Could you please explain why you decided to carry out that "experiment"? We as viewers notice this because it is so distracting,annoying,irritating and it just generally removes the viewer. Meaning?. We will unsubscribe.
You’ll find that it’s the edit: you just need to make sure you’re always looking into a camera (I think) so a two camera setup is fine but you fix it in the edit…
It looks as if there had been a bright light beaming down on your left, forcing you to look away from it; no big deal (at least for us), though. Also, please see my comment about the 1962 Plymouth Fury/Dodge Coronett, two cars that almost single-handedly threw Chrysler into bankruptcy in 1962.
I went to DeLorean and got a passenger seat ride at Dunmurry, Belfast in 1981. Could have got a job, I was wary of the £10k salary and the political stuff going on at the time, thought the car had promise, and when Back To The Future came out I was gobsmacked!
I was told years ago that the reason they chose a DMC 12 was by the mid 80’s the infamy of both John DeLorean and the company had made it a joke vehicle. The movie changed the image of the car that would have otherwise been just footnote in the history of failed sport cars manufacturers.
If you want to know just how aerodynamically advanced the Citroen GS was just consider that Toyota used the same basic shape 30 years later for the 2nd gen Prius.
Well.. if a shape Is copied doesn't mean Is done so for aerodynamics, also, if a shape Is "similar" Is vastly different aerodynamic-wise. Also using a Prius as "example of good aerodynamics" Is beyond ridiculous
Cizetta V16-T. You thought the Ferrari engine was a bit complicated? Try two Lamborghini Urraco V8's essentially welded together, 6 litres, 64 valves, 8 camshafts, 2 seperate fuel injection systems. They built 10 of the beasties before they went bust.
I remember that car from a magazine back in the day. It was put against Ferrari F40, Porsche 959 and some other one too that I can't remember at this time.
I don't think the GS Birotor was thé cause of Citroëns bankruptcy, but it definitely gave it a big push. The market was steering towards a very standardised concept of what a car is at the time: a dashboard with round fixed dials with rotating needles, self-cancelling indicators on a stalk, wipers on another stalk, a chunky steering wheel with non-self-centering power steering, watercooled inline or V engines, entirely new designs every decade or sooner... Citroën was far away from that concept with all of their cars at the time and enthousiasts alone weren't enough of a client base to keep a car company afloat. The same thing happened with other manufacturers as well: DAF, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Saab, even Volvo... You want an example of a car that actually is solely responsible for the demise of its manufacturer? The Renault Avantime: First Renault took the Espace from Matra, then they gave them a very niche concept that couldn't and didn't sell well instead, and to make matters worse they made a car aimed at the exact same people (the Vel Satis) and put it in the same showrooms. The result: bye bye Matra.
The history of the DeLorean is well documented and includes pretty much any problem, an upcoming manufacturer can stumble across, starting from *) financing troubles, the pressure of the british Thatcher gov, to the fake CIA drug deal, *) inexperienced and non-skilled workers (who Thatcher wanted to provide jobs by this investment) resulting in quality problems (compare Alfa with their south italy plant for the Alfasud), *) and a per-se proven V6 (used in many other european limos), but not yet matching the expectations of the whole impression and not getting a turbo version in time.
My parents had 2 CITROEN GS. Fisrt one, a beige "Special" model, with the smallest engine, the 1015 cc and the, a white one, the 1220 cc "Club" model. Good memories in them as a kid !
My first can was a GSA 1300 n pale green. I have 2 CX's, a 75' CX2000 Club originally in blue, and an '87 CX25GTI in metalic maroon. Nothing comes close to citroen ride quality and handling.
The original Austin/BL Mini (wonderful car, I've owned several) cost more to manufacture than it was sold for. Ford took a Mini back in the sixties, dismantled it and realised the truth. Nobody told Austin/BL. Their huge sales success contributed to killing the company.
And that's why the CITROEN CX never had a 6 cylinders engine (unlike the RENAULT 30,the TALBOT TAGORA or the PEUGEOT 604 for other french car manufacturers ), because the engine bay in the CX was designed to fit that rotary engine, and not a 6 cylinders ...
@@manoman0 Cool! My parents had, from 1984 until 1987 or maybe it was 1988, an used 1977 CITROEN CX 2000 "Super". They dropped it for a then brand new PEUGEOT 405 GLD
J'ai possédé un petit morceau d'histoire sans le savoir ! Dans les années 80 j'ai acheté aux enchères une Talbot tagora V6 qui était une édition spéciale préparée par Danielson grand préparateur Français, acquise pour une somme dérisoire, personne n'en voulait et pourtant cette auto était géniale, châssis,freinage, moteur incroyable, seule la consommation était démesurée ! Les vitesses atteintes sur autoroute à l'époque m'aurait emmené directement en prison aujourd'hui ! Pour la création de ma société je l'ai vendue à un collectionneur 5 ans plus tard .....j'en garde un merveilleux souvenir
A well known case of an owner losing controle of their company is what happened to Andre Citroen. At the time, he was an industry magnet, on par with the likes of Henry Ford. Citroen was a huge manufacturer of helical gears, and a pionere in mechnical technology and mass production, one of the pillars of the French economy. When they decided to develope front wheel drive for the automobile, the development of the CV joint was a huge drain on the companies finances. Eventually Citroen succeded and in 1935 produced the highly inovative Citroen Taction Avant, but it was too late for the company, they were bought out by Michilen. Today we all drive cars using Andre Citroens invention, pionered in the 1930s.
Spot on. The Traction Avant was the first in a long line of fantastic cars, all the way up to the C6. The greatest car the world has ever seen, was the DS.
DeLorean Motor Company was purchased some time ago and is now back afloat, and their designers have designed a new Electric DeLorean, named the Alpha 5 if I recall. The original production parts, are in their warehouse.
The Citroen GS was a fantastic automobile,had an ultra-compact air cooled flat four engine,it was way ahead of its time. The Vector W-8 was very impressive in person
The GS also couldn't hold a candle to its predecessor, the CX. Many Citrophiles (as Citroën enthousiasts are called) saw the GS for what it was: a bad compromise between the best of what Citroën had to offer (the CX) and a far more normal car. Sadly for Citroën they kind of failed at achieving anything with the GS: although it had some of the almost patented Citroën quirkiness, it had almost nothing of the quality of the more expensive CX. Even worse the GS lacked the advantages that a "normal" car had over the complicated CX: being inexpensive, simple to maintain and reliable. So where Citroën thought that with the GS they were delivering the best of both worlds, in reality they delivered a car that combined the worst of both worlds.
@@tjroelsma The predecessor was the DS not the CX and it was twice the price,the GS was affordable to the common man and had a lot of that Citroen engineering brilliance,specially the engine was a masterpiece,my father was addicted to big and heavy cruisers,he had a monster 1973 Marquis and he rented a GS in France and was impressed with the car. I was there and i remember. Look at a picture of a 73' Marquis and you'll see it is a completely different type of car.
Jack. What about the Tucker Auto company? Outstanding car and design. Many amazing tech advances. Driven into bankruptcy by the big 3 US auto makers manipulating the US Securities and Exchange Commission.
Love the fact you used the reference Doozy to talk about the Webber. Doozy was used by Duesenberg cars in the slogan ‘It’s a Doozy’ and they themselves were dissolved and ended up in the history books.
The Auburn/Cord/Duesenberg Museum in Auburn Indiana is worth a visit. Get close to a 34 Doozy and you will surely understand where the phrase came from!
I read an article on the Vector W8 in either Motor Trend or Road & Track when the car was released that explained the three speed transmission. At the time the car was released, the only automotive transmission that could handle the car's power was the GM TH425 transaxle first introduced in the Oldsmobile Toronado in 1966. That particular unit was very overengineered and was also used in GMC's Motorhome. The three speeds were set across the car's range, allowing the torque converter to fill in the gaps. As a side note, I had a 1970 Pontiac Firebird with a 350 cid engine and a TH350 transmission and it drove well with three speeds; some GM cars used the Powerglide tranny, which had two speeds and worked fine.
I think the GS birotor was never intended to be a serious attempt to build a mainstream car to attract volume sales. It was really a test bed for the planned 3 rotor engine which was intended to power the forthcoming CX. After NSU’s debacle with the Ro 80 and the severe technical problems which soon became apparent with the Wankel engine Citroen were forced to abandon this plan and had to resort to installing the old engine from the DS. This, combined with the failure of the SM owing to the fuel crisis, was enough to push Citroen into insolvency. Interestingly, before the final merger/takeover with Peugeot there was a serious discussion about Citroen merging with FIAT but I believe the French government pulled the plug on that happening, they were determined that Citroen would remain French. Why interesting? Because the entire PSA group has now merged with FIAT and its other brands to form Stellantis.
Another car that doomed it's maker! The Facel Vega Facellia Facel Vega had been successful in the 1950s making large luxurious GT cars sporting Chrysler hemi V-8 engines. Then the decision was made to produce a small sports cars, using a 4 cylinder of their own design. This engine was an engineering disaster, with almost all of them being replaced under warranty, creating such a massive financial hole that it swallowed up the company.
