Their kindness is currency in their view. They really do believe that they have purchased and own the people to whom they’ve shown kindness. After the purchase, they have no reason to honor the personhood, privacy, feelings or outside relationships of their “property”.
omg yes! this is why it's so hard for me to accept anything from them, and then they try and force me to accept it, and the gaslighting and manipulation begins
@@imjustme2876 Yes, I try and do the same as you and not accept anything from them, but they have a way of forcing their "gifts" or gestures of "help" on to us and we end up looking ungracious and unappreciative for not wanting it!
Cults are run by cluster B's. I heard something that said if you're in a "relationship" with one of them it's like being in a cult of one. Most people, including me, have no idea what's being done to them or how their being manipulated. You know somethings wrong but you can't put your finger on it, while you are slowly having the life sucked out of you.
I would say these are one of the most dangerous types. You don't see it coming. Deceitful. These are the wolves in sheep clothing. Thank you Dr. Ramani outstanding! ❤
Not only do you not see it coming, but after you do see it and attempt to call them out or warn others, you are scorned by all the folks who think this person is the cat's pajamas. You are labeled as "jealous" or "petty" because everyone sees them as a saint.
Anyone who ever volunteered in humanitarian causes know exactly who this is! the hardest part is letting anyone believe you when you say they're nothing like what the camera shows. it makes you question your own reality
I've always been suspicious of humanitarians that have horrible personal lives-multiple marriages, children that are on drugs or have committed suicide.
My father is a doctor, founder of charity and volunteers Sunday school at church and he is a narcissist. Thank you for this video. I thought no body would have believed in me.
My Dads an accountant, and is also an abusive communal narcissist that drives everyone close to him insane. His idea of helping is covering up his past abusive behavior with medication.
@@crongusclips7836 I am sorry to hear that. Yeah, Narcissism is very common and it's definitely a pandemic. Society's narcissism is enabled by the rapid moving environment into the future. Everyone deep down fears being forgotten and lost in the shuffle of events. So, we make noise, we try to stamp ourselves into the moment. Time is like a strong wind that sweeps everything away, so we struggle to keep grounded. Recognized. Humanity knows that Time dissolves everything to nothing. And this fear destroys our sense of value, because we know we are slowly moving into a waiting abyss. To be eaten whole.
@@shastafog2516 you speak facts. I was a vet tech for a well known vet amd this lady who was a Doberman rescue was RIDICULOUS when it came to them! One day she kept trying to tell me how to do my job to which i promptly told her she needed to step out of the room so we could work on her rescue dog. She tried to argue and finally i said if you don't like bow thi vs are done here, you can find another vet! She knew she couldn't tho because the vet aas already contracted out by the group she worked for. Finally she shut up.
My adopted father was a reverend .He was like this. I was a great kid and he would not allow me to do anything. He always seemed annoyed with me and disconnected.If he had to buy me clothes he made me feel so guilty about it. I remember winning a bible contest to make him happy but he could care less. I had good grades and got in to 6 colleges. He told me I was worthless because I didn’t play sports and didn’t have a scholarship. But I was playing sports before I was adopted. He and the rest of the family took that privilege away from me. He always seemed to be pleased with the young men at church and the family, but never me. I remember when he died, I told myself he was a good man. He was just old fashioned. Sadly, I was wrong. We would verbally abuse me every day and make me clean like a slave. He would also make fun of me during dinner and if I turned my head in the direction of the tv it had to go off. Everyone else in the family could watch tv, just not me. Shortly after I moved out, the family seemed to collapse of themselves. My adopted father got dementia and died within 6 years of me leaving. I swear I was that family’s life force in a weird way. It’s like the abuse they inflicted on me gave them power. Empaths, these people are very deceiving but it best to walk away so you can heal.
deb sabatino narcissists do this quite often. I was one of many the family took in to abuse. It’s like a cycle for them. Most people who are adopted are doing it for validation, abuse and money.They tend to want to place themselves around society’s most vulnerable. Sadly, I’m learning there are a lot in healthcare. I feel like they function better around people who are suffering.
I see the association being the power centre in their communion. I know by myself experience. You were the centre and they needed to advert your attention away from even your own needs and wants as much as they cared (?). Do gooders that wouldn't really let you do anything? You might have been a plug in actually what was missing for them. Some parents outright exchange their relationship with the child for a fluffy lapdog. I'd actually start wonder whose getting called for dinner sometimes... Seems like an obsessive to control state. I hope they had anyhow saved you some chronic sports injuries back in the day, and peace was eventually made with your Father Reverend 🙏
Wow. Thank you for sharing. I had the same thing happen with my family. I felt like I was the glue that kept them together. Even though I was never the leader. I thought having these thoughts, that I was the glue, was a bit arrogant. Now that I understand narcissism and it's energetic/spiritual component I get it. They really do suck our life force. Or maybe their demons need negative energy so we produce negative energy for them to feed their pet demons.... I really think the old tales about vampires, werewolves, witches were metaphorical stories about what we today called cluster Bs.
I saw this in healthcare too! My ex was a narcissistic monster, but to his patients he was wonderful. At home he was violent, sadistic and controlling, but no one believed it until he started losing it at work causing problems in the office and acting out like the closet lunatic he really was. But he was so adored and basked in that adoration but his fan club never heard his rude and hurtful comments about them! So evil.
YES. All kind of ' club kinds'. I'm thinking of the tape dance teacher for my kids when they were little. I had to put her in check a couple of times..
Church, tutoring, charity causes enough to just make you say I'm not getting involved. It's now in Social work ,psychology and Medical fields rampantly because government funding is a automatic. They building empires with thier Flying monkeys diagnostic of mental health, drug addiction gets the flying monkeys government checks. Then get there loving narcissist Dr. A government funded medical clinic, treatment center or even better housing facility. It's real estate property and rampant. It's so bad you happen to actually lose your job and need help the Narcissist can't stand you showing up. Because government programs don't cover normal people. They fuel them up with drugs to run you out when you're on to them.
Spot on. I think a big part of many peoples experiences with communal narcissists in particular is feeling like an instrument of support with little agency, and then feeling like a bad and uncharitable person for setting boundaries. Communal narcissists dismiss the needs and personhood of those closest to them when they conflict with what they want to accomplish for their image. They have a pushy way of trying to recruit their loved ones to their validation mission, committing their loved one’s time and energy to things they didn’t ask to be part of, often to the detriment of their needs/goals, and then accusing them of being uncaring or not a good person when they try to set a boundary. For example, offering their partner’s time, energy, and skills to a stranger without asking and then becoming angry when the partner/family member declines, feeling frustrated that they can’t fulfill their promise to the 3rd party and how that makes them look. They then lash out or withhold to punish the family member. Also wanting the partner/family member to be present for functions or events but being simultaneously overly-concerned with and trying to manage their image, e.g. expecting children or partners to negate important parts of themselves around others or outright lie, lest it tarnish their image by association. If the partner or family member subsequently doesn’t want to be part of the event or play along they are “unsupportive” and must not really love the narcissist. I think a lot of this behavior is also very, very prevalent in the nonprofit world, with directors constantly verbalizing their client’s or community’s humanity whilst bullying employees on a daily basis.
THIS. Imagine being dragged to an orphanage by your saintly parents & once you arrive home, they literally beat the cr*p out of you for "misbehaving" or not "being friendly" enough. Both parents have a noblesse oblige thing going on, they'd go on and on about how important it is to give to the needy & how it's our moral obligation because we're privileged yada-yada... Yet never care how their own children felt emotionally abandoned. Not to mention like pawns & toys in a performance. Whatever. 🤷🏻♀️🐈💜
Mystically Lumia Im so sorry you went through this. I was adopted by this type. I was beaten at least once a week by my adopted mother. She hated me because I was authentic and she wasn’t. Ugh it’s tough
@@reboundingfromnarcissistic5386 sorry about your experience. I can't believe anyone would go through the trouble of the adoption process only to beat the child.
Mystically Lumia happens all the time movie mommy dearest its all show perfect for narcissist So they can use the adopted child like a Trophy 🏆 hunter until the girl gets into teens and can’t be controlled anymore...Its horrible if your adopted u already have orphan spirit and abandonment issues..
@@mysticallylumia I have worked in home health care for about 10 years and there are families that adopt children just to get a check. Sometimes it is so obvious when I go to the house. They don't pay any attention to the child at all and it is so sad to me. There's a special place in hell 4 people like this. My last case had two children that were adopted that we're special needs and had to have a nurse 24/7. All they care about is the paycheck. There are some that really truly care however and they are a true blessing to this world. I'm sorry for what you went through. Bless you dear one.
I've been working in a Buddhist center for some time and it was a living hell. From a religious point of view the "good" that communal narcissists do doesn't even remotely outweigh the negative, because sooner or later what they're doing comes out and in addition to the individuals' suffering the abuse causes great damage to the religion.
1000000% yes! I used to laugh at the ones who would say “just came from yoga!” and were hitting people with their yoga mat in the grocery store without awareness... then i realized, who I’m married to does the exact same thing to a different degree. Out. Real yoga is in every moment and step and action, not just on a yoga mat.
Hello from Russia. I'm a social lawyer and have made series for Russian-speaking auditorium about toxic people in social work industry. That's how many of them are to be called - communal narcissists! Children's psychologists, fundraisers and cats' and dogs' shelters owners - I saw many communal narcissists among them, unfortunately. Thanks for your lectures!
This explains perfectly why my mother was a paragon of a teacher, whom everybody loved with multiple credentials in early childhood education but was ragefull, angry, mean and abusive behind closed doors. It explains some of the secrets of my childhood and why we were all so triangulated. It also explains why at the end of her career she was fired.
I understand. My mother was a DPS worker and prided herself about this yet severely physically, verbally, emotionally and psychologically abused me for years. To the public, she was a beacon of light. To me, she was (still is) the Devil.
Hee Hee, so many of the "new-age spiritualists" are seriously afflicted with communal narcissism! I run from all narcs, but these types really make me wanna barf... My dad had a bit of communal narcissism, and we kids were neglected unless there was something that made him look good! Thank You Doctor Ramani
My dad, a pastor used to starve us. He had a refrigerator in his bedroom where he would keep food for himself while the one in the kitchen would be completely empty. We used to eat at the neighbors’ place. And one day he said “if you tell pipo that I’m starving you, no one will believe you”.
We were overseas missionaries and my husband is either this type of narcissist blended with covert narcissism (the, see-how-humble-and-mild-I-am variety), and/or has high-functioning Asperger's mixed in.... we were told (bullied) that we HAD to smile at church or in pictures, even after fighting, yelling, crying , etc., all the way there or when at home leading up to the event. It was a living hell on earth.... so sad and painful.
That's a situation with in-built isolation if you worked outside your home country and in another language and culture. That must have been truly awful.
My father is a pastor and growing up felt like how you wrote, so I know how rough that must have felt for you! I was homeschooled, not allowed to get my license or date until 18 so I was depressed yet didn't realize that that wasnt normal until just a few years ago!
Imagine there are 2 dogs, each in a room. A person enters the 1st room and kicks the 1st dog. The person then moves to the next room and proceeds to pet, groom and feed the 2nd dog. This person is still a dog kicker. As much as being nice to the second dog is a good *action* , it doesn't make the person a good *person* . Utilitarians might tell you that the person's morality doesn't matter, as long as they're helpful for the greater good. I personally think it's a weird conception of the "greater good" to think it's desirable to have it happen at the expense of a minority of (or even a select few) innocent people. And I think it would be setting the bar pretty low to consider evil doing to be so inevitable that it should be deemed acceptable just as long as things "balance out" at the end of the day... when accepting evil doing is precisely what enables it. And anyway, whether you're a utilitarian or not, I don't think philosophical views about the world as a whole hold that much when it comes to very specific interpersonal situations. At the end of the day, if someone treats you badly, you don't need to care what else they did with their day or life, that's making excuses for them, and you don't have to agree with everyone who finds them wonderful if all they ever show you is their ugly side. By refusing to enable them, even if you're the only one, you're also contributing to the greater good. But hey, that's just my opinion. :)
Do you mean Unitarian? I've never heard of Utilitarians, but I do know a Unitarian who has no morals, and believes the end justifies the means. I thought it was just HER. I'm not sure if Unitarians hold this as a belief system.
