I guess the Doctor was sick of all the crap the Daleks had done over the years and opted to destroy them /or attempt to since the Daleks somehow survived to fight the Time War/ as he saw no other way to stop the Daleks from being a threat to the universe.
I love how if you look closely, just before the mother-ship is destroyed you can see a small spec falling away, which assumedly is meant to be Davros' escape pod.
This is why McCoy is my favourite classic era Doctor. He was dark, sly, cunning and conniving and merciless towards his enemies. His showdown with Davros is the best ever confrontation between a Doctor and Davros. Unlimited rice pudding FTW!!!
seven was arguably one of the most dangerous doctors to tangle with, he had plans within his plans, no one could figure out what he was going to do until it was too late.
I like how he admits to imprisoning the primordial evil Fenris using a game of chess, one that still left Fenris obsessed over the solution even after it escaped.
7 was dangerous but he didn't make his later incarnations ashamed of his existence, so imagine how much more lethal 9 must have been. And I'm referring to John Hurt, the true 9th Doctor, not Christopher Ecclestone who is the 10th. 7 wouldn't have survived the Time War because he's a strategist, not a warrior. 9 was both, so if his strategies didn't work, he'd just fight his way out.
@@tomnorton4277 agreed. It’s just a shame we don’t get too see that side of the Doctor very often. The War Doctor was tired and observing before making his decision in his one on-screen appearance. Seven here is one of the few times where we really see the Doctor mean business and be more or less in control of the situation from the start. It would, perhaps be boring if he was in that position all the time- though it would be true to the character. It’s a shame that it’s so rare we see him at this level of power in the revived series and that it took so long for him to get there in the classic. I think we were really robbed of something brilliant when the classic series got cancelled. As for Nine… that could have been even better- but it’s not like the revived series to deliver on that, sadly.
Any time I see a "Darkest Doctor" debate on videos and people go on about Capaldi or Tenant etc, I just think back to Season 25-26 of the classics. This is a Doctor who started the episode knowing exactly what he was going to do, even going as far as debating the moral of his plan over a cup of coffee with a stranger before deciding to pull the trigger anyway - initiating (attempted) racial genocide vs the Daleks for the good of the universe in one of the biggest time-war instigating moves in Whostory... And this is just one footnote in the 7th Doctors long-ass book of 'dark shit I've done. If you find yourself debating who is the darkest Doctor, you clearly haven't watched the chess-master at work, be it the TV show, novels, or Big Finish. I suggest you get started as soon as possible because he's effin' glorious when he gets going.
The Master is a decent one for sure. Another one I like is "Night Thoughts" due to being an atmospheric (borderline horror) story. There are also some of the pre-BigFinish audios where McCoy and Sophie played the Doctor and Ace but had to refrain from using those names to avoid copyright, all for fans of the show who missed it when it entered the Twilight Years (cancellation). Do a search for "Punchline - Doctor Who audio play starring Sylvester McCoy" -- a fun story that starts light and bubbly before the threads start to unravel and reveal its true nature. Lastly, if you want a slice of awesomeness, search for "Doctor Who - Afterlife - Fear Me" and listen to what he has to say to someone begging him for mercy. Chilling.
Masterfully summed up. I always thought of Seven as a midlife crisis, where the Doctor's arrogance and superiority complex began to overtake his compassion. He was starting to become jaded at this point in his life, realizing that if you're a humanized Lovecraftian god then there's very little point in pretending to be one of the little people. It's a good thing that he was humbled by the Time War because everyone seems to forget just how dark he was becoming, even if it's never openly acknowledged on the show. I can definitely see Seven evolving into the Valeyard. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
@@lewisfraser4153 The thing is, lots of fans like to talk up 7 this way, but within seasons24-26 it really isn't that accurate. There are shades of this absolutely, but firstly the reason 7 acts this way in the first place is a response to doctors 1-6 since he felt that their whole routine of "show up out of nowhere, turn lives/society on it's head, leave and forget about long lasting consequences" was selfish and a way of shafting responsibility. So he proactively looks to clean up the messes made by not just himself but the previous Doctors as well (thus all the "The Doctor fought/encountered villain X before" that goes on in this era), this is quite plainly put across in Remembrance itself, is made far more clear in stories like The Curse of Fenric and so on as well. Next, you say there's no point in pretending to be one of the little people, but that's exactly what 7 does. That's part of the whole dynamic with Ace, he is pretending to be this homeless guy wandering around and bumping into things despite the fact that he has turned down the opportunity to be the Lord President of Gallifrey, has a home that doubles as a space/time machine, has no need for money in the first place *and* through his time machine has an incredible amount of potential power. Meanwhile he takes on Ace and manipulates/grooms her to be more like what he is (literally a Time Lord if we go by the "lost" S27 but even so just considering S24-26) whilst Ace herself actually is one of the "little people", is poor and genuinely homeless (sure she *could* go back to her shitty/abusive mum and no future life in Perivale but even ignoring how crappy that would be she did get uprooted against her will and has changed far too much to just slot back into Perivale even by Dragonfire alone - like Mel said, she has nowhere to go). Ace and 7 are both people trying to do what they think is genuinely right (as opposed to Doctors 1-6's "right") in spite of themselves, his actions lead to murders miseries and huge scale manipulations whilst she deals with violence at first and grows into the same pitfalls as 7 finds himself in. By trying to take genuine responsibility he falls into a rabbit hole and drags Ace down with him, she ultimately doesn't quite reach his level and he ultimately pulls it a little back because of her - thus Survival, where the Doctor doesn't intentionally run into the Master to kill him, tries to save him even, Ace doesn't turn into a murderous Cheetah person and does face up to her past, and both characters continue on as less dangerous, better versions of themselves, but crucially, still incredibly flawed and balancing the line of "trying to do the right thing" (which is also why I think that Survival accidently ended up being a fairly good "ending" in and of itself for this era). The VNAs would have 7 and Ace jump headfirst back into that rabbit hole I mentioned, although both would also find their ways back out of it again. The Big Finish media, the PDAs and so on are the real culprits when it comes to the 7th Doctor's characterisation. They focus on the worst qualities he has and exaggerate them, now I love a fair few of these stories but they do toe the line of out of character with the 7th Doctor (and frankly Ace too quite often). He really isn't quite "the chess master" that people paint him out to be. Finally, on how dark the Doctor overall was getting, people seem to forget that the Doctor was always this dark, the whole point of the original character was to be a mysterious, potentially dangerous figure towards the lead characters Ian and Barbara, who you could never fully trust. People also seem to forget the 9th Doctor lightly manipulating a 19 year old girl into ditching her family and life for him so he can enjoy her company and throw her life into extreme danger on a regular basis, or the 10th Doctor then dating that still only 20 year old girl, or the many times the Doctor goes all murder about something in the RTD era, or his king sized god complex, and so on. I wouldn't say the Doctor is ever anything but a dark, potentially dangerous figure, you can't fully trust.
