Vietnamese Ambush Tactics: When the jungle speaks Vietnamese
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- A look at Vietnamese Ambush Jungle Tactics according to a US platoon leader guide from 1967 that was based on US experiences and perception of the Vietnamese forces.
Note by Vietnamese forces in I mean the People’s Army of Vietnam (PAVN) generally called "North Vietnamese Army" (NVA) at the time and the National Liberation Front (NLF) of South Vietnam usually called "Viet Cong".
Cover modified/improved by vonKickass.
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» SOURCES «
U.S. Military Assistance Command Vietnam, Office of Assistant Chief of Staff J-2: What a Platoon Leader should know about the Enemy’s Jungle Tactics. Armed Forces of R.V.N. Office of Joint General Staff, October 1967.
Telfer, Gary L./Rogers, Lane/Fleming Jr., V. Keith: Fighting the North Vietnamese 1967. U.S. Marines in Vietnam. History and Museums Division Headquarters, U.S. Marine Corps: Washington D.C., USA, 1984.
Anderson, M.; Arsnten, M.; Averch, H.: Insurgent organization and Operations: A Case Study of the Viet Cong in the Delta, 1964-1966. Rand: Santa Monica, California, 1967.
Holliday, L. P.; Gurfield, R. M.: Viet Cong Logistics. Rand: Santa Monica, California, 1968.
Marines and Military Law in Vietnam: Trial By Fire
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was this video first private and then made public or something. it came out 30 minutes ago but this comment is 3 days old.
Brilliant Channel!! 😎😎👍👍
I love your immediate recognition of potential flaws in your source, much better than a certain major history youtuber's atrocious account of what the Cuban perspective of the missile crisis supposedly was
@@titan4110 patreon.com/join/mhv/
6:43 they are. Hight. If ambushed troops are below ( in a creek or small river) ambushers would fire from coast, and if in elevated position friendly fire risk would be minimal.
Edit: there were much much more advanced ambushes by USSR in Afganistan and then Russia. For example they would place "minefield" but instead of mines there wouls be movement detectors which would radio automaticly artilery battery 15 km away. Most famous one was in Chechnia when convoy of 3000 rebells went in one of tgose ambushes. They like to say it was 150 ppl vs 3000 bur in reality there were several batteries of rocket and "normal" artillery. Anyway less than 300 survived. It was especially usefull in mountain terain. Like in Afganistan, Tajikistan or Chechnia.
For the U-Shaped ambush I imagine it could be used effectively on things like hills, mountains and valleys. If you are firing down you onto your enemies you don’t need to worry about friendly fire against the people on the other side.
I was taught from this book in basic training, Ft. Polk, LA 1972. Geoff Who notes going prone enhances the downward incoming fire. Busting ambushes is not easy. 40 mm grenades and 90mm recoilless rifle fire was highly recommended. Geoff Who thanks Drill Sergeant White and Drill Sergeant Black...where ever you are.
@@Mechanized85 don’t march into terrain that facilitates a U shaped ambush without first scouting the flanks of your avenue of approach.
In retreat, one wing of the U will be going in the wrong direction.
@Marcelo Henrique Soares da Silva An avenue of retreat is critical in planning an ambush.
@@AKUJIVALDO Yep but the ambush is usually a hit and run against a superior foe.
Hey MHV, a Vietnamese with my grandpa as a Vietcong soldier here. Below is my grandpa's description of the use of U-shaped Ambush tactic:
- First of all, the commander of the ambush platoon set up the formation in a almost rectangle way, but not too overly stretched to maintain the movement between one spot to another with out being overexposed. The formation that is ideal for the ambush is set up a perpendicular column to the trail, with at least one machine gun.
- Then the following "wings" or "flanks" are set up as follow: One flank is almost parallel to the trail with up-close range, with a slight angle about 6-10 degrees to the trail and with the crews made up of "automatic weapons" such as assault rifles, submachine guns, etc. The other flanks then set up with an angle about 20-45 degrees to the trail with close-medium range contains the rest of the platoon. This way the prior flanks will deals at much damage to the enemy as possible, while the latter flank provide suppressive fire to make sure the enemy will be passive for the remaining of the ambush (as we still use those bolt-action rifles from WW2, we cannot afford all of our men to have an AK)
- Also depends on the availability of cover along the pathway, the formation might adapt to it as to minimised casualties as much as possible and set traps to the possible positions that the enemy might take cover. This is pretty much common in all other ambush tactics as well.
- If the ambush success and the enemy call in CAS or Medevac through the use of smoke grenade, depends on the situation and the enemy strength remains, the commander will either give chase, try to encircle (quite rarely used), or slowly retreat back to the base
*Note* that this formation require a lot of manpower, ammunition, setting up time and quite a *high risk- high reward* type, we usually resorted to L-shaped or V-Shaped formation
Interesting. Please convey my respects to your grandfather for his heroic services.
Thank you so much for this. I'd pay to get to get to listen irl to a Vietnamese soldier fighting for the North.
