Ton of respect for what this horse did. When you breeze through 6 of the biggest G1 races in Europe at distances from 8f to 12f the way STS did, it's no fluke.
To one of the all time great trainers, Mr Jon Oxx. He announced his retirement at the end of the season. What a gent, what a trainer and what a lovely lovely man. Mr Oxx, I wish you the best of luck what I hope is a long and healthy and happy retirement. Sea the stars was the best I've seen, masterly handled by you. Well done.
Thing that amazes me with this is how he has the ability to win over 1m. He was nowhere near optimum trip here, but had the pace to track the leaders and use the stamina to get him home. The way he improved up in trip was spectacular.
Best horse I have seen in a long long time. Won 6 group one's so is the best. I was lucky to see him this day and backed him to win! Love this horse. His win in the arc proved everything!
The time over the mile suggested something different, what he did over further was different class. Frankel was a beast over a mile but up in trip not in this fella's league. His stride length was like comparing Usain Bolt to Carl Lewis, both class but up in trip no contest.
He won this race in 1:35:80. That is a MONSTER time for a mile on grass. To put it into perspective, the breeders cup mile on DIRT that year was won in 1:35:30. Normally the dirt miles in good weather are approx 4 seconds faster than a grass mile in Europe in good weather. Also, Frankel won 2 years later on identical ground on this exact track by 6 lengths in 1:37:90. So you can pretty much say that if Sea the Stars was in this race, Frankel would have been 6 lengths clear of the field, but Sea the Stars would have been 6 lengths clear of Frankel . Just to note, He pretty much matched, got close to or beat the track records in nearly every race he ran. His arc was only 1.5 seconds outside the fastest time ever, and he was being eased down at the end. Frankel is rated 147, StS 134, Yet StS always ran very close to race record times, whereas Frankel only got very close to a race record once in 14 starts... I have no clue where this 147 comes from, it's way too high. If you're breaking or squalling track records, and are still only getting 133-134, then that makes it impossible to get above 140. Frankel got above 145 without beating any track records, StS couldn't get above 135 and was recording some of the fastest race time's in history every time he ran. For StS to have gotten 147 he would have had to break world records for speed in almost every race he ran. Timeform is a mess. Black Caviar won 25 races in a row, and was only rated 136, Frankel won 14/14 in some pretty decent times, and get's the highest rating of all time?
nonsense.sea the stars barely won this race and a bunch of other horses were nearby him at the finish.this means he was just a little bit better than this field.in frankel's race he strung them out.
@@twalibrahat3209 Frankel won by distances because there was nothing to bt people forget he bt Canford cliffs but he was getting weight due to age he bt cirrus des aigles and St Nicholas Abbey over 1m2 they were best at 1m4 and on the decline when he raced them rest he bt were ordinary sea the stars bt top horses every race 6 classic winners 3 breeders cup winners Arlington million winner all multiple g1 winners yes he never won by far cause he wasn't a flashy horse he played with his opponents. And remember he won 6 g1s in 3 countries over 3 different distances all in 6 months no horse has ever done that what recordsdoes Frankel have apart from being overrated
I only wish that we could one day do a virtual race meeting, with sea the stars, frankel, delegator, master craftsman, st nicholas abbey, rip van winkel and all the other greats to have a head to head, my god how epic would hat be?
Sea The Stars winning time 1:35.88? Frankel winning time 1:37.8? Two different types of racing but you have to say Frankel would've set it up nicely for Sea The Stars to win.
Given all of the success that STS had as a 3yr.old, I don't blame the owners for retiring him. But I for one would have certainly loved to have seen STS race again as a 4yr.old. Same with Mastercraftsman.
Good win. Someone says Dancing Brave was better. None of these is in the same class as the great Zenyatta. She is truly the "horse of the century". She is making the same headlines that Dan Patch did in the last century. Expect the Hollywood movie soon.
STS won better races over a wider range of distances than Frankel , plus his guineas time was much faster than Frankel's , considering how easy he crossed the line while Frankel was flat out. And STS's time was a course record in the Juddmonte International , again faster than Frankel's time in the same race. And to add an Arc , Derby, Eclipse and Irish champion to the list is the ultimate racing CV and all done in the space of 6 months. We mightn't see likes again . STS & Frankel are arguably the best two horses we have seen, but Frankel was the ultimate miler while STS was the ultimate racehorse
+contee12345 , Thats a fair stupid response , ground was actually the same (conditions & days ???) . I now know all i need to know about your knowledge , LOL !!!!!!!!!
+Curraghrun and you clearly don't watch must racing as you would of known frankel was running into a strong headwind , sts wasn't , argument over except it and watch more racing as you clearly need too!
