If you found the Scaduview Cross site of grace, which is where Miquella divests his eye (singular), you'll notice that there is no way to reach that location aside from activating the spirit spring, which would imply to me that Miquella needed a spirit steed to reach that location
I just think of the whistle itself which I think of as the container of torrent, it’s made from woven gold, something we have seen only Miquella do before so he had to make the implement. also if you are curious about Miquellas 4 arms I’ll say how “ascension” functions in the story, the “greater will” represents a pure void from which order of all kinds arise, not really a thing as much as the result of a “magic big bang” as it were and it left a hole from which such great nothingness the greatest blessing spill “order” or “purity” or better known as “gold”, the “will” of the greater will as to say its function and why it seems to have no bias or preference, it is the spilling cup that must fill with blessings an empty canvas (this is the elden ring, or the form “order” takes), the top most arc of the elden ring (actually even looks like the lip of a cup spilling), and by ascending you become part of the order of blessing, and this means just looking at the old elden ring vs the gold age elden ring, it makes sense why things started falling apart, and also if you are curious, radagon is the closest thing to the “greater will” in the story because marika had 2 patron powers she ascended through and even though she became the goddess of life, she also had to house the other patron power inside of her and this manifests as radagon “leil dog of the golden order” she actually calls him her shadow by saying this, but not a shadow bestowed like malikath but one endowed upon her without say, he will only exist in the current order and thus will fight to preserve it, neat detail to top it off this means the hair of each character and radagons “curse” is where the other persona is sealed. But compare all of this to miquella whom simply hollowed and hallowed his body and gave it freely to an aspect of order, let’s just say there is a reason people say he would be an eternal prisoner, he basically became an induction valve for “unalloyed gold” of the elden ring which after describing what these elements are individually, doesn’t sound like the best thing does it? “pure order” sounds exactly like “mind control” to me with this story with how it’s written XD
Quite a mouthful I know, but it’s a topic that’s hard to understand not because we haven’t seen it happen but because its happened so many times it’s hard to pin a root cause on it, but just on a surface level with our current knowledge, the void that people call the greater will is the only medium “pure” or I would say empty enough, to catch the residue of the greatest and most powerful boons that being the ashes of stars or “gold”, so if you wish to become part of said medium and blessings you too would have to be “pure”
I think the animals in the Specimen Storehouse are actually answering a lot of lore questions all at once. I think that they are the same genus or species as Torrent, the Ancestor Spirits we fight are just decomposed versions of these creatures, and that they are the Divine Beasts spoken of in Hornsent legend. It is said that these creatures once flew through the skies, which is reflected in-game with how Torrent and the Ancestor Spirits jump around
@@joejoejoej9763 the talisman of all crucibles says that the first vestiges of horns appeared on giants. This guy doesn’t look like a true giant, but is likely descended from them
@@jackreacher7495 It is 100% a fact that Leonard didn't appear in the DLC fight. What are you talking about. That is fact, he then suggests his theory based on that fact. You leapt in reading.
I think it’s worth considering that Radahn may have not had a will of his own. If he is a god with a love for war as Frejya says, this goes against Miquellas vision of a peaceful world full of compassion. It makes you wonder if Miquella can truly make connections of some kind WITHOUT using his mind control or emotional manipulation.
@@garethlawton5278 I like how you get all confrontational over what amounted to Miquella's "level of care," based on the presence of the horse, which is still an assumption to make
The fact that the Hornsent's method of seeking spirituality is asceticism, to me, explains why they believe the jars turn people into Saints. People trapped in jars are forcefully separated from the World, and consequently, of it's pleasures. They become unwilling ascetics.
Also the jars are mini crucibles. Kinda disturbing how because the shamans meat or spirituality made their flesh melt easier with other meat, relegate them in the eyes of the hornsent that their only purpose in life is to be sliced and melted together. Poor women.
@@Lilbird2fyeif you knew the dev that's what you should have expected. This ain't the witcher or any other tidy story wrapped up with a bow by the end
@@Lilbird2fye thank you! It's amazing gameplay,but too many seem to be brainwashed by it calling it "perfect" and "answers so many questions ". Bro,What about Torrent? What about Ranni? Why are there two different jar warriors now apparently? One with warriors inside like Alexander or in the DLC, which are NOT the same. Why did Godwyn get retconned and replaced with Radahn with a trash boss fight? I could go on and on.
I think Miquella cast torrent aside, and melina at some pointing taking torrent under her care. I reckon that’s why out of all her pleasant dialogue that’s very formal, when giving you torrent she flatly says “treat him with respect.” She and torrent are clearly in a similar state of being in some way too.
i do believe Miquella is Torrent's former master but the only similarities that Melina has to Torrent is that they are spirits because they're technically without bodies and Roderika does prove that spirits are able to communicate with each other in way most others are unable to.
it is heavily implied Melina feels a kinship to Torrent as both are spirits, plus the DLC implies Melina's body got burned by Messmer's flame, prompting Marika to banish him to the shadow realm (lol) Melina is called the Kindling Maiden for a reason
Much simpler reason why Torrent does not leave with Melina when we get the flame of frenzy, Torrent is bound to the whistle. He has extraordinarily limited autonomy. At most, he can refuse a call. Melina is not permanently bound to some object, she can move from thing to thing, with some limits. As we inherit the flame of frenzy within Leyndell, Melina can abandon us at her leisure.
I think marika was the spirit tuner the blacksmith used to know. I also belive she was once torrents former master. Miquella is following her footsteps into god hood in the dlc so I think him riding torrent was just a way to hint at that
The spirit steed whistle is not just a plainly designed ring. It's a "delicate goldwork ring". The creator is clearly a craftsman connected to gold who can embroider golden threads with such degree of detail. Such is the art of Goldwork. Created by aomeone who is not satisfied with a plain looking needle but is "intricately crafted". The whistle was created with intent. Perhaps the whistle tone it creates can only be answered by a specific steed. The mystery for me is how she knows of Torrent, by name, and how the ring ended up with Melina.
@@ace-smithNot Marika technically but Radagon. He owns the gold needle not Marika. Whether it is on her before or after creating Radagon is a whole different can of worms.
Don't think Torrent is necessarily young. The land of shadow for example has large sheep but that doesn't necessarily mean the other sheep eventually grow to their size. Another example is Gransax, Greyoll and whoever that skull in Farum and corpse at Jagged Peak belong to. Those dragons are massive but it doesn't mean the others will grow to their size. Bayle is called the "oldest, vilest dragon of them all" by Florissax and yet he's not that big.
The biggest problem I have with connecting torrent and Miquella is that the timeline doesn't make sense to me. So Miquella only had access to the land of shadow after being kidnapped by Mogh and was waiting for Radahn to be killed. His journey across the land of shadow divesting his parts is happening as the tarnished is also journeying the land of shadow and we are just behind him. (Evidenced by his great rune breaking as we are getting close to shadow keep) So that means that his journey is happening by the time we are already been given torrent. As unsatisfying it is it makes more sense if it's just another spectral steed.
I think his journey happened long ago and we are just retracing his steps. I think miquella was actually the one to place enir illim in that shadow state.
The shattering war took 5000 years to reach the point where Marika was like, "f this, a tarnished would be better suited". Miquella had left the lands between a long time before the start of the game. Time has little meaning to demigods and regular ppl when the land itself has no true death.
@@Silly_Illidan Well I will be fine with that explanation if his rune didn’t break while we were exploring the land of shadow. I don’t think there is anyone who would or can break his rune other than Miquella himself. So the implication is his journey of becoming a God was not done by the time we reach the land of shadow.
@@Silly_Illidan Sorry I should’ve been clearer. I was not talking about resurrecting radahn and become god part of his journey but more about when he was shedding himself around the land of shadow part.
The statues on the stone coffins are depictions of a spectral steed. I thought they were bulls at first until I noticed they had horse hooves. I think Torrent is the Lands Between equivalent of the grim reaper. Ferrying souls to the afterlife. Miquella's original body is clearly deceased. Torrent brought his spirit to the land of shadow.
I think nobody is mention in us that why the Tarnished has the bewitched branch as part of his customization. Curious for this to be answered one day………
It's very simple man, Melina and torrent where acting as agents on behalf of Miquella. This item either marked us or it could have been used from the beginning and we had been a sleeper agent the whole time. Leda killed all the needle knights so she ruined miquella other set of knights and is "why" we don't see them until the dlc.
I think Miquella planned his own death, St.Trina is a part of him so when she asks us to end Miquella who is currently paving out his own damnation, it is also Miquella's wishes as well. By the time of the dlc Miquella had betrayed himself and everything he stood for. He wished for death.
Melina might get a Tarnished that will burn the tree and bring back Destined Death so she'll do this one thing for Miquella. As for Ranni, i guess she owed him a favor or something? Miquella props us up so that we can kill Radahn since he calls us "Champion of the Festival" but this plan seems either 300 IQ or just plain luck that things would fall into place so well
I wonder if Ranni was disguised as Renna when she got the Spirit Calling Bell from Miquella? It does seem very significant that she tells us she's Renna when we first meet her. And there is a puppet of Anna at Rabbath's Tower in the Land of Shadow so it is possible the Carians there could have made another Renna puppet for Ranni to inhabit. And I do like the idea that Miquella is running a max Charisma and Luck build in Elden Ring. Truly, there is nothing more terrifying...
@@garrulousgoldmask As far as i know there is zero connection between Miquella and Renna so the Renna thing might be because she wants to keep a low profile, as per Rogier she hasnt been seen in some time, "this guy doesnt know me so i might as well give him a fake name" wouldnt want some BK assasins to track you down. Also i dont think "Marionet possession" is the same as Puppetry since ones process is unknown to us and the other needs a living recipient to drink a potion so that they can serve as a... well puppet
I have a theory that Miquella is actually a Co conspirator in Rannis Night of Black Knifes, in stealing a fragment of the Rune of death. And with Melina guiding us and Miquellas items in our possession he might have put a charm on us from the very beginning to enable his plan, which would make sense.
