Should Have Made Citroen World Leader - Instead Bankrupted It - Citroen Maserati SM
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- Опубликовано: 8 фев 2023
- The Citroen SM should Have Been The world's best car, it was the most advanced car of its time, it had a new Maserati V6 engine, it was comfortable, looked striking and was a great GT, yet bad luck and some significant flaws meant the Citroen SM still failed and ended up bankrupting Citroen. I look at the history of what could have been the best car in the world and discuss why it failed and how it drives today.
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worked on them Cadburys made the engines for them
French should never do cars ever, and they are not interesting they just plain stupid and bad looking, the only good french manufactor is pegeout, they do ok cars but still put their frenchiness on it and ruins the whole car. Bugatti is in another league so lets not talk about it.
@@MrGodsking
MASERATI E ITALIANA.
REMEMBER ?
My brother had a SM in the early to mid 70's, I don't recall what year but the first time he took me for a ride, we were pulled over by a local Sheriff Deputy. He walked around the car like it was a UFO and finally asked what the hell kind of car it was. Long story short, we were doing 70 in a 55 and my brother said it's a Maserati engine and it idles at 70. The cop let it slide and walked around it again before getting in his patrol car and driving off. I'll never forget that hilarious encounter. Cheers from Utah
What would they perform like with a suitable electric engine?
Love that story!
Did you have citroen in US?
@@Diego-tm3dj Yes.
@@Diego-tm3dj Yes in Utah, USA
I was the owner of a 1972 Citroen SM done up in American market spec ( automatique ) from about 1982 until 1988 and it was an incredible experience. There were vexing mechanical issues and parts availability was a nightmare! Bought and sold it for the same price CAN$12,000 back in the day for a car with around 40,000 Km. It was great fun and there has never been anything even close to it since. Mine was Gold in color so quite striking. The first owner was an airline pilot as I recall. Memories and photographs is all I have left....
Any chance you lived in Don Mills? I worked at a car wash in high school then and drove on-off a gold SM back then. Always a thrill to see it.
Never sell a car that you love 😊
@@johnandrews3568 Have been living in Calgary, Alberta Canada for all my life. The ride to Banff was just perfect for this car. Good old days for sure!
Cars with character man. We literally sweat blood over them (I once got face full of disc brake fixing a wishbone on a Volvo 480 Turbo (first owner was a professional tennis player and member of the Dutch aristocracy, so I called it "The Baroness" in honor of the fact)) but that's what passion is. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on an SM or DS when I was younger. Now, not so much.
My only experience with a Citroen in the nineties was a bad one, gimmicky, flimsy, poor materials, a variable but troublesome suspension
I grew up on a Citroen dealership and service facility. I got to drive in nearly every model Citroen before I was 10yo except the SM and the 2CV. I thought I was the luckiest kid alive. Those cars were spaceships compared to everything other vehicle on the market. Now in my late 50's and even more amazed of those cars in that period. What an experience, still wish I could have a ride in an SM before I exit the planet.
Where do you live ?
@@peers1111 I currently live in rural Australia, far from any SM owners. I have seen the rare traveller come thru with original D models which resulted in great conversations. Anyone driving a D thru rural Australia is no casual.
@@404errorpagenotfound.6
WOW !!
I wish you all the best
from Berlin
@@peers1111 you to, take care.
Just a few comments 😀. Have been driving Cits 1963 (parents) and as an owner since 1968. Current stable 5 with 2 D's/2CV/V6 XM/AX. Had an 2.8L SM for about 6 years and in that time put over 120,000 miles on it with one main chain change . Timing chain(s) - they were quite robust. Main problem was the dinky Reynolds Plastic chain tensioner. Why on this earth they used that POC I have no idea. When I got the car replaced it with a well designed sprocketed one made by Don James here in the US. The only reason I did change that chain is I had pulled the engine to do so - at 60,000 miles that tensioner had barely moved. Engine overall - the 2.8 L ones were basically bullet proof. The 3l suffered from insufficient gap between cylinders - blown head gaskets if overheated. The cars with the 5 speed tranny were not all that bad for mpg. I regularly got, freeway, around 22 to 24 mpg at 65 to 70 mph (Weber's).
Car dropping in rear when braking. Not normal - D's/SM's/CX's should, basically just 'squat' under braking. Problem typically caused by either low pressure in rear suspension spheres. a bit of air in the system or problem with brake pressure unit (very, very rare). Keep in mind that just about all of the hydraulic Cits (DS on) got rear brake 'force' (pressure) based on weight in rear of the car. Front and rear brakes circuits were completely separate. The brake button did intimidate folks the first time used. The braking force in the D's/SM (same exact system) does not require any real force on that control nor much movement. OTOH once one gets the feel for it, all other systems seem antiquated by comparison. Our XM, while having the same basic hydraulic component - has a more 'normal' feel using a 'standard' brake pedal. One of very few thing I don't like about it.
Steering - The DRAVI system is, to put it simply, the best out there. Lots of assist when parking, steering resistance increases with increasing speed. Most don't know but the 'original' specs for the SM was for 1 turn lock to lock - that is for an almost 86° swing of the front wheels lock to lock. Testers felt it was just a bit to quick. Because of the design any side force on the front wheels have no effect on wheel position. IOW hitting a pot hole at speed in a curve will not change wheel position - same for the D's/CX's and any other of the hydraulic cars with power steering. And this just a touch of what Cit brought to the Auto World some 65+ years ago.
My father has owned his SM since 1997 and loves it. We’ve been all over in it. Restored twice in that time including a bare metal job in 2008 it remains a fixture at classic car events around the midlands and has only failed to start twice in all those years. My grandfather had a brand new one in 1972. I can confirm that when new arriving in an SM drew the same attention as aliens landing a spaceship.
Nice number of like yo got
Aargh!! So both your father and your grandfather drove an SM? Now you dó got me jealous, lol😄😄!
I got to drive a brand new CM early 70s in Miami. What a cool car!
