You’re so patient Tom. Much better to be patient than impatient! I like a length of pull of 13 1/4or just shorter. With heavy winter coat and or just a pack pack on, I’ll take 12 3/4” to 13”. You buy these cool gun that you don’t want to cut on. I have a few budget gun that I am very willing to make fit me. It also helps me greatly in my shooting when I working out. The extra strength and muscle padding helps greatly. I would bet that if that #1 was just a little too long and the butt pad is too hard, that can make a big problem.. A properly fitting length of pull and soft butt pad has made a world of difference for me. I enjoyed the video…. You buy cool guns. Too cool….
Tom I analyzed your groups over and over and found that your gun is a shooter for sure because most of your flyers are on the second shot not the first or last which means as you yourself said it’s you! I think that gun is a good 1/2” inch gun or less but as I always say only if the shooter can hold it good enough! Your like me always looking to improve and finding a better load or a little tidbit that will make us a better shooter! Some in comments state that a lot of it can be a bad barrel but my retired PRS gunsmith says it’s the shooter just like you said being too light the gun wants to move around more!
Great video as us dual Tom! That’s the reason I use the lead sled when sighting my gun in for hunting! 60+ years hunting reloading and collecting rifles and being in more then my share of auto accidents and the last one just about ripped my head completely off! So the lead sled just makes it so I have more confidence in where it’s hitting on the target. One thing I might mention that I noticed is you have a heavy brake rotor on the lead. I have owned a sled since they first came out about 30 years ago and have seen that to much weight in the sled can cause damage to the gun in the stock so you might think about putting a little foam behind the stock to take some of the hard recoil out! I had one stock on a Weatherby totally split! Weatherby covered it but I learned from my mistake🤔😳 your my favorite show on RUclips at least right now and I have been following your channel since you started and you just keep getting better with every episode!
Great video , appreciate the time you take to explore possible scenarios affecting accuracy ! I've found that most of my guns will shoot best with one particular load , I have a Remington 3006 that'll go from 1/2 inch groups to 6 inch just by changing brands . my Ruger # one in 300 win mag shoots under an inch with most any load , it weighs over 9lbs .
Thanks Tom as always. I too have never used a lead sled, but I certainly can see their place after watching this video and especially in load development. It looks to me like this rifle will shoot and the loads you have don't look too bad. As you stated, I'd hunt with any of those. Thanks again for sharing.
My No.1 in 300 win mag and .280 Remington both had the stock crack while using a lead sled. I switched to a hi skor rest that has a shock absorber in it and no issues since
New to your channel. Picked up a couple rotors for my lead sleds after watching you. They hold it down better than the sand bags or the free weights I had been using. I shoot heavy magnum rifles and the recoil practically throws them off the sled. Not so with the rotors. Great tip to share with your followers!
Staball 6.5 and Staball Match both have load listings for 150 gr 303 British and are slower than 4064. Good luck on your quest for the best load for that rifle.
Thank you. This is a thoughtful presentation with a great, practical approach to load development. There are so many discussions of cartridges and/or rifles that ignore the most fundamental question: does it “fit” you? I have rifles that shoot well off the bench but are just bad for *me* shooting offhand or even using a sling. Then I have a Browning BLR. It’s not supposed to be an accurate rifle. I have rifles that shoot better off the bench, no question. But for whatever reason - sights, balance, weight, shape, drop, I really don’t know - I shoot that rifle better offhand than just about anything else.
Another great video, Mr Tom. I always learn something from your videos. Sometimes, I have to think about it a while, but your videos really help. I'd like to meet you in person one of these days
Nice video Tom. I picked up a few points as I’m trying to figure out my issues with the Savage 111 trophy hunter 30-06. First point is getting a led sled, 2nd is watching the cross hairs after the shot. If I don’t get this rifle right, probably trade it up on a Bergara 30-06 for some Missouri whitetail deer hunting trip next year. I’m afraid to take my Remington 700 cdl 243 to Mizzu, thinking it might be underpowered from thos 300lb Monsters. Thanks for the advice,I enjoy your videos.
There's a video by "The Real Gunsmith" that blamed the #1 inconsistencies on the design of the front screw attachment. It puts a ton of upward pressure on the barrel causing erratic groups. He has a pretty simple fix for that.
I owned one of these in .243 win. Ultra light. I found it was a two shot rifle. The barrel heated up fast. I found the fore end sensitive I did some floating work on it. It was a long time ago. I forgotten much about it. It shot fine if you held it to two shots.
Very interesting Tom, I'm going through a very similar development myself at the moment. Getting the consistency in groups from one range day to another is a problem.
Excellent work. May I suggest one thing, we ( Brit commonwealth, Australia I guess) call it "the 303", say " British" once or twice, then just 303 thereafter. Cheers 🇦🇺
I just picked up a new rifle a week ago, (Savage Axis II Predator in 22-250).. it shot great with "cheap" factory ammo, and last night I loaded up my first batch of hand loads for it... and now it is cold and really windy, and raining on and off.. so, here I sit watching others shoot ;)
Tom, I had a. Browning model 78 back in the late 70s - early 80s. It was a 22-250 and was the most frustrating firearm I’ve ever dealt with. I tried numerous different loads and I could take it to the range on a Friday and get a sub 1/2 inch 5 shot group, then go back out on Sunday and the group would have grown to. 2. 1/2 inches. It also had a nasty habit of shifting it point of aim . I was living in a rural, farm area in NW Manitoba and used to shoot crows and gophers (Richardsons ground squirrels). This single shot rifle proved totally unsatisfactory and I wound up selling it and using a Parker Hail 25-06 bolt action action that held its POI really well and exploded varmints out to extended ranges. That was the last single shot rifle I ever owned and I’ve never be tempted to try another one.
My experience with light hunting rifles is that holding the forend gives me better results shooting off a rest. I usually place my hand between the forend and the bag. It also seems to reduce felt recoil.