@@neophyte1994 Well if you have a chance to go to Vietnam, you should go to the countryside because the chance of finding veterans who's still alive is slightly higher than in urban cities. My family is a little different though, as my mom's father is a Viet Cong soldier and my Dad's father is a South Vietnamese recruits' trainer, so you can tell that family gathering is great
@@khoipham1657I really would love to visit Vietnam, I had always been interested in it, and yes not going to urban areas. I am very curious how those family meetings are hahah
Thanks for being able to bring up a often overlooked view on the way, and if you don't mind me asking; What was your grandpas opinion of the US Soldier (as a person, indiviually) during and after the war?
"The National Liberation Front of South Vietnam don't surf!" just doesn't roll off the tongue as well.
"National Liberation Front of Vietnam", not to be confused with the "Vietnamese National Liberation Front" - those wankers.
@@filipeamaral216 nice MP reference
@@filipeamaral216 splitters!
@@filipeamaral216no no no no no we should be united against the common enemy! THE NATIONAL FRONT FOR VIETNAMESE LIBERATION???
NO NO the americans!
@@somethinglikethat2176 Ah another Life Of Brian Fan! Excellent!
You use a U-shaped ambush when you have the height advantage on both sides, that way everyone's raining down hellfire on the enemy and the risk of friendly fire is minimized.
Nice one.
This would still present a hazard to forces on the opposite side. Bullets usually ricochet, and will do so at an upward trajectory. Anyone who has dealt with planning ranges will be familiar with Surface Danger Zones (SDZs). I personally think that this formation is more likely a fanciful imagining by a J2 staff officer, or the misperception of a PL who had experienced something more like an L-shaped ambush. An ambush, especially on the receiving end, is a violent, chaotic affair. Recollections and experiences are bound to be jumbled. I have doubts that the “U-shaped” ambush was common, due to the risks, though I’m also sure that some enterprising NVA PL probably tried it, and probably learned dome harsh lessons from doing so.
@@Ostenjager L-shaped, V-shaped, Z-shaped, Triangular, and other ambush formations carry a similar level of hazard for your own guys, especially when you consider that with most of them you have to stick some of your bravest/dumbest directly in front of The Enemies' path of travel and that ambushes are almost always initiated with explosives of some kind, with Claymores being the go-to since their creation around the time of the Vietnam war. If you're laying an ambush ahead of time, more likely than not you're laying it in a location that affords your guys maximum cover and concealment, or at least an area wher you could dig and pile up the dirt to make some cover with minimal visable disturbance, if you're ambushing The Enemy on a rock canyon in the Southwest or something else that would be a severe ricochet hazard, all bets are off to begin with just based on the difficulty of hiding your forces from view.
Besides all of that, we're talking war here. People die in war, it's unavoidable and pretty much every attempt to avoid the deaths of your own people usually ends up making the problem worse. This is one of the main things they had to drill out of me when I trained as a professional guerilla fighter, I always wanted to believe that I could use my brain to keep as many Patriots alive as possible while eradicating The Enemy in totality and it just ain't so. You gotta do what you gotta do and if that means some of your guys get hit by friendly fire, that's unfortunate but you can't cry over it or wreck your combat effectiveness by questioning yourself if you could've done better.
A deep draw is a good spot for a U ambush. You need a U because they can jet up into the brush in the other side of the draw and circle back on you or jet straight up the bottom of the draw if there aren't ambushers to block it.
@@salty_armorer4027 that doesn't sound LGBTQ friendly. Not even Hermaphrodite friendly.
I remember training for ambush. The usual practice was to scream contact and the direction, say contact right, and move through the ground firing from the hip, (Australian Army, using the British derivative of the FN). The expectation was that if you were dozy enough to walk into a trap the most likely way out would be through the fire line. The other ways would almost certainly be mined. We might be tempted to throw grenades because you should not leave tools for the enemy.
Yeah the British doctrine on getting ambushed is just push through the ambush line as fast and aggresively as you can, some of you will get hit but its better then all of you if you sit and try and shoot it out with people in an advantageous position. Would be difficult to do with a slr though as an ambush is the exact situation you want to be able to switch to full auto and put down long bursts as you're pushing.
Yup. Assault through the enemy position, putting concentrated fire on a break through point. They planned this, you can't get out any other way.
As an Aus Army Platoon Commander in the 1970's we were still taught the counter ambush was to call Ambush Left or Right and swing immediately into the direction and use fire and movement to get out of there as fast as possible. It was their selected Killing Zone and you wanted to be out of it.
Also we were taught to not cross clearings like that but conduct obstacle crossing drills, ie stop, prop and send forward scouts round the edge of the clearing. The clearing itself was considered a fire lane. Once you had secured the far side you could move forward by sections to cross the clearing.
It was common knowledge that the VC and NVA liked to 'hold onto your belt' so the practice as shown in the Battle of Long Tan was to walk the artillery towards your own position.
For a good view of the Aussie approach in 1967 watch the movie "Danger Close", it is about Long Tan. A few historical inaccuracies but definitely gives a good idea of the complications of jungle warfare.