Elsewhere I wrote about this car, and described it thus:
"Think of it as the DS19's slightly edgy daughter, with a little too much fondness for absinthe, Gauloises and adventurous bedroom games, and you won't go far wrong" ... :)
Hi. Can I ask what country you are in please?
I first saw an SM when I was about 14 back in the seventies and it was like seeing a spaceship on the road. An extraordinary thing and it still is. Utterly stunning.
Thanks for the memories chap!!
Thanks for the memories chap!!
Nothing like being around 14 when you like cars. I remember bumping into a z4 on my holidays in Portugal, that then looked like nothing I'd seen before.
I was in the US Army at age 19 when I test drove this one in West Germany. In the city and also about 8 kilometers on the Ring Autobahn around Frankfurt. Opted to go with a (slightly used) Audio Ro80 instead. In our barracks in Hanau, we had quite a collection of exotics by Army personnel. Two Lotus Europas, an E-type, a Daimler and even a Bentley! Back then, a used car was dirt cheap. Unlike today.
@@frankfarago2825 Why not go for the SM?🤨
A very objective and spot on review, thank you!
Now, about the steering and the brakes: They are in reality not power assisted, but actually proper heigh pressure hydraulically actuated, as in the 'Airbus'es and fighter jets... and they work beautifully when you get used to them. My CX'es had both. The worse weather or traffic conditions, the more you learned to appreciate them - they'll become you best friends and a life insurance. I have driven all sorts of cars from heavy trucks to luxury limousines and I have never found anything so perfect. Almost 200000 miles, mostly on icy roads and snowstorms in a very mountainous part of my country. To counter balance a serious unprovoked slide, you could easily do it with one hand without having to change you grip on the wheel. Torque steer is non existent which is a wonderful trait in snowy and slushy conditions - it works just as well the other way, when a deep snow drift will try to turn the steering wheel for you.. And the brakes, the braking force is almost perfectly proportional or linear to the pressure on the pedal (CX - button on the DS/SM). I have never experienced a braking system where you can adjust the braking force so precise, AND... this is a forgotten but seriously important quality; the pedal/button is below the throttle pedal, which means that you'll never have to lift (!) your foot off the throttle - slide your foot sideways and you land on the brake. This is just so much quicker and for braking distance will be measurable shorter and more so the faster you go. Citroēn is grossly underappreciated and the technology's they invented and/or used are only now becoming available in other everyday cars. Thanks again for the review 😎
I've owned 4 DS/ID... a guy who helped me work on them let me drive his SM. On the country roads, it quite literally felt like a jet skimming over the ground, wings not needed.... The brakes are amazing. The ride astonishing. I don't recall the idle being that bad. It was the 3litre 5speed.
If the DS and the SM would fall out of the sky today, Feb the 10th 2023, people would be just as shocked, surprised and in awe as we were in 1955 and 1971. I drove my CX Diesel today and after all those years, nothing feels like a Citroen.
My car also has diravi steering. I have been a Citrophile since 1956, when the word "Chic" still meant something.
Thanks for the honest video. Good to see that I am not the only one that doesn't know how to explain how the car feels.
Greetings from YVR
the DS was decades ahead of anything else technology wise just unbelievable
Citrophile? Does that mean you love lemons?
bro it looks like an old car
@@carlosandleon What do you drive, bro?
Hello *to YVR* 🇨🇦🐻❄️🇩🇪
The V6 engine was an entirely different design to the V8. The V6 had 3 timing chains, all troublesome. The tension on the top chains had to be adjusted by hand. They had to run very tight or they would jump the teeth on the inlet camshaft sprocket with disastrous results. I did several head jobs on Maserati Meraks, same engine.
Correct, they made a one of where they cut of two cylinders, but the SM and Meraks engine has not much to do with the v8
It’s also an odd-fire engine which gives the perceived ’rough running’. Personally, I think it provides character!
@@ClassicCarDriver nice to hear someone say something nice about the engine 👌
Citroen/Maserati we’re not alone. Honda also struggled with cam chains and lubrication of the top end in general.
@@marcgleeson1599 the 3.0litre SS upgrade is a monster.! Well worth doing if you can find one! 😎
When I was a mere lad I used to walk to the Citroen dealer and literally play in the cars in the showroom.
No one ever treated me poorly or chased me out.
Even then I thought these are some nice people.
I did the same at the Porsche dealer a block from our house, they were nice to me also. I'm so glad they were kind to me so I wouldn't be left with a tainted attitude of the cars!
Are you the kid in the Porsche ad
Couple of other notes: If you talked to former Citroen factory guys after the fall, they all tell the same story. The rotary engine, which did indeed contribute to the demise, was specifically intended for the SM, quite possibly in 3-rotor form. But for the thirst, THAT would have been a marvel!
If you kept up with the servicing and updates, the timing chains were not so troublesome. There was a tensioner upgrade that made a big durability difference. Also, as I stated before, this car was absolutely dependent upon thorough and knowlegeable maintenance. Far too many Citroen agents were only too quick to give it an oil change and a wash and tell the owner it was ready, pocketing a tidy sum in the process. Pity...
GUARDATI PURE
[ALFA ROMEO 33]
UN SOGNO ANNI 70.
Jack, one thing you failed to mention is how unbelievably plush and comfortable the seats are. DS and SM seats are truly unlike anything found in any other automobile I have ever experienced. They are unbelievably thick and soft and cosseting, feeling far more like furniture than automotive seats. I’ve only sampled them briefly but I would imagine it would make a long journey effortless, literally like piloting your sofa across a continent.
The hydro pneumatic suspension and braking are also unique, and problematic to maintain because they are so far removed from convention.
One of these cars retrofitted with a Toyota V6 like a Lous Evora (sacrilege, I know…) would be absolutely brilliant.
I always found these to be absolutely hideous and it gave me a strong feeling of the whole brand. I never bought a Citroën at all until my husband bought an 08 plate C4 Grand Picasso.
