With the TS being priced at 45K, an STI would be mid 50's If we're basing the pricing difference of the VA generation. I just dont see an STI being profitible for Subaru to make again
@@superbros1690You could get an even older M5 with a V10 with that price. Not everyone wants a used unreliable car. However, 40K for a non STI wrx is insane.
Subaru mechanic here, the infotainment is the absolute worst part of any new Subaru. I'm trying to reset the maintenance reminder as fast as possible, and here I am tapping the screen like a a toddler watching insurance ads in between brain rot sessions. It's so frustrating.
Everyone swears it’s not bad… I can tell you it’s bad. Had a 2015 legacy that I daily drove that infotainment was horrendous and then drove a 2023 legacy for few weeks. It was a master of lags. Sometimes it won’t even respond to touch. Don’t forget the part when you look for something in the infotainment system and the car constantly beeping at you to keep your eyes on the road lol.
the size of the infotainment doesn't fit with the rest of the interior. It reminds me of the phone with big numbers for old people. I would consider the base wrx for 32k otherwise.
@@neometalx9it’s definitely a key reason why it’s not even in my list. If they fixed the infotainment, and had a good hybrid hatchback option I’d be all for Subaru, but neither of those things are true. And I don’t want a Crosstrek either.
2:00 I had the exact same issue on my infotainment screen on my ‘21 WRX, and it was the smaller size. The issue ended up being the battery…the stock battery is underpowered for this car. On startup because it has limited battery power, it diverts all power to essential engine functions/sensors until it runs for a min and gets a good charge going. Once I put in a 750cca battery, I had ZERO issues. It just needs more juice!
@ Yeah idk what their deal is with batteries/electrical problems but I believe my battery was only 390cca…combine that with bad charging logic in the ECM and you could potentially have major issues…undervolting sensitive sensors will absolutely kill them and could damage the engine in the process. They’ve had electrical issues with certain cars in the past. Most recently it is a parasitic power draw from something inside the infotainment unit. They posted a technical service bulletin about it. There’s many other TSBs about electrical issues on Subarus…it’s all public information.
Good choice. The 2.0L FA motor in my car was pretty bad. Those engines were the wrong choice for the WRX. Constantly pulling timing, especially on hot days. Totally ruined the fun. The larger motor in your car is much better; it's the one I wish I had.
Oh no! The WRX finally goes the way of digital gauge cluster... I will concede though, being able to put the map there in a large, legible manner is a smart touch. Also nice to see auto-locking doors as you drive off! My 2020 doesn't do that.
This full digital thing its destriying 90% of the cars. We already see screen all day long and those companies want to put that on cars? All those leds its gonna mess with people's eyes
I’ve taken my ‘22 to the track several times already. It handles pretty much as good as an STI with the DCCD coming out of corners. The DCCD will probably be more useful if driven on the dirt or snow. But people are asking for DCCD and most will never even take a WRX to a track day.
2022 wrx owner here; As cool as this is, the adaptive suspension limits aftermarket coilover options and a big brake kit is in the 2-4k range for the wrx trims without Brembos. The Premium trim still is the one to get if you’re looking at new wrxs.
seeing these TS are awesome but i still don’t regret my base 23. same car in a lot of ways for 30k OTD and i never have any trouble with the infotainment
@@Notorious1000RR The cluster and seats are a negative for me. The Brembo brakes would be nice to have, but the only time you can tell a difference is on the track, which I don't do. Seems like an easy way to save $15K
I'm 73 and need to get to ski areas in northern New England. Love my 2024 Golf R DCC. It's genuinely fast, and the party tricks are fun. Or, take your grammy to church.
As a past Subaru enthusiast, I was planning on going back to a sedan after gifting our daughter my 17 Crosstrek. Was looking at the WRX, but didn’t want to have to go to premium gas or be a speeding ticket magnet. Looked at the Legacy Sport with the 260hp 2.4l turbo but very ho hum on the styling. Ended up with a 25 Honda Civic Sport Touring Hybrid - 200hp, 232lbs torque, instant acceleration and fantastic gas mileage. Oh and $5-7 grand cheaper. If I need to drive in snow, I can take my wife’s Forester. 😎
The price has officially come out post his filming and, as of this morning, courtesy of Motor 1. The WRX tS with no more horsepower and torque, but has all the bells and whistles with EyeSight Technology and manual-only sits above the 1-year only manual-only TR trim and the CVT-only GT trim and it's not even an STI. The WRX tS will cost $46,875. To put that in perspective, that is 2021 WRX STI Limited money on the VA gen and that is 2020 WRX STI Series.White money, give or take. Unless you want the fully loaded WRX tS because you want all of the bells and whistles with EyeSight Technology paired to a manual transmission outside of it just being AWD, this car is for you. If not, go get an Elantra N, FL5 Civic Type R, or spend extra money on the DE5 Integra Type S; cars with way more performance and car for the money. This car's trim will be DOA as soon as it arrives in January 2025 and unless Subaru of Japan and Subaru of America Inc reverses course of not bringing a VB gen WRX STI for the 2026MY when the VB gen WRX gets its mid-cycle refresh, the WRX as a whole will be good as dead after this generation. No one will want a CVT-only hybrid WRX or a remote control sounding WRX STe EV ever.
@@FranzJx Very fair. Oh, I've been meaning to ask if you have any public music playlists? Your vids got some sweet tunes, found some of the songs I listen to a lot through them and it got me wondering what you got sitting in the playlists
I have a 2024 VB WRX Premium, which I have owned since June of this year (2024). I have been pretty impressed with it, even though I am not getting some of the upgrades that comes with the tS trim.. Mainly the Brembo brakes. Mine is currently stock, outside of some exterior cosmetic addtions (front, side, rear under spoilers), Rae Motorsports catback exhaust and Intermediate pipe, and some suspension upgrades. Oh, and I have added some Enkei T6R wheels that were on my previous 2015 VA WRX. My 2024 WRX has the same laggy infotainment system.. it's that way across all the Subaru platforms, unfortunately. As my daily, it's a very fun car to drive. It's definitely not the fastest car out there by any means, but it handles the curvy roads with confidence when driving 'spirited'. I kinda miss my old 2015 WRX somedays, but I definitely have no regrets upgrading to the 2024 WRX and would do it again. 🤙🤙
the blue interior ruins it for me. major clash with that purple exterior. otherwise, on point. sans the pointless digital gauge cluster. they could have done so much more with that. instead they just emulated the analog gauges.