Totally agree. Controlling the forend with you hand instead of a rest is the way to go. It is more difficult, granted, but more consistent if you put the work in.
I would go ahead and grip the fore-end and hold it fairly tight as if though I was sitting in a tree stand and about to shoot a deer at 200 yards, to shrink the groups. I have had no luck shooting rifles with some recoil without controlling the fore-end so I just gave up on that. Just my $0.02.
I totally agree. Using a Ledsled or sand bags can give you good groups. However, in my opinion, your rifle groups may change when shooting while holding a rifle the way you would while hunting. When testing groups I hold the rifle like I would when hunting. One hand on pistol grip/trigger and the other hand on the forearm while resting the center of the rifle on a long sand bag for support. This will give you a more realistic idea where your rifle bullet will hit when hunting. Good luck!
The lead sled should always be more accurate than a human shooter, but that's kinda the point. The lead sled removes a variable by isolating out shooter errors, particularly breathing and flinching. You can adjust your sights after load development, like you would with factory ammo. Removing shooter errors from the equation is a better answer in the load development phase.
Sir on the chronograph set up. Get you some twine put a loop in it over barrel ,marked at the distance ya want for front but long enough to go through . Saves a bunch of time n hassle setting up by ones self. Wish I had thought of it myself..but ..guy at the range helped my Uncle set his up n gave him one.. As he says the Cats Meow.😂
Thank you once again Tom, I do not own a lead sled but do have a mechanical rest as you used in your initial test. Next time I get to the range I will concentrate on a firm hold and be fussy about fore end placement on the rest. I do wish and also wonder why Ruger went with bores of .313" and some reported as larger than .313" instead of .311" At least Hornady's bullet is .312" so that helps a bit I guess. Another thing I found was if I got to pushing the 150's at maximum listed loads with 4064 my groups opened up over those loaded 2 grains lighter, I will revisit this again when weather and time permits.
David you've got me curious about something. I wonder what the tolerance range for bore diameters is for most manufactures? I don't doubt that someone found a Ruger with a .313 bore diameter but I suspect all manufactures start with oversize tooling that produces bores however many thousandths oversize and then as the tooling wears it get's closer to nominal and then is replaced or adjusted somewhere around nominal? I'm sure they all have a tolerance range for bore diameter I just have no idea how big the range is?
If you go back to the bible of Sharpes Reloading Book - he has no hesitation saying the bullet should match the bore perfectly. Not a commonly held view. Pressures and obturation taken into account. He does have a point. I think I agree with him.
Most likely answer is the barrel harmonics of the load 2 gr lighter than max were the best match for that combination. A change as simple as a different primer or different seating depths would likely alter that, but whether it would be favorable or not, you would have to test.
Have you thought about trying Reloader 15? I have just got back into reloading & working up loads for my .303 is not real high on my list as I can't hunt with it in Illinois, but back in the day one of my buddies was giving me some real good ammo for my .308 using Reloader 15 with 150 grain bullets, I always wanted to try it with my .303 as the performance level is about the same.
Here I am, trying to practice "simple living" with less stuff.......... Then I see this. As a huge fan of both the .303 British cartridge and falling-block single shot rifles like the 1885 Winchester and the Ruger No. 1, I'm having a REALLY DIFFICULT RIME resisting the purchase of a new rifle I don't need after watching this video. I;d hunt with that rifle with those loads with confidence that I'd never have an unfilled tag. ;}
Never been one to use my free hand to pinch the rear bag, I've always used my free hand to stabilize the forearm. I would like to see you try that. I think you will see tighter groups + that's the way you will shoot when hunting. Ron Spomer did a similiar test and he improved from 2" groups to under 1" groups at 100yds. You are real close to having an "interesting rifle" as someone once said.
Easttexan, I will try that the next I go to the range. Honestly as hardheaded as I am it's tough for me to do it but I suspect it will help? And I love how you phrased that about almost having an interesting rifle! Col. Whelen would be proud.
Tom, I am a long term RUGER #1 lover, starting when I saw the first magazine ad back a good number of years ago. Are you aware that you can float a #1 fore end which provided zero contact between the fore end and the barrel. I have done so on a number of RUGER #1 rifles. I have made it a practice for years to float all hunting rifle barrel, and figured out a way to do so on the #1. It works, leaving the fore end solid and free floating.
As it stands with those groups an eight inch group at 200yds will kill adequately. We always sighted in at 25yds and adjusted so groups were an inch low. I'd fit a pachmeyer butt pad and try keep the eye relief of the scope to 3".
Im taking my sks out and rezero the sights. I swapped out the front post from a skinny tall to a wider and abit shorter post . I used tape to mark my old setting so i know were to lign up the post. Just need to do some fine adjustments now. Time to go out to the field range and shoot some groups. SKS is my favorite rifle
Dalan, I absolutely love shooting an SKS. My uncle bought one at a gun show when I was with him when I was about 12. He brought it back home and we cleaned it up. It was brand new and packed in cosmoline and I got to go over inch of that rifle. Then we went to the range and I had a ball shooting it and I absolutely loved those iron sights on it. And back then I think he paid $80 dollars for that rifle and it came with a giant can of ammo. I forget how many rounds but it was a lot! And I hope that new post works out like you want it to. I just wish I still had the eye sight to be able to appreciate great iron sights like those again.
One of the issues with the Ruger #1 is the way the fore end is attached to the barrel. It can affect accuracy on some rifles. I had a #1V Varmint is that shot very well.. That's not always the case. The .303 British cartridge is also a hard kicker.
I have enjoyed every one of your videos, and found food for thought in them, too. Thanks for sharing your interests with us. I have noticed that your videos are edited for brevity while you shoot, which is great. But this obscures how much time you leave between shots. Do you wait a fixed amount of time, or just enough to reload, get back into position and on target? My own inclination with a light hunting rifle would be to fire groups with the least delay that still allows careful shooting. Then wait 5 minutes at least between groups to let that light barrel cool down. I’d enjoy hearing your thoughts on this.
