I think he means uncompressed volume of raw data. CPU does decoding, so must be powerfull. This is about INTEL, not Seagate or WD. This video might be still many GB of data compressed.
For a while. This video for me just makes me glad that it's already at least possible. Which makes me glad because now we know it's coming in the future.
Assuming a market is present. Tech is great but if people can't sell it then it dies off. The great limiter of Moores law is can people sell the result. If it sells, we can see the price of HDD plummet as Moores law pushes storage standards again.
Yukkio Norashiko The tech is there. I'm sure most people have seen people controlling robotic arms with their mind/impulses. What is likely to take most time is for people to be comfortable with the idea. I'm not sure if anyone is experimenting with this. Gabe Newell has talked about biometrics being the future for games, so Valve could have dabbled with this stuff. I'm sure there are some research projects about this, but for games it's probably at the very least 5 years away, possibly much longer.
I don't disagree, but hard disks will need to become much larger for this to really be feasible. At 3GB per frame, even a 1 minute video would be 10TB.
Just sight-seeing. You couldn't touch or eat anything, nor feel the temperature or humidity or smells. It's still great, but I don't know anyone would would want to vacation with it (or rather consider it to be a vacation, unless vacation just means "break")
Don't worry about disk space. I don't think we will reach a petabyte size disks in the future. It will just be a cloud service that gives you all the space you need for your money once internet reaches appropriate transmission speed which isn't too far away. And maybe then desctop pc will be the thing of the past. It will just be an HMD capable of processing data that is transmitted wireless to you HMD at the very high speed from some cloud service corporation which also does all the processing for you on a supercomputer.
@RUS38 what do you think the cloud is? its not a magic place where files live happily floating in internet land, the data is still physically stored somewhere.
Will we all be bringing our own HMDs into the theater with us? Because I don't see local theaters providing public audiences with high quality VR devices that could be broken or stolen.
VRmission38 they could run diagnostics on the HMD before and after use. and take deposits. those theatres could actually be much smaller (take 10-20 people)
www.vrfocus.com/2017/01/vr-vs-nostradamus-part-1/ Seems facebook and oculus will soon have an injunction stopping all sales of Oculus hardware and software. This is going to sink my company. We had a title coming out on the oculus store. Why hasn't mark zuckerberg paid the money and made this go away already?
Uhh john, you do realize that this "incoming injunction" is nothing but a speculation of what's to come in the future by the crystal ball of the writer of that article, right. I mean, sure, it could happen, but it just as well could not.
Cool stuff! Gotta say this is the main thing that's been missing from VR video, other than the availability of higher res VR content online. One thing though..."Intel is the only one that can help us pull this off"...guess that'll fly with those ignorant of technology, but then that's probably not the audience watching CES.
Agreed. I'll give them their 15 minutes of shining (they need some marketing to make sales), but after that the bigger market the better. There won't be that many VR Videos if they are only playable on Intel CPUs.
BS. There was no walking around in the demo. There was peaking around a few objects, which can already be done with an extra long 360 camera and doesn't require 3 gigs per frame. I want to see the mapping
I've actually had a chance to demo this and you can definitely walk around. The explicative background video from the press conference doesn't demonstrate the "walking around" aspect to the degree that I personally experienced it was capable of. They had another volumetric video where you're standing on a cliff next to a surfboard and you can literally walk in a complete circle around the surfboard and see it from every angle. It's insane!
Stevenson full mapping of objects would be extremely impressive and if it was all accessible from any browser it would blow some minds hard. I'd love for it to work with smartphones instead of just money pit oculus rift
everybody is so concerned on the 3 gb/frame thing or the vr tech. but nobody wrote a comment for how they actually captured this in real life... like HOW?!!!!
Wow, super-awesome! The problem is that with 3GB for each frame... it is almost unusable. Without mentioning the time and the cost needed to record this kind of video...
Considering it is at least 120 frames per second, it is 360GB per second. That is 21.6TB per minute. It is amazing, but is the display in the headset good enough display it in life-like resolution or framerate?
Uncompressed I guess. Stored would be much less. Like BMP vs JPG or WAV vs ALAC. Headsets are OK. Surely there's plenty of room for improvement, but if you try "Introduction to VR" on Oculus Rift, you'll see what I mean.
At least 120fps? The refresh of the rift is 90fps. And the video can be lower than that, as long as headtracking is still at full framerate. So probably not 120fps.
If this is a point cloud based 3D data then lighting shading and GI data can be extracted ,then re-implemented and applied over 3D superimposed data in a real time game engine with full interactivity ?