I have a 23 one and they are so undertuned from the factory they could easily add 20hp just with a more aggro tune.. although they also appear to be underrated from subaru because they dyno about 2whp below the 2021 sti on any given dyno.. the dynojets they are both in the 245ish whp and the mustangs like 238
this is awesome the seats and finally digital cluster dayumm i want one now looks really good in that color dam.. this making me rethink getting a type r a little
Speaking as someone who bought a Premium I am coming around on the TR/TS. I didn't want the adaptive dampers because I envisioned going coilovers one day. But I really want those Brembos. Just throw an accessport and a tune on this and you have an STi equivalent. Mild tunes have shown to be quite reliable on these engines.
I'd like to see a cold startup in 20 degrees F during the winter time to see how that infotainment screen works since almost all Subaru are AWD which is meant for winter conditions.
I can't believe after all the complaints from owners and the media that they're still putting that infotainment in Subie's. I had it in my 23 Outback Wilderness and that plus the laggy CVT \2.4 Turbo combo were my main reasons for selling it. It's a shame, Subaru kind of ruined their recipe that made customers love Subaru's. Hopefully their hybrids coming out with revamped infotainment will fix that stuff.
@@huie1983 I have the 22 WRX base model and the infotainment system has been just "ok" for me. The system has locked up on me about 2 times and the only way to get it to work again is to turn off the car and then turn it back on. I've also had at least 5 times where the Android auto system just doesn't like my phone. It would throw up an error saying my phone is not supported. And when it was detected, it would be incredibly laggy or just show a black screen when on Google Maps. I've had this car for almost 2 months and it is my least favorite part of the car. Its not a deal breaker for me (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it) but its not great.
@@JJFlores197 Yeah the larger system in my Outback Wilderness was laggy, locked up, would drop connection to our phones and then get stuck in a loop trying to reconnect for ~5 minutes where you couldn't do anything. Ours would also randomly drop Carplay audio over and over every 10 minutes or so randomly. Sometimes you could fix it with a reboot, sometimes not. Just not a good experience, worst infotainment I've ever had. I sold my Subaru after about a year and will keep me away from Subaru until they come out with a different system.
@@huie1983 Coming from a 2017 86, I'm just happy to have something modern TBH. My only gripe on my '23 is the lack of wireless AA, and sometimes it takes up to 30 seconds for AA to appear. My infotainment system inputs just don't seem super laggy to me or frustrating to me, but maybe I'm just lucky to not have experienced something significantly better. It sounds like it's a bit hit or miss though, and maybe the earlier versions of wireless AA/Carplay are too much for the CPU to handle.
🤷🏻♂️ I can’t think of anything else I’d rather drive other than my Golf R. I definitely wish there was an STI with more power and transmission but since there isn’t, I’d take this over anything else available. But Manual and AWD are my preferences over anything else so it’s pretty much Golf R, GRC or WRX TS as my only enthusiast options.
Awesome car looks very good, and a surprisingly good interior. The only thing that will prevent people from buying is the price, yes its a great car but at that price so many better options. If Subaru wants to make this thing a real contender at that price point they either need an STI badge, or crank up the boost from 12.8. Crank up that boost from 12.8 to 20 get some supporting parts exclusive to the tS and now maybe people will consider.
I got a 24 WRX sport tech. Great video. Lots of upgrades for this model year. That digital dash seems pretty nice. The leather trim gives the interior a nice pop. I wonder if the color is customizable or just blue. And the different driving settings seems like what the STi would have. You said everything i feel about the display unit, it could be so much better! Only reason I went sport tech was the harmon karmon. Nice to see its available in other trims now
Was looking at one of these to replace my 2017 Subaru Outback with 219k miles. The dealer wanted 51 for one. Absolutely insane money for a car that should be mid to high 30s. Let's be real, 99.9% of owners will not track the car. The big brakes just cost more to replace when they need replacing. The blue interior isn't want I wanted (same reason the Type R with the red is not even being considered). Just upsetting Subaru will not put that motor in the BRZ. Also they wont put a real transmission in the outback. The CVT is the reason I wouldn't consider another outback P.S. Ended up buying a CPO 23 Lexus GX with 11k miles for 54k out the doorI have a 4 hour commute each way for work that I do twice a week so that was the most comfortable option and I know will be bulletproof. Wish I could have gotten a good manual again but sadly they're dying out in the US. Hopefully will pay off the GX in a year then buy an old fun weekend car that will be manual.
I heard someone say that the civic had the same laggy infotainment problem and they fixed it by disabling the navigation. Navigation is very processor heavy and they probably don't have a good enough cpu or ram for it
I had a software update last week for my 2024 Crosstrek Wildnerness--basically the same infotainment system as this one. It did NOT speed up the response time:(
Looks great...nice color too. Although, I would not want a manual in NYC or L.A. I did that with a heavily modified 02 WRX for many years and my legs, azz and back were torn up. Add many burnt clutches to that and you realize at a certain point that it mozdef is NOT worth it haha! Stopping and starting and dealing w awful drivers in front of you is enough to drive you mad!
tR or tS. Since the tR was only one year,, is the tS really an upgrade for more money? I have a tR and enjoy it mainly because once i saw the tS interior it was a hard pass. adaptive dampers limit suspension modifications and are expensive to replace. i replaced the oem brembo pads with hawk ceramics. much nicer and no brake dust.
If you want all the goodies paired to the manual transmission with EyeSight Technology, then it might be worth it, especially to those who could and/or would care less about an STI. I'm just saying.
What a lot of people forget is this car was designed for torque in and out of corners. You go in slower and out faster. It’s not a drag car. Of course it’s not fast off the line. I’m not saying that people have to love it or buy it. Everyone has opinions and that’s great. However, it’s a fact that the FA24 is the best engine Subaru has made and this is the best one they made from factory. From the engine to the turbo upgrade that has an electronic waste gate design. This car and its engine layout are also more than 2k cheaper to upgrade than the last generations. And inflation wise, its price is comparable to its cost. This car engine wise is better than the old STI’s EJ’s. It’s the transmission that’s what needs an upgrade; however that changes MPG, and EPA regulations make it hard. By law they need a cross fleet average of 40mpg; the STI transmission will reduce their ability to meet that requirement. Imagine other countries that are even tougher.