Jonathan, I shoot exactly like you described. I don't wait between shots in a group but I do let the barrel cool down between groups. Sometimes it can be 20 minutes between groups depending on ambient temperature. And the things you're talking about is something I experimented with some time ago with my Winchester Featherweight in 7x57. The first 2 shots would always touch but then the 3rd and 4th would be flyers. Everyone I talked to about it said that it was because it was a Featherweight with a thin barrel and to let the barrel cool between shots and I did and it made a big difference. But I eventually figured out that the stock had warped and that the barrel was so close to touching the forend that after it heated up it was no longer free floated. Once I removed some wood for clearance the 3rd and 4th shot flyers completely went away. What I got from that is the barrel heating up doesn't affect accuracy on thin barrels, but they are very sensitive to anything that affects their harmonics. That might end up being the issue here? Or at least that might be what keeps it from shooting really small groups? But for the moment this rifle seems more than capable of shooting 1 MOA. If I ever want it shoot smaller I might have to work on this forend?
I find a rifle zeroed in a sled ( which I don’t like at all ) will hit to a different point of impact being shot of hand. And the reason I don’t like them is a rifle and it’s components are meant to recoil. That sudden stop of movement by the lead sled is hard on equipment. I’ve seen scopes destroyed by them and the ones with the strap that goes over the fore end of the rifle will break a rifle stock. I new of one guy that broke three stocks using a sled like that and finally the shop that he bought the rifle from figured out what he was doing and how the stocks weee being broken and refused to replace anymore at there cost as they had replaced them twice for him at there cost.
The best thing to do is start at the beginning and check each thing off as you go! The number one reason for fliers is the shooter just so you know so don’t assume anything just go down the list and let it be what it is not what you want it to be!
Lawernce, I can't imagine recoil was an issue with that one? Maybe it was just a bad one because anything in 22 hornet should shoot decent at the very worst.
in target shooting , we seem to have settled on a very slow burning powder . in fact it is a full case . maybe i should explain , this is in classic 303 target using full wood un molested battle rifles with competition aperture sights . i have two " Fultons regulated " 303 rifles , one no4 and one SMLE . The SMLE is my favourite . We shoot at 300 yards and out to 800 . [ from 500 and out the 303 is as good as 308 or even better ] In this configuration the lighter projectiles don't shoot at all and 175 180 produce by far the best groups and around 1 MOA . This amount of powder would not work on a shorter barrel sporting rifle . I must apologize because I don't remember the powder but it was not as slow as " thail boss ".
I have quite a few No1 rifles, and I like them. But your comment of "We're Getting Some Variations" ought to be engraved on the barrel - that's the real "Ruger Warning" ;) I finally got my 220 Swift and 6.5X284 to shoot well by free floating the forearm.
Thank you for the time u spent filming and editing so I could enjoy watchin ya shoot your No. 1. Still going to get some hunting in with the inability to eat venison? Would love to see some footage of this rifle on a hunt
Zach, I'm working on something for next season. They say this Alpha Gal thing will go away after a long enough time without getting bit by a tick so I'm going to try hunting really hard next year and see if I'm there yet? And I'm going to try and do a video once a month on scouting starting in January. I hunt mostly public land and it's tough to find a spot this late in the season. Actually it takes a lot of scouting to find even a marginal spot and constant scouting because spots change so fast on public land. Plus I'm using just about every free minute I have remodeling the new house right now. But I think it will be a lot of fun to go through the process of scouting public land, coming up with different strategies for different places, choosing the rifle, and then seeing if all comes together? Or not? And this is probably the rifle I would choose for most of hunts so hopefully we get to see what it does next season!
Shooting offhand is quieter if you stand out in the open and also a lot easier on the body so the flinch is minimized and your practical accuracy will come through. Lighter guns are better off hand in some cases but anyway that is a nicer way to shoot heavy calibers.
Derek, after someone else mentioned their did the something it's got me wondering as well? I hear a lot about people trying different things with the No1's to get them shoot like bedding the forend and playing with the forend screw. I'm starting to think the serious accuracy problems are from the weight of the rifle but then that other stuff is to shave that last little bit off the group size? A couple of those groups were decent but would have been a lot better with out that first shot?
@@fjb4932 unless it's elk or something big and dangerous. Then, every shot counts. You don't want to chase that animal across hell's half acre, only to be beaten to it by a Grizzly. And you can't shoot the Grizzly that hasn't attacked you. And you can't go after another elk. So forget the long range nonsense, and the idea that one shot is all that is needed, and get in close enough to get a couple good shots. And practice taking them.
I don’t think the spot you rest the rifle matters as much as being consistent every time. I’ve noticed that with my lever guns that aren’t free floated.
The Ruger No. 1 is a single shot rifle. Which means one does not have to seat the bullets to fit into a magazine. So, unless the bullet will not stay seated in the case, the extreme leade jump can be adjusted. Also want to mention I have a No. 1 in .303 British as well. Mr. River, looks to me like you shot four groups, all with one (the first round) a flyer and then three touching or near touching each other. How do you do that? By the way, those four groups all look good to zero the rifle and go hunting.
You nailed it on the bullet staying seated. I usually load my bullets .020" off the lands and when I checked the distance to the lands with these 150 grainers the bullet was completely out of the case when it touched. And someone else mentioned that their worst shot in a group with their No1 was always the first one. Maybe that's just something with the cold bore shot on these? But you're right, all of these groups are more than good enough to go hunting with and I would be better off stopping right here and to just go hunting. But curiosity always gets me! LOL
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving December 2023: After I wrote and submitted that, I wondered if you didn't already know that. I do not recall hearing about conversation nor seeing that phenomenon of the first shot in my own trials. I did notice the PPU ammunition (duplicating the 174 grain Mk 7 ammo) grouped not incredibly, but sufficiently. Truthfully I haven't done much experimentation with loadings and the rifle. Now I feel rather embarrassed, I should have attempted this before. I do have the reloading gear and components for this. Thanks for the feedback to my observations. Have to wait for enough spring to get out to the range.