Moar Desu why make it a game when you can live in a separate reality? With volumetric cameras everywhere in 2 decades you can literally transport to anywhere on earth without leaving home!! It's better than just a mere game!!
Once you have the geometric data for the "world" you can easily add computer generated characters or building. Basically, they could make an Elder Scrolls game that takes place in real life Scotland ;)
Videogrammetry. Wow. I wonder how far (in room-scale or even with teleportation) you could walk into it. If the capture was done with only one camera (or one fixed perspective with multiple lenses anyway), the resolution likely becomes sketchy when you start getting further from the stationary camera's location. Photogrammetry (as in Google Earth VR) uses a series of photos taken from a lot of positions and stitched together to produce 3D geometry and textures. This uses 360 degree binocular video from one position to produce 3D geometry and textures. Amazing stuff though!
No, Intel's technology probed light spheres from at least two 360deg arrangements (like 60+ cameras on a sphere) to make this. You can walk through the video (research 'Lightfields').
I believe the limitation of 525MB/s is due to using SATA. If the storage is plugged in through NVMe, speeds of 10GB/s are possible. www.computerworld.com/article/3041188/data-storage/seagate-reveals-worlds-fastest-ssd.html
Think of it like a 3D scanner. It takes a picture of its environment, but does so by mapping every single "pixel" it detects in 3 dimensional space, including color. That makes for huge data. However, using certain techniques, that large amount of data from a single frame _could_ be used to animate other things without taking any more frames. In addition, before sending that data to a user, it could be simplified, or possibly even converted into traditional polygons and textures. This would save _even more_ space. So while constantly snapping 3D pictures with this special 3D camera will fill up storage fast, the end-user could experience an environment with a much smaller amount of data. They already would have had to have done those sort of tricks for people to even see what they saw.* It's not like it's rebroadcasting raw footage from a 3D camera directly to them*. It was some 3D pictures taken, amalgamated together, then manually animated in a long and presumably difficult process, before simplifying it so that it could be displayed on a Rift, who views it much like a video game (although this may not be using polys, but rather point cloud data like what Eucledeon uses)
No, there are more types of frames in the video capture. I-frames which contain the full information and are as he said 3GB, next there are P-frames which contain only vector information how certain part of the image change, where do they move and how much etc. and B-frames which are the same as P-frames but refer to future I-frames. This means that there are only a few full frame images in one second of a video which dramatically reduces the size of the video.
It remains to be seen if Intel can achieve success in Hollywood. This represents an enormous investment that will require even more time, $$$ and effort to acheive meaningful results.
I own a Rift and walk around the room quite easily. Obviously you cannot walk long distances, but unless you have an empty warehouse, that's not practical anyway.
Until you try it in real life there is no way you can understand it. I thought I could and I am well versed in the tech. When I went and bought a Vive and a Rift I was blown away and continue to be blown away everyday that I use the stuff.
Have you ever seen a dog on a leash? I think you seem to have a hole in voicing whatever your argument was supposed to be, because I highly doubt you meant to say that you can't walk around while tethered. If you mean to say that you can't go anywhere, why would you need to go anywhere? Unless you were at the same location that you're viewing there will always be mismatch- places you can't go to due to obstacles in your location but not in the virtual location. That said, even if you wanted to have _even more_ distance than what's currently available, that technology is coming shortly (mobile positional tracking). Well it's already around, but not publicly available yet nor refined.
Yeah, extremely ignorant people. If you've tried something like Miyubi, and then imagine it with this kind and quality of video where you can move around more, and with even better resolution--my God, we're looking at the future!
I remember when they said VR was extremely expensive will never be a thing.... this was the late 80s early 90s. Its amazing how far its gone and how cheap it is and how popular its become just after 2010.
There are many 3D 360 cams, some better than others. For this video they use something special: hypevr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/IMG_20161202_053604.jpg
3gig per frame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ok so basically its a glorified tech demo of something we might get 10 years from now, cos it sure as hell won't be available like this any time soon.
riAAAAght... AAAAys... alAAAws you to trAAAvel... ..thAAAts... ...sAAAccer clip... I might be slightly autistic or the guy is just over painfully stressing those As. Anywho, this tech seems like brute force approach, or maybe having bmp to show digital photography. Spacial visual compression will be a thing. Maybe even by converting voxels (?) into geometry and baked textures. Gameengines would need to have standalone "players" so that these videos don't need to be distributed with an exe.
3GB PER FRAME? Once we start getting into the Petabyte sized hard drives then this would be practical.
not gonna happen in next 5 years.