Apparently there are still some Citroen GS Bi-Rotors driving around in France. The Dutch company Van Veen bought the glut of engines left over at the supplier & fitted them to a motorcycle, the OCR 1000.
I have this fantasy of a GS Bi-Rotor body fitted with a 6 cylinder engine based on the GS flat four. Not sure if the engine bay is long enough, but the crank is pressed up, and it has separate iron cylinders. The DS was originally supposed to have a flat six engine in front of the wheels. My GS-6 would have achieved a lot of Bertoni's ideas....
Great! The Vector certainly brought back memories from the 80's - at the time I thought it was the coolest car ever, much better than Lamborghini or Ferrari.
I think Citroen’s troubles dated from the huge development costs of the CX coinciding with the 1973 oil crisis. The Birotor really didn’t help you’re right but there were other factors… Great stuff though, Citroen made three of the best cars ever, the GS, CX and SM!
Indeed they also by that time had several car brands absorbed and lost money on and did silly projects like building a helicopter (also using the wankel). I did ride in a GS rotor once (co-developed with NSU btw) with my dad who worked for citroen for 50 years. But we drove home in his own citroen ds a car i prefered by a mile. You did forget a few great cars.. The DS and Traction Avant... the CX was never one of my fav except in the newer design and if it was in the extra long wheel base prestige... for me the shape looked better on that.
I drove a Citroen GSA (paid for by insurance, while my* car was being repaired after being rear-ended). -Absolutely loved it ! But when I tried to rent one a couple of years later, they didnt have them anymore. Apparently they were too much hassle... So different from their other models (to repair) & stuff along those lines. -Cheers from Iceland 🇮🇸
@Giles Halliwell "Great stuff though, Citroen made three of the best cars ever, the GS, CX and SM!". You forget the Traction Avant, ahead of its time by decades: no chassis but monocoque, independent suspension, torsion bars instead of coiled springs, front wheel drive. The other HUGE innovation car is - again - the Ciroen DS : hydropneumatic suspension, unsurpassed road handling, adjustable height and motorised Jack lift, directive headlights and so much more.
@@johnjeanb You’re absolutely right! I didn’t mean to dismiss any of Citroen’s earlier genius! I should have made it clearer that as LJK Setright stated in Car that those three cars were Citroen’s 1970s “tour de force”! Citroen are still, historically, the most interesting car manufacturer…
The Cord Beverly became the Hupmobile Skylark and the Graham Hollywood. For all three companies, this was their last car model (although Graham continued on as a business, they didn't produce cars, only farm equipment).
The Vector received a lot more money from investors than from the lawsuits...The problem (I knew Jerry) was that he put more energy into getting investment money than building cars.(He built 18) The styling revolutionized car design as much as the countach did . . . .
Apparently the magnificent roadster by BMW, the 507, nearly ! bankrupted the company. So much went into the (very good) engineering of the car and it was always sold at a loss. This was at a time when the company did not! really have the financial "clout"... (word?) ...to dabble in such things. So instead of making a cheap-to-produce car for people to get mobile in the aftermath of WW2, they produced this now lusted-after, wonderful, roadster 😁 -Cheers from Iceland 🇮🇸
Pontiac Aztek deserves a dishonorable mention for being both trash bin ugly AND a massive drag on the company's finances, to the point where Pontiac was itself axed in a GM reorganisation.
The father of a high school friend of mine had a successful car lease company in the mid 80's. He decided on the Maserati Biturbo to be their top of the range executive car. My friend, wherever he is now, still owes me a few dozen cafeteria lunches.
Speaking of going broke from a car; I once looked for a used Bentley convertible. It was a Azure ...white leather interior really a beauty. My belly screamed YES but my brain pointed a gun on me and said NO! xD
I remember working part time after school, as a petrol pump attendant, pre self service, for BP National in the late 1970s , yes the Smurf garages! A lady I worked with drove me home in her Mazda RX2 which had the Wankel rotary engine. Could not believe the excellent performance with incredible smoothness. The lady said she could get 30mpg under 60 mph but anything over that it drunk fuel like it was going out of fashion . Apparently they used to suffer with their seals , but it must have made other manufacturers take notice at the time.
There was a common mod for the RX2, which was to disable the rev limiter (I was told it was in the distributor rotor arm). It was supposed to be good for nearly 100mph in 2nd gear, but I guess the seals and the fatigue life of the Wankel rotor would all suffer from that treatment :-)
Had a 1974 Mazda 13B RX-4 in the early 80s as my first car. Great performance, surprising reliability/longevity, great fun to drive by the standards of the day …… 17mpg (but in Australia at the time who cared), which was a lot for the size of the car and similar to what was achieved at the time by my father’s land barge Valiant Regal 770 with a 265ci (4.3L) 4-barrelled carby Hemi I6 and 3speed auto.
Hell, I built 2 1986 Pontiac Firebird T-roof cars (Knight Rider) that both topped out at 210 MPH using the 454 V8,(I ought to know. I outran 7 Ky State Police Cruisers (Ford Crown Vics with the 460 interceptor engines) driving one in a Panic run from Hazard Ky to Lexington KY when my mother was dying. I made the 113 miles run in way less than a hour. I later sold both cars to a collector who wanted clones of KITT. Although I wanted to keep 1, I had Mom's medical bills and funeral to pay for. I needed the money. I now drive a 1999 Ford Ranger Pickup (220000 miles powered by a stock 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine) that runs on gasoline and hydrogen. (HHO Dry Cell Generator under the hood). Fantastic mileage and has NEVER failed to start and run.
I understand that the De Lorean body presses ended up being used to anchor salmon cages off Co Galway, Ireland. I have seen several De Loreans and it is a pity the project didnt have more success.
I know a lot of people will say the Multipla for the ugliest car , but I think it’s a design icon that will eventually be celebrated for its clever quirky-ness . Besides have you ever seen a Ssangyong Rodius ? That’s a proper ugly boat
When the original Multipla were on the road sixty years ago, me and my Ma thought it was the ugliest car ever. Our Italian neighbours had one. They went over the Alps with two kids. They welded cigarettes into the back of the car when driving to Italy. On the way home to Switzerland, they did the same with liquor. Teday those cars go for a crazy amount of money. The most expensive one was sold for over 80 000Sfr (or US$). The second gen was really an ugly duckling but actually it was a very clever car. My wife wanted one. But this never happened. My daughter has a third gen car and she LOVES it.
Thanks Jack, interesting set of cars, & 2 I'd never heard of! It's not 'costs' for the Influenzo, it's 'investments'!, doesn't sound so bad that way! You'd have only spent the money on getting into mischief anyway!
I knew the first V8 model of the Vector. And journalists made a big fuzz about it. I remember that a car magazine could test one. Guess what happened: It burnt to the ground!
Citroën was cruising for a bruising around that time - so overextended: several concurrent models in overlapping market sectors, CX/SM/GS development costs, US safety standards crippling the SM, energy crisis, French foreign policy on nuclear testing caused negative sentiment toward French products in export markets. A shame, because their designs were truly stunning.
I was bankrupted twice by cars. A Rover 2000 was a very comfortable sweet handling ride that broke on every ride. My BMW X3 cost more than $1 per km to keep on the road, not counting fuel, oil changes, and tires.
I was a car mechanic C & G qualified from 1970 till my final exam 4yrs later my first experience with Citroen tech was parking a car with electronically controlled brakes bad enough the GS had hydraulic suspension pressure bled into the braking system It all worked but as a descendant of Vikings I understood why we Brits find annoying the French a fun thing to do
Hey Jack, interesting story though I have to say I quite like the look of the "Swiss precision" Weber ( pronounced Wayburr??, as you are always particular with the "italian's"??) sports car especially the 2013 version which looks different again and really sexy. Interesting enough Weber Sports-cars still have an active website so maybe things are just "shelved" Great and entertaining video, thanks!
On the DeLorean: At the time, the British govenment's interest was to boost employment in conflict battered northern Ireland (DeLorean cars was based in Belfast). John DeLorean tapped into the seam.
Two cars that nearly destroyed Chrysler were the 1962 Plymouth Fury/Dodge Coronett/Polara, which had been drastically downsized, based on a false rumor about GM's plans, from their 1961 predecessors, leaving Dodge and Plymouth dealers left with little to sell and angry customers unwilling to pay "more money for less car". Chrysler only survived by rushing a stripped-down version of the Chrysler Newport into production as the Dodge Custom 880, and repositioning the other models as mid-sized cars. The cars actually served Chrysler well as mid-sized models and the chassis and drivetrains stayed in production all the way up to 1980 as the R-body Dodge St. Regis and Chrysler New Yorker. Ironically, those cars, which were loved, particularly as police cruisers and were considered full-sized with the tall, boxy bodies Chrysler had put on them for 1979, were only forced out of production because the company was once again on the brink of bankruptcy and the U.S. government made the discontinuation of all full-sized cars, no matter how profitable, a condition for the ensuing bailout.