Really think about what this scene means for a moment. The whole serial up to this point featured British Neo-Nazis running around the same stage as the Daleks, and the story is not subtle about drawing comparisons between the two groups. Then, in the last act of the story, the Doctor deliberately lets the Hand fall into the clutches of the Daleks, knowing this would happen. The Doctor is faced with a force of tyranny, oppression, one that has conquered and exterminated hundreds of worlds.... and he's not having it anymore. He annihilates Skaro, the capital and home world of the Dalek Empire, the kind of catastrophic destruction he is normally running around trying to avert. This is a Doctor who truly has no more forgiveness or restraint when it comes to the evils of the galaxy. This is a line, a scale few fictional heroes are ever allowed to cross, but for me that makes this the Doctor's shinning moment. This is my favorite thing he's ever done.
@@girlgarde I hate that some people get so precious about anti-fascism in the media nowadays. If the same story aired today you just know there'd be triggered incels whining about political bias. This was a hell of an episode and I loved its timely message.
That’s because NOTHING can destroy them indefinitely! Not even the Time War! If you’ve actually watched this episode, you’ll know that the Doctor has ruined their plans to give Skaro the same technology the Time Lords have - that’s why they have to resort to stealing it from the Time Lords in later episodes - and stopped the Dalek civil war that was happening on Earth by destroying all the Daleks involved in it. With no more Renegade or Imperial Daleks, the Dalek race combine and unite against the Doctor once again for future stories. But it looks like only people who actually watch the episode know that. 🤦♀️
Davros: DO NOT DO THIS I BEG OF YOU!!!! The doctor: nothing can stop it now!!! Davros: HAVE PITY ON ME!!!!!! what a complete change in Davros’ behaviour from determination and evil to defeatist and begging for pity
The moment the Time Lords told the fourth Doctor how dangerous the Daleks, would become, the wheels were put in motion for this, and subsequently the Time War. As for the Thals, they left Skaro long before this, as they said in Planet Of The Daleks, a third Doctor story.🤓
This wasn't the start of the time war. Skaro wasn't destroyed. Dalek Prime had tricked the Doctor & Davros into believing the planet in question was Skaro, instead it was a fake set to distract them both.
The movie had some very dumb stuff if it. Like Daleks even bothering to put the Master on trial for his crimes, when previously they’d had him work FOR them (Frontier In Space). It made no sense and just felt like some writer trying to do half assed fan service by throwing in the Dalek name.
Jedi Spartan 38 i just watched it a few days ago. No sign of that, apart from a few asides about how he thought he was the one in control. In any case, the Daleks don’t put people on trial. They’d just kill him.
This episode had great music! Also I do love those moments where the Doctor lets the bad guys think they’ve won right before revealing he had a plan all along.
"You all burned, all of you! Ten million ships on fire, the entire Dalek race wiped out in one second!" "YOU LIE!" "I watched it happen! I MADE it happen!" "YOU DESTROYED US!" "I had no choice."
JAKECOTCENTER Productions Well if we’re talking about what led to the final battle on Gallifrey then yeah this was it. But in terms of WHEN the Time War first started it began after Genesis of the Daleks.
@@alkaligalactic4254 That's not quite right. The Time War hadn't started yet at this point. This was just another step in the escalation towards it after Genesis and Resurrection of the Daleks.
Tomislive 33 in series 9 Davros says something like the Daleks have a concept of home, so from that we're supposed to assume they just took over a planet and made it look like the original skaro. It's still not made very clear
Going by the War of the Daleks novel it was actually the Movellan homeworld The Doctor destroyed which was made to look like Skaro by means of a convoluted plot regarding Davros. War of the Daleks is a terrible novel by the way but that's the only sort of explanation I think we're gonna get (and keep in mind this was pre-New Series so take that for what you will)
The short and sweet (barely explained) version is that Skaro was rebuilt. They never really delved too deep into it other than that, bar some other media (novels etc).
I loved McCoy and Ace. In my fantasy, they had three more years together, taking the show up to '92, then a break for a few years. This was followed by the TV movie in 1996 which successfully launched Paul McGann's four-year run on the show, an era where the Doctor spent most of his time in America and was a little more romantic, we leave things in 2000 on a big cliffhanger with the Time War breaking out and McGann about to regenerate. Fans wonder if the show will ever return, but it does in 2005. The rest is history, until 2013 when the show celebrates its 50th anniversary and ends with the 11th Doctor about to regenerate. Fans agree that the show ended on a high.
I guess it's the difference between 'stop this race before they hit the height of tyranny' or 'stop this race from ever coming into being'. I believe one of the reasons he gave in Genesis was the fact that the Daleks became a threat so massive that so many other races united to stop them, something that might not have happened without that galactic threat. Guess that says something about how ineffective the Movellans were as villains. That and it's rather easier to trick the enemy into destroying themselves through ineptitude over pulling the trigger personally. The chessmaster at work once again.