Remember that Ranni and Miquella share the same objective. Ranni wants Radahn dead since he is blocking the stars, hence interrupting the becoming of her fate. Miquella intends to use his sould for his own purposes. They might have come up with an alliance
I'm under the impression that most of the biggest events in the LB are casualties of a proxy war between Miquella and Ranni. Like someone else said, they have the same goals, but I think that makes them enemies. If we assume Godwyn was Miquella's first choice for consort, it suddenly makes sense why Ranni would target him, specifically. She manages to both stop Miquella and divest her own flesh (which seems like an important part of the process) After failing to revive Godwyn with the Eclipse mentioned in Castle Sol, he sent Malenia after his second choice, Radahn. I think it's important to note that Redmane Castle is geographically as far away from the Haligtree as absolutely possible. I think Radahn fears Miquella's compulsion. We never knew why Radahn was holding back the stars, since him and Ranni didn't seem to have any grudges. But if we assume it was actually to stop Miquella, and Ranni's fate was just a casualty, it makes more sense. Also, it's possible the amber starlight is Miquella's discarded fate, maybe to circumvent this. Anyway, killing Radahn was the trigger for the next phase of his plan, which nobody could do until you came along.
There are some timeline issues others have pointed out, but Ranni meeting Miquella in the land of shadows after divesting her flesh to receive the spirit calling bell and Melina meeting Miquella in the land of shadows after some unknown death to receive torrent; For both to return to the lands between and give it to the tarnished is a very interesting proposal. Then again we could go by the age old Miyazaki method and say that time is convoluted. Time in the land of shadows could be warped as opposed to the lands between.
I hear people in the comments talking about Radahn’s lack of will. Ansbach, Miquella’s biggest hater himself, said that he doesn’t believe that Miquella understands the ramifications of his own actions. St. Trina also confirms this. I don’t think Miquella has a good understanding of others’ feelings.
Torrent was definitely Miquella’s horse I think even before the dlc. In the blue fields, and the fissure there are huge monuments with Torrents head on it. He could’ve been more St. Trina’s mount especially considering death is heavily associated with cold weather and water, and Torrent means a heavy storm. At first I thought he could’ve been Godwyn’s but now Miquella makes more sense.
so melina gets the steed then gives it you because miquella knows you eventually go to land of shadows and need torrent for it ? as miquella didnt do some things without good reason for own gain.
Ranni has a different Dialog if you deny having Torrent twice. She will leave those items there and will tell us she is supposed to give us those items "at the behest of Torrents Former Master" which would link Miquella to Ranni and Melina in a very significant way that not a single Souls Lore RUclipsr dares to point out.
Ranni and miquella both want the same thing but have different methods or concepts of what peace is. Ranni believes it’s freedom and everyone having their own choice to do what they want. Miquella means it in a literal sense of nobody physically harming each other or making their ill intentions known and is willing to take control of the population to do so. They definitely could have met at some point in time in the lore way before our tarnished comes into the picture and that’s why they’re both so bent on doing what they want. It’s not only because they feel strongly about it, but because they think it’s a race between who will achieve their dream first. Idk I’m just spit balling as I’m taking a shit at my job in PetSmart so I don’t know shit
@@LeftyPantaridis I know all that stuff. Believe me, I have my own cracktheory regarding the relationship of these 2 and I swear you would only find like 2 soulslore RUclipsrs to even bring it up, and not 1 that even made a Video about the possible connection they have.
@@bobdylanlovr69 Well, Ranni has never actually told us how she stole a fragment of the Rune of death, there is also not a single piece of Information on how she did that. Yes, the Knife Print exists and is an undeniable proof that she used it on the Black Knifes In a Ritual, that doesn't tell us how she did the stealing of the fragment though. Which is where Miquella comes into play. He has the means to steal the fragment from Maliketh, being able to charm people or put them to sleep are very useful abilities to have, he has the motive, to become a god and replace the golden Order, and in that He has a common goal with Ranni, the Downfall of the Golden Order. This Idea is mainly supported by the placements and behaviour of the BKAs found ingame, which is a lot to explain, just remember the 5 dead ones that attacked Rannis allies at near the end of her questline and the 3 you find in Ordina, 2 alive and 1 dead. There is also the very big contradiction that Ranni would do Miquella a favor even though He tried to kill Radahn using Malenia, or Miquella even working With Ranni when she is behind the plot to kill Godwyn, who was apparantly very dear to Miquella and Malenia. If they weren't already working together to Set the Events of the Shattering into motion then their cooperation later down the line to manipulate YOU the Tarnished wouldn't make sense. And im fairly certain that it is impossible that Miquella and Ranni Set this up before everything went down. I could go more into Detail, but that's the general gist of it.
@@TheRealJohnuxLeft a theory on Smoughtown’s Godwyn Prince of Death video. Basically my theory was that Ranni and Miquella were behind the Night of Black Knives, but Ranni betrayed Miquella in order to achieve her Age of Stars. Godwyn was meant to be the first demigod to die a true death, now I believe it was to act as Radahn’s original vessel, not Mohg. Or at least that’s what I believe after the DLC.
I've been wondering why Torrent is helping the player given that we end up taking Miquella down and ruining his plan. Maybe Torrent also had a charm broken when the great rune breaks, maybe Torrent is a shadow-bound beast that turns on Miquella like Blaidd with Ranni, or maybe Torrent is more of a St. Trina fan and knew Miquella was cooked on his current path?
@@bobdylanlovr69 I could be missing something but I've only seen things that animals do. Like having trust for certain people or sizing up their capabilities. Though if you're meaning something more complex I'd be happy to hear what quotes you're referring to
People keep coming back to Rogier saying that Ranni hasn't been seen and speculate on the reason for this but isn't it just that she no longer has her old body and as such doesn't look like herself anymore? She apparently goes by the name of Renna and I mean who would recognise her? I don't really think there's more to it than that
I think that Miquella experimented on Torrent and sent him to the shadow lands first. If he was able to send him and use the bell to call him back he'd know it worked. He then did the same process on himself. I think it lines up thematically with Miquella discarding those close to him. Torrents design is similar to that of a real life Shetland Pony, but hes bigger than a shetland pony. But If Miquella was child sized it makes a little sense hed have a small horse. And if his horse was forever small it makes a bit of sense he use that as a way to look into his own affliction. Miquella grows up when he goes to the shadow lands, I think we are seeing that with torrent as well. I think torrent used to be small and not have horns.
Perhaps Torrent was drawn to St. Trina, and when Miquella eventually abandoned her, Torrent took that as a betrayal and abandoned Miquella in turn. It might also be the case that Trina kept the whistle when abandoned, and hoped that an Elden Lord found by Torrent would eventually battle Miquella and could kill him. Trina may have reached out to Melina and Ranni at different times due to her strained existence, only being able to make limited contact and provide a limited number of items. Additionally, considering that Ranni tried to kill Miquella and Malenia during the Night of the Black Knives (hence the assassins at Ordina), Ranni would probably accept a plan that involves killing another one of Marika's children. As such, Melina would be contacted because she'd help Torrent find an Elden Lord, who'd either seek to kill Miquella or have to defend him/herself from Miquella and likely kill him in the process. Ranni would be contacted because she'd give the bell to whoever she thought had the best chance of using it for the sake of killing Miquella.
When the dlc was first announced, I theorized that the story involved the Tarnished getting trapped in Miquella’s cocoon dream and you and him have to work together to escape. As you travel across the landscape, Miquella would ride on Torrent with you, and either walk when you walk or simply disappear with the horse until you summon him.
@@TheShadowOfHumanity This was when the DLC was first released and we didn't know much about the story, though I will say that I theorized that he probably either would have been the final boss or could become the final boss depending on your actions. My thoughts were that either he secretly had dubious motives because nobody is completely innocent in a Soulsborne game, or he would get varying levels of pissed off at you depending on how long it takes for him to learn you killed Malenia, since I figured that beating her would have been a requirement for unlocking the DLC that involves her brother.
Great video! I think it was clear to me that torrent was being shown as miquella's steed since that concept art. People get mad over the timeline issues, but i think the lack of it is the point. We are deliberately not meant to know a lot of things in these games.
Game and haligtree: shows Miquella and Malenia affection to the death and probably their lascivious love (which is normal among gods) Dlc: miquella being randomly interested in radahn
Already did! I compared Goldmask and Ranni's endings with Miquella's Age of Compassion in my video on the final boss: ruclips.net/video/zGEAO1pciHI/видео.html
Our Torrent never lost hope in his lord, a lord he chose to serve as he kept believing in us even after choosing the frenzied flame. The only thing Torrent feared most. And everyone keeps praising Radahn's leonard. Torrent was the real one from the start.
The DLC has been rewritten late into development, as such the trailer and the promo art are more than likely to not correspond to whatever lore we got in the final product.
@@societyman6591 I mean, they removed a whole ending cutscene and replaced it with that lame and pointless memory that says exactly the same thing as the NPCs before it, I still fail to see why they would put that memory as ending cutscene when it tells absolutly nothing new.
@@BaldorfBreakdowns Miquella has a cut ending from the base game that was datamined, and there is zero indication it involved Radahn in any way whatsoever. If you look at Miquella's eyes (which we never see in the DLC) they have an eclipse symbol around the pupils. It's pretty clear they didn't know what to do with Miquella, but what we got was uniquely terrible.