I think he means uncompressed volume of raw data. CPU does decoding, so must be powerfull. This is about INTEL, not Seagate or WD. This video might be still many GB of data compressed.
For a while. This video for me just makes me glad that it's already at least possible. Which makes me glad because now we know it's coming in the future.
Assuming a market is present. Tech is great but if people can't sell it then it dies off. The great limiter of Moores law is can people sell the result. If it sells, we can see the price of HDD plummet as Moores law pushes storage standards again.
Kyledude252 also once there is a carrier for google fiber with the 1000mbs then will it be possible
This is very good for virtual travel. There is going to be demand for VR vacations and people will buy VR trips for 10 cents or for 1 USD.
So when are we tapping into our nerve system to simulate actual movement without moving our bodies in real life?
(SAO future anyone?)
Yukkio Norashiko The tech is there. I'm sure most people have seen people controlling robotic arms with their mind/impulses. What is likely to take most time is for people to be comfortable with the idea. I'm not sure if anyone is experimenting with this. Gabe Newell has talked about biometrics being the future for games, so Valve could have dabbled with this stuff. I'm sure there are some research projects about this, but for games it's probably at the very least 5 years away, possibly much longer.
That is effing amazing.
WTF. This is the most insane thing I've ever seen or heard of. Holy crap. We're living in the future.
holy shit tyrone you made my mind hurt
vacations will soon be done in your living room or at the mall like the movie total recall
I don't disagree, but hard disks will need to become much larger for this to really be feasible. At 3GB per frame, even a 1 minute video would be 10TB.
Just sight-seeing. You couldn't touch or eat anything, nor feel the temperature or humidity or smells. It's still great, but I don't know anyone would would want to vacation with it (or rather consider it to be a vacation, unless vacation just means "break")
Don't worry about disk space. I don't think we will reach a petabyte size disks in the future. It will just be a cloud service that gives you all the space you need for your money once internet reaches appropriate transmission speed which isn't too far away. And maybe then desctop pc will be the thing of the past. It will just be an HMD capable of processing data that is transmitted wireless to you HMD at the very high speed from some cloud service corporation which also does all the processing for you on a supercomputer.
RUS38 Yeah. What if this was part of google maps. They start out with short clips of the world's greatest locations and just keep going.
@RUS38 what do you think the cloud is? its not a magic place where files live happily floating in internet land, the data is still physically stored somewhere.
1 hour of this video at 90fps would take up 972 terrabytes.
Uncompressed I guess. Stored would be much less. Like BMP vs JPG or WAV vs ALAC.
This is the kind of thing I hope one day they can add to google maps.
Intel has by far the most impressive conference of them all..
Hats off.
did he say 3gigs per frame?? mind=blown!
There's always that guy who needs to hold VR HMD like if it were binoculars ;) Interesting to see hundreds (?) of Rifts in one place.
infirmux they're all rich people
this is how hollywood will keep people in theatres
Will we all be bringing our own HMDs into the theater with us? Because I don't see local theaters providing public audiences with high quality VR devices that could be broken or stolen.
VRmission38 they could run diagnostics on the HMD before and after use. and take deposits. those theatres could actually be much smaller (take 10-20 people)
jlebrech No.. this is absolutely not going to happen.
Wow this is amazing . I'm so happy to be living in this era with virtual reality coming in. Something that was once science fiction
Aren't those two on the stage the same people
parsing and parallaxing using card method from multiple sources. nothing new, but certainly novel on such a platform. really cool actually
Intel became a Monopoly cash monster.
www.vrfocus.com/2017/01/vr-vs-nostradamus-part-1/ Seems facebook and oculus will soon have an injunction stopping all sales of Oculus hardware and software. This is going to sink my company. We had a title coming out on the oculus store. Why hasn't mark zuckerberg paid the money and made this go away already?
john micone sink your company?
Uhh john, you do realize that this "incoming injunction" is nothing but a speculation of what's to come in the future by the crystal ball of the writer of that article, right.
I mean, sure, it could happen, but it just as well could not.
VR the future
Picked Oculus > Vive for demo
Oculus 2k17
Cool stuff! Gotta say this is the main thing that's been missing from VR video, other than the availability of higher res VR content online. One thing though..."Intel is the only one that can help us pull this off"...guess that'll fly with those ignorant of technology, but then that's probably not the audience watching CES.
Agreed. I'll give them their 15 minutes of shining (they need some marketing to make sales), but after that the bigger market the better. There won't be that many VR Videos if they are only playable on Intel CPUs.
