If you need help with your HIFI system or general advice, then send me a mail to: realhifihelp@gmail.com (my name is Larry) For free help, then look at my videos and comments. Then there are several 1000’s of hours put into these videos for the entire community. (circa 450 videos)
If you input Main Direct, you bypass all the control circuits and get pure power amplifier output. Also, tone control knobs bypasses at their center position. This is flexible and good in my view, otherwise there is no point of buying an integrated amplifier.
Whats yr genuine experience of hearing or using Yamaha 1200 , 2200, 3200 ? Do you work in a hifi shop or know a friend who owns it ? I personally havent heard 2200 or 3200 but March 2023 I auditioned the Yamaha 1200 and was impressed enough to buy it . Yes maybe Accuphase/ Luxman/ or Upper McIntosh would be better but in the real world the price difference is huge . My experience of high end is exhibitions, kj west one and a few years back owning McIntosh 32 pre Vincent Sp991 Monoblocks . Regrettably the Mc Intosh broke down and too complex to repair ( im based in Uk ) I decided to keep my hifi simple .
Interesting that you say the headphone circuit in these amps is worth so much. I'd consider looking for a used Yamaha to use as a headphone amp for my desktop PC.
Would the 2200 pair well with KEF R300's running Node 2i streamer or Sony ES SACD player through a Doge 7 tube dac? I know this is very specific but I guess I mean do you think tubes in the analogue output stage of a dac would sound good with the Yamaha? My DAC has 6 Telefunken West German and 2 Marconi A2900 valves. The Yamaha would allow me to use an XLR connection to activate all 8 valves as opposed to only 6 running rca to my Denon 4806 AVR on my current setup
It should be a good match. In that match I would try to use sommercable quadra blue speaker cable. That should make the Yamaha a bit more fresh/edgy in a good way. But I would use it in a 2x 4m configuration to make it settle a tiny bit more, whereas 2.5m on both sides, could be a bit too fresh.
Agreed. But personally I would not buy anything Yamaha before they start to bring back a built in DAC in all of their 2 channel amps. The Technics su-r1000 beats all Yamaha/Luxman/Accuphase models even the separate versions they make, so that is why I am never going back to Yamaha. Even though it is one of the best value brands on the market. Listen to su-r1000 on a AN-E set of speakers, only then do you know what I mean. Then you hear how Yamaha is very managed/polite/weak in sound with a sort of DSP to itś sound. But yes still, the as2200 is a very very good purchase for the price. If it only had a built it DAC included, only then would I recommend it.
I don’t understand why you’d knock an amp for having EQ control. I completely disagree with your suggestion this is to compensate for the components in the amp. Having the ability to EQ can help improve the listening experience drastically, as every listening room is different. The snobby “pure” sound you go on about may be more practically achieved through EQ, as we all know the room itself has far more impact on sound quality than nit picking internals on an amp. Not everyone can hang stuff on their walls and put ugly bass traps in the corners. Using EQ has greatly improved my stereo imaging and overall listening experience, helping me address room modes that are far more impactful on the quality of my system. So tired of people pumping purity and suggesting you just need to buy the right components when it’s the room you need to address before any of that stuff even begins to matter. Also, your trashing of McIntosh as “fake” hifi is laughable. The adjectives you use to describe how bad McIntosh is would make a Sommelier blush. I’d bet you $1000 you couldn’t reliably pick the difference between the two in a blind test.
EQ never solves the problem at the root level. It borrows from one part of the sound, to kind of solve another problem in a half way. So by reducing for example the harshness of the treble, you roll of the sound, so the energy becomes more polite/restricted. That is how you create digital sound. You can do this, and for some people at the lower end, it will make them happy, coming from gear that is far worse. But then when you hear the real thing, then you realize it is just pure compensation. The fact that the knobs are there, means that it is already extending the circuity, so that it censors the sound even though it is not active and in use. What I am saying, becomes more apparant, the more you move up in the higher HIFI ranks. Because the stuff reacts a lot more, instead of predicting movement with chips, DSD, DSP, EQ...
@@RealHIFIHelp So, the Accuphase e480 is a shit amplifier because it has tone adjustment. That's your logic. I have to say I never use adjustments on amplifiers, but if they are there it doesn't mean that the amplifier is weak in any way. Means that there are people that use them. You could tell people your opinion on that, but can't trash the amp for having the option. This is just a hate video. So, if the A-S1200 is weak, what better amplifier can you get at the same price? And it also has to have vu-meters and same great build quality.