I'm a huge fan of thoroughbred racing and I often bet on races at my local OTB. But I admit, I usually just keep up with North American horses. But recently I have started watching Sea The Stars, and this horse just accelerates at will. Gio Ponti, arguably, is the best turf horse in North America, but Sea The Stars imo would have no trouble at all putting Gio Ponti away. And Gio Ponti is no slouch.
one of the best race horses ever an absolutle legend in a unique class of its own that only the best would ever have a chance of reaching the levels of quality this horse had, i was so sorry to see it go to stud i hope many good things come from this horse n it could be more history in the making
i know times aren't all that but on the same ground, good to firm, he's nearly a second and a half quicker that frankel.... you've got to think that if they were both in this race, and kinane hadn't used the horse up trying to follow frankel's crazy early pace that he'd have got to the 'freak' on the rising ground and been in front on the line. don't get me wrong frankel's a great horse, but in my opinion this fella is something else. so clever he always did just what was required and no more..
@GBeret83 At least they've raced Zenyatta 19 times... This is what I mean about feeling let down when these great horses race only 9 times and then we don't see them again.
MrPapaBill. Dan Patch was a racehorse. He was probably more famous in his time than STS is now. You have to remember that Standardbred racing was more popular than Thoroughbred racing at the time. Just because Standardbred racing is not big in Europe doesn't mean it is not important. Hambletonian, Messenger, Greyhound and Dan Patch were the famous racehorses of the past. They were known all over the world at the time. Sea Bird is only known in Europe. Zenyatta is also known worldwide.
One of the reasons they go up in trip is that they are not fast enough to win over the shorter distances! To answer your question . He could go up in trip and win, but so what? You might as well ask why STS or Gallileo didn't run in the Gold Cup. Camelot is a very good horse but O'Brien and Magnier know he wouldn't get near Frankel in the summer Group 1 races which is the only reason he is going to run in the St Leger. Frankel will be remembered as the best horse we have seen, OFFICIALLY.
Frankel has superior fractional speed which is why he wins so impressively. However Sea The Stars was not a "miler" but recorded a faster mile time in this 2000 guineas than Frankel has ever run. 1m 35s on the newmarket rowley mile described as good to firm. Frankel was virtually flat out the whole way in his 2000 guineas but still didn't get close to the course record.
course records are achieved in special circumstances and horses must produce each furlong at about same speed, in Frankel's case the guineas as you can see he wasted much of his energy in the first 6 furlongs and the in last 1-2 furlongs he started to idle because there was no horse nearby to push him. As proof look at all the horses which are spread for 1 furlong behind him.
Won it well enough but far from a vintage Guineas if you look at what the beaten horses did afterwards. But can only beat what's put in front of it so there you go.
Easy to say. It was also easy for M J Kinane to say, when asked if STS would beat Frankel over a mile,"that would be very, very difficult!" In other words...NO.
Both are great horses but this is my verdict > See the Stars was a very versatile racehorse he won at multiple distances and traveled abroad racing on different tracks although he was never pushed to win by big margins like Frankel was ....Frankel although a very good horse he could be considered a 'one trick pony' as he only ever raced in England mostly on the same tracks against the same horses. also noted is that See the Stars broke a course record Frankel did not break any course records. See the Stars 2000 Guineas win and Juddmonte win were both quicker times than Frankel's 2000 Guineas win and Juddmonte win. so despite all the hype about Frankel in my opinion See the Stars was a better horse.
MrPapaBill. That may be true now. When Dan Patch was around, Standardbreds were more famous. Throughbred racing is nothing like it used to be. When Dan Patch was around, there was not the interest in Football and Golf there is today. Times have changed. You mention popularity. Well, Red Rum, Crisp and Desert Orchid would probably be better known internationally than Sea Bird or Sea the Stars. The world of racing is not just Britain. Harness racing is popular internationally, not in Europe.
This looks a strong guineas. Big names right through the field.No way to know how good sts was. He was clever and seemed to know how to just do enough to win. No doubt he is one of the best
I was at Newmarket for STS's 2000 and for Frankel's. Trust me, Frankel is in a different class to STS over a mile. And having seen Frankel win the Juddmonte in an absolute hack canter he would beat STS over a mile and a quarter too. Mile and a half? Don't know yet, but Frankel is the better horse overall, as every offical handicapper, and you own eyes, will tell you.
The best horses don't run in The St Leger. Camelot is going there to avoid Frankel and everyone knows it. Of course you might be right and Timeform, The BHA, The Racing Post and every international handicapper might be wrong. In which case you are a genius. Well done.