BS. There was no walking around in the demo. There was peaking around a few objects, which can already be done with an extra long 360 camera and doesn't require 3 gigs per frame. I want to see the mapping
agree
I've actually had a chance to demo this and you can definitely walk around. The explicative background video from the press conference doesn't demonstrate the "walking around" aspect to the degree that I personally experienced it was capable of. They had another volumetric video where you're standing on a cliff next to a surfboard and you can literally walk in a complete circle around the surfboard and see it from every angle. It's insane!
+Josh Gullick wow
Stevenson full mapping of objects would be extremely impressive and if it was all accessible from any browser it would blow some minds hard. I'd love for it to work with smartphones instead of just money pit oculus rift
everybody is so concerned on the 3 gb/frame thing or the vr tech. but nobody wrote a comment for how they actually captured this in real life... like HOW?!!!!
Wow, super-awesome! The problem is that with 3GB for each frame... it is almost unusable. Without mentioning the time and the cost needed to record this kind of video...
Seeing this makes me think we are all sims , Big Bang , religion , string , all theories , origin remains a mystery
it is obvious
but it does not matter
My mother prays to the great A.I. that is running this simulation.
FYI for those wondering: they're using Oculus Rift
Considering it is at least 120 frames per second, it is 360GB per second. That is 21.6TB per minute. It is amazing, but is the display in the headset good enough display it in life-like resolution or framerate?
Uncompressed I guess. Stored would be much less. Like BMP vs JPG or WAV vs ALAC.
Headsets are OK. Surely there's plenty of room for improvement, but if you try "Introduction to VR" on Oculus Rift, you'll see what I mean.
At least 120fps? The refresh of the rift is 90fps. And the video can be lower than that, as long as headtracking is still at full framerate. So probably not 120fps.
What you're seeing isn't 3gb/frame. The whole 360 view with 3d data is 3gb/frame. What you're seeing is much much less
So if you wanted the basic cinematic experience of 24fps your looking at 72gig per second of video...
Wow! 3GB per frame. No wonder it loops after a pretty short time.
All we need now is to connect a matter manipulation construct containment field then hello Holodeck or matrix what ever you like to call it :)
so it's animated photogrammetry?
Gary Something along that line. Hey nice name
If this is a point cloud based 3D data then lighting shading and GI data can be extracted ,then re-implemented and applied over 3D superimposed data in a real time game engine with full interactivity ?
"literally"
Now they gotta figure out how to turn this into a game.
No need. Video games are fine using game engines and photogrammetry.
Moar Desu why make it a game when you can live in a separate reality? With volumetric cameras everywhere in 2 decades you can literally transport to anywhere on earth without leaving home!! It's better than just a mere game!!
But not the Voxel system..
Once you have the geometric data for the "world" you can easily add computer generated characters or building. Basically, they could make an Elder Scrolls game that takes place in real life Scotland ;)
Videogrammetry. Wow. I wonder how far (in room-scale or even with teleportation) you could walk into it. If the capture was done with only one camera (or one fixed perspective with multiple lenses anyway), the resolution likely becomes sketchy when you start getting further from the stationary camera's location. Photogrammetry (as in Google Earth VR) uses a series of photos taken from a lot of positions and stitched together to produce 3D geometry and textures. This uses 360 degree binocular video from one position to produce 3D geometry and textures. Amazing stuff though!
No, Intel's technology probed light spheres from at least two 360deg arrangements (like 60+ cameras on a sphere) to make this. You can walk through the video (research 'Lightfields').
So lightfield video?
3gb a frame !!! so 60 frames would be 180gb
which means that 1 minute of video at 60fps is 10.8 terabytes
Ryan Kim I don't believe it
I believe the limitation of 525MB/s is due to using SATA. If the storage is plugged in through NVMe, speeds of 10GB/s are possible.
www.computerworld.com/article/3041188/data-storage/seagate-reveals-worlds-fastest-ssd.html
Think of it like a 3D scanner. It takes a picture of its environment,
but does so by mapping every single "pixel" it detects in 3 dimensional
space, including color. That makes for huge data.
However, using certain techniques, that large amount of data from a single frame _could_ be used to animate other things without taking any more frames. In addition, before sending that data to a user, it could be simplified, or possibly even converted into traditional polygons and textures. This would save _even more_ space.
So while constantly snapping 3D pictures with this special 3D camera will fill up storage fast, the end-user could experience an environment with a much smaller amount of data.