Barrel life! I hear it's really tough to get a No1 re barreled. Other than that they are a tough rifle and because they are a single shot they generally don't get a whole lot of rounds through them. But I would shy away from cartridges that are known to be tough on barrel life like a 257 Weatherby.
Love you're content, but you're shooting skills need help. Question whatever happened with the Model 70 257 Roberts? You never finished that series after JB bore pasting the bore, etc?
I like 4064 imr and 150 grain hot core bullets in my 30-06 loads that load seems to group good in all the 30-06 bolt guns I’ve shot my load in I got my load from my knowledgeable uncle who is been past for some time but he was hand loading clear back in the 1940’s and he seemed to know what shot and what didn’t and I picked up a quite few loads before he got cancer and died
Scotty, I sure do wish you included some more data: grains of IMR-4064, COAL, primer, hell . . .even case used. But at least it's a starting hint, so cain't look a gift horse in the mouth. Thanks. ☆
I have a tc pro hunter in 270 I've shot 130 grain ammo for thirty years this gun patterns like buck shot this went on two years one day I found some 150 grain ammo an magic happened three shot group one ragged hole
Warren I'll have to try that sometime but first I have something else to try. I just ran across some new loadings for the 303 that I'm hoping to try this weekend and it should be really interesting?@@warrenporter302
Ruger #1 rifles have a reputation for vertical stringing as the barrel heats up. Because of the design, the barrel, obviously, is not and cannot be free-floated. It is a hunting gun, not a target rifle.
Sir, I am a Ruger No1 fan. I have the same model as yours in .45/70 also two others. If I may suggest try shooting from the bench but holding the fore end as you would when hunting allowing a snug fit in the shoulder and resting your right hand on the bench rest. Accurately can be enhanced by floating the barrel either by using bedding compound between the fore end hanger and fore end or simply inserting a thin shim to relieve the contact point at the fore end tip. A gunsmith friend who also has a .45/70 No1 says that accuracy problems occurred with No1’s some years ago due to poor quality barrels. All mine shoot great. Good luck with that lovely rifle and great cartridge. 🇬🇧 I have a copy of an article on the Ruger No1 accuracy improvement from an old magazine which I will gladly share if you like to let me have your email address.
Some people are great shots some are ok shots most are less than adequate and some are just terrible! Tom I think you fall right between less than adequate and terrible!! Of all the RUclips channels I watch this one by far has the worst running average for groups size!!!
Terry, I take that as a complement because no matter what I'm honest about my results be it good, bad, or indifferent. And fortunately for me I don't watch other channels much. The only person I'm competing against is myself and the rifle I'm trying to figure out. Besides, how boring would that be to just shoot little tiny groups all of the time! LOL
He who cast the first stone🤔😳😂 everyone is an expert! Not! Being a good shot or not doesn’t make a channel good, it’s the people who run it🤔😳 I am retired and spend about 8 hours a day on watching channels and this is one of the best on rifles but what do I know after 60+ years of hunting reloading and collecting rifles! You should be Thanking Tom for all the effort he spends trying to educate people who like rifles and hunting who only helps our cause!
That seems a little unkind ! I have to say though, that our .303 was not exactly developed on light rifles ! I wish you well on your journey Tom, hope you get where you want to go.
You’re so patient Tom. Much better to be patient than impatient! I like a length of pull of 13 1/4or just shorter.
With heavy winter coat and or just a pack pack on, I’ll take 12 3/4” to 13”.
You buy these cool gun that you don’t want to cut on.
I have a few budget gun that I am very willing to make fit me. It also helps me greatly in my shooting when I working out. The extra strength and muscle padding helps greatly.
I would bet that if that #1 was just a little too long and the butt pad is too hard, that can make a big problem..
A properly fitting length of pull and soft butt pad has made a world of difference for me.
I enjoyed the video…. You buy cool guns. Too cool….
Tom I analyzed your groups over and over and found that your gun is a shooter for sure because most of your flyers are on the second shot not the first or last which means as you yourself said it’s you! I think that gun is a good 1/2” inch gun or less but as I always say only if the shooter can hold it good enough! Your like me always looking to improve and finding a better load or a little tidbit that will make us a better shooter! Some in comments state that a lot of it can be a bad barrel but my retired PRS gunsmith says it’s the shooter just like you said being too light the gun wants to move around more!
When I'm sighting in i put my hand between the gun and the rest . Thanks Tom like you i love my .303s
Great video as us dual Tom! That’s the reason I use the lead sled when sighting my gun in for hunting! 60+ years hunting reloading and collecting rifles and being in more then my share of auto accidents and the last one just about ripped my head completely off! So the lead sled just makes it so I have more confidence in where it’s hitting on the target. One thing I might mention that I noticed is you have a heavy brake rotor on the lead. I have owned a sled since they first came out about 30 years ago and have seen that to much weight in the sled can cause damage to the gun in the stock so you might think about putting a little foam behind the stock to take some of the hard recoil out! I had one stock on a Weatherby totally split! Weatherby covered it but I learned from my mistake🤔😳 your my favorite show on RUclips at least right now and I have been following your channel since you started and you just keep getting better with every episode!
Thanks for sharing Tom I enjoyed.
Great video , appreciate the time you take to explore possible scenarios affecting accuracy ! I've found that most of my guns will shoot best with one particular load , I have a Remington 3006 that'll go from 1/2 inch groups to 6 inch just by changing brands . my Ruger # one in 300 win mag shoots under an inch with most any load , it weighs over 9lbs .
Thanks for sharing your knowledge and keep your videos coming.
Thanks Tom as always. I too have never used a lead sled, but I certainly can see their place after watching this video and especially in load development. It looks to me like this rifle will shoot and the loads you have don't look too bad. As you stated, I'd hunt with any of those. Thanks again for sharing.