I've followed racing since I went to my first meeting at Ascot Heath in 1953. It's also years since I left the UK. Watching this video is a depressing reminder of how appalling J McGrath is as a commentator. Within the last furlong he says that Sea The Stars is coming home "slightly the better" when STS is two lengths ahead and the winning post appears in shot within a second. Why has no one the guts to say that for years McGrath has been an unmitigated disaster?
he is as nearly as bad as thommo with his "its a phooooto" when clearly one horse has won by half a length or "its neck and neck" when again one horse has pulled 5 lengths clear. sometimes i think they are watching a different race from the rest of us. on a similar subject i phoned for commentry on the wokingham handicap at royal ascot. i backed high standing but the commentator said he might just have won. then when i see it on tv the horse wins by a good half length.
Ton of respect for what this horse did. When you breeze through 6 of the biggest G1 races in Europe at distances from 8f to 12f the way STS did, it's no fluke.
To one of the all time great trainers, Mr Jon Oxx. He announced his retirement at the end of the season.
What a gent, what a trainer and what a lovely lovely man.
Mr Oxx, I wish you the best of luck what I hope is a long and healthy and happy retirement.
Sea the stars was the best I've seen, masterly handled by you.
Well done.
Thing that amazes me with this is how he has the ability to win over 1m. He was nowhere near optimum trip here, but had the pace to track the leaders and use the stamina to get him home.
The way he improved up in trip was spectacular.
Nice field. That was a strong run from Delegator. Sea The Stars. All class ALL the time. 1m, 1m2, 1m4. All Class.
This arguably makes STS champion miler of the year along with all his other accolades.
Simply the best
Pure class. Made some very good horses look ordinary. And bred to win the derby, fancy having an Arc winner for a mum !
Best horse I have seen in a long long time. Won 6 group one's so is the best. I was lucky to see him this day and backed him to win! Love this horse. His win in the arc proved everything!
just watching that again, he won that easier than I thought
"the best looking horse for me sea the stars. I dunno is he ready for today"
The greatest we have seen
The time over the mile suggested something different, what he did over further was different class. Frankel was a beast over a mile but up in trip not in this fella's league. His stride length was like comparing Usain Bolt to Carl Lewis, both class but up in trip no contest.
The GOAT
He won this race in 1:35:80. That is a MONSTER time for a mile on grass. To put it into perspective, the breeders cup mile on DIRT that year was won in 1:35:30. Normally the dirt miles in good weather are approx 4 seconds faster than a grass mile in Europe in good weather. Also, Frankel won 2 years later on identical ground on this exact track by 6 lengths in 1:37:90. So you can pretty much say that if Sea the Stars was in this race, Frankel would have been 6 lengths clear of the field, but Sea the Stars would have been 6 lengths clear of Frankel .
Just to note, He pretty much matched, got close to or beat the track records in nearly every race he ran.
His arc was only 1.5 seconds outside the fastest time ever, and he was being eased down at the end.
Frankel is rated 147, StS 134, Yet StS always ran very close to race record times, whereas Frankel only got very close to a race record once in 14 starts... I have no clue where this 147 comes from, it's way too high.
If you're breaking or squalling track records, and are still only getting 133-134, then that makes it impossible to get above 140. Frankel got above 145 without beating any track records, StS couldn't get above 135 and was recording some of the fastest race time's in history every time he ran. For StS to have gotten 147 he would have had to break world records for speed in almost every race he ran. Timeform is a mess.
Black Caviar won 25 races in a row, and was only rated 136, Frankel won 14/14 in some pretty decent times, and get's the highest rating of all time?
nonsense.sea the stars barely won this race and a bunch of other horses were nearby him at the finish.this means he was just a little bit better than this field.in frankel's race he strung them out.
@@twalibrahat3209 Frankel won by distances because there was nothing to bt people forget he bt Canford cliffs but he was getting weight due to age he bt cirrus des aigles and St Nicholas Abbey over 1m2 they were best at 1m4 and on the decline when he raced them rest he bt were ordinary sea the stars bt top horses every race 6 classic winners 3 breeders cup winners Arlington million winner all multiple g1 winners yes he never won by far cause he wasn't a flashy horse he played with his opponents. And remember he won 6 g1s in 3 countries over 3 different distances all in 6 months no horse has ever done that what recordsdoes Frankel have apart from being overrated
I only wish that we could one day do a virtual race meeting, with sea the stars, frankel, delegator, master craftsman, st nicholas abbey, rip van winkel and all the other greats to have a head to head, my god how epic would hat be?