@@imjustme2876, Oh! I just looked up Utilitarianism. Thank you for clearing that up. Hummm.... The person I mentioned is not only a Unitarian, but she's also a Utilitarian. I narrowly escaped a trap that would have cost me a lot of time and money. In the end, SO MANY people would have been happy, I'd have been duped into it without being able to say much without looking selfish and unkind, and not generous of spirit. (she was good at telling me how generous of spirit I was, until I wanted to🤮.) After she got what she wanted, she'd announce to the group who sit at her feet in admiration, that she had "arranged" for it all to happen. She had already pulled this kind of trick with others, I found out later. People have said to her, "You sure know how to make things happen!" She LOVES it!
I used to date someone like this. The first day we met, he dropped in the conversation (without being prompted) that he was a co-founder of a charity in Africa. He showed me so many pictures of the villages he worked in, but as Dr Ramani said- Every picture was a Kodak moment featuring him. At the time I couldn't believe my luck. What had I done to deserve such a kind and charitable person? As time went on I noticed how he interacted with those around, always readily bringing up in conversation the good work he did... Even if it was out of context from the original conversation. If he donated money it was usually quite alot but he had to tell everyone about it. There was a sheer sanctimonious air to him, and behind closed doors he was pretty abusive. He'd always favour the people who he gained the most validation from. He had so many friends, but he used them like a validation leech... then he'd move on to the next one after he drained what he could. But because he was such a good gaslighter these people never knew what he was doing and would often make time for him but always at his convenience and most the time he wouldn't even show up, because he was being validated by a new face Thank you again Dr Ramani. Youre so insightful and I'm glad I've been watching.
Like I’ve said before, this man never even raised his voice. It was always a really gentle tone, he was not only kind to me , but to everyone else. He rescued an iguana from a cat once, and gave it to me to put it in a safe place. I wonder now if that was a tactic, since he knew I’m a nature activist. Plenty of times he did a bunch of favors for me, including paying a month’s rent to “help”. Of course, when I confronted him, he threw that in my face. But as soon as he had me, he shifted into something completely opposite. Even his features changed. It’s like he was a whole different person, and I didn’t recognize him. As “good” and “benevolent” as these people pretend to be, is how terrible they truly are. When they shift, and show you who they are, it’s scary and one of the most confusing and hurtful experiences. The same person who rocked you in their arms, and seemed to feel something pure for you, is the same person who glares at you wit deep aversion, calls you names, becomes indifferent, starves you emotionally, stops talking to you, laughs at your hurt reactions, but always with that gentle voice, kind disposition, and spiritually evolved facade. The cognitive dissonance is deep, even more when he would accuse me of only seeing the bad things he did over the good (he would proceed to list them). In conclusion, when I was beginning to feel something for him, it was because of that sheath of rescuer and kindness. Now I understand how the devil can dress itself in light, when I thought it would be obvious to spot him.
Im 55 every narcissist who has betrayed me the worst and the most stealth are the coverts like iquana guy then it starts like chinese water torture drip by drip U think ur losing your mind by that time ur in to deep. When everyone says he’s such a nice guy Run 🏃♀️ very fast. Real men aren’t raised to be overly nice only these parasites that leech & use women..U can Heal I promise 🙏🏻
Love Whyte Thank you, and I have been :) There are genuinely kind people out there though. My best friend is the nicest person I’ve met, and he loves helping others as well. The key is to spot the subtle differences, and to listen to your gut feeling, your intuition. This guy doesn’t tell the world how good he is, he simply and happily does the action without asking for praise. He genuinely smiles, doesn’t deny his flaws, and embraces his duality of having a light and dark side. Now the dark side is tricky, because my abuser would repeat when he’d done something cruel, “I’m good, but I’m not perfect.” It’s the way it came out, the indifference in his face, how easily he shrugged off my emotions, and it would still hurt. The words still felt like they were meant to hurt. The abuser’s dark side was hurting people and not caring, denying it, not apologizing; my best friend’s dark side is his internal struggles, and how they pour out into the world, yet he works on them, and genuinely apologizes if he accidentally hurt someone else.
Wow!!! "Communical" describes my ex-husband very well. The cognitive dissonance was extremely difficult . The outside world couldn't see what he did behind the scenes. In my opinion this type is the worst because you don't have support for the truth that's happening. I'm grateful beyond measure to be free from those many years.
I agree. The demands they make for "the cause" isolate you and then there is no one around to witness what is really happening. Even when they provide "evidence" that you are at fault, no one knows the real story because they've conspired against you and engaged in selective editing of what they show the world. You have to hang on so that the truth of your character (and theirs) can become evident to people who are generous enough to understand. Hang in there for the people who already know that you have integrity and know who you really are in spite of their smear campaigns.
I meant to write communal but communicable is appropriate too. One of my sons has picked up the traits. Handing it down. We are stronger, wise and more discerning after these relationship experiences.
I went through this too! Had to work in an environment peopled with my husband’s admirers and enablers. But I would not bend nor cower under the silent disapproval, realizing the truth would out sooner or later. What you learn from these psychos is that people you thought were friends are not. This is the reality of people... many aren’t capable of seeing these monsters for who they are. Best response to their games and dramas is total silence!
This one actually nails how my dad is, I'd say he has similarities with other types as well but the whole "spiritual leader that is a jerk to his family" describes him very well
I have a neigbour like this. She is her own life's Mother Teresa, if you ask her. Part of housing cooperative, volunteers at school, volunteers at church and all kinds of nonprofits. She tried all kinds of tricks to be part of my life; I got cookies earrings made for me etc. But since the first time I met her, I thought I don't want her in my life. Too bad my son was friends with her son, so I had to be put up with her occasionally. So much gossip about other neighbours, even lying. If something doesn't go her way, there will be a smear campaign. I'm actually part of one too right now. Many people who live her thinks that she's a saint, some know the reality... They can't keep their mask on for too long and truth eventually appears. Oh, and this person was also lying one time of working for two weeks on childrens day summer camp and was bragging how she volunteers and does not get paid for it. Well, it came to light that work was part of her internship for social worker studies. They do absolutely everything to look good.
She sounds just like my neighbor. You were wise not to let yourself get too close to her. Unfortunately, that was not my experience. I had to go through 12 years of confusion and not understanding why she could be so sweet and yet so verbally abusive when things did not go her way. I finally put an end to our friendship and I’ve been so much happier and less stressed ever since.
Been around many such community workers. Thus I limit how I do charity work now. Private and discreet. Thank you Dr. Ramani for all that you do. You articulate our feelings. 🙏
Yep. I was the "bad kid" for not wanting to spend 5 hours in Macy's helping her pick out outfits-- meanwhile tutoring for her hard of hearing daughter is "too expensive."
Lennon does not come across to me as a narc, or someone who had NPD. Not all a-holes are narcs. Sometimes they’re just jerks, but they don’t have a serious personality disorder. Elliott Mintz, who was a close friend to John Lennon during his last years, said that Lennon had regretted not being a good father to Julian. Mintz stated that during the summer before he died, he told Mintz that he wished he had been a better father to Julian, along with many other regrets from mistakes he had made. So at least he became more self aware of his past shortcomings. People with NPD are not self aware and would never admit they had failed in some way. That right there tells me that Lennon was probably not a narc.
I have been recently duped by a communal, altruistic narcissistic neighbor. These people are very manipulative. He wanted so badly to help me with my home. But then came the inappropriate remarks, nosy financial questions and the sexual undertones. He became obsessed and would call me incessantly. The last straw was when he asked if I was angry with him just because I hadn’t returned his numerous calls and texts within a 3 hour time period. I recognized the boundaries being crossed but not before allowing him to manipulate me. I feel so stupid because I know the signs of Narcissism but he being so helpful, his way of tricking me and having a self serving agenda to further the relationship. These narcissists are in helping professions and also in religious settings. Be aware!
I remember my passed away Pastor who said one time.. "if I wanted to manipulate you guys ( congregation) I easily could." He was referring to his position, his personality, his possessed knowledge..etc.. " That's the difference between a controlling toxic imposter and a legitimately kind compassionate person. Their conscience lets them know what is right or wrong.
I'm reading the writing of a "saint" but it's notably circuitous, uses third-person references for the self, and boy oh boy are there some other flags in there. :/
Oh my this happened to me in a Jewish community. I thought a narcissist was a narcissist but this breakdown is so revealing. It even made me check myself on one😩 Totally appreciate your videos.
When I was first told that my neighbor and ex friend was a narcissist (by a tarot reader, believe it or not), I found to hard to believe. I thought she was too sweet to be a narcissist. But after watching many videos by experts (including Dr. Ramani and Dr. Les Carter) I finally realized that there are different types of narcs and they can be very deceiving.
I need to say this: Validation for me comes from inside of myself. I don't need others to do it for me. I could never rely on others. My worth comes from me.
You have described AA. There are a TON of narcissists in AA and a lot of the "survivors" really hate it. It is VERY cultist in a lot of places. I don't ever recommend it unless I recognize narcissism in the drinker. They need the simplistic delivery of being taught how to self-reflect (steps, 4,5,6-->6 is gross though your sponsor tells you about your "defects" and a step full of shaming.) There are a lot of other addiction organizations now. My personal favorite is Tempest but there are others.
My mom would always be so kind and go above and beyond for my friends but was so mean to me. But all my friends would constantly tell me how great and amazing she was. 😭
Omg 😳 this is my mom. She was a teacher (now retired) and my whole life I’ve had her students come up to me when they find out she’s my mom and tell me how lucky I am, she’s such a wonderful person, etc. I always think to myself “you have no idea what she’s really like.” She’s a completely different person with her students than she is with her kids. I used to get so jealous of how sweet and nice she was with her students.
Gosh, I didn't think about that one very bad counselor I had. She was such a narcissist! She told me to repress my feelings. I left that day and never went back. I felt abused.
Man, the pictures of people I know fitting this bill are flying by. Odd that it wasn’t until I was thrown overboard in my relationship that I started having less tolerance for these folks. 🤔 now it makes SO MUCH SENSE! I also know some people that have integrity for integrity’s sake. Now if I could just remember where he went 😂 Thank you for enlightening us Doc.
I lived amongst a group of this type that fed each other's needs and encouraged weird abuses. I'd just suffered a tragedy and would be almost in a fugue state sometimes and people would talk around me as if I didn't hear because sometimes I didn't. They all loathed each other. They spoke worse of their "friends " and support systems than any invading army. I hate to burst bubbles, but they're yoga gurus and fitness instructors every single one. Paragons of the community and sought after role models and they have nothing but contempt for 90% of their students
Goldilocks, Yes, a "resume" society. People lie on their resumes all the time. I once applied for a job and told the owner of the small company that I had zero experience, but wanted to learn - I was young and strong then, but the job title asked for experience. He said, "Let's try you out then, and see how you do." I worked for him for several years and learned a lot from him. He was a kind person, willing to give a person a chance.
@@notagain779 I've never lied, if they don't want me I sure don't want them! Didn't I leave it all behind to be a stay at home mom, 25 yrs and counting, my kids deserve the best, that's me, no way do they get seconds, even though now that they're young adults I only get seconds of their time! Oh well, works for me!
@@notagain779 I finally got a chance to be a server without serving experience … I was honest I have to start somewhere? Lol how do you get experience if you don’t start somewhere. I never got that.
Maybe not "BUT let's recognize" but instead "AND let's recognize" - because (as the child of two of these types) I think these things really do go together
I had shared with my catholic nun friend about the narcissism. I told her that the knowledge of narcissism answering my unresolved questions so far, and I see Dr. Ramani saying thing rightly. I shared with her Dr. Ramani's coping skills with my modification for the situations. It is essential to learn rather than simply love blindly and obey blindly. I asked her to observe and practice these coping skills for the answers.
After all it is not about what good you do but why you do it. To me motivation is the most important thing. That's how I bulid relationships - at home, getting new social contacts and friends or at the workplace. Better do nothing for me and say nothing than acting out of wrong motivation. Honesty is an expensive thing and you can't expect it from cheap people.