@@testingstuff862 This is not a hate video. You are just used to a standard that complements basically all the gear out there. And because of that, you do not get the full message. So let me explain: Balance, EQ/tone control, VU meter, Headphone jack, and built speaker protection, DSP function. They all detract from the max potential of an amp in regards to purity of sound and reaction. Does that means that all gear suddenly is really bad? No it does not. What it means, is that it creates a sound where you are further away from the true sound, because of all the filtering. So even though you are not using it, it still extends the circuitry and affects the sound to a degree,. I have had a couple of amps that do this. And typically the results are this: Less reaction from gear around the amp, meaning that cables, cd, DAC, speakers just have this more reserved, locked, cool, nice type of sound. And what it means is that, it creates a sort of safety layer between you the listener and the music. Which usually gives a slightly lower quality warmth, making the sound overall a bit more flat. Yamaha for me starts getting truly convincing around the 2000 models that they make. Where I find the lower models to be more polite/hesitant/lacking in many areas. I know that some people say that the 1200 model is more warm and easy to work with. But that is a simplified truth. Because it is also less 3d even though on the surface it might seem more warm. (having listened to the older models) Generally I find the 2000+ models of Yamaha to be a much better value, and a more true sound. Especially the 3000 and 5000 models. But still, Accuphase is much better overall, because it is a whole other class over design/components. I also reviewed the mcintosh ma9000 amp, and mentioned this point. It's neat to look at and nice to use. But only hurts the sound having it there. And for a purist like me, I would rather not have it there. Simply so I can stay more in contact with the ultimate truth, instead of the surface like niceness. I myself have also owned a Mcintosh ma6900, so I know how frustrating it is. But yeah your accuphase is of course better, so it does most likely do a better job of minimizing that effect.
I have a 2200 and it's my understanding that with tone controls in middle they are completely out of the circuit.. You can hear a relay kick in and the music briefly stops and then comes back on when they are engaged. I also can turn off the meters so IMO it's the best of both worlds to have the choice of running neutral and dark for purists or contoured and lit for the rest of us. Personally, the preamp section is a little light in the bass and mid focused for my tastes so I'd like a mid control as well and then it would be perfect
I am afraid this video is everything is annoying about hi fi enthusiasts who arrogantly call themselves audiophiles usually based exclusively on how much money they have spent. You mentioned music twice, the rest your own subjective views so there’s the thing you see hi fi is subjective! Everyones view is different and if they sit and enjoy THEIR music that’s it job done. The pleasure is lost when you stop listening to the and start listening to the equipment constantly trying to critique, the so called premium manufacturers love these people as their obsessive behaviour makes them huge amounts of money. The equipment reviewed here along with Thomas’s other equipment that you comment on, is for many beyond the top end of what people can afford or justify. I am sure that listening to yourself criticising cheap tacky equipment ( your view) The fact is that you do not need to cost eye watering money to convey your music and make you happy!
What a weird thing to say, this says more about you than me. And if you did your homework you would realize that I am all about the music instead of the gear, and that I am the one that covers HIFI the widest and deepest, and that I have owned most gear and tested it in most ways. And again if you did your homework, you would realize that I praise Thomas generally and that we are actually half friends.
I think you’re off the mark with regard to tone control. All your music is already put through tone control during its recording, even live performances are usually put through tone control. The amps tone control is there for you to fine tune the system, fine tune poor recordings, or fine tune to suit your hearing. You don’t have to use them, simply select direct if you don’t want them. I’ve had a system without tone control, never again.
Itś fine if you want a sound that is slightly DSP like where you create a certain voicing/priority. Personally I am just going for the Technics su-r1000 which I think is at least 3x better. Plus it has GAN, LAPC, much better RIAA, battery driven clock. and can receive a signal from a streamer or CD so you don´t need a DAC. That is the most underrated amp/DAC on the internet. This amp/DAC is the most revolutionary thing to have hit the market since the CD player.
If you need help with your HIFI system or general advice, then send me a mail to: realhifihelp@gmail.com (my name is Larry)
For free help, then look at my videos and comments. Then there are several 1000’s of hours put into these videos for the entire community. (circa 450 videos)
The tone controls on the AS2200 are bypassed when in the 12 o'clock position.
If you input Main Direct, you bypass all the control circuits and get pure power amplifier output. Also, tone control knobs bypasses at their center position. This is flexible and good in my view, otherwise there is no point of buying an integrated amplifier.
Im in the market for this Yamaha 2200, I'm looking to buy a refurbish mod... at $2500.. what's your impression on this idea?
Whats yr genuine experience of hearing or using Yamaha 1200 , 2200, 3200 ? Do you work in a hifi shop or know a friend who owns it ? I personally havent heard 2200 or 3200 but March 2023 I auditioned the Yamaha 1200 and was impressed enough to buy it . Yes maybe Accuphase/ Luxman/ or Upper McIntosh would be better but in the real world the price difference is huge . My experience of high end is exhibitions, kj west one and a few years back owning McIntosh 32 pre Vincent Sp991 Monoblocks . Regrettably the Mc Intosh broke down and too complex to repair ( im based in Uk ) I decided to keep my hifi simple .