Sea The Stars winning time 1:35.88? Frankel winning time 1:37.8? Two different types of racing but you have to say Frankel would've set it up nicely for Sea The Stars to win.
Frankel had no competition and ran into a headwind
Well said
Given all of the success that STS had as a 3yr.old, I don't blame the owners for retiring him. But I for one would have certainly loved to have seen STS race again as a 4yr.old. Same with Mastercraftsman.
I backed 'Sea The Stars' on this race. The best flat racehorse I have ever seen...
Todavia por hacer.¡¡¡Que fantastico SEA THE STARS!!!
Me alegro mucho por KINANE
Good win. Someone says Dancing Brave was better. None of these is in the same class as the great Zenyatta. She is truly the "horse of the century". She is making the same headlines that Dan Patch did in the last century. Expect the Hollywood movie soon.
STS won better races over a wider range of distances than Frankel , plus his guineas time was much faster than Frankel's , considering how easy he crossed the line while Frankel was flat out. And STS's time was a course record in the Juddmonte International , again faster than Frankel's time in the same race. And to add an Arc , Derby, Eclipse and Irish champion to the list is the ultimate racing CV and all done in the space of 6 months. We mightn't see likes again . STS & Frankel are arguably the best two horses we have seen, but Frankel was the ultimate miler while STS was the ultimate racehorse
You going off times tells me everything I need to know about your knowledge of racing , different days different conditions different ground!
+contee12345 , Thats a fair stupid response , ground was actually the same (conditions & days ???) . I now know all i need to know about your knowledge , LOL !!!!!!!!!
+Curraghrun haha the ground was the same says who you ? And are you saying the weather is the same every guineas day?
+Curraghrun and you clearly don't watch must racing as you would of known frankel was running into a strong headwind , sts wasn't , argument over except it and watch more racing as you clearly need too!
I suggest you watch more racing yourself ,but i suspect it won't help people like you as your knowledge is so limited ..
I backed Sea The Stars and Amour Propre in a double that day.
I'm a huge fan of thoroughbred racing and I often bet on races at my local OTB. But I admit, I usually just keep up with North American horses. But recently I have started watching Sea The Stars, and this horse just accelerates at will. Gio Ponti, arguably, is the best turf horse in North America, but Sea The Stars imo would have no trouble at all putting Gio Ponti away. And Gio Ponti is no slouch.
Excelente Michael Kinane.
one of the best race horses ever an absolutle legend in a unique class of its own that only the best would ever have a chance of reaching the levels of quality this horse had, i was so sorry to see it go to stud i hope many good things come from this horse n it could be more history in the making
agreed,but having seen the derby trials i remain hopeful though it looks a good derby this year
i know times aren't all that but on the same ground, good to firm, he's nearly a second and a half quicker that frankel.... you've got to think that if they were both in this race, and kinane hadn't used the horse up trying to follow frankel's crazy early pace that he'd have got to the 'freak' on the rising ground and been in front on the line. don't get me wrong frankel's a great horse, but in my opinion this fella is something else. so clever he always did just what was required and no more..
I think so too but i do love frankel lol
Goodness me, went off at 8/1- if only we knew what we know now.
@GBeret83 At least they've raced Zenyatta 19 times... This is what I mean about feeling let down when these great horses race only 9 times and then we don't see them again.
@richfairclough123 - well said
MrPapaBill. Dan Patch was a racehorse. He was probably more famous in his time than STS is now. You have to remember that Standardbred racing was more popular than Thoroughbred racing at the time. Just because Standardbred racing is not big in Europe doesn't mean it is not important.
Hambletonian, Messenger, Greyhound and Dan Patch were the famous racehorses of the past. They were known all over the world at the time. Sea Bird is only known in Europe. Zenyatta is also known worldwide.
I think he posted that before Frankel thumped that guineas field the other week ha !!
high-class colt,im on him at 10/1 for the derby,will be even better over middle-distances
This comment aged well. And it slipped under the radar.. Lol
Hehe when they still talked about Sea the Stars' own pedigree.. now you look for horses who have been sired by him.
John Oxx said he had the speed to win from 6f to 1m 4f
I always liked Jim McGrath amidst the criticism, but he had money on Delegator here.
Frankel has never been pushed to his limits but wins by seven lengths. STS was never pushed to him limits but won by half a length. Think about it.
Why did she retire as a 3 year old?
One of the reasons they go up in trip is that they are not fast enough to win over the shorter distances! To answer your question . He could go up in trip and win, but so what? You might as well ask why STS or Gallileo didn't run in the Gold Cup. Camelot is a very good horse but O'Brien and Magnier know he wouldn't get near Frankel in the summer Group 1 races which is the only reason he is going to run in the St Leger. Frankel will be remembered as the best horse we have seen, OFFICIALLY.