Thank you so much for this! I have never understood my mother as deeply as I do now. Struggling with some pretty bad depression on top of persistent depressive disorder. My mother was the ultimate do gooder. But I felt like we had a cold, loveless, professional relationship. Hearing this is so validating. Thank you.
My mother has to be this. She is now a Buddhist nun. My whole life everyone told me how amazing, kind and compassionate she was. In a religion where you are suppose to be letting go of one’s ego lack of empathy can seem very much like that.
9:42 “If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I do not benefit at all.” 1 Corinthians 13:1-3 It’s sad that so many “spiritual” people don’t get it. Jesus said “So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.” Matthew 6:2
What I've noticed with these types, is that if you stay neutral in your assessment of their wonderfulness, they probably will leave you alone. Dodge that bullet while you still can! They need to know you're falling for their self - pats on their own backs before they start thinking they can pull you around by the nose through manipulations to benefit their causes, and help further their reputation as important movers and shakers. If you get pulled in, they'll make sure your efforts go unnoticed and in the background, though. The one I know is now in her 80's, and terrified of not leaving a big enough legacy to herself, or not having crowds at her funeral.
What was she like in her 20's? Things certainly might change knowing when you'll be gone or could it just boost the stakes of narcissistic supply and demand?! The folly in falling for the 'communal narcissist' I detect can be almost coined with the pitfalls of believing that mandate 'you must respect your seniors'. Dr Ramani certainly stirs the pot with this series... yet to me it still seems a fair margin between the nature of some people and that of being pathological dysfunction. Either way it can certainly get to you or claim someone something that you genuinely care for.
@@bertzerker747 , What was she like in her 20's? I can only say that she was divorced three times by the time I knew her. Not to say that means anything, but...I only knew I was done, also.
The worst damage is the fact that the people this type of narcissist abuse won't be helping to fix the world because they whether will become jaded and think all good causes are a sham or they will be to busy healing themselves to actually help out.
Need to say,you really know these creatures well,one I was with was bits of lot of different parts in one weird thing,I felt evil with my ex like it exuded out of his pores, he or it was. Nice hook, then so nasty confused as heck, I turned out mad, I escaped it needed therapy after and I am an empathy, I am a lie detector so I knew after a while he's a lier to every deep part. He was a lie, fake and nasty, injoyed hurting me smiling with a evil grin at confusing me. I'm so greatful you are here as this keeps me feeling very validated, no one believed me so I needed you. Thank you. I would have hurt him badly to defend myself first so I left and I'd never ever harm anyone I'm not violent but by God I hit him never ever before never he brought out hate that I never knew I had, I said to him what are you many times, no love no life in him he was soulless, Godless. 🙏
My father, who I cut off 2 years ago DEFINITELY falls under this category. He spent his whole life trying his hardest to be the best of the best in nonprofit organizations in was always first in line to get us signed up for community events. Meanwhile, he was verbally, physically, emotionally, and even sexually abuse at home when no one was watching. Also totally isolated us from all family. It's so confusing growing up when your father is doing all these horrible things and everyone else is validating him constantly and got mad when I didn't like him. A lot of people assumed I was going through an "emo phase" which basically lasted my whole life until I got the tools and resources to set myself free! I'm becoming more and more me every day. Thank you Dr Ramani for everything you do. My mom is still in denial. Your videos help me understand and be able to explain these topics with my friends and family and it's been a life-altering experience.
have had a few of those in my extended family. . . and have faced them outside the family too. . . was never believed by others when I told them what I knew about the communal narcissist. . . my college roommate's adoptive father was a preacher. . . I would constantly find him and my roommate in bed doing weird stuff. . . they'd only kiss and cuddle in front of me but I heard moans and groans when they'd go into the room adjacent to ours. . . and then this preacher started making moves on other students in an all-male school. . . and was banned from the campus for ONE semester. . . and then was back doing the same thing. . . he was a supposedly inspiring leader who adopted kids but then did god knows what to them. . . being a teenager in a foreign country and having been raised by two narcissists I didn't realise how crazy it was to see them two in bed. . . having this creep appear out of nowhere at any given time and just lurking around. . . be very verbally abusive to my roommate. . . bringing other old creeps into the room. . . and vilifying me because I think he knew I saw right through him. . . . he cut off my roommate financially once he was banned from campus and couldn't abuse him anymore.. . . people started asking me why I didn't come forward as if I had some part in it but I was halfway around the world having escaped two narcissists and was just so confused. . . and nobody would have believed me had other students not come forward. . . . absolutely disgusting. . . and I am sure this continues in the name of the father. . . .
Matthew 12:35(KJV) - A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
@@dakoderii4221 Love that verse. He talked a lot about watching out for people who pretend to be good but aren't, he couldn't stand hypocrites & knew how to call then out. That's why he said beware of those who potray outward goodness but inside are full of deadmans bones. Wash the inside of the cup first, then the outside. He was way ahead of his time on the narcissist issue, shoot the whole Bible is.
I understand why you believe insincere intentions negate good results. Logically speaking, negative intent would cancel positive result. However, I chose to believe that nothing is wasted. Consider the current political climate, very negative with questionable intentions (regardless of party). People are now more interested, more engaged in the management of our country. That's a good thing (regardless of part).
Racism is a byproduct of narcissism. Narcissists tend to think in “black or white” terms , no gray area. When looking at slavery , all of the slave owners fall under the cluster B personality type. Anything that can separate the narcissist from the victim is what they will use. Another contemporary example in American society is the issue of black men being killed by white cops . When you compare this society to the narcissistic family dynamic. The controller that be are the cluster B personality. Whites in society are the “gold child” and blacks are the scapegoat.” Everyone else in society is typically ignored. Basically, you can’t have racism without narcissism. I hope this helps.
I married (and divorced) a covert, communal narc. I won't go into details, but just say, his baby/child and i were in deadly danger, with horrendous behind closed doors attacks, as well as stealing, as well as trying to set me up to be blamed for it. How he's treated every wife, esp 1st (me) and the 2nd (the 3rd and 4th worked him out quickly and got rid of), and our child is some story to tell, while he played the charitable guru around many countries, including motivational speaking tours. So i know this sicko type very well.
I’ve been watching Dr. Ramani for years as I navigate a very toxic relationship. This spiritually woke comment is very eye opening. The holier than thou attitude has permeated every aspect of our relationship. He jokes about starting a commune (cult). At first I was literally bowing to him because he was such an altruistic community focused person. He will talk about all the amazing work (“Gods work”) he does, but can’t wash his dishes or do his own laundry or cook his own meal at home. It’s my responsibility. He treats me like a servant who should be at his will due to his title.
My dad was a pastor & exhibited these same behaviors. I remember as a young child trying so hard to please him, he couldn't care less. He was very emotionally distant at home. Would lock himself in his room away from us. So cold hearted & physically violent toward me. Yet the church members revered him to the fullest.
yuck. Not uncommon (you are not alone) but this is truly _repugnant._ I’m sorry to hear this. I no longer attend any church for this reason, but do still like Jesus. Here are words from him on the subject: “The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. _If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!_
My narcs non-profit is her family and even certain friends. It's very much a savior complex in giving everything for family and using it to gaslight and control. She constantly emotionally abuses her spouse, me (her daughter), and my two brothers. Everything is constantly about the superficial so we were very much drilled on not sharing any "shameful" or authentic events going on to friends, other family members, anyone. She is a nurse now that works for a nonprofit and church, and she only works there for experience because she wasn't able to get a job. She never once chose to work there to help others. She often takes biblical texts out of context to keep me from making my own choices, or to invalidate my own opionions even though I am an adult. I'm wise enough to recognize that she is using these texts out of context, and the spiritual abuse. My mom is a nightmare of a person.
my mother always worked to "help" people, depending on whats on trend. Saving dogs? Teaching poor kids? Suddenly selling herself as a psychologist and creating an autism help group (???) CHECK check check
I'm a magnet for this type of narcissist because I'm poor and disabled with an autistic child and no family support, but I'm well-educated and, before I got sick, was well-connected in social services circles. So my gratitude and admiration is communicated to the kind of people communal narcissists want to impress. I call myself a charity victim of people like this because if they want to give me something or do something for me, I don't dare refuse. And if they do something for my son, they seem to feel they've purchased a controlling interest in his upbringing. I think they really believe they want to be friends with me because we share a lot of the same concern for social justice, but they just fly into a rage if I insist I don't want their help.
Yes, these kinds of N's are very difficult to deal with. You want to believe in them and in the shared cause, which allows you to be blindsided by their vindictiveness and egos. Truly you would be healthier and more effective in making progress for whatever cause is close to your heart without them. Even what they say they believe ALWAYS takes a back seat to their own self-promotion and virtue-signaling.
Oh my, the little gifts given out of the blue. N sibling (a.k.a. Managerial Molly, Dominating Donna, Bossy Betty) walked over to my desk twice in the past couple of years (works in the same building) to do this after mistreating me. One of those times, she spread out little trinkets on a silky piece of cloth and told me to pick one, then huffed and slunk away when I declined. And I'm at work in a crowded office. In the family of origin, she likes to delegate work to me. Wants to be the emissary, the go-between for others who need stuff and she tries to get me to help. I cut out the middle man and started asking those people directly what they need, and it's mostly nothing at all. She talks to me as if I'm her unpaid employee, also dishing out guilt and talking in code. I'm now down to ignoring all communication because I'm having a bad reaction to even seeing her name. Her funniest text? "I'd like to let you know that I have no intention of butting into your life." This was in response to my text: "It's a difficult time for sure." Which was in response to her talking about someone in the family who was sick. Crazytown!
This is like my awakening. I was gas lighted by a communal narcissist that wanted to use me as a way to combat the his opposition at a church I went to in cali. I thought I was some kind of psych experiment but now I know I was. Thank god I left. That's a shitstorm that would have thrown me over the edge.
This actually brings some clarity to a situation I’m facing right now with a pastor. They don’t fit the regular definitions of Narcissistic, but definitely this type is closer to explaining it.
Yes. Thanks Dr Ramani, if a person helps people to look good but abuses their wife and children, how many generations of theirs will suffer? Lots and lots, untold numbers.
Oh man, an old friend of mine once shared with me that her father used to sexually abuse her as a child, and he was highly respected in his community, probably a malignant communal narcissist I assume. When people found out what he was doing to her he apparently committed suicide. My poor friend! She was so confused growing up and suffered such trauma! Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing all of the information you share! It clarifies so much about our back stories and sorts out so much confusion.
I had a coworker like this. We work at a school for students with disabilities. No one is more dedicated than her. She even has a side hustle as a life coach and claims to channel divine beings. She has a past life connection with a famous person. She would engage in malicious gossip nonstop and would accuse anyone that got on her bad side of being an attention-seeker. She told our supervisor lies about me and then tell me I should be grateful for her “mediation,” which was really triangulation.
Thank you for your wisdom. i am so reassured that I can stand alone and be happy with that as a result of your videos and the shares i read in comments. i am a senior: this easing of the pain has been a long time coming. Bless you and all who share here. I feel so much stronger.
I just saw a trending video on RUclips before this video and realized the parents in question were maybe communal narcissists. I will not name the RUclipsrs, but their story speaks to this type of issue, their journey to do good was more for themselves than the child in question.
are those maybe the parents that adopted a child and then gave it back or something? I didn't watch videos on the topic even though many channels did them neither have I seen their video, so I don't know what exactly happened, but that is what I caught of it
@@Laura-vs6fs Yes, exactly. From what I got from the story, they wanted to adopt a child with a disability that was manageable and profit from showing their honorable helpfulness towards the toodler, but when they realized his complications were worse after I think 2 years or so of having him, they needed to find him another family. What I find sad about this this story is that they needed to adopt a child with "manageable' disabilities as a way of showing how honorable they were, sad for all 5 minors included in that family.
@@sarag.5093 that is horrible. Especially, since there are people out there, who do everything they can for their disabled children, but have to give them away involuntarily, since the children sometimes need more professional help. These people need a reality check big time and I hope they actually learn something from the backlash their getting. As somebody, who may adopt in the future, this is so weird as I see things in a very different manner.