Davros had the nerve to beg the Doctor for mercy after all the trouble Davros and his Daleks have caused across the universe. What became of the Thals,the other inhabitants of Skaro whom the Doctor helped against those monsters on a few occassions?
Did you know that: Writer John Peel proposed a story called War of the Daleks, where Skaro would later be saved from destruction during the planned 27th season of the series? Too bad, Doctor Who got canceled in 1989.
I know that dsleks dont have emotions, but you can feel the panic when one of them hysterically ssys the omega device is returning. They all knew they were doomed from that moment on.
A lot of people say this is what started the Time War, and even more people say Genesis of The Daleks is what started it, but I'd actually posit The Daleks is what started the Time War. When we see Skaro in Genesis, they seem to believe Skaro is the only planet that harbors life in the universe, and it should be assumed that this belief continues into the time of The Daleks. If that's true, then the doctor and co arriving on Skaro for the first time is what taught the Daleks that there's life on other planets, life that needs to be exterminated. Without this inciting event, the Daleks likely would've never left Skaro, would've never become a big enough threat for the Time Lords to send the doctor to prevent their creation, and with that in mind the Time War would've likely never happened.
Technically it was The Chase because that was when the Daleks decided that they needed to destroy the Doctor before he could destroy them. They declared war on A Time Lord and that was when the Doctor realised that, with them having time travel, it was only the Time Lords who could stop them. Hence the need to go back to Skaro in Genesis to try and destroy them.
Eric Schmincke that and this only really increased tensions between the Daleks and Timelords. The actual trigger act for the war was the Dalek’s invasion of Phaidon
DOCTOR: “That ship has weapons capable of cracking this planet open like an egg”.... ACE replies DOCTOR: “Because even they, ruthless though they are would think twice before making such a radical alteration to the time line.” I thought at the time this seemed a bit of a lazy piece of writing, why is the good guy more ruthless than the Daleks? He taunts the Black Dalek to destruction having himself set events to make his own “radical alteration to the time line” of Skaro. This is later retconned into a planet called Antalin suggesting that the Daleks knew that the Omega device would go rogue on them and some how they had it programmed to destroy the decoy planet while Davros/the emperor didn’t know this. All in all the fact the Daleks don’t just crack open Earth like an egg while the Doctor happily thinks (or does) he destroys Skaro doesn’t sit right. Presumably he has no worries about killing the Thals? Also if Skaro wasn’t destroyed why did the Black Dalek give up?
@@thecaptain6845 the point is/was good guys destroy Skaro or at least think they do and there’s no concerns about altering timelines, radically or anything. Daleks don’t crack open Earth like an egg because doing so would make such a radical alteration to the timeline, presumably their later conquest of the planet would be redundant, as well as a great many other things. In a nutshell: Doctor = ruthless killer happy to totally exterminate one, possibly two races and destroy a planet, just to get one over on Davros (why didn’t he just remove the Hand Of Omega to another safe location?). Daleks = sentimental lackeys who just want the Hand Of Omega, yes they’ll exterminate anything that gets in their way but other than that it’s just a smash and grab for both factions. In fact the story wouldn’t have really worked without two factions.
@@thecaptain6845 You are totally missing the point, that the whole thing is very poor writing. As for anything else you’ve written like The Doctor wants to destroy Earth because its power mad WTF?
@@thecaptain6845 ok, so why didn’t The Doctor take The Hand Of Omega to another safe place? Why deliberately cause people to be killed as fall out of the skirmish. Why risk, even if the risk was slight that Davros wouldn’t just crack open the planet with the Morhership weaponry? How did he know Davros was on that ship rather than just Daleks and gamble on that? Obviously using Davros’ emotions against him, had the conversation been with emotionless Daleks the result would have been very different. It seems that a lot of events happened because The Doctor fancied stirring up the red ants and the black ants and didn’t care about anything other than his own goals. That’s bad writing, it’s totally out of character, bearing in mind the “Ruthless though they are” Daleks could have just obliterated the planet and sifted the debris or even just sterilised the area where they knew their prize would be. They didn’t, they almost try to just slip in unnoticed, it’s only the destruction of the transmat which caused the use of the shuttle, after the initial landing. The “entering Skaro time zone” line could be pivotal, in that the Hand could travel to the point in time when Skaro was destroyed by whatever means (other than by The Doctor using the Hand Of Omega) and just be there at that time, however I’m not sure how that event could then be broadcast as live but that would be the only way that The Doctor doesn’t come out of this as a mass murderer. Presumably there isn’t much life on Skaro, certainly in their small area of the planet, not much is known about the rest of the planet. Assuming there are no Dals, Kaleds or animal life within the known occupied area of the planet, there are Daleks and Thals and the whole of the rest of the planet for any other species which the Doctor is also responsible for their genocide. It’s great visually but badly out of character, therefore badly written. Even if the planet is only occupied by Daleks it is still wrong. The viewer at least knows that Skaro is occupied by Daleks and Thals. There isn’t a line saying that the planet is only occupied by Daleks so you have to realise that the Doctor decided that killing the Thals was a worth while thing to do in order to destroy the Daleks home planet which was last seen in Destiny Of The Daleks and was seemingly not particularly occupied by the Daleks as they had sent a small force to find and reactivate Davros and were certainly not in occupation of the planet.
@@EditedAF987 I dislike that explanation as it kinda diminishes the impact of this episode. But this was in 1997, before "Time War" became a blanket explanation for canonical inconsistencies
So the Doctor destroys Skaro. But what about the Thals? The race that has been fighting the Daleks/Kaleds for at least a thousand years? Or had the Thals left Skaro at this point?
So basically the doctors plan comes down to insulting the pride of davros into activating the omega device without test it first? Its a pretty poor end t9 an episode if that is the csse. It surely wouldnt of worked ona standard dalek.