@@societyman6591 Okay. So content was cut. That's nothing new for any game ever made. When was it cut? No one knows. But will they act as if they do? Absolutely. There *is* proof there was no extra writing for the DLC, which means this story was already written. It's funny how much people assume they know the development process and how the story was supposed to go.
Everyone seems to forget that when you 1st get the ability to summon spirits from Ranni,she says “I was entrusted to give these to you,by Torrents former master.” Meaning whoever that master was,told Ranni to grant us the ability to summon,meaning this mysterious “master” has wanted to help us from the start of the game.
Miyazaki confirmed that it was Miquella in the concept art but he never said that it was Miquella riding Torrent! I think Torrent belongs to Melina not Miquella as Torrents former master can still apply to Melina
Very perceptive! That's why I made sure to say that Miyazaki only confirmed it was Miquella in the image. The main issue I have with Melina being Torrent's original master is why didn't she also give us the Spirit Calling Bell as well? It seems a bit too complicated for Melina to give the bell to Ranni when she could have just given it to us as well. (For Miquella, that could be explained by him giving away the whistle and the bell at different times, which makes it a bit less convoluted.)
At best Torrent can refuse to be summoned but he only ever does it out of genuine fear. Why he then still lets us summon him when we accept the Frenzied Flame is a mystery (beyond gameplay reasons) but I feel like there is an answer to that. Might be a slight meta thing of "knowing" most players won't choose the Frenzied Flame ending outside of the achievement, only its more about knowing that the Tarnished won't willingly hurt Torrent in a way that matters (since Torrent can be "hurt" in gameplay but that is only the physical manifestation of his spirit). This is all to say that he lets Melina know that he trusts the Tarnished (the player) to succeed in "fixing" the world but he can't move about without someone using the ring whistle, while Melina is not bound to a physical object.
I believe that when Rogier says that Ranni has not been seen in a long time, he refers to redhead Ranni which is located atop a tower burned by destined death. And the Ranni that we know was simply acting as a random sorcerer around Liurnia, the lands of sorcerers.
That could be it! Though now that you mention it, I wonder if Ranni has been hiding in the Renna puppet body since the Night of the Black Knives. And thank you so much!!
@@garrulousgoldmask I love talking about lore, your video was so good! Glad I can be of help :D I would believe she did that with the rune of dead after that night, she could have used the killing of Godwin's soul as a first experiment or test, then use it on herself to kill her own body but not her soul. It would have sucked if she tried to do it the other way around, just to end up failing to do it properly after all...
It's always great to come across another lore aficionado! As for the Night of the Black Knives, we do know that the ritual on Godwyn and Ranni was performed at the same time and on the same night the Rune of Death was stolen (Cursemark of Death description). But it would make sense if Ranni tried to do a short test run while the Assassins got into position. (Also, it would be amazing to see the NotBK as an HBO episode or film!)
@@garrulousgoldmask I swear Elden Ring as a movie or series like GOT would be one of the greates pieces of art in the past 10 years, the best part is that some of the community actually make fanart that is just that good simply because they got the kick for it lol
I always thought the ancestral followers were descendants of the elden jon society, since every place we find them in the main game has ruins of that culture. With that in mind, theres a cookbook that talks about hornsent scholars studying spirit techniques lost to antiquity, and I personally think this refers to them exploring the ruins and redoscovering these lost elements of that culture. Shamans are also generally associated with less advanced civilisations as well, the cultures that built a cient megolithic structures like stonehenge in England or the Hypogean in Malta, for example.
What happened to Miquella and Godwyn? What happened to Miquella’s Haligtree? If Miquella enchanted Mohg from inside the Haligtree, how did he do it? Did St. Trina assist him, and if so, why did he toss her away if she was fully supportive and complicit in his plans? If Miquella was stolen and the Haligtree failed as a result, why did he not try to build another Haligtree since it was clearly working? Why does Miquella abandon his flesh twice, once in the Mohgwyn palace and again in the Land of Shadow? When was Miquella stolen? Since the DLC confirms he was present at the battle between Malenia and Radahn, does that mean he cocooned himself in the Haligtree afterwards, and somehow Mohg broke in and stole him with all of Malenia’s and Miquella’s troops there after the battle? If Miquella charmed Mohg before being stolen, why cocoon himself in the first place? Did he cocoon himself with the plan of his Haligtree failing and being stolen? If Malenia knows Miquella plans to enter the Land of Shadow, why is she waiting in the Haligtree for his return when everyone knows Mohg stole him? Why doesn’t Malenia kill Mohg since that’s part of Miquella’s plan? Why are none of Miquella’s followers present during the Radahn festival since killing Radahn is also part of Miquella’s plan?
I agree with you on a lot of these questions but if I had guess with Mogh it was just him improvising cause there is now way Mogh was originally apart of his plan
@@brandonsmith6790 If Mohg just randomly kidnapped Miquella white he was sleeping in his tree it’s very weird the DLC tries to make me believe Mohg was innocent and Miquella just charmed and sacrificed him for no reason. Seems more like sleepy self-defense in that case.
Miquella decided to enter his tree when malenia marched to caelid. His haligtree was successful and it is what allow st.Trina to appear in him as he started to become a God. Mogh was likely charmed sometime after malenia failed but before she got to the haligtree. Mogh decided to cut miquella in part due to a fanatical desire and also maybe because the formless mother persuaded him to do so. Whatever the reason mogh screwed over miquella and killed him. Miquella now in the land of shadow probably met torrent and they traveled around the land of shadow. They likely discovered Marika past and how she ascended and also there they met Melina. Miquella and Melina likely then deiced to use a tarnished for their personal schemes. They could not use miquella needle knights because Leda killed them all in some fanatical purge. Nor his haligtree forces because of reasons.
I honestly do not think Miquella was Torrents previous owner, or the owner of the spirit calling bell. It doesn't even make sense. How did Torrent get to the lands between? Did Miquella somehow make two trips? Plus, why would Ranni help Miquella? Is she charmed? Clearly not, shes working against his goals. I honestly think the most likely option is Renalla, or Ranni herself.
Pretty sure out of anything the DLC confirmed what Torrent is and where they came from. Torrent is a creature of the Crucible, it’s an animal with horns and it’s former master was likely Hornsent
A side note but the large Coffin/Ships? In the Blue/Purple areas also have a what looks like a Torrent bust at the helm of each one. Not sure about the lore connections there but have at it.
After playing the dlc I kinda assumed that torrent was a divine beast. Torrent, from what I understand, has the ability to control or use wind to his and by extension your benefit. When you dodge while mounted, Torrent speeds up leaving what looks like steams of air, in order to get to higher levels Torrent jumps through the spirit springs which look like little tornados, and he has those horns on his head. There aren’t any living divine beasts ( unless the hippo is one lol) but from the dancing lion fight and divine beast warriors we know that they could harness the powers of the elements including wind. And there is evidence that supports that divine beasts were not just lion-like creatures, in the specimen storehouse there are many corpses of large animals which have many sprouting horns and depict having hooves. It’s not directly stated that these are divine beasts, but it is stated that Messmer sought out divine beasts to eradicate them, the storehouse is located within the black keep, ie. Messmers house, so it’s not too out there to assume that these corpses are divine beasts hung up like trophies or for studying. So I came to the conclusion that torrent is a young divine beast that was looked after and/or saved by miquella and then given to us. Or because torrent is summoned with a bell chime sound he is the spirit ashes of a divine beast but these ashes were “blessed” by miquella to make him the perfect steed. I haven’t watched many lore vids since the dlc was announced, most of what I have typed is speculation from reading item descriptions, and making connections where I saw them. I also started typing before watching so I hope I’m not just saying the same thing just in a less coherent no way lol.
If you put the edge of your tongue on the roof of your mouth behind your teeth the pronunciation of the “R” sound becomes much easier❤ not trying to be rude I used to have an issue with it too. This is how it was described to me when I figured out how to make the sound 😊
As much as i would like this, Torrent jsut seems to be another spectral steed like any other. The timeline itself doesn't make sense since Miquella cannot gain acess to the land of shadows until we defeat Mohg, that was his plan in the first place he's traversing the land at the same time as we, the player, are doing so. So as much as i would've loved for that to be torrent in the artwork, it has to be just another steed fro mthe same species as torrent
Nope, he has 4! The lower left arm is there but it can be obscured by Miquella's mane of hair. You can see it in some of the close-up shots when Miquella is embracing his consort.
@@garrulousgoldmask it’s not obscured by his hair it just fades into nothing. I’m not sure why he only has three arms and not four, it’s a weird detail but maybe there is some lore reason?
i mean most of the theory makes sense but i genuinely makes more sense its just Melina considering it makes significantly more sense if she is the Gloam Eye'd Queen and the Frenzied Flame ending warning/ cutscene has an actual connection with torrent and her. Ranni and Melina clearly now each other since She knows Torrent and knows exactly WHO gave him to you
I mean it's pretty obvious Torrent is a creation (the ring) of miquella. It's made from unalloyed gold and only a master craftsman like miquella who created malenia's arm and legs would be able to create such a weird amazing device.
I think the pic shows miquella when he entered the land of shadow and then abandoned torrent in which Melina came across him, the events of the game and dlc take place way before the tarnished arrived, I don’t think we are in some sort of pursuit of miquella but he’s been there for awhile and we finally caught up,
It's important to note that Ranni hadn't been seen due to the fact that her corpse is hidden at her divine tower protected by a godskin noble. Only her inner circle is aware that she's in the Renna doll. Only Rogier had an inkling of what was actually going on besides the Tarnished.