Hi Jack, i have been watching your videos and enjoyed, most of them are very interesting. I see you are also a fan of Tamiya, the addictive hobby. Love all your classic car contents. Keep them coming.
My father had a DeLorean with an automatic transmission. It was everything a sports car of that time was typical of. Tight hard suspension, under powered and hard to see around the car when sitting in the driver's seat. He loved it. Unfortunately, it was going to the deal for repairs all the time and had to go away.
The Renault Avantime bankrupted Matra. I loved the J11 and the J63 Espace, such weirdly great cars. I bumped mine (slowly and sideways) into a guardrail and the dent just popped back. The 140hp engine just sounded so happy, 8.5 liters consumption at 150 on the Italian Autostrada. 7 people plus some creatively packed luggage. One of the best cars to park, which could carry something. I ruined it unfortunately and still miss it every now and then.
I have been thinking about Rover & Tesla design similarities recently. Rover kept the same car design all be-it with minor cosmetic changes for years while other brands would design and release over two generations of completely redesigned models. Tesla models look exactly the same to me no matter which model you go for. Design becomes stale and looking at other makers offerings such as KIA it leaves Tesla looking outdated already. The only manufacturers to get away with having every model look like the previous gen is Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc because of what they are. Tesla is in the family car market a completely different set of rules apply. It will be interesting to see what happens with Tesla as new ultra modern design alternative EV’s are bought to market.
I don't think Tesla is overly concerned about its cars being stale. It has been updating the car under the skin along with the factories to build them at a fast clip. So long as the current cars are selling why switch. It looks like there will be enough batteries to build the cyber truck and semi in the next year. Then the robo taxi. Should be interesting to see how well it can pull these off. Speculating here. But my guess is that as sales of current models slow new models will be built in new factories so as not to cut current production. If Tesla is working on replacements for current models it would be wise not to show the concept designs or cars as it would reduce demand for the current cars. Just the word of newer and better batteries is doing that.
The NSU Ro-80 springs to my mind. Wonderful car, but the initial teething problems of its Wankel engine produced a ton of costly warranty claims and killed the car commercial appeal, to the point that NSU had to be absorbed by Volkswagen. On the other hand, Volkswagen owes much to the engineers of NSU and their proficiency with designing moder FWD cars - in many ways, the Ro-80 was the mother of AUDI 100 and VW Passat, great grandmother of Scirocco and Golf.
Not the Audi :) They had pretty decent fwd cars before Mercedes sold Auto Union to VW in 1966. NSU and Auto Union formed Audi NSU Auto Union in 1969. The VW K70 came out in 1970 and had not much in common with the then current Audi 100. When VW stopped production of the K 70 they dumped the engine, too and used Audi engines in Passat, Golf, Scirocco and Polo (the latter was a Audi 50 with smaller engine and cheaper interior)
@@woongah My dad had the Audi 100 back then and his best friend the K 70 and a NSU Ro 80, too. The Ro 80 is still on the road 50 years later! But it's a garage queen and sees the road once or twice a year to be trailered to old-timer events 😀
Nsu s were all rear engined apart from the ro80 and were fabulous but expensive in other countries like the UK due to import taxes etc this in turned resulted in bl and Ford cornering the English market and look what happened to them due to shoddy build quality now we buy German cars and make them rich
Legend Industries was another casualty of the DeLorean mess. They were working on twin turbocharging the PRV V6 when it all went under. They had a fairly successful business turbocharging Fiat Spiders in the early 80s.
Ah the Sierra, one moment in time they were everywhere, and suddenly they disappeared from the face of they earth like dinosaurs! Have you lately seen a Sierra? Chances are that if you ever see one, it will be a Cosworth, because of the collector investment value.
Sierra, Man and machine in perfect harmony..........yea right. My No2 at work had one, an 1800. We left a Watford site heading for near Kings Cross, my car not being motorway suitable. He roared off, onto the M1, instantly a spec............... Yet I was the next car behind as we both turned into the office site. Oh, my car?? A Fiat 126 650cc twin cylinder air cooled!!!
My father had two GS's both with the larger engine of 1220cc and 65bhp, which was capable of cruising all day fully loaded at 80mph on the German Autobahns. The smaller GS of 1015cc didn't have a red line on the tach and put out 54bhp IIRC but had to be kept on the boil. It was a super car on smooth roads with few bends because to hustle it along winding lanes required an element of faith due to the poor damping and lack of feedback. The biggest problem with the DeLorean was the choice of a stainless steel body au naturel that many punters questioned. It was also built in Northern Ireland that did not have a history (or competence?) for building motorcars. Overall, DeLorean himself was not suited to set up and run a small volume car manufacturing business and although he was a former US car royal with GM he seemed to be in the mold of all US car execs who fail at building or competing against cars from Europe viz. Ford's failure with JRL and Aston Martin, and Volvo, Chevy's failure with Vauxhall and Saab, most of whom apart from Saab went on to succeed when US shackles were released. The DeLorean today is seen as a classic with a large service industry keeping the cars on the road especially in the US. Primarily, the car wasn't a failure it was the management.
Roots, the Hillman Imp, made in Glasgow, by ship builders, out of girders, and run on Irn Bru. Or the flip side, a video about cars that were good and sold well, but were finished of by poor management and bad decisions. BTW, I wonder what you'd call a person or group of rotary engine enthusiasts?
Rootes Group didn't go bankrupt though, Lord Rootes died in 1964 and his son sold off 30% to Chrysler for a funding package. Chrysler increased its share to 45% in 1966 and became a majority shareholder in '67. A new company was formed: Rootes Motors Limited - Chrysler UK in 1970. All sold off to Peugeot in 1978.
May I nominate the 1973~74 Leyland P76 sedan, which for dubious distinction was the only post-war passenger car to wear the brand name of Leyland (since the pre-WW2 Leyland 8). It also bankrupted Leyland Australia within 18 months. With honourable mention to the related (and ultra rare) Leyland Force 7 coupe. Btw I've had the pleasure to own two P76 V8s, they drive great!
The NSU Ro80 was so unreliable that it bankrupted the company, and became part of VW. Their similar car designed around a piston engine was almost ready for production, and got sold as the VW K70. Unfairly unloved.
@@pashakdescilly7517 : the operative word is "was". It isn't now, because the technology was improved over the years, ultimately by Mazda. NSU itself had solved the rotor tip seal problem by 1970/71.
@@smhorse I remember that in the early and mid '70s, there was a thriving trade in fitting alternative engines into the Ro-80. The Ford V-4 was popular, Autocar did a review of a converted machine. Unrefined and anaemic, but I suppose it was a suitably short engine.
Vector fans generally don't consider the M12 a Vector in any meaningful sense. The coachwork is loosely based on Wiegert's WX3, but the powertrain was in direct contradiction to the principles Wiegert held to. The Interior - and particularly the aircraft-inspired controls - Wiegert worked so hard on in the W2/W8 (and largely kept in the WX3) had been ditched entirely. In essence, the M12 was little more than a kit car that vaguely resembled the unique and head-turning W8. It is worth noting that Vector under Wiegert produced 1 W2 as the prototype, and 17 production W8s along with 2 pre-production W8s - while "Vector" under Megatech produced only 17 M12s total, including 3 (or four, by some reports) pre-production cars - and one production car was the one sent to Lamborghini! Both Road & Track and Car & Driver tested the W8 - Car & Driver had mechanical difficulties and didn't like the car, while Road & Track were quite impressed. Production models have not been noted for mechanical difficulties beyond those expected for their age. On the other hand, AutoWeek and CarThrottle tested the M12 - with CarThrottle describing it as "a botch job", and AutoWeek awarded it with the title "The worst car ever tested by AutoWeek"! In short, it wasn't the Wiegert-designed car that put the company into bankruptcy, but incompetent management, shortcuts, poor design and execution of a makeshift copycat car, and probably some embezzlement by a Megatech principal.
High fuel consumption, high oil consumption, poor emissions, rotor sealing issues. The obvious disadvantages and engineering & warranty costs of the Wankle engine caused severe financial damage to NSU, Mazda Suzuki and American Motors. After initial investment General Motors was wise enough to dump the Wankle.
1:30 when saying a decimal number, you don't say it like you would a regular number in front of the decimal point. In other words, saying "nought point thirty one" is incorrect. The correct way to say it "nought point three one". You say each digit individually.
That may be correct for decimals, but from experience, calling out long numbers in pairs eg thirty one, not, three one, produces a lot less errors transcribing at the other end, and is fractionally quicker.
Check out the Fisker Karma.. 2011-2012, the sports "hybrid" that never really made it and shortly after their sole battery supplier filed for bankruptcy, so did Fisker. They had some really risqué adverts in 2011/2012 though always featuring a pretty model in stockings and suspenders posing in (or next to) the car.
Lotus was always on the verge of bankruptcy as Mr. Chapman always sold just enough cars to fund their racing efforts. It wasn't so much the DeLorean deal that made Lotus file for bankruptcy as it was the death of Mr. Chapman who left the company in such a state after his death, the existing executives didn't want to play the financial dance Mr. Chapman was willing to do, and wanted time to properly fund and save the company. Doesn't mean DeLorean didn't play a part, but it was really a coincidence and minor part. Mr. Chapman after all took $17 million from the company through a secret exchange with DeLorean and that money completely disappeared without a trace.
