A lot of this information is now out of date as BM has received a ton of balance changes since this video went live. I hope to make a followup video to this conversation soon with new changes in mind.
How did you learn to aim that well? Is mostly do to pc hardware and having a computer that consistently stay at 60 FPS? Allowing you to get comfortable with ur settings, gets you sniper like aim?
@@rolan4dezwinz381 400 dpi & 40 sens (x3) is 1200 edpi. 1200 has been a sweet spot for most shooter players for many years. Some people use large mouse pads and me, I use the largest you can find and my range of motion really gives me an advantage. But it all comes down to personal preference! Hope this helped :)
The only two problems I have are these: 1. Latency can be a problem, The Slayer will straight up stop moving and on his end hes across the map, but on yours, he's not. Latency and Region issues need to be fixed asap. 2. On the Slayer side, WHERE IS THE MUSIC? GIMME BFG 10000 WHILE I'M PLAYING BATTLEMODE, DUDE!
I have that issue on both sides, getting hit and killed by a projectile that was shot by an enemy that wasn't there. Today I was actually killed by a Revenant rocket that hit me from the left... after I killed the Revenant that was directly in front of me.
@@droy999 I think he means the music. But I do agree the BFG needs a change, the only reason to take it is for a couple achievements at this point. Gimme Sentinel Infused armour everytime.
This is exactly what they should have done, the demons are weak, while the slayer is a insane. They should just give all the demons the same power and abilities they have just like in the campaign.
@@jozaya37 they do and they have more since the player is controlling them while being able to summon demons with another demon player so it can support them through battle.
@@brandonnunez6566 The archvile is missing his flame wave attack, The Marauder his shield, the mancubis aoe attack. The demons don't have there full arsenal, and as for the demon summons there really aren't effective enough, most good slayers ignore them and curb stomp the player demons. I believe only the archvile should summon and the other demons should behave as they do in the campaign, you don't fight a marauder with 10 demons on you do you? But in battlemode you can. I feel like the demons have the short end of the stick most fights go down to a slayer obliterating the demons, or the demons resurrection spamming to victory.
The Unholy Adventurer I remember randomly hearing Phobos Base, one of my favorite tracks in the entire game, start playing in one of my games yesterday. Weird.
I noticed a lot of lagging Slayers among high-level players, it is very fun to get a ballista shot from Slayer, who is behind the wall 5 meters from its edge.
I fucking hate that. I knew the slayer was aiming at me so I dashed behind a wall and like one second later I hear the blast and I lose half my health.
It's also fun to take damage from the mancubus's flamethrower even tough I dashed far away from him, this goes both ways, the one who gets to be host is the op one lol
Pretty much. I have to limit my weapon options because it's hard to be precise against a Marauder and Archville combo gunning for you on consoles. Plus the connection issues.
My favorite strategy is playing as a pain elemental directly above the slayer so they have to look up and take their eyes off my teammate and the summoned demons.
@Frax Maybe in a 1v1 scenario, but if you're talking about teaming or team shooting, then no it's really not hard. I see it all the time in Halo or Gears of War where you have whole teams that lose to me all the time in a 1v1 scenario but as soon as they team shoot there's nothing you can do. Now I know Doom eternal is not either one of those games, but it seems this game mode is set up in a similar manner so that's why I made the comparison I did.
Darren The Dude As if that’s all you do to win as a demon. Demons that know what they’re doing can trap the slayer in noxious hazards, while inflicting their weapon damage, summon minions to block the slayers movement, use power upgrade heals to survive longer and block loot at the appropriate moment. So yeah like it or not those are tactics.
Frax The slayer has tactics as well obviously and a skillful player can easily win by pressuring the demons. But being a team of one it mostly depends on your skills of the mechanics and aiming to win. You can have a passive play-style as the slayer and still win (ballista & precision bolt quick switch from a distance). But as a demon you can’t win by yourself (unless the slayers isn’t good) and if your teammate isn’t pressuring the high skilled slayer with you then the match is basically over gg slayer.
When I first started playing as The Slayer in Battlemode I was straight up getting owned. I learned the maps, choke points, and how to prioritize demon players. I’m now a very formidable Slayer player but crave those matches with high skill demon players. When I get in one I’ll rematch til they leave because it’s good practice. Blowing teams out 3-0 is gratifying but I love when it’s 3-2 and I barely won with my palms sweating and heart racing.
Try energy drinks for tough matches. Concentrated monster is my favorite, everything around you slows down seconds after injection and it doesn't need a big cyringe.
There has been a balance patch for console that nerfs the demons and some of their action skills! This should hopefully even the odds slightly on the Console Arena as they don't have the same damage and cooldowns available to them. Check out Patch Notes here: slayersclub.bethesda.net/en/article/aemhDCRbPHlcHpXOXspv2/april-9-battlemode-update-for-console
As a console Slayer player (I have no friends) I didn't think the nerf to demon was needed. I have felt that Slayer needs to start with less health and armor. I rarely ever lose a round and have been feeling Slayer is dumb strong. Just my opinion tho.
The slayers need to hit good and find out which weapons work against the different demons and demons need to stop PICKING THE MARAUDER. EVERY. SINGLE. ROUND.
I’m fine with people going marauder, mostly because this means they don’t go Archvile. As someone who uses Archvile almost exclusively for demon rounds, it means slayers have no clue what I’m going to do. This leads to hilarious instances where a slayer dies by charging head first into a flame wall.
@@noahhorner231 yes but most people just go rush the slayer and die instantly. if a marauder player is actually good its fine but most of the time they arent
There's a few problems with Battle mode imo. Slayer ranged dmg is just too high, demons can be frustrating if you matchmake alone, the lagg is just way too frequent and ruins the entire match and the matchmake is terrible. I once matchmaked together with a dude who went Marauder and probably thought he's a Slayer cuz of the shotgun cuz he was shooting only the demons.
The combo is incredibly strong but not unbeatable. That's why it's such a hard question to answer, if at all, because there's always solutions that get you an edge. If you play majorly defensive at the start and get demons out, the slayer is the one that's forced to act. There's no denying its strength though. 1000HP anywhere on the map is 1000HP anywhere on the map.
Try playing around tactically with this as a demon. For instance have your partner peak out from cover to distract the slayer while you hug the side of the map and flank him. Also a few of the demons can utilize the dash, this can really F up a slayers tracking. Be unpredictable
@Dam Sen Two of the highest damage attackd even mentioned here in the video are technically sniper shots(one practically a railgun), both of which by design in Eternal would be any player's first pick for long range attacks
I didn't want to cover latency in this discussion because it's an artificial factor that isn't related to the game mode at all. If the game is laggy, Slayer has advantage because of speed, damage and difficulty to hit.
@@PNDKM yeah it's the right decision to make because *hopefully* any video that covers this topic will soon be outdated. Hopefully. But right now it's hard to tell if you ever deserve the loss, or the win, in way too many games.
@@PNDKM While we're discussing lag here. (I get why you didn't discuss it in the video.) On Xbox, I have won multiple matches as the demons because the slayer lags out and gets hung up on thin air, and I can just mug him cause he's stuck in place for two whole seconds.
@@PNDKM I respectfully disagree. Demons lagging they have aoe with all attacks and their minions do not lag. Therefore if the slayer lags he will get hit or body blocked by invisible ai because to the ai the slayer is not where he thinks he is. Only games I lost as slayer were when I got killed by minions that were ghosting me. On good connection battlemode is amazing. But on bad connection battlemode is more frustrating than even doom 2016 laggy servers. Btw nice content, Pizz4 Papa trickshot here long time no see.
@@onyxtheslayer3334 I still havent seen demons take down an experienced slayer on PC :) Some of the weapons need a slight nerf on PC, since you can get of 1800dmg in literally 1sec with quickswitch and decent aim.
At the end of the day, most people would rather blame the game for their loss rather than look at what mistakes they made and try to get better from them.
When you're the Slayer all you gotta do is rush SSG and Ballista, it's really tough to beat, it's alittle more fun playing as the demons, Mancubus is my favorite.