Those soft seats continued in the series 1 CX models. Almost a bargain basementSM which utilised the Diravi steering, suspension and brakes found in the DS and SM. The later 80’s series 2 GTI Turbo 2 CX with intercooler actually marginally bettered the performance figures of the SM.
My late uncle had a brand new gorgeous semiautomatic 66 DS21 Pallas with the most amazing soft leather seats - like great soft marshmallows. Little to no support in corners but fabulous in a long drive from Edinburgh to Italy & back. Spaceship to drive, complex and massively idiosyncratic - but fabulous. Great memories. ❤
The foam under the carpet is like 3" thick! we had a bunch of Cits growing up with the last one a 71' DS21 Pallas and then they pulled out of the US market. Was a sensation around our neighborhood.
@@spinnetti Renault R-16 and the Renault R-10 outperformed their peers.
Hybrid engine match held & concluded: Tesla 'S' most over-rated EV on the road.
Tesla "cliche" by 2030-some for sure. Get real.
Excellent review. My uncle in France had a Traction Avant in '62 and my Grandfather in France bought a DS in '67. Great memories. I remember in 1971 when the SM came out and how advanced and futuristic it was at the time compared to other cars on the street.
My music teacher had a Traction Avant--this was in the 1970s, so they were already antiques by then. I think he said he got it from “the United Nations”.
I have worked the sm in the seventies it was a nightmare we had the engine out twice,first time was big ends rumble new oil pump and crank shaft reground and new bearings. We put the engine back in the we could hear the timing chain rattling,engine back out again. We got the blue print of a modification we had to make a new timing chain slipper pad and riveted a nylon chain pad and also drill into the oil gallery to spray extra oil on the chain. It was a nightmare. Thanks for the vid brings back memories.
Jack, I have just come across your channel and I think it is wonderful: informative, detailed, fun and entertaining all at the same time. I will definitely be looking up the previous editions on the channel and waiting eagerly for the new uploads. I do love Citroen cars, and having lived in France for 5 years, I saw many old and bold ones on the country roads there.
This dashboard actually looks so modern ! Doesn't look outdated at all.
My 80s BX19, which was pretty "normal" compared to this, was the most singular and charming car I've ever owned. Like driving while sitting in an armchair that's floating on air. Great for long trips!
i had a bx had all the spheres serviced and the speed bumps didnt exits at 30 mph had all citroen and got 2 c1s after i swapped my 2010 c5 for a van lot of car for the money
Agreed - I fitted the optional larger spheres on all four corners, made the ride even softer! The TZD 1.9 engine was sufficient.
I've had the honour of owning 3 BX TRI's, 2 estates and a hatch. Oh boy do i miss them. I now drive a C5 X7 Tourer 2.7.
80s BX19: under acclaimed car. Try finding a good one now, super rare, and cool!
I worked at a Citroen dealership and the amount of spheres and hydraulic pipes I fitted on the bx was ridiculous lol we ended up making our own pipes with a specialist kit we bought
Fun fact: Citroën also had a guy named Paul de Casteljau working for them. He was a pioneer in the use of certain mathematical formulations of curves for designing shapes (like those of car bodies) on a computer. Those curves have since become universal in computer graphics--if you’ve used any kind of drawing app, you will have come across them.
But there was another similar pioneer working at another French car company, Renault, who got the credit (and the name) for these curves. Pierre somebody, as I recall.
Pierre Bezier
Bézier curves
Ah right! I remember reading up on this material a few years back, fantastic work.
I still own mine....48 years this year....been in my extended family two years earlier....so a total of 50 years. Citroen did a modification to the engine in @1977....free to owners...making improvements. The engine would run a bit rough....scheduled maintenance was imperative!! My mechanic installed an electric ignition system in @1991 or 1992.....(no more points and condensers) now it always runs smoothly. And I'm fortunate to still have my same mechanic, who is one of my dearest friends. Peter..... It's a very exciting car to own. I love mine to this very day. Rest in Paradise to the premier SM expert in California.... the late Jerry Hathaway. I also have a DS21 Pallas.
This has always been one of my favourite cars. My father owned a DS back in the 1960s and I will never forget how comfortable that car was. The suspension and seats were amazing. I was gutted when he sold it as my mother hated it. It was something to do with his friend who also had a DS but she found out his wife had a bit of a thing for my dad, so the car got the blame!🙄
I believe the early SM's had 3 twin choke downdraft carburettors and the later ones like the one you are driving were fuel injected. I remember articles in the press at the time saying the earlier carburettor versions were slightly quicker and more dynamic to drive, but suffered from heavier fuel consumption. I also remember seeing them race on the circuits and the understeer going around Druids at Brands was a sight to behold...
Hi Jack it would be great if you did a full walk around, opening the bonnet, boot doors etc. The driving shots are good but I really like to see the details. Keep up the good work.
Awesome car. Thank you for showcasing these cars that just don't exist anymore. Keep up the good work.
My uncle has a couple of these old citroen SM in his barn , he used to run a citroen dealership that changed franchise in the 70`s and some of the stock was stored in his barn and is still there to this day !
This is truly an amazing automobile with a classy interior for the time. My hat's off to the French for such advanceed engineering of this machine.
Yes! The DS and SM are two of my favorites and when one of them is reviewed I’m happy for the rest of the day. Thanks Jack
My first video of you. Very nice. You are personable, love the accent and your enthusiasm for old cars.
The evolution of mechanics and other advancements that took place in the post war world (1946 - 1980) and predated wide spread computer use is absolutely amazing to me. Engineers and builders were complete tradesmen at that time and created beautiful machines like the Citroen SM with their slide rules their testing facilities and their own handed down "know how" and feel.
We sent a man to the moon with similar available technology and regularly circumnavigated the globe for the first time also.
The amount of hard work, craftsmanship and daring that went into just about every endeavor then, is still inspiring us today.