I think the Bell and Ring are artifacts crafted by Miquella during the halcyon days of the Age of the Golden Order, his first delves into the nature of spirits and maybe even the Land of Shadow, the bell he later gave away to Ranni, and asked her to bestow it upon whoever was given Torrent's ring (because Miquella needed someone to finish off both Radahn and Mohg, most likely a Tarnished, and both items would've been useful for this task) which he later gave to Melina, whom he may have met as he first dove into the Land of Shadow (explaining him riding Torrent into the Land of Shadow) before Melina was reborn by Marika, because he knew Melina's purpose would lead her to assist a Tarnished in a way that would align with his plan. edit: now that I think about it, maybe Miquella even charmed Ranni so she'd give the bell to Torrent's rider
When you get to the Volcano Manor for the first time and if you went there by yourself (as opposed to being teleported by Rya), Tanith praises you for making it on your own and speaks of another "guest" from long ago who came by himself. Realistically it must be Bernahl but for some reason I always suspected it was Miquella.
Torrent is the name of the spectral steed that we the protagonist use. When you meet Ranni posing as Renna at the church of Elleh she refers to torrent as a spectral steed. This implies that a spectral steed is another type of being that exists in the lands between. Given Miquella’s inherent ability to charm it’s likely that he charmed anoyher nameless spectral steed. Sorry there’s nothing here
I thought we were going to find this other horse and it would work in the Abyssal Woods. unless Torrent can exist in more than one place at a time, because Miquella is traveling in the land of shadow when the player already has Torrent.
Is it possible that Torrent was once equivalent to Miquella's Shadow that he cast aside? The way (even though most aren't Shadow/Empyrean): Maliketh was to Marika Serosh was to Godfrey Blaidd was to Ranni Leonard was to Radahn Eiglay was to Rykard Red Wolf was to Radagon Base Serpent was to Messmer Gaea was to Gaius (Etc.)
When you first meet Ranni, she knows that your spirit summons name is Torrent. And if you keep lying to her that you don’t have Torrent, she will just leave the spirit summon bell down anyways on the “behest of the torrent’s former master”. So this shows that she not only knows Torrent well, but also his former master. And once you find the finger slaying blade for her, she comments warmly that she should thank Torrent for helping you too. Her genial attitude towards Torrent here further shows that she probably knows Torrent pretty well and, in extension, its former master. So, it will make sense that if Torrent used to belong to Miquella, Ranni’s half brother. And I can totally imagine Ranni having a pretty friendly, if not close relationship with Miquella before the shattering since they both seem to be the black sheep of their family.
I like to think that torrent was always miquellas. As melina says she was tasked with handing it over and this Miquella says we are his follower champion of the festival. It’s like Miquella knew he needed us to get him that far but realise he needed someone ferocious to do it and that’s why he fights us and charms us. Because we are too strong. But he needed someone too strong he just underestimated his godhood
Rennala can also summon spirits. Maybe she is the former master Renna talks about? Although, I still believe that torrent's former master is Melina. Ranni not talking about Melina is just one of these games quirky things to keep the mystery in the air. Although the whistle is described by being a delicate goldwork, and we know who handcrafts gold tools, Miquella. Idk, its so confusing.
I think inherently each Tarnished is chosen by the Two Fingers to become the 'body' part of the mind/body/spirit perfection of the god we choose to elevate. As chosen ones, the Demigods/Outergods are fated to attempt to influence us to get our help in their plans. Miquella was the most altruistic (at first) so maybe he offered Torrent as an almost-but-not-quite version of Shadow Bound beast much like Melina was able to be a sort of Finger Maiden. I think when dismissed, he returns to Miquella's side.
Is it just me… or at 5:50 it shows miquella throwing away a part of him? You can see something flying away on his right and it looks like his arm was stretched out to throw and he is brining his arm back😮.. his arm is hidden behind is flying hair but you can just see it…😮😮😮
SPOILERS. The picture was just a teaser of what would happen if we, the Tarnished fell into Miquella's charm. Miquella would then steal everything from us, Torrent included. HEART STOLEN appears if he grabs us 2 times during fight. It's complicated to explain but the picture works like a frame of The Lord of Frenzied Flame ending in wich Melina retrieves the ring that we use to call Torrent. Everything is lost, included our most loyal companion.
Since Marika is a shaman, Torrent a spirit and is Melina, the daughter of Marika who gives you torrent. I always have thought that torrent was Merika's horse
It seems to me that ancestral followers grow horns when they die. The Item we get from the ancestral rememberance implies that the horns on the ancestor spirits grow buds when followers die. Implying that new buds grow on death of the followers. If thats true, ancestor spirits are literally the amalgamation of ancestors spirits in the form of a giant horned deer.
Great video! I am curious if anyone has talked about any evidence of giants missing in the Shadow realm. Maybe there is evidence of giants and I missed it, I could be wrong. It's just odd that there is so much evidence of giants all over the Lands Between but it's extremely scarce at best, if non existent in the Shadow realm. I haven't seen anyone speak to this in theory just yet. Thanks again for the video.
Thank you! There is the Ancient Meteoric Ore Greatsword, which is a double misnomer since it's a colossal sword in the game but was "fashioned from an excavated shard of an arrowhead that once was a part of the old gods' arsenal." Given how massive it is, I think this was used by the giant giants. And the reference to the "old gods" (only mentioned in this weapon) also makes me think of the Divine Towers.
There’s a lot here that I have to fundamentally disagree with. The raisin description is tenuous at best as it is providing the mechanical benefits of the item. It in no way indicates the recipe was made explicitly for Torrent. While yes Miquella is known to be a craftsman of gold objects, that’s kind of the whole deal with the Golden Order, so it’s a huge stretch to say that he is responsible for this specific item when that sort of stuff is lying around all over the place. We also know for a fact that Miquella’s journey through the Shadowlands is happening concurrently with our own, meaning the spectral steed he is using in the promotional art cannot be Torrent. It almost certainly couldn’t be Miquella and Torrent at a time prior to the current events because we can see the spectral gravestones (meaning the image 100% happens after Messmer’s crusade) and Miquella couldn’t get through the veil until our business with Mohg. Honestly with the specimen storehouse and everything else we know for a fact, the only reasonable conclusion to come to is that Miquella is simply riding a different beast of the same breed. There’s definitely some good stuff here concerning the ancestral worshippers though, I think they deserve a big deep dive with the new context given to us by the DLC.
O'Niel and Niall worked for the Storm Lord which is why they can summon banished knights. No idea why one's at Castle Sol and the other at Swamp of Aeonia, pbbly some earlier version of the game or they just didn't know where to put them. Also why Niall has a prosthetic leg that can summon wind and lightning
If you found the Scaduview Cross site of grace, which is where Miquella divests his eye (singular), you'll notice that there is no way to reach that location aside from activating the spirit spring, which would imply to me that Miquella needed a spirit steed to reach that location
Oh great find! And that Miquella Cross is also where he abandoned his eye (and his Empyrean lineage) too!
I just think of the whistle itself which I think of as the container of torrent, it’s made from woven gold, something we have seen only Miquella do before so he had to make the implement.
also if you are curious about Miquellas 4 arms I’ll say how “ascension” functions in the story, the “greater will” represents a pure void from which order of all kinds arise, not really a thing as much as the result of a “magic big bang” as it were and it left a hole from which such great nothingness the greatest blessing spill “order” or “purity” or better known as “gold”, the “will” of the greater will as to say its function and why it seems to have no bias or preference, it is the spilling cup that must fill with blessings an empty canvas (this is the elden ring, or the form “order” takes), the top most arc of the elden ring (actually even looks like the lip of a cup spilling), and by ascending you become part of the order of blessing, and this means just looking at the old elden ring vs the gold age elden ring, it makes sense why things started falling apart, and also if you are curious, radagon is the closest thing to the “greater will” in the story because marika had 2 patron powers she ascended through and even though she became the goddess of life, she also had to house the other patron power inside of her and this manifests as radagon “leil dog of the golden order” she actually calls him her shadow by saying this, but not a shadow bestowed like malikath but one endowed upon her without say, he will only exist in the current order and thus will fight to preserve it, neat detail to top it off this means the hair of each character and radagons “curse” is where the other persona is sealed. But compare all of this to miquella whom simply hollowed and hallowed his body and gave it freely to an aspect of order, let’s just say there is a reason people say he would be an eternal prisoner, he basically became an induction valve for “unalloyed gold” of the elden ring which after describing what these elements are individually, doesn’t sound like the best thing does it? “pure order” sounds exactly like “mind control” to me with this story with how it’s written XD
Quite a mouthful I know, but it’s a topic that’s hard to understand not because we haven’t seen it happen but because its happened so many times it’s hard to pin a root cause on it, but just on a surface level with our current knowledge, the void that people call the greater will is the only medium “pure” or I would say empty enough, to catch the residue of the greatest and most powerful boons that being the ashes of stars or “gold”, so if you wish to become part of said medium and blessings you too would have to be “pure”
I think the animals in the Specimen Storehouse are actually answering a lot of lore questions all at once. I think that they are the same genus or species as Torrent, the Ancestor Spirits we fight are just decomposed versions of these creatures, and that they are the Divine Beasts spoken of in Hornsent legend. It is said that these creatures once flew through the skies, which is reflected in-game with how Torrent and the Ancestor Spirits jump around
👍👍 jep
Nice!
What about the giant dude?
@@joejoejoej9763 the talisman of all crucibles says that the first vestiges of horns appeared on giants. This guy doesn’t look like a true giant, but is likely descended from them
Exactly but without a cutscene and the game reading that to you the mouth breathers that can’t read inbetween the lines are mad and blind to this
The fact that Miquella didn't summon Leonard as a spirit steed shows that he doesn't understand/care about Radahn
That's such a leap to consider a fact
@@jackreacher7495 It is 100% a fact that Leonard didn't appear in the DLC fight. What are you talking about. That is fact, he then suggests his theory based on that fact. You leapt in reading.