@Brooke B it true but with a vet or hardern soldier a short 2 round burst is more prefer ; the problem is with new troop who in they first battle tend to hold they trigger and run out of ammo fast ; 40mm m79 was most care by our troop during being ambush by khmer rouge in Cambodia cause if you heard the round you live if you don't you die and if not still badly wound with sharpnel same can say for the ambushing what interest is how the ambushing khmer rouge will tend to flee after few round if they find the firing from enemy was more control then panic ; when there are new troop who tend dump they ammo they tend to stick around longer knowing the force they meet are not fully vet and hardern ; another tactic is hiding in a hole along the road waiting for the tank passing the road before they pop up to hit the troop carrier m113 or truck that behind the tank and best way to take those ditch out are 40mm grenade launcher hence we made and copy of the 40mm round 50 cal and 30 cal are useless vs those ditch / hole along the road side ( btw those rpg guy are pretty much suicide if you think about it the chance of they running away is low at Cambodian terrain is flat the road is flank by rice field or just flat land
We had those kind of drills too when I was in the army in the early 2000s. I'm from a commonwealth country too. Wonder how those work in real life. At that time I thought it seemed pretty silly and impractical and we were just going through the motion. Our instructors had never been in a war themselves and looked like they had no idea what they were doing too.
For some Vietcong unit, during night, certain unit decided to go for hand to hang combat. The strategy they use is very ingenious, they undress themselves down to under wear and carrying necessary things, so if you get close to the enemy grab them you feel cloth or webbing you stab them, and if you feel skin means your comrade is by your side.
My grandfather told me about it.
What if the US soldier slept naked lol just kidding your grandfather is badass
@@imsmirk69 😂
Did you get a chance to ask him, was the end result of the Vietnam war and the government that now rules it, actually worth all that loss of life?
@@robertmaybeth3434 and yes I did, he mention it was definitely worth it considering how many lives commited and volunteers to the cause in the name of independence.
"I am the Lorax, I speak for the trees. And the trees say..... I dont know, I dont speak Vietnamese"
Beat me to it
@@vunguyenhoang3747 the trees said "DMM"
@@vunguyenhoang3747 that's not so helpful when you don't know how the markings alter the letters. most people don't know Đ is "Dzh" unless they are from europe for example, same with ê , í , and á, and these; ồ ,ế ,ơ ,ạ , and đ , are fairly uncommon in general.
"For another type of clever ambush, the T-Shirt Merchandise Ambush, here is a great example at 6:05 of this video!" 😎
I can already tell that this is gonna be super interesting
Right? Just by the title
6:03 that merch announcement was a perfect example of an ambush. Did not see that coming.
Viennese jungle tactics, finding home after a durchzechte Nocht.
My dad learned this while there and taught me as a kid when we were hunting: to avoid being seen, never use trails or roads. Walk through the middle of the forest instead. Don’t pull on saplings to help you climb a hill because it shakes the tops. Stop, look, and listen every few steps. Walk on the sides of your feet to minimize the leaf crunching. Don’t cross rivers at the easiest and shallowest places because that’s where the ambushes are likely.
[ just imagine "Fortunate Son" playing in the background. ]
It wears me out that every movie in the era plays the same songs 🎵😩😫😭
By an Austrian CCR cover band.
Welcome to the rice field
Incessant use of Fortunate Son.
GET SOMEEE
MHV: I fear no man.
But that thing..
"Jungle"
It scares me.
i highly recommend the book "Street without joy", written by Bernard Fall.
It describes many Viet-Minh tactics that were later also used against the americans and the experiences the french made during the Indochina war.
Indeed, I found Fall and his writings very interesting in the early to mid 1970s. American memoirs were non existent or were just so 'cliche' (the drugs, the fraggings the disembowling of pregnant women etc) as to be virtually unreadable. The first US memoirs that really 'broke the mold' and gave an honest retelling of of the 'experience on the ground' were Caputo's 'Rumor of War' and Frederick Downs 'In the Killing Zone'--ESPECIALLY Downs book. By the time he got there it was mid 1967 and the average company and platoon had some NCOs and Squad leaders who had learned how to move thru the jungle with some expertise.
Check out “Charlie Rangers” great book on the LRRP’s
@@silenciummortum2193 Sounds good;
I also have to recommend a 'general campaign' Vietnam war book that came out in the Middle 1960s by an author named S.L.A. Marshall (a military historian of 'some substantial' repute) called' Battles in The Monsoon; book covers a series of operations in the Central Highlands by the 1st Air Cav and the 101 Abn. It's a 'men in combat' type of story like WW2
you can also take into account all tbe mistreatment the american soldiers did to women and girls as old as 12 or below. Dig deeper in history just like the My Lai event. Find out what the soldiers did before killing everyone. Plus that kind of practice by the smericsns was so common it was considered a unofficial mass protocal. You will rarely find that kind of info since the media is trying rlly hard to cover the atrocity.
You can use U-shape where the enemy in the middle is in higher ground or lower ground.
Higher would provide cover for the target. Lower would be ideal.