This is the same race that during their rule of Earth and when about to core the planet didn't check for blockages or programmed the bomb to detonate at a certain depth instead of a timer causing their annihilation. This is perfectly in character for the Daleks
Idk if you’ve had the chance to watch much of the 7th doctors stories, but Davros compared to the Dalek’s had emotions, the Daleks hardly had any emotions. The 7th Doctor was like a chess player and playing mind games with Davros, we didn’t know he had sabotaged the device. Davros even though he’s a brilliant villain, he’s more vulnerable than a Dalek.
@@Alphamask978 Yeah ive seen a lot of who. I just think its a cheap ending, based on the fact that the Doctor thought a Dalek/Davros would jump the gun and not test it first.
This being the story so cheesy it was recently voted the second best Dalek story of all time by Doctor Who Magazine readers, and where the budget was so tiny that they had to build a life-sized Dalek spaceship and land it in a playground with a crane instead of using a model
![Resurrection of the Daleks New Effects [REUPLOAD]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XpvSGCc6l8k/mqdefault.jpg)
Fourth Doctor:Do I have the right?
Seventh Doctor: Blows the Daleks to shit with no remorse.
Another three incarnations' worth of conflict with the Daleks wore him down, it appears. He says he still has pity for Davros, though.
I guess the Doctor was sick of all the crap the Daleks had done over the years and opted to destroy them /or attempt to since the Daleks somehow survived to fight the Time War/ as he saw no other way to stop the Daleks from being a threat to the universe.
@@girlgarde Also fourth was less with killing off the Daleks, it was killing them off before they had done anything.
Doctor Decipher so he can blow up a whole planet but he can’t fire a rocket launcher at the supreme dalek
But the Seventh Doctor didn't pull the trigger, that was Davros. I think the Fourth Doctor was just uncomfortable with pulling the actual trigger.
I love how if you look closely, just before the mother-ship is destroyed you can see a small spec falling away, which assumedly is meant to be Davros' escape pod.
Yes, and you see the flaming debris from the mothership going in the same direction as the escape pod, it's a wonder it wasn't destroyed.
Foebane72 It pretty much did, according to the 8th Doctor story “Terror Firma”. Davros himself got pretty badly injured as a result of it too.
Yeah saw it too
Daleks are based on the Germans ( nazis )
@@studiodevelopers2467 That has nothing to do with his comment
Davros: "You-you played me, Doctor."
The Doctor: "No, Davros. You just played yourself. Congratulations."
This is why McCoy is my favourite classic era Doctor. He was dark, sly, cunning and conniving and merciless towards his enemies. His showdown with Davros is the best ever confrontation between a Doctor and Davros. Unlimited rice pudding FTW!!!
It's a Shame that both Colin Baker and Sylvester McCoy's Era Were Cut Short.
River Song: I made a Dalek beg for mercy.
Seventh Doctor: Cute.
Doctor: That's nice, I made their creator do the same.
@@IllusivePrime To be fair, Davros has begged quite a lot before this
Seventh Doctor: Tough.
Seventh Doctor: Cute, sweetie.
Seventh Doctor: I didn't give Davros unlimited rice pudding.
RIP Dave Ross: Failed on his quest to acquire unlimited rice pudding.
Why Dave Ross didn't call Roy Tromelly for help I will never know
Dave Ross versus Doc Thor?
No, Dave Ross vs. The Tock-Tor.
Dave ross
Mad Ross
seven was arguably one of the most dangerous doctors to tangle with, he had plans within his plans, no one could figure out what he was going to do until it was too late.
I like how he admits to imprisoning the primordial evil Fenris using a game of chess, one that still left Fenris obsessed over the solution even after it escaped.
7 was dangerous but he didn't make his later incarnations ashamed of his existence, so imagine how much more lethal 9 must have been. And I'm referring to John Hurt, the true 9th Doctor, not Christopher Ecclestone who is the 10th. 7 wouldn't have survived the Time War because he's a strategist, not a warrior. 9 was both, so if his strategies didn't work, he'd just fight his way out.
@@tomnorton4277 agreed. It’s just a shame we don’t get too see that side of the Doctor very often. The War Doctor was tired and observing before making his decision in his one on-screen appearance. Seven here is one of the few times where we really see the Doctor mean business and be more or less in control of the situation from the start. It would, perhaps be boring if he was in that position all the time- though it would be true to the character. It’s a shame that it’s so rare we see him at this level of power in the revived series and that it took so long for him to get there in the classic. I think we were really robbed of something brilliant when the classic series got cancelled. As for Nine… that could have been even better- but it’s not like the revived series to deliver on that, sadly.
13th Doctor: "I'm a pacifist"
7th Doctor: "Lol Dalek homeworld go boom"
"Never forget Doctor, you did this! I name you forever! You are the destroyer of worlds!"
The thing I never got about that line was that it was the Dalek's plan to, you know, destroy everything including all the worlds.
@Badartist888 Davros was clearly protecting on him.
Any time I see a "Darkest Doctor" debate on videos and people go on about Capaldi or Tenant etc, I just think back to Season 25-26 of the classics. This is a Doctor who started the episode knowing exactly what he was going to do, even going as far as debating the moral of his plan over a cup of coffee with a stranger before deciding to pull the trigger anyway - initiating (attempted) racial genocide vs the Daleks for the good of the universe in one of the biggest time-war instigating moves in Whostory... And this is just one footnote in the 7th Doctors long-ass book of 'dark shit I've done.
If you find yourself debating who is the darkest Doctor, you clearly haven't watched the chess-master at work, be it the TV show, novels, or Big Finish. I suggest you get started as soon as possible because he's effin' glorious when he gets going.
Hey, where would you start with the Seventh Doctor outside of the show?