Definitely a longer one today. I feel like there's been enough time to really go over a bunch of reasons people might feel either side is more beneficial. Wanted to collect a bunch of thoughts into one place and see if anybody feels the same way. Enjoy!
When both sides have OP qualities it's hard to decide but this makes it fun it's but this does mean you can get destroyed quickly making the game seem unfair because you don't really get chance to respond slash learn lot's of games can be like this don't know if this game has a pratice mode but that's helps alot with games like these👊
I think the problem is that the slayer gets an amazing tutorial though the campaign and the demons are lacking a good tutorial hopefully they add more like summon strategies it might make a bit easier to learn how to play the demons
I found the demon controls confusing and most matches had around .5 of a second to try and figure them out before being hit with a sniper shot, balista, rocket and a super shotgun.
I honestly think it's very balanced, just need server help and bigger maps (maybe) and .... that's about it for me... pretty satisfied, cause I cant get this experience anywhere else
I started playing battle mode yesterday with a friend playing as demons. The first couple rounds we were getting absolutely destroyed trying to find a pair of demons that worked. Then we picked marauder and archvile and started playing really aggressively, we didn’t lose any matches after that
I think the fact that there is a constant argument about what side is stronger (with people who have strong opinions on both sides) is a testament that the multiplayer is somewhat balanced lol. Taking into account the skill level of the person playing the slayer, and the cooperative teamwork of the demon players, it honestly could go in any direction. But I do believe with everything considered the Slayer have the upper hand... IF THE PLAYER IS SKILLED!
@@vyor8837 Partially true. The super shotgun alone don't really melt anything because the fire rate is so slow. A good Demon Slayer knows how to bypass that with weapon swaps so they can deal damage within the time frame of the super shotgun's reload. If you're a player that rely only on the super shotgun, you won't get far at all. In the end it still circles back to having a good Demon Slayer that competent and knows those nuances, and takes advantage of them at every chance they get. There's no way around it: the Demon Slayer must be good for the fight to be somewhat winnable unless the demons are completely incompetent!
@@vyor8837 the fire rate is too slow. How much damage you taking and not putting out in between each reload? And I think you mean armor... the fire on the meat hook refills armor, not health.
I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to weapon switching. On console you come to a complete stop, even if it is only briefly, and under pressure you don't always get the gun you want either.
i really enjoy the way you take a solid competitive mindset into this game. i really hope it continues to get supported and we see a long lived community around this game mode, because i really am having a blast and loving the content.
It's in my nature I think. I love exploring my favourite games like this and the higher level of it forever fascinates me. I just try and put those thoughts into video form 🤣
"Demon's can't 1v1 a Slayer" is definitely not always true. I was playing Archvile, matched with a rando Marauder tonight. We lost the first round, and the rando left the game. I actually ended up taking the next 3 rounds solo by adjusting strategy and taking care. Slayer was actually fairly low skill, we just didn't coordinate well on the first go round
From what I've played, I think it all depends on who's playing what, I've had games where I play slayer and only win one round, and I've played demon and only won one round. Some people are just really good
I'm pretty sure that on PC the gamemode is really well balanced, but on console, the limited options of the Slayer, and the fact that it's skill can't reach the level of a PC player kind of makes him a bit weaker, because in Battlemode aiming and skill for the Slayer matters but for the demons, they almost don't even have to aim. But it was an awesome analysis. Loved the video thank you.
Aim isn't really the problem. If you are well versed in playing FPS with a controller, you will have really good and fast aim. What hurts Slayer more is the limited weapon swap. It's harder to switch to the right weapon when needed because we don't have the key bindings like a PC player does.
As someone who has been playing only marauder for while, matches either go completely one sided or the other. If the slayer plays aggressively, he can usually wipe out one demon pretty much immediately with starting ammo if they try and cross the map. If he plays slower and gets caught in a corner, he melts so fast its insane. It was nice to see this explored a little more in depth than just my analysis
I do personally feel slayer has the edge on PC, but I didn't want to make a video about why I think the way I do, I wanted it to be open ended and fair to both sides.
Thanks for this analysis! I didn't know the precision shot did so much. I'll admit I just started playing after the first level and wanted to play deathmatch but it's grown on me. I'll take these tips though.
This is a matter of Slayer skill only. If he is good, then the demons have no chance, because trash and summoned demons are almost not a threat and the player can move on the map as he wants. Especially when he choose a perk for a quick dash cooldown. Only unlucky situations can swing the balance in the direction of demons, for example, when a player cannot find a trash for ammo or a hook use, or when random trash actions lead to a body block that was difficult to foresee. The design of the maps generally decides more in the chances of winning than the actions of the players, because on some maps the demons have nowhere to hide. The game mode is very far from a good balance. And although it is cheerful and can take several days, in this form it will never become either popular or interesting enough to form his own community and competitions. Everything the author said in this video is true for casual players or average players. There are a lot of these people, and there is still some fun for them. But if you are a skilled and experienced player, this mode will simply disappoint you.
@@artemperesada3454 those don't mean a lot imo. I got most of my Slayer borders cuz I main demon and a lot of Slayers don't put up much of a fight. Sure, the red looks cool, but it doesn't mean I'm a good player.
On PC when playing the slayer I feel I have to go easy on the demons who can be killed on the pre-engagement some of the time. Slayer is just too flexible vs the Demons who have long cool downs more suited to controllers. When you are the demons (heh! lol) you can re rushed at the start of the map and cant even set up, the spawned demons are so slow that Slayers will ignore them even if you strategically place a frontline as a buffer for such huge burst damage. A Slayer that doesnt hold back can slaughter even the most coordinated demons. Feels like spawn demon body blocking is more useful than their damage output. Slowing the Slayer down seems to be the best strategy but maybe they should add a mobility debuff to some of the demon attacks. Maybe there could be the purple goo that slows the Slayer but not the demons. It always feels more rewarding to kill the Slayer than it is to kill the Demons.
I find that only tends to work on slower targets (like the Mancubus). For demons like the Archvile and the Pain Elemental they can very quickly block attacks (and if you get the Archvile's flamewall upgrade then it reflects the attacks back), plus if the Marauder and the Revenant utilizes their mobility more (and the Marauder's damage resistance buff) then they can be pretty hard to hit. At the end of the day it's mostly just about who can out-do who.
The answer to this question is one that might relay on the metrics that we don't have access to but Id probably does for balancing reasons. I can imagine the overall win/loss rate for both parties should even out to around 50% for any given match.
I’m on console and I win about 8-10 of my matches as the slayer? I think it just comes down to the skill of each player. I’ve ran into matches where the demons are really coordinated and kill me but I’ve ran into even more where I can take control of the battlefield and overcome both of them easily
Regarding match making as demons, I think this will improve as the community skill level increases. For instance "Oh you're a Revenant I'll be manucubus and we both have some idea of basic strategy etc.". I think there are also possibilities for larger concepts with this mode, like conquest with 3 slayers 6 demons, or even CTF. Let's keep this MP scene going guys That feeling at 18:23 that's why this mode is so awesome
Maybe instead of more Slayers (keep the Slayer himself more of a constant and less variable), we get another player on the Slayer team to be mission control/combat support (VEGA, Samuel,...) and grant massive external assistance (not just armor, ammo and health but also activating teleport gates, traps and providing intel on demons). It could be from a 2v3 to a 2v5 depending on how helpful the other player can be. This mode would be about an overwhelming powerhouse with a high-utility sidekick tactician against multiple subversive, ruthless, intelligent and cunning strategists. It can either end in a slaughter of the hellborns or a massive bloodbath of the Slayer. Still skill vs strategy, just on a higher level.
In my experience as a fighting game player, if people argue that one side is highly favored but can’t agree which side is the favored side, that’s usually a sign that it’s pretty balanced
I really hope you doom players keep this version of the game. it sounds interesting and has a high skill-ceiling. A lot of games I played competitively have whiners, and the nerfs and buffs make characters I used to love suffer to the point they aren't fun anymore.