I know someone from church who helps every week passing out food baskets to families in need. He posts frequently on his volunteerism on FB. But, he is extremely conservative and posts his hatred of "welfare queens" and other "freeloaders". What would these people he helps think of his tirades? He's contemptuous about the very people he helps.
Wow Dr. Ramani, you really hit the nail on the head. I have a story I wish I could tell you that would illustrate this "type" perfectly. I have many but one in particular. I can't tell it here out of fear of repercussions. But just know, it's so validating to hear you acknowledge and name this particular type of narcissism.
THANK YOU DR. RAMANI for reminding me I don’t have to play the “one day I’ll be good enough” game with my narc ex, my grandiose narc dad, and now with what I’m learning is a communal narc mother. Your firmness around how they rarely ever change is what I NEEDED to put my foot down for my future quality of life. I’m moving on for me. THANK YOU!!!
A painful video for me to watch, and frustrating...because your description of the religious communal narcissists around the 6-minute mark is exactly what I experienced. Every word thunders with truth! Thank you, Doctor. And what was I trying to highlight to my church leaders? That my ex-wife, a teacher at the affiliated school, had turned my children against me after I separated from her and after I decided not to go back to her after she begged me to (parental alienation) and they had endorsed her protection order (that I was an abusive father and abusive husband), they stood by her and totally shunned me...their stone-walling to my emails was one of the most troubling things I've ever endured. I was a member of that church for 12 years and a Sunday School teacher for 4. Miraculously, I have my son back (the severe-no contact-alienation lasted 2 years and 9 months). I plan to write the story (without risking re-alienation).
Communal narcissists also get a lot of support from those who benefit from the "good" things they do. It's a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" kind of philosophy. Then, people are willing to overlook whatever the narcissist does that isn't nice because they want/depend on their help.
This crosses into something I've thought about when have heard about some cultic religious groups. I watched the series on A&E about Scientology (as ne example) and have heard about other groups also. These groups are clearly run by narcissists, but it is even a larger issue than these communal narcissists. The cultish people are controlling large groups at one time and turn people against each other. In fact they seem to try to make the others in the group evil and hostile like them so that many in the group would be fine with harming others.
Yes. When I was recuperating from a bad car wreck 14 years ago, I became fascinated by the $cientology cult... because of the negative impact it had on its followers. And its leaders are indeed narcissistic. All very Jim Jones.
The power through privilege and conformity in group movements. A potent potential to undermine the common senses. If one gets things wrong they might as well all do, however did they ever start in the first place and whose taking the fall?! Meglomanic elation isn't a fresh breeze but things are usually sealed until the punch line gets delivered. Dr Ramani spreads her ground with lots of variables, no knives in her back. To avoid nacisstic injury some claim it to the matters of being mindful when to good advice we must be entirely wary. I like your response concerning cults, and agree they can be intentionally more harmful by their regard of entitlement with exclusive powers. And if there are options for the member are they negotiable with the terms? I'm going to keep watching these series...
If you look at L. Ron Hubbard he was the epitome of king narc. These people have no empathy and are completely shameless which is why they can do this stuff. They wait until people are in step 4 or whatever before they lay the zenu story on them. I guess they feel they are good and indoctrinated at that point to lay the science fiction story on them and low and behold it seemed to work. The internet was the beginning of the end for scientology because they couldn't go after everyone speaking out against them and try and destroy all of them like they use to be able to do.
My mother was an upstanding school teacher. Can't count how many times students/former students would stop me to say how lucky I was to have such a wonderful mother. Ha, always wanted to say "you wouldn't say that if you lived with her!". And yep, was seen as the ungrateful/awful daughter.
And yes, people who virtue signal about their concern for people on the other side of the world or the underprivileged often treat their own families and 'loved ones' terribly. It's like their whole value system is totally inverted.
Kindness is King. True kindness. Look at how they treat their family and take away all the crap they buy then “trips, dinners, clothing, cars, etc while they abuse then mentally and are cruel along with raging. The mask falls off. And oh boy run if you are around when it does.
My sister-in-law actually pointed out the hypocrisy of my mom when I felt confused about the way in which my mom treated me. My sister-in-law once worked for my mom, who is beyond inspiring, and it wasn't until she saw how my mom favored my sister and treated me that she saw my mom's true colors. She even tried to sort of save me by introducing me to her family and as difficult as it is to say this, I am lucky that her brother was in the process of a failing marriage, because 5 years later, he and I are now married and his support, along with the support of my in-laws, has shown me a sense of normalcy that I hadn't fully seen in life. My husband became my counselor forcing me to open my eyes to the toxicity of my raising. My mother (an apparent Communal), my brother (Covert) and possibly my sister all have narcissistic qualities. However, my sister seems the least severe in that I feel her narcissism is more of a way to cope with and avoid disappointing my mother who has dubbed her the golden child. My invisible/scapegoat role affected me more than the trauma of being abused by my dad.
Good deeds don't cancel out bad deeds. Plain and simple. Same with just bc someone hurt you and you are a victim, doesn't cancel out the fact you did something bad to somebody else and are a perpetrator. There is such a thing as a bigger picture of a person, but we should analyze a situation by itself bc otherwise it can lead to bad judgement.
I agree with you Dr. Ramani, if you are kind you will be kind to everyone without exception...but speak the truth in Love and not compromise your own conscience.
Ha ☺️ I agree. My therapist asked why I continue to watch this material even after I have the gist of the situation. I told her, Dr. Ramani and a couple others are my support system as I strive to make life changes. I’ve lived the lie for so many years, a dose of realism helps me stand tall and looking forward. It’s ok to love myself, take care of my own needs, and make serious life changes.
This is my covert narcissist mother. She will feed the poor, give other people money, etc, all while sitting back and looking at her children struggle financially. She also loves working in the children’s ministry at church meanwhile she doesn’t want to be bothered with her own grandkids.
My ex had a communal narcissistic mum. She made him an extension of herself! She uses all the ‘good things’ she has done for people/church including adopting another son to ‘replace him’ (her words to him). She is exactly the way Dr Ramani talks about in this video - she would gossip and triangulate and her words are neither nice nor helpful but always put downs and gossip (this did not seem Christian like in my mind because I have no belonged to a church that had Christians of this sort) She needs to take credit for stuff we normal people do for church because we are serving God and loves people and the church nothing else. They go to those churches that actually do give them ‘credit’ so they keep feeding off that. He then got into it and was doing live church online for them and feeding off the 8-10 old ladies that would come up after the service to say ‘thank you’. It does not sit well with me - it says in the Bible “But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,” Matthew 6:3 NKJV When we serve in church we do not want recognition, in fact I am glad I belong to a huge church we will never finish thanking everyone in the platform if we have to thank every volunteer - car park, meet and greet, ushers, musicians, stage and tech crew, TV, interpretation, kids ministry etc you name it we all do it because it is part of serving and building the house of God. Don’t even get me started on the fact that they do these acts to get recognition and when I ask why they do not tithe he said ‘using his time to do this is his way of tithing’ at the time I had no idea and he always had a good way of convincing me but now I realize - no one knows about his grandiose gesture of tithing but doing these platform things and getting pointed out for it feeds them. Most of us don’t care who knows what we do on Sunday and we would still tithe even if we earn very little there is still always 10% from whatever it is that we earn. He told me he can never see himself at a church like mine and I can see why because our church is so big and we have better musicians, technology hence if he did anything he won’t feel seen - does not feed his narcissistic supply. Also I was at first puzzled why he is always spending time with cancer and broken people and when he comes to my church group gathering he would yell at me in the car of ‘why we are going to the beach’ etc etc (when he knew perfectly well we are going but was able to someone make it my fault for ‘tricking’ him into it) and would spend the whole day not socializing or interacting with my healthy friends. Or another time he would complain that the whole group was Asian (no one even spoke in another other language but English and most only knew English because they were born here) and he felt out of place when everyone was so nice and welcoming and no one was rude to him. I guess they just can not participate in a healthy people gathering. 🤷🏻♀️ Something that occurred to me that I thought it was strange back then and now totally makes sense. He is constantly asking for recognition and did a charity fund raising and when he did not get as much money he wanted (to be fair I donated twice to get him over the line!) he blamed me for it. He reckons my post on his fb that said ‘we are not captivated by comparison because we are cultivated by purposes’ is what made people NOT DONATE. Yes, everything that fails in his life is somehow MY fault. I am the ‘family’ that suffers, everyone else is more important and he missed the final inspection of the rental property because he had to ‘finish off’ the projector project at church - no he could not take a couple of hours out to do what he said he would do because my thing would get him no recognition but the church project means all of the 20 people that attends that service can thank and know he did it for ‘them’ (really for his ego).
Their kindness is currency in their view. They really do believe that they have purchased and own the people to whom they’ve shown kindness. After the purchase, they have no reason to honor the personhood, privacy, feelings or outside relationships of their “property”.
Yeah, you deserve everything for free and have to give nothing back, sweetheart
Tao Tao.. So true...! It's sickening.
omg yes! this is why it's so hard for me to accept anything from them, and then they try and force me to accept it, and the gaslighting and manipulation begins
@@imjustme2876 Yes, I try and do the same as you and not accept anything from them, but they have a way of forcing their "gifts" or gestures of "help" on to us and we end up looking ungracious and unappreciative for not wanting it!
@@lotusflower6193 yes so true!
I think that being raised in a narcissistic ruled home is like growing up in a cult
So very true!
Absolutely!
Cults are run by cluster B's. I heard something that said if you're in a "relationship" with one of them it's like being in a cult of one. Most people, including me, have no idea what's being done to them or how their being manipulated. You know somethings wrong but you can't put your finger on it, while you are slowly having the life sucked out of you.
Yuck! Gotta find that door 🚪 and lock 🔐 it from the outside, protect the herd!
a family definitely can be cult-like, especially regarding secrets...
I would say these are one of the most dangerous types. You don't see it coming. Deceitful. These are the wolves in sheep clothing. Thank you Dr. Ramani outstanding! ❤
They are very deceiving
Not only do you not see it coming, but after you do see it and attempt to call them out or warn others, you are scorned by all the folks who think this person is the cat's pajamas. You are labeled as "jealous" or "petty" because everyone sees them as a saint.
My ex is exactly this type and she is a monster.
@@wmhhealth2018 Ouch. You'r Blessed that she's your ex.
@@thinkforyourselfjohn3163 I am lucky to be alive.
Anyone who ever volunteered in humanitarian causes know exactly who this is! the hardest part is letting anyone believe you when you say they're nothing like what the camera shows. it makes you question your own reality
They always speak from a script.
I had someone who was respected by everyone but deep down inside she was a narc.
Don't let yourself be gaslit 💜💜
Soooooo true!!!
Bahahaha
I've always been suspicious of humanitarians that have horrible personal lives-multiple marriages, children that are on drugs or have committed suicide.
My father is a doctor, founder of charity and volunteers Sunday school at church and he is a narcissist. Thank you for this video. I thought no body would have believed in me.
Ughh! Licensed Narcissists are the worst! They hide self-righteously behind the mask of their license.
My Dads an accountant, and is also an abusive communal narcissist that drives everyone close to him insane. His idea of helping is covering up his past abusive behavior with medication.
@@crongusclips7836 I am sorry to hear that. Yeah, Narcissism is very common and it's definitely a pandemic. Society's narcissism is enabled by the rapid moving environment into the future. Everyone deep down fears being forgotten and lost in the shuffle of events. So, we make noise, we try to stamp ourselves into the moment. Time is like a strong wind that sweeps everything away, so we struggle to keep grounded. Recognized. Humanity knows that Time dissolves everything to nothing. And this fear destroys our sense of value, because we know we are slowly moving into a waiting abyss. To be eaten whole.
Recently I’m feeling like no one is normal around me, very 😞
Oh the normals are relaxing.... Not wanting to bother... Anyone bothering you?
Truly kind people are all over. The bad guys just get around more 😁
Animal rescue has so many cruel people in charge. Isn't that interesting??