It was Rahdan’s compassion to Leonard that prompted Miquella to claim him as a consort…
I think it’s worth considering that Radahn may have not had a will of his own. If he is a god with a love for war as Frejya says, this goes against Miquellas vision of a peaceful world full of compassion. It makes you wonder if Miquella can truly make connections of some kind WITHOUT using his mind control or emotional manipulation.
@@garethlawton5278 I like how you get all confrontational over what amounted to Miquella's "level of care," based on the presence of the horse, which is still an assumption to make
The fact that the Hornsent's method of seeking spirituality is asceticism, to me, explains why they believe the jars turn people into Saints.
People trapped in jars are forcefully separated from the World, and consequently, of it's pleasures. They become unwilling ascetics.
Damn! This and his point about them being trad-LARPers... very based 🔥
One of their methods, Horned Warriors and Inquisitors, seem to have more ostentatious forms of worship
very similar to the anchorites during the middle ages too
Saints is a mistranslation. In Japanese it says “good people”.
Also the jars are mini crucibles. Kinda disturbing how because the shamans meat or spirituality made their flesh melt easier with other meat, relegate them in the eyes of the hornsent that their only purpose in life is to be sliced and melted together. Poor women.
i was really hoping for a Torrent origin story in the DLC :(
It’s a half assed dlc imo, great gameplay but story wise it’s shiz. He just made more question and answered 2-3 things
Me too. There was a lot I was wishing for but, I should have known Miyazaki wouldn't give us everything.
@@Lilbird2fyeif you knew the dev that's what you should have expected. This ain't the witcher or any other tidy story wrapped up with a bow by the end
@@Lilbird2fye thank you! It's amazing gameplay,but too many seem to be brainwashed by it calling it "perfect" and "answers so many questions ". Bro,What about Torrent? What about Ranni? Why are there two different jar warriors now apparently? One with warriors inside like Alexander or in the DLC, which are NOT the same. Why did Godwyn get retconned and replaced with Radahn with a trash boss fight? I could go on and on.
@@BUKUDInah one thing is cryptic storytelling, and I like that very much, but the dlc story is just not good
I think Miquella cast torrent aside, and melina at some pointing taking torrent under her care. I reckon that’s why out of all her pleasant dialogue that’s very formal, when giving you torrent she flatly says “treat him with respect.” She and torrent are clearly in a similar state of being in some way too.
i do believe Miquella is Torrent's former master but the only similarities that Melina has to Torrent is that they are spirits because they're technically without bodies and Roderika does prove that spirits are able to communicate with each other in way most others are unable to.
it is heavily implied Melina feels a kinship to Torrent as both are spirits, plus the DLC implies Melina's body got burned by Messmer's flame, prompting Marika to banish him to the shadow realm (lol) Melina is called the Kindling Maiden for a reason
Much simpler reason why Torrent does not leave with Melina when we get the flame of frenzy, Torrent is bound to the whistle. He has extraordinarily limited autonomy. At most, he can refuse a call.
Melina is not permanently bound to some object, she can move from thing to thing, with some limits. As we inherit the flame of frenzy within Leyndell, Melina can abandon us at her leisure.
I think marika was the spirit tuner the blacksmith used to know. I also belive she was once torrents former master. Miquella is following her footsteps into god hood in the dlc so I think him riding torrent was just a way to hint at that
And Marika giving her daughter Melina, Torrent, would make sense as to why she has him. To give to a tarnished, as per Marika's order.
The spirit steed whistle is not just a plainly designed ring. It's a "delicate goldwork ring". The creator is clearly a craftsman connected to gold who can embroider golden threads with such degree of detail. Such is the art of Goldwork.
Created by aomeone who is not satisfied with a plain looking needle but is "intricately crafted".
The whistle was created with intent. Perhaps the whistle tone it creates can only be answered by a specific steed. The mystery for me is how she knows of Torrent, by name, and how the ring ended up with Melina.
very interesting. that seemingly implies marika herself created the summoning whistle, since her and weaving and thread are heavily correlated
@@ace-smithNot Marika technically but Radagon. He owns the gold needle not Marika. Whether it is on her before or after creating Radagon is a whole different can of worms.
Don't think Torrent is necessarily young. The land of shadow for example has large sheep but that doesn't necessarily mean the other sheep eventually grow to their size. Another example is Gransax, Greyoll and whoever that skull in Farum and corpse at Jagged Peak belong to. Those dragons are massive but it doesn't mean the others will grow to their size. Bayle is called the "oldest, vilest dragon of them all" by Florissax and yet he's not that big.
"is he stupid" killed me
There’s no funnier lore hunter than this guy
The biggest problem I have with connecting torrent and Miquella is that the timeline doesn't make sense to me.
So Miquella only had access to the land of shadow after being kidnapped by Mogh and was waiting for Radahn to be killed.
His journey across the land of shadow divesting his parts is happening as the tarnished is also journeying the land of shadow and we are just behind him. (Evidenced by his great rune breaking as we are getting close to shadow keep) So that means that his journey is happening by the time we are already been given torrent.
As unsatisfying it is it makes more sense if it's just another spectral steed.
I think his journey happened long ago and we are just retracing his steps. I think miquella was actually the one to place enir illim in that shadow state.
The shattering war took 5000 years to reach the point where Marika was like, "f this, a tarnished would be better suited".
Miquella had left the lands between a long time before the start of the game.
Time has little meaning to demigods and regular ppl when the land itself has no true death.
@@Silly_Illidan
Well I will be fine with that explanation if his rune didn’t break while we were exploring the land of shadow.
I don’t think there is anyone who would or can break his rune other than Miquella himself. So the implication is his journey of becoming a God was not done by the time we reach the land of shadow.
@@0512friend ofcourse his goal was not over. That's the whole point of the final battle
@@Silly_Illidan
Sorry I should’ve been clearer. I was not talking about resurrecting radahn and become god part of his journey but more about when he was shedding himself around the land of shadow part.
Dude this is really good. I've seen so many people disappointed that nothing tied back to the announcement art, but you found it!
The statues on the stone coffins are depictions of a spectral steed. I thought they were bulls at first until I noticed they had horse hooves. I think Torrent is the Lands Between equivalent of the grim reaper. Ferrying souls to the afterlife. Miquella's original body is clearly deceased. Torrent brought his spirit to the land of shadow.
I think nobody is mention in us that why the Tarnished has the bewitched branch as part of his customization. Curious for this to be answered one day………
Turns out we were the moghlesters all along
Ooh, I might have to look into that! I also remembered that you can get Shabriri's Woe as a starting gift too...
It's very simple man, Melina and torrent where acting as agents on behalf of Miquella. This item either marked us or it could have been used from the beginning and we had been a sleeper agent the whole time. Leda killed all the needle knights so she ruined miquella other set of knights and is "why" we don't see them until the dlc.
@@ramoraid Is it confirmed Leda clapped all the other needle knights?
I think Miquella planned his own death, St.Trina is a part of him so when she asks us to end Miquella who is currently paving out his own damnation, it is also Miquella's wishes as well. By the time of the dlc Miquella had betrayed himself and everything he stood for. He wished for death.
Melina might get a Tarnished that will burn the tree and bring back Destined Death so she'll do this one thing for Miquella. As for Ranni, i guess she owed him a favor or something? Miquella props us up so that we can kill Radahn since he calls us "Champion of the Festival" but this plan seems either 300 IQ or just plain luck that things would fall into place so well
I wonder if Ranni was disguised as Renna when she got the Spirit Calling Bell from Miquella? It does seem very significant that she tells us she's Renna when we first meet her.
And there is a puppet of Anna at Rabbath's Tower in the Land of Shadow so it is possible the Carians there could have made another Renna puppet for Ranni to inhabit.
And I do like the idea that Miquella is running a max Charisma and Luck build in Elden Ring. Truly, there is nothing more terrifying...
@@garrulousgoldmask As far as i know there is zero connection between Miquella and Renna so the Renna thing might be because she wants to keep a low profile, as per Rogier she hasnt been seen in some time, "this guy doesnt know me so i might as well give him a fake name" wouldnt want some BK assasins to track you down.
Also i dont think "Marionet possession" is the same as Puppetry since ones process is unknown to us and the other needs a living recipient to drink a potion so that they can serve as a... well puppet
I have a theory that Miquella is actually a Co conspirator in Rannis Night of Black Knifes, in stealing a fragment of the Rune of death. And with Melina guiding us and Miquellas items in our possession he might have put a charm on us from the very beginning to enable his plan, which would make sense.
Remember that Ranni and Miquella share the same objective. Ranni wants Radahn dead since he is blocking the stars, hence interrupting the becoming of her fate. Miquella intends to use his sould for his own purposes. They might have come up with an alliance
I'm under the impression that most of the biggest events in the LB are casualties of a proxy war between Miquella and Ranni. Like someone else said, they have the same goals, but I think that makes them enemies. If we assume Godwyn was Miquella's first choice for consort, it suddenly makes sense why Ranni would target him, specifically. She manages to both stop Miquella and divest her own flesh (which seems like an important part of the process)
After failing to revive Godwyn with the Eclipse mentioned in Castle Sol, he sent Malenia after his second choice, Radahn. I think it's important to note that Redmane Castle is geographically as far away from the Haligtree as absolutely possible. I think Radahn fears Miquella's compulsion.
We never knew why Radahn was holding back the stars, since him and Ranni didn't seem to have any grudges. But if we assume it was actually to stop Miquella, and Ranni's fate was just a casualty, it makes more sense. Also, it's possible the amber starlight is Miquella's discarded fate, maybe to circumvent this.
Anyway, killing Radahn was the trigger for the next phase of his plan, which nobody could do until you came along.
