve got a death wish.
The truth is it’s literally what people who climb for a living in the rigging and rope access industry do every day.
It’s really no different to jumaring up a rope except really you are just dragging the jumar with you instead of fully weighting it, as you use the rock as your ladder.
Great video by the way as always!
same shit solo hikers get - i think what scares people is doing smth ALONE
ps as if most of them know ho to cpr or stop bleeding, yeah right
I think because it gets lumped in with LRS, which can be dangerous, but TRS is super safe. I personally feel more safe on TRS than regular top rope because I'm fully responsible for my safety, instead of trusting someone else.
Rope solo is dangerous for people prone to inattention - think Autobelay accidents. I'm guessing rope access doesn't have those people, but climbing does. Have an honest conversation with yourself about how consistently you stay attentive. Partnered climbing gives opportunities to see how often you make dumb mistakes that partners catch for you.
You also need self-rescue skills like transitioning from climbing to rappelling. Ideally all climbers should have them, but in partnered climbing you could go a long time without them. In roped solo they come up sooner.
Rope access trains people to not fall and to absorb shock if they do. Climbers fall for fun and don't think it's a problem, which it is not most of the time, even with teeth, if there is enough dynamic rope in the system. Rope access has force limiters and absorbers, climbers only have their rope and if they go with static ropes which is not usually climbed on, then they have new rules they may not be used to. For climbing culture, the shift from partner climbing to solo can be dangerous and for a store and a brand to show people how to do it, we definitely want climbers, especially new climbers, to take this stuff ultra serious.
This is just not true. As someone who has been a paid high-angle rescuer and has rope soloed, they are miles apart in the gear used and the way it's used. Some anecdotes: my rope access kit shares only a harness and carabiners (and not the exact same ones, just I use a harness and carabiners in both) with my climbing kit and I could never get away with tying a slip knot in any system that I can think of...
Hell yeah.
I've loved learning to top rope solo. It's the most useful climbing related technique I've found that translates to fire service based simple top down rescues. The process of rigging/switching devices/ and weighting and unweighting parts of the system translates really well to pickoff rescues- a skill we are expected to know but seldomly have a chance to practice.
Thanks for so clearly and accurately summing up what's taken me 6+ months to learn through friends, the TRS Facebook page, and other means. And I even learned a few new things.
ALL FOR FREE. Y'all are seriously the best.
Thanks for this one Ryan,
I do a lot of TRS
one thing I really don't like in the setup you showed is if the top device slips it can foul out on the next device down.
Here's how I setup
Personal lanyard goes to English prusik or Tibloc within reach of an out stretched arm so it don't clock you in the face, manually advanced
Any old free sliding device or Tibloc/Altochute to belay loop with minimum slack, even using a mallion instead of a biner with a link to my chest harness to keep this device as high as possible
Alternatively I use an English prusik up top, and a french prusik at the belay loop set to the correct amount of tension as a crude auto feeder. With an extra short prusik cord prethreaded into the quick link This is neat because it lets you switch very quickly to prusiking mode with the addition of a stirrup or a 3:1 very quickly without disconnecting anything.
“Why wonder something if you have a drop tower!” LOL. thank you for this video, great work as always !!
I've been using a Edelrid Diver static rope to TRS using Petals double rope configuration with rescue sender and microtraxion for 2 years. Static ropes are the way to go since they are cheaper and TRS is so hard on the rope. I have slipped off the rock many times and have not suffered any shock on my body. The rope has enough stretch to handle the very minimal distance I drop, which is no more that a couple feet. I suffer way more shock from bouldering gym mats. I was surprised to find out how much stretch a static rope still actually has when I first bought it, I was expected no stretch at all, but of course I wouldn't lead climb on one.
A guy I know TRS's on a grigri with a prussik back up, he ties knots one handed in his rope as he climbs.
My worry is at what rate of force does as gri gri explode if his system was to fail and he fell onto a back up knot?
Absolutely amazing videos by the way. No more gear fear for me :)
The grigri explodes at about 17kN if I recall correctly; simply impossible to experience in a standard fall on lead or otherwise.
Super thorough video. Awesome! The video seemed to show why not two SPOCs for redundancy. However it didn't show why not two Micro Traxions. Other than having two different devices that *might* fail in different ways, is there a reason to not use two Micro Traxions? Is it simply because it's easier to make certain that the pulley mode is never engaged on one of the devices by using a SPOC in the set? I'm just not sure I buy the argument that having two brands is better for redundancy, if that's all it is...