The Master is a decent one for sure. Another one I like is "Night Thoughts" due to being an atmospheric (borderline horror) story. There are also some of the pre-BigFinish audios where McCoy and Sophie played the Doctor and Ace but had to refrain from using those names to avoid copyright, all for fans of the show who missed it when it entered the Twilight Years (cancellation). Do a search for "Punchline - Doctor Who audio play starring Sylvester McCoy" -- a fun story that starts light and bubbly before the threads start to unravel and reveal its true nature.
Lastly, if you want a slice of awesomeness, search for "Doctor Who - Afterlife - Fear Me" and listen to what he has to say to someone begging him for mercy. Chilling.
Masterfully summed up. I always thought of Seven as a midlife crisis, where the Doctor's arrogance and superiority complex began to overtake his compassion. He was starting to become jaded at this point in his life, realizing that if you're a humanized Lovecraftian god then there's very little point in pretending to be one of the little people. It's a good thing that he was humbled by the Time War because everyone seems to forget just how dark he was becoming, even if it's never openly acknowledged on the show. I can definitely see Seven evolving into the Valeyard. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
@@lewisfraser4153 The thing is, lots of fans like to talk up 7 this way, but within seasons24-26 it really isn't that accurate. There are shades of this absolutely, but firstly the reason 7 acts this way in the first place is a response to doctors 1-6 since he felt that their whole routine of "show up out of nowhere, turn lives/society on it's head, leave and forget about long lasting consequences" was selfish and a way of shafting responsibility. So he proactively looks to clean up the messes made by not just himself but the previous Doctors as well (thus all the "The Doctor fought/encountered villain X before" that goes on in this era), this is quite plainly put across in Remembrance itself, is made far more clear in stories like The Curse of Fenric and so on as well.
Next, you say there's no point in pretending to be one of the little people, but that's exactly what 7 does. That's part of the whole dynamic with Ace, he is pretending to be this homeless guy wandering around and bumping into things despite the fact that he has turned down the opportunity to be the Lord President of Gallifrey, has a home that doubles as a space/time machine, has no need for money in the first place *and* through his time machine has an incredible amount of potential power. Meanwhile he takes on Ace and manipulates/grooms her to be more like what he is (literally a Time Lord if we go by the "lost" S27 but even so just considering S24-26) whilst Ace herself actually is one of the "little people", is poor and genuinely homeless (sure she *could* go back to her shitty/abusive mum and no future life in Perivale but even ignoring how crappy that would be she did get uprooted against her will and has changed far too much to just slot back into Perivale even by Dragonfire alone - like Mel said, she has nowhere to go). Ace and 7 are both people trying to do what they think is genuinely right (as opposed to Doctors 1-6's "right") in spite of themselves, his actions lead to murders miseries and huge scale manipulations whilst she deals with violence at first and grows into the same pitfalls as 7 finds himself in. By trying to take genuine responsibility he falls into a rabbit hole and drags Ace down with him, she ultimately doesn't quite reach his level and he ultimately pulls it a little back because of her - thus Survival, where the Doctor doesn't intentionally run into the Master to kill him, tries to save him even, Ace doesn't turn into a murderous Cheetah person and does face up to her past, and both characters continue on as less dangerous, better versions of themselves, but crucially, still incredibly flawed and balancing the line of "trying to do the right thing" (which is also why I think that Survival accidently ended up being a fairly good "ending" in and of itself for this era).
The VNAs would have 7 and Ace jump headfirst back into that rabbit hole I mentioned, although both would also find their ways back out of it again. The Big Finish media, the PDAs and so on are the real culprits when it comes to the 7th Doctor's characterisation. They focus on the worst qualities he has and exaggerate them, now I love a fair few of these stories but they do toe the line of out of character with the 7th Doctor (and frankly Ace too quite often). He really isn't quite "the chess master" that people paint him out to be.
Finally, on how dark the Doctor overall was getting, people seem to forget that the Doctor was always this dark, the whole point of the original character was to be a mysterious, potentially dangerous figure towards the lead characters Ian and Barbara, who you could never fully trust. People also seem to forget the 9th Doctor lightly manipulating a 19 year old girl into ditching her family and life for him so he can enjoy her company and throw her life into extreme danger on a regular basis, or the 10th Doctor then dating that still only 20 year old girl, or the many times the Doctor goes all murder about something in the RTD era, or his king sized god complex, and so on. I wouldn't say the Doctor is ever anything but a dark, potentially dangerous figure, you can't fully trust.
Love it how the three daleks just stay around. You can almost read their minds as if they're saying well we've fucked that up.
Really think about what this scene means for a moment. The whole serial up to this point featured British Neo-Nazis running around the same stage as the Daleks, and the story is not subtle about drawing comparisons between the two groups. Then, in the last act of the story, the Doctor deliberately lets the Hand fall into the clutches of the Daleks, knowing this would happen. The Doctor is faced with a force of tyranny, oppression, one that has conquered and exterminated hundreds of worlds.... and he's not having it anymore. He annihilates Skaro, the capital and home world of the Dalek Empire, the kind of catastrophic destruction he is normally running around trying to avert. This is a Doctor who truly has no more forgiveness or restraint when it comes to the evils of the galaxy. This is a line, a scale few fictional heroes are ever allowed to cross, but for me that makes this the Doctor's shinning moment. This is my favorite thing he's ever done.
And like the Daleks, all the Neo-Nazis in this episode were killed by their hatred for non-Whites and for their desire for power.
@@girlgarde I hate that some people get so precious about anti-fascism in the media nowadays. If the same story aired today you just know there'd be triggered incels whining about political bias. This was a hell of an episode and I loved its timely message.