There are some timeline issues others have pointed out, but Ranni meeting Miquella in the land of shadows after divesting her flesh to receive the spirit calling bell and Melina meeting Miquella in the land of shadows after some unknown death to receive torrent; For both to return to the lands between and give it to the tarnished is a very interesting proposal.
Then again we could go by the age old Miyazaki method and say that time is convoluted. Time in the land of shadows could be warped as opposed to the lands between.
I hear people in the comments talking about Radahn’s lack of will. Ansbach, Miquella’s biggest hater himself, said that he doesn’t believe that Miquella understands the ramifications of his own actions. St. Trina also confirms this. I don’t think Miquella has a good understanding of others’ feelings.
He's a child after all.
He’s got the eternal mind of a child so he’s got a dangerous naïveté
Lazy writing typical fromsoft
a guy that had to charm other ppl into doing what he wants? yeah who knew
Torrent was definitely Miquella’s horse I think even before the dlc. In the blue fields, and the fissure there are huge monuments with Torrents head on it. He could’ve been more St. Trina’s mount especially considering death is heavily associated with cold weather and water, and Torrent means a heavy storm. At first I thought he could’ve been Godwyn’s but now Miquella makes more sense.
That's bulls
@@Vdwisgodnice pun
Torrent canonically trusts the Tarnished even after frenzied flame 🥺🥺
I think there are some simpler explanations like Miquella just helping Melina by giving her a spectral steed(he is known to help his siblings).
so melina gets the steed then gives it you because miquella knows you eventually go to land of shadows and need torrent for it ? as miquella didnt do some things without good reason for own gain.
Ranni has a different Dialog if you deny having Torrent twice. She will leave those items there and will tell us she is supposed to give us those items "at the behest of Torrents Former Master" which would link Miquella to Ranni and Melina in a very significant way that not a single Souls Lore RUclipsr dares to point out.
Ranni and miquella both want the same thing but have different methods or concepts of what peace is. Ranni believes it’s freedom and everyone having their own choice to do what they want. Miquella means it in a literal sense of nobody physically harming each other or making their ill intentions known and is willing to take control of the population to do so. They definitely could have met at some point in time in the lore way before our tarnished comes into the picture and that’s why they’re both so bent on doing what they want. It’s not only because they feel strongly about it, but because they think it’s a race between who will achieve their dream first. Idk I’m just spit balling as I’m taking a shit at my job in PetSmart so I don’t know shit
@@LeftyPantaridis I know all that stuff. Believe me, I have my own cracktheory regarding the relationship of these 2 and I swear you would only find like 2 soulslore RUclipsrs to even bring it up, and not 1 that even made a Video about the possible connection they have.
@@TheRealJohnuxwell let’s hear it then
@@bobdylanlovr69 Well, Ranni has never actually told us how she stole a fragment of the Rune of death, there is also not a single piece of Information on how she did that. Yes, the Knife Print exists and is an undeniable proof that she used it on the Black Knifes In a Ritual, that doesn't tell us how she did the stealing of the fragment though.
Which is where Miquella comes into play.
He has the means to steal the fragment from Maliketh, being able to charm people or put them to sleep are very useful abilities to have, he has the motive, to become a god and replace the golden Order, and in that He has a common goal with Ranni, the Downfall of the Golden Order.
This Idea is mainly supported by the placements and behaviour of the BKAs found ingame, which is a lot to explain, just remember the 5 dead ones that attacked Rannis allies at near the end of her questline and the 3 you find in Ordina, 2 alive and 1 dead.
There is also the very big contradiction that Ranni would do Miquella a favor even though He tried to kill Radahn using Malenia, or Miquella even working With Ranni when she is behind the plot to kill Godwyn, who was apparantly very dear to Miquella and Malenia.
If they weren't already working together to Set the Events of the Shattering into motion then their cooperation later down the line to manipulate YOU the Tarnished wouldn't make sense. And im fairly certain that it is impossible that Miquella and Ranni Set this up before everything went down. I could go more into Detail, but that's the general gist of it.
@@TheRealJohnuxLeft a theory on Smoughtown’s Godwyn Prince of Death video. Basically my theory was that Ranni and Miquella were behind the Night of Black Knives, but Ranni betrayed Miquella in order to achieve her Age of Stars. Godwyn was meant to be the first demigod to die a true death, now I believe it was to act as Radahn’s original vessel, not Mohg. Or at least that’s what I believe after the DLC.
I've been wondering why Torrent is helping the player given that we end up taking Miquella down and ruining his plan. Maybe Torrent also had a charm broken when the great rune breaks, maybe Torrent is a shadow-bound beast that turns on Miquella like Blaidd with Ranni, or maybe Torrent is more of a St. Trina fan and knew Miquella was cooked on his current path?
Or maybe Torrent is a beast with no understanding of people's goals and alliances
@@KaliTakumithey talk too much about the opposite thing happening for that to be the case. It’s clear torrent has some sentience
@@bobdylanlovr69 I could be missing something but I've only seen things that animals do. Like having trust for certain people or sizing up their capabilities. Though if you're meaning something more complex I'd be happy to hear what quotes you're referring to
Stupid game with lazy story
Because Torrent was sent to us by Marika, not by Miquella
They left so many things up in the air
For real it feels like the final piece is still missing
Welcome to Fromsoft games.
People keep coming back to Rogier saying that Ranni hasn't been seen and speculate on the reason for this but isn't it just that she no longer has her old body and as such doesn't look like herself anymore? She apparently goes by the name of Renna and I mean who would recognise her? I don't really think there's more to it than that
"Horses before corsets" had me 😂
your video left me feeling inspired and excited, thank you!
I think that Miquella experimented on Torrent and sent him to the shadow lands first. If he was able to send him and use the bell to call him back he'd know it worked. He then did the same process on himself.
I think it lines up thematically with Miquella discarding those close to him.
Torrents design is similar to that of a real life Shetland Pony, but hes bigger than a shetland pony. But If Miquella was child sized it makes a little sense hed have a small horse.
And if his horse was forever small it makes a bit of sense he use that as a way to look into his own affliction. Miquella grows up when he goes to the shadow lands, I think we are seeing that with torrent as well.
I think torrent used to be small and not have horns.
"Miquella is running a Charisma build in a Souls game" is such a accurate description lmao
Perhaps Torrent was drawn to St. Trina, and when Miquella eventually abandoned her, Torrent took that as a betrayal and abandoned Miquella in turn. It might also be the case that Trina kept the whistle when abandoned, and hoped that an Elden Lord found by Torrent would eventually battle Miquella and could kill him. Trina may have reached out to Melina and Ranni at different times due to her strained existence, only being able to make limited contact and provide a limited number of items. Additionally, considering that Ranni tried to kill Miquella and Malenia during the Night of the Black Knives (hence the assassins at Ordina), Ranni would probably accept a plan that involves killing another one of Marika's children.
As such, Melina would be contacted because she'd help Torrent find an Elden Lord, who'd either seek to kill Miquella or have to defend him/herself from Miquella and likely kill him in the process. Ranni would be contacted because she'd give the bell to whoever she thought had the best chance of using it for the sake of killing Miquella.
When the dlc was first announced, I theorized that the story involved the Tarnished getting trapped in Miquella’s cocoon dream and you and him have to work together to escape. As you travel across the landscape, Miquella would ride on Torrent with you, and either walk when you walk or simply disappear with the horse until you summon him.
Really? You didnt guess he was gonna be evil? Why?
@@TheShadowOfHumanity This was when the DLC was first released and we didn't know much about the story, though I will say that I theorized that he probably either would have been the final boss or could become the final boss depending on your actions. My thoughts were that either he secretly had dubious motives because nobody is completely innocent in a Soulsborne game, or he would get varying levels of pissed off at you depending on how long it takes for him to learn you killed Malenia, since I figured that beating her would have been a requirement for unlocking the DLC that involves her brother.
Great video!
I think it was clear to me that torrent was being shown as miquella's steed since that concept art. People get mad over the timeline issues, but i think the lack of it is the point. We are deliberately not meant to know a lot of things in these games.
I guess Miquella wasn't Torrent.
Game and haligtree: shows Miquella and Malenia affection to the death and probably their lascivious love (which is normal among gods)
Dlc: miquella being randomly interested in radahn
Yeah now Malenia hardly has a reason to exist outside being a boss fight.
Like she gets one mention in the DLC and it’s not even by name
@@TREVORVADER sAiNt Of ThE bUd
@@hayabusakamui2352 another new rot character with even less story
Are you going to do a Goldmask ending video now that we got new lore about the Greater Will, the nature of gods and fingers?
Already did! I compared Goldmask and Ranni's endings with Miquella's Age of Compassion in my video on the final boss: ruclips.net/video/zGEAO1pciHI/видео.html
Our Torrent never lost hope in his lord, a lord he chose to serve as he kept believing in us even after choosing the frenzied flame. The only thing Torrent feared most. And everyone keeps praising Radahn's leonard. Torrent was the real one from the start.
The DLC has been rewritten late into development, as such the trailer and the promo art are more than likely to not correspond to whatever lore we got in the final product.
@@dearcastiel4667 Really wish we got whatever Miquella riding Torrent was originally going to be instead of what we got tbh.
@@societyman6591 I mean, they removed a whole ending cutscene and replaced it with that lame and pointless memory that says exactly the same thing as the NPCs before it, I still fail to see why they would put that memory as ending cutscene when it tells absolutly nothing new.
Do you have a source about it being rewritten or are you just assuming?
@@BaldorfBreakdowns Miquella has a cut ending from the base game that was datamined, and there is zero indication it involved Radahn in any way whatsoever. If you look at Miquella's eyes (which we never see in the DLC) they have an eclipse symbol around the pupils. It's pretty clear they didn't know what to do with Miquella, but what we got was uniquely terrible.
