If you have SAFE, I think you can set it to SAFE and full bank. So the plane circles. This must be the best setup for failsafe. I would like to know if it’s possible to do the same with FrSky gyro receivers.
@@michelpetrus It is. I do something very similar with my FrSky stabilized receivers. I turn on self-leveling mode, cut the throttle and add left rudder. I have simulated it while flying and it works very well.
Good video. Thanks. I would add that with a powered model, it is especially important to make sure that failsafe puts the throttle setting to -100%; some failsafe has all values defaulted to 0%, which is half throttle, which is a very dangerous setting.
In the '90, there was an International concern about failsafe, and an investigation was made at that time by some F3A federations after the dead of a kid playing football in a nearby field. The result was that the only safe method was to put the plane in a flat spin and shooting down the engine. You can maybe consider this method also.
Unfortunately most thermal gliders (especially DLGs) are very difficult to spin, but the models can be very slow. I think method B would be safest for pedestrians.
I got my failsave set in full flap and airlons centred. Try it one at a height of about 120 meters. Model goes first in straight down at angle of 20 degrees but due to influence of wind the model goes also turn downwards. For me the advantage is that you clearly see that the model goes failsafe without hearing the warning of the transmitter.
I'm new at the glider hobby. I agree with the fellow above. Why not have a small GPS module, like the drones, which will return the model to "home" in the event of a link failure. Just remember to duck! Ha ha ha.
There are a few reasons GPS isn't the answer for DLGs that I can think of... - Weight. The extra weight of the GPS module (15 grams or so) plus any extra electronics with the smarts to return home is significant for a DLG and can change it's thermal performance/behavior. Most models are designed to have minimal weight up front. If you add a GPS receiver, you might need to add tail weight to compensate which would negatively affect launch behavior (extra weight at the extremities). - Available space in DLGs is usually very tight with just 4 servos, receiver, and battery. Finding anywhere where GPS (and possibly addition electronics) would fit is usually not workable for most DLG models... especially making sure the antenna is pointed up and you would need to make sure no carbon of the fuse is obstructing it. - If you are into DLG competitions (F3K), the rules don't allow leveling tech to be in the model. The whole idea of DLG is to not have any electronic leveling or assist and depend on the pilots skills finding and staying in thermals... and avoiding sink :). I wonder how return home without a motor would work... especially if you need to catch a thermal to get it back onto the field.
I have a question, if you loose your esc mid air, killing power to everything, fail safe does nothing correct? I'm trying to determine if it was purely luck, or if failsafe kicked in just as the esc burnt up. Regardless, the powered glider in which this happened to me with pulled up on its own, and seemingly put itself into a turn which I believe happened because of failsafe. I happened to have a camera on the plane when it died, so I have a recording of the entire thing and kindof know the full story, I think failsafe indeed saved it, but Im just not sure. All I know for certain is the plane was completely dead in the air, the motor brake on the folding prop power system never cut in to stop the prop since the esc died while the motor was running, and it was only clear that the system still had some form of power after it had landed, once all the wind noise was gone from the video, and you could hear the servos trying to initate, then cutting out, then trying again, then cutting out again, seemingly doing something similar to boot looping.
Wondering how do you test failsafe settings in flight? The most obvious seems to be turning a radio on and off, but maybe there are some "safer" methods?
Some systems are easier than others. On FrSky I put the settings on a switch and adjusted it until I got what I want, and then set that into the actual failsafe.
... what about programming such a "Failsafe" like the freeflyers with their DT do ? If it's possible, the aeroplane would sink down safely without drifting too much, wouldn't it ?
I like the Tahmazo one, been using it for many years. It gives you the digital readout and you can test/cycle two at a time. I’m not sure if they still make it or not though.
Crossfire isn't really suitable for DLGs due to size, but Tracer is definitely gaining users. There are still a few things that need to be included in Tracer to gain wider usage by the sailplane community but it's an awesome system. I have the Tracer as well although I haven't put it in my gliders yet.
@@ArmSoar do you think the crossfire antennas are too big? because the actual recievers are exactly the same size i would hope they make their own 8ch pwm adapter, because the workaround with a sbus to pwm converter likely isn't ideal
@@marc_frank IIRC the antennas were too big / long to fit in a DLG fuselage and the F5J fuselages I had on hand. Yeah hopefully we will see some more adapter choices. Would be great to have on-board vario as well that can be displayed on the TX for launch practice.