2 micros are fine. That's what I do. I think the clip showing 2 spocs binding up can help people analyze if their two choices play well with each other.
It is nice to have one of the devices be a style that can't be held open in pulley mode, that is my rationale
Thank you! I've read Andy Kirkpatrick´s book on the topic and quite some info, also seen most of Yann Camus videos, but your video still showed answers to questions I had! Thank you very much!
I did alot off TRS some years ago but used a petzl shunt mostly. Work in rope access for a living now as a saftey leader/L3, ther are simalaritys but ropeacces is ALWAYS close to a 10:1 or minimum 5:1 saftey factor.
Fantastic video. This would have saved me a lot of time and second guessing my systems back when I was learning these techniques years ago. I learned from an old Steph Davis blog post which at the time was the only thing I could find on the internet to help me learn. Thanks for making this.
I am using the Petzl Shunt attached to a sling around my neck as my main device and a ascender as the back up device. Doing this since years and there are two plus points for me. The petzl shunt locks asap and it has no teeth and its more rope gently. The ascender is super helpful also because if i can't manage moves in a crux or I am already two tired to go back to the top, i just put the ascender on top attached to my life line and pull my self back to the top anchor.
I do it as follows: grigri is the primary. Backup is a prusik, which sits above the grigri. This does require cinching manually, every step, so I use a dynamic rope to mitigate large forces from longer falls.
Was TR soloing and the nylon belt for my chalk bag slid between the micro traxions teeth. Terrifying and stupid of me to not have a back up. Never again
Damn! How far did you fall?
Holy crap!
@@stephenbeard9882 Luckily I was topping out as I noticed it. Didnt realize free solo'd the last 15 feet😂😂.
Never ever do trs with one device. Best is to have two ropes and one device if different make for each.
Excellent video. Very detailed 👌. The demonstration on the 13d ( City Park ? ) was also clearly explained throughout the whole process from the start of the pitch to the end. Well done. 👍👍
Great video. A pull test with a petzl shunt would be good to see as it's a progress capture device without any teeth or ridges. Would make a great short to go alongside this.
That was an awesome video. Can't thank you guys enough for it. Wish I lived closer to the US to buy my stuff from your store
Clip stick aid climbing is the way to go if you can't rappel from above
When I climb rocks outside or at the gym, I do it with a partner who is belaying.
However, since I'm a climber who already had climbing gear, I got a couple of these ascender devices to secure myself when I climb up onto my roof to clean leaves out of my gutters or do other work on my roof a few times each year.
One part of my roof is flat, and then another part is pitched. The pitched part is metal and slippery.
I climb a ladder from a balcony up to the flat part of my roof. I secure 2 redundant webbing loops around a big chimney, clip in a couple carabiners for redundancy, and I generally just tie a single figure 8 on a bite so I have 2 strands of rope. I use a RollNLock on 1 and a Camp Lift on the second strand. I clip one to my belay loop and another to either a sling or a prusik that I girth hitch to my strongpoints but then also clip to a chest harness loop and to the second ascender so one ascender is lower and the other stays a bit higher. Both are clipped to my primary harness, but adding length to the second with a sling or sewn prusik loop and hitching it loosely through a loop on my chest harness helps me keep it higher like a rappel extension. Climbing my roof is easy. I just have the devices to protect myself in case I slip on wet leaves and fall. I like that it's easy to ascend or to push a lever on these devices to give yourself a little slack so you can descend a couple feet at a time.
I've done this for a couple years now. I'd feel comfortable doing it on an actual rock climb, but I am a somewhat casual climber, and part of the fun in rock climbing for me is to hang out with one of my climbing buddies. If we top-rope (or lead, but I haven't done lead in years), then we get to take turns and get a little breather periodically. I'm pushing 50 years old, and it's nice to take turns and get a little rest to belay.
In any case, great video. It was interesting to see how much abuse the rope could take before it unsheathed with these devices. I use a ~10mm dynamic rope because that's what I already have. With 2 strands and 1 progress capture device on each strand, I feel pretty comfortable with my system.
I use a chest harness while soloing.