My father had Citroens in the 70s and I made him take me to Earls Court motor show in 1972 just to see the SM. I nearly bought one in the 90s but chickened out. The nearest thing I've got is a BX gti with very similar looking black leather seats which I call my baby SM 😃 Thanks Jack, I really enjoyed that.
One of my all time favorites. Another interesting detail about it are the rain sensitive wipers. The wipers have little resistance on a wet screen and use less energy. A control circuit in the SM would register this and keep the wipers going. More resistance meant a dry(-ish) windscreen and shut down the wipers.
Great point! And one of the many I missed in the video.. always hard to remember everything!!
I can imagine, there is so much to tell about the SM. On the other hand you need to select what to tell in a video or what to leave out.
That is interesting that Citroen designed a great Wiper System! I ask myself "What did the Citroen Designers of the SM decide NOT to incorporate? I would bet that many ideas weren't utilised. Also, I had the chance to spend 4 hours with an SM. Not mentioned here - was the massive pair of Hollow Box Section, as you step into your front seats. Side Intrusion perhaps?
I cut my teeth working at a Citroen dealership in the very early 1980's. Those were the days of the 2CV6, Dyane 6, Ami 8 & Super, GS, CX and the beautiful DS.
The most fun to drive was the 2CV6, what with body roll when cornering a bit faster than usual, and the canvas roof rolled back on sunny days with the wind in your hair, it was a very cheap convertable at the time, only about 760 quid new.
But the best one was the Ami Super. It had the 1015cc flat 4 engine from the GS as opposed to the 602cc flat twin engine from the 2CV6 & Dyane 6 that powered the Ami 8.
Nothing better than pootling down the motorway in an Ami Super than when the classic Boy Racer tries to pass you.
I just looked at him, smiled, and hit the loud pedal and looked in my mirror to see him receding in my dust. I must admit that the Ami Super didn't have a fantastic top speed, but by heck it got there quick.
Ahh, those were the days.
Thank you for this video, I remember seeing these cars on the road many years ago, but never knew anything about them. It is a long time since I have seen one now and I appreciate your run down on it. Thanks from Australia 🇦🇺
I agree that the SM looks great from some angles, and just plain odd from others. It's like the the villain, Two-Face. That being said, I've always liked them, and I appreciate the very original and distinct design.
Back in the 80's there was a blue Citroen SM in my apartment complex. It sat in a carport front end out and I must have walked by that car 200 times, drooling every time. That front 3/4 view when it's hunkered down is awesome.
I don’t care, I think it’s fantastic from all angles. The Japanese term “wabi-sabi” might be relevant here.
Hats off to Citroën, at the time the maddest car company on the planet. We shall never see their like again.
Thanks Jack.
I had a CX GTI years ago and it had the same steering called "diravi". Yes, you've got to be used to it, but when you are, it's great, specially on highways. Also the brakes, when you drive another car, it seems to have no brakes ! Cheers from France.
Good review Jack. You have a rich and descriptive way of describing the way this drives and feels that is instantly understandable! Being in Canada I myself could never get over the overall appearance of it. Too foreign and odd for most of us back then, but it did get the stares and comments;)
Your review of the SM brought back memories. I was sales manager of Kesteven Cars in Wadington Lincolnshire (now defunct sadly) in the 60s & 70s with Citroen, Maserati and Peugeot franchises. An SM was my (demo) driver and I loved it until the Maserati Khamsin came along. The SM allways attracted attention wherever it went but 1974 changed everything for the dealership due to the fuel crisis. I don't recall the engine roughness you mention, perhaps setup ?? The Merak had the same engine but less complicated without most of the SM's ancilaries and that was smooth at tick-over so less likely to be an imbalance problem! I did a full review of the then Maserati range in conjunction with Motor Sport magazine over a few days at RAF Cranwell and at Silverstone. Thanks for the memory. Numerically our best selling car at the time was the Citroen GS.
Hi, Great review. You could have mentioned that the front lights are kept levelled at any time, even on bumpy roads.This works thanks to linking the hydraulic circuit to the torsion bars. There is no chromed metal in the SM, it is all stainless steel. It was the 1st car with the windscreen glueded. First foreign car elected car of the year in the US by Motor Trend. I own one injection model, gold (or de simiane), currently being restaured by SM2A. They are fantastic specialist of the SM and Maserati in the Champagne area in France.
A drag coefficient of 0.26 is astounding. The Opel/Vauxhall Calibra was celebrated in 1989 for 0.26 as the most aerodynamic car.
But there are some details that are a hint - the enclosed wheels are surely a huge help (but make the track width anaemic, to say the least), and it has only one mirror. I heard a mirror costs 5 km/h in top speed
I've got a Calibra, a V6, but not from Matra.
8:07 😂 Jack has that Oh too familiar
" _Shift Face_ "😠 we car nuts get when giving a car "the beans" (or all it's got) ! I'd be lying if I said I've never had it! 😆
I saw an SM recently at Whangarei Airport in New Zealand, only the second one I have seen at age 64.
Only the owner and I knew what it was but everyone else turned their eyes to admire it.
My first car was a Citroen L15.
My dad was a citroên fan from DS21, DS24 and this one, so spacious, such a smooth ride and safe. We drove down a 5,4km pass on 3 wheels, only discovering the back wheel had come off at the bottom. The original rim was found when entering the pass next the road stuck under the barrier. We where fully laden. I owned and drove a Citroên Berlingo for 7 years after Citroên had returned to South Africa, what a pleasure.
I guess the tyre wear was low on that corner :D
The SM, an automotive wonder from a time when cars were the result and a reflection of each manufacturer’s country’s culture and lifestyle! A time when Citroen would come up with genius solutions to problems that never really existed 😅 Culminating with the beautiful-from-all-angels CX and the Bertone/Gandini-styled BX, classic Citroens will forever be my heart’s favorites. PS: check out the mouthwatering restomod SM2!
I miss those days.. life seemed so much more interesting and exciting?