@ I’m not making excuses. Just stating facts about a cars layout, engine design and the reasoning. Like it or not it’s how it is. For me I’m more of a 05 with a modded EZ from a Tribeca incorporating Porsche Boxster VarioCam since they share the same layout, as a side project. And then have a a complete overhaul of a Hawkeye STI with a FA24 since it’s the successor to Tribecca and they in theory can also be fitted with more technology. I’m into traditional tuning. Facts are facts homie.
We really need a WRX-specific flavor of this engine. It's not that it's not powerful enough (although more would be very welcome), and it is surprisingly refined, but it just feels like a fleet engine, which it is. I want a peakier, 7,000 RPM redline engine that makes power up high. My EJ20 wanted to be revved, but the FA24F, while superior in many ways, feels more like the engine you'd get in an upscale family car than in a high performance car. It's a good engine, but it's not exciting.
@@antoinelee-thomas9536 The EJ20 was basically flawless. I had to replace the radiator and hoses after blowing them at maybe 75k miles (I was the original owner). I drove the thing hard every day, all day, and it never let me down in any big way, just little minor stuff every once in a while. I gave it to my niece at like 90k miles I think and she drove it for years after that with no major problems. As per Japan, this was a 2003 in the US. The 2002 and 2003 had EJ20s (model code EJ205), I believe in 2004 we switched to the less reliable EJ25. I was always happy to have the quasi-JDM-spec engine. It sucked to drive around town like a normal person (it felt like you were driving an entry-level economy car off boost), but despite having only 227 horsepower (granted, that's not bad in 2003 for a 3100ish pound car) it felt a lot more fun than it should have. You had the peaky engine that wanted to rev for one thing, plus a ton of turbo lag. It really taught you how to manage a powerband because if you weren't careful, coming out of a turn you might be left with nothing. You had to be very active with that car to get the most out of it. The FA24 is far more responsive and has power everywhere, which on the one hand means it's much better, but on the other, it just feels like a premium nice car engine now, like what you might get in a 330i or A4. That Bugeye felt hard, visceral, cheap...it felt like a tuner car from the factory, like this is something you put together in a garage yourself, like you kind of settled for "good enough" over factory smoothness. The new WRX I drove was the opposite in many ways, the one with the FA24F. That car kind of felt like an S4 Jr with a weak interior. The steering was quite good by modern car standards, and the suspension felt way more dialed in than on my car, much more refined but not in a way that would equate to being soft, it was firm in the way a good BMW is firm. But that excitement factor, that edginess, was missing. It just didn't thrill. It's a shame, because I wanted to love it. Now I'm thinking F56 Mini Cooper as a way to get back some of those sensations.
@@DVLCHLD_10.24 I like to think of it more as a fleet engine, like the B48 or EA888. It has no specific purpose, it was designed to be an engine for premium family cars, for SUVs and crossovers, for sporty compacts, etc. As a result, it's not bad, it just has no personality.
@@elenchusI disagree. Subaru tuned this motor close to perfection from the factory coming from a previous VA STI owner. Yes the EJ had more character, but it also always threw timing under hard acceleration and it was very noticeable and quite honestly not confidence inspiring.
If this had the STI's 6 speed trans, it would be perfect. Everyone wants to yap about Subaru engines but it's actually the best engine Subaru has ever made, which is very capable with mods and reliable. The main complaint (other than the trans) would be that infotainment system. No reason tech like that should be sad bad in the year 2024/5. The body panels are an easy fix to make look good.
You actually get it. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Can we give this a man an award for saying what people should understand? 🏆🏆🏆 Yes. It does need an STI variant. VA WRX owners know this and VA WRX STI owners know this. VB WRX owners however don't care and could care less because they're satisfied with their purchase and could care less if a VB WRX STI comes to fruition or not. The infotainment is this car's biggest weak link and needs a new processor chip for much faster speeds and a backup camera that takes up the entire infotainment system's real estate, not just 1/3 or 1/2 of the screen. It needs a major programming upgrade and better backup camera quality. The fender flares are an east fix as you said because there is an aftermarket company who makes aluminum fender flares in replacement of the plastic ones and paint matches their fender flares with everybody who owns a WRX. You definitely understand for sure.
Hmmm - the hatch reduces body rigidity; my ‘23 infotainment is just fine, this car dynos only 4 HP less than the ‘21 STI (around 300 at crank)……the low redline only becomes apparent in 1st gear - the torque delivery takes care of the redline issue just fine.
I have a base 2020 WRX and I'm highly considering picking one of these up, maybe in a couple years when they hit the used market and the price falls a bit
Do you think the rev hang in other manuals (like the twins) due to the dual fuel injection? I mean sending a small amount in there after you let off the throttle to clean the valves has to be what is making it happen in things like my gr86…..and it’s bad
this is a very niche question.. do you feel like the brzs engine is too far in front of the front axle line. it looks like it in photos cant see one in person
I totalled my 2016 wrx with only 47k miles on it this past june. Hydroplaned going way to fast and flew into the woods at like 70mph, made it out with nothing but some scratches on my head from breaking glass hitting me. Now I got an ol reliable 2011 tacoma with like 170k miles. Gets me form point a to b while I save... I miss my wrx so much though. I'd like to save until the new generation STI comes out.
The pricing seems fair and high at the same time. I really want this car to be about $5K cheaper. But the seats, brakes, and adaptive suspension are worth about $10K.
$45,000 is big money for a car like this. But comparing the upgrades from the Premium trim to the tS trim it would cost around $12,000 do the same upgrades on the aftermarket. This trim is pretty much only for the Subaru enthusiast. Give me 50 more HP and 7k for the red line and I'm in (Cobb remap can do that lmao)
7:46 Yup! Can’t imagine I would grab this over the Type R. Even then 40k+ car prices are insane for a small step up from entry level sports cars. Then again I have dumped almost 15k into my RSX just this year. Can’t beat a 9000 RPM monster.😂
It's crazy how a specifically non-heated seat piece for the lack of buttons seems to be there for the center console, yet the alternative is toggled by the screen... Sigh.