They already would have had to have done those sort of tricks for people to even see what they saw.* It's not like it's rebroadcasting raw footage from a 3D camera directly to them*. It was some 3D pictures taken, amalgamated together, then manually animated in a long and presumably difficult process, before simplifying it so that it could be displayed on a Rift, who views it much like a video game (although this may not be using polys, but rather point cloud data like what Eucledeon uses)
No, there are more types of frames in the video capture. I-frames which contain the full information and are as he said 3GB, next there are P-frames which contain only vector information how certain part of the image change, where do they move and how much etc. and B-frames which are the same as P-frames but refer to future I-frames.
This means that there are only a few full frame images in one second of a video which dramatically reduces the size of the video.
I want to see how is this project now
Funnest keynote ever!
it is awesome but i am curious about technical details.How did they achieve this?
Yes me too, that is amazing stuff.
soooooo.... whats the difference between this, and what I have been doing with my oculus rift for the past year?
Kevin Minato - That it is done with live-captured video. Not CGI world of 3D objects.
normal 360 videos, you can't closer or farther to the objects. in this you can actually move towards the cow for example
Its the real James Halliday and Ogden Morrow from Ready Player One...... pmsl!!!
3GB a second? Yea, wake me up in 10 years.
not per second, its 3GB per FRAME! 1 second = 60Frames = 180GB per second!!!
3GB PER FRAME!! I bet Netflix can handle that!
It remains to be seen if Intel can achieve success in Hollywood. This represents an enormous investment that will require even more time, $$$ and effort to acheive meaningful results.
What does the camera look like?
It aint Vietnam without Napalm
HOLY SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH*****************TTTTTTTTTTTTT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I'm gonna try this...Gets hit everytime
how are u supposed to walk around if you are wired to the headset.... it's a good concept but as of right now I have mix feelings
I own a Rift and walk around the room quite easily. Obviously you cannot walk long distances, but unless you have an empty warehouse, that's not practical anyway.
Until you try it in real life there is no way you can understand it. I thought I could and I am well versed in the tech. When I went and bought a Vive and a Rift I was blown away and continue to be blown away everyday that I use the stuff.
Do you think there will always be a wire?
Have you ever seen a dog on a leash?
I think you seem to have a hole in voicing whatever your argument was supposed to be, because I highly doubt you meant to say that you can't walk around while tethered.
If you mean to say that you can't go anywhere, why would you need to go anywhere? Unless you were at the same location that you're viewing there will always be mismatch- places you can't go to due to obstacles in your location but not in the virtual location.
That said, even if you wanted to have _even more_ distance than what's currently available, that technology is coming shortly (mobile positional tracking). Well it's already around, but not publicly available yet nor refined.
Rocky1138 maybe the computer will be built into the headset someday and just plug into an outlet. It would be much more consumer friendly maybe soon
can't wait to get some VR PTSD
a step forward....
They really gotta figure out the walking around part. Otherwise it's just a nausea machine.
Use your legs + re-positioning (teleporting etc.).
And to think that some say VR is a fad. LMAO!!
Yeah, extremely ignorant people.
If you've tried something like Miyubi, and then imagine it with this kind and quality of video where you can move around more, and with even better resolution--my God, we're looking at the future!
I remember when they said VR was extremely expensive will never be a thing.... this was the late 80s early 90s. Its amazing how far its gone and how cheap it is and how popular its become just after 2010.
How did they capture the Video? Did they use any specific camera?
There are many 3D 360 cams, some better than others. For this video they use something special: hypevr.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/IMG_20161202_053604.jpg
otoy already do this....
This is how vr porn should be made, not the crap that's out right now.
What GPU does this use?
I don't understand what this is
mother of god......
The matrix!!!
He does not look like he wants to be there he looks like he hates The product
COOOOOL
3gig per frame!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ok so basically its a glorified tech demo of something we might get 10 years from now, cos it sure as hell won't be available like this any time soon.
riAAAAght... AAAAys... alAAAws you to trAAAvel... ..thAAAts... ...sAAAccer clip... I might be slightly autistic or the guy is just over painfully stressing those As.
Anywho, this tech seems like brute force approach, or maybe having bmp to show digital photography. Spacial visual compression will be a thing. Maybe even by converting voxels (?) into geometry and baked textures. Gameengines would need to have standalone "players" so that these videos don't need to be distributed with an exe.
Wow
việt nam
This is some next level Shit!
Most over used word of recent times "literally"
Matt Jackson got any other alternatives?
Just don't say it. Every time he says it, it completely unnecessary to do so
Nah... "amazing" is the most overused word.
Does it really bother you a lot?
Yeah
holyfuck
second
First
First