@@edi9892 that depends on the high
"Mortars are no used unless they can be based where overhead clearance is available." My uncle, who served against the Burmese Communist Party in the 1950s talked about an incident with mortars. They were trying to take this pillbox when this squad set up a mortar position to provide cover fire. The shell hit one of the branches and fell on top of the charging infantry! Thankfully, it was a dud.
imagine the heart rate lol
"Can you hear Fortunate Son already?"
No. But I can hear the trees singing "Moi Buoc Ta Di".
What part of "Didi mao" don't you understand?
- Bart Simpson
I love your sense of humor. It's so quick and dry. Right to the point with the info and jokes.
I like how you're clearly indicating the perspective of this document you'd got from the start of the video.
Only 25% of soldiers were drafted, so I wouldn't say they relied "heavily" on conscripts. The rate of conscripted soldiers in Vietnam was lower than it was during WWI, WWII, and Korea.
The percentage of conscripts vs. volunteers would be hard to verify. My father "volunteered" for the Air Force when his draft number was about to be called up and he was almost guaranteed to get to join the army (which was building up for Vietnam). A friends father joined the Navy instead of being drafted.
The general quality of the draftees from the Greatest Generation was superior to that of the Baby Boomer draftees.
@@warpartyattheoutpost4987 You have no basis to make that claim. You're just saying it because they're called "the greatest generation" so that sounds better compared to the people who didn't win their war.
@@warpartyattheoutpost4987 meh. One generation had to fight a just war in which the USA and its allies were attacked, and almost always had the support of the local population. The others had to go far away to a place where the majority just wanted them to go home, without reasonable casus belli. You can't compare them.
@@creatoruser736, I'm a U.S. Army veteran. I've met soldiers from all generations. Generally the Baby Boomers have been the worst but they do have some exceptions.
U shaped ambush is used in a valley, gully or stream bed.....when the preceved crossfire is actually angled downwards.
At first I thought it was one of the old videos.
Love seeing new uploads on this channel. Every time there is something interesting.
U-shaped ambushes are used when friendly forces hold ground higher than the axis of advance of the enemy, such as hillside ambushes on roads in Afghanistan, during both the Soviet-Afghan War and OEF.
That was an outstanding video. Makes me miss Army-ing...almost.
The sorties I’ve heard, those VC were fierce foes and earned respect. I didn’t fight that war, but I salute the brave sobs that met my Brothers on the field.
We Warriors don’t start ‘em
Thanks for your comment. Nowadays many people are trying to say that vietnamese can't aim due to the kill counts. But they don't consider facts like: vietnamese purposefully don't deal lethal blow to demoralize enemy troops. Or the fact that there were vietnamese soldiers on both sides (or when they look at total vietnamese deaths and compare it to american while most vietnamese deaths were civilians that were raped and massacred by soldiers murican) or the fact that american soldiers were trained with better equipments vs the rice farmer who had older gen weapons. Or the fact that the war continued even after american troops retreated. I feel like those people who are trying to boost their americans ego are truly disrespecting their soldiers who died on battlefield. It's such a disgusting sight to see nowadays.
"Charlie had claymores strung up in the tree line, blew a whole fucking platoon to pieces..."
U-shaped ambush works well with obsticle & terrain factors- ridge lines and valleys, manmade walls etc. These types of activities can also be conducted with mortars and artillery without exposing the opposing side of your ambush with friendly fire.
I always wanted a video like this thank you Military History Visualized for making this video.
After the US withdrawn their regular force in Vietnam, the NVA/VC ambushes became much more sophisticated. They sent a small force to lure the ARVN troops to a kill zone and relied on massed artillery barrage to destroy them instead of using melee engagement because they enjoyed a larger and better supplied artillery forces.
More like better arty force not larger ; one advantage that north have over the south was the 122 and 130mm have longer range then 105-155mm of the south and only 175mm beat they range but then it slower to reload and tend to lost in counter arty fight
@@jerryle379 was this soviet doctrine?
@@jerryle379 General Cao Van Vien for a long time wanted to expand the number of 175mm batteries but the US refused. The South had a large number of guns, but those are mostly WW2 vintage and they also lacked ammo to run them after 1972 due to reduced US supplies. Having a large arsenal is useless if you cannot supply and maintain them. Now the Afghanistan government have same problems when USS specialists left the country.
@@Darth_Glorious They didnt lack amunition as we shown we still have enough 155 and 105 american round even this day and that after war in Cambodia and war vs china ; don't buy in the crap that they lost cause they lack amunition lol which isnt ; more 175mm won't help as it easy beaten by 130mm in dual arty fight ; american retired 175mm for a reason
So against the ARVN there is more of a advantage in firepower?
I recognize a lot of the supposed VC tactics from Che Guevara's book "On Guerilla Warfare". He too recommended attacking the rear units in a column, using captured equipment wherever possible (including most importantly - fresh boots !) and integrating the fighting forces with the local economy during non-fighting periods.