Mazda3 turbo awd under 35k. Might not be as good of a sport car but over 10k cheaper and better interior. Im just liking mazda overall right now. Id like a wrx but I'm just not willing to pay that much for a daily driver, that turn inthe 60's looked fun.
I thought they completely ditched the performance models.. With how bad the car market has gotten, this one might as well just turn out to be a better option
I wish they would bring the sportwagon into the states. Minus that massive screen in the center of the dash. I would buy a new car pretty much only if its that scenario lmao
IMO the TR is a better, no nonsense trim, with great ride\handling balance without the unnecessary stuff like the adaptive suspension and fake steering boost .
I think I like this a lot, especially that purple (but get rid of the blue interior). An STI would be cool but even more expensive, and I've realized me having a car called tS would be a fantastic inside joke
I honestly prefer the VA screen or even the base model screen on the vb. The touch screens in cars looks extremely tacky. Plus takes people's eyes off the road. Just give me knobs.
The two cars are very comparable on paper, so the decision is more about subjective factors. Which one do you think is better looking? Which one drives better to you (if you can get test drives for both cars)? Sit in them at least. Is it comfortable, does it feel right from the driver's seat or somehow not for you? Trunk vs. hatch? The Toyota has a heated steering wheel, its cabin design is cleaner but also a little bland, it will probably be more reliable. The Subaru's all-wheel drive system can stand up to more punishment at the expense of fuel economy. Which dealership is closer and/or better? How do the finance numbers look? Either car is a great choice.
subaru’s making ANYTHING but the sti
lol pretty much
There’s supposed to be a new sti but it might be electric
But that gonna be in 2027 or 2028
Corolla GR made em' go back to drawing board?
With the TS being priced at 45K, an STI would be mid 50's If we're basing the pricing difference of the VA generation. I just dont see an STI being profitible for Subaru to make again
Everything about this car is pretty cool, but the price means it’s not even under consideration
What's the msrp on one of these?
Probably like 40,000-45,000
Whoever is paying the price of a golf R for this would be taking the L of the century
@@jamesj5469 who would pay that? you can literally get so many better cars with more hp around or lower price, used, like bmw m2, c43amg
@@superbros1690You could get an even older M5 with a V10 with that price. Not everyone wants a used unreliable car. However, 40K for a non STI wrx is insane.
Subaru mechanic here, the infotainment is the absolute worst part of any new Subaru. I'm trying to reset the maintenance reminder as fast as possible, and here I am tapping the screen like a a toddler watching insurance ads in between brain rot sessions. It's so frustrating.
Everyone swears it’s not bad… I can tell you it’s bad. Had a 2015 legacy that I daily drove that infotainment was horrendous and then drove a 2023 legacy for few weeks. It was a master of lags. Sometimes it won’t even respond to touch. Don’t forget the part when you look for something in the infotainment system and the car constantly beeping at you to keep your eyes on the road lol.
@@v8_sami If you aren't up-to-date on patches you are going to have issues. Been almost 2 years with mine and no notable issues
@@carsnanime4719 lmao dude is unironically telling other people to download patches for their car like that was ever an acceptable answer
@@BlastinRope It's almost 2025 now and a lot of cars get over the air updates. What are you on about?
the size of the infotainment doesn't fit with the rest of the interior. It reminds me of the phone with big numbers for old people. I would consider the base wrx for 32k otherwise.
needs a hatch, modern infotainment, 30-50 more HP, 7k redline, and this thing would be a dominating force.
at that point, the wrx would cost 50k+
at this rate I'd be content with 30 more HP
@@eatmynuggiez8911only if it is set up like the TS. Would be happy with a premium trim with all the bits mentioned by the original comment.
Literally the most conservative tune gets u there
You people and your hatches crack me up
1:51 it’s what makes a Subaru, a Subaru.
I hate that screen, I would never buy a Subaru again if they don't change it
@@neometalx9it’s definitely a key reason why it’s not even in my list. If they fixed the infotainment, and had a good hybrid hatchback option I’d be all for Subaru, but neither of those things are true. And I don’t want a Crosstrek either.
@@General_M The infotainment in my 21 Crosstrek isn't laggy, I quite like it
Had a Subaru as a rental recently. Was my most disliked feature of the car. That and the lethargic non-turbo variant I had.
I test drove a 25 Forester and aside from the pleasant but boring driving, the stupid touchscreen while driving made it an instant nope for me
2:00 I had the exact same issue on my infotainment screen on my ‘21 WRX, and it was the smaller size. The issue ended up being the battery…the stock battery is underpowered for this car. On startup because it has limited battery power, it diverts all power to essential engine functions/sensors until it runs for a min and gets a good charge going. Once I put in a 750cca battery, I had ZERO issues. It just needs more juice!
Great tip! And equally remarkable that Subaru would underspec the part and significantly impact their customers' user experience.
@ Yeah idk what their deal is with batteries/electrical problems but I believe my battery was only 390cca…combine that with bad charging logic in the ECM and you could potentially have major issues…undervolting sensitive sensors will absolutely kill them and could damage the engine in the process. They’ve had electrical issues with certain cars in the past. Most recently it is a parasitic power draw from something inside the infotainment unit. They posted a technical service bulletin about it. There’s many other TSBs about electrical issues on Subarus…it’s all public information.
i drove a 2019 hyundai kona once, that car still had the quickest infotainment screen out of many other cars i’ve driven.
have a 23 kona n-line and I am fairly impressed with how quick the screen responds, I didn't expect it tbh
Your videos were one of the big deciding factors that helped me choose my car, getting a VB over a VA. I have a 2023 WRX now!
Good choice. The 2.0L FA motor in my car was pretty bad. Those engines were the wrong choice for the WRX. Constantly pulling timing, especially on hot days. Totally ruined the fun. The larger motor in your car is much better; it's the one I wish I had.
@@mcmouse92tune it
You got it cash or doing payments?
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
@@MrArmand2134 and congrats, now you lost your warranty
So funny to me to see you drive by my brother's house in all these videos.
Oh no! The WRX finally goes the way of digital gauge cluster... I will concede though, being able to put the map there in a large, legible manner is a smart touch. Also nice to see auto-locking doors as you drive off! My 2020 doesn't do that.
