Little did I think, during my college years, that I would live to see the Brush Type 4 (class 47 today, for the benefit of younger viewers) - the very latest thing then on the railway scene - become a vintage icon. Will today's youngsters drool over Pendolinos and Azumas in years to come? Cheers, Darren.
@@schoolshorts I doubt they will Tim, the heritage diesels, the class 47s and 40s have a visceral life about them, with a million little sounds creating a symphony of noise which you come to know like old friends. Obviously the same goes for steam locos too. I lived next to the mainline in Leyland during the seventies and eighties and could tell the exact loco without seeing it after a while! Really enjoying your latest travelogue type videos, keep up the interesting work, all the best from sunny Lancashire Darren (PS the type 4s including the peaks were always my favourite sounding locos)
@@schoolshorts History suggests they will! I love Pendos and Azumas now anyway - they look like future trains should look and after all we are living in the future... though of course that's subject to the complexities of personal perspective! Why can't anything be simple!
Hi, Well done for making this video it shows that as the information when you book a trip shows the good old steam engines do not always pass the Railtrack rules or like a lot of us are getting old I was lucky as my EUR175 Railtour went ahead as planed with Mayflower at the head and a very nice Westcoast 47 at it tail and a great day was had by all, we all just have to be grateful to all the wonderful people who keep them running for us and I am sure they were just as disappointed as you wanting to watch them were. Cheers Robert..
Glad that Mayflower's trip went ahead successfully - most of them do! - and, like yourself, I'm filled with admiration for the many people who put in unimaginable hours of work to make these things happen. Best wishes.
Bearing in mind, those sat on the train can’t see the loco at all so the journey is no different no matter what pulls it. They only see the loco at start and end of journey and the rail tours do advertise ant steam loco may be substituted for operational reasons so I doubt any refunds would be due. Those that do the full tour only get stem for part of the journey anyway, they usually start off electric or diesel and end the same way. Can’t beat a 47 the railways rescue workhorse that has pulled many a service electric set over the S&C when WCML blocked for many a year. Want a steam hauled dining experience use heritage railways, the East Lancs railway regularly run them and Flying Scotsman ran there after the last rebuild firstly in wartime black then in full livery. It cost £25 for the service journey then shortly afterwards it was on TV with the folk with more money than sense paying hundreds of pounds to ride behind her.
Back in the 1980s I took a small group of Scottish prep-school boys from Carlisle to Hereford, steam-hauled from Crewe. I got some wonderful writing afterwards about the magical clouds of steam floating past the carriage windows - clearly, these boys (at 12 and 13, far too young to have experienced the steam age) found something inspiring in the experience despite not being able to see the locomotive (a Black Five as I recall) itself during the ride. For many young people who have only ever experienced a steam trip on a 25 mph restricted preserved line, it can be quite a revelation to find themselves travelling at 75 behind a machine that's almost a hundred years old. As for the cost of luxury trips and fine on-board dining - well, it's way beyond my means but - if I ever come into the money - I'll certainly give it a go! Best wishes to you.
We did the Scarborough Spa express a couple of weeks later in this set of coaches and 47s. But at York they were replaced with British India lines. Great day out and fantastic meals.🥳😁
47848 does look very shiny, but I expect it'll be looking muddy brown like most WCR power before long. Nice filling-in-time and scene setting with the TPX trains.
For those of us old enough to remember the heydays of British Railways, West Coast Railways - even at their worst - will always be a great improvement. Thanks Andrei - best wishes.
Disappointment in Appleby too. By then I knew it was not to be, and was wondering why WCRC had sent Leander "down south" when they could perhaps have delayed its departure and used it for the CME first. I decided to visit the diesels and was surprised that they made a stop in Appleby. Perhaps it became an ice cream stop rather than a water stop, to appease the disappointed passengers. I too was disappointed. I'd purchased a gimbal and decided to give it a go. It turned out that my hands are steadier than the gimbal and my camera panning is infinitely better. It's back in its box, now looking for a new owner that has lower expectations.
Lucky you - my elderly hands are far too shaky these days to take video footage without a tripod - and even a tripod can be affected by wind or by the vibrations from a passing train.
Sometimes I worry that our old steam engines are being pressed too hard with more failures likely as a result. There must be a limit to what can be expected of them even with good maintenance.