One thing that he strongly recommended that I don't think the VC adopted was the need to ensure that each independent unit had a skilled and qualified cigar roller !
funny thing is vc are heavy smokers
after playing rising storm vietnam, i know everything possible about making legs explode
Ah yes the one true ptsd simulator. You can be an US marine defending a base while your friend drop around you by gunfire from nowhere, or be a vietcong soldier hiding in a tunnel waiting while your allies burn outside from napalm
@@anhduc0913 Or just be one of the unfortunate guys in the Southern Forces who got Barbecued/bombed by their own commanders, same applies to the Northern Forces if they have bad commanders lols
Edit: Or be team-killed by your FNG Teammates
@@joaquincentino634 The screams is delightful though atleast.
@@anhduc0913 Yeah, I agree, but it's more delightful if it was the enemy who's screaming
@@joaquincentino634 just FNG things.
You should collaborate with someone in Vietnam to see if there are any Vietnamese language primary source documents that could fill in the gaps here. @Luna oi! has done some content featuring Vietnamese war veterans and another where she visited the Cu Chi tunnels historical site.
Agree, collaboration takes the work to the next level. Because usually foreign language sources continue developing, while English sources have moved on to a different topic so the information becomes out of date.
She is also a commie sympathiser, so it would be wise to take what she says with a VERY fine amount of salt.
@@9krio why bother discussing in first place if you immediately discount other differing perspective?
MHV style discussion will have many primary source though, not like Arjun-level commentary fiasco
@@dimasakbar7668: all I am saying is she might twist the conversation into a certian bias.
@@9krio She's not a communist sympathizer. She's a communist, as is common in Vietnam due to their victory in the "American war" as they call it. You should take everything on the internet with plenty of salt, including your own preconceptions.
Fighting in a war like Vietnam appears to be 1000 times scarier than something like the gulf war for American soldgiers.
I was in Iraq and agree 10000 percent
It's a totally different world, soldiers today are coddled, we spend over $900,000 to keep on soldier in Afghanistan for one year, they hardly ever make contact with armed enemy etc.
Aside from the terrain, it's not too much different from Afghanistan and Iraq where you had the enemy blending in the with the civlians. While IEDs may not have been as big a thing in Vietnam, I believe the VC used them along with convetional mines. It was so bad that many troops took to riding on the top of their M113 APCs with sandbags lining the floor of the troop compartment. Lastly, in some cases in Afhganistan and Iraq, the eneymy knew to tryu and "hug" us and coalition forces in order to negate their greater firew power advantage knowing that we liked to pin the enemy with small arms fire and take them out with air power or artillery.
True of many past wars, it does show how far warfare has come that it’s got to this point.
The main difference were the vietnamese.........they are ready to pay everything for victory!!!!!!
This was very interesting, thanks for covering, it would be good to see other tactical manuals covered from other wars in the future
This is that one time you can't show off a German field manual line in German 🥺🤪😬
Nice
I'm sure he could have found one on counter insurgency about Poland, post war Germany, or more than likely the Eastern Front but it would have been weird.
06:50 in that kind of deployment amateurs deploy 50-50 but you need to do 10-90 and to make those on 10 fire later and to on first let 90 fire first so that enemy would rush in opposite direction to the 10 and even smaller in numbers they deal significant casualties as element of surprise
Love the vietnam content. More please!
(Also love the WW2 content, of course.)
A book I have recently finished is called, A Street without Joy. It was about the French and the Indochina. It wasn't purely as an after action review, but written by a journalist who went there. I thought it was a good read.
The U shape ambush, as many others here already explained, was partially done with different elevations, notably in valleys. Sometimes, it may have also been fairly level but with plenty of cover provided. For an example, the left side may start shooting first to get the ambushed element focus their defense and fire to the left side. The enemy's left flank might fall back to cover. The ambushed element might either start charging or keep focus on the left side until the enemy's right side starts firing or charge in. It seems suicidal but they did it to help level the playing field.
But we also can be sure what one platoon would define as an U, another one might describe it as a V. It can be very tricky to tell while in battle. lol
playing fortunate son quitely in the background makes the video instantly better lol.
follow up videos to this would be awesome.
When you're enemy is willing to sacrifice +1 million of its own soldiers without blinking an eye, perhaps its time to pack up and leave.
Sorry, we didn’t bother referring to how the Japanese or nazis felt about their war when killing them
U shaped Ambushes normally don't take place at close range and they usually draw you into a U shaped ambush instead of initiating one right off the bat, terrain depending of course, and if you want to know about the CAP platoons, read a book called 'The Village'.
Some folks are born, made to wave the flag
Oh they're red white and blue.
And when the band plays "hail to the chief", oh they aim the canon at you, lord
It aint me
IT AINT ME!
@Pro Tengu he can be rich and white wherever he wants, as long as he doesnt send people to their demise for his own gain
5:40 Claymores used in defense would often be found to be turned 180 deg. overnight.
U shaped ambush is what we call "Box ambush" in our country. Usually the troops on each side target are on varying heights/ similar heights. However, their position must have difference in height with the target. In many cases, the flanking fires become overhead fire if the ambush is not properly executed or the sights are not checked.
My favourite video of yours so far! Great work! Thanks!