I play on console and I main slayer and really all I do because of my limited options is super shotgun and ballista. I just started multiplayer and I have around 100+ (estimate) hours in campaign
Damn dude, great video! You go over everything in such depth, and I feel like you really make a case for why people should play the mode in the first place. I wasn't sure about it until you talked about it, now I really wanna give it a try.
Quickswap cheese ruins both singleplayer and multiplayer on PC, kind of surprised that they didn't get rid of it. As it is it's the most important skill in the game, since on top of being incredibly overpowered by itself it also lets you correct assorted mistakes by simply deleting any surprises in a couple seconds.
The most important guns for battle mode. #1 ballista. 2 rocket launcher (remote detonator) 3 super shot gun & 3 mini gun with the turret attatchment for mancubois
I actually managed to beat the slayer in a 1v1 as a mancubus once. My teammate rage quit on the 5th round so I had to face him at full hp and armour alone. I barely clutched it but it was incredibly intense and fun
In my opinion, I think it ends up depending on the player. As The Slayer, my first few times playing through Battlemode were terrible as it was a new experience and I didn't really have a strategy going into it. I eventually discovered that using a Super Shotgun weapon is best for me, I was able to win around five matches in a row with that strategy alone. During the sixth match it was a Marauder and a Pain Elemental, I was able to down the Marauder eight consecutive times. The player controlling the Pain Elemental kept flying to the highest corner in the map and camping out until the Marauder re-spawned. When I found him, he threw up the soul shield and was able to block my shots. During this, my health was slowly getting chopped down as I tried to switch up my strategy by going for the Pain Elemental first but the Marauder put pressure on me and forced me to retreat to farm for health and resources. I won the next few matches after that failed one and it was a Revenant and a Mancubus, I won the first match with them by utilizing my Super Shotgun alone. Using the meathook to fling myself from the Revenant during mid-flight and down to blast the Mancubus in a hit and run strategy before it shot me at point blank. I destroyed them 3-0 in the first match and in the next match with them, they came back and beat me by a close score. So, as The Slayer, I recommend using different strategies every match you play. Your two weapons should be the ones that deal the largest amount of damage to the demons, make the demon players scramble by making a B-line for them at the start of the match to put pressure on them. Once they start catching on to what you're doing, switch up the strategy by using an ambush style of attack
I played battle mode as a solo queue demon, and I managed to get the argent energy name plate, but then I started getting some 80+ level slayers, and that streak went down hard
I hope Battle Mode is gonna go a long way. Really cool concept, haven't played it myself yet though xD Still in a campaign, but oh God how I want to dive in already
I'd say that hardware is a big factor, being able to cycle through the weapon wheel at lightning speed definitely gives an advantage to combining weapons on PC, hence the slayer being OP in that area.
I wish asymmetrical multiplayers were more popular, one of the most unique multiplayer experience I ever had was in Arkham Origins and it was super fun.
Yeah always throw me off sometimes. Just a few hours ago went into battlemode, the revenant suddenly in front of my face out of nowhere 😐 really hope they fix that
I have been saying this since the game came out. It is ENTIRELY skill based. It reminds me a lot of the old Quake 1v1s where even a small discrepancy in skill/timing the game would end 25-3. If there is a small discrepancy in skill/timing here, it will end in an absolute slaughter. Which is where I think you get a lot of the wrongful "unbalanced" claims.
Double Mancubus with the Aggressive set is the best combo in the game by far. In the right map (mostly where the slayer is at a height disadvantage or in close quarters), a double Mancubus team can double-smoke, double-toxic area, double flamethrower the slayer and bodyblock him into the area and it kill 100-0 the slayer is less than 2 seconds.
I'm not sure I can see that. Every single double mancubus team Ive fought so far has lost pretty hard because they cant chase you and are easy targets for ranged damage. They can't evade ballista/precision bolt shots like the others because they are both the slowest and easiest to hit. Aggressive set means you also can't heal back any of that damage so you have zero sustain. How do you chase a slayer that's moving fast and hitting those shots all the time?
@@ndrsmnz That's why it's so hard to gauge what's good and what isn't. You can win 20 games in a row vs various slayer, and then find that ONE slayer that hits every shot and has perfect weapon usage. It makes you feel like you don't exist on the map. But what has more worth? the 20 games vs 20 people or the 1 game vs the god tier slayer? the god tier slayer is playing at a far higher level and when we discuss competitive balance, that's the only thing that applies.
The only thing that I find to be an annoyance is the slayer's lock on rockets. It's annoying but able to be countered by moving into cover or dodging behind fodder (if pain elemental use your shield).
I tried it out today after beating the game first time. Oh man, I kept losing multiple games as the Slayer haha. Couldn't get a single win. I suck so bad at it :L My hands were literally shaking and I got a major headache. I think I'm getting too old to be any good at PvP games the way I used to when I was younger. I don't know why but now I get nervous and flustered anytime I try out a pvp game and I always hesitate to make good decisions in them. Still very good content! Just not for me. Think I'll stick to PvE and co op content. I guess my days of trying to prove I can push buttons better than someone else across the sea to get a hit of dopamine are over! :L
Now I know I was fighting an semi skilled slayer when I did this but I did manage to 1v1 him as an archvile, so you could possibly do it but it is extremely difficult even against a novice.
You are the only person to say what I've been saying about slayer: weapon switching on pc vs console. I'm on xbox, and trying to do weapon switching on a controller, is MUCH harder than on pc. And its not just about how fast you can swap to your weapons. When I'm in the weapon wheel, my movement stick becomes how I select the weapon I want. This means that while I'm trying to switch weapons, for the entire time I'm in the wheel, I can't move. I can't move, I can't aim. The weapon wheel can also be a little finicky when ur in a pinch, so the delay before it even comes up can get you hit. I did my first campaign run on UV, and I decided to do one on nightmare when I felt that the UV master levels were too easy. I win more than I lose as the slayer in battlemode at this point, but EVERY battle mode match is hard as the slayer, even if I 3-0 the demons, I feel like I fought tooth and nail. Meanwhile, as the demons, it often feels unfair in my favor. I have 1v1'd a slayer cause my teammate was afk the whole match. It is so easy to trap the slayer as a demon, because all you have to do is spawn things in front of and behind him, be that demons or damage volumes. You interrupt his flow with a spawned demon, he turns to get away, only his avenue of escape is blocked by something else, and then I can dump on him. Pain elemental makes this strategy SO easy, as lingering souls creates damage areas you can force the slayer to walk through over and over again.
If you want you can go into the options and decrease the amount of time it takes to bring up the weapon wheel when you hold the button, so you can effectively quickswap. I havent mastered doing this online yet, but it really helped me with my nightmare playthrough
@@fatherravioli Awesome! Thank you! I actually didn't know that, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised, considering how much else can be customized. I will take a look at that, since I'm doing a nightmare playthrough now.
@@baysideplace9194 also mapping the dash to L3 also makes a massive difference in your mobility and aiming. It's very good not having to take your thumb off the stick just to dash
Y'know I haven't played any of this mode myself but seeing this makes me genuinely want to learn to play better and make friends to play with (friends I do not have mind you). It was only pretty recently that I got into Doom as a whole and DAMN I've been missing out lmao
I think the most telling thing we see here is your love of revenant. Ant its for a good reason. My biggest struggle with playing this gamemode so far? Its that demons can not output enough damage on average to kill a slayer. Offensive action sets with the noxious gas hazard can change that, or with the reveants rocket barrage to actually punish the slayer that can change, but its nigh impossible to kill a slayer whos focusd is staying alive. Admitlly, that does mean they arnt focused on killing you, which is good, but it is a bit of a downer when corodinated demons wont peak sightlines, while slayers will never try to engage if they lose any health to summons. Its telling that the ability to put pressure on, even with good aim, is incredibly hard for a demon, while even a non switching slayer can pressure oppenets in an easy way. The maps are often very open, with large open sightlines, that hurt new players a lot while playing to the slayers advantage. Summon AI is terrible, and will never pursue the slayer in any meaningful way, meaning the only way to get summon damage is to summon it at the slayers feet, feet that will move in less then a second, meaning that the only way they will deal damage again is if you resummon them, dropping resources at their last location. The game will activiley punish a demon player for trying to get at least some use out of forcing their summons to be close enough to actually attack.