The Facellia bankrupted Facel Vega maker. Instead of having a foreign engine on it like prior models, they decided to build a home-made engine, which was a total fiasco...
Good video but it is not mentioned that the Delorean had a special feature. With the addition of the optional temporal flux capacitor it could displace temporally in addition to physically. Those capacitors are extremely rare today as are the 1.2 Jiggawatt "Mr. Fusion" brand generators.
I don’t think Chrysler & Mercedes went bust after their disastrous ‘collaboration/integration’ but a big loss-maker that epitomised their coming together was the Chrysler Crossfire SRT6. Actually a very fine car in my opinion, it didn’t sell successfully. Utilising the former SLK production bed, the Crossfire was an SLK with predominantly Mercedes parts. Great styling from SRT, a 3.2litre supercharged AMG engine & put together by Karman in Germany. Then there was the ‘bickering’ between Daimler & SRT regarding the top speed & power numbers between the 2 companies’ flagship cars. The Crossfire SRT6 threatened to be cheaper & faster than the top Merc (with a similar 354 HP) so they agreed not to mention this (but put a 200mph speedometer in the dashboard of the SRT6 nonetheless). A possible future classic? I reckon so.
the Bricklin was built in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada. It has the distinction of almost bringing down the Conservative government led by Richard Hatfield, who was the provincial Premier.
@@aldenfloyd5432 Yep. It was a cool car, but had build quality issues and production problems. I remember the ads in the US after the company was sold claiming, "The new American sportscar."
Thanks to "back to the Future" the DeLorean became famous. Of course DeLoreans arrest for selling cocaine didn't help the company either. Interesting topic, thumps up!
hydro nuematic load leveling suspension wasn't new in the 1980s some American Cars have had versions of them since the 50's/60s or even some lower cost full size cars did as well I.E. Chevrolet Impala/Caprice etc. my dad drove a used 1984 Caprice sedan for several years when I was growing up
Well, Citroen got rescued, so the company didn't go under. A company that did go under because of a bad car design was Facel Vega, whose Facel Vega Facellia was so unreliable that Facel could no longer afford the warranty claims. The company closed down permanently in 1964.
Apart from the grille, the Weber looks awesome. I would certainly prefer it over something truly lacking design such as a 996, or any modern mass market car of 1990 onwards.
Pretty sure the Muntz Jet contributed to one of eccentric entrepreneur Madman Muntz' bankruptcies. Then there are the less obvious ones. The Pacer doomed AMC even though they continued on for another decade +. It was supposed to have GM's Wankel engine, but GM killed the engine due to poor emissions (it was also to have powered the Monza). AMC was never able to recoup their losses and all future cars were just variants of the ancient Hornet. The Henry J killed Kaiser domestic automotive production, though they continued to build Jeeps from their purchase of Willys until 1971. They were the only major US maker without a V8, but Kaiser thought developing a new sub compact in the early 50's was a better use of his R&D $. It wasn't.
GM also balked at the last minute on the rotary engine due to Wankel wanting $50 million to license the building of the engine to GM. I remember looking at a Mazda rotary wagon about 1974. I sure did want it!
Thanks Jack for a very interesting video. The DeLorean also intrigues me, A former customer of mine has one under a cover in a barn not far from where I live, which I saw last year. I sat in it some years ago and really liked it amongst some other interesting cars that he once had, including a Jensen Interceptor, Mark X Jaguar, Sunbeam Alpine etc. Sadly only the DeLorean is left unloved and hasn't been run for many years. Regards, Bob M. South Wales.
as a PS note... the Delorean is incredibly underpowered... they had promised a turbo and possible V8 engine in the future but they went under... today, some car builders here have done some complete rebuilds of Deloreans with modern rear engine GM LS V8 engines...salvaged from front wheel drive LS engine GM cars repurposed to fit in the rear wheel engine bays...these cars are what the Delorean SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!!
The Panther Six ruined the Panther Company. It had a 8-litre Cadillac engine which was twin-turbocharged. It produced 600 HP, and the topspeed was 200 MPH (330 km/h)....... Only one was made in 1977, and priced at 40.000 GBP........The second one was made from auctioned off parts in 1983....
You left off the weirdest thing about it, why it was called the 6. Just checked howmanyleft, a few Kalistas, no J72s, Rios,, but there are a couple of Solos.
In Australia we had the Holden camira. It was an absolutely horrible car didn't send Holden bankrupt but did cause a massive black mark on Holden. Gearbox issues engine issues would literally rust away to nothing if used near the beach.
27 describes the DeLorean as being "a little underpowered". Me - Checks Wikipedia and finds 130hp / 97kW. Even by 1980's standards, that seems like it should be "criminally underpowered".
NSU R080 literally, ended the company, it no longer existed, even in name afterwards Owners used to wave their fingers at each other denoting how many warranty engines they had had.
I have owned several GSes and driven a GS Birotor. To me it was a brilliant car. The ultra smooth Wankel engine complemeted the comfort of the GS very well. And the GS chassis was quite capable of coping with the extra power. Sadly all Wankel engined cars and bikes failed. Because of a little bit of petrol... If you love riding/driving why care about a bit higher consumption. Even today! By the way in 1973 there was no real oil crisis. There was a plot by the Arabs to raise the price. To me that is not a crisis...
Hey all!! Sorry for the odd camera angles.. was experimenting but it seems it wasn’t a success! Next vids will use sigle angle!
Could you please explain why you decided to carry out that "experiment"?
We as viewers notice this because it is so distracting,annoying,irritating and it just generally removes the viewer.
Meaning?.
We will unsubscribe.
You’ll find that it’s the edit: you just need to make sure you’re always looking into a camera (I think) so a two camera setup is fine but you fix it in the edit…
@@nikamota yes, that’s what I thought was strange - I think we like to be looked at by the speaker, hence my comment about the edit
Where is the bmc mini?
It looks as if there had been a bright light beaming down on your left, forcing you to look away from it; no big deal (at least for us), though. Also, please see my comment about the 1962 Plymouth Fury/Dodge Coronett, two cars that almost single-handedly threw Chrysler into bankruptcy in 1962.
I went to DeLorean and got a passenger seat ride at Dunmurry, Belfast in 1981. Could have got a job, I was wary of the £10k salary and the political stuff going on at the time, thought the car had promise, and when Back To The Future came out I was gobsmacked!
Yer guy in the video forgets that thanks to the film it became an iconic car
I was told years ago that the reason they chose a DMC 12 was by the mid 80’s the infamy of both John DeLorean and the company had made it a joke vehicle.
The movie changed the image of the car that would have otherwise been just footnote in the history of failed sport cars manufacturers.
If you want to know just how aerodynamically advanced the Citroen GS was just consider that Toyota used the same basic shape 30 years later for the 2nd gen Prius.
With the rubberband engine earodynamics meant nothing. Slower than a Lada?
And for the 2004 Citröen C4
@@Santor- that comment makes absolutely no sense.
What went wrong then? The GS looked nice, the Prius looked (and performed) like a wet fart.
Well.. if a shape Is copied doesn't mean Is done so for aerodynamics, also, if a shape Is "similar" Is vastly different aerodynamic-wise. Also using a Prius as "example of good aerodynamics" Is beyond ridiculous
Cizetta V16-T. You thought the Ferrari engine was a bit complicated? Try two Lamborghini Urraco V8's essentially welded together, 6 litres, 64 valves, 8 camshafts, 2 seperate fuel injection systems. They built 10 of the beasties before they went bust.
Why mankind wants to bother themselves with complex garbage amazes me.
I remember that car from a magazine back in the day. It was put against Ferrari F40, Porsche 959 and some other one too that I can't remember at this time.
@@Quusikko Probably a Diablo.
I always thought it was an ugly car, looking like a Testarossa rear ended a Diablo so hard it just became one vehicle.
I don't think the GS Birotor was thé cause of Citroëns bankruptcy, but it definitely gave it a big push. The market was steering towards a very standardised concept of what a car is at the time: a dashboard with round fixed dials with rotating needles, self-cancelling indicators on a stalk, wipers on another stalk, a chunky steering wheel with non-self-centering power steering, watercooled inline or V engines, entirely new designs every decade or sooner... Citroën was far away from that concept with all of their cars at the time and enthousiasts alone weren't enough of a client base to keep a car company afloat. The same thing happened with other manufacturers as well: DAF, Alfa Romeo, Lancia, Saab, even Volvo...
You want an example of a car that actually is solely responsible for the demise of its manufacturer? The Renault Avantime: First Renault took the Espace from Matra, then they gave them a very niche concept that couldn't and didn't sell well instead, and to make matters worse they made a car aimed at the exact same people (the Vel Satis) and put it in the same showrooms. The result: bye bye Matra.
The SM played a much bigger role in Citroen's bankruptcy.