In that case France must have been schizophrenic, with the off the wall weirdness of Citroens and boring staidness of Peugeots.
Angels or angles? Both probably!
👍
What a nice chap. 🙂 You know the car is quite old the design was never perfect but he has this beautiful talent for presenting a car design honestly but being gentle on its little faults and not sounding too critical. I subscribed. His delicate balance in presenting cars is spot on. ☝🙂
I had a 1973 EFI for 14 (slightly anxious) years, but no problems. I had the top timing chains tensioned every 3,000 miles as eventually recommended, but the unreachable primary chain had a self-tensioning device which could run out of 'self tensioning' without warning. That was the scary one!
It was the fastest production front wheel drive car of its time, but I must say that mine never sounded rough either on tick-over or at low revs - maybe I was lucky! I also had a DS2 EFI Pallas semi auto at the same time (definitely lucky then!) which my girlfriend preferred. Years later, she's still cross I sold that one!
More curious was the manufacturing 'exchange' which saw some Maseratis with SM components. The Merak had the 3-litre US spec SM engine and hydraulic braking and steering, and the LHD cars (but not the SS) had the SM facia!
Thank You for covering one of my favorite cars ever made! Sad to see the magic of Citroen gone in the last years..
Thank you very much for this clip about my all time favorit dreamcar! Btw, the rally you mentioned, was not Paris-Dakar; the first P -D was only in 1978. It was the "Rallye du Maroc", back in 1971. And good to mention; Citroën SM won that edition! With Citroëns DS coming in on 3rd, 4th and 9th place☺
Great Video, enjoyable & informative, well made, & good oration👍
I enjoyed your review of the car. I didn't know this model or the history of Citroën going bankrupt in 74. Thanks so much.
The cars you’ve been reviewing have been phenomenal. Terrific content Jack, and I really enjoy watching. You are carving a real niche for yourself in Automotive RUclips. Compelling
I drove twice some younger Citroëns from mid germany to upper north in the Netherlands for a friend. I can truly state that the hydraulic suspension and the comfortable seats makes driving these cars a blessing and confirmed what a another friend said about the difference between his Audi Q8 or C6 : the latter one is maybe slower ..but doesnt break your back on long Journeys.....
I've seen all the SM reviews. By far you have done the best job at it. Well researched and thought out. And you opinions against the masses show a good understanding of the car. Congratulations I've just subscribed to your channel in apprection for your efforts.
In1974 I lived in Chiswick doing shift work in the computer industry, and after work I regularly took the tube to Richmond for a swim. I had to walk past the Orange Tree pub which had an SM parked outside it. I always stopped to look, being mesmerised by the beauty of this car. I think it had a Maserati engine. I never saw it drive though.
What a great, light-hearted yet informative insight into a magnificent car. Thoroughly enjoyed watching it.
I'd love to see a similar review on the Renault 25 if you ever get the opportunity. Thanks again 👍🏼
I had a friend who had a Renault, don't know which model. I couldn't even get the car started. 🤷
Yeah, remarkable car, Jack and it also frequently occurs to me what a total revelation the DS must have been when unveiled at the 1955 Paris motor show. I mean, sub-standard mechanicals apart, just look at what else was around in 1955 !!
Astounding automobiles, both of them.
Many thanks.
Without forgetting Gina.
Indeed a legendary car😍 My dad had it from 1978 until 1984. I recollect it was an injection model back then which was a novelty... On the dark side, it often broke down due to mineral oil leakages that were used for both steering and hydropneumatic suspension. Service was a nightmare as it required a specialized garage where my dad had to drive over 100kms to get there, and eventually when the dealership ceased opérations, the car became a collector's item and was acquired by a Citroën hobbyist (sort of).
A man I worked for in the early 2000’s had one of these in Northern California. He was totally eccentric, so it made perfect sense for him, in that place and time.
When I was younger I didn't really get the DS but as I got older it 'clicked' how great the design was, This car kind of got me on board more or less strait away. I agree it can look a bit awkward at some angles but you can forgive it as it is French! The oil crisis hampered many cars so to me that is a small factor in it's history. I think the engine design was probably the biggest issue with regard to the angle of the 'V'. You could argue that if they had more time then we might be having a different discussion today. A good review Jack thank you. 👍👍
When I was a teenager this car was my dream motor until I got to find out about its engine problems. But even so its a fantastic looking car today, still able to knock the beauty spots off the current range of cars being made today. Maybe the manufacturers should take a good look at the SM's styling for inspiration?
Really enjoyable film. Gives real insights into how it feels, goes, a real sense of it’s presence. Thanks, great stuff 😀👍
Fabulous video. Very interesting. Thank You!
Love mine!
Best car ever for continental cruising!
Having had about ten DS/IDs (19-23), saloons, Safaris, convertibles... even de Gaule's car...too many stories..., I bought my first SM mid 70's.
I have had my present one for quite a while, and I can honestly say that it is the only car that I have driven non-stop for ten hours (apart from relief stops!), and got out at the end feeling that I had spent the day in a comfortable armchair!
Dog loves it too!
I always say it is like driving a (60s) Formula 1 magic carpet!
Visibility is so good that you don't realise that it is LHD, and the variable steering is really fantastic... all cars should have it!
The only 'gotcha' is that the rear track is quite a lot narrower than the front, which makes town parking 'interesting'...
And when I open the bonnet, people cannot comprehend the complexity!
Internal disc brakes... and that wonderful suspension!
Change a wheel without getting your hands dirty?
(Apart from the cost of filling the enormous fuel tank!).
Long live Sa Majestée!
One of my friend had this car while we were students in mid 70s And I drove it for a couple of times , I was impressed by its suspension and every time you drive you could adjust the height and you could feel the vehicle rising to your desired hight depending upon the r road conditions .