Don't worry , make time to do things you love .
I used to feel the same way. I still do sometimes
@@shastafog2516 you speak facts. I was a vet tech for a well known vet amd this lady who was a Doberman rescue was RIDICULOUS when it came to them! One day she kept trying to tell me how to do my job to which i promptly told her she needed to step out of the room so we could work on her rescue dog. She tried to argue and finally i said if you don't like bow thi vs are done here, you can find another vet! She knew she couldn't tho because the vet aas already contracted out by the group she worked for. Finally she shut up.
My adopted father was a reverend .He was like this. I was a great kid and he would not allow me to do anything. He always seemed annoyed with me and disconnected.If he had to buy me clothes he made me feel so guilty about it.
I remember winning a bible contest to make him happy but he could care less. I had good grades and got in to 6 colleges. He told me I was worthless because I didn’t play sports and didn’t have a scholarship. But I was playing sports before I was adopted. He and the rest of the family took that privilege away from me. He always seemed to be pleased with the young men at church and the family, but never me.
I remember when he died, I told myself he was a good man. He was just old fashioned. Sadly, I was wrong.
We would verbally abuse me every day and make me clean like a slave. He would also make fun of me during dinner and if I turned my head in the direction of the tv it had to go off. Everyone else in the family could watch tv, just not me.
Shortly after I moved out, the family seemed to collapse of themselves. My adopted father got dementia and died within 6 years of me leaving. I swear I was that family’s life force in a weird way. It’s like the abuse they inflicted on me gave them power.
Empaths, these people are very deceiving but it best to walk away so you can heal.
That's a sad story. The worst is hearing of someone adopted only to be abused. Despicable. I'm so sorry.
deb sabatino narcissists do this quite often. I was one of many the family took in to abuse. It’s like a cycle for them. Most people who are adopted are doing it for validation, abuse and money.They tend to want to place themselves around society’s most vulnerable. Sadly, I’m learning there are a lot in healthcare. I feel like they function better around people who are suffering.
I see the association being the power centre in their communion. I know by myself experience. You were the centre and they needed to advert your attention away from even your own needs and wants as much as they cared (?). Do gooders that wouldn't really let you do anything? You might have been a plug in actually what was missing for them.
Some parents outright exchange their relationship with the child for a fluffy lapdog. I'd actually start wonder whose getting called for dinner sometimes...
Seems like an obsessive to control state.
I hope they had anyhow saved you some chronic sports injuries back in the day, and peace was eventually made with your Father Reverend 🙏
Wow. Thank you for sharing. I had the same thing happen with my family. I felt like I was the glue that kept them together. Even though I was never the leader. I thought having these thoughts, that I was the glue, was a bit arrogant. Now that I understand narcissism and it's energetic/spiritual component I get it.
They really do suck our life force. Or maybe their demons need negative energy so we produce negative energy for them to feed their pet demons.... I really think the old tales about vampires, werewolves, witches were metaphorical stories about what we today called cluster Bs.
I saw this in healthcare too! My ex was a narcissistic monster, but to his patients he was wonderful. At home he was violent, sadistic and controlling, but no one believed it until he started losing it at work causing problems in the office and acting out like the closet lunatic he really was.
But he was so adored and basked in that adoration but his fan club never heard his rude and hurtful comments about them! So evil.
Love that you called out PTA moms at 5:50. The PTA is such a hotbed of these types of narcs.
YES. All kind of ' club kinds'. I'm thinking of the tape dance teacher for my kids when they were little. I had to put her in check a couple of times..
Yes, so funny! 😁
Mazzy Star 😍
Church, tutoring, charity causes enough to just make you say I'm not getting involved. It's now in Social work ,psychology and Medical fields rampantly because government funding is a automatic. They building empires with thier Flying monkeys diagnostic of mental health, drug addiction gets the flying monkeys government checks. Then get there loving narcissist Dr. A government funded medical clinic, treatment center or even better housing facility. It's real estate property and rampant. It's so bad you happen to actually lose your job and need help the Narcissist can't stand you showing up. Because government programs don't cover normal people.
They fuel them up with drugs to run you out when you're on to them.
Narcissistic Attroneys are getting filthy rich off the illegal immigrant situation as well as illegal cuts from business
Spot on. I think a big part of many peoples experiences with communal narcissists in particular is feeling like an instrument of support with little agency, and then feeling like a bad and uncharitable person for setting boundaries. Communal narcissists dismiss the needs and personhood of those closest to them when they conflict with what they want to accomplish for their image. They have a pushy way of trying to recruit their loved ones to their validation mission, committing their loved one’s time and energy to things they didn’t ask to be part of, often to the detriment of their needs/goals, and then accusing them of being uncaring or not a good person when they try to set a boundary. For example, offering their partner’s time, energy, and skills to a stranger without asking and then becoming angry when the partner/family member declines, feeling frustrated that they can’t fulfill their promise to the 3rd party and how that makes them look. They then lash out or withhold to punish the family member. Also wanting the partner/family member to be present for functions or events but being simultaneously overly-concerned with and trying to manage their image, e.g. expecting children or partners to negate important parts of themselves around others or outright lie, lest it tarnish their image by association. If the partner or family member subsequently doesn’t want to be part of the event or play along they are “unsupportive” and must not really love the narcissist. I think a lot of this behavior is also very, very prevalent in the nonprofit world, with directors constantly verbalizing their client’s or community’s humanity whilst bullying employees on a daily basis.
THIS. Imagine being dragged to an orphanage by your saintly parents & once you arrive home, they literally beat the cr*p out of you for "misbehaving" or not "being friendly" enough. Both parents have a noblesse oblige thing going on, they'd go on and on about how important it is to give to the needy & how it's our moral obligation because we're privileged yada-yada... Yet never care how their own children felt emotionally abandoned. Not to mention like pawns & toys in a performance. Whatever. 🤷🏻♀️🐈💜
Mystically Lumia Im so sorry you went through this. I was adopted by this type. I was beaten at least once a week by my adopted mother. She hated me because I was authentic and she wasn’t. Ugh it’s tough
@@reboundingfromnarcissistic5386 sorry about your experience. I can't believe anyone would go through the trouble of the adoption process only to beat the child.
@@mysticallylumia mommy dearest SMH i feel yo pain
Mystically Lumia happens all the time movie mommy dearest its all show perfect for narcissist So they can use the adopted child like a Trophy 🏆 hunter until the girl gets into teens and can’t be controlled anymore...Its horrible if your adopted u already have orphan spirit and abandonment issues..
@@mysticallylumia I have worked in home health care for about 10 years and there are families that adopt children just to get a check. Sometimes it is so obvious when I go to the house. They don't pay any attention to the child at all and it is so sad to me. There's a special place in hell 4 people like this. My last case had two children that were adopted that we're special needs and had to have a nurse 24/7. All they care about is the paycheck. There are some that really truly care however and they are a true blessing to this world. I'm sorry for what you went through. Bless you dear one.
Nothing is more important than their public image. If you support them you’re good, if you question them you’re bad. Black and white only please!
🎯
I've been working in a Buddhist center for some time and it was a living hell. From a religious point of view the "good" that communal narcissists do doesn't even remotely outweigh the negative, because sooner or later what they're doing comes out and in addition to the individuals' suffering the abuse causes great damage to the religion.
I know so many people in yoga like this. I know a yoga studio owner exactly like this. How amazing that this is defined here.
jtshawtek The movie “Bikram” was a great example of a malignant communal narc.
Ha....me, too. I quit the studio and now practice with Adriene right here on youtube.
Nichole Browning yes....and it continues in Orange County....
1000000% yes! I used to laugh at the ones who would say “just came from
yoga!” and were hitting people with their yoga mat in the grocery store without awareness... then i realized, who I’m married to does the exact same thing to a different degree. Out. Real yoga is in every moment and step and action, not just on a yoga mat.
💯!!!
Communal narcissism is rampant in the yoga community. I am so grateful for this channel to help me heal from the supposed healing spaces.
Hello from Russia. I'm a social lawyer and have made series for Russian-speaking auditorium about toxic people in social work industry. That's how many of them are to be called - communal narcissists! Children's psychologists, fundraisers and cats' and dogs' shelters owners - I saw many communal narcissists among them, unfortunately. Thanks for your lectures!
💯
Animal rescues are the worst
This explains perfectly why my mother was a paragon of a teacher, whom everybody loved with multiple credentials in early childhood education but was ragefull, angry, mean and abusive behind closed doors. It explains some of the secrets of my childhood and why we were all so triangulated. It also explains why at the end of her career she was fired.
I understand. My mother was a DPS worker and prided herself about this yet severely physically, verbally, emotionally and psychologically abused me for years. To the public, she was a beacon of light. To me, she was (still is) the Devil.
Hee Hee, so many of the "new-age spiritualists" are seriously afflicted with communal narcissism! I run from all narcs, but these types really make me wanna barf...
My dad had a bit of communal narcissism, and we kids were neglected unless there was something that made him look good!
Thank You Doctor Ramani
So you know my “enlightened” mother?
so many enlightened woman, great comment
My dad, a pastor used to starve us. He had a refrigerator in his bedroom where he would keep food for himself while the one in the kitchen would be completely empty. We used to eat at the neighbors’ place. And one day he said “if you tell pipo that I’m starving you, no one will believe you”.
that's evil... I'm sorry
We were overseas missionaries and my husband is either this type of narcissist blended with covert narcissism (the, see-how-humble-and-mild-I-am variety), and/or has high-functioning Asperger's mixed in.... we were told (bullied) that we HAD to smile at church or in pictures, even after fighting, yelling, crying , etc., all the way there or when at home leading up to the event. It was a living hell on earth.... so sad and painful.
That's a situation with in-built isolation if you worked outside your home country and in another language and culture. That must have been truly awful.
My father is a pastor and growing up felt like how you wrote, so I know how rough that must have felt for you! I was homeschooled, not allowed to get my license or date until 18 so I was depressed yet didn't realize that that wasnt normal until just a few years ago!
Oh my gosh yes!!! This is what I am thinking my ex "has".
Imagine there are 2 dogs, each in a room. A person enters the 1st room and kicks the 1st dog. The person then moves to the next room and proceeds to pet, groom and feed the 2nd dog. This person is still a dog kicker.
As much as being nice to the second dog is a good *action* , it doesn't make the person a good *person* .
Utilitarians might tell you that the person's morality doesn't matter, as long as they're helpful for the greater good. I personally think it's a weird conception of the "greater good" to think it's desirable to have it happen at the expense of a minority of (or even a select few) innocent people. And I think it would be setting the bar pretty low to consider evil doing to be so inevitable that it should be deemed acceptable just as long as things "balance out" at the end of the day... when accepting evil doing is precisely what enables it.
And anyway, whether you're a utilitarian or not, I don't think philosophical views about the world as a whole hold that much when it comes to very specific interpersonal situations. At the end of the day, if someone treats you badly, you don't need to care what else they did with their day or life, that's making excuses for them, and you don't have to agree with everyone who finds them wonderful if all they ever show you is their ugly side. By refusing to enable them, even if you're the only one, you're also contributing to the greater good.
But hey, that's just my opinion. :)
I agree wholeheartedly. Leave the dog kicking thing out of this.
Do you mean Unitarian? I've never heard of Utilitarians, but I do know a Unitarian who has no morals, and believes the end justifies the means. I thought it was just HER. I'm not sure if Unitarians hold this as a belief system.
@@notagain779 Hello! Utilitarianism is a type of philosophy, it's not a religion
@@imjustme2876, Oh! I just looked up Utilitarianism. Thank you for clearing that up. Hummm.... The person I mentioned is not only a Unitarian, but she's also a Utilitarian. I narrowly escaped a trap that would have cost me a lot of time and money. In the end, SO MANY people would have been happy, I'd have been duped into it without being able to say much without looking selfish and unkind, and not generous of spirit. (she was good at telling me how generous of spirit I was, until I wanted to🤮.) After she got what she wanted, she'd announce to the group who sit at her feet in admiration, that she had "arranged" for it all to happen. She had already pulled this kind of trick with others, I found out later. People have said to her, "You sure know how to make things happen!" She LOVES it!