My No.1 in 300 win mag and .280 Remington both had the stock crack while using a lead sled. I switched to a hi skor rest that has a shock absorber in it and no issues since
Hyskore? Which model?
@@anthonykaiser974 DLX PRECISION REST
Therea, thanks for the heads up on that! I had someone else say they had the same problem with a Weatherby. I will definitely check that rest out.
T/C encore will crack in a heartbeat too
hi Tom, love your channel.
Thanks USAACbrat
New to your channel. Picked up a couple rotors for my lead sleds after watching you. They hold it down better than the sand bags or the free weights I had been using.
I shoot heavy magnum rifles and the recoil practically throws them off the sled. Not so with the rotors. Great tip to share with your followers!
Low powered Leupold variable in lower rings beautiful woods gun
Staball 6.5 and Staball Match both have load listings for 150 gr 303 British and are slower than 4064. Good luck on your quest for the best load for that rifle.
Thank you. This is a thoughtful presentation with a great, practical approach to load development.
There are so many discussions of cartridges and/or rifles that ignore the most fundamental question: does it “fit” you? I have rifles that shoot well off the bench but are just bad for *me* shooting offhand or even using a sling. Then I have a Browning BLR. It’s not supposed to be an accurate rifle. I have rifles that shoot better off the bench, no question. But for whatever reason - sights, balance, weight, shape, drop, I really don’t know - I shoot that rifle better offhand than just about anything else.
Another great video, Mr Tom. I always learn something from your videos. Sometimes, I have to think about it a while, but your videos really help. I'd like to meet you in person one of these days
Thanks 308 guy, and it's a small world so you never know. We might bump into each other before it's over?
Nice video Tom. I picked up a few points as I’m trying to figure out my issues with the Savage 111 trophy hunter 30-06. First point is getting a led sled, 2nd is watching the cross hairs after the shot. If I don’t get this rifle right, probably trade it up on a Bergara 30-06 for some Missouri whitetail deer hunting trip next year. I’m afraid to take my Remington 700 cdl 243 to Mizzu, thinking it might be underpowered from thos 300lb Monsters. Thanks for the advice,I enjoy your videos.
There's a video by "The Real Gunsmith" that blamed the #1 inconsistencies on the design of the front screw attachment. It puts a ton of upward pressure on the barrel causing erratic groups. He has a pretty simple fix for that.
Exactly the issue.
I owned one of these in .243 win. Ultra light. I found it was a two shot rifle. The barrel heated up fast. I found the fore end sensitive I did some floating work on it. It was a long time ago. I forgotten much about it. It shot fine if you held it to two shots.
Very interesting Tom, I'm going through a very similar development myself at the moment. Getting the consistency in groups from one range day to another is a problem.
Excellent work. May I suggest one thing, we ( Brit commonwealth, Australia I guess) call it "the 303", say " British" once or twice, then just 303 thereafter.
Cheers 🇦🇺
Looks like it's going to be an accurate rifle. Great video. Thanks for sharing.
I just picked up a new rifle a week ago, (Savage Axis II Predator in 22-250).. it shot great with "cheap" factory ammo, and last night I loaded up my first batch of hand loads for it... and now it is cold and really windy, and raining on and off.. so, here I sit watching others shoot ;)
I feel your pain Bro.
Tom, I had a. Browning model 78 back in the late 70s - early 80s. It was a 22-250 and was the most frustrating firearm I’ve ever dealt with. I tried numerous different loads and I could take it to the range on a Friday and get a sub 1/2 inch 5 shot group, then go back out on Sunday and the group would have grown to. 2. 1/2 inches. It also had a nasty habit of shifting it point of aim . I was living in a rural, farm area in NW Manitoba and used to shoot crows and gophers (Richardsons ground squirrels). This single shot rifle proved totally unsatisfactory and I wound up selling it and using a Parker Hail 25-06 bolt action action that held its POI really well and exploded varmints out to extended ranges. That was the last single shot rifle I ever owned and I’ve never be tempted to try another one.
My experience with light hunting rifles is that holding the forend gives me better results shooting off a rest. I usually place my hand between the forend and the bag. It also seems to reduce felt recoil.
Totally agree. Controlling the forend with you hand instead of a rest is the way to go. It is more difficult, granted, but more consistent if you put the work in.
I would go ahead and grip the fore-end and hold it fairly tight as if though I was sitting in a tree stand and about to shoot a deer at 200 yards, to shrink the groups. I have had no luck shooting rifles with some recoil without controlling the fore-end so I just gave up on that. Just my $0.02.
I totally agree. Using a Ledsled or sand bags can give you good groups. However, in my opinion, your rifle groups may change when shooting while holding a rifle the way you would while hunting. When testing groups I hold the rifle like I would when hunting. One hand on pistol grip/trigger and the other hand on the forearm while resting the center of the rifle on a long sand bag for support. This will give you a more realistic idea where your rifle bullet will hit when hunting. Good luck!
The lead sled should always be more accurate than a human shooter, but that's kinda the point. The lead sled removes a variable by isolating out shooter errors, particularly breathing and flinching. You can adjust your sights after load development, like you would with factory ammo. Removing shooter errors from the equation is a better answer in the load development phase.
Sir on the chronograph set up.
Get you some twine put a loop in it over barrel ,marked at the distance ya want for front but long enough to go through .
Saves a bunch of time n hassle setting up by ones self.
Wish I had thought of it myself..but ..guy at the range helped my Uncle set his up n gave him one..
As he says the Cats Meow.😂
Thank you once again Tom, I do not own a lead sled but do have a mechanical rest as you used in your initial test. Next time I get to the range I will concentrate on a firm hold and be fussy about fore end placement on the rest. I do wish and also wonder why Ruger went with bores of .313" and some reported as larger than .313" instead of .311" At least Hornady's bullet is .312" so that helps a bit I guess. Another thing I found was if I got to pushing the 150's at maximum listed loads with 4064 my groups opened up over those loaded 2 grains lighter, I will revisit this again when weather and time permits.