Every thingvwas different compared to other vehicles British vehicles
A friend of my father had a Citroen dealership, therefore I grew up in the trunk of a DS Break. He got one of the SM and told my father, that he only had problems when he tried to use it as a daily. As soon as he found out that it worked absolutely perfect on long distance and especially as soon as the engine was warm, he only used it for holiday travels and he had no issues any more. Nowadays, they are highly seeked after in Germany…
I adore the Citroen SM when i was a kid in the early 70s here in the USA, it was ,it is and always will be the most beautiful car ever built by a French--Italian car companies. You can't beat that strange relationship,i mean that in a positive way.LOL.Great video, enjoyed it.
One of the best videos of the SM that I've seen, well done sir! I've owned Citroëns for 50 years in the USA, so know a bit about them. I have an SM myself, originally purchased by Tommy Chong (I have the pink slip!). We've had that SM for about 20 years, and we have 10 Citroêns in total, six CXs, an XM and three SMs between myself, my father and a brother. Certainly you didn't cover everything, but there is just so much to cover that a single video wouldn't do it. But you chose well in what to reveal.
For those who are curious, parts today are readily available from several sources. But maintaining these cars requires more knowledge by the owner than most any other car. In the USA knowledgable mechanics are few and far between, and those who specialize are busy so getting in their shop is an ordeal. Thus, most owners do their own work. My father did get a shop in his rural area to agree to do the work as he trained them how to do it, which worked fairly well, sort of. 🙂
Again, kudos on this video, I like it a lot. I'm jealous because the injected versions never got to the USA, and we suffer those horrible headlights too.
Do you need a new best friend? Lol! I have always loved Citroen cars and still regret passing up a chance for a nice SM in the late 80's!
You are suffering from a Citroen disease, and deserve admiration for it.
as in Cheech ? so a non smokers car!
Loved my 1970 Citroen DS 21 Pallas. Fantastic car with amazing features.
What a great review I have to say ur knowledge is outstanding and a privilege to watch brilliantly done
Actually for the suspension to stiffen up the front is to create more grip on both the front and rear tyres when braking, which is a good thing.
That on most cars the front goes down when braking is a shortcoming of normal (dumb) suspension, you have less grip on both front and rear tyres and needs a lot more involvement of the ABS (human or electronic) to keep the cars under control.
Wonderful cars I was lucky to work for a Citroen dealer in the seventies loved working on SM’s. You are right about the timing chains at least the top ones the problem was wear from the guides and tensioners, the correct tension was bar tight the first time I did them I rang the factory in Slough,to make shore it was not a mistake in the manual. When correctly tuned they ticked over very nice something wrong with that one didn’t sound right on acceleration either. One thing not mentioned was the variable power assistance os the road speed increased the assistance decreased giving more feedback from the road. I real drivers car.
I can never decide if I love it or it's kinda meh, but if you look at what was available at the time, it's an amazing thing. Like you, I simply applaud the fact that it was ever made. Cars with this character and presence are rare these days. How many of today's, none supercars, will be admired for anything in 50 years time?
Couldn’t have put it better myself! Thanks for watching chap!
None 😉👌
I predict the piles of plastic with angry Samurai warrior faces we have for cars today will not be missed by many.
The fabulous Fiat 130 Coupe was a contemporary. And the 3.2 litre V6 was way way better.
@@jamesrecknor6752 Come to think of old Henry Ford : Any color you like as long as it is black. today it is : any brand you want, we will fit it with what ever hidious plastic you like and call it what you prefer. Oh you do not like that look anymore? don't worry it won't last long. either it breaks down or politicians band it for some reason. Not many cars these days I want to have and those I do want are not the newest ones.
What a tremendous joy to watch! Thanks for making the video and making it so well and informative. The constant smile you have while driving is a dead giveaway to the awesomeness of the SM.
Thank you Evert and glad you enjoyed it!!
Not a French car fan but the Maserati Citroën was a truly astounding car to drive the looks well its either a flower or a weed .
I used to maintain and repair a couple of these for a local guy who collected all manner of Citroen and Matra Simca stuff. From my point of view they were like many innovations,great ideas but ultimately ideas that we didn't possess the money or technology to fully develope into a durable product. A case of running before you can walk. These were fantastic to look at(not as pretty as a DS though) and dynamically a cut or two above it peers,and actually pleasant to drive unlike many cars of that era.We all admire innovation but history has repeatedly proven that innovation at the cost of reliability has never been a recipe for success.
Unfortunately I believe you’re right .. thanks for watching chap!
Was the citroen collector a guy called Graham from suffolk that run a few cafes And are you the guy with the Ford collection?
@@areyouundoingthatorwhat9181 It was,and I am.
Still looks futuristic
What a masterpiece. What a beauty. I need to get one of these.
They've made more than 10 thousands so it wouldn't be impossible to find.
I know the SM quite well as I have rebuilt three of them from scratch so far... Oil pump issue was the little oilpump drive pin. You fit in a reinforced one and that was it. Timing chain issue was more severe. The primary timing chain (UK supplied by Reynolds...) on the early engines was too weak and tended to strech. In conjunction with an underdimensiond chain tensioner trouble was to be forseen. You correctly mentioned the ancillary engine components such as HP Pump, alternator and not to forget the rumbling AC compressor unit making things a bit delicate.
There was a recall for this issue but due to lack of mechanical training, Citroen mechanics largely refused to carry out the modifications telling customers to carry on for a complete new engine on guarantee...
The carburettor cars are sometimes tricky to start when hot. On the other hand all my carb cars used at least 2 Litres less on 100km than the EFI version! And it it extremely economical compared to all its conteporary competitors. I run mine between 10 and 12 Litres/100km! The EFI engine noise is louder to my experience. One of my carb cars (very early 1970 car) has new sound insulation in the engine bay and it is extremely silent. My second one still has the original insulation as it was in good shape. But it turned out louder...
The engine was designed by Giulio Alfrieri and it was NOT just a V8 with 2 cylinders cut off. The cylinder angle was as it was due to the engine bay. And yes it is not as sweet as an inline 6 but it gives this car that unmistakable character of a revving and agressive sounding engine combined to that kind of flying ultra comfortable carpet.