The history of the DeLorean is well documented and includes pretty much any problem, an upcoming manufacturer can stumble across, starting from
*) financing troubles, the pressure of the british Thatcher gov, to the fake CIA drug deal,
*) inexperienced and non-skilled workers (who Thatcher wanted to provide jobs by this investment) resulting in quality problems (compare Alfa with their south italy plant for the Alfasud),
*) and a per-se proven V6 (used in many other european limos), but not yet matching the expectations of the whole impression and not getting a turbo version in time.
Na, it is well documented, he was a crook from way back.
My parents had 2 CITROEN GS. Fisrt one, a beige "Special" model, with the smallest engine, the 1015 cc and the, a white one, the 1220 cc "Club" model. Good memories in them as a kid !
My first can was a GSA 1300 n pale green.
I have 2 CX's, a 75' CX2000 Club originally in blue, and an '87 CX25GTI in metalic maroon.
Nothing comes close to citroen ride quality and handling.
The original Austin/BL Mini (wonderful car, I've owned several) cost more to manufacture than it was sold for.
Ford took a Mini back in the sixties, dismantled it and realised the truth.
Nobody told Austin/BL. Their huge sales success contributed to killing the company.
And that's why the CITROEN CX never had a 6 cylinders engine (unlike the RENAULT 30,the TALBOT TAGORA or the PEUGEOT 604 for other french car manufacturers ), because the engine bay in the CX was designed to fit that rotary engine, and not a 6 cylinders ...
AFAIR, the original idea was , to fit in a Boxer, but the engine bay was too narrow.
The "pre-stage" of the CX, the SM came with a Maserati V6.
Very interesting. I didn't know that, having owned a brown CX 2200 (or was it a 2.4?)
@@manoman0 Cool! My parents had, from 1984 until 1987 or maybe it was 1988, an used 1977 CITROEN CX 2000 "Super". They dropped it for a then brand new PEUGEOT 405 GLD
J'ai possédé un petit morceau d'histoire sans le savoir ! Dans les années 80 j'ai acheté aux enchères une Talbot tagora V6 qui était une édition spéciale préparée par Danielson grand préparateur Français, acquise pour une somme dérisoire, personne n'en voulait et pourtant cette auto était géniale, châssis,freinage, moteur incroyable, seule la consommation était démesurée ! Les vitesses atteintes sur autoroute à l'époque m'aurait emmené directement en prison aujourd'hui ! Pour la création de ma société je l'ai vendue à un collectionneur 5 ans plus tard .....j'en garde un merveilleux souvenir
The only alternative engine that has been shown to fit in the CX engine bay is a Toyota - a fair few conversions were done in Thailand.
A well known case of an owner losing controle of their company is what happened to Andre Citroen.
At the time, he was an industry magnet, on par with the likes of Henry Ford. Citroen was a huge manufacturer of helical gears, and a pionere in mechnical technology and mass production, one of the pillars of the French economy.
When they decided to develope front wheel drive for the automobile, the development of the CV joint was a huge drain on the companies finances. Eventually Citroen succeded and in 1935 produced the highly inovative Citroen Taction Avant, but it was too late for the company, they were bought out by Michilen.
Today we all drive cars using Andre Citroens invention, pionered in the 1930s.
Spot on. The Traction Avant was the first in a long line of fantastic cars, all the way up to the C6. The greatest car the world has ever seen, was the DS.
I always wanted a red Vector as a kid and to be honest if I won the Euro I think I'd still buy one ! Great content as always Jack 👍
If you'd put a BMW badge on the nose of the Webber, it'd slot seamlessly straight into the modern BMW line-up as the latest Z4!
DeLorean Motor Company was purchased some time ago and is now back afloat, and their designers have designed a new Electric DeLorean, named the Alpha 5 if I recall. The original production parts, are in their warehouse.
It's based here in Houston, TX. They bought all the original parts, and even Tshirts and hot wheels
The Citroen GS was a fantastic automobile,had an ultra-compact air cooled flat four engine,it was way ahead of its time.
The Vector W-8 was very impressive in person
The GS also couldn't hold a candle to its predecessor, the CX. Many Citrophiles (as Citroën enthousiasts are called) saw the GS for what it was: a bad compromise between the best of what Citroën had to offer (the CX) and a far more normal car.
Sadly for Citroën they kind of failed at achieving anything with the GS: although it had some of the almost patented Citroën quirkiness, it had almost nothing of the quality of the more expensive CX. Even worse the GS lacked the advantages that a "normal" car had over the complicated CX: being inexpensive, simple to maintain and reliable. So where Citroën thought that with the GS they were delivering the best of both worlds, in reality they delivered a car that combined the worst of both worlds.
@@tjroelsma The predecessor was the DS not the CX and it was twice the price,the GS was affordable to the common man and had a lot of that Citroen engineering brilliance,specially the engine was a masterpiece,my father was addicted to big and heavy cruisers,he had a monster 1973 Marquis and he rented a GS in France and was impressed with the car.
I was there and i remember.
Look at a picture of a 73' Marquis and you'll see it is a completely different type of car.
@@peter455sd I stand corrected, I thought the CX came out before the GS, my bad.
Jack. What about the Tucker Auto company? Outstanding car and design. Many amazing tech advances. Driven into bankruptcy by the big 3 US auto makers manipulating the US Securities and Exchange Commission.
More of a story than truth
Love the fact you used the reference Doozy to talk about the Webber. Doozy was used by Duesenberg cars in the slogan ‘It’s a Doozy’ and they themselves were dissolved and ended up in the history books.
Blimey! Didn't know that that was where that word was from. If you're around Chester Business Park (UK) there's one sitting in the MBNA foyer.
The Auburn/Cord/Duesenberg Museum in Auburn Indiana is worth a visit. Get close to a 34 Doozy and you will surely understand where the phrase came from!
I read an article on the Vector W8 in either Motor Trend or Road & Track when the car was released that explained the three speed transmission. At the time the car was released, the only automotive transmission that could handle the car's power was the GM TH425 transaxle first introduced in the Oldsmobile Toronado in 1966. That particular unit was very overengineered and was also used in GMC's Motorhome. The three speeds were set across the car's range, allowing the torque converter to fill in the gaps. As a side note, I had a 1970 Pontiac Firebird with a 350 cid engine and a TH350 transmission and it drove well with three speeds; some GM cars used the Powerglide tranny, which had two speeds and worked fine.
I think the GS birotor was never intended to be a serious attempt to build a mainstream car to attract volume sales. It was really a test bed for the planned 3 rotor engine which was intended to power the forthcoming CX. After NSU’s debacle with the Ro 80 and the severe technical problems which soon became apparent with the Wankel engine Citroen were forced to abandon this plan and had to resort to installing the old engine from the DS. This, combined with the failure of the SM owing to the fuel crisis, was enough to push Citroen into insolvency. Interestingly, before the final merger/takeover with Peugeot there was a serious discussion about Citroen merging with FIAT but I believe the French government pulled the plug on that happening, they were determined that Citroen would remain French. Why interesting? Because the entire PSA group has now merged with FIAT and its other brands to form Stellantis.
Another car that doomed it's maker!
The Facel Vega Facellia
Facel Vega had been successful in the 1950s making large luxurious GT cars sporting Chrysler hemi V-8 engines. Then the decision was made to produce a small sports cars, using a 4 cylinder of their own design. This engine was an engineering disaster, with almost all of them being replaced under warranty, creating such a massive financial hole that it swallowed up the company.
BMW seemed to have taken some style notes from the Weber, ;)
🤣🤣🤣 very true!!
Damn! You beat me to it! I bet they could make the Weber uglier, no question.
Apparently there are still some Citroen GS Bi-Rotors driving around in France. The Dutch company Van Veen bought the glut of engines left over at the supplier & fitted them to a motorcycle, the OCR 1000.
I have this fantasy of a GS Bi-Rotor body fitted with a 6 cylinder engine based on the GS flat four. Not sure if the engine bay is long enough, but the crank is pressed up, and it has separate iron cylinders.
The DS was originally supposed to have a flat six engine in front of the wheels. My GS-6 would have achieved a lot of Bertoni's ideas....
@@pashakdescilly7517 or just fit a Porsche 911 engine 😉
There's a couple in the UK I believe as well. I have seen 1 in storage and the engine from another used as an in house ornament
Great! The Vector certainly brought back memories from the 80's - at the time I thought it was the coolest car ever, much better than Lamborghini or Ferrari.
I think Citroen’s troubles dated from the huge development costs of the CX coinciding with the 1973 oil crisis. The Birotor really didn’t help you’re right but there were other factors… Great stuff though, Citroen made three of the best cars ever, the GS, CX and SM!
They made the best car ever the DS.
Indeed they also by that time had several car brands absorbed and lost money on and did silly projects like building a helicopter (also using the wankel). I did ride in a GS rotor once (co-developed with NSU btw) with my dad who worked for citroen for 50 years. But we drove home in his own citroen ds a car i prefered by a mile. You did forget a few great cars.. The DS and Traction Avant... the CX was never one of my fav except in the newer design and if it was in the extra long wheel base prestige... for me the shape looked better on that.