My 2017 Forester doesn't do that and now my locking button is almost broken 😭
The tach and speedometer are analog; the center of the gauge cluster is digital and customizable.
@@poturbg8698 no they changed it this year to full digital
I was stunned when I realized my 2020 didnt have auto door locks. Insane that its somehow not a default feature in every car sold in the past 15 years
This full digital thing its destriying 90% of the cars. We already see screen all day long and those companies want to put that on cars? All those leds its gonna mess with people's eyes
It’s just so sad how expensive these are for what you get. It’s not even an actual STI. I would much rather get a Golf R for that price unfortunately.
So why haven't you gotten the golf r again?
@@SoulEraser000 because I already have a wrx
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
I’ve taken my ‘22 to the track several times already. It handles pretty much as good as an STI with the DCCD coming out of corners. The DCCD will probably be more useful if driven on the dirt or snow. But people are asking for DCCD and most will never even take a WRX to a track day.
Exactly. The DCCD is functional but for most ppl who are buying an STI, the it becomes an excuse to become yet another snooty STI owner.
2022 wrx owner here; As cool as this is, the adaptive suspension limits aftermarket coilover options and a big brake kit is in the 2-4k range for the wrx trims without Brembos.
The Premium trim still is the one to get if you’re looking at new wrxs.
@@drdominodog5168 I want them Brembos …
Also HKS makes a coil over set for the adaptive suspension. I just run aftermarket springs by race comp
@@TeromiYou can add the Brembos yourself by swapping over the TR/tS knuckles. The calipers are the same as last gen STi Brembos
@@Teromi You may want them but you don't need them. Pads and fluid is more than enough for 99% use cases.
No point in aftermarket coilovers when you're paying the premium price specifically for the adaptive suspension...
seeing these TS are awesome but i still don’t regret my base 23. same car in a lot of ways for 30k OTD and i never have any trouble with the infotainment
same car? but better the cluster the seats breaks etc
@@Notorious1000RR The cluster and seats are a negative for me. The Brembo brakes would be nice to have, but the only time you can tell a difference is on the track, which I don't do.
Seems like an easy way to save $15K
I'm 73 and need to get to ski areas in northern New England. Love my 2024 Golf R DCC. It's genuinely fast, and the party tricks are fun. Or, take your grammy to church.
New hampshire?
@ShawnLipke I live in Rochester, NH. I still like to think of myself as a backcountry guy (telemark), but that horse done left the barn.
As a past Subaru enthusiast, I was planning on going back to a sedan after gifting our daughter my 17 Crosstrek. Was looking at the WRX, but didn’t want to have to go to premium gas or be a speeding ticket magnet. Looked at the Legacy Sport with the 260hp 2.4l turbo but very ho hum on the styling. Ended up with a 25 Honda Civic Sport Touring Hybrid - 200hp, 232lbs torque, instant acceleration and fantastic gas mileage. Oh and $5-7 grand cheaper. If I need to drive in snow, I can take my wife’s Forester. 😎
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
old af with a golf r? Doubt it
The price has officially come out post his filming and, as of this morning, courtesy of Motor 1. The WRX tS with no more horsepower and torque, but has all the bells and whistles with EyeSight Technology and manual-only sits above the 1-year only manual-only TR trim and the CVT-only GT trim and it's not even an STI.
The WRX tS will cost $46,875. To put that in perspective, that is 2021 WRX STI Limited money on the VA gen and that is 2020 WRX STI Series.White money, give or take.
Unless you want the fully loaded WRX tS because you want all of the bells and whistles with EyeSight Technology paired to a manual transmission outside of it just being AWD, this car is for you. If not, go get an Elantra N, FL5 Civic Type R, or spend extra money on the DE5 Integra Type S; cars with way more performance and car for the money.
This car's trim will be DOA as soon as it arrives in January 2025 and unless Subaru of Japan and Subaru of America Inc reverses course of not bringing a VB gen WRX STI for the 2026MY when the VB gen WRX gets its mid-cycle refresh, the WRX as a whole will be good as dead after this generation. No one will want a CVT-only hybrid WRX or a remote control sounding WRX STe EV ever.
Looks like a very fun car to drive, love the new suspension changes, adaptive ftw...
been looking forward to this one!
3:35 yes I've fit a full size spare in my trunk under the floor
Franz on the bleeding edge of automotive industry, nice. How's the sound system?
@@K20C2-SlowI was impressed with the bass but I don’t listen to music too often while driving
@@FranzJx Very fair. Oh, I've been meaning to ask if you have any public music playlists? Your vids got some sweet tunes, found some of the songs I listen to a lot through them and it got me wondering what you got sitting in the playlists
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
@@antoinelee-thomas9536Yowza
I have a 2024 VB WRX Premium, which I have owned since June of this year (2024). I have been pretty impressed with it, even though I am not getting some of the upgrades that comes with the tS trim.. Mainly the Brembo brakes. Mine is currently stock, outside of some exterior cosmetic addtions (front, side, rear under spoilers), Rae Motorsports catback exhaust and Intermediate pipe, and some suspension upgrades. Oh, and I have added some Enkei T6R wheels that were on my previous 2015 VA WRX. My 2024 WRX has the same laggy infotainment system.. it's that way across all the Subaru platforms, unfortunately. As my daily, it's a very fun car to drive. It's definitely not the fastest car out there by any means, but it handles the curvy roads with confidence when driving 'spirited'. I kinda miss my old 2015 WRX somedays, but I definitely have no regrets upgrading to the 2024 WRX and would do it again. 🤙🤙
seeing this makes me want to cry i miss driving so bad and driving an manual ill never have this again ever never again
The previous gen was the right amount of analog. The giant monstrosity of an infotainment system is a deal breaker.
Yeah, as if the previous one still had throttle cable 😂
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
PREACH
the blue interior ruins it for me. major clash with that purple exterior. otherwise, on point. sans the pointless digital gauge cluster. they could have done so much more with that. instead they just emulated the analog gauges.
It could be worse.
That blue interior and stitching would go SO HARD in my WRB sti... my god...
I could imagine an STI with just 20 more hp, DCCD, and an increase of $15k above the WRX tS. Also dealer mark up just because it's back.