Even by today standards a very quick and extremely comfortable car. If you got used to the steering you dont want to have a normal one again. You forgot some of the further uncountable technical innovations such as rain sensor, bonded windscreen and the car was even prepared for an airbag!!!
Your car (Bleu Bregancon I suppose) should hve grey carpet instead of beige. Otherwise just a beauty!!!
Do I detect the words of a man who knows what he's talking about?
You could get an upgraded chain from DID
@@arrowworks-uk Yes, they are in all of my cars I have redone...
You've been reviewing and testing some great cars recently. Great insights and tremendous entertainment. I hope you enjoy getting a chance to drive these legends as much as we do watching you do so!!!
Absolutely.. it’s all my childhood dreams come true!! Have to pinch myself
You mentioned the squat at the rear when the brakes were applied, that created a great anti skid action. I owned anID19 as my first car and a DS 21 Pallas as my second and NEVER was able to break traction.This is saying something as I was 15-25 years old when I had them. Wonderful cars way ahead of everything at the time.Too bad Citroens new owners didn't let their engineers dream.
But under Peugeot ownership were produced cars such as the BX, XM, Xantia Activa.
such a very beautiful presentation! bravo!!
I had one. About the steering, it took me a while to adjust to the way it went around corners but once get used to it the "car goes wherever you point it". And as for speed bumps, the trick was well before reach one of them slow down and allow car in front get distant and then accelerate and go over the speed bump as fast as possible so you don't feel it
Such an intriguing car car. I've always loved the design - a sort of 70's Sci-fi vision of the future. Yet at the same time timeless. I have owned a couple of Citroens of a similar vintage, although nothing as exotic as an SM. They always seemed to me as if Citroen had invented their own version of the motor car parallel to the rest of the industry. What a shame that they couldn't have found a better engine - something like the Busso V6 that came along a few years later.
Like the 2000GT, I've admired this one from afar since I've never seen one in the flesh. My introduction to the SM was a Matchbox car as a kid. I've since developed a deeper admiration for it by reading Road & Track and watching videos like this one. I personally think the interior design and dash wouldn't look out of place today, perhaps timeless is the word. Thanks Jack for an excellent (as always) in-depth review.
I still have the matchbox model!
Thank you Don, glad you enjoyed it and thanks for the comment!
The Citroen SM, a gem of a car. The precedents, with hydrodynamic suspension, ID19, DS 21 & DS23 are legendary. The same supple ride with adjustable height, the same squat when braking. Similar aerodynamics.
The same brake button and similar power assisted steering. Effortless cruising. The engine layout for the 'Traction Avant' is the engine is against the Firewall and the gearbox to the front.
The Estate version (Station Wagon) was used a lot as a camera platform in Africa and elsewhere to film wild animals because the ride gave exceptional stability on rough roads.
My brother had an ID19 and I learned a lot about how it was engineered.
Changing a wheel was a breeze, raise the suspension to full height and prop the car up with the prop supplied, replace the wheel with the spare and you are off again
The early DS I drove into Marseilles at around 110mph overwhelmed me with its achievements. I was properly astonished at French automotive capacity, I regularly drove a Reneault 16 all over which kept glued to the roads. I casually raced a 911 with it from outside of Geneva past Grenoble and I consistently bettered the 911, even on Alpine hair-turns. Truly breathtaking when
compared to anything on the roads of America at the time. I mean it.
Great video on one of my favorite cars. I see the current owner of the SM has changed out the piston-style air-con compressor with a rotary one to eliminate the harmonic imbalance. As a matter of fact, this particular SM displays very well - a totally beautiful car. I'd love to have one but I would want the re-engineered one called the SM2 by the French firm SM Garage.
Yep the SM2 does look incredible!!
@@Number27 So it should be, for the price!
Yes, that HORRIBLE York AC compressor besides being inadequate, killed its drive couplings & shaft as if it had been intentionally designed to do so. Then again, there were many other Citroen problems that were self-inflicted-wounds.
@@alro2434 In fairness, Citroen weren't the only car company to produce products with problems that might seems unbelievable today as we look back. Interceptors have been mentioned on this thread, but they weren't without their problems. Triumph Stags, another favourite of mine, had a host of well documented issues. Mercedes, bio-degradable wiring looms/dodgy rads. Name a company that hasn't cocked up with one model or another.
The good news is, with most of these cars, the problems are known about and, by now, in most cases, solutions found. That means that in a lot of examples, the cars are better and more reliable than they were years ago.
And, I believe, (hope!) that that is the case with the SM. Unless you have unearthed one that has been in a barn for the last 40yrs then it should have had the valves replaces, been fitted with better timing chains/tensioners and an improved oil pump drive, (and A/C pump.)
I doubt if many people these days are going to be looking at an SM as a daily driver. Driven sensibly, and sympathetically, with attention paid to the required maintenance and some respect as to it's age, I don't see any reason why an SM shouldn't provide reliable and interesting motoring. An interesting and pleasurable car to drive after a week of boring, modern clone cars.
At least I hope so! Ask me in a years time!
The SM was truly ahead of its time, with its design, amazing ride quality and advanced technology! You didn't mention the turning headlight design, which is nuts! Considering it was, the early 70s. It has its shortcomings and put Citereon in a very bad situation! But overall an amazing piece of automotive history!
Thank Sir Jack for, the historical reacap and great content! ✌✌👍
He mentioned it.
@@michaelbenardo5695 He did very briefly! At 3:13. Missed that🤦♂️, my bad!
Thanks for great review! The feeling of these cars on the road is just unique
Hey, just found your channel. Really cool review of the Citroen SM I think, different to other car channels. Like it!
Awesome, thank you! glad you enjoyed it!!
Nice video of a car that deserves more attention. To many people get scared away from classic Citroens because they are said to be complicated and hard to service. The opposite is true, the hydropneumatic suspension, brakes and steering are as reliable and straightforward as the usual hydraulic brakes no one has second thoughts about. The people I know who wrench their SM state they are the most easy of Citroens to work on.