Great vid but just wondering why no mention of a clove hitch for re-fixing points? I use a spare biner in the knot to make it easy to undo once weighted. Almost but not quite one handable
Most informative video on top rope ihave seen yet good work
Thank you for making such a comprehensive video. It’s awesome ❤
For how long I've been TRSing and how competent i felt in it, i was a little shocked how much new stuff i learned in this video lol
I would have loved to see the TAZ lov tested though - that's by far my favorite device, so much less faff for transitions
looking forward to the LRS video!!
Great video, super useful. Would also be very helpful to see some discussion and testing of dynamic versus semi-static ropes for TRS as that is a hot debate. There are several considerations, e.g. abrasion resistance, injury risk from falls (both by falling hard on a static line, and from ground/ledge falls from dynamic rope stretch), and also the ropes feed a bit differently. Would love to see some comparisons.
I tried to cover that a bit in this video and the drop tests have been done on both static and dynamic in videos linked in the description plus others. I personally like the static ropes so when I sit back I hardly go down but I know if I get slack in my system it's really bad.
@@HowNOT2 Thanks for the reply! Will check out the drop test videos
I have dynamic ropes for climbing with partner so those are what I use for TRS too. I do not mind rope strech. Less stuff to carry/have.
For a slip knot you can use a bight of rope from the anchor side and two half hitches from the climbing end !! I don’t rock climb but am interested in getting into top roping because I’m an arborist and have all the gear to do it
Awesome video. I was wondering literally just a few days ago if you had tested the lift before, and voila. And filmed at my home crag as a bonus. Got me psyched to trs city park
I often TRS on a Grigri when giving courses, since routes are easy and we need fast transitions. Would have loved if you went a bit deeper on this technique:
How much slack is acceptable depending on distance to anchor? When would a Grigri desheathe a rope? is there any sensible way of backing up a Grigri in a one-rope-setting?
Really well done and informative! Can't wait for the lead rope solo.
Eye to Eye prusik and a hitch climbers pulley will solve 90% of your issues.
Also put a carabiner in the loop of the slipknot, same speed but less sketchy.
Absolutely great video! I just have some questions about the rope. Should I use a dynamic or static rope for TRS? Both have their advantages and disadvantages. A dynamic rope was used in the video, right?
I use a Petzl Torse shoulder strap with a Petzl CROLL and back it up with a Micro Traxion. Works pretty good!
Excellent video!! Thank you 🙏 from England 🏴
Very interesting video, probably the most complete and clear. I really like all the safety explanations about rope care with edges and strategies to mitigate the risks, that is gold!
I like that you are showing petzl guide to TRS but i would like to emphasize that they insist you use a rope for each device. That is my system since I've started it a year ago but i only TRS way below my limit and don't care the extra weight.
Most accidents are because of human error, as you are the only human in the system do you divide or multiple your error factor by two ? 😅
Always triple check and develop a routine like Brent is showing weight it before let go your security...
Best guys!
If you use a Vergo it feeds on its own and you can go down without wasting a bunch of time swapping devices then run whatever backup you want underneath. You also can belay normally with a Vergo so it’s not a one trick device.
Agree love my Vergo really surprised not mentioned more, but they can be hard to find online. Need an updated video compare the Vergo and Taz??
@@simplycatsvetclinic everyone overlooks the Vergo but I use it to belay and self belay like 98% of the time and love it! Once you get used to it I find it extremely intuitive
Really informative. Can't wait for a lead rope solo video!
First time on your channel, super video, subscribed!
I am currently in the investing of equipment to TRS. I ordered a Black diamond Ascender and a Grigri since both was on sale! The initial goal is to have a two rope system to begin with, so my ascender (chest height) can feed freely and grigri as backup which I feed once I have hands free.
This might not work good for long climbs, but maybe something to experiment with on practicing short cruxes until I have the money to by a microtrax!
When I rope solo, I use a locking quickdraw to hold a chest ascender above the highest possible point that my CT Roll'nLock catches connected directly to my belay loop. Then I use an old cheap headlamp strap with micro cord connecting the 2 ends, I feel pretty good about snapping that in an emergency before suffocating. I got into TRS through ice climbing so icing on the rope is honestly more of an issue than anything else (aside from human error) when rope soloing.
We love Index!
Was about to head out the door to TRS. Thanks for the hold up!
fantastic video. Also read "On the Line" (rope solo manual) by Andy Kirkpatrick...
Loved the vid and the gear! Waiting for my lanyard to come now!