Woooh yeah baby! This is what I’ve been waiting for!
I can tell you this from Iraq. When normally busy streets or markets are empty during the day, it's about to go down.
Combat indicators. Was the official term no?
@@kekistanimememan170 I can't remember man. I've drank and slept since then. Spidey senses I think.
@Denise👉𝔽**СК МЕ - СНЕℂ𝕂 𝕄 Still not a healthy idea to have a cross-fire like that. Bullets ricochet. Best to keep in in a line or in an L or a V shape.
Had a friend of a friend who worked with MACSOGV, POW’s were the biggest source of info, of course, there are dangers in that.
My neighbor the Vietnamese helicopter pilot told how the VC were “self sufficient “. Tax Collectors. They just took what they wanted.
Nice video
The VC were fully supported by the people against your murdering helicopter pilot.
@@johnsmith1474
communi dicere troglodytam
@@---ii8hl It wasn't a civil war. The North illegally infiltrated the South early on and continued to do so.
@@---ii8hl No its not a civil war.
@@---ii8hl The puppet regime in the south was propped up entirely by US military intervention. 4 million Vietnamese died in their 30 year war for independence first against the French and then against the Americans and their autocratic puppet state. Ho Chi Minh asked the Americans to pressure the French into giving them independence after WW2 but Truman said no cause he was a shit who cared more about upholding French imperialism.
Great video. Not a lot of people make content about Vietcong tactics. You are as always really good with digging up information.
Glad you enjoyed!
A very unknown fact of the Vietnam war was the US actually setoff 7-12 times more ambushes on the Vietnamese during their time in Vietnam then were set off against US troops.
When you actually understand the Vietnam War this makes sense. Many people for some reason think the US was in Vietnam trying to unite North and South Vietnam and don't even know the US never launched ground operations against North Vietnam. So what the US was actually doing was trying to prevent the communist rebels and the North Vietnamese military from overthrowing the government of South Vietnam. This meant the US troops were much more often the forces sitting in ambush waiting for enemy troops from trying to sneak into South Vietnam through the Ho Chi Min Trail and so on.
Yup. So the Vietcongs had to venture into enemy territory and attempt to ambush a patrol, while the Americans could set up more long term positions or prepare hasty ambushes using the home field advantage?
@@vaclavjebavy5118 The US, South Vietnamese and other allied nations (Australia, South Korea, ect) would setup ambushes on both the routes they thought the communist forces were using to enter into South Vietnam as well as along routes to their bases they operated out of. This was to prevent the communist forces from being able to launch large attacks against allied bases or cities without the allied forces having a forewarning of the enemy coming and what direction they were coming from.
@@PhillyPhanVinny I see, thank you!
@David Erickson I'm sorry but that isn't correct. US military units now and back then did have lots of gear but we don't now or back then carry that gear with us on every mission. When the often quoted "100 pounds of gear" is quoted it is including a solders personal equipment, food, their sleeping bag and all kinds of other things that they don't need when going out on a mission. Most of that stuff stays back at that solders FOB.
As for when setting up for an ambush a select area that it is thought the enemy will go through is selected and in that area we will set up the ambush and have all the gear needed already there and setup. So no "sneaking" is needed. I'm not sure why you quoted that either. I never said anything about US forces needing to sneak anywhere. I said the communist forces needed to sneak into South Vietnam (which they did) to be able to resupply their troops in the South. When they were trying to sneak in is when US and other allied forces were launching ambushes off against the communist forces.
That is also why the US and allied forces set off many more ambushes against the communist forces then were set off against US troops. The allied forces knew the enemy forces needed to try to get resupply out to their troops in South Vietnam so setting off ambushes against those resupply forces made complete sense. For communist forces setting up ambushes they often had to guess where to set ambushes up because US forces (especially later in the war) were not leaving their FOB for almost any reason.
As for you, what unit and what MOS were you actually in Vietnam? A "tunnel rat" was not a real job in the Vietnam war. It was just something individual solders would be asked to do by their leadership when a tunnel was found. Asking because you refer to US troops as "they" rather than "we" and because "tunnel rat" is by far the most common thing people claiming to have served in the Vietnam War say they did. Because very often in the years after Vietnam anyone who climbed into a tunnel in Vietnam now claims they were a "tunnel rat" which as I said was not a real job in the military.
@David Erickson "Tunnel Rat" is not a real job in the US military. Did you actually serve in Vietnam? Asking because I am from Vietnam and have spoken to lots of veterans of the American War in Vietnam. And so many of them say that is by far the most clear sign of anyone making up their service in Vietnam. I have been told no soldiers claim to be a "tunnel rat" because that is not a real job in the military. That was just a mission that a very small amount of solider were told to go on when a tunnel was found. Those tunnels were almost always abandoned when anyone would go in them also. I was told the only remaining danger of those tunnels was traps left within them for when an American or South Vietnamese solder who would go down in them to check them out.
Charlie in the trees! The fighting spirit of the Vietnamese has always been fierce and determined.