@@lewisfraser4153 Imagine the outrage from the MAGA/Brexiteer types 😳😂😂😂
I love it , McCoy was defiantly the darkest Doctor who and they follow that darkness with Eccelson
@@lewisfraser4153 the difference was that if you hated the serial the show runner would not come out and call everyone Nazis if they didn’t like it
Of course, the destruction of Skarro did nothing to destroy the Daleks indefinitely
That’s because NOTHING can destroy them indefinitely! Not even the Time War! If you’ve actually watched this episode, you’ll know that the Doctor has ruined their plans to give Skaro the same technology the Time Lords have - that’s why they have to resort to stealing it from the Time Lords in later episodes - and stopped the Dalek civil war that was happening on Earth by destroying all the Daleks involved in it. With no more Renegade or Imperial Daleks, the Dalek race combine and unite against the Doctor once again for future stories. But it looks like only people who actually watch the episode know that. 🤦♀️
@@EditorOfSL okay, boomer
@@EditorOfSL if I hadn't seen this episode from BBC America via doctor who revisited I wouldn't have commented
@@decimatorentertainmentstud8523 Actually I’m a child of the nineties, when a magical thing called a VCR existed! Twat!
@@EditorOfSL I was as well, fellow millennial
Davros: DO NOT DO THIS I BEG OF YOU!!!!
The doctor: nothing can stop it now!!!
Davros: HAVE PITY ON ME!!!!!!
what a complete change in Davros’ behaviour from determination and evil to defeatist and begging for pity
The 7th Doctor, the conspiring clown...and destroyer of worlds. If he hadn't regenerated into the dashing dandy how would he have fought the Time War?
it will be done in a few days
@@Mosdra_Kazuma It wouldn't have gotten the opportunity to start
@@michaelpuglisi6767 agreed
The 7'th Doctor was by all counts, the darkest one.
The start of the time war was Genesis of the Daleks
I love Remembrance of the Daleks, great action, story and writing. McCoy is so underrated, easily top three Doctors
The moment the Time Lords told the fourth Doctor how dangerous the Daleks, would become, the wheels were put in motion for this, and subsequently the Time War. As for the Thals, they left Skaro long before this, as they said in Planet Of The Daleks, a third Doctor story.🤓
And that's why he's my favorite Doctor.
And this was the clip that lead to 2 books being written to try and put this scene into the continuity...
Which Books is it.
@@chrispy3369 One of them is John Peel's "War of the Daleks". No idea what the other one is supposed to be.
I like the Daleks having different voices
This wasn't the start of the time war. Skaro wasn't destroyed. Dalek Prime had tricked the Doctor & Davros into believing the planet in question was Skaro, instead it was a fake set to distract them both.
So The Doctor caused the Time War
Yep, but not here. a long time before that.
Genesis of the Daleks, mate.
The Daleks discovered that the time lords sent the Doctor.
@Smokey 420 wich is just what i said.
Rock MK this only increased the tensions between timelords and Daleks. The trigger act of the time war was the Daleks invasion of Phaidon
@@EditedAF987 Invasion Of Peledon
I LOVE 7 SO MUUUCH >~
This story was so good I've actually been to visit many of the sites around London where filming was conducted. I appreciate it that much.
One of my favourite Dalek stories from the Classic Series!
Seventh Doctor: Blows up skaro
- 8 years later -
heads to skaro to get the master's remains
How did the Daleks resist the urge to exterminate him?
The movie had some very dumb stuff if it. Like Daleks even bothering to put the Master on trial for his crimes, when previously they’d had him work FOR them (Frontier In Space). It made no sense and just felt like some writer trying to do half assed fan service by throwing in the Dalek name.
@@Fluffykeith one of his crimes was probably from some sort of betrayal during or directly after that story.
Jedi Spartan 38 i just watched it a few days ago. No sign of that, apart from a few asides about how he thought he was the one in control. In any case, the Daleks don’t put people on trial. They’d just kill him.
Time travel, I guess. It’s quite daft though, you’re right
1:06 that dalek voice 😂😂😂
I remember watching this when I was 13 glued to the tv. Brilliant Dalek story.
Its too bad we don't get to see the entire view of the Imperial Dalek Mothership. Is there any photos showing the studio model of this massive ship?
I don’t know if they would have made a full model. The budget was pretty low by McCoy’s era. They probably only made the parts they needed
Just imagine this with modern special effects!
We'll be getting something like that with the Season 25 boxset.
This episode had great music!
Also I do love those moments where the Doctor lets the bad guys think they’ve won right before revealing he had a plan all along.
*Rule #7* : Pursue That Which is Meaningful, not That Which is Expedient.
I Have Pity *For* You.
This expertly cuts out all the best dialogue from this sequence!
“Activate the Omega device” my fav Davros line
Omega device activated
0:52 Skaro and the Mothership goes "KABOOM!!!" LOL
I love how the music cuts out as the planet explodes.
@@michaelpuglisi6767 Same here too. I really like the part where both the planet Skaro and Davro's Imperial Dalek Mothership goes: "KABOOOOOOM!!!"
A scene that makes me wish Sylvester was coming back as the Valeyard instead of Tennant.
"Hail, The Doctor, *The Great Exterminator"*
Thus this single event set in motion the beginning of the last great time war
Category: Non profits and activism
"You all burned, all of you! Ten million ships on fire, the entire Dalek race wiped out in one second!"
"YOU LIE!"
"I watched it happen! I MADE it happen!"
"YOU DESTROYED US!"
"I had no choice."
And Davros never got his unlimited rice pudding.
I know this didn’t start the Time War, but was this the straw that broke the camels back for the Daleks? It had to be
JAKECOTCENTER Productions Well if we’re talking about what led to the final battle on Gallifrey then yeah this was it. But in terms of WHEN the Time War first started it began after Genesis of the Daleks.
@@alkaligalactic4254 That's not quite right. The Time War hadn't started yet at this point. This was just another step in the escalation towards it after Genesis and Resurrection of the Daleks.