Its my favourite of the demons and has been since 2016. I'm glad I've put so much time into revenant because I wrote the demon off day one. But then I really started finely tuning what upgrades to take and ramped my movement up. The recent is top tier at Avoiding danger and escaping. Combine that with the insane burst of rocket barrage and you have a great combination.
I haven't played much, around 10 games, so my first impression was/ is the demons were/are way OPd. I've never won as a slayer and haven't lost to one yet either. Myself and another guy were level 2 demons and we wrecked a level 32 slayer. So I'd say until people figure out how to play on console the demons are an easier win for sure at least in the beginning of this games life cycle. I find it hard that at around 10 games in I'm an anomaly at not having a slayer win on either side of play. So i do think on console there are some balancing issues that need to happen.
It's just harder to play slayer on console in general really, since you don't have the advantage of a keyboard and mouse, so the damage output is not at it's highest potential
At first I thought the demons were op and unfair then I found that ballista+remote detonater+super shotgun combo and they quit after every match, that being said I find it much easier for demons to get around on the slayer as when I lose it's usually because they keep running after I kill their teammate
I play as doom elemental, and I’ve had games where me and the random clap the slayer in less than 30 seconds by cornering them with minions and destroying him with the poison field, or just sniping him. On the other end, I’ve had games where I’m killed in literally 10 seconds via ballista rocket launcher combo or sniped by the assault rifle’s semi auto mode. To me it’s just so extreme on both sides, it never feels even. Either one side is getting obliterated or the other, no in between.
Excellent run down! I have one problem with it though - you said you'd never play online matchmaking on your own without a teammate. I understand the sentiment, but not everyone plays the game that way. I think this gives a biased opinion might not be the right one for all players. Though based on your comments we can extrapolate that a Slayer would do better on average than two matchmaking demons.
So far in my experience (only played about 10 matches so far), Slayer seems to have a big advantage do to his great range and mobility. The exception is if the demons have a Pain Elemental. The only matches I've won so far are when I play as a Pain Elemental. The ability to fly freely through the map, high above the Slayer and spawn demons in the direction the slayer is heading is so strong I sometimes don't need a partner, but if my partner is aggressive and even just beelines toward the slayer that helps a lot and the match is over pretty quickly. Most Slayers so far can't seem to deal with that pressure. Note: I am playing on PC.
A lot of this information is now out of date as BM has received a ton of balance changes since this video went live.
I hope to make a followup video to this conversation soon with new changes in mind.
How did you learn to aim that well? Is mostly do to pc hardware and having a computer that consistently stay at 60 FPS? Allowing you to get comfortable with ur settings, gets you sniper like aim?
@@rolan4dezwinz381 smooth fps is definitely a major help. Everything becomes much more responsive!
PNDK&M Do you recommend sensitivity be on low or high? How big of a mouse pad do you feel is best?
@@rolan4dezwinz381 400 dpi & 40 sens (x3) is 1200 edpi. 1200 has been a sweet spot for most shooter players for many years. Some people use large mouse pads and me, I use the largest you can find and my range of motion really gives me an advantage. But it all comes down to personal preference! Hope this helped :)
look, the slayer has had 20 to 200 hours of practise with his toolset before his first match.
The only two problems I have are these:
1. Latency can be a problem, The Slayer will straight up stop moving and on his end hes across the map, but on yours, he's not. Latency and Region issues need to be fixed asap.
2. On the Slayer side, WHERE IS THE MUSIC? GIMME BFG 10000 WHILE I'M PLAYING BATTLEMODE, DUDE!
Happens with demons too. I’ve killed a mancubus in seconds while it’s was midair completely frozen
I have that issue on both sides, getting hit and killed by a projectile that was shot by an enemy that wasn't there. Today I was actually killed by a Revenant rocket that hit me from the left... after I killed the Revenant that was directly in front of me.
But the bfg isn’t good in battle mode you have to direct hit them I rather have the sentinel blood upgrade everytime
@@droy999 he was talking about the song called "BFG-10000" lol
@@droy999 I think he means the music. But I do agree the BFG needs a change, the only reason to take it is for a couple achievements at this point. Gimme Sentinel Infused armour everytime.
People: Demon is OP
Other people: Slayer is OP
Me: Netcode is OP
Netcode is the true final boss of Doom Eternal.
Dalton C underrated comment
people slayer haters: slayer suck
people demon haters: demons suck
me: the campaign is cool
The longer sh*tnetcode is in battlemode the stronger it becomes.
No isabelle is op
If everyone is overpowered, no one is
An intellectual
This is exactly what they should have done, the demons are weak, while the slayer is a insane. They should just give all the demons the same power and abilities they have just like in the campaign.
@@jozaya37 they do and they have more since the player is controlling them while being able to summon demons with another demon player so it can support them through battle.
Everything being too OP > everything being too weak
@@brandonnunez6566 The archvile is missing his flame wave attack, The Marauder his shield, the mancubis aoe attack. The demons don't have there full arsenal, and as for the demon summons there really aren't effective enough, most good slayers ignore them and curb stomp the player demons. I believe only the archvile should summon and the other demons should behave as they do in the campaign, you don't fight a marauder with 10 demons on you do you? But in battlemode you can. I feel like the demons have the short end of the stick most fights go down to a slayer obliterating the demons, or the demons resurrection spamming to victory.
LAG is the real enemy in battlemode.
More powerful then the icon of Sin this lag be
@@bumbowumbo281 it do be like that
@@bumbowumbo281 But the longer this game is out the stronger the icon of sin will become until not even lag is stronger.
@@ararepotato1420 oh dear lord how could I forget?!
Ya
Yeah, okay, but did you know: The longer the Icon of Sin is on earth, the stronger it becomes.
Yeah,okay,but did you know:that you can't just shoot a hole into the surface of Mars.
Yeah, okay, but did you know: the BFG 10,000 is a weapon, not a teleportation device
@@J03F1X1T thats not what it said in the game but ok
You've confused big 10000 with something g else mate
Joey L that was an ion cannon 😤
The Battlemode needs a really huge change: Being able to pick your own music from the game while battling
The Unholy Adventurer that is a really good idea. Maybe make it so you can pick any song you get from the secret discs in the campaign
Michael Berg quake music in battlemode does sound nice
The Unholy Adventurer I remember randomly hearing Phobos Base, one of my favorite tracks in the entire game, start playing in one of my games yesterday. Weird.
How about better hit detection.
I noticed a lot of lagging Slayers among high-level players, it is very fun to get a ballista shot from Slayer, who is behind the wall 5 meters from its edge.
Yes. He just uses 5 weapons in 1 seconds.
I actually had 50% hp and went behind a wal and the server updated and I was dead lol
I fucking hate that. I knew the slayer was aiming at me so I dashed behind a wall and like one second later I hear the blast and I lose half my health.
It's also fun to take damage from the mancubus's flamethrower even tough I dashed far away from him, this goes both ways, the one who gets to be host is the op one lol
SilentGamer true, I literally go to the teleport and find myself being burned, its both ways.
Console: demons are op
Pc: slayer is op
This is the problem i feel
Pretty much. I have to limit my weapon options because it's hard to be precise against a Marauder and Archville combo gunning for you on consoles. Plus the connection issues.
@@NinjapowerMS exactly
@@NinjapowerMS like on the xbox I use just my rb to switch to my main two weapons but rarely go to the weapon wheel as it takes to much time
Bruh i can never be op with my drifting switch lite
@@AverageGamerNub-qf6sp Switch Lites are a scam dude, feels bad.
My favorite strategy is playing as a pain elemental directly above the slayer so they have to look up and take their eyes off my teammate and the summoned demons.
X the T-REX damn that’s smart
*laughs in ballista*
That's a pretty sound strategy, considering how little people look up in games.