@@societyman6591 Okay. So content was cut. That's nothing new for any game ever made.
When was it cut? No one knows. But will they act as if they do? Absolutely.
There *is* proof there was no extra writing for the DLC, which means this story was already written.
It's funny how much people assume they know the development process and how the story was supposed to go.
Everyone seems to forget that when you 1st get the ability to summon spirits from Ranni,she says “I was entrusted to give these to you,by Torrents former master.” Meaning whoever that master was,told Ranni to grant us the ability to summon,meaning this mysterious “master” has wanted to help us from the start of the game.
“Is he stupid?”
Ahahahahaha that had me rolling in public
Great Video GG. Yeah I was wondering about this too.
7:50 with the amount of times he killed me by falling of cliffs, probably.
Miyazaki confirmed that it was Miquella in the concept art but he never said that it was Miquella riding Torrent! I think Torrent belongs to Melina not Miquella as Torrents former master can still apply to Melina
Very perceptive! That's why I made sure to say that Miyazaki only confirmed it was Miquella in the image.
The main issue I have with Melina being Torrent's original master is why didn't she also give us the Spirit Calling Bell as well? It seems a bit too complicated for Melina to give the bell to Ranni when she could have just given it to us as well. (For Miquella, that could be explained by him giving away the whistle and the bell at different times, which makes it a bit less convoluted.)
Hmm, I'll have to go scope these out for myself, cos I had convinced myself it was Melina's hoss... I appreciate the leads! 🌞
At best Torrent can refuse to be summoned but he only ever does it out of genuine fear. Why he then still lets us summon him when we accept the Frenzied Flame is a mystery (beyond gameplay reasons) but I feel like there is an answer to that. Might be a slight meta thing of "knowing" most players won't choose the Frenzied Flame ending outside of the achievement, only its more about knowing that the Tarnished won't willingly hurt Torrent in a way that matters (since Torrent can be "hurt" in gameplay but that is only the physical manifestation of his spirit). This is all to say that he lets Melina know that he trusts the Tarnished (the player) to succeed in "fixing" the world but he can't move about without someone using the ring whistle, while Melina is not bound to a physical object.
Mojang has got people using the “concept art “ excuse
so glad someone finally pointed this out i was always disappointed that this was never addressed
I believe that when Rogier says that Ranni has not been seen in a long time, he refers to redhead Ranni which is located atop a tower burned by destined death.
And the Ranni that we know was simply acting as a random sorcerer around Liurnia, the lands of sorcerers.
That could be it! Though now that you mention it, I wonder if Ranni has been hiding in the Renna puppet body since the Night of the Black Knives.
And thank you so much!!
@@garrulousgoldmask I love talking about lore, your video was so good! Glad I can be of help :D
I would believe she did that with the rune of dead after that night, she could have used the killing of Godwin's soul as a first experiment or test, then use it on herself to kill her own body but not her soul. It would have sucked if she tried to do it the other way around, just to end up failing to do it properly after all...
It's always great to come across another lore aficionado!
As for the Night of the Black Knives, we do know that the ritual on Godwyn and Ranni was performed at the same time and on the same night the Rune of Death was stolen (Cursemark of Death description). But it would make sense if Ranni tried to do a short test run while the Assassins got into position. (Also, it would be amazing to see the NotBK as an HBO episode or film!)
@@garrulousgoldmask I swear Elden Ring as a movie or series like GOT would be one of the greates pieces of art in the past 10 years, the best part is that some of the community actually make fanart that is just that good simply because they got the kick for it lol
I always thought the ancestral followers were descendants of the elden jon society, since every place we find them in the main game has ruins of that culture. With that in mind, theres a cookbook that talks about hornsent scholars studying spirit techniques lost to antiquity, and I personally think this refers to them exploring the ruins and redoscovering these lost elements of that culture. Shamans are also generally associated with less advanced civilisations as well, the cultures that built a cient megolithic structures like stonehenge in England or the Hypogean in Malta, for example.
What happened to Miquella and Godwyn? What happened to Miquella’s Haligtree? If Miquella enchanted Mohg from inside the Haligtree, how did he do it? Did St. Trina assist him, and if so, why did he toss her away if she was fully supportive and complicit in his plans? If Miquella was stolen and the Haligtree failed as a result, why did he not try to build another Haligtree since it was clearly working? Why does Miquella abandon his flesh twice, once in the Mohgwyn palace and again in the Land of Shadow? When was Miquella stolen? Since the DLC confirms he was present at the battle between Malenia and Radahn, does that mean he cocooned himself in the Haligtree afterwards, and somehow Mohg broke in and stole him with all of Malenia’s and Miquella’s troops there after the battle? If Miquella charmed Mohg before being stolen, why cocoon himself in the first place? Did he cocoon himself with the plan of his Haligtree failing and being stolen? If Malenia knows Miquella plans to enter the Land of Shadow, why is she waiting in the Haligtree for his return when everyone knows Mohg stole him? Why doesn’t Malenia kill Mohg since that’s part of Miquella’s plan? Why are none of Miquella’s followers present during the Radahn festival since killing Radahn is also part of Miquella’s plan?
This why i dont like Miquella as character nomore lol
@@ghostflossy2403 To be fair it’s not Miquella’s fault that Miyazaki is just making it up as he goes along.
I agree with you on a lot of these questions but if I had guess with Mogh it was just him improvising cause there is now way Mogh was originally apart of his plan
@@brandonsmith6790 If Mohg just randomly kidnapped Miquella white he was sleeping in his tree it’s very weird the DLC tries to make me believe Mohg was innocent and Miquella just charmed and sacrificed him for no reason. Seems more like sleepy self-defense in that case.
Miquella decided to enter his tree when malenia marched to caelid. His haligtree was successful and it is what allow st.Trina to appear in him as he started to become a God. Mogh was likely charmed sometime after malenia failed but before she got to the haligtree. Mogh decided to cut miquella in part due to a fanatical desire and also maybe because the formless mother persuaded him to do so. Whatever the reason mogh screwed over miquella and killed him.
Miquella now in the land of shadow probably met torrent and they traveled around the land of shadow. They likely discovered Marika past and how she ascended and also there they met Melina. Miquella and Melina likely then deiced to use a tarnished for their personal schemes. They could not use miquella needle knights because Leda killed them all in some fanatical purge. Nor his haligtree forces because of reasons.
I honestly do not think Miquella was Torrents previous owner, or the owner of the spirit calling bell.
It doesn't even make sense. How did Torrent get to the lands between? Did Miquella somehow make two trips?
Plus, why would Ranni help Miquella? Is she charmed? Clearly not, shes working against his goals.
I honestly think the most likely option is Renalla, or Ranni herself.
Pretty sure out of anything the DLC confirmed what Torrent is and where they came from. Torrent is a creature of the Crucible, it’s an animal with horns and it’s former master was likely Hornsent
A side note but the large Coffin/Ships? In the Blue/Purple areas also have a what looks like a Torrent bust at the helm of each one. Not sure about the lore connections there but have at it.
After playing the dlc I kinda assumed that torrent was a divine beast. Torrent, from what I understand, has the ability to control or use wind to his and by extension your benefit. When you dodge while mounted, Torrent speeds up leaving what looks like steams of air, in order to get to higher levels Torrent jumps through the spirit springs which look like little tornados, and he has those horns on his head. There aren’t any living divine beasts ( unless the hippo is one lol) but from the dancing lion fight and divine beast warriors we know that they could harness the powers of the elements including wind. And there is evidence that supports that divine beasts were not just lion-like creatures, in the specimen storehouse there are many corpses of large animals which have many sprouting horns and depict having hooves. It’s not directly stated that these are divine beasts, but it is stated that Messmer sought out divine beasts to eradicate them, the storehouse is located within the black keep, ie. Messmers house, so it’s not too out there to assume that these corpses are divine beasts hung up like trophies or for studying. So I came to the conclusion that torrent is a young divine beast that was looked after and/or saved by miquella and then given to us. Or because torrent is summoned with a bell chime sound he is the spirit ashes of a divine beast but these ashes were “blessed” by miquella to make him the perfect steed.
I haven’t watched many lore vids since the dlc was announced, most of what I have typed is speculation from reading item descriptions, and making connections where I saw them. I also started typing before watching so I hope I’m not just saying the same thing just in a less coherent no way lol.
Wasnt there like a dancer boss in the Cerulean Coast too?
Torrent's whistle is the seal that blocks Melina's Gloam-Eyed Queen side, change my mind
If you put the edge of your tongue on the roof of your mouth behind your teeth the pronunciation of the “R” sound becomes much easier❤ not trying to be rude I used to have an issue with it too. This is how it was described to me when I figured out how to make the sound 😊
As much as i would like this, Torrent jsut seems to be another spectral steed like any other. The timeline itself doesn't make sense since Miquella cannot gain acess to the land of shadows until we defeat Mohg, that was his plan in the first place he's traversing the land at the same time as we, the player, are doing so. So as much as i would've loved for that to be torrent in the artwork, it has to be just another steed fro mthe same species as torrent
Am i trippin or miquelle has 3 arms instead of 4 ? One of the left seem to be cut. Maybe related to Ansbach ?
Nope, he has 4! The lower left arm is there but it can be obscured by Miquella's mane of hair. You can see it in some of the close-up shots when Miquella is embracing his consort.
@@garrulousgoldmaskyea but that 4th arm is cut off above the elbow
"Here I abandon my arm sinistrel" @@garrulousgoldmask
He has 3 arms, the fourth arm is cut short though. I like the thought that the missing arm is the arm we see sticking out of the cocoon
@@garrulousgoldmask it’s not obscured by his hair it just fades into nothing. I’m not sure why he only has three arms and not four, it’s a weird detail but maybe there is some lore reason?