I drove a Citroen GSA (paid for by insurance, while my* car was being repaired after being rear-ended).
-Absolutely loved it !
But when I tried to rent one a couple of years later, they didnt have them anymore.
Apparently they were too much hassle... So different from their other models (to repair) & stuff along those lines.
-Cheers from Iceland 🇮🇸
@Giles Halliwell "Great stuff though, Citroen made three of the best cars ever, the GS, CX and SM!". You forget the Traction Avant, ahead of its time by decades: no chassis but monocoque, independent suspension, torsion bars instead of coiled springs, front wheel drive. The other HUGE innovation car is - again - the Ciroen DS : hydropneumatic suspension, unsurpassed road handling, adjustable height and motorised Jack lift, directive headlights and so much more.
@@johnjeanb You’re absolutely right! I didn’t mean to dismiss any of Citroen’s earlier genius! I should have made it clearer that as LJK Setright stated in Car that those three cars were Citroen’s 1970s “tour de force”! Citroen are still, historically, the most interesting car manufacturer…
The Cord Beverly became the Hupmobile Skylark and the Graham Hollywood. For all three companies, this was their last car model (although Graham continued on as a business, they didn't produce cars, only farm equipment).
Graham-Paige eventually was folded into Kaiser-Fraser. . . .
The birotor wasn't the only culprit in Citroen's bankruptcy, the SM was it's accomplice.
Anyway, they had a history of bad financial management.
they were also financing Maserati at the time and in particular the Quattroporte II in which only 13 were made.
If you have to go, then the Citroen Maserati isn't the worst way to fold.
The Vector received a lot more money from investors than from the lawsuits...The problem (I knew Jerry) was that he put more energy into getting investment money than building cars.(He built 18) The styling revolutionized car design as much as the countach did . . . .
The GS did not bankrupt Citroën!
Jack, the NSU RO80 that you showed also bankrupted NSU who were rescued by VW.
I missed that!! Thanks!
The moral is not to make rotary cars.
@@nickrulez809765 : thankfully Mazda ignored that moral
In fact the acquisition of Audi/NSU saved VW.😆
I like the 5/1600 Baja on your shelf. We raced those 40 years ago and you can't get more fun for the money.
Apparently the magnificent roadster by BMW, the 507, nearly ! bankrupted the company.
So much went into the (very good) engineering of the car and it was always sold at a loss.
This was at a time when the company did not! really have the financial "clout"...
(word?)
...to dabble in such things.
So instead of making a cheap-to-produce car for people to get mobile in the aftermath of WW2, they produced this now lusted-after, wonderful, roadster 😁
-Cheers from Iceland 🇮🇸
God tier car.
Pontiac Aztek deserves a dishonorable mention for being both trash bin ugly AND a massive drag on the company's finances, to the point where Pontiac was itself axed in a GM reorganisation.
That was only 1 body style. Same chassis was used on many others so not really a flop.
@@mikeholland1031 Buick Rendezvous are still common. Cant remember the last Aztek I saw
There was the Renault Avantime, which ultimately bankrupted Matra.
The father of a high school friend of mine had a successful car lease company in the mid 80's. He decided on the Maserati Biturbo to be their top of the range executive car. My friend, wherever he is now, still owes me a few dozen cafeteria lunches.
40 years after the 2L biturbo everyone uses it.
Speaking of going broke from a car; I once looked for a used Bentley convertible. It was a Azure ...white leather interior really a beauty. My belly screamed YES but my brain pointed a gun on me and said NO! xD
I still adore the Vector and the DeLorean...
Poor Jerry...
If only we could build a new Vector done right...!
I remember working part time after school, as a petrol pump attendant, pre self service, for BP National in the late 1970s , yes the Smurf garages! A lady I worked with drove me home in her Mazda RX2 which had the Wankel rotary engine. Could not believe the excellent performance with incredible smoothness. The lady said she could get 30mpg under 60 mph but anything over that it drunk fuel like it was going out of fashion . Apparently they used to suffer with their seals , but it must have made other manufacturers take notice at the time.
There was a common mod for the RX2, which was to disable the rev limiter (I was told it was in the distributor rotor arm).
It was supposed to be good for nearly 100mph in 2nd gear, but I guess the seals and the fatigue life of the Wankel rotor would all suffer from that treatment :-)
Had a 1974 Mazda 13B RX-4 in the early 80s as my first car. Great performance, surprising reliability/longevity, great fun to drive by the standards of the day …… 17mpg (but in Australia at the time who cared), which was a lot for the size of the car and similar to what was achieved at the time by my father’s land barge Valiant Regal 770 with a 265ci (4.3L) 4-barrelled carby Hemi I6 and 3speed auto.
Hell, I built 2 1986 Pontiac Firebird T-roof cars (Knight Rider) that both topped out at 210 MPH using the 454 V8,(I ought to know. I outran 7 Ky State Police Cruisers (Ford Crown Vics with the 460 interceptor engines) driving one in a Panic run from Hazard Ky to Lexington KY when my mother was dying. I made the 113 miles run in way less than a hour. I later sold both cars to a collector who wanted clones of KITT. Although I wanted to keep 1, I had Mom's medical bills and funeral to pay for. I needed the money. I now drive a 1999 Ford Ranger Pickup (220000 miles powered by a stock 2.5 liter 4 cylinder engine) that runs on gasoline and hydrogen. (HHO Dry Cell Generator under the hood). Fantastic mileage and has NEVER failed to start and run.
I understand that the De Lorean body presses ended up being used to anchor salmon cages off Co Galway, Ireland. I have seen several De Loreans and it is a pity the project didnt have more success.
My uncle owned an NSU Ro80. That vehicle had nothing to do with Audi. Later, Audi bought NSU and killed it off immediately.
I know a lot of people will say the Multipla for the ugliest car , but I think it’s a design icon that will eventually be celebrated for its clever quirky-ness . Besides have you ever seen a Ssangyong Rodius ? That’s a proper ugly boat
When the original Multipla were on the road sixty years ago, me and my Ma thought it was the ugliest car ever. Our Italian neighbours had one. They went over the Alps with two kids. They welded cigarettes into the back of the car when driving to Italy. On the way home to Switzerland, they did the same with liquor. Teday those cars go for a crazy amount of money. The most expensive one was sold for over 80 000Sfr (or US$).
The second gen was really an ugly duckling but actually it was a very clever car. My wife wanted one. But this never happened. My daughter has a third gen car and she LOVES it.
The Rodius looks like a car penned by two designers, in the midst of an acrimonious divorce, from each other……..
@@beatglauser9444 You should see Vilebrequin's "Milletipla" with a 1000 hp engine (V8 turbocharged from a Corvette C6) !
Nice Tamiya Sand Scorcher
Thanks Jack, interesting set of cars, & 2 I'd never heard of!
It's not 'costs' for the Influenzo, it's 'investments'!, doesn't sound so bad that way! You'd have only spent the money on getting into mischief anyway!
I knew the first V8 model of the Vector. And journalists made a big fuzz about it.
I remember that a car magazine could test one. Guess what happened: It burnt to the ground!
Citroën was cruising for a bruising around that time - so overextended: several concurrent models in overlapping market sectors, CX/SM/GS development costs, US safety standards crippling the SM, energy crisis, French foreign policy on nuclear testing caused negative sentiment toward French products in export markets. A shame, because their designs were truly stunning.
The rotary engine is so troublesome, that no car maker uses it now.
Citroens were always ugly.
I was bankrupted twice by cars. A Rover 2000 was a very comfortable sweet handling ride that broke on every ride. My BMW X3 cost more than $1 per km to keep on the road, not counting fuel, oil changes, and tires.
I was a car mechanic C & G qualified from 1970 till my final exam 4yrs later my first experience with Citroen tech was parking a car with electronically controlled brakes bad enough the GS had hydraulic suspension pressure bled into the braking system It all worked but as a descendant of Vikings I understood why we Brits find annoying the French a fun thing to do
Hey Jack, interesting story though I have to say I quite like the look of the "Swiss precision" Weber ( pronounced Wayburr??, as you are always particular with the "italian's"??) sports car especially the 2013 version which looks different again and really sexy. Interesting enough Weber Sports-cars still have an active website so maybe things are just "shelved" Great and entertaining video, thanks!
On the DeLorean: At the time, the British govenment's interest was to boost employment in conflict battered northern Ireland (DeLorean cars was based in Belfast). John DeLorean tapped into the seam.
Two cars that nearly destroyed Chrysler were the 1962 Plymouth Fury/Dodge Coronett/Polara, which had been drastically downsized, based on a false rumor about GM's plans, from their 1961 predecessors, leaving Dodge and Plymouth dealers left with little to sell and angry customers unwilling to pay "more money for less car". Chrysler only survived by rushing a stripped-down version of the Chrysler Newport into production as the Dodge Custom 880, and repositioning the other models as mid-sized cars. The cars actually served Chrysler well as mid-sized models and the chassis and drivetrains stayed in production all the way up to 1980 as the R-body Dodge St. Regis and Chrysler New Yorker. Ironically, those cars, which were loved, particularly as police cruisers and were considered full-sized with the tall, boxy bodies Chrysler had put on them for 1979, were only forced out of production because the company was once again on the brink of bankruptcy and the U.S. government made the discontinuation of all full-sized cars, no matter how profitable, a condition for the ensuing bailout.