I will stick to my 2019 that I got for 34k
I have a 23 one and they are so undertuned from the factory they could easily add 20hp just with a more aggro tune.. although they also appear to be underrated from subaru because they dyno about 2whp below the 2021 sti on any given dyno.. the dynojets they are both in the 245ish whp and the mustangs like 238
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
They’d charge at least $75k and it’d still be painfully ugly
this is awesome the seats and finally digital cluster dayumm i want one now looks really good in that color dam.. this making me rethink getting a type r a little
@@Notorious1000RR Type R would be WAAAY more fun
Speaking as someone who bought a Premium I am coming around on the TR/TS. I didn't want the adaptive dampers because I envisioned going coilovers one day. But I really want those Brembos.
Just throw an accessport and a tune on this and you have an STi equivalent. Mild tunes have shown to be quite reliable on these engines.
I'd like to see a cold startup in 20 degrees F during the winter time to see how that infotainment screen works since almost all Subaru are AWD which is meant for winter conditions.
Man that digital dash is sexy! So is the blue in the interior!
I can't believe after all the complaints from owners and the media that they're still putting that infotainment in Subie's. I had it in my 23 Outback Wilderness and that plus the laggy CVT \2.4 Turbo combo were my main reasons for selling it. It's a shame, Subaru kind of ruined their recipe that made customers love Subaru's. Hopefully their hybrids coming out with revamped infotainment will fix that stuff.
I have it in my 22 wrx limited, i like it. Works great
@@juanticimo You'd be one of the very few that does not have gripes with that system. It's a hot pile of garbage for a modern vehicle.
@@huie1983 I have the 22 WRX base model and the infotainment system has been just "ok" for me. The system has locked up on me about 2 times and the only way to get it to work again is to turn off the car and then turn it back on. I've also had at least 5 times where the Android auto system just doesn't like my phone. It would throw up an error saying my phone is not supported. And when it was detected, it would be incredibly laggy or just show a black screen when on Google Maps. I've had this car for almost 2 months and it is my least favorite part of the car. Its not a deal breaker for me (otherwise I wouldn't have bought it) but its not great.
@@JJFlores197 Yeah the larger system in my Outback Wilderness was laggy, locked up, would drop connection to our phones and then get stuck in a loop trying to reconnect for ~5 minutes where you couldn't do anything. Ours would also randomly drop Carplay audio over and over every 10 minutes or so randomly. Sometimes you could fix it with a reboot, sometimes not. Just not a good experience, worst infotainment I've ever had. I sold my Subaru after about a year and will keep me away from Subaru until they come out with a different system.
@@huie1983 Coming from a 2017 86, I'm just happy to have something modern TBH. My only gripe on my '23 is the lack of wireless AA, and sometimes it takes up to 30 seconds for AA to appear. My infotainment system inputs just don't seem super laggy to me or frustrating to me, but maybe I'm just lucky to not have experienced something significantly better. It sounds like it's a bit hit or miss though, and maybe the earlier versions of wireless AA/Carplay are too much for the CPU to handle.
I love the VB! And in ts trim its even better. If I didnt have a manual Golf R, this is the all in 1 enthusiast car I'd own at any price point
Not for 47k. Nahhhhhh. No power increase, no DCCD...
🤷🏻♂️ I can’t think of anything else I’d rather drive other than my Golf R. I definitely wish there was an STI with more power and transmission but since there isn’t, I’d take this over anything else available. But Manual and AWD are my preferences over anything else so it’s pretty much Golf R, GRC or WRX TS as my only enthusiast options.
Whenever I see one of these in person puts a big smile on my face 😅
I love that interior 😮💨
I know it seems small, but sun visors that don't slide is an underrated nuisance!
Yep. Even my 2005 Ford Taurus had that.
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
7:00 - Subaru, please bring back buttons!
Awesome car looks very good, and a surprisingly good interior. The only thing that will prevent people from buying is the price, yes its a great car but at that price so many better options. If Subaru wants to make this thing a real contender at that price point they either need an STI badge, or crank up the boost from 12.8. Crank up that boost from 12.8 to 20 get some supporting parts exclusive to the tS and now maybe people will consider.
Beautiful driving! Honest opinion, worth the ~$47k price tag compared to the competition if you needed a sport daily for PA weather?
I got a 24 WRX sport tech. Great video. Lots of upgrades for this model year. That digital dash seems pretty nice. The leather trim gives the interior a nice pop. I wonder if the color is customizable or just blue. And the different driving settings seems like what the STi would have. You said everything i feel about the display unit, it could be so much better! Only reason I went sport tech was the harmon karmon. Nice to see its available in other trims now
The shifter discouraged me so got an si no regret
With that galaxy purple pearl color, I assume Subaru is going after that "Thundernight Metalic Purple" BMW M240i xDrive.
Was looking at one of these to replace my 2017 Subaru Outback with 219k miles. The dealer wanted 51 for one. Absolutely insane money for a car that should be mid to high 30s. Let's be real, 99.9% of owners will not track the car. The big brakes just cost more to replace when they need replacing. The blue interior isn't want I wanted (same reason the Type R with the red is not even being considered). Just upsetting Subaru will not put that motor in the BRZ. Also they wont put a real transmission in the outback. The CVT is the reason I wouldn't consider another outback
P.S. Ended up buying a CPO 23 Lexus GX with 11k miles for 54k out the doorI have a 4 hour commute each way for work that I do twice a week so that was the most comfortable option and I know will be bulletproof. Wish I could have gotten a good manual again but sadly they're dying out in the US. Hopefully will pay off the GX in a year then buy an old fun weekend car that will be manual.
savagegeese plug was gold
6:20 - That caught me off guard also with my 22 WRX base model. My previous car was a 2005 Ford Taurus and it did have a sliding visor.
I heard someone say that the civic had the same laggy infotainment problem and they fixed it by disabling the navigation. Navigation is very processor heavy and they probably don't have a good enough cpu or ram for it
that cluster is awesome. wish i could get that in my 17 sti lol
FINALLY A DIGITAL GAUGE CLUSTER FOR THE US
Great interior 🔥
I miss my manual, drive a Outback Wilderness now which surprisingly isn't that slow but still give me a manual!