My Archer R4 is giving me low and critical warnings at ranges ~100m. Canopy is fibreglass… seem strange? Good motivation to get my failsafe sorted though lol
@@mcwhinnie84 there’s definitely an issue there. Check antenna connectors and antenna installation to make sure there’s no/minimal shielding. Do a detailed range test with the plane at different angles to make sure it’s okay. Worst case scenario, send it to FrSky to check/repair. Their office in California is doing a good job taking care of these issues now.
I can't believe there is still no fail safe mode even in high end $1500-3000 RC systems when your $2000 glider flies back to you and lands. Those under $1000 DJI drones had this feature for ages.
Not really a feature we are looking for. That adds bulk and weight, GPS does not work in carbon glider fuselages without external antennas (more drag), and competition models cannot have anything on board that can move control surfaces without pilot input.
How do you setup your failsafe?
Idk
If you have SAFE, I think you can set it to SAFE and full bank. So the plane circles.
This must be the best setup for failsafe.
I would like to know if it’s possible to do the same with FrSky gyro receivers.
@@michelpetrus It is. I do something very similar with my FrSky stabilized receivers. I turn on self-leveling mode, cut the throttle and add left rudder. I have simulated it while flying and it works very well.
SAFE mode with a bank angle of 20-25 degrees..
This is an example of how good a RUclips channel should be! Keep it up. I only knew about the second method. Very informative
Thank you for such kind words!
If you don't have flaps, you should use the old school method of full up elevator and full rudder. It will flat spin down at a fairly safe pace.
Good video. Thanks. I would add that with a powered model, it is especially important to make sure that failsafe puts the throttle setting to -100%; some failsafe has all values defaulted to 0%, which is half throttle, which is a very dangerous setting.
Very good advice!
Well spoken, clear precise.
I'm a veteran electric flyer just saw DLGs yesterday. Now interested 😮
DLGs are addicting!!!
Great job Thomas, and very professional as well. In al my years I have never used fail safe (by some reason), but I'm planning on testing it, for sure
I didn’t use it for many years too… wish I did! 🤣
Well said Thomas. I agree with every point.
Thank you!
I think your videos are good and full of facts even though I don’t own any gliders:)
You need a glider in your life!
@@ArmSoar I don’t know how to fly them tho
@@axwoodyt Just make one and learn :)
In the '90, there was an International concern about failsafe, and an investigation was made at that time by some F3A federations after the dead of a kid playing football in a nearby field. The result was that the only safe method was to put the plane in a flat spin and shooting down the engine. You can maybe consider this method also.
Unfortunately most thermal gliders (especially DLGs) are very difficult to spin, but the models can be very slow. I think method B would be safest for pedestrians.
I got my failsave set in full flap and airlons centred. Try it one at a height of about 120 meters. Model goes first in straight down at angle of 20 degrees but due to influence of wind the model goes also turn downwards. For me the advantage is that you clearly see that the model goes failsafe without hearing the warning of the transmitter.
Really interesting, thank you!
You're welcome!
Great vids and Tips! Thank you. Abo done :)
I'm new at the glider hobby. I agree with the fellow above. Why not have a small GPS
module, like the drones, which will return the model to "home" in the event of a link failure.
Just remember to duck! Ha ha ha.
There are a few reasons GPS isn't the answer for DLGs that I can think of...
- Weight. The extra weight of the GPS module (15 grams or so) plus any extra electronics with the smarts to return home is significant for a DLG and can change it's thermal performance/behavior. Most models are designed to have minimal weight up front. If you add a GPS receiver, you might need to add tail weight to compensate which would negatively affect launch behavior (extra weight at the extremities).
- Available space in DLGs is usually very tight with just 4 servos, receiver, and battery. Finding anywhere where GPS (and possibly addition electronics) would fit is usually not workable for most DLG models... especially making sure the antenna is pointed up and you would need to make sure no carbon of the fuse is obstructing it.
- If you are into DLG competitions (F3K), the rules don't allow leveling tech to be in the model. The whole idea of DLG is to not have any electronic leveling or assist and depend on the pilots skills finding and staying in thermals... and avoiding sink :).
I wonder how return home without a motor would work... especially if you need to catch a thermal to get it back onto the field.
Thanks - I believe I'll stay on 35 MHz for now!