You and Thomas should have a fart sniffing contest. I'd bet you'd give him a run run for his money.
A perspective that I have not had any experience. Who does this?
He would complain the Thomas farts aren't pure enough
Hi Larry, you have an extraordinary ears for music
Sounds like some one has a god complex.
Interesting that you say the headphone circuit in these amps is worth so much. I'd consider looking for a used Yamaha to use as a headphone amp for my desktop PC.
Glad I heard this because I was about to pay $1900 for a mint used AS1100 to replace my Threshold S200 Stasis.
Then what did you end up doing?
Would the 2200 pair well with KEF R300's running Node 2i streamer or Sony ES SACD player through a Doge 7 tube dac? I know this is very specific but I guess I mean do you think tubes in the analogue output stage of a dac would sound good with the Yamaha? My DAC has 6 Telefunken West German and 2 Marconi A2900 valves. The Yamaha would allow me to use an XLR connection to activate all 8 valves as opposed to only 6 running rca to my Denon 4806 AVR on my current setup
Seems like an okay idea.
@@RealHIFIHelp Thanks Ken, much appreciated! The AS2200 is on the way!
How does the character of the Yamaha AS2200 fit into the Focal Electra speakers? Is there a synergy between them or is there no chance?
It should be a good match.
In that match I would try to use sommercable quadra blue speaker cable. That should make the Yamaha a bit more fresh/edgy in a good way.
But I would use it in a 2x 4m configuration to make it settle a tiny bit more, whereas 2.5m on both sides, could be a bit too fresh.
The AS 2200 is the sweet spot amp
In their range. Not sure you get much more going up the price ranges. Until pre power which offer more overall.
Agreed. But personally I would not buy anything Yamaha before they start to bring back a built in DAC in all of their 2 channel amps. The Technics su-r1000 beats all Yamaha/Luxman/Accuphase models even the separate versions they make, so that is why I am never going back to Yamaha. Even though it is one of the best value brands on the market. Listen to su-r1000 on a AN-E set of speakers, only then do you know what I mean. Then you hear how Yamaha is very managed/polite/weak in sound with a sort of DSP to itś sound. But yes still, the as2200 is a very very good purchase for the price. If it only had a built it DAC included, only then would I recommend it.
@@RealHIFIHelp The Luxman 507z is an improvement in the range. Worth a listen as it offers a considerable improvement in presentation.
At 12 o'clock the tone control is defeated, it's completely bypassed.
One of the perfect I think in my opinion songs is Tool truck name is chocolate chip trip testing drums then you’ll know very quickly
One of my go to test tracks. It's excellent.
I don’t understand why you’d knock an amp for having EQ control. I completely disagree with your suggestion this is to compensate for the components in the amp. Having the ability to EQ can help improve the listening experience drastically, as every listening room is different. The snobby “pure” sound you go on about may be more practically achieved through EQ, as we all know the room itself has far more impact on sound quality than nit picking internals on an amp. Not everyone can hang stuff on their walls and put ugly bass traps in the corners. Using EQ has greatly improved my stereo imaging and overall listening experience, helping me address room modes that are far more impactful on the quality of my system. So tired of people pumping purity and suggesting you just need to buy the right components when it’s the room you need to address before any of that stuff even begins to matter.
Also, your trashing of McIntosh as “fake” hifi is laughable. The adjectives you use to describe how bad McIntosh is would make a Sommelier blush. I’d bet you $1000 you couldn’t reliably pick the difference between the two in a blind test.
EQ never solves the problem at the root level. It borrows from one part of the sound, to kind of solve another problem in a half way.
So by reducing for example the harshness of the treble, you roll of the sound, so the energy becomes more polite/restricted.
That is how you create digital sound.
You can do this, and for some people at the lower end, it will make them happy, coming from gear that is far worse.
But then when you hear the real thing, then you realize it is just pure compensation.
The fact that the knobs are there, means that it is already extending the circuity, so that it censors the sound even though it is not active and in use.
What I am saying, becomes more apparant, the more you move up in the higher HIFI ranks. Because the stuff reacts a lot more, instead of predicting movement with chips, DSD, DSP, EQ...
@@RealHIFIHelp So, the Accuphase e480 is a shit amplifier because it has tone adjustment. That's your logic. I have to say I never use adjustments on amplifiers, but if they are there it doesn't mean that the amplifier is weak in any way. Means that there are people that use them. You could tell people your opinion on that, but can't trash the amp for having the option.
This is just a hate video. So, if the A-S1200 is weak, what better amplifier can you get at the same price? And it also has to have vu-meters and same great build quality.
@@testingstuff862 This is not a hate video. You are just used to a standard that complements basically all the gear out there. And because of that, you do not get the full message. So let me explain:
Balance, EQ/tone control, VU meter, Headphone jack, and built speaker protection, DSP function. They all detract from the max potential of an amp in regards to purity of sound and reaction.