~*Skaro is turned to cinder and the time war has begun*~
Did we ever get an explanation as to how skaro returned in the TV movie and In series 9
Tomislive 33 in series 9 Davros says something like the Daleks have a concept of home, so from that we're supposed to assume they just took over a planet and made it look like the original skaro. It's still not made very clear
Brandon Hudson thanks for clearing that up I was always puzzled by that fact
Going by the War of the Daleks novel it was actually the Movellan homeworld The Doctor destroyed which was made to look like Skaro by means of a convoluted plot regarding Davros.
War of the Daleks is a terrible novel by the way but that's the only sort of explanation I think we're gonna get (and keep in mind this was pre-New Series so take that for what you will)
Solidus-Skully thank you it’s unfortunate that it’s such a confusing point In the show
The short and sweet (barely explained) version is that Skaro was rebuilt. They never really delved too deep into it other than that, bar some other media (novels etc).
And thus, the Time War was started.
Actually the Time War started in Genesis of the Daleks.
@@avremirine8986this was the first shot fired
the day the Time War started
I loved McCoy and Ace. In my fantasy, they had three more years together, taking the show up to '92, then a break for a few years. This was followed by the TV movie in 1996 which successfully launched Paul McGann's four-year run on the show, an era where the Doctor spent most of his time in America and was a little more romantic, we leave things in 2000 on a big cliffhanger with the Time War breaking out and McGann about to regenerate. Fans wonder if the show will ever return, but it does in 2005. The rest is history, until 2013 when the show celebrates its 50th anniversary and ends with the 11th Doctor about to regenerate. Fans agree that the show ended on a high.
The 7th doctor didn't give a fuck about the fact he just destroyed a whole planet of an alien race, something the 4th doctor couldn't do in Genesis.
I guess it's the difference between 'stop this race before they hit the height of tyranny' or 'stop this race from ever coming into being'.
I believe one of the reasons he gave in Genesis was the fact that the Daleks became a threat so massive that so many other races united to stop them, something that might not have happened without that galactic threat. Guess that says something about how ineffective the Movellans were as villains. That and it's rather easier to trick the enemy into destroying themselves through ineptitude over pulling the trigger personally. The chessmaster at work once again.
Davros had the nerve to beg the Doctor for mercy after all the trouble Davros and his Daleks have caused across the universe. What became of the Thals,the other inhabitants of Skaro whom the Doctor helped against those monsters on a few occassions?
I assume they left Skarro or killed by the daleks
azure rainbow the Thals had all left Skaro by this point. The seventh Doctor and Mel even helped them evacuate the planet in We are the Daleks
@@EditedAF987 And That Took Place Before This Episode
Mindy H presumably yes, it is meant to be set during season 24.
It’s called irony.
Did you know that: Writer John Peel proposed a story called War of the Daleks, where Skaro would later be saved from destruction during the planned 27th season of the series? Too bad, Doctor Who got canceled in 1989.
War of the Daleks is just dumb. Its a story written around a retcon, it may as well be called War of the Timeless Child
You have tricked me
Very Good
Nothing can stop it now
I know that dsleks dont have emotions, but you can feel the panic when one of them hysterically ssys the omega device is returning. They all knew they were doomed from that moment on.
I love dravos and I love remembrance of the daleks
A lot of people say this is what started the Time War, and even more people say Genesis of The Daleks is what started it, but I'd actually posit The Daleks is what started the Time War. When we see Skaro in Genesis, they seem to believe Skaro is the only planet that harbors life in the universe, and it should be assumed that this belief continues into the time of The Daleks. If that's true, then the doctor and co arriving on Skaro for the first time is what taught the Daleks that there's life on other planets, life that needs to be exterminated. Without this inciting event, the Daleks likely would've never left Skaro, would've never become a big enough threat for the Time Lords to send the doctor to prevent their creation, and with that in mind the Time War would've likely never happened.
I take it the Thals have either buggered off from Skaro by now or are just dead.
If the doctor had just talked to davros for a couple more seconds. He wouldn’t have been able to leave the ship in fond
If we ever get a Special Edition of Remembrance of the Daleks one of the scenes to be remaked should be this one
Talk about Catastrophic.
The 7th Doctor tried to warn Davros he was making a great mistake
The true start of the Last Great Time War.
Technically it was The Chase because that was when the Daleks decided that they needed to destroy the Doctor before he could destroy them. They declared war on A Time Lord and that was when the Doctor realised that, with them having time travel, it was only the Time Lords who could stop them. Hence the need to go back to Skaro in Genesis to try and destroy them.
Activate the omega device
Literal genocide
Just like explosion thunderbirds are go 1:43
if the doctor really wanted skaro destroyed, y not use the hand to do it himself? this doctor is hypocrite.
The thals live on skyrocket too
The Doctor casually committing genocide again
Some comment here about Davros being wrapped up in telephone cords.
10th: You commited a genocide
Wait, I thought that Genesis of the Daleks was the first shot of the Time War.
Eric Schmincke that and this only really increased tensions between the Daleks and Timelords. The actual trigger act for the war was the Dalek’s invasion of Phaidon
DOCTOR: “That ship has weapons capable of cracking this planet open like an egg”....
ACE replies
DOCTOR: “Because even they, ruthless though they are would think twice before making such a radical alteration to the time line.”
I thought at the time this seemed a bit of a lazy piece of writing, why is the good guy more ruthless than the Daleks? He taunts the Black Dalek to destruction having himself set events to make his own “radical alteration to the time line” of Skaro. This is later retconned into a planet called Antalin suggesting that the Daleks knew that the Omega device would go rogue on them and some how they had it programmed to destroy the decoy planet while Davros/the emperor didn’t know this. All in all the fact the Daleks don’t just crack open Earth like an egg while the Doctor happily thinks (or does) he destroys Skaro doesn’t sit right. Presumably he has no worries about killing the Thals? Also if Skaro wasn’t destroyed why did the Black Dalek give up?