... me too, 'cause I get one working now for decades ... 😁
I have a question, if you loose your esc mid air, killing power to everything, fail safe does nothing correct? I'm trying to determine if it was purely luck, or if failsafe kicked in just as the esc burnt up. Regardless, the powered glider in which this happened to me with pulled up on its own, and seemingly put itself into a turn which I believe happened because of failsafe. I happened to have a camera on the plane when it died, so I have a recording of the entire thing and kindof know the full story, I think failsafe indeed saved it, but Im just not sure. All I know for certain is the plane was completely dead in the air, the motor brake on the folding prop power system never cut in to stop the prop since the esc died while the motor was running, and it was only clear that the system still had some form of power after it had landed, once all the wind noise was gone from the video, and you could hear the servos trying to initate, then cutting out, then trying again, then cutting out again, seemingly doing something similar to boot looping.
Idea one: never ever fly near traffic.
Idea two: are there any camera or GPS assisted failsafes?
The goal is to fly as safely as possible. There are no camera or GPS systems suitable for competition sailplanes.
@@ArmSoar Good thing that I'm not interested in flying competition. But I do think, if a DJI mini 3 can pull it off, a 3m plane could, too.
Wondering how do you test failsafe settings in flight? The most obvious seems to be turning a radio on and off, but maybe there are some "safer" methods?
Some systems are easier than others. On FrSky I put the settings on a switch and adjusted it until I got what I want, and then set that into the actual failsafe.
@@ArmSoar oh, nice! Thanks for the idea)
@@geneschastnyy3981 let us know after you try it!
@@ArmSoar Sure!
... what about programming such a "Failsafe" like the freeflyers with their DT do ?
If it's possible, the aeroplane would sink down safely without drifting too much, wouldn't it ?
The wing loading is too high, so it’ll come down quite hot and will very likely damage something.
What is the recommendation for aileron only gliders, no rudder?
Hi Mangiari, full flaps, slight left aileron, and adjust elevator to give it a steady turn/spiral.
What servo tester/ programmer do you recommend?
I like the Tahmazo one, been using it for many years. It gives you the digital readout and you can test/cycle two at a time. I’m not sure if they still make it or not though.
@@ArmSoar do you know of anywhere that sells it?
@@ethanjackson880 just did a quick Google search and I don’t see anyone carrying it… sorry!
@@ArmSoar bummer
@@ethanjackson880 there are a few nice looking ones from guys like ToolKitRC, but IIRC they seemed quite a bit bulkier than my Tahmazo.
or use tbs crossfire / tracer
Crossfire isn't really suitable for DLGs due to size, but Tracer is definitely gaining users. There are still a few things that need to be included in Tracer to gain wider usage by the sailplane community but it's an awesome system. I have the Tracer as well although I haven't put it in my gliders yet.
@@ArmSoar do you think the crossfire antennas are too big? because the actual recievers are exactly the same size
i would hope they make their own 8ch pwm adapter, because the workaround with a sbus to pwm converter likely isn't ideal
@@marc_frank IIRC the antennas were too big / long to fit in a DLG fuselage and the F5J fuselages I had on hand. Yeah hopefully we will see some more adapter choices. Would be great to have on-board vario as well that can be displayed on the TX for launch practice.
My Archer R4 is giving me low and critical warnings at ranges ~100m. Canopy is fibreglass… seem strange? Good motivation to get my failsafe sorted though lol
@@mcwhinnie84 there’s definitely an issue there. Check antenna connectors and antenna installation to make sure there’s no/minimal shielding. Do a detailed range test with the plane at different angles to make sure it’s okay. Worst case scenario, send it to FrSky to check/repair. Their office in California is doing a good job taking care of these issues now.
Ooooooooo yeeeeeeee 🤘
I can't believe there is still no fail safe mode even in high end $1500-3000 RC systems when your $2000 glider flies back to you and lands. Those under $1000 DJI drones had this feature for ages.
Not really a feature we are looking for. That adds bulk and weight, GPS does not work in carbon glider fuselages without external antennas (more drag), and competition models cannot have anything on board that can move control surfaces without pilot input.
How about using a servo to dynamically shift ballast as desired? Failsafe goes tail heavy?
Hi there, what if you have no rudder? I have a Hotliner with motor, ailerons and elevator. What's the usual options here?
Line of sight - It’s the law..
These are all LOS models.
Full throttle down elevator.😂
I thought elevator up and back off throttle.