@@lorettanericcio-bohlman567 You're right, sorry for picking that metaphor, dogs only deserve love!
I used to date someone like this. The first day we met, he dropped in the conversation (without being prompted) that he was a co-founder of a charity in Africa. He showed me so many pictures of the villages he worked in, but as Dr Ramani said- Every picture was a Kodak moment featuring him. At the time I couldn't believe my luck. What had I done to deserve such a kind and charitable person?
As time went on I noticed how he interacted with those around, always readily bringing up in conversation the good work he did... Even if it was out of context from the original conversation. If he donated money it was usually quite alot but he had to tell everyone about it.
There was a sheer sanctimonious air to him, and behind closed doors he was pretty abusive. He'd always favour the people who he gained the most validation from. He had so many friends, but he used them like a validation leech... then he'd move on to the next one after he drained what he could.
But because he was such a good gaslighter these people never knew what he was doing and would often make time for him but always at his convenience and most the time he wouldn't even show up, because he was being validated by a new face
Thank you again Dr Ramani.
Youre so insightful and I'm glad I've been watching.
Like I’ve said before, this man never even raised his voice. It was always a really gentle tone, he was not only kind to me , but to everyone else. He rescued an iguana from a cat once, and gave it to me to put it in a safe place. I wonder now if that was a tactic, since he knew I’m a nature activist. Plenty of times he did a bunch of favors for me, including paying a month’s rent to “help”. Of course, when I confronted him, he threw that in my face. But as soon as he had me, he shifted into something completely opposite. Even his features changed. It’s like he was a whole different person, and I didn’t recognize him.
As “good” and “benevolent” as these people pretend to be, is how terrible they truly are. When they shift, and show you who they are, it’s scary and one of the most confusing and hurtful experiences. The same person who rocked you in their arms, and seemed to feel something pure for you, is the same person who glares at you wit deep aversion, calls you names, becomes indifferent, starves you emotionally, stops talking to you, laughs at your hurt reactions, but always with that gentle voice, kind disposition, and spiritually evolved facade. The cognitive dissonance is deep, even more when he would accuse me of only seeing the bad things he did over the good (he would proceed to list them).
In conclusion, when I was beginning to feel something for him, it was because of that sheath of rescuer and kindness. Now I understand how the devil can dress itself in light, when I thought it would be obvious to spot him.
Im 55 every narcissist who has betrayed me the worst and the most stealth are the coverts like iquana guy then it starts like chinese water torture drip by drip U think ur losing your mind by that time ur in to deep. When everyone says he’s such a nice guy Run 🏃♀️ very fast. Real men aren’t raised to be overly nice only these parasites that leech & use women..U can Heal I promise 🙏🏻
Love Whyte Thank you, and I have been :)
There are genuinely kind people out there though. My best friend is the nicest person I’ve met, and he loves helping others as well. The key is to spot the subtle differences, and to listen to your gut feeling, your intuition. This guy doesn’t tell the world how good he is, he simply and happily does the action without asking for praise. He genuinely smiles, doesn’t deny his flaws, and embraces his duality of having a light and dark side. Now the dark side is tricky, because my abuser would repeat when he’d done something cruel, “I’m good, but I’m not perfect.” It’s the way it came out, the indifference in his face, how easily he shrugged off my emotions, and it would still hurt. The words still felt like they were meant to hurt. The abuser’s dark side was hurting people and not caring, denying it, not apologizing; my best friend’s dark side is his internal struggles, and how they pour out into the world, yet he works on them, and genuinely apologizes if he accidentally hurt someone else.
Wow!!! "Communical" describes my ex-husband very well. The cognitive dissonance was extremely difficult . The outside world couldn't see what he did behind the scenes. In my opinion this type is the worst because you don't have support for the truth that's happening. I'm grateful beyond measure to be free from those many years.
I agree. The demands they make for "the cause" isolate you and then there is no one around to witness what is really happening. Even when they provide "evidence" that you are at fault, no one knows the real story because they've conspired against you and engaged in selective editing of what they show the world. You have to hang on so that the truth of your character (and theirs) can become evident to people who are generous enough to understand. Hang in there for the people who already know that you have integrity and know who you really are in spite of their smear campaigns.
I meant to write communal but communicable is appropriate too. One of my sons has picked up the traits. Handing it down. We are stronger, wise and more discerning after these relationship experiences.
I went through this too! Had to work in an environment peopled with my husband’s admirers and enablers. But I would not bend nor cower under the silent disapproval, realizing the truth would out sooner or later.
What you learn from these psychos is that people you thought were friends are not. This is the reality of people... many aren’t capable of seeing these monsters for who they are. Best response to their games and dramas is total silence!
This one actually nails how my dad is, I'd say he has similarities with other types as well but the whole "spiritual leader that is a jerk to his family" describes him very well
Right there with you
Right there with you and my spiritual coach mother
I have a neigbour like this. She is her own life's Mother Teresa, if you ask her. Part of housing cooperative, volunteers at school, volunteers at church and all kinds of nonprofits. She tried all kinds of tricks to be part of my life; I got cookies earrings made for me etc. But since the first time I met her, I thought I don't want her in my life. Too bad my son was friends with her son, so I had to be put up with her occasionally. So much gossip about other neighbours, even lying. If something doesn't go her way, there will be a smear campaign. I'm actually part of one too right now. Many people who live her thinks that she's a saint, some know the reality... They can't keep their mask on for too long and truth eventually appears. Oh, and this person was also lying one time of working for two weeks on childrens day summer camp and was bragging how she volunteers and does not get paid for it. Well, it came to light that work was part of her internship for social worker studies. They do absolutely everything to look good.
She sounds just like my neighbor. You were wise not to let yourself get too close to her. Unfortunately, that was not my experience. I had to go through 12 years of confusion and not understanding why she could be so sweet and yet so verbally abusive when things did not go her way. I finally put an end to our friendship and I’ve been so much happier and less stressed ever since.
@kaymuldoon3575 I'm sorry you had to go through that 😥 It's good that she is in the past now tho! Narcissist free life, better life ❤️ God Bless
Been around many such community workers. Thus I limit how I do charity work now. Private and discreet. Thank you Dr. Ramani for all that you do. You articulate our feelings. 🙏
Yep. I was the "bad kid" for not wanting to spend 5 hours in Macy's helping her pick out outfits-- meanwhile tutoring for her hard of hearing daughter is "too expensive."
John Lennon comes to mind. Spoke endlessly of peace and love, but was a cold absentee father to his sons.
He may have been absentee for his first son, but was a full time dad for some time with his youngest....different relationship altogether.
Which makes Julian even sadder I suspect.
Lennon does not come across to me as a narc, or someone who had NPD. Not all a-holes are narcs. Sometimes they’re just jerks, but they don’t have a serious personality disorder.
Elliott Mintz, who was a close friend to John Lennon during his last years, said that Lennon had regretted not being a good father to Julian. Mintz stated that during the summer before he died, he told Mintz that he wished he had been a better father to Julian, along with many other regrets from mistakes he had made. So at least he became more self aware of his past shortcomings. People with NPD are not self aware and would never admit they had failed in some way. That right there tells me that Lennon was probably not a narc.
I have been recently duped by a communal, altruistic narcissistic neighbor. These people are very manipulative. He wanted so badly to help me with my home. But then came the inappropriate remarks, nosy financial questions and the sexual undertones. He became obsessed and would call me incessantly. The last straw was when he asked if I was angry with him just because I hadn’t returned his numerous calls and texts within a 3 hour time period. I recognized the boundaries being crossed but not before allowing him to manipulate me. I feel so stupid because I know the signs of Narcissism but he being so helpful, his way of tricking me and having a self serving agenda to further the relationship. These narcissists are in helping professions and also in religious settings. Be aware!
I remember my passed away Pastor who said one time.. "if I wanted to manipulate you guys ( congregation) I easily could." He was referring to his position, his personality, his possessed knowledge..etc.. " That's the difference between a controlling toxic imposter and a legitimately kind compassionate person. Their conscience lets them know what is right or wrong.
Reminds me of Mother Theresa and Ghandi. They really weren't very nice people, but were doing really nice things.
I have a feeling you should look in a mirror.
@@jimmyj4044 Mmk.
@@Depplova81 how u know that give some info
@@alfordromney2672 Run that by me again?
I'm reading the writing of a "saint" but it's notably circuitous, uses third-person references for the self, and boy oh boy are there some other flags in there. :/
Oh my this happened to me in a Jewish community. I thought a narcissist was a narcissist but this breakdown is so revealing. It even made me check myself on one😩 Totally appreciate your videos.
When I was first told that my neighbor and ex friend was a narcissist (by a tarot reader, believe it or not), I found to hard to believe. I thought she was too sweet to be a narcissist. But after watching many videos by experts (including Dr. Ramani and Dr. Les Carter) I finally realized that there are different types of narcs and they can be very deceiving.
HYPOCRITES!! This is a reminder to trust our gut, and not rationalize or minimize another person's actions when they don't match their words.
I need to say this: Validation for me comes from inside of myself. I don't need others to do it for me. I could never rely on others. My worth comes from me.
You’re describing my childhood living with my father.
The only thing I have to say is: I send you all my love and educate yourself because you are lovable!
Alexandra
❤️
You have described AA. There are a TON of narcissists in AA and a lot of the "survivors" really hate it. It is VERY cultist in a lot of places. I don't ever recommend it unless I recognize narcissism in the drinker. They need the simplistic delivery of being taught how to self-reflect (steps, 4,5,6-->6 is gross though your sponsor tells you about your "defects" and a step full of shaming.) There are a lot of other addiction organizations now. My personal favorite is Tempest but there are others.
My mom would always be so kind and go above and beyond for my friends but was so mean to me. But all my friends would constantly tell me how great and amazing she was. 😭
It took 25 entire years for me to see these signs in my mother. Thank you for explain my entire life in one video!
Omg 😳 this is my mom. She was a teacher (now retired) and my whole life I’ve had her students come up to me when they find out she’s my mom and tell me how lucky I am, she’s such a wonderful person, etc. I always think to myself “you have no idea what she’s really like.” She’s a completely different person with her students than she is with her kids. I used to get so jealous of how sweet and nice she was with her students.
Gosh, I didn't think about that one very bad counselor I had. She was such a narcissist! She told me to repress my feelings. I left that day and never went back. I felt abused.
Man, the pictures of people I know fitting this bill are flying by. Odd that it wasn’t until I was thrown overboard in my relationship that I started having less tolerance for these folks. 🤔 now it makes SO MUCH SENSE!
I also know some people that have integrity for integrity’s sake. Now if I could just remember where he went 😂
Thank you for enlightening us Doc.
Loretta Nericcio-Bohlman
It really makes a lot of sense...
A hard landing was it?
I lived amongst a group of this type that fed each other's needs and encouraged weird abuses. I'd just suffered a tragedy and would be almost in a fugue state sometimes and people would talk around me as if I didn't hear because sometimes I didn't. They all loathed each other. They spoke worse of their "friends " and support systems than any invading army. I hate to burst bubbles, but they're yoga gurus and fitness instructors every single one. Paragons of the community and sought after role models and they have nothing but contempt for 90% of their students
Don’t disagree at all but let’s recognize how being raised in a “resume” society encourages this.
Goldilocks, Yes, a "resume" society. People lie on their resumes all the time. I once applied for a job and told the owner of the small company that I had zero experience, but wanted to learn - I was young and strong then, but the job title asked for experience. He said, "Let's try you out then, and see how you do." I worked for him for several years and learned a lot from him. He was a kind person, willing to give a person a chance.
@@notagain779 I've never lied, if they don't want me I sure don't want them! Didn't I leave it all behind to be a stay at home mom, 25 yrs and counting, my kids deserve the best, that's me, no way do they get seconds, even though now that they're young adults I only get seconds of their time! Oh well, works for me!
@@notagain779 I finally got a chance to be a server without serving experience … I was honest I have to start somewhere? Lol how do you get experience if you don’t start somewhere. I never got that.