I had a software update last week for my 2024 Crosstrek Wildnerness--basically the same infotainment system as this one. It did NOT speed up the response time:(
I see that the new WRX has DriverFocus now. You can see the orange sensor above infotainment screen at 1:39
Looks great...nice color too. Although, I would not want a manual in NYC or L.A. I did that with a heavily modified 02 WRX for many years and my legs, azz and back were torn up. Add many burnt clutches to that and you realize at a certain point that it mozdef is NOT worth it haha! Stopping and starting and dealing w awful drivers in front of you is enough to drive you mad!
Just moved upstate from nyc and being in 3-4-5-6th gear for miles on end is absolutely wild and makes you love driving stick again
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
@@antoinelee-thomas9536 Phew...quite high fro a WRX! To think of other cars you can get in the same zone for the $.
I'll bet that stereo is awesome 👌
I wish the lane centering that is on these made it’s way to the twins
I like the blue interior!
tR or tS. Since the tR was only one year,, is the tS really an upgrade for more money? I have a tR and enjoy it mainly because once i saw the tS interior it was a hard pass. adaptive dampers limit suspension modifications and are expensive to replace. i replaced the oem brembo pads with hawk ceramics. much nicer and no brake dust.
If you want all the goodies paired to the manual transmission with EyeSight Technology, then it might be worth it, especially to those who could and/or would care less about an STI. I'm just saying.
What a lot of people forget is this car was designed for torque in and out of corners. You go in slower and out faster. It’s not a drag car. Of course it’s not fast off the line. I’m not saying that people have to love it or buy it. Everyone has opinions and that’s great. However, it’s a fact that the FA24 is the best engine Subaru has made and this is the best one they made from factory. From the engine to the turbo upgrade that has an electronic waste gate design.
This car and its engine layout are also more than 2k cheaper to upgrade than the last generations. And inflation wise, its price is comparable to its cost. This car engine wise is better than the old STI’s EJ’s. It’s the transmission that’s what needs an upgrade; however that changes MPG, and EPA regulations make it hard. By law they need a cross fleet average of 40mpg; the STI transmission will reduce their ability to meet that requirement. Imagine other countries that are even tougher.
Stop making excuses. It's an embarrassment to the wrx legacy.
@ I’m not making excuses. Just stating facts about a cars layout, engine design and the reasoning. Like it or not it’s how it is. For me I’m more of a 05 with a modded EZ from a Tribeca incorporating Porsche Boxster VarioCam since they share the same layout, as a side project. And then have a a complete overhaul of a Hawkeye STI with a FA24 since it’s the successor to Tribecca and they in theory can also be fitted with more technology. I’m into traditional tuning.
Facts are facts homie.
8:23 Savage geese AKA Cobra chickens. Sorry to let them come to you guys in the US 😂
Will be waiting for new STi
We really need a WRX-specific flavor of this engine. It's not that it's not powerful enough (although more would be very welcome), and it is surprisingly refined, but it just feels like a fleet engine, which it is. I want a peakier, 7,000 RPM redline engine that makes power up high. My EJ20 wanted to be revved, but the FA24F, while superior in many ways, feels more like the engine you'd get in an upscale family car than in a high performance car. It's a good engine, but it's not exciting.
EJ20? You're in Japan then. We didn't get the 20. We had the EJ25 in North America. What's the reliability like on the EJ20 vs the EJ25?
@@antoinelee-thomas9536 The EJ20 was basically flawless. I had to replace the radiator and hoses after blowing them at maybe 75k miles (I was the original owner). I drove the thing hard every day, all day, and it never let me down in any big way, just little minor stuff every once in a while. I gave it to my niece at like 90k miles I think and she drove it for years after that with no major problems.
As per Japan, this was a 2003 in the US. The 2002 and 2003 had EJ20s (model code EJ205), I believe in 2004 we switched to the less reliable EJ25. I was always happy to have the quasi-JDM-spec engine. It sucked to drive around town like a normal person (it felt like you were driving an entry-level economy car off boost), but despite having only 227 horsepower (granted, that's not bad in 2003 for a 3100ish pound car) it felt a lot more fun than it should have. You had the peaky engine that wanted to rev for one thing, plus a ton of turbo lag. It really taught you how to manage a powerband because if you weren't careful, coming out of a turn you might be left with nothing. You had to be very active with that car to get the most out of it. The FA24 is far more responsive and has power everywhere, which on the one hand means it's much better, but on the other, it just feels like a premium nice car engine now, like what you might get in a 330i or A4.
That Bugeye felt hard, visceral, cheap...it felt like a tuner car from the factory, like this is something you put together in a garage yourself, like you kind of settled for "good enough" over factory smoothness. The new WRX I drove was the opposite in many ways, the one with the FA24F. That car kind of felt like an S4 Jr with a weak interior. The steering was quite good by modern car standards, and the suspension felt way more dialed in than on my car, much more refined but not in a way that would equate to being soft, it was firm in the way a good BMW is firm. But that excitement factor, that edginess, was missing. It just didn't thrill. It's a shame, because I wanted to love it. Now I'm thinking F56 Mini Cooper as a way to get back some of those sensations.
That’s because it literally is a family car motor
@@DVLCHLD_10.24 I like to think of it more as a fleet engine, like the B48 or EA888. It has no specific purpose, it was designed to be an engine for premium family cars, for SUVs and crossovers, for sporty compacts, etc. As a result, it's not bad, it just has no personality.
@@elenchusI disagree. Subaru tuned this motor close to perfection from the factory coming from a previous VA STI owner. Yes the EJ had more character, but it also always threw timing under hard acceleration and it was very noticeable and quite honestly not confidence inspiring.
Cool color!
For that price, I’m left wanting a little bit in terms of the powertrain. I would definitely cross shop with the golf r
So glad I got my '22 Premium for 25k. Pricing is absurd on WRXs now
sti owner here, holding the clutch in on stops makes me feel bad for the throw out bearing.
That's something my dad ingrained in my brother and I when he was teaching us to drive manual - to not hold the clutch in at stop lights.
Compared with BMW 2 Series Gran Coupe, Audi A3 Saloon, Mercedes A Class Saloon, Mazda 3 Saloon & Others, Right?
If this had the STI's 6 speed trans, it would be perfect. Everyone wants to yap about Subaru engines but it's actually the best engine Subaru has ever made, which is very capable with mods and reliable. The main complaint (other than the trans) would be that infotainment system. No reason tech like that should be sad bad in the year 2024/5. The body panels are an easy fix to make look good.