Flying Scotsman failed in Carlisle just a month ago - but it was the same problem as with Scots Guardsman - modern automatic warning systems - the actual locomotive was perfectly capable of running and hauling its train, but prevented from doing so by 21st-century "Health and Safety" regulations.
It's an interesting point. Several years ago I was badly delayed on a scheduled Scotrail service to Oban because somebody had tried to get a Black Five up Glencruitten Bank with a train that was beyond its ability. I missed my ferry to Mull and had to spend the night in Oban where, luckily, I have friends. I was so angry that I would have supported a move to ban steam from the main line completely. I did simmer down eventually but I still have no patience with people who think the heritage industry should be subject to different rules from the rest of the railway.
@@davebarclay4429 You can almost be certain that steam trains, even with diesels attached at the rear to assist with any mishap or breakdown, will be stopped from using main lines for one of the very reasons you mention at the beginning of your comment. Regular commuters going to work or travelling for legitimate reasons have the right to expect their train is not held up by some steam loco struggling along on wet rails, or stalling on an incline, due to insufficient power being supplied for the trip. It has got beyond a joke these days. As for health and safety on these heritage trains, the heritage "industry" needs to have a look at some of their own "enthusiasts" travelling on these trains, who hang out of carriage windows, or even open doors at times to take photos or videos. Highly illegal. And the behaviour of some of these enthusiasts in general is abnoxious and rude, they think they can do as they wish on board, and ruin what would have been a good say out for families who paid good money to go on these trips s well. And if anyone wants to reject what I am saying about these so called enthusiasts make a call to British Rail Police and ask how many complaints they get about behaviour on some, (not all to be fair), heritage train trips.
I heard about the mishap, so glad I decided to go down the Cumbrian Coast watching the 37s instead. All those people who paid top dollar for a steam-hauled train - do they get a partial refund?
Carlisle still gets more steam trains than anywhere else in Britain (unless you count the daily service from Fort William!). The occasional disappointment is inevitable.
@@schoolshorts If the AWS failed prior to entering service, Rule Book Module TW5 Clause 5.1. would apply. If isolating the AWS when in service, it will automatically isolate the TPWS.
Just an observation - the passengers in the coaches with dining facilities can't have a great view with those table-lamps set up against the window. On the other hand, maybe they are there for the culinary delights being offered and not the lineside attractions!
On the very rare occasions that I've travelled first-class I've never found the lamps an obstruction. As to the culinary delights - I'm frequently told by passengers dining on these trains (way beyond my income, I'm afraid) that the catering and service are superb.
@@schoolshorts Thanks, Tim. That was just the impression I got from looking at the carriages as they left Carlisle staion platform. So my second thought was reasonably accurate then.
Quite so - second warning system failure in a month (Flying Scotsman 24th July) - in each case the locomotive was perfectly capable of hauling the train, but prevented by 21st-century "Health and Safety" regulations. For how many decades did these engines haul high-speed expresses in perfect safety without these devices?
At least 10 decades! To be bound by these blasted regulations as if they were Holy Writ is disgraceful and a childish shoving of responsibility off ones own shoulders!
The primary purpose of the railway is get people and goods from point A to point B as quickly, safely and reliably as possible. It is not there for the amusement of those who wish to indulge their nostalgia and there have been occasions when the operators of steam locomotives have behaved irresponsibly to an extent which beggars belief. (Wooton Bassett springs to mind). Anything which runs on the main line must be capable of complying with modern safety requirements, most obviously signalling, otherwise it shouldn't run. To compare the modern railway with the situation 10 decades ago and dismiss modern safety standards as "blasted regulations" is, with all due respect, silly.
Still a great video Tim, those 47s are priceless ! Thanks
Little did I think, during my college years, that I would live to see the Brush Type 4 (class 47 today, for the benefit of younger viewers) - the very latest thing then on the railway scene - become a vintage icon. Will today's youngsters drool over Pendolinos and Azumas in years to come?
Cheers, Darren.
@@schoolshorts I doubt they will Tim, the heritage diesels, the class 47s and 40s have a visceral life about them, with a million little sounds creating a symphony of noise which you come to know like old friends. Obviously the same goes for steam locos too. I lived next to the mainline in Leyland during the seventies and eighties and could tell the exact loco without seeing it after a while!
Really enjoying your latest travelogue type videos, keep up the interesting work, all the best from sunny Lancashire
Darren (PS the type 4s including the peaks were always my favourite sounding locos)
@@schoolshorts History suggests they will! I love Pendos and Azumas now anyway - they look like future trains should look and after all we are living in the future... though of course that's subject to the complexities of personal perspective! Why can't anything be simple!