U shaped ambushes are typically used when both opposing flanks are at higher elevation than the ambushed unit (i.e. the ambushers are firing down)...Semper Fi
U shaped formation. Perhaps the 3rd dimension was in effect high up shooting down or low down shooting up
I just finished listening to Fortune Son and Napalm Sticks to Kids, what a coincidence!
the U shape ambush is a tactic that needs a good vantage point so that they can avoid friendly fire therefore they can concentrate heavy firepower on the enemy forces
i thought they airburst morters to clear the canopy and returned to normal bombardment when it could get through
By everything I read,you can use mortars against troops under a canopy with devastating effects (treebursts), but here I think he means that shooting out from under a canopy is not an advisable option
@@viandengalacticspaceyards5135 ah ty
U- shaped, the sides placed on High Ground shooting down into a vale.
It's good that you mention the general attitude of US Forces in Viet Nam. The documentary "Sir, No Sir" covers how the rank and file and junior officers of the US successfully ended US involvement in Viet Nam. As someone who was nearly old enough and would have been involved had things lasted longer, I was definitely paying attention, yet I lost that information in all the foofaraw of the public media. A few weeks after I turned 18 and I was in a tavern legally for the first time, a friend's older brother, home on leave, seeing my long hair, bought me a beer and told me "you're doing the right thing. Whatever you have to do, STAY OUT OF IT!" That's when I began understanding the US morale problem.
It's great to see you cover Vietnam. Such an interesting conflict. Hope you follow this one with more. Great job!
6:52 the u shape ambush works well in large valleys so the terrain is used to aid the ambush
U shaped ambush would probably be from a higher position aiming down toward the enemy as to creat more of a diagonal line of fire to avoid friendly fire
The British troops learned these same lessons during the American Revolutionary war.
Fighting a rag tag native force on his home turf can be quite fustrating, especially when he uses hit and run as well as ambush tactics. Knowing the local terrain and language of the inhabitants while having their support is vital to success in the field. It can be quite detrimental to wear a uniform (bright scarlet red) while being sniped at by locals wearing buckskin.
When one doesn't learn from history ...
I have great respect for the Vietnamese fighters. They fought off an enemy that seemed so much stronger and better equipped.
Just looking at these tactics it becomes obvious that strategic bombing ( Which was the main approach to fighting the NVA and VC ) was completely useless against such a shrewd opponent as the Vietnamese.
Could you explain why. Also how effective would something like CAS be?
@@chickenballstv1510 Well heres the thing, even if the US would bomb the area to pieces, you still couldn't be sure whether the actual trail was effected or not. Bombing only tends to works on cities and an open battlefield, but in a thick jungle with lots of tunnel networks and hiding spots where the defender can just melt into the terrain, and come back out after the air support has done its runs? No.
@@Bullet-Tooth-Tony- surely infared and thermal cameras. Fix this issue tho
They were bombing logistic lines not infantry units. It actually caused quite a lot of problems for the North Vietnamese.
@@CarrotConsumer If you want to be frank, the US should have taken 'bold action' to cut 'The Trail'. I don't know what: Maybe build a fortified line from South China Sea, thru 'neutral' Laos (The NVA wasn't there, after all...) all the way to Thailand. Sure it would be a dirty move and it would 'violate Laotian Neutrality'(tm) but It would contain the NVA line of supply and reinforcements.
Oh and another thing: Cambodia's leader, Prince Sihanouk was backing the NVA and allowing The USSR and China to send sh/tloads of shiploads of supplies thru Sihanoukville. Somebody would have to bend the knee to flatter, bribe and kiss his ass royally to get him to change his mind.
what the hell? I looked up your channel followed by the "Vietnamese Tactics" 4 days ago and got disappointed when I didn't find anything , and now you make this!
there is one easy way to spot an ambush. Just looking at the RVN normal soldiers. if they talk about something, pointing fingers then quickly disappeared, there was an ambush bound to happen
The “U shape “ ambush has its merits is an area where there is varying terrain elevations. You can establish a killzone that is surrounded by varying elevated terrain and this allows for pretty safe firing into a particular killzone.
I am very late to the party, but V and U Shaped Ambushed are usually employed from an elevated position like firing down on a ravine or even suspended in the trees (due to the difficulty of retreat this was rarely used in practice despite the popular "They're in the trees!" stereotype/meme) to avoid crossfire. Or there could be opposing gaps in the lines to prevent direct crossfire.
My name is the Lorax, I speak for the trees, and for some frickin reason they speak Vietnamese.
🤣🤣🤣
Before watching, I am wondering how this is going to go. I used to hang out with TK in Ft. Worth, TX. I met his Brother, the guy in the video that smokes weed out of the shotgun while being interviewed by WC. He left the bar on his HD with sidecar, Kids in the side, chair flying. Shout out to the 2500 Club on Belknap.
Thanks. Nice summary. I ahve a few of the Marine after-actions reports and maybe 1 or 2 Army AAR. Interesting reading.
You’re the greatest ever Bernhard!!! I’d have given up on life long ago if not for you and your awesome channel!!!