@@joseenoel8093 I agree
Maybe not "BUT let's recognize" but instead "AND let's recognize" - because (as the child of two of these types) I think these things really do go together
Exactly !! BEST accurate way to express THIS entanglement .CURRENCY and being BOUGHT & PAID and OWNED BY THEM .
My new age spiritual leader mother fits this to a tee!
I had shared with my catholic nun friend about the narcissism. I told her that the knowledge of narcissism answering my unresolved questions so far, and I see Dr. Ramani saying thing rightly. I shared with her Dr. Ramani's coping skills with my modification for the situations. It is essential to learn rather than simply love blindly and obey blindly. I asked her to observe and practice these coping skills for the answers.
After all it is not about what good you do but why you do it. To me motivation is the most important thing. That's how I bulid relationships - at home, getting new social contacts and friends or at the workplace. Better do nothing for me and say nothing than acting out of wrong motivation. Honesty is an expensive thing and you can't expect it from cheap people.
Great work, as genuine intentions should reciprocate by those who share in them!
Now could that be a communal something-or-other?
@@yolomcduff6620 Being good and looking good let alone feeling good. Not like a dag narcissist.
It's definitely better to not have an act to follow.
This series is so extensive because not everyone’s situation is the same. Thank you Dr Ramani
I think you have just described most poiticians
Thank you so much for this! I have never understood my mother as deeply as I do now. Struggling with some pretty bad depression on top of persistent depressive disorder. My mother was the ultimate do gooder. But I felt like we had a cold, loveless, professional relationship. Hearing this is so validating. Thank you.
My mother has to be this. She is now a Buddhist nun. My whole life everyone told me how amazing, kind and compassionate she was. In a religion where you are suppose to be letting go of one’s ego lack of empathy can seem very much like that.
9:42
“If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. And if I give all my belongings to feed others, and if I hand over my body so that I may boast, but do not have love, I do not benefit at all.”
1 Corinthians 13:1-3
It’s sad that so many “spiritual” people don’t get it.
Jesus said “So when you make gifts of mercy, do not blow a trumpet ahead of you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, so that they may be glorified by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full.”
Matthew 6:2
What I've noticed with these types, is that if you stay neutral in your assessment of their wonderfulness, they probably will leave you alone. Dodge that bullet while you still can! They need to know you're falling for their self - pats on their own backs before they start thinking they can pull you around by the nose through manipulations to benefit their causes, and help further their reputation as important movers and shakers. If you get pulled in, they'll make sure your efforts go unnoticed and in the background, though. The one I know is now in her 80's, and terrified of not leaving a big enough legacy to herself, or not having crowds at her funeral.
yea funeral thing i see that
What was she like in her 20's?
Things certainly might change knowing when you'll be gone or could it just boost the stakes of narcissistic supply and demand?!
The folly in falling for the 'communal narcissist' I detect can be almost coined with the pitfalls of believing that mandate 'you must respect your seniors'.
Dr Ramani certainly stirs the pot with this series... yet to me it still seems a fair margin between the nature of some people and that of being pathological dysfunction.
Either way it can certainly get to you or claim someone something that you genuinely care for.
@@bertzerker747 , What was she like in her 20's? I can only say that she was divorced three times by the time I knew her. Not to say that means anything, but...I only knew I was done, also.
The worst damage is the fact that the people this type of narcissist abuse won't be helping to fix the world because they whether will become jaded and think all good causes are a sham or they will be to busy healing themselves to actually help out.
Awesome information...
thank you 🙏
My narcissistic partner discarded me ...I am really thankful and hope that he doesn’t come around ever ..
Need to say,you really know these creatures well,one I was with was bits of lot of different parts in one weird thing,I felt evil with my ex like it exuded out of his pores, he or it was. Nice hook, then so nasty confused as heck, I turned out mad, I escaped it needed therapy after and I am an empathy, I am a lie detector so I knew after a while he's a lier to every deep part.
He was a lie, fake and nasty, injoyed hurting me smiling with a evil grin at confusing me. I'm so greatful you are here as this keeps me feeling very validated, no one believed me so I needed you. Thank you. I would have hurt him badly to defend myself first so I left and I'd never ever harm anyone I'm not violent but by God I hit him never ever before never he brought out hate that I never knew I had, I said to him what are you many times, no love no life in him he was soulless, Godless. 🙏
My father, who I cut off 2 years ago DEFINITELY falls under this category. He spent his whole life trying his hardest to be the best of the best in nonprofit organizations in was always first in line to get us signed up for community events. Meanwhile, he was verbally, physically, emotionally, and even sexually abuse at home when no one was watching. Also totally isolated us from all family. It's so confusing growing up when your father is doing all these horrible things and everyone else is validating him constantly and got mad when I didn't like him. A lot of people assumed I was going through an "emo phase" which basically lasted my whole life until I got the tools and resources to set myself free! I'm becoming more and more me every day. Thank you Dr Ramani for everything you do. My mom is still in denial. Your videos help me understand and be able to explain these topics with my friends and family and it's been a life-altering experience.
have had a few of those in my extended family. . . and have faced them outside the family too. . . was never believed by others when I told them what I knew about the communal narcissist. . . my college roommate's adoptive father was a preacher. . . I would constantly find him and my roommate in bed doing weird stuff. . . they'd only kiss and cuddle in front of me but I heard moans and groans when they'd go into the room adjacent to ours. . . and then this preacher started making moves on other students in an all-male school. . . and was banned from the campus for ONE semester. . . and then was back doing the same thing. . . he was a supposedly inspiring leader who adopted kids but then did god knows what to them. . . being a teenager in a foreign country and having been raised by two narcissists I didn't realise how crazy it was to see them two in bed. . . having this creep appear out of nowhere at any given time and just lurking around. . . be very verbally abusive to my roommate. . . bringing other old creeps into the room. . . and vilifying me because I think he knew I saw right through him. . . . he cut off my roommate financially once he was banned from campus and couldn't abuse him anymore.. . . people started asking me why I didn't come forward as if I had some part in it but I was halfway around the world having escaped two narcissists and was just so confused. . . and nobody would have believed me had other students not come forward. . . . absolutely disgusting. . . and I am sure this continues in the name of the father. . . .
So, I feel everything is about intentions. If someone does good things, no matter how good they are, there true intentions negate the good deed.
Matthew 12:35(KJV) - A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
Bahahahahahaha, loser
@@jimmyj4044 Thanks for letting us know you're a loser but nobody asked.
@@dakoderii4221 Love that verse. He talked a lot about watching out for people who pretend to be good but aren't, he couldn't stand hypocrites & knew how to call then out. That's why he said beware of those who potray outward goodness but inside are full of deadmans bones. Wash the inside of the cup first, then the outside. He was way ahead of his time on the narcissist issue, shoot the whole Bible is.
I understand why you believe insincere intentions negate good results. Logically speaking, negative intent would cancel positive result. However, I chose to believe that nothing is wasted. Consider the current political climate, very negative with questionable intentions (regardless of party). People are now more interested, more engaged in the management of our country. That's a good thing (regardless of part).
Would you mind addressing the racist narcissist? Thanks again for another great video!
Racism is a byproduct of narcissism. Narcissists tend to think in “black or white” terms , no gray area.
When looking at slavery , all of the slave owners fall under the cluster B personality type. Anything that can separate the narcissist from the victim is what they will use.
Another contemporary example in American society is the issue of black men being killed by white cops . When you compare this society to the narcissistic family dynamic. The controller that be are the cluster B personality. Whites in society are the “gold child” and blacks are the scapegoat.” Everyone else in society is typically ignored. Basically, you can’t have racism without narcissism. I hope this helps.
@@reboundingfromnarcissistic5386 thank you. This is very insighful!
Mnight your welcome. Notice all these protests going on right now. We are playing right into the cluster B personality hands
I married (and divorced) a covert, communal narc. I won't go into details, but just say, his baby/child and i were in deadly danger, with horrendous behind closed doors attacks, as well as stealing, as well as trying to set me up to be blamed for it. How he's treated every wife, esp 1st (me) and the 2nd (the 3rd and 4th worked him out quickly and got rid of), and our child is some story to tell, while he played the charitable guru around many countries, including motivational speaking tours. So i know this sicko type very well.
I’ve been watching Dr. Ramani for years as I navigate a very toxic relationship. This spiritually woke comment is very eye opening. The holier than thou attitude has permeated every aspect of our relationship. He jokes about starting a commune (cult). At first I was literally bowing to him because he was such an altruistic community focused person. He will talk about all the amazing work (“Gods work”) he does, but can’t wash his dishes or do his own laundry or cook his own meal at home. It’s my responsibility. He treats me like a servant who should be at his will due to his title.
My dad was a pastor & exhibited these same behaviors. I remember as a young child trying so hard to please him, he couldn't care less. He was very emotionally distant at home. Would lock himself in his room away from us. So cold hearted & physically violent toward me. Yet the church members revered him to the fullest.
yuck. Not uncommon (you are not alone) but this is truly _repugnant._ I’m sorry to hear this.
I no longer attend any church for this reason, but do still like Jesus. Here are words from him on the subject:
“The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. _If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!_
Oh, so glad you mentioned the PTA moms. Quite disturbing.
My narcs non-profit is her family and even certain friends. It's very much a savior complex in giving everything for family and using it to gaslight and control. She constantly emotionally abuses her spouse, me (her daughter), and my two brothers. Everything is constantly about the superficial so we were very much drilled on not sharing any "shameful" or authentic events going on to friends, other family members, anyone. She is a nurse now that works for a nonprofit and church, and she only works there for experience because she wasn't able to get a job. She never once chose to work there to help others. She often takes biblical texts out of context to keep me from making my own choices, or to invalidate my own opionions even though I am an adult. I'm wise enough to recognize that she is using these texts out of context, and the spiritual abuse. My mom is a nightmare of a person.
my mother always worked to "help" people, depending on whats on trend. Saving dogs? Teaching poor kids? Suddenly selling herself as a psychologist and creating an autism help group (???) CHECK check check
I'm a magnet for this type of narcissist because I'm poor and disabled with an autistic child and no family support, but I'm well-educated and, before I got sick, was well-connected in social services circles. So my gratitude and admiration is communicated to the kind of people communal narcissists want to impress. I call myself a charity victim of people like this because if they want to give me something or do something for me, I don't dare refuse. And if they do something for my son, they seem to feel they've purchased a controlling interest in his upbringing. I think they really believe they want to be friends with me because we share a lot of the same concern for social justice, but they just fly into a rage if I insist I don't want their help.
This isn't a live therapy session.
Yes, these kinds of N's are very difficult to deal with. You want to believe in them and in the shared cause, which allows you to be blindsided by their vindictiveness and egos. Truly you would be healthier and more effective in making progress for whatever cause is close to your heart without them. Even what they say they believe ALWAYS takes a back seat to their own self-promotion and virtue-signaling.
@@leticiaoberley8886 Precisely. It's a form of benevolent bullying, really.
Jimmy J, newsflash yes it is and isn’t there a rock with your name on it to crawl back under?
Oh my, the little gifts given out of the blue. N sibling (a.k.a. Managerial Molly, Dominating Donna, Bossy Betty) walked over to my desk twice in the past couple of years (works in the same building) to do this after mistreating me. One of those times, she spread out little trinkets on a silky piece of cloth and told me to pick one, then huffed and slunk away when I declined. And I'm at work in a crowded office. In the family of origin, she likes to delegate work to me. Wants to be the emissary, the go-between for others who need stuff and she tries to get me to help. I cut out the middle man and started asking those people directly what they need, and it's mostly nothing at all. She talks to me as if I'm her unpaid employee, also dishing out guilt and talking in code. I'm now down to ignoring all communication because I'm having a bad reaction to even seeing her name.
Her funniest text? "I'd like to let you know that I have no intention of butting into your life."
This was in response to my text:
"It's a difficult time for sure."
Which was in response to her talking about someone in the family who was sick. Crazytown!
Everyone scrambles when you realise what's happened! Stay safe and strong everyone!! 🙂🌹
Many upper middle and upper class white men and women are described perfectly by this.
It's all the centuries of being told they are "chosen" and made in god's image.