Hi,
Well done for making this video it shows that as the information when you book a trip shows the good old steam engines do not always pass the Railtrack rules or like a lot of us are getting old I was lucky as my EUR175 Railtour went ahead as planed with Mayflower at the head and a very nice Westcoast 47 at it tail and a great day was had by all, we all just have to be grateful to all the wonderful people who keep them running for us and I am sure they were just as disappointed as you wanting to watch them were.
Cheers Robert..
Glad that Mayflower's trip went ahead successfully - most of them do! - and, like yourself, I'm filled with admiration for the many people who put in unimaginable hours of work to make these things happen. Best wishes.
Bearing in mind, those sat on the train can’t see the loco at all so the journey is no different no matter what pulls it. They only see the loco at start and end of journey and the rail tours do advertise ant steam loco may be substituted for operational reasons so I doubt any refunds would be due.
Those that do the full tour only get stem for part of the journey anyway, they usually start off electric or diesel and end the same way.
Can’t beat a 47 the railways rescue workhorse that has pulled many a service electric set over the S&C when WCML blocked for many a year.
Want a steam hauled dining experience use heritage railways, the East Lancs railway regularly run them and Flying Scotsman ran there after the last rebuild firstly in wartime black then in full livery.
It cost £25 for the service journey then shortly afterwards it was on TV with the folk with more money than sense paying hundreds of pounds to ride behind her.
Back in the 1980s I took a small group of Scottish prep-school boys from Carlisle to Hereford, steam-hauled from Crewe. I got some wonderful writing afterwards about the magical clouds of steam floating past the carriage windows - clearly, these boys (at 12 and 13, far too young to have experienced the steam age) found something inspiring in the experience despite not being able to see the locomotive (a Black Five as I recall) itself during the ride. For many young people who have only ever experienced a steam trip on a 25 mph restricted preserved line, it can be quite a revelation to find themselves travelling at 75 behind a machine that's almost a hundred years old.
As for the cost of luxury trips and fine on-board dining - well, it's way beyond my means but - if I ever come into the money - I'll certainly give it a go!
Best wishes to you.
We did the Scarborough Spa express a couple of weeks later in this set of coaches and 47s. But at York they were replaced with British India lines. Great day out and fantastic meals.🥳😁
Glad that you had a good day - best wishes.
That rake of maroon/pullman coaches look just fabulous - a loud shout out to the crew that did the paint and polish on those!
Bravo!!!
47848 does look very shiny, but I expect it'll be looking muddy brown like most WCR power before long. Nice filling-in-time and scene setting with the TPX trains.
For those of us old enough to remember the heydays of British Railways, West Coast Railways - even at their worst - will always be a great improvement.
Thanks Andrei - best wishes.
Great video!
Glad you enjoyed it - best wishes.
It still a great video,even without the steam one mate!
We have to make the most of whatever turns up!
I look forward to the time when you can do the S&C behind a battery electric or hydrogen powered loco. Probably not everybody's cup of tea, I grant
Inevitable, I suppose. It's what our American cousins would call "progress"! Doubt if I'll be around to see it, though.
Disappointment in Appleby too. By then I knew it was not to be, and was wondering why WCRC had sent Leander "down south" when they could perhaps have delayed its departure and used it for the CME first. I decided to visit the diesels and was surprised that they made a stop in Appleby. Perhaps it became an ice cream stop rather than a water stop, to appease the disappointed passengers. I too was disappointed. I'd purchased a gimbal and decided to give it a go. It turned out that my hands are steadier than the gimbal and my camera panning is infinitely better. It's back in its box, now looking for a new owner that has lower expectations.
Lucky you - my elderly hands are far too shaky these days to take video footage without a tripod - and even a tripod can be affected by wind or by the vibrations from a passing train.
Sometimes I worry that our old steam engines are being pressed too hard with more failures likely as a result. There must be a limit to what can be expected of them even with good maintenance.
Flying Scotsman failed in Carlisle just a month ago - but it was the same problem as with Scots Guardsman - modern automatic warning systems - the actual locomotive was perfectly capable of running and hauling its train, but prevented from doing so by 21st-century "Health and Safety" regulations.