Frankel has superior fractional speed which is why he wins so impressively. However Sea The Stars was not a "miler" but recorded a faster mile time in this 2000 guineas than Frankel has ever run. 1m 35s on the newmarket rowley mile described as good to firm. Frankel was virtually flat out the whole way in his 2000 guineas but still didn't get close to the course record.
course records are achieved in special circumstances and horses must produce each furlong at about same speed, in Frankel's case the guineas as you can see he wasted much of his energy in the first 6 furlongs and the in last 1-2 furlongs he started to idle because there was no horse nearby to push him. As proof look at all the horses which are spread for 1 furlong behind him.
I thought that myself when i saw THAT price..Hindsight ehh :)
Won it well enough but far from a vintage Guineas if you look at what the beaten horses did afterwards. But can only beat what's put in front of it so there you go.
correct delegator average at best
Just look at frankels useless
Dubai gold and native Khan handicappers
@OscarDanDan76 is not was, what an amazing race horse, now he is just an amazing horse :) still brilliant and making history at stud :)
Easy to say. It was also easy for M J Kinane to say, when asked if STS would beat Frankel over a mile,"that would be very, very difficult!" In other words...NO.
See the Stars v Frankel ?
Both are great horses but this is my verdict > See the Stars was a very versatile racehorse he won at multiple distances and traveled abroad racing on different tracks although he was never pushed to win by big margins like Frankel was ....Frankel although a very good horse he could be considered a 'one trick pony' as he only ever raced in England mostly on the same tracks against the same horses. also noted is that See the Stars broke a course record Frankel did not break any course records. See the Stars 2000 Guineas win and Juddmonte win were both quicker times than Frankel's 2000 Guineas win and Juddmonte win. so despite all the hype about Frankel in my opinion See the Stars was a better horse.
Rock of Gibraltar vs ???
kinane didnt win the arc in 2003. He won it 3 times, 1989, 1999 and 2009...
If he is so great, how come he went out 8/1?
MrPapaBill. That may be true now. When Dan Patch was around, Standardbreds were more famous. Throughbred racing is nothing like it used to be. When Dan Patch was around, there was not the interest in Football and Golf there is today. Times have changed.
You mention popularity. Well, Red Rum, Crisp and Desert Orchid would probably be better known internationally than Sea Bird or Sea the Stars. The world of racing is not just Britain. Harness racing is popular internationally, not in Europe.
@forsoup
Backed him big.at 9-1 only on the expense of mug jamie spencer..as he was riding the Favourite.(delegator)..
MyPapaBill is right simply as. Shush..
This looks a strong guineas. Big names right through the field.No way to know how good sts was. He was clever and seemed to know how to just do enough to win. No doubt he is one of the best
I was at Newmarket for STS's 2000 and for Frankel's. Trust me, Frankel is in a different class to STS over a mile. And having seen Frankel win the Juddmonte in an absolute hack canter he would beat STS over a mile and a quarter too. Mile and a half? Don't know yet, but Frankel is the better horse overall, as every offical handicapper, and you own eyes, will tell you.
He's right you know....
The best horses don't run in The St Leger. Camelot is going there to avoid Frankel and everyone knows it. Of course you might be right and Timeform, The BHA, The Racing Post and every international handicapper might be wrong. In which case you are a genius. Well done.
Ok lay off the peace pipe bud.. was just askin
I've followed racing since I went to my first meeting at Ascot Heath in 1953. It's also years since I left the UK. Watching this video is a depressing reminder of how appalling J McGrath is as a commentator. Within the last furlong he says that Sea The Stars is coming home "slightly the better" when STS is two lengths ahead and the winning post appears in shot within a second. Why has no one the guts to say that for years McGrath has been an unmitigated disaster?
is that some sort of sick joke?! Did henry the navigator win the derby or eclipse? henry would have been left 3-4 lengths behind sea the stars
not at a mile and the rock beats them all
flymetothestars couldnt fly to the corner shop sea the stars foals are not that good anymore just check the history in the past 2 months
he is as nearly as bad as thommo with his "its a phooooto" when clearly one horse has won by half a length or "its neck and neck" when again one horse has pulled 5 lengths clear.
sometimes i think they are watching a different race from the rest of us.
on a similar subject i phoned for commentry on the wokingham handicap at royal ascot. i backed high standing but the commentator said he might just have won. then when i see it on tv the horse wins by a good half length.