David you've got me curious about something. I wonder what the tolerance range for bore diameters is for most manufactures? I don't doubt that someone found a Ruger with a .313 bore diameter but I suspect all manufactures start with oversize tooling that produces bores however many thousandths oversize and then as the tooling wears it get's closer to nominal and then is replaced or adjusted somewhere around nominal? I'm sure they all have a tolerance range for bore diameter I just have no idea how big the range is?
If you go back to the bible of Sharpes Reloading Book - he has no hesitation saying the bullet should match the bore perfectly. Not a commonly held view. Pressures and obturation taken into account. He does have a point. I think I agree with him.
Most likely answer is the barrel harmonics of the load 2 gr lighter than max were the best match for that combination. A change as simple as a different primer or different seating depths would likely alter that, but whether it would be favorable or not, you would have to test.
Have you thought about trying Reloader 15? I have just got back into reloading & working up loads for my .303 is not real high on my list as I can't hunt with it in Illinois, but back in the day one of my buddies was giving me some real good ammo for my .308 using Reloader 15 with 150 grain bullets, I always wanted to try it with my .303 as the performance level is about the same.
Great shooting Tom. Beautiful rifle sir, She's a shooter.
Thanks Big T!
Here I am, trying to practice "simple living" with less stuff..........
Then I see this.
As a huge fan of both the .303 British cartridge and falling-block single shot rifles like the 1885 Winchester and the Ruger No. 1, I'm having a REALLY DIFFICULT RIME resisting the purchase of a new rifle I don't need after watching this video.
I;d hunt with that rifle with those loads with confidence that I'd never have an unfilled tag. ;}
Never been one to use my free hand to pinch the rear bag, I've always used my free hand to stabilize the forearm. I would like to see you try that. I think you will see tighter groups + that's the way you will shoot when hunting. Ron Spomer did a similiar test and he improved from 2" groups to under 1" groups at 100yds. You are real close to having an "interesting rifle" as someone once said.
Easttexan, I will try that the next I go to the range. Honestly as hardheaded as I am it's tough for me to do it but I suspect it will help? And I love how you phrased that about almost having an interesting rifle! Col. Whelen would be proud.
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving LOL....few will get that remark. Love your vids. Always learn something during.
Tom, I am a long term RUGER #1 lover, starting when I saw the first magazine ad back a good number of years ago. Are you aware that you can float a #1 fore end which provided zero contact between the fore end and the barrel. I have done so on a number of RUGER #1 rifles. I have made it a practice for years to float all hunting rifle barrel, and figured out a way to do so on the #1. It works, leaving the fore end solid and free floating.
As it stands with those groups an eight inch group at 200yds will kill adequately. We always sighted in at 25yds and adjusted so groups were an inch low. I'd fit a pachmeyer butt pad and try keep the eye relief of the scope to 3".
Im taking my sks out and rezero the sights. I swapped out the front post from a skinny tall to a wider and abit shorter post . I used tape to mark my old setting so i know were to lign up the post. Just need to do some fine adjustments now. Time to go out to the field range and shoot some groups. SKS is my favorite rifle
Dalan, I absolutely love shooting an SKS. My uncle bought one at a gun show when I was with him when I was about 12. He brought it back home and we cleaned it up. It was brand new and packed in cosmoline and I got to go over inch of that rifle. Then we went to the range and I had a ball shooting it and I absolutely loved those iron sights on it. And back then I think he paid $80 dollars for that rifle and it came with a giant can of ammo. I forget how many rounds but it was a lot!
And I hope that new post works out like you want it to. I just wish I still had the eye sight to be able to appreciate great iron sights like those again.
One of the issues with the Ruger #1 is the way the fore end is attached to the barrel. It can affect accuracy on some rifles. I had a #1V Varmint is that shot very well.. That's not always the case. The .303 British cartridge is also a hard kicker.
A gentleman of some renown once told me, "It's always the shooter until proven otherwise". Unfortunately I've found his advice far to accurate.
I think he nailed it with that statement!
Bingo! My short 60+ years of hunting reloading and collecting rifles that is the number one reason even though I will never admit it🤔😳😂
@@edwardabrams4972 😂😂😂 You 2 as nope I won't admit to that either.
I have enjoyed every one of your videos, and found food for thought in them, too. Thanks for sharing your interests with us.
I have noticed that your videos are edited for brevity while you shoot, which is great. But this obscures how much time you leave between shots. Do you wait a fixed amount of time, or just enough to reload, get back into position and on target? My own inclination with a light hunting rifle would be to fire groups with the least delay that still allows careful shooting. Then wait 5 minutes at least between groups to let that light barrel cool down. I’d enjoy hearing your thoughts on this.
Jonathan, I shoot exactly like you described. I don't wait between shots in a group but I do let the barrel cool down between groups. Sometimes it can be 20 minutes between groups depending on ambient temperature. And the things you're talking about is something I experimented with some time ago with my Winchester Featherweight in 7x57. The first 2 shots would always touch but then the 3rd and 4th would be flyers. Everyone I talked to about it said that it was because it was a Featherweight with a thin barrel and to let the barrel cool between shots and I did and it made a big difference. But I eventually figured out that the stock had warped and that the barrel was so close to touching the forend that after it heated up it was no longer free floated. Once I removed some wood for clearance the 3rd and 4th shot flyers completely went away. What I got from that is the barrel heating up doesn't affect accuracy on thin barrels, but they are very sensitive to anything that affects their harmonics. That might end up being the issue here? Or at least that might be what keeps it from shooting really small groups? But for the moment this rifle seems more than capable of shooting 1 MOA. If I ever want it shoot smaller I might have to work on this forend?