It's an interesting point. Several years ago I was badly delayed on a scheduled Scotrail service to Oban because somebody had tried to get a Black Five up Glencruitten Bank with a train that was beyond its ability. I missed my ferry to Mull and had to spend the night in Oban where, luckily, I have friends. I was so angry that I would have supported a move to ban steam from the main line completely. I did simmer down eventually but I still have no patience with people who think the heritage industry should be subject to different rules from the rest of the railway.
@@schoolshorts Reassuring to hear that!
Tim Geaney The fact it fails far more often on steam locos than more modern traction says a lot, though.
@@davebarclay4429 You can almost be certain that steam trains, even with diesels attached at the rear to assist with any mishap or breakdown, will be stopped from using main lines for one of the very reasons you mention at the beginning of your comment. Regular commuters going to work or travelling for legitimate reasons have the right to expect their train is not held up by some steam loco struggling along on wet rails, or stalling on an incline, due to insufficient power being supplied for the trip. It has got beyond a joke these days. As for health and safety on these heritage trains, the heritage "industry" needs to have a look at some of their own "enthusiasts" travelling on these trains, who hang out of carriage windows, or even open doors at times to take photos or videos. Highly illegal. And the behaviour of some of these enthusiasts in general is abnoxious and rude, they think they can do as they wish on board, and ruin what would have been a good say out for families who paid good money to go on these trips s well. And if anyone wants to reject what I am saying about these so called enthusiasts make a call to British Rail Police and ask how many complaints they get about behaviour on some, (not all to be fair), heritage train trips.
I heard about the mishap, so glad I decided to go down the Cumbrian Coast watching the 37s instead. All those people who paid top dollar for a steam-hauled train - do they get a partial refund?
The ones I spoke to on Carlisle station were being very philosophical about it and seemed to be enjoying their day regardless.
Good video I'm pleased I didn't go in end yo Carlisle as its gone down hill for good stuff
Carlisle still gets more steam trains than anywhere else in Britain (unless you count the daily service from Fort William!). The occasional disappointment is inevitable.
@@schoolshorts very true I have seen 3 steam there in the last month including one I had been after for ages 34046 just last week
Wonder what the excuse was to substitute the class 47s? Good video still
AWS failure on the steam loco.
@@schoolshorts If the AWS failed prior to entering service, Rule Book Module TW5 Clause 5.1. would apply. If isolating the AWS when in service, it will automatically isolate the TPWS.
One of those days Tim, nevertheless got some decent shots. Cheers.
Win some, lose some, eh?
@@schoolshorts true.
West Coast always present their rolling stock well, even if their is a diesel in charge.
Yes - these coaches would rarely have been so shiny clean in BR days.
What was the reason for the steam loco not turning up?
AWS failure, I believe.
Just an observation - the passengers in the coaches with dining facilities can't have a great view with those table-lamps set up against the window. On the other hand, maybe they are there for the culinary delights being offered and not the lineside attractions!
On the very rare occasions that I've travelled first-class I've never found the lamps an obstruction. As to the culinary delights - I'm frequently told by passengers dining on these trains (way beyond my income, I'm afraid) that the catering and service are superb.
@@schoolshorts Thanks, Tim. That was just the impression I got from looking at the carriages as they left Carlisle staion platform. So my second thought was reasonably accurate then.
Don 't blame the steam engine - blame the computer system and those that slavishly get ruled by it!
Quite so - second warning system failure in a month (Flying Scotsman 24th July) - in each case the locomotive was perfectly capable of hauling the train, but prevented by 21st-century "Health and Safety" regulations. For how many decades did these engines haul high-speed expresses in perfect safety without these devices?
At least 10 decades! To be bound by these blasted regulations as if they were Holy Writ is disgraceful and a childish shoving of responsibility off ones own shoulders!
The primary purpose of the railway is get people and goods from point A to point B as quickly, safely and reliably as possible. It is not there for the amusement of those who wish to indulge their nostalgia and there have been occasions when the operators of steam locomotives have behaved irresponsibly to an extent which beggars belief. (Wooton Bassett springs to mind). Anything which runs on the main line must be capable of complying with modern safety requirements, most obviously signalling, otherwise it shouldn't run. To compare the modern railway with the situation 10 decades ago and dismiss modern safety standards as "blasted regulations" is, with all due respect, silly.
It's also silly to fail a perfectly sound machine because of a failure on associated non-essential software!
@@CrossfellRailwayVideos "10 decades" ??
Great video!
Thanks Timbo - best wishes.