So your one of those people
@@XDelirium *gets flashback*
They both are Slayer=skill demons=tactics and pressure
Micro and macro is pretty different
@Frax Maybe in a 1v1 scenario, but if you're talking about teaming or team shooting, then no it's really not hard. I see it all the time in Halo or Gears of War where you have whole teams that lose to me all the time in a 1v1 scenario but as soon as they team shoot there's nothing you can do. Now I know Doom eternal is not either one of those games, but it seems this game mode is set up in a similar manner so that's why I made the comparison I did.
If you call running away until the other demon respawn= tactics lol
Darren The Dude As if that’s all you do to win as a demon. Demons that know what they’re doing can trap the slayer in noxious hazards, while inflicting their weapon damage, summon minions to block the slayers movement, use power upgrade heals to survive longer and block loot at the appropriate moment. So yeah like it or not those are tactics.
Frax The slayer has tactics as well obviously and a skillful player can easily win by pressuring the demons. But being a team of one it mostly depends on your skills of the mechanics and aiming to win. You can have a passive play-style as the slayer and still win (ballista & precision bolt quick switch from a distance). But as a demon you can’t win by yourself (unless the slayers isn’t good) and if your teammate isn’t pressuring the high skilled slayer with you then the match is basically over gg slayer.
When I first started playing as The Slayer in Battlemode I was straight up getting owned. I learned the maps, choke points, and how to prioritize demon players. I’m now a very formidable Slayer player but crave those matches with high skill demon players. When I get in one I’ll rematch til they leave because it’s good practice. Blowing teams out 3-0 is gratifying but I love when it’s 3-2 and I barely won with my palms sweating and heart racing.
Try energy drinks for tough matches. Concentrated monster is my favorite, everything around you slows down seconds after injection and it doesn't need a big cyringe.
@@overmind06 yea I typically drink a bang but those concentrated monsters are something else bro!
@Nathanael Choo No I play on Xbox, but I use an Elite Series 2 controller so I do have a competitive advantage
-gives you a demon that can fly
-punishes you for flying
Normally : 2 humans need to work together to beat the powerful demon
In DOOM : demons need to work together to beat a human
I personally think the game is Slayer favored but everyone is bad, myself included. And demons win if both teams suck
There has been a balance patch for console that nerfs the demons and some of their action skills!
This should hopefully even the odds slightly on the Console Arena as they don't have the same damage and cooldowns available to them.
Check out Patch Notes here: slayersclub.bethesda.net/en/article/aemhDCRbPHlcHpXOXspv2/april-9-battlemode-update-for-console
Yeah they need to add more ammo , for the slayer at the start of the game I think , adding a second doesnt make a big difference. For consoles.
As a console Slayer player (I have no friends) I didn't think the nerf to demon was needed. I have felt that Slayer needs to start with less health and armor. I rarely ever lose a round and have been feeling Slayer is dumb strong. Just my opinion tho.
Well what weapons do you use and what's your level for slayer ? How many games do you win ?
Lorenzo Q I use the ballista and super shotgun and win most slayer matches on Xbox
Ok add me XNMEXKARMA, we can play !
The slayers need to hit good and find out which weapons work against the different demons and demons need to stop PICKING THE MARAUDER. EVERY. SINGLE. ROUND.
You need 1 tho , he does crazy damage and keeps alot of pressure on the slayer.
I’m fine with people going marauder, mostly because this means they don’t go Archvile. As someone who uses Archvile almost exclusively for demon rounds, it means slayers have no clue what I’m going to do. This leads to hilarious instances where a slayer dies by charging head first into a flame wall.
@@noahhorner231 That wall is more annoying than the elemental's shield man, you can just deny entry and light the ground on fire, oh-oh hot hot
@@noahhorner231 yes but most people just go rush the slayer and die instantly. if a marauder player is actually good its fine but most of the time they arent
Pain elemental for me. Every. single. time! :))
There's a few problems with Battle mode imo. Slayer ranged dmg is just too high, demons can be frustrating if you matchmake alone, the lagg is just way too frequent and ruins the entire match and the matchmake is terrible. I once matchmaked together with a dude who went Marauder and probably thought he's a Slayer cuz of the shotgun cuz he was shooting only the demons.
The combo is incredibly strong but not unbeatable. That's why it's such a hard question to answer, if at all, because there's always solutions that get you an edge. If you play majorly defensive at the start and get demons out, the slayer is the one that's forced to act.
There's no denying its strength though. 1000HP anywhere on the map is 1000HP anywhere on the map.
Marauder probably just trolling
seems like you were playing with a crack baby
Try playing around tactically with this as a demon. For instance have your partner peak out from cover to distract the slayer while you hug the side of the map and flank him. Also a few of the demons can utilize the dash, this can really F up a slayers tracking. Be unpredictable
@Dam Sen Two of the highest damage attackd even mentioned here in the video are technically sniper shots(one practically a railgun), both of which by design in Eternal would be any player's first pick for long range attacks
Whoever has the shittier internet and gets to zip zap around the map while the servers creak under the pressure
I didn't want to cover latency in this discussion because it's an artificial factor that isn't related to the game mode at all. If the game is laggy, Slayer has advantage because of speed, damage and difficulty to hit.
@@PNDKM yeah it's the right decision to make because *hopefully* any video that covers this topic will soon be outdated. Hopefully. But right now it's hard to tell if you ever deserve the loss, or the win, in way too many games.
@@PNDKM While we're discussing lag here. (I get why you didn't discuss it in the video.) On Xbox, I have won multiple matches as the demons because the slayer lags out and gets hung up on thin air, and I can just mug him cause he's stuck in place for two whole seconds.
@@baysideplace9194 same thing happens but in reverse as demon. Seems to be universal right now.
@@PNDKM I respectfully disagree. Demons lagging they have aoe with all attacks and their minions do not lag. Therefore if the slayer lags he will get hit or body blocked by invisible ai because to the ai the slayer is not where he thinks he is. Only games I lost as slayer were when I got killed by minions that were ghosting me. On good connection battlemode is amazing. But on bad connection battlemode is more frustrating than even doom 2016 laggy servers. Btw nice content, Pizz4 Papa trickshot here long time no see.
Oh the irony, in order to be effective and dominate the Slayer, the forces of Chaos must be organized.
No wonder they were never able to kill him in the millions of years he was in their dimension
A slayer with good aim that utilizes the quickswitch tech, equals demons dead within 3 seconds.
When I quickswap ballista and super shotgun, they barely stand a chance
If they don’t watch line of sight :) demons do this all the time, where they just kinda sit there and let themselves get hit
@@onyxtheslayer3334 I still havent seen demons take down an experienced slayer on PC :) Some of the weapons need a slight nerf on PC, since you can get of 1800dmg in literally 1sec with quickswitch and decent aim.
@@onyxtheslayer3334 Which demons don't need line of sight to attack? The moment they stick their head out, I can melt half their health.
Ballista+SSG is all fun and games until the demons run away and spawn 12 heavy demons
It's like Hugo Martin said(paraphrasing)
'The slayer is super powerful so the demons have to work together'
Just A Bit What’s the point of quotes if you’re paraphrasing?
At the end of the day, most people would rather blame the game for their loss rather than look at what mistakes they made and try to get better from them.
when people freeze in Air I can see the game at fault.
Naw this mode sucks, should have been shipped along with a traditional deathmatch at the very least.
@@corwinsmith1502 I was a bit dissapointed when i've seen that there was no regular deathmatch
When i die with the slayer being behind a thick wall teleporting to me, and instantly taking 75% of my health, i'm pretty sure it's the game's fault.
No multiplayer is good my guy
Me: sees a Slayer with a golden armor.
Also me: alt f4
That moment when it's actually the Phobos armor...
Antimanele104 phobos armour looks better imo
@@ScrodumHat I happen to agree with you, good sir.
When you're the Slayer all you gotta do is rush SSG and Ballista, it's really tough to beat, it's alittle more fun playing as the demons, Mancubus is my favorite.