Hi Jack, i have been watching your videos and enjoyed, most of them are very interesting. I see you are also a fan of Tamiya, the addictive hobby. Love all your classic car contents. Keep them coming.
Thanks Raymond!! Yes, love Rc cars too!
My father had a DeLorean with an automatic transmission. It was everything a sports car of that time was typical of. Tight hard suspension, under powered and hard to see around the car when sitting in the driver's seat. He loved it. Unfortunately, it was going to the deal for repairs all the time and had to go away.
The Renault Avantime bankrupted Matra. I loved the J11 and the J63 Espace, such weirdly great cars. I bumped mine (slowly and sideways) into a guardrail and the dent just popped back. The 140hp engine just sounded so happy, 8.5 liters consumption at 150 on the Italian Autostrada. 7 people plus some creatively packed luggage. One of the best cars to park, which could carry something. I ruined it unfortunately and still miss it every now and then.
I have been thinking about Rover & Tesla design similarities recently. Rover kept the same car design all be-it with minor cosmetic changes for years while other brands would design and release over two generations of completely redesigned models. Tesla models look exactly the same to me no matter which model you go for. Design becomes stale and looking at other makers offerings such as KIA it leaves Tesla looking outdated already. The only manufacturers to get away with having every model look like the previous gen is Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini etc because of what they are. Tesla is in the family car market a completely different set of rules apply. It will be interesting to see what happens with Tesla as new ultra modern design alternative EV’s are bought to market.
I don't think Tesla is overly concerned about its cars being stale. It has been updating the car under the skin along with the factories to build them at a fast clip. So long as the current cars are selling why switch. It looks like there will be enough batteries to build the cyber truck and semi in the next year. Then the robo taxi. Should be interesting to see how well it can pull these off.
Speculating here. But my guess is that as sales of current models slow new models will be built in new factories so as not to cut current production. If Tesla is working on replacements for current models it would be wise not to show the concept designs or cars as it would reduce demand for the current cars. Just the word of newer and better batteries is doing that.
The NSU Ro-80 springs to my mind.
Wonderful car, but the initial teething problems of its Wankel engine produced a ton of costly warranty claims and killed the car commercial appeal, to the point that NSU had to be absorbed by Volkswagen.
On the other hand, Volkswagen owes much to the engineers of NSU and their proficiency with designing moder FWD cars - in many ways, the Ro-80 was the mother of AUDI 100 and VW Passat, great grandmother of Scirocco and Golf.
Not the Audi :) They had pretty decent fwd cars before Mercedes sold Auto Union to VW in 1966. NSU and Auto Union formed Audi NSU Auto Union in 1969. The VW K70 came out in 1970 and had not much in common with the then current Audi 100. When VW stopped production of the K 70 they dumped the engine, too and used Audi engines in Passat, Golf, Scirocco and Polo (the latter was a Audi 50 with smaller engine and cheaper interior)
@@VolkerHett - Thanks. It appears I ignored many details... I stand corrected.
@@woongah My dad had the Audi 100 back then and his best friend the K 70 and a NSU Ro 80, too. The Ro 80 is still on the road 50 years later! But it's a garage queen and sees the road once or twice a year to be trailered to old-timer events 😀
Nsu s were all rear engined apart from the ro80 and were fabulous but expensive in other countries like the UK due to import taxes etc this in turned resulted in bl and Ford cornering the English market and look what happened to them due to shoddy build quality now we buy German cars and make them rich
Legend Industries was another casualty of the DeLorean mess. They were working on twin turbocharging the PRV V6 when it all went under. They had a fairly successful business turbocharging Fiat Spiders in the early 80s.
"110 litres, could you imagine to fill that up now?" - I don't have to imagine much, my Turbo R has a 108l tank...
My f150 has a 37 gallon tank. I NEVER fill it!!
A Lotus Esprit once ruined me so that I had to drive old Citroen CX for some time. Great cars, though...
Fiat Multiplas, Nissan Duke and anything - and I really mean everything - ever produced by Ssang Yong.
Ah the Sierra, one moment in time they were everywhere, and suddenly they disappeared from the face of they earth like dinosaurs!
Have you lately seen a Sierra? Chances are that if you ever see one, it will be a Cosworth, because of the collector investment value.
Sierra, Man and machine in perfect harmony..........yea right. My No2 at work had one, an 1800. We left a Watford site heading for near Kings Cross, my car not being motorway suitable. He roared off, onto the M1, instantly a spec............... Yet I was the next car behind as we both turned into the office site. Oh, my car?? A Fiat 126 650cc twin cylinder air cooled!!!
Oi, Spoiler warning.... 😜
Fantastic pictures of the GS and other cars
My father had two GS's both with the larger engine of 1220cc and 65bhp, which was capable of cruising all day fully loaded at 80mph on the German Autobahns. The smaller GS of 1015cc didn't have a red line on the tach and put out 54bhp IIRC but had to be kept on the boil. It was a super car on smooth roads with few bends because to hustle it along winding lanes required an element of faith due to the poor damping and lack of feedback.
The biggest problem with the DeLorean was the choice of a stainless steel body au naturel that many punters questioned. It was also built in Northern Ireland that did not have a history (or competence?) for building motorcars. Overall, DeLorean himself was not suited to set up and run a small volume car manufacturing business and although he was a former US car royal with GM he seemed to be in the mold of all US car execs who fail at building or competing against cars from Europe viz. Ford's failure with JRL and Aston Martin, and Volvo, Chevy's failure with Vauxhall and Saab, most of whom apart from Saab went on to succeed when US shackles were released. The DeLorean today is seen as a classic with a large service industry keeping the cars on the road especially in the US. Primarily, the car wasn't a failure it was the management.
Hi Jack, can you please follow up with the Dutch Spyker bankruptcy and the connection to Saab (and General Motors and the Chinese Consortium).etc?
Spyker looked so promising why did they buy Saab? Kind of like a poor mans Pagani
Roots, the Hillman Imp, made in Glasgow, by ship builders, out of girders, and run on Irn Bru. Or the flip side, a video about cars that were good and sold well, but were finished of by poor management and bad decisions. BTW, I wonder what you'd call a person or group of rotary engine enthusiasts?
Rootes Group didn't go bankrupt though, Lord Rootes died in 1964 and his son sold off 30% to Chrysler for a funding package. Chrysler increased its share to 45% in 1966 and became a majority shareholder in '67. A new company was formed: Rootes Motors Limited - Chrysler UK in 1970. All sold off to Peugeot in 1978.
May I nominate the 1973~74 Leyland P76 sedan, which for dubious distinction was the only post-war passenger car to wear the brand name of Leyland (since the pre-WW2 Leyland 8). It also bankrupted Leyland Australia within 18 months. With honourable mention to the related (and ultra rare) Leyland Force 7 coupe. Btw I've had the pleasure to own two P76 V8s, they drive great!
The NSU Ro80 was so unreliable that it bankrupted the company, and became part of VW. Their similar car designed around a piston engine was almost ready for production, and got sold as the VW K70. Unfairly unloved.
I should amend that comment to say that the Ro80's rotary engine was desperately unreliable. The rest of the car was advanced and well-engineered.
....or fairly unloved...
@@pashakdescilly7517 : the operative word is "was". It isn't now, because the technology was improved over the years, ultimately by Mazda. NSU itself had solved the rotor tip seal problem by 1970/71.
@@smhorse I remember that in the early and mid '70s, there was a thriving trade in fitting alternative engines into the Ro-80. The Ford V-4 was popular, Autocar did a review of a converted machine. Unrefined and anaemic, but I suppose it was a suitably short engine.
Vector fans generally don't consider the M12 a Vector in any meaningful sense. The coachwork is loosely based on Wiegert's WX3, but the powertrain was in direct contradiction to the principles Wiegert held to. The Interior - and particularly the aircraft-inspired controls - Wiegert worked so hard on in the W2/W8 (and largely kept in the WX3) had been ditched entirely. In essence, the M12 was little more than a kit car that vaguely resembled the unique and head-turning W8.
It is worth noting that Vector under Wiegert produced 1 W2 as the prototype, and 17 production W8s along with 2 pre-production W8s - while "Vector" under Megatech produced only 17 M12s total, including 3 (or four, by some reports) pre-production cars - and one production car was the one sent to Lamborghini!
Both Road & Track and Car & Driver tested the W8 - Car & Driver had mechanical difficulties and didn't like the car, while Road & Track were quite impressed. Production models have not been noted for mechanical difficulties beyond those expected for their age.
On the other hand, AutoWeek and CarThrottle tested the M12 - with CarThrottle describing it as "a botch job", and AutoWeek awarded it with the title "The worst car ever tested by AutoWeek"!
In short, it wasn't the Wiegert-designed car that put the company into bankruptcy, but incompetent management, shortcuts, poor design and execution of a makeshift copycat car, and probably some embezzlement by a Megatech principal.