I have also found the thin factory barrels are 3 shot rigs
It does seem to hop up , would having a hold somewhere forward help?
thats pretty interesting so far! that one shoots! can you let me know what your bore slugs at?? cheers
I find a rifle zeroed in a sled ( which I don’t like at all ) will hit to a different point of impact being shot of hand. And the reason I don’t like them is a rifle and it’s components are meant to recoil. That sudden stop of movement by the lead sled is hard on equipment. I’ve seen scopes destroyed by them and the ones with the strap that goes over the fore end of the rifle will break a rifle stock. I new of one guy that broke three stocks using a sled like that and finally the shop that he bought the rifle from figured out what he was doing and how the stocks weee being broken and refused to replace anymore at there cost as they had replaced them twice for him at there cost.
My uncle has 2 number ones 22-250 and 300
Both are tack drivers. My grandpa killed an elk early 70’s @600 with a 4 power scope with the 300
I have read that the accuracy problems the Ruger #1s have, come from the fore end hanger. I had a Ruger #3 in 22hornet and the accuracy was terrible.
The best thing to do is start at the beginning and check each thing off as you go! The number one reason for fliers is the shooter just so you know so don’t assume anything just go down the list and let it be what it is not what you want it to be!
Lawernce, I can't imagine recoil was an issue with that one? Maybe it was just a bad one because anything in 22 hornet should shoot decent at the very worst.
Yes you’re on Sir!
in target shooting , we seem to have settled on a very slow burning powder . in fact it is a full case .
maybe i should explain , this is in classic 303 target using full wood un molested battle rifles with competition aperture sights .
i have two " Fultons regulated " 303 rifles , one no4 and one SMLE .
The SMLE is my favourite .
We shoot at 300 yards and out to 800 . [ from 500 and out the 303 is as good as 308 or even better ]
In this configuration the lighter projectiles don't shoot at all and 175 180 produce by far the best groups and around 1 MOA .
This amount of powder would not work on a shorter barrel sporting rifle .
I must apologize because I don't remember the powder but it was not as slow as " thail boss ".
I have quite a few No1 rifles, and I like them. But your comment of "We're Getting Some Variations" ought to be engraved on the barrel - that's the real "Ruger Warning" ;) I finally got my 220 Swift and 6.5X284 to shoot well by free floating the forearm.
Excellent content..
Thank you for the time u spent filming and editing so I could enjoy watchin ya shoot your No. 1. Still going to get some hunting in with the inability to eat venison? Would love to see some footage of this rifle on a hunt
Zach, I'm working on something for next season. They say this Alpha Gal thing will go away after a long enough time without getting bit by a tick so I'm going to try hunting really hard next year and see if I'm there yet? And I'm going to try and do a video once a month on scouting starting in January. I hunt mostly public land and it's tough to find a spot this late in the season. Actually it takes a lot of scouting to find even a marginal spot and constant scouting because spots change so fast on public land. Plus I'm using just about every free minute I have remodeling the new house right now. But I think it will be a lot of fun to go through the process of scouting public land, coming up with different strategies for different places, choosing the rifle, and then seeing if all comes together? Or not? And this is probably the rifle I would choose for most of hunts so hopefully we get to see what it does next season!
Great! I’ll be looking forward to the scouting vids, but yep you better get that house done. Thanks Tom. Merry Christmas
Well said n well done..
Shooting offhand is quieter if you stand out in the open and also a lot easier on the body so the flinch is minimized and your practical accuracy will come through. Lighter guns are better off hand in some cases but anyway that is a nicer way to shoot heavy calibers.
How do you measure the barrell on ruger1 rifles
Ya I got to build a lead sled too , I have to blame my eyes these days .
Winston, I know from experience that the eyesight can make it a lot more difficult!
Lighten the trigger up, bed the barrel. 😊😊
The trigger might help because HE is pulling the shot that is off each time! I have been guilty of this many times but sometimes would not admit it🤔😳
All your first shots are flyers. I wonder if the barrel has to warm up for consistency.
1st ( and Only ) shot is the most important.
One shot . . .
☆
Derek, after someone else mentioned their did the something it's got me wondering as well? I hear a lot about people trying different things with the No1's to get them shoot like bedding the forend and playing with the forend screw. I'm starting to think the serious accuracy problems are from the weight of the rifle but then that other stuff is to shave that last little bit off the group size? A couple of those groups were decent but would have been a lot better with out that first shot?
@@fjb4932 unless it's elk or something big and dangerous. Then, every shot counts. You don't want to chase that animal across hell's half acre, only to be beaten to it by a Grizzly. And you can't shoot the Grizzly that hasn't attacked you. And you can't go after another elk. So forget the long range nonsense, and the idea that one shot is all that is needed, and get in close enough to get a couple good shots. And practice taking them.
Best part of my Sunday. Like watching the NFL but better
LOL, thanks Sergeant!
What does that rifle scope combo weigh?
I don’t think the spot you rest the rifle matters as much as being consistent every time. I’ve noticed that with my lever guns that aren’t free floated.
Isn’t it going to be tiring carrying around that 20+ lb Leadsled when you go hunting?
My #1 in 2506 is a tack driver.
The one I have is too.
The Ruger No. 1 is a single shot rifle. Which means one does not have to seat the bullets to fit into a magazine. So, unless the bullet will not stay seated in the case, the extreme leade jump can be adjusted.
Also want to mention I have a No. 1 in .303 British as well.
Mr. River, looks to me like you shot four groups, all with one (the first round) a flyer and then three touching or near touching each other. How do you do that? By the way, those four groups all look good to zero the rifle and go hunting.
You nailed it on the bullet staying seated. I usually load my bullets .020" off the lands and when I checked the distance to the lands with these 150 grainers the bullet was completely out of the case when it touched.