I use a bit of lock on burst with the rpg as well
@@john02222 yeah it does crazy damage, if they can't break the lock on they're dead quick
Definitely a longer one today. I feel like there's been enough time to really go over a bunch of reasons people might feel either side is more beneficial. Wanted to collect a bunch of thoughts into one place and see if anybody feels the same way.
Enjoy!
This is brilliant Ketchup!
When both sides have OP qualities it's hard to decide but this makes it fun it's but this does mean you can get destroyed quickly making the game seem unfair because you don't really get chance to respond slash learn lot's of games can be like this don't know if this game has a pratice mode but that's helps alot with games like these👊
LOL THE END WHERE I FREEZE AND YOU GUYS DELETE ME AND FREAK OUT IS HILARIOUS HAHAHA IM NOT EVEN MAD
@@kroniid3978 Did you freeze??? man, I was hype and everything
LOL
@@PNDKM Yeah if you look closely I am walking in place and cant move hahahaha
My biggest problem with battlemode is that it fucks up the weapon wheel
I think the problem is that the slayer gets an amazing tutorial though the campaign and the demons are lacking a good tutorial hopefully they add more like summon strategies it might make a bit easier to learn how to play the demons
memetard Yea. It’s a much easier transition to come off nightmare mode on the campaign and to go right into battlemode
I found the demon controls confusing and most matches had around .5 of a second to try and figure them out before being hit with a sniper shot, balista, rocket and a super shotgun.
I honestly think it's very balanced, just need server help and bigger maps (maybe) and .... that's about it for me... pretty satisfied, cause I cant get this experience anywhere else
yea server needs stability before any real data can be obtained
- Nohvotic -
i don't think the map sizes is the problem, i'd just like more maps or an option to vote on what map you want like what Mario Kart 8 does
I started playing battle mode yesterday with a friend playing as demons. The first couple rounds we were getting absolutely destroyed trying to find a pair of demons that worked. Then we picked marauder and archvile and started playing really aggressively, we didn’t lose any matches after that
Play as Slayer.
"LOOT BLOCK"
I die...
I feel like it’s more stressful playing as slayer than as the demons, less of an expectation to win as the demons
I think the fact that there is a constant argument about what side is stronger (with people who have strong opinions on both sides) is a testament that the multiplayer is somewhat balanced lol. Taking into account the skill level of the person playing the slayer, and the cooperative teamwork of the demon players, it honestly could go in any direction. But I do believe with everything considered the Slayer have the upper hand... IF THE PLAYER IS SKILLED!
supershotgun melts demons almost instantly.
@@vyor8837 Partially true. The super shotgun alone don't really melt anything because the fire rate is so slow. A good Demon Slayer knows how to bypass that with weapon swaps so they can deal damage within the time frame of the super shotgun's reload. If you're a player that rely only on the super shotgun, you won't get far at all.
In the end it still circles back to having a good Demon Slayer that competent and knows those nuances, and takes advantage of them at every chance they get. There's no way around it: the Demon Slayer must be good for the fight to be somewhat winnable unless the demons are completely incompetent!
@@justinp9170 It kills most demons in 3 to 4 hits. And with the chain refills health.
@@vyor8837 the fire rate is too slow. How much damage you taking and not putting out in between each reload? And I think you mean armor... the fire on the meat hook refills armor, not health.
@@justinp9170 same difference. And demons don't do much damage in the half second reload time.
Various demon options to hound the slayer differently
Everyone: INSTALOCK MARAUDER
I think you hit the nail on the head in regards to weapon switching. On console you come to a complete stop, even if it is only briefly, and under pressure you don't always get the gun you want either.
i really enjoy the way you take a solid competitive mindset into this game. i really hope it continues to get supported and we see a long lived community around this game mode, because i really am having a blast and loving the content.
It's in my nature I think. I love exploring my favourite games like this and the higher level of it forever fascinates me. I just try and put those thoughts into video form 🤣
I think a big factor in this mode is pad vs KB&M. I play on Xbox and I've struggled hard playing Slayer
@Aquaphene hows that?
I mean you're just at a disadvantage, you can't achieve the full potential of the slayer with a controller, it is what it is
15:05 I've never played a second match. They always leave, even when I lose, I don't get it 😓
"Demon's can't 1v1 a Slayer" is definitely not always true. I was playing Archvile, matched with a rando Marauder tonight. We lost the first round, and the rando left the game. I actually ended up taking the next 3 rounds solo by adjusting strategy and taking care. Slayer was actually fairly low skill, we just didn't coordinate well on the first go round
From what I've played, I think it all depends on who's playing what, I've had games where I play slayer and only win one round, and I've played demon and only won one round. Some people are just really good
I'm pretty sure that on PC the gamemode is really well balanced, but on console, the limited options of the Slayer, and the fact that it's skill can't reach the level of a PC player kind of makes him a bit weaker, because in Battlemode aiming and skill for the Slayer matters but for the demons, they almost don't even have to aim. But it was an awesome analysis. Loved the video thank you.
Aim isn't really the problem. If you are well versed in playing FPS with a controller, you will have really good and fast aim. What hurts Slayer more is the limited weapon swap. It's harder to switch to the right weapon when needed because we don't have the key bindings like a PC player does.
@@theSUICIDEfox true
@@theSUICIDEfox They should let us bind weapons to the dpad, since it is unused in battlemode.
@Frax Doom Eternal isnt compatible with M/KB on console yet.
I’m a level 51 slayer and I don’t seem to struggle i rarely lose.maybe I haven’t faced a well coordinated team
As someone who has been playing only marauder for while, matches either go completely one sided or the other. If the slayer plays aggressively, he can usually wipe out one demon pretty much immediately with starting ammo if they try and cross the map. If he plays slower and gets caught in a corner, he melts so fast its insane. It was nice to see this explored a little more in depth than just my analysis
Thank you for this and your lack of bias. We really need this for the community.
I do personally feel slayer has the edge on PC, but I didn't want to make a video about why I think the way I do, I wanted it to be open ended and fair to both sides.
Thanks for this analysis! I didn't know the precision shot did so much. I'll admit I just started playing after the first level and wanted to play deathmatch but it's grown on me. I'll take these tips though.
Yeah you wish they had TDM and DM
@@artemperesada3454 lmao yes... Yes I do I went and posted in their forums too lol
The proplem is that the demons can chill if i play as a demon its like this:Ok i spawn attack ok yeah hes shooting cool
As slayer:WTF IRT4TIEUR 6s5ez
God, that laugh when you killed the slayer out of the teleporter. I can't tell you how many times I've made that same laugh in Battlemode HAHA
This is a matter of Slayer skill only. If he is good, then the demons have no chance, because trash and summoned demons are almost not a threat and the player can move on the map as he wants. Especially when he choose a perk for a quick dash cooldown. Only unlucky situations can swing the balance in the direction of demons, for example, when a player cannot find a trash for ammo or a hook use, or when random trash actions lead to a body block that was difficult to foresee. The design of the maps generally decides more in the chances of winning than the actions of the players, because on some maps the demons have nowhere to hide.
The game mode is very far from a good balance. And although it is cheerful and can take several days, in this form it will never become either popular or interesting enough to form his own community and competitions.
Everything the author said in this video is true for casual players or average players. There are a lot of these people, and there is still some fun for them. But if you are a skilled and experienced player, this mode will simply disappoint you.
Basically demons have to rely on AI to win, while slayer dont. 5-6 damage with lmb for a demon? Laughable.
We need ranks. And a different one for the slayer/demons, to make sure badass slayers go against very experienced demons.
there are ranks, the frames around your name in battlemode symbolize it, you have copper, silver, gold, diamond and the red top rank
@@artemperesada3454 those don't mean a lot imo. I got most of my Slayer borders cuz I main demon and a lot of Slayers don't put up much of a fight. Sure, the red looks cool, but it doesn't mean I'm a good player.
I do wish they had a better "training" mode for the demons, aside from that tutorial thing. Maybe even a bot mode.