The thals had either relocated to another planet or they were all EXTERMINATED
@@thecaptain6845 the point is/was good guys destroy Skaro or at least think they do and there’s no concerns about altering timelines, radically or anything. Daleks don’t crack open Earth like an egg because doing so would make such a radical alteration to the timeline, presumably their later conquest of the planet would be redundant, as well as a great many other things.
In a nutshell:
Doctor = ruthless killer happy to totally exterminate one, possibly two races and destroy a planet, just to get one over on Davros (why didn’t he just remove the Hand Of Omega to another safe location?).
Daleks = sentimental lackeys who just want the Hand Of Omega, yes they’ll exterminate anything that gets in their way but other than that it’s just a smash and grab for both factions. In fact the story wouldn’t have really worked without two factions.
@@thecaptain6845 what a load of rubbish, did you just type the first thing that came into your head?
@@thecaptain6845 You are totally missing the point, that the whole thing is very poor writing. As for anything else you’ve written like The Doctor wants to destroy Earth because its power mad WTF?
@@thecaptain6845 ok, so why didn’t The Doctor take The Hand Of Omega to another safe place? Why deliberately cause people to be killed as fall out of the skirmish. Why risk, even if the risk was slight that Davros wouldn’t just crack open the planet with the Morhership weaponry? How did he know Davros was on that ship rather than just Daleks and gamble on that? Obviously using Davros’ emotions against him, had the conversation been with emotionless Daleks the result would have been very different.
It seems that a lot of events happened because The Doctor fancied stirring up the red ants and the black ants and didn’t care about anything other than his own goals.
That’s bad writing, it’s totally out of character, bearing in mind the “Ruthless though they are” Daleks could have just obliterated the planet and sifted the debris or even just sterilised the area where they knew their prize would be. They didn’t, they almost try to just slip in unnoticed, it’s only the destruction of the transmat which caused the use of the shuttle, after the initial landing.
The “entering Skaro time zone” line could be pivotal, in that the Hand could travel to the point in time when Skaro was destroyed by whatever means (other than by The Doctor using the Hand Of Omega) and just be there at that time, however I’m not sure how that event could then be broadcast as live but that would be the only way that The Doctor doesn’t come out of this as a mass murderer. Presumably there isn’t much life on Skaro, certainly in their small area of the planet, not much is known about the rest of the planet. Assuming there are no Dals, Kaleds or animal life within the known occupied area of the planet, there are Daleks and Thals and the whole of the rest of the planet for any other species which the Doctor is also responsible for their genocide.
It’s great visually but badly out of character, therefore badly written. Even if the planet is only occupied by Daleks it is still wrong. The viewer at least knows that Skaro is occupied by Daleks and Thals. There isn’t a line saying that the planet is only occupied by Daleks so you have to realise that the Doctor decided that killing the Thals was a worth while thing to do in order to destroy the Daleks home planet which was last seen in Destiny Of The Daleks and was seemingly not particularly occupied by the Daleks as they had sent a small force to find and reactivate Davros and were certainly not in occupation of the planet.
Favorite story
The 7th Doctor is just doing a teeny tiny amount of trolling.
so, does skaro have rings?
not any more
wait i don't understand if skaro was destroyed why does it still exist or is this just a timey wimey thing?
Dayofthedaleks152 I think the novels revealed that it wasn’t Skaro and was just some other planet
@@EditedAF987 I dislike that explanation as it kinda diminishes the impact of this episode. But this was in 1997, before "Time War" became a blanket explanation for canonical inconsistencies
Missy says in The Magician’s Apprentice “They’ve built it again. They brought it back”
Ya I just assumed Skaro either survived the blast, or the Daleks forceful mwegw various points of Skaro timeline into one, reconstructing Skaro.
So the Doctor destroys Skaro. But what about the Thals? The race that has been fighting the Daleks/Kaleds for at least a thousand years? Or had the Thals left Skaro at this point?
In the Jon Pertwee story Planet of the Daleks, the Thals moved from Skaro and started setting up new homes on other planets.
@@avremirine8986 Yeah, I thought that might be the case. But Doctor Who chronology is famously difficult to follow, hence River Song.
I Don't Like It Productions in the audio We are the Daleks, The Thals evacuate all of the Thals from Skaro
I'd like to know where the Thals are. Since Doctor Who came back on there hasnt been one peep of them
How is destroying a ship destroying Skaro?
at 0:55
Ah, guess it was over too quickly lol
According to EU, the Thals had long since abandoned Skaro.
ADarthTokuDalek European Union?😅
Liam Cahill Expanded Universe
So basically the doctors plan comes down to insulting the pride of davros into activating the omega device without test it first? Its a pretty poor end t9 an episode if that is the csse. It surely wouldnt of worked ona standard dalek.
This is the same race that during their rule of Earth and when about to core the planet didn't check for blockages or programmed the bomb to detonate at a certain depth instead of a timer causing their annihilation. This is perfectly in character for the Daleks
Idk if you’ve had the chance to watch much of the 7th doctors stories, but Davros compared to the Dalek’s had emotions, the Daleks hardly had any emotions. The 7th Doctor was like a chess player and playing mind games with Davros, we didn’t know he had sabotaged the device. Davros even though he’s a brilliant villain, he’s more vulnerable than a Dalek.
@@Alphamask978 Yeah ive seen a lot of who. I just think its a cheap ending, based on the fact that the Doctor thought a Dalek/Davros would jump the gun and not test it first.
I'm sure the doctor thought of a Plan B
What utter garbage the late 80s were for doctor who and i thought it then too,cheesy and with a tiny budget
Yes. You ARE shit.
This being the story so cheesy it was recently voted the second best Dalek story of all time by Doctor Who Magazine readers, and where the budget was so tiny that they had to build a life-sized Dalek spaceship and land it in a playground with a crane instead of using a model
Shush, fuckwit.
No one of the best
@@wonkybobson5704 Not gonna lie, it honestly took me a second reas to realize that was sarcasm. Sorry for the stupidity and totally agree.