You actually get it. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽 Can we give this a man an award for saying what people should understand? 🏆🏆🏆
Yes. It does need an STI variant. VA WRX owners know this and VA WRX STI owners know this. VB WRX owners however don't care and could care less because they're satisfied with their purchase and could care less if a VB WRX STI comes to fruition or not.
The infotainment is this car's biggest weak link and needs a new processor chip for much faster speeds and a backup camera that takes up the entire infotainment system's real estate, not just 1/3 or 1/2 of the screen. It needs a major programming upgrade and better backup camera quality.
The fender flares are an east fix as you said because there is an aftermarket company who makes aluminum fender flares in replacement of the plastic ones and paint matches their fender flares with everybody who owns a WRX.
You definitely understand for sure.
An sti would be awesome...but i also wouldnt mind a wagon if this gen wrx.
If it had the sti trans then it could be worth the price. Imo the base model would be the best option
Very strange that this thing has a manual dimming rear view mirror. My 2023 base model (Canadian) has the auto-dimming rear view mirror.
Hmmm - the hatch reduces body rigidity; my ‘23 infotainment is just fine, this car dynos only 4 HP less than the ‘21 STI (around 300 at crank)……the low redline only becomes apparent in 1st gear - the torque delivery takes care of the redline issue just fine.
I have a base 2020 WRX and I'm highly considering picking one of these up, maybe in a couple years when they hit the used market and the price falls a bit
Drove one. These new VBs are painfully bland. Keep your VA and enjoy it imo
Give us the Levorg Subaru gods
Do you think the rev hang in other manuals (like the twins) due to the dual fuel injection? I mean sending a small amount in there after you let off the throttle to clean the valves has to be what is making it happen in things like my gr86…..and it’s bad
fell in love with the wrx when i test drove it but that infotainment system, holy crap it's horrible. It really killed my decision to buy one
What u get instead hoss
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
this is a very niche question.. do you feel like the brzs engine is too far in front of the front axle line. it looks like it in photos cant see one in person
That info center fits OK in any other subaru except wrx (and brz)
Wish I could get that blue trim in my 2024 WRX D:
I totalled my 2016 wrx with only 47k miles on it this past june. Hydroplaned going way to fast and flew into the woods at like 70mph, made it out with nothing but some scratches on my head from breaking glass hitting me. Now I got an ol reliable 2011 tacoma with like 170k miles. Gets me form point a to b while I save... I miss my wrx so much though. I'd like to save until the new generation STI comes out.
25:30 acceleration
I'll buy one in 2040
You better hope you're still alive around that time. LOL!
By then this car will be a dinosaur.
The pricing seems fair and high at the same time. I really want this car to be about $5K cheaper. But the seats, brakes, and adaptive suspension are worth about $10K.
$45,000 is big money for a car like this. But comparing the upgrades from the Premium trim to the tS trim it would cost around $12,000 do the same upgrades on the aftermarket. This trim is pretty much only for the Subaru enthusiast.
Give me 50 more HP and 7k for the red line and I'm in (Cobb remap can do that lmao)
7:46 Yup! Can’t imagine I would grab this over the Type R. Even then 40k+ car prices are insane for a small step up from entry level sports cars. Then again I have dumped almost 15k into my RSX just this year. Can’t beat a 9000 RPM monster.😂
I wish they would add rev match to the 6 speed.
Is it just me that had no idea this car existed until now?
It's on press tour to automotive RUclipsrs nationwide. It doesn't officially hit dealership lots and showroom floors until January 2025.
It's crazy how a specifically non-heated seat piece for the lack of buttons seems to be there for the center console, yet the alternative is toggled by the screen... Sigh.
Still don't understand how fiddling with a massive tablet on your dashboard while driving isn't considered "distracting" but using your cell phone is.
Nice Tudor BlackBay Pro 👌
Mazda3 turbo awd under 35k. Might not be as good of a sport car but over 10k cheaper and better interior. Im just liking mazda overall right now. Id like a wrx but I'm just not willing to pay that much for a daily driver, that turn inthe 60's looked fun.
I thought they completely ditched the performance models.. With how bad the car market has gotten, this one might as well just turn out to be a better option
Fun, but you can get 400hp for the same price in the Z sport. that should be the STi price
I wish they would bring the sportwagon into the states. Minus that massive screen in the center of the dash. I would buy a new car pretty much only if its that scenario lmao
AYO ITS STILL MANUAL
IMO the TR is a better, no nonsense trim, with great ride\handling balance without the unnecessary stuff like the adaptive suspension and fake steering boost .
i only care about the digital dash, hopefully all trims get it when the wrx refresh drops in 2026/27
I think I like this a lot, especially that purple (but get rid of the blue interior). An STI would be cool but even more expensive, and I've realized me having a car called tS would be a fantastic inside joke
At the very least, much as I love Honda and Civics, it's a lot more exciting than a Type R
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
2002 chevy impala next please sir topher
Interesting… it have similar interior as my Crosstrek Sport 2024
I honestly prefer the VA screen or even the base model screen on the vb. The touch screens in cars looks extremely tacky. Plus takes people's eyes off the road. Just give me knobs.
That interior is the worst thing I've seen since the early 2000's fast and furious car culture. At least it matches the design on the exterior...
Been waiting to for this vid! So what yall recommend: should I go with the Ts or GR Corolla?? About same price $.
The two cars are very comparable on paper, so the decision is more about subjective factors. Which one do you think is better looking? Which one drives better to you (if you can get test drives for both cars)? Sit in them at least. Is it comfortable, does it feel right from the driver's seat or somehow not for you? Trunk vs. hatch? The Toyota has a heated steering wheel, its cabin design is cleaner but also a little bland, it will probably be more reliable. The Subaru's all-wheel drive system can stand up to more punishment at the expense of fuel economy. Which dealership is closer and/or better? How do the finance numbers look? Either car is a great choice.
Thanks! I think it will come down to numbers $... Monthly payment and insurance.
The price officially came out this morning on Motor 1's Facebook page, the day after this was posted.
The WRX tS is $46,875 out the door.
Golf R over both of these. You'll have way more fun