I play Marauder and I have over whelmed a slayer before by myself it is just skill vs skill
Battlemode is so underrated
On PC when playing the slayer I feel I have to go easy on the demons who can be killed on the pre-engagement some of the time. Slayer is just too flexible vs the Demons who have long cool downs more suited to controllers.
When you are the demons (heh! lol) you can re rushed at the start of the map and cant even set up, the spawned demons are so slow that Slayers will ignore them even if you strategically place a frontline as a buffer for such huge burst damage. A Slayer that doesnt hold back can slaughter even the most coordinated demons.
Feels like spawn demon body blocking is more useful than their damage output. Slowing the Slayer down seems to be the best strategy but maybe they should add a mobility debuff to some of the demon attacks. Maybe there could be the purple goo that slows the Slayer but not the demons.
It always feels more rewarding to kill the Slayer than it is to kill the Demons.
I find that only tends to work on slower targets (like the Mancubus). For demons like the Archvile and the Pain Elemental they can very quickly block attacks (and if you get the Archvile's flamewall upgrade then it reflects the attacks back), plus if the Marauder and the Revenant utilizes their mobility more (and the Marauder's damage resistance buff) then they can be pretty hard to hit.
At the end of the day it's mostly just about who can out-do who.
The answer to this question is one that might relay on the metrics that we don't have access to but Id probably does for balancing reasons. I can imagine the overall win/loss rate for both parties should even out to around 50% for any given match.
I would love to see those stats. Wonder if we ever can one day.
I’m on console and I win about 8-10 of my matches as the slayer? I think it just comes down to the skill of each player. I’ve ran into matches where the demons are really coordinated and kill me but I’ve ran into even more where I can take control of the battlefield and overcome both of them easily
Windebieste 888 I think it’s easier to get gud as the slayer quickly because you’re coming off of the campaign playing as him.
Regarding match making as demons, I think this will improve as the community skill level increases. For instance "Oh you're a Revenant I'll be manucubus and we both have some idea of basic strategy etc.". I think there are also possibilities for larger concepts with this mode, like conquest with 3 slayers 6 demons, or even CTF. Let's keep this MP scene going guys
That feeling at 18:23 that's why this mode is so awesome
Maybe instead of more Slayers (keep the Slayer himself more of a constant and less variable), we get another player on the Slayer team to be mission control/combat support (VEGA, Samuel,...) and grant massive external assistance (not just armor, ammo and health but also activating teleport gates, traps and providing intel on demons). It could be from a 2v3 to a 2v5 depending on how helpful the other player can be.
This mode would be about an overwhelming powerhouse with a high-utility sidekick tactician against multiple subversive, ruthless, intelligent and cunning strategists. It can either end in a slaughter of the hellborns or a massive bloodbath of the Slayer. Still skill vs strategy, just on a higher level.
@@xenotyphon sounds cool!
In my experience as a fighting game player, if people argue that one side is highly favored but can’t agree which side is the favored side, that’s usually a sign that it’s pretty balanced
You should do a video on the strengths and weaknesses of each demon with a ranking
I really hope you doom players keep this version of the game. it sounds interesting and has a high skill-ceiling. A lot of games I played competitively have whiners, and the nerfs and buffs make characters I used to love suffer to the point they aren't fun anymore.
Doot Revenant brings me such joy
I play on console and I main slayer and really all I do because of my limited options is super shotgun and ballista. I just started multiplayer and I have around 100+ (estimate) hours in campaign
i really really really like this video, well done, objective, and understands the nature of asymmetrical games, demons, and slayers.
I thought the demons were op on console from the start. But I managed to figure it out and now I almost always win
Damn dude, great video! You go over everything in such depth, and I feel like you really make a case for why people should play the mode in the first place. I wasn't sure about it until you talked about it, now I really wanna give it a try.
No debate, slayers stronger because he has ballista super shotty hotswap, it's an instant win button against anything that isn't as fast as you
Quickswap cheese ruins both singleplayer and multiplayer on PC, kind of surprised that they didn't get rid of it. As it is it's the most important skill in the game, since on top of being incredibly overpowered by itself it also lets you correct assorted mistakes by simply deleting any surprises in a couple seconds.
@@eugenebarrett yeah, I'm int between on it, it's the only way to survive in higher levels idk, it's fun but breaks the game
The most important guns for battle mode. #1 ballista. 2 rocket launcher (remote detonator) 3 super shot gun & 3 mini gun with the turret attatchment for mancubois
So to be a good slayer you have to have a PC. To be a good demon you have to have friends. Damn
I actually managed to beat the slayer in a 1v1 as a mancubus once. My teammate rage quit on the 5th round so I had to face him at full hp and armour alone. I barely clutched it but it was incredibly intense and fun
Same, except I was a Marauder. It's weird that the only round we lost was when I had my teammate.
In my opinion, I think it ends up depending on the player.
As The Slayer, my first few times playing through Battlemode were terrible as it was a new experience and I didn't really have a strategy going into it. I eventually discovered that using a Super Shotgun weapon is best for me, I was able to win around five matches in a row with that strategy alone.
During the sixth match it was a Marauder and a Pain Elemental, I was able to down the Marauder eight consecutive times. The player controlling the Pain Elemental kept flying to the highest corner in the map and camping out until the Marauder re-spawned. When I found him, he threw up the soul shield and was able to block my shots. During this, my health was slowly getting chopped down as I tried to switch up my strategy by going for the Pain Elemental first but the Marauder put pressure on me and forced me to retreat to farm for health and resources.
I won the next few matches after that failed one and it was a Revenant and a Mancubus, I won the first match with them by utilizing my Super Shotgun alone. Using the meathook to fling myself from the Revenant during mid-flight and down to blast the Mancubus in a hit and run strategy before it shot me at point blank. I destroyed them 3-0 in the first match and in the next match with them, they came back and beat me by a close score.
So, as The Slayer, I recommend using different strategies every match you play. Your two weapons should be the ones that deal the largest amount of damage to the demons, make the demon players scramble by making a B-line for them at the start of the match to put pressure on them. Once they start catching on to what you're doing, switch up the strategy by using an ambush style of attack
Which is stronger?
Story mode.
Go play Campaign and have fun :)
They need to add The Tyrant as a playable demon
I played battle mode as a solo queue demon, and I managed to get the argent energy name plate, but then I started getting some 80+ level slayers, and that streak went down hard
I hope Battle Mode is gonna go a long way. Really cool concept, haven't played it myself yet though xD Still in a campaign, but oh God how I want to dive in already
This is a hidden gem in strategy games. Easily can see this in a esports spotlight
I'd say that hardware is a big factor, being able to cycle through the weapon wheel at lightning speed definitely gives an advantage to combining weapons on PC, hence the slayer being OP in that area.
Dangelo ROMERO absolutely. I play on Xbox and have never lost as a demon
I wish asymmetrical multiplayers were more popular, one of the most unique multiplayer experience I ever had was in Arkham Origins and it was super fun.
Biggest challenge in this mode is the lag of the servers
Yeah always throw me off sometimes. Just a few hours ago went into battlemode, the revenant suddenly in front of my face out of nowhere 😐 really hope they fix that
When I started the video I thought maybe both sides are OP because it's about the characters it's about the players
The remote detonation is impossible to avoid for a pain elemental unless they perfectly position their shield.
I have been saying this since the game came out. It is ENTIRELY skill based. It reminds me a lot of the old Quake 1v1s where even a small discrepancy in skill/timing the game would end 25-3. If there is a small discrepancy in skill/timing here, it will end in an absolute slaughter. Which is where I think you get a lot of the wrongful "unbalanced" claims.
Double Mancubus with the Aggressive set is the best combo in the game by far.
In the right map (mostly where the slayer is at a height disadvantage or in close quarters), a double Mancubus team can double-smoke, double-toxic area, double flamethrower the slayer and bodyblock him into the area and it kill 100-0 the slayer is less than 2 seconds.
I'm not sure I can see that. Every single double mancubus team Ive fought so far has lost pretty hard because they cant chase you and are easy targets for ranged damage. They can't evade ballista/precision bolt shots like the others because they are both the slowest and easiest to hit. Aggressive set means you also can't heal back any of that damage so you have zero sustain. How do you chase a slayer that's moving fast and hitting those shots all the time?