Radahn has Leonard, so Miquella might've had Torrent to mirror his Lord Brother.
i mean most of the theory makes sense but i genuinely makes more sense its just Melina considering it makes significantly more sense if she is the Gloam Eye'd Queen and the Frenzied Flame ending warning/ cutscene has an actual connection with torrent and her. Ranni and Melina clearly now each other since She knows Torrent and knows exactly WHO gave him to you
I mean it's pretty obvious Torrent is a creation (the ring) of miquella. It's made from unalloyed gold and only a master craftsman like miquella who created malenia's arm and legs would be able to create such a weird amazing device.
I think the pic shows miquella when he entered the land of shadow and then abandoned torrent in which Melina came across him, the events of the game and dlc take place way before the tarnished arrived, I don’t think we are in some sort of pursuit of miquella but he’s been there for awhile and we finally caught up,
7:00 This is another reason to never get the frenzied flame ending aside from 100%. What monster would betray torrent? He trusted us.
Torrent could be st trina's steed. Wasn't it mentioned somewhere that st trina rode a horse? The albanaurics thought she was a handicap like them
It's important to note that Ranni hadn't been seen due to the fact that her corpse is hidden at her divine tower protected by a godskin noble. Only her inner circle is aware that she's in the Renna doll. Only Rogier had an inkling of what was actually going on besides the Tarnished.
I think they changed the story to make us fight miquella.
I think the Bell and Ring are artifacts crafted by Miquella during the halcyon days of the Age of the Golden Order, his first delves into the nature of spirits and maybe even the Land of Shadow, the bell he later gave away to Ranni, and asked her to bestow it upon whoever was given Torrent's ring (because Miquella needed someone to finish off both Radahn and Mohg, most likely a Tarnished, and both items would've been useful for this task) which he later gave to Melina, whom he may have met as he first dove into the Land of Shadow (explaining him riding Torrent into the Land of Shadow) before Melina was reborn by Marika, because he knew Melina's purpose would lead her to assist a Tarnished in a way that would align with his plan.
edit: now that I think about it, maybe Miquella even charmed Ranni so she'd give the bell to Torrent's rider
The horse may not be torrent. Hard to believe he’s the only one of his kind.
this is a very informative video
The picture of Miquella and Torrent is obviously before he is given to us
When you get to the Volcano Manor for the first time and if you went there by yourself (as opposed to being teleported by Rya), Tanith praises you for making it on your own and speaks of another "guest" from long ago who came by himself. Realistically it must be Bernahl but for some reason I always suspected it was Miquella.
Torrent is the name of the spectral steed that we the protagonist use. When you meet Ranni posing as Renna at the church of Elleh she refers to torrent as a spectral steed. This implies that a spectral steed is another type of being that exists in the lands between. Given Miquella’s inherent ability to charm it’s likely that he charmed anoyher nameless spectral steed. Sorry there’s nothing here
I thought we were going to find this other horse and it would work in the Abyssal Woods. unless Torrent can exist in more than one place at a time, because Miquella is traveling in the land of shadow when the player already has Torrent.
Is it possible that Torrent was once equivalent to Miquella's Shadow that he cast aside?
The way (even though most aren't Shadow/Empyrean):
Maliketh was to Marika
Serosh was to Godfrey
Blaidd was to Ranni
Leonard was to Radahn
Eiglay was to Rykard
Red Wolf was to Radagon
Base Serpent was to Messmer
Gaea was to Gaius
(Etc.)
When you first meet Ranni, she knows that your spirit summons name is Torrent. And if you keep lying to her that you don’t have Torrent, she will just leave the spirit summon bell down anyways on the “behest of the torrent’s former master”. So this shows that she not only knows Torrent well, but also his former master. And once you find the finger slaying blade for her, she comments warmly that she should thank Torrent for helping you too. Her genial attitude towards Torrent here further shows that she probably knows Torrent pretty well and, in extension, its former master. So, it will make sense that if Torrent used to belong to Miquella, Ranni’s half brother. And I can totally imagine Ranni having a pretty friendly, if not close relationship with Miquella before the shattering since they both seem to be the black sheep of their family.
Miquella only has 3 arms when you see him. He lobbed one off. What you see in the fight is one physical arm and two spiritual arms.
I like to think that torrent was always miquellas. As melina says she was tasked with handing it over and this Miquella says we are his follower champion of the festival. It’s like Miquella knew he needed us to get him that far but realise he needed someone ferocious to do it and that’s why he fights us and charms us. Because we are too strong. But he needed someone too strong he just underestimated his godhood
Torrent is basically the family dog
Maybe torrent was Miquella's personal mount that he used to get around, and he might have taken him to carry him around in the dlc as well
I just assumed it was a Torrent and not our Torrent
I havent watched but tbh its been my headcannon that miquella went there and left him there with melinas spirit so she could find the tarnished
Rennala can also summon spirits. Maybe she is the former master Renna talks about? Although, I still believe that torrent's former master is Melina. Ranni not talking about Melina is just one of these games quirky things to keep the mystery in the air. Although the whistle is described by being a delicate goldwork, and we know who handcrafts gold tools, Miquella. Idk, its so confusing.
I think inherently each Tarnished is chosen by the Two Fingers to become the 'body' part of the mind/body/spirit perfection of the god we choose to elevate. As chosen ones, the Demigods/Outergods are fated to attempt to influence us to get our help in their plans. Miquella was the most altruistic (at first) so maybe he offered Torrent as an almost-but-not-quite version of Shadow Bound beast much like Melina was able to be a sort of Finger Maiden. I think when dismissed, he returns to Miquella's side.
Horn tender items make me think of chicken tenders, can't help it lol
Is it just me… or at 5:50 it shows miquella throwing away a part of him? You can see something flying away on his right and it looks like his arm was stretched out to throw and he is brining his arm back😮.. his arm is hidden behind is flying hair but you can just see it…😮😮😮
That would make a ton of sense!
The yinz at the end surprised me lol
Scholar of the first sin in background music
SPOILERS.
The picture was just a teaser of what would happen if we, the Tarnished fell into Miquella's charm.
Miquella would then steal everything from us, Torrent included. HEART STOLEN appears if he grabs us 2 times during fight.
It's complicated to explain but the picture works like a frame of The Lord of Frenzied Flame ending in wich Melina retrieves the ring that we use to call Torrent. Everything is lost, included our most loyal companion.
Since Marika is a shaman, Torrent a spirit and is Melina, the daughter of Marika who gives you torrent. I always have thought that torrent was Merika's horse
*about to go to sleep*
*Garrulous uploads*
Sleep is overrated anyway.
It seems to me that ancestral followers grow horns when they die. The Item we get from the ancestral rememberance implies that the horns on the ancestor spirits grow buds when followers die. Implying that new buds grow on death of the followers. If thats true, ancestor spirits are literally the amalgamation of ancestors spirits in the form of a giant horned deer.
I brought Melina to the land of shadow but the dialogue doesn’t change it’s still about burning the tree and becoming lord
They decided to completely seperate the base and dlc games
I have this idea that maybe Miquella and Millenia as well as the rest of the Demi gods were born a lot earlier that we thought.
Miquella and Marika's past were the two most abhorrent revelations of the DLC tbh
Would've been interesting if Miquella would say something during the boss fight, if you use his broken rune after you get charmed.
😎🍻😎
One twin gives him disease and one turns him into a mindless pokemon. Radahn cant catch a break.
Great video! I am curious if anyone has talked about any evidence of giants missing in the Shadow realm. Maybe there is evidence of giants and I missed it, I could be wrong. It's just odd that there is so much evidence of giants all over the Lands Between but it's extremely scarce at best, if non existent in the Shadow realm. I haven't seen anyone speak to this in theory just yet. Thanks again for the video.
Thank you! There is the Ancient Meteoric Ore Greatsword, which is a double misnomer since it's a colossal sword in the game but was "fashioned from an excavated shard of an arrowhead that once was a part of the old gods' arsenal." Given how massive it is, I think this was used by the giant giants. And the reference to the "old gods" (only mentioned in this weapon) also makes me think of the Divine Towers.
@@garrulousgoldmaskrelated to the massive arrow/bolt that pinned the dragon corpse in the dlc maybe
There’s a lot here that I have to fundamentally disagree with. The raisin description is tenuous at best as it is providing the mechanical benefits of the item. It in no way indicates the recipe was made explicitly for Torrent. While yes Miquella is known to be a craftsman of gold objects, that’s kind of the whole deal with the Golden Order, so it’s a huge stretch to say that he is responsible for this specific item when that sort of stuff is lying around all over the place. We also know for a fact that Miquella’s journey through the Shadowlands is happening concurrently with our own, meaning the spectral steed he is using in the promotional art cannot be Torrent. It almost certainly couldn’t be Miquella and Torrent at a time prior to the current events because we can see the spectral gravestones (meaning the image 100% happens after Messmer’s crusade) and Miquella couldn’t get through the veil until our business with Mohg. Honestly with the specimen storehouse and everything else we know for a fact, the only reasonable conclusion to come to is that Miquella is simply riding a different beast of the same breed. There’s definitely some good stuff here concerning the ancestral worshippers though, I think they deserve a big deep dive with the new context given to us by the DLC.
O'Niel and Niall worked for the Storm Lord which is why they can summon banished knights. No idea why one's at Castle Sol and the other at Swamp of Aeonia, pbbly some earlier version of the game or they just didn't know where to put them. Also why Niall has a prosthetic leg that can summon wind and lightning
Torrent is the indication that is a time of peace within the empyrean family.