Yes, that ought to be said much more often. I owned a CX and an XM. The hydraulics are easy.
@@reallynotpc Same here. I did have leaks on one of my CXs, once a return line and then a cylinder at the rear. But that was by no means because bad engineering but simply because they were old cars. Parts were cheap and the repair was easy. Did it in my back yard.
No Martin, SMs are very, very complicated and require constant work. The easiest Citroen to work on is obviously the deux-chevaux and its derivatives.
I've always had a soft spot for big Citroen's, they are great for long road trips also I love how they have a look like know other! I think a big Citroen is the definition of something different. Cracking stuff as always Jack 👍
Hello old buddy. Thanks for watching as always and for the great comments!
@@Number27 Thanks for the great entertainment Jack! 😉👍
Too bad you won't make it to the finish of your long road trip..
@@snoordman4831 😂.....if you look after them I don't believe that's true to be fair.
@@ryanmccormick2150 keep spending a truckload of money on maintenance to keep it in good shape.. it's french engineering, always a surprise if you make it to your destination.. ;)
I got to see my first SM in London on 2019. It was absolutely astonishing!!!
Stunning car, I’d be scared to own one though due to the bork factor
Congrats on the channel success, you’re steaming towards the 100k club!
My parents had a "Traction Avant" and our neighbour at the time had a convertible. Years later I had a GS, but the SM remained a goal. By the time I could afford one, I was living in California and there was no mechanic in the area who knew anything about them, so I chickened out.
Ironically one of the world's leading SM specialists (the late Jerry Hathaway) based his SM World in California. He sold Jay Leno the SM that remains in his collection and Jerry's shop helped maintain it until he passed away in 2021.Thankfully another Citroen specialist (MARRS) acquired SM World's assets. It appears that Jerry's legacy is in good hands.
Soo sad. No reving up to 6500 rpm. That´s the field where "the lion is awakening". The very be(a)st side of this car! I drove it so on so many occasions in this manner. Oh boy, this was much better as everything that the car even offered, and there was plenty! Comfort, great roadholding, thick leather, the stylish shifter, but the exhaust note and the power from the poited 4 camshafts at 5000 rpm. Absolutley fantastic! PS: I sold the car because of the steering. The hydraulic system decoupled the steering completely from the road and the front axle. Very tricky in quick corners or sudden evasive maneuvers.....and the inboard disc brakes tend to get quick fading after fast driving passages. . Another little point. The headlights didn't have the best light with their curved second glass covers and the highbeam illumination in the corners were disappointing for their expense (and with poor angle). A funny thing from parking. A bit of throttle moving backwards and the back end lifts so high that you didn't see how much space was behind you. Very charming:-) A flashback: Boy oh boy. A very hot car in the summer! . The V6 very near to the driver because of the front middle engine position and the great hutch back window! The electric windows were notorious out of order because of a broken plastic gear ( in this days a new spare part from one club in metal solved this problem)
Exactly. This dude...no idea.
I had a school friend who loved Citroën. He has a "Traction Avant 15 légère " and a DS. Beautiful cars. He regretted not being able to find an SM. They became rare very quickly due to the disastrous reliability of the engine. I owned the poor man's DS, the GS. It didn't have all the bells and whistles but was very reliable (flat four air cooled engine) and had the great Citroën hydropneumatic suspension and the weird one stem steering wheel.
Don't believe I have ever seen one before. Great content Number 27. I adore the appearance of this French Classic. A real shame it was blighted by mechanical issues. Thank You very much I enjoyed watching. French design can be quite beautiful.
I considered an SM years ago and was frightened by its complexity and potential repair costs . I went for the Jensen Interceptor instead which really is the yard stick that all supercars are measured by and non of them stack up to the Jensen .
Nice choice !
Yes, they often compare the SM to the Interceptor. While the Interceptor would undoubtedly beat the SM off the line, they both had a similar top speed, but the SM managed it on an engine of less than half the cc.
Plus, on a run, the SM could manage low to mid 20mpg. You tell me what your Interceptor does.
The Interceptor is another of my favourite cars by the way, but it never captured my imagination like the SM did. It has taken me 40yrs, but I have just bought an SM, (fitted with a 3lt Marek engine.) As far as I'm concerned, the SM is beautiful from any angle.
The Interceptor just immediately addictively drew the eye to it's robust & elegant looks, before even experiencing its capabilities ... and the eye would follow it leaving with that outrageous glass conservatory of a rear screen as it pootled away ...
Reminiscing 🙂
@@silkdestroyer You mean 3lt 'Merak' engine. 😊
@@michaeld2519 Yes, I did, thanks. And I should maybe have pointed out that it is an SS engine.
Fifty-some years ago there were quite a few of these in Miami where I grew up and most of them were leased. Leasing wasn't new of course but the SM sellers & customers seemed to prefer it. It made it more affordable to drive an exclusive car. But when those leases ran out, and with the company in trouble, the cars sat on the lots for a long time and their values plummeted. With the higher cost of fuel and the risks and costs of living with a Citroen, it became a car with few friends. Ten years after they were new they all seemed to be hidden away, if they survived at all. Thanks for featuring this car!
That's so funny! I just posted that I drove a friend's CM in Miami early 70s. Coconut Grove baby! One cool car!
Had to be Orange, Monaco didn't.
Incredible car- extraordinary in the flesh. Saw one this morning at the monthly Scottish Borders classic meet.
Thanks Jack, nice driving impressions.
(Pedant's corner: 0.26-0.23 is 0.03)
More pedantry: we don't say nought point twenty-six, it's nought point two six - numbers after the decimal point are voiced individually..
@@stevemawer848 Who is "we"? Saying "point nineteen" or "point thirty four" is *extremely* common.
@@tim3172 Apologies, "we" referred to anyone remotely numerically literate. I obviously move in different circles from those you do.