I belive that the U shaped ambush Will only work in a vally where the attackers have the high ground on both sides. If it were a flat area you would have issues with blue on blue (friendly fire)
Perfect timing, I've just started an research project for a level on Vietnam !
Well, if you look at the politics, don't forget to go over the end-game politics that actually involved... Senator Joe Biden.
Also PAVN/NVA ambushes were essentially mobile in that the ambushing formations are no longer stationed within the ambush field but located some distance away due to advances radio communication and to avoid preparatory air and artillery strikes laid down ahead by Allied forces.
I find Vietnamese Tactics really interesting
Really good and informative Video 👌
Different from the US's own L shaped ambush, then. In this, as I have heard described, the long arm lies alongside the track and initiates the ambush. The short arm perpendicular on the same side of the track going back into the jungle facing the direction of approach. This was to prevent the ambushers along the track being flanked. Makes sense to me.
5:46 funny enough, "Front Toward Enemy" was important to have written. As often times North Vietnamese sympathizers and Viet Cong in the South would sneak out at night and sabotage fortifications, including spinning claymores around to cause damage to the US troops. Front Toward Enemy would allow US personnel to know that their mine was sabotaged.
Interesting tactic with making withdrawl and exfiltration a method of waging harassing warfare. While a rout usually spells doom for a unit in combat, they used it as an art.
Military history visualized,
In response to the u shaped ambush my general thought was the use of spider holes.. Which would allow for crossover from and elevated positions such as snipers, in trees and possibly only when the terain alows it such as in a canyon or river bed.keep it up enjoy what you do
The USMC had a higher percentage of volunteers, partly because they had a lower percentage of conscripts, which was a selling point for recruiters.
Will you be doing something on the ambush tactics of the South, Americans and Australians etc? I met an ex army armoured officer while living in Canberra. He served in Vietnam on a couple of tours in the 60's using M113 APC's. He said they would scout out areas and set the APCs on river bends because the NVA liked to move through terrain using the river banks rather than tracks. He also said there were multiple ambushes at the same sites with devastating consequences for the force they hit as they were not inclined to take prisoners. He was also very fond of the US forces and much less hostile than many.
the war with the best soundtrack
Ah, I think why they use U ambush. It is dangerous to set up ambush like that normally but they had tunnels. So I assume they're all dig in or underground and lay waste to their enemy point blank
"The trees are talking man!"
An old work friend was in the 101st. He said in the dense canopy it was so dark it might as well have been night, you couldn't see anything.
More Vietnam content, please and thank you!!
He said it! He said the line!
A video on the merits and drawbacks of the US conscript army would be a very good topic for a video. There's plenty of sources available in English. The US army went through a terrible time after Vietnam and the professionalisation of the army in the 70s but they came out all the stronger for it
At this point, I haven't watched the whole video so I have an idea.
1. Get as many RPG ammo as possible.
2. Get as many machine guns as possible (RPKs and PKMs will do)
3. Set up in an abandoned rice farm decently close to an Army Base with the crop still planted
4. When an American patrol passes by, open with one RPG sent to the front of the patrol and one sent to the back. Then fire the MGs
Now you have one wiped squad! And here's to many more.
The u ambush formation might be seen as being something else like a z ambush. See the wiki en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NLF_and_PAVN_battle_tactics#Ambush_types
I always like the "Front Toward Enemy" mark on the Claymore. I'm sure it prevented many accidental deforestation incidents 😊
P.S. 11:50 the "How it was used" Spliff - excellent!!!
I have a couple of books that may be of interest to you. One discussing the Australian side of the Vietnam war and one that discusses the plan that Australia had in world war ii in the case of any Japanese invasion.
6:05 seems like a good time to link the MHnV “Chinese perspective on the Vietnam war” video :3
THE MAN DONE IT
HE FINALLY DONE IT
Vietnam Liberation Army developed this tactic when facing a superior army with heavy firepower and advance technology: “fight the enemy while holding their belt”. Which is basically being so close to the enemy, that any kind of superior firepower become less significant. Like how the Red Army stick so close to the German in Stalingrad so the German cannot use their artillery or airforce in fear of hitting their own man.
Another way is traps and mine, but it can backfire to oblivious friendly troops which is why scout is one of the most important and valued troop to the Vietcong, especially in grey zone or zebra-skin zone.
A U-shaped ambush is best utilized where the terrain on both sides is higher than the trail itself. Because you are firing down, you aren't likely to hit your own men. These were also really common ambushes to use on rivers for this reason.
Interesting and worthwhile video
As noted by many, the U-shaped ambush works when there is a distinct difference in elevation between the troops in ambush positions, and their enemy. Most common (as generously noted in comments) is when the troops in ambush positions have the high ground, BUT, the technique also works when the ambush troops are on low positions of good concealment and the enemy is traversing across a ridge with little cover features. The ambush troops are protected from friendly fire by the ridge itself, and the enemy is exposed on all sides, though does have the conventionally accepted "high ground" tactical advantage. This would be a very short engagement technique as the ambush troops would become increasingly vulnerable to grenades, and crew served/heavy weapons if the enemy has time to react and organize.