"The kindness we have for one person is a measure of the entire universe" ...words of wisdom, Dr. Ramani, words of wisdom.
This is like my awakening. I was gas lighted by a communal narcissist that wanted to use me as a way to combat the his opposition at a church I went to in cali. I thought I was some kind of psych experiment but now I know I was. Thank god I left. That's a shitstorm that would have thrown me over the edge.
This actually brings some clarity to a situation I’m facing right now with a pastor. They don’t fit the regular definitions of Narcissistic, but definitely this type is closer to explaining it.
There’s also this old saying: “house devil, street angel”. Perfectly describes this type of person!
Yes. Thanks Dr Ramani, if a person helps people to look good but abuses their wife and children, how many generations of theirs will suffer? Lots and lots, untold numbers.
Oh man, an old friend of mine once shared with me that her father used to sexually abuse her as a child, and he was highly respected in his community, probably a malignant communal narcissist I assume. When people found out what he was doing to her he apparently committed suicide. My poor friend! She was so confused growing up and suffered such trauma! Thank you Dr. Ramani for sharing all of the information you share! It clarifies so much about our back stories and sorts out so much confusion.
I had a coworker like this. We work at a school for students with disabilities. No one is more dedicated than her. She even has a side hustle as a life coach and claims to channel divine beings. She has a past life connection with a famous person. She would engage in malicious gossip nonstop and would accuse anyone that got on her bad side of being an attention-seeker. She told our supervisor lies about me and then tell me I should be grateful for her “mediation,” which was really triangulation.
I love this series, i'm actually fascinated with this type. 🤓🤓🤓 thank u dr ramani 🤗🤗🤗😍😍😍
Thank you for your wisdom. i am so reassured that I can stand alone and be happy with that as a result of your videos and the shares i read in comments. i am a senior: this easing of the pain has been a long time coming. Bless you and all who share here. I feel so much stronger.
I love you Dr.Ramani! Every word you say makes so much sense to me.
I just saw a trending video on RUclips before this video and realized the parents in question were maybe communal narcissists. I will not name the RUclipsrs, but their story speaks to this type of issue, their journey to do good was more for themselves than the child in question.
are those maybe the parents that adopted a child and then gave it back or something? I didn't watch videos on the topic even though many channels did them neither have I seen their video, so I don't know what exactly happened, but that is what I caught of it
@@Laura-vs6fs Yes, exactly. From what I got from the story, they wanted to adopt a child with a disability that was manageable and profit from showing their honorable helpfulness towards the toodler, but when they realized his complications were worse after I think 2 years or so of having him, they needed to find him another family. What I find sad about this this story is that they needed to adopt a child with "manageable' disabilities as a way of showing how honorable they were, sad for all 5 minors included in that family.
@@sarag.5093 that is horrible. Especially, since there are people out there, who do everything they can for their disabled children, but have to give them away involuntarily, since the children sometimes need more professional help. These people need a reality check big time and I hope they actually learn something from the backlash their getting. As somebody, who may adopt in the future, this is so weird as I see things in a very different manner.
Myka Stauffer and her husband
I know someone from church who helps every week passing out food baskets to families in need. He posts frequently on his volunteerism on FB. But, he is extremely conservative and posts his hatred of "welfare queens" and other "freeloaders". What would these people he helps think of his tirades? He's contemptuous about the very people he helps.
Wow Dr. Ramani, you really hit the nail on the head. I have a story I wish I could tell you that would illustrate this "type" perfectly. I have many but one in particular. I can't tell it here out of fear of repercussions. But just know, it's so validating to hear you acknowledge and name this particular type of narcissism.
THANK YOU DR. RAMANI for reminding me I don’t have to play the “one day I’ll be good enough” game with my narc ex, my grandiose narc dad, and now with what I’m learning is a communal narc mother.
Your firmness around how they rarely ever change is what I NEEDED to put my foot down for my future quality of life. I’m moving on for me. THANK YOU!!!
A painful video for me to watch, and frustrating...because your description of the religious communal narcissists around the 6-minute mark is exactly what I experienced. Every word thunders with truth! Thank you, Doctor. And what was I trying to highlight to my church leaders? That my ex-wife, a teacher at the affiliated school, had turned my children against me after I separated from her and after I decided not to go back to her after she begged me to (parental alienation) and they had endorsed her protection order (that I was an abusive father and abusive husband), they stood by her and totally shunned me...their stone-walling to my emails was one of the most troubling things I've ever endured. I was a member of that church for 12 years and a Sunday School teacher for 4. Miraculously, I have my son back (the severe-no contact-alienation lasted 2 years and 9 months). I plan to write the story (without risking re-alienation).
Communal narcissists also get a lot of support from those who benefit from the "good" things they do. It's a "you scratch my back and I'll scratch yours" kind of philosophy. Then, people are willing to overlook whatever the narcissist does that isn't nice because they want/depend on their help.
This crosses into something I've thought about when have heard about some cultic religious groups. I watched the series on A&E about Scientology (as ne example) and have heard about other groups also. These groups are clearly run by narcissists, but it is even a larger issue than these communal narcissists. The cultish people are controlling large groups at one time and turn people against each other. In fact they seem to try to make the others in the group evil and hostile like them so that many in the group would be fine with harming others.
Yes. When I was recuperating from a bad car wreck 14 years ago, I became fascinated by the $cientology cult... because of the negative impact it had on its followers. And its leaders are indeed narcissistic. All very Jim Jones.
The power through privilege and conformity in group movements. A potent potential to undermine the common senses. If one gets things wrong they might as well all do, however did they ever start in the first place and whose taking the fall?!
Meglomanic elation isn't a fresh breeze but things are usually sealed until the punch line gets delivered.
Dr Ramani spreads her ground with lots of variables, no knives in her back.
To avoid nacisstic injury some claim it to the matters of being mindful when to good advice we must be entirely wary.
I like your response concerning cults, and agree they can be intentionally more harmful by their regard of entitlement with exclusive powers. And if there are options for the member are they negotiable with the terms?
I'm going to keep watching these series...
If you look at L. Ron Hubbard he was the epitome of king narc. These people have no empathy and are completely shameless which is why they can do this stuff. They wait until people are in step 4 or whatever before they lay the zenu story on them. I guess they feel they are good and indoctrinated at that point to lay the science fiction story on them and low and behold it seemed to work. The internet was the beginning of the end for scientology because they couldn't go after everyone speaking out against them and try and destroy all of them like they use to be able to do.
My mother was an upstanding school teacher. Can't count how many times students/former students would stop me to say how lucky I was to have such a wonderful mother. Ha, always wanted to say "you wouldn't say that if you lived with her!". And yep, was seen as the ungrateful/awful daughter.
And yes, people who virtue signal about their concern for people on the other side of the world or the underprivileged often treat their own families and 'loved ones' terribly. It's like their whole value system is totally inverted.
Thank you for this topic. I didn't know there was a 'name' for it, thanks!
Kindness is King. True kindness. Look at how they treat their family and take away all the crap they buy then “trips, dinners, clothing, cars, etc while they abuse then mentally and are cruel along with raging. The mask falls off. And oh boy run if you are around when it does.
My sister-in-law actually pointed out the hypocrisy of my mom when I felt confused about the way in which my mom treated me. My sister-in-law once worked for my mom, who is beyond inspiring, and it wasn't until she saw how my mom favored my sister and treated me that she saw my mom's true colors. She even tried to sort of save me by introducing me to her family and as difficult as it is to say this, I am lucky that her brother was in the process of a failing marriage, because 5 years later, he and I are now married and his support, along with the support of my in-laws, has shown me a sense of normalcy that I hadn't fully seen in life. My husband became my counselor forcing me to open my eyes to the toxicity of my raising. My mother (an apparent Communal), my brother (Covert) and possibly my sister all have narcissistic qualities. However, my sister seems the least severe in that I feel her narcissism is more of a way to cope with and avoid disappointing my mother who has dubbed her the golden child. My invisible/scapegoat role affected me more than the trauma of being abused by my dad.
Good deeds don't cancel out bad deeds. Plain and simple. Same with just bc someone hurt you and you are a victim, doesn't cancel out the fact you did something bad to somebody else and are a perpetrator. There is such a thing as a bigger picture of a person, but we should analyze a situation by itself bc otherwise it can lead to bad judgement.
I agree with you Dr. Ramani, if you are kind you will be kind to everyone without exception...but speak the truth in Love and not compromise your own conscience.
My mom is a communal Narcissist for sure. She is a Religious leader and has that persona of helping the kids of the community.
The fact that I was constantly told how lucky I was to have her, I always felt that was wrong or it was fake.
OMG! I’m addicted, you help me to ground myself. Thank you 🙏
Ha ☺️ I agree. My therapist asked why I continue to watch this material even after I have the gist of the situation. I told her, Dr. Ramani and a couple others are my support system as I strive to make life changes. I’ve lived the lie for so many years, a dose of realism helps me stand tall and looking forward. It’s ok to love myself, take care of my own needs, and make serious life changes.
Right on Vic! 💪🏼💐
This is my covert narcissist mother. She will feed the poor, give other people money, etc, all while sitting back and looking at her children struggle financially.
She also loves working in the children’s ministry at church meanwhile she doesn’t want to be bothered with her own grandkids.
My ex had a communal narcissistic mum. She made him an extension of herself! She uses all the ‘good things’ she has done for people/church including adopting another son to ‘replace him’ (her words to him). She is exactly the way Dr Ramani talks about in this video - she would gossip and triangulate and her words are neither nice nor helpful but always put downs and gossip (this did not seem Christian like in my mind because I have no belonged to a church that had Christians of this sort)
She needs to take credit for stuff we normal people do for church because we are serving God and loves people and the church nothing else. They go to those churches that actually do give them ‘credit’ so they keep feeding off that. He then got into it and was doing live church online for them and feeding off the 8-10 old ladies that would come up after the service to say ‘thank you’.
It does not sit well with me - it says in the Bible “But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,”
Matthew 6:3 NKJV
When we serve in church we do not want recognition, in fact I am glad I belong to a huge church we will never finish thanking everyone in the platform if we have to thank every volunteer - car park, meet and greet, ushers, musicians, stage and tech crew, TV, interpretation, kids ministry etc you name it we all do it because it is part of serving and building the house of God.
Don’t even get me started on the fact that they do these acts to get recognition and when I ask why they do not tithe he said ‘using his time to do this is his way of tithing’ at the time I had no idea and he always had a good way of convincing me but now I realize - no one knows about his grandiose gesture of tithing but doing these platform things and getting pointed out for it feeds them.
Most of us don’t care who knows what we do on Sunday and we would still tithe even if we earn very little there is still always 10% from whatever it is that we earn.
He told me he can never see himself at a church like mine and I can see why because our church is so big and we have better musicians, technology hence if he did anything he won’t feel seen - does not feed his narcissistic supply. Also I was at first puzzled why he is always spending time with cancer and broken people and when he comes to my church group gathering he would yell at me in the car of ‘why we are going to the beach’ etc etc (when he knew perfectly well we are going but was able to someone make it my fault for ‘tricking’ him into it) and would spend the whole day not socializing or interacting with my healthy friends. Or another time he would complain that the whole group was Asian (no one even spoke in another other language but English and most only knew English because they were born here) and he felt out of place when everyone was so nice and welcoming and no one was rude to him.
I guess they just can not participate in a healthy people gathering. 🤷🏻♀️
Something that occurred to me that I thought it was strange back then and now totally makes sense. He is constantly asking for recognition and did a charity fund raising and when he did not get as much money he wanted (to be fair I donated twice to get him over the line!) he blamed me for it. He reckons my post on his fb that said ‘we are not captivated by comparison because we are cultivated by purposes’ is what made people NOT DONATE.
Yes, everything that fails in his life is somehow MY fault. I am the ‘family’ that suffers, everyone else is more important and he missed the final inspection of the rental property because he had to ‘finish off’ the projector project at church - no he could not take a couple of hours out to do what he said he would do because my thing would get him no recognition but the church project means all of the 20 people that attends that service can thank and know he did it for ‘them’ (really for his ego).