@@PNDKM the slayer is trash and misses 85% of the time
@@ndrsmnz That's why it's so hard to gauge what's good and what isn't. You can win 20 games in a row vs various slayer, and then find that ONE slayer that hits every shot and has perfect weapon usage. It makes you feel like you don't exist on the map.
But what has more worth? the 20 games vs 20 people or the 1 game vs the god tier slayer? the god tier slayer is playing at a far higher level and when we discuss competitive balance, that's the only thing that applies.
me and my friend are VERY coordinated as demons and can agree thats if the demons play smart and capitalize properly they are stronger
The only thing that I find to be an annoyance is the slayer's lock on rockets. It's annoying but able to be countered by moving into cover or dodging behind fodder (if pain elemental use your shield).
It is seriously such fun! GG ID! :D X
I tried it out today after beating the game first time. Oh man, I kept losing multiple games as the Slayer haha. Couldn't get a single win. I suck so bad at it :L My hands were literally shaking and I got a major headache. I think I'm getting too old to be any good at PvP games the way I used to when I was younger. I don't know why but now I get nervous and flustered anytime I try out a pvp game and I always hesitate to make good decisions in them. Still very good content! Just not for me. Think I'll stick to PvE and co op content. I guess my days of trying to prove I can push buttons better than someone else across the sea to get a hit of dopamine are over! :L
Yea I agree PvP is not fun
Now I know I was fighting an semi skilled slayer when I did this but I did manage to 1v1 him as an archvile, so you could possibly do it but it is extremely difficult even against a novice.
You are the only person to say what I've been saying about slayer: weapon switching on pc vs console. I'm on xbox, and trying to do weapon switching on a controller, is MUCH harder than on pc. And its not just about how fast you can swap to your weapons. When I'm in the weapon wheel, my movement stick becomes how I select the weapon I want. This means that while I'm trying to switch weapons, for the entire time I'm in the wheel, I can't move. I can't move, I can't aim. The weapon wheel can also be a little finicky when ur in a pinch, so the delay before it even comes up can get you hit. I did my first campaign run on UV, and I decided to do one on nightmare when I felt that the UV master levels were too easy. I win more than I lose as the slayer in battlemode at this point, but EVERY battle mode match is hard as the slayer, even if I 3-0 the demons, I feel like I fought tooth and nail. Meanwhile, as the demons, it often feels unfair in my favor. I have 1v1'd a slayer cause my teammate was afk the whole match. It is so easy to trap the slayer as a demon, because all you have to do is spawn things in front of and behind him, be that demons or damage volumes. You interrupt his flow with a spawned demon, he turns to get away, only his avenue of escape is blocked by something else, and then I can dump on him. Pain elemental makes this strategy SO easy, as lingering souls creates damage areas you can force the slayer to walk through over and over again.
If you want you can go into the options and decrease the amount of time it takes to bring up the weapon wheel when you hold the button, so you can effectively quickswap. I havent mastered doing this online yet, but it really helped me with my nightmare playthrough
@@fatherravioli Awesome! Thank you! I actually didn't know that, but I guess I shouldn't be surprised, considering how much else can be customized. I will take a look at that, since I'm doing a nightmare playthrough now.
@@baysideplace9194 also mapping the dash to L3 also makes a massive difference in your mobility and aiming. It's very good not having to take your thumb off the stick just to dash
@@Serafin0707 Yeah, that I've got on my right bumper, and jump on my left bumper.
Y'know I haven't played any of this mode myself but seeing this makes me genuinely want to learn to play better and make friends to play with (friends I do not have mind you). It was only pretty recently that I got into Doom as a whole and DAMN I've been missing out lmao
I think the most telling thing we see here is your love of revenant. Ant its for a good reason. My biggest struggle with playing this gamemode so far? Its that demons can not output enough damage on average to kill a slayer. Offensive action sets with the noxious gas hazard can change that, or with the reveants rocket barrage to actually punish the slayer that can change, but its nigh impossible to kill a slayer whos focusd is staying alive. Admitlly, that does mean they arnt focused on killing you, which is good, but it is a bit of a downer when corodinated demons wont peak sightlines, while slayers will never try to engage if they lose any health to summons. Its telling that the ability to put pressure on, even with good aim, is incredibly hard for a demon, while even a non switching slayer can pressure oppenets in an easy way. The maps are often very open, with large open sightlines, that hurt new players a lot while playing to the slayers advantage. Summon AI is terrible, and will never pursue the slayer in any meaningful way, meaning the only way to get summon damage is to summon it at the slayers feet, feet that will move in less then a second, meaning that the only way they will deal damage again is if you resummon them, dropping resources at their last location. The game will activiley punish a demon player for trying to get at least some use out of forcing their summons to be close enough to actually attack.
Its my favourite of the demons and has been since 2016. I'm glad I've put so much time into revenant because I wrote the demon off day one. But then I really started finely tuning what upgrades to take and ramped my movement up. The recent is top tier at Avoiding danger and escaping. Combine that with the insane burst of rocket barrage and you have a great combination.
That would make it to easy for the demons
I haven't played much, around 10 games, so my first impression was/ is the demons were/are way OPd. I've never won as a slayer and haven't lost to one yet either. Myself and another guy were level 2 demons and we wrecked a level 32 slayer.
So I'd say until people figure out how to play on console the demons are an easier win for sure at least in the beginning of this games life cycle. I find it hard that at around 10 games in I'm an anomaly at not having a slayer win on either side of play. So i do think on console there are some balancing issues that need to happen.
It's just harder to play slayer on console in general really, since you don't have the advantage of a keyboard and mouse, so the damage output is not at it's highest potential
If you can't tell which side is stronger
Then its balanced
The Crane Agree xD
That double Marauder combo is fucking scary.
When i killed a Revenant i began to chase a Marauder. He went to a portal, thinking he was the Slayer, but he cornered himself and died.
At first I thought the demons were op and unfair then I found that ballista+remote detonater+super shotgun combo and they quit after every match, that being said I find it much easier for demons to get around on the slayer as when I lose it's usually because they keep running after I kill their teammate
The true MVP on the demon side is the carcass demon
Yeha. When it's not putting a wall right in front of you trying to run away though LOL
Carcass can be a blessing and a curse for you as the demon
@@PNDKM The amount of times I've died as demon or slayer because of the carcass shield is ridiculous
I found a glitch by accident where one player demon can resurrect infinitely.
7:15 what a shot lol.. great video too.. new sub buddy, cheers
I play as doom elemental, and I’ve had games where me and the random clap the slayer in less than 30 seconds by cornering them with minions and destroying him with the poison field, or just sniping him. On the other end, I’ve had games where I’m killed in literally 10 seconds via ballista rocket launcher combo or sniped by the assault rifle’s semi auto mode. To me it’s just so extreme on both sides, it never feels even. Either one side is getting obliterated or the other, no in between.
Excellent run down! I have one problem with it though - you said you'd never play online matchmaking on your own without a teammate. I understand the sentiment, but not everyone plays the game that way. I think this gives a biased opinion might not be the right one for all players. Though based on your comments we can extrapolate that a Slayer would do better on average than two matchmaking demons.
maybe it would have been better to make 3-4 demons vs 2 slayers with half the damage that way both teams need to cooperate
So far in my experience (only played about 10 matches so far), Slayer seems to have a big advantage do to his great range and mobility. The exception is if the demons have a Pain Elemental. The only matches I've won so far are when I play as a Pain Elemental. The ability to fly freely through the map, high above the Slayer and spawn demons in the direction the slayer is heading is so strong I sometimes don't need a partner, but if my partner is aggressive and even just beelines toward the slayer that helps a lot and the match is over pretty quickly. Most Slayers so far can't seem to deal with that pressure.
Note: I am playing on PC.
what's clear is the game is actually more balanced than people give it credit, Id just needs to fix server issues and netcode
I really want a netcode fix because then our community data would be so much more reliable for this kind of discussion.