And someone else mentioned that their worst shot in a group with their No1 was always the first one. Maybe that's just something with the cold bore shot on these? But you're right, all of these groups are more than good enough to go hunting with and I would be better off stopping right here and to just go hunting. But curiosity always gets me! LOL
@@TomRiverSimpleLiving December 2023: After I wrote and submitted that, I wondered if you didn't already know that. I do not recall hearing about conversation nor seeing that phenomenon of the first shot in my own trials. I did notice the PPU ammunition (duplicating the 174 grain Mk 7 ammo) grouped not incredibly, but sufficiently.
Truthfully I haven't done much experimentation with loadings and the rifle. Now I feel rather embarrassed, I should have attempted this before. I do have the reloading gear and components for this.
Thanks for the feedback to my observations.
Have to wait for enough spring to get out to the range.
Maybe try putting a sandbag or 2 under your elbow and trigger hand.
I see I'm not the only one who repurposes brake discs as counterweights. Mine sits under my Weber kettle 😁
Tom, I hate doing this to you. But I feel you're the most reliable person to ask. Why is nothing cambered in .29 cal?
Keith, I have no idea but my guess is after they came out with the 30-06 and the 7x57 everyone just figured, why bother? LOL
Tom buying a ruger #1 used pros and cons ?
Barrel life! I hear it's really tough to get a No1 re barreled. Other than that they are a tough rifle and because they are a single shot they generally don't get a whole lot of rounds through them. But I would shy away from cartridges that are known to be tough on barrel life like a 257 Weatherby.
Love you're content, but you're shooting skills need help. Question whatever happened with the Model 70 257 Roberts? You never finished that series after JB bore pasting the bore, etc?
I like 4064 imr and 150 grain hot core bullets in my 30-06 loads that load seems to group good in all the 30-06 bolt guns I’ve shot my load in I got my load from my knowledgeable uncle who is been past for some time but he was hand loading clear back in the 1940’s and he seemed to know what shot and what didn’t and I picked up a quite few loads before he got cancer and died
Scotty,
I sure do wish you included some more data: grains of IMR-4064, COAL, primer, hell . . .even case used.
But at least it's a starting hint, so cain't look a gift horse in the mouth.
Thanks. ☆
@@fjb4932 I used Remington standard primers and 52 1/2 grains and seat the bullets 20 to 30 thousand from the lands I been using Remington case’s
I have a tc pro hunter in 270 I've shot 130 grain ammo for thirty years this gun patterns like buck shot this went on two years one day I found some 150 grain ammo an magic happened three shot group one ragged hole
These single shots do tend to be load sensitive and my No1 B in 270 definitely is.
What powder.
what diameter bullet r u shooting
Warren, the Speers are .311".
see if a .308 fits down the barrel@@TomRiverSimpleLiving
I've heard of people doing that and it worked but accuracy isn't good?@@warrenporter302
could be i only know what worked for me. i only have one 303 LOL@@TomRiverSimpleLiving
Warren I'll have to try that sometime but first I have something else to try. I just ran across some new loadings for the 303 that I'm hoping to try this weekend and it should be really interesting?@@warrenporter302
Ruger #1 rifles have a reputation for vertical stringing as the barrel heats up. Because of the design, the barrel, obviously, is not and cannot be free-floated. It is a hunting gun, not a target rifle.
I have Ruger #1 tastes, but I am on a CVA Scout budget.
You’re actually in the area for a Lee Enfield 150 grain spitzer bullet at 2,685-2,723 fps so your loads for 150 grain bullet are on the money.
Thing about reloading you ain't never satisfied
Allow the sled to rest in front of the trigger guard...
Check out the “Real Gunsmith , Ruger No 1 and Sharps actions “ he talks about forearm screw pressure problems with accuracy.
Sir, I am a Ruger No1 fan. I have the same model as yours in .45/70 also two others. If I may suggest try shooting from the bench but holding the fore end as you would when hunting allowing a snug fit in the shoulder and resting your right hand on the bench rest. Accurately can be enhanced by floating the barrel either by using bedding compound between the fore end hanger and fore end or simply inserting a thin shim to relieve the contact point at the fore end tip. A gunsmith friend who also has a .45/70 No1 says that accuracy problems occurred with No1’s some years ago due to poor quality barrels. All mine shoot great. Good luck with that lovely rifle and great cartridge. 🇬🇧 I have a copy of an article on the Ruger No1 accuracy improvement from an old magazine which I will gladly share if you like to let me have your email address.
Check out mr Dennis Pritchard channel he is very knowledgeable on ruger #1 he beds all the stocks on his rifles
I have been following him for some time and his channel is growing too because he cares and is down to earth kind of guy!
I have a 243 single shot new England
Since it's a .303 it's too bad a guy couldn't get his hands on some cordite to try out.
👍👍
Get a Garmin chronograph.😊
Chrono tells a story first shot slow and low all the others are very close and close fps .
👍
No one does load testing shooting freehand. Makes no sense whatsoever.
Some people are great shots some are ok shots most are less than adequate and some are just terrible! Tom I think you fall right between less than adequate and terrible!! Of all the RUclips channels I watch this one by far has the worst running average for groups size!!!
Terry, I take that as a complement because no matter what I'm honest about my results be it good, bad, or indifferent. And fortunately for me I don't watch other channels much. The only person I'm competing against is myself and the rifle I'm trying to figure out. Besides, how boring would that be to just shoot little tiny groups all of the time! LOL
He who cast the first stone🤔😳😂 everyone is an expert! Not! Being a good shot or not doesn’t make a channel good, it’s the people who run it🤔😳 I am retired and spend about 8 hours a day on watching channels and this is one of the best on rifles but what do I know after 60+ years of hunting reloading and collecting rifles! You should be Thanking Tom for all the effort he spends trying to educate people who like rifles and hunting who only helps our cause!
and that is the reason I watch you channel and Know it’s one of the best out there!
That seems a little unkind ! I have to say though, that our .303 was not exactly developed on light rifles !
I wish you well on your journey Tom, hope you get where you want to go.
Go see Randy from Randy's custom guns.. he has solved the real problem with Ruger number 1s