High fuel consumption, high oil consumption, poor emissions, rotor sealing issues. The obvious disadvantages and engineering & warranty costs of the Wankle engine caused severe financial damage to NSU, Mazda Suzuki and American Motors. After initial investment General Motors was wise enough to dump the Wankle.
Wankel.
I like the Webber design, of course it could do with a little refinement but compared to cars of the 2000's it has some great styling.
1:30 when saying a decimal number, you don't say it like you would a regular number in front of the decimal point. In other words, saying "nought point thirty one" is incorrect. The correct way to say it "nought point three one". You say each digit individually.
Yeah, I cringed when I head him saying it that way.
That may be correct for decimals, but from experience, calling out long numbers in pairs eg thirty one, not, three one, produces a lot less errors transcribing at the other end, and is fractionally quicker.
Thanks for this (and your other) video. Truly fascinating!
Thank you for watching Paul!
Check out the Fisker Karma.. 2011-2012, the sports "hybrid" that never really made it and shortly after their sole battery supplier filed for bankruptcy, so did Fisker. They had some really risqué adverts in 2011/2012 though always featuring a pretty model in stockings and suspenders posing in (or next to) the car.
I had the honour once to see it in Belgium.
Love that early Tamiya model in the background.
Lotus was always on the verge of bankruptcy as Mr. Chapman always sold just enough cars to fund their racing efforts. It wasn't so much the DeLorean deal that made Lotus file for bankruptcy as it was the death of Mr. Chapman who left the company in such a state after his death, the existing executives didn't want to play the financial dance Mr. Chapman was willing to do, and wanted time to properly fund and save the company. Doesn't mean DeLorean didn't play a part, but it was really a coincidence and minor part. Mr. Chapman after all took $17 million from the company through a secret exchange with DeLorean and that money completely disappeared without a trace.
The Facellia bankrupted Facel Vega maker. Instead of having a foreign engine on it like prior models, they decided to build a home-made engine, which was a total fiasco...
Very interesting and enjoyably presented, thanks!
Thank you for watching Barry!
Good video but it is not mentioned that the Delorean had a special feature. With the addition of the optional temporal flux capacitor it could displace temporally in addition to physically. Those capacitors are extremely rare today as are the 1.2 Jiggawatt "Mr. Fusion" brand generators.
😆😆😆😆😆
It would be a LONG list of cars that have bankrupted their owners!
.... practically ANY race car, for a start.....
That last one, Webber TooFastForYou or whatever 😉, looks like an elephant has sat on it 😂
I don’t think Chrysler & Mercedes went bust after their disastrous ‘collaboration/integration’ but a big loss-maker that epitomised their coming together was the Chrysler Crossfire SRT6. Actually a very fine car in my opinion, it didn’t sell successfully. Utilising the former SLK production bed, the Crossfire was an SLK with predominantly Mercedes parts. Great styling from SRT, a 3.2litre supercharged AMG engine & put together by Karman in Germany.
Then there was the ‘bickering’ between Daimler & SRT regarding the top speed & power numbers between the 2 companies’ flagship cars. The Crossfire SRT6 threatened to be cheaper & faster than the top Merc (with a similar 354 HP) so they agreed not to mention this (but put a 200mph speedometer in the dashboard of the SRT6 nonetheless).
A possible future classic? I reckon so.
My grandad, a bankruptcy lawyer in NI, oversaw the winding up of Delorean.
Loving the Tamiya sand scorcher. Love to see a running video of that.
The sand scorcher is the icon among rc cars. An Tamiya offers spare parts for a toy from 1979. The sand scorcher lives forever.
There’s loads on YT!
Maybe add the Canadian Bricklin to the list. Went bankrupt in Canada and then again as "the American sportscar" after being brought to the US.
the Bricklin was built in Saint John, New Brunswick, Canada. It has the distinction of almost bringing down the Conservative government led by Richard Hatfield, who was the provincial Premier.
@@aldenfloyd5432 Yep. It was a cool car, but had build quality issues and production problems. I remember the ads in the US after the company was sold claiming, "The new American sportscar."
Which way did the styling influence flow between the Vector and Lamborghini?
Vector is America's pinnacle of car engineering and design; the most truly wonderful example of American ingenuity and capability - zero.
Thanks to "back to the Future" the DeLorean became famous. Of course DeLoreans arrest for selling cocaine didn't help the company either.
Interesting topic, thumps up!
hydro nuematic load leveling suspension wasn't new in the 1980s some American Cars have had versions of them since the 50's/60s or even some lower cost full size cars did as well I.E. Chevrolet Impala/Caprice etc. my dad drove a used 1984 Caprice sedan for several years when I was growing up
Great video. I did think of the Panther 6 which isn't quite in the same category but similar.
Ugly? Yes. Ugliest? No. That honor goes to the Tesla Cybertruck, followed by the Pontiac Aztek. Just my humble opinion.
Tesla cancelled the cybertruck to the best of my knowledge
@@enricol5974 pretty sure that was an April fools joke.
@@ProfessorOzone maybe , just checked : cybertruck will be delivered only in USA for the time being .
Production will start in 2023 .
The
Well, Citroen got rescued, so the company didn't go under. A company that did go under because of a bad car design was Facel Vega, whose Facel Vega Facellia was so unreliable that Facel could no longer afford the warranty claims. The company closed down permanently in 1964.
Apart from the grille, the Weber looks awesome. I would certainly prefer it over something truly lacking design such as a 996, or any modern mass market car of 1990 onwards.
If you think a 996 lacks design there is something wrong with you 🤣 it was the last 911 sized 911. New ones are gigantic tanks and weigh too much.
The grille came from a sewage outlet...................
Pretty sure the Muntz Jet contributed to one of eccentric entrepreneur Madman Muntz' bankruptcies.
Then there are the less obvious ones. The Pacer doomed AMC even though they continued on for another decade +. It was supposed to have GM's Wankel engine, but GM killed the engine due to poor emissions (it was also to have powered the Monza). AMC was never able to recoup their losses and all future cars were just variants of the ancient Hornet.
The Henry J killed Kaiser domestic automotive production, though they continued to build Jeeps from their purchase of Willys until 1971. They were the only major US maker without a V8, but Kaiser thought developing a new sub compact in the early 50's was a better use of his R&D $. It wasn't.
Also , Malcolm BRICKLIN.
🚗🙂
@@jeffking4176 They should call the Bricklin the Canadian Delorean.
GM also balked at the last minute on the rotary engine due to Wankel wanting $50 million to license the building of the engine to GM. I remember looking at a Mazda rotary wagon about 1974. I sure did want it!
Thanks Jack for a very interesting video. The DeLorean also intrigues me, A former customer of mine has one under a cover in a barn not far from where I live, which I saw last year. I sat in it some years ago and really liked it amongst some other interesting cars that he once had, including a Jensen Interceptor, Mark X Jaguar, Sunbeam Alpine etc. Sadly only the DeLorean is left unloved and hasn't been run for many years. Regards, Bob M. South Wales.
As far as car manufacturers going bankrupt, most American car manufacturers that started from 1900 to 1955 went bankrupt, except for the big 3.
as a PS note...
the Delorean is incredibly underpowered... they had promised a turbo and possible V8 engine in the future but they went under...
today, some car builders here have done some complete rebuilds of Deloreans with modern rear engine GM LS V8 engines...salvaged from front wheel drive LS engine GM cars repurposed to fit in the rear wheel engine bays...these cars are what the Delorean SHOULD HAVE BEEN!!!
The Panther Six ruined the Panther Company. It had a 8-litre Cadillac engine which was twin-turbocharged. It produced 600 HP, and the topspeed was 200 MPH (330 km/h).......
Only one was made in 1977, and priced at 40.000 GBP........The second one was made from auctioned off parts in 1983....
You left off the weirdest thing about it, why it was called the 6.
Just checked howmanyleft, a few Kalistas, no J72s, Rios,, but there are a couple of Solos.
In Australia we had the Holden camira. It was an absolutely horrible car didn't send Holden bankrupt but did cause a massive black mark on Holden. Gearbox issues engine issues would literally rust away to nothing if used near the beach.
27 describes the DeLorean as being "a little underpowered".
Me - Checks Wikipedia and finds 130hp / 97kW.
Even by 1980's standards, that seems like it should be "criminally underpowered".
the Citroen GS was a space-ship and the Wankel was the space-ship engine. oh how we loved space back then
NSU R080 literally, ended the company, it no longer existed, even in name afterwards
Owners used to wave their fingers at each other denoting how many warranty engines they had had.
I have owned several GSes and driven a GS Birotor. To me it was a brilliant car. The ultra smooth Wankel engine complemeted the comfort of the GS very well. And the GS chassis was quite capable of coping with the extra power. Sadly all Wankel engined cars and bikes failed. Because of a little bit of petrol... If you love riding/driving why care about a bit higher consumption. Even today! By the way in 1973 there was no real oil crisis. There was a plot by the Arabs to raise the price. To me that is not a crisis...
Good to hear from someone who has driven one!!