Does that means that all gear suddenly is really bad? No it does not.
What it means, is that it creates a sound where you are further away from the true sound, because of all the filtering.
So even though you are not using it, it still extends the circuitry and affects the sound to a degree,.
I have had a couple of amps that do this. And typically the results are this:
Less reaction from gear around the amp, meaning that cables, cd, DAC, speakers just have this more reserved, locked, cool, nice type of sound.
And what it means is that, it creates a sort of safety layer between you the listener and the music. Which usually gives a slightly lower quality warmth, making the sound overall a bit more flat.
Yamaha for me starts getting truly convincing around the 2000 models that they make. Where I find the lower models to be more polite/hesitant/lacking in many areas. I know that some people say that the 1200 model is more warm and easy to work with. But that is a simplified truth. Because it is also less 3d even though on the surface it might seem more warm. (having listened to the older models)
Generally I find the 2000+ models of Yamaha to be a much better value, and a more true sound. Especially the 3000 and 5000 models.
But still, Accuphase is much better overall, because it is a whole other class over design/components.
I also reviewed the mcintosh ma9000 amp, and mentioned this point.
It's neat to look at and nice to use. But only hurts the sound having it there. And for a purist like me, I would rather not have it there. Simply so I can stay more in contact with the ultimate truth, instead of the surface like niceness. I myself have also owned a Mcintosh ma6900, so I know how frustrating it is.
But yeah your accuphase is of course better, so it does most likely do a better job of minimizing that effect.
@@RealHIFIHelp
What's your current hifi set-up?
I have a 2200 and it's my understanding that with tone controls in middle they are completely out of the circuit.. You can hear a relay kick in and the music briefly stops and then comes back on when they are engaged. I also can turn off the meters so IMO it's the best of both worlds to have the choice of running neutral and dark for purists or contoured and lit for the rest of us. Personally, the preamp section is a little light in the bass and mid focused for my tastes so I'd like a mid control as well and then it would be perfect
Not a fan of hit piece videos. Would have been better just to do your own review of this model.
In order to get the correct context I did it this way. If I wanted to promote a store or product then I would do it the traditional way.
@@RealHIFIHelp you will just alienate your audience with these types of videos.
Amplifiers are voiced by their manufacturers so tone controls only override the manufacturers voicing!
I am afraid this video is everything is annoying about hi fi enthusiasts who arrogantly call themselves audiophiles usually based exclusively on how much money they have spent. You mentioned music twice, the rest your own subjective views so there’s the thing you see hi fi is subjective! Everyones view is different and if they sit and enjoy THEIR music that’s it job done. The pleasure is lost when you stop listening to the and start listening to the equipment constantly trying to critique, the so called premium manufacturers love these people as their obsessive behaviour makes them huge amounts of money.
The equipment reviewed here along with Thomas’s other equipment that you comment on, is for many beyond the top end of what people can afford or justify.
I am sure that listening to yourself criticising cheap tacky equipment ( your view) The fact is that you do not need to cost eye watering money to convey your music and make you happy!
What a weird thing to say, this says more about you than me. And if you did your homework you would realize that I am all about the music instead of the gear, and that I am the one that covers HIFI the widest and deepest, and that I have owned most gear and tested it in most ways.
And again if you did your homework, you would realize that I praise Thomas generally and that we are actually half friends.
It’ Pronounced Yaa-maa-haa. Not Yam-meh-heh, which just sounds weird.
How different would be the A S3200 from the A S2200?
Power/control/timing. Maybe 35% difference.
@@RealHIFIHelp thanks for the reply!
More drive, sonically the same.
I think you’re off the mark with regard to tone control. All your music is already put through tone control during its recording, even live performances are usually put through tone control. The amps tone control is there for you to fine tune the system, fine tune poor recordings, or fine tune to suit your hearing. You don’t have to use them, simply select direct if you don’t want them. I’ve had a system without tone control, never again.
Itś fine if you want a sound that is slightly DSP like where you create a certain voicing/priority.
Personally I am just going for the Technics su-r1000 which I think is at least 3x better. Plus it has GAN, LAPC, much better RIAA, battery driven clock. and can receive a signal from a streamer or CD so you don´t need a DAC. That is the most underrated amp/DAC on the internet.
This amp/DAC is the most revolutionary thing to have hit the market since the CD player.
This review makes me dizzy … as a new guy in the hobby, it seems like audiophile like you will never stop chasing your tail.
Oh you're serious. I didn;t know the amps were that expensive.
I think they have risen in price that last couple of years. Also they most likely are cheaper in certain parts of the world.
My blog page: realhifihelp.wordpress.com/
0:40 - HA HA HA!!
Keep quiet when thomas talk ..