So true. They do things for you so you are dependent on them. They do everything they can to make sure you can't leave them. They try to keep you financially and physically incapable of leaving. But to outsiders it looks like the narcissistic person is the best person ever.
A tell tale sign is when everyone is coming at you telling you what a great person the altruistic narc is and how you should be more grateful when at home you grovel for crumbs of affection or attention.
This is why I’m leaving everyone behind as soon as possible. There’s no way anyone is going to believe a black single mother is anything but genuinely altruistic towards her only child.
I'm in a wheelchair, and get this a lot. He seems amazing to others. But just today, I was stuck in bed till 12:45. I made the mistake of complaining when I was woken abruptly in the morning, so guess that was my punishment. No one sees that. But in public, he's the fawning, perfect husband, and I literally don't have 1 person I can say these things to that would believe them.
They LOVE to take in family members that are down on their luck, so that other people will talk about how altruistic they are 🙄 Then they gaslight them and make them dependent on them so that they can control them, all the while talking about how they have saved them.
Yes! And there is a religous version to families like that, one where prayer requests are sent to an entire community for "so and so to recover from drug problems, porn addictions, etc." At one church they did this to a fourteen year old girl: they just BROADCAST her vulnerabilities to an entire congregation. Gaslighting to the max.
I am 35 and living at my NPD grandparents for 5 years now and until recently I had no idea why. One day at night at summer, I went out to the balcony and the neighbor old spouse was out there. And I was like... wow that warmth. They did not talk, did not hug, nothing, I just felt that and how that was missing in our "home".
@@Thysta I get caresses from The Most High by way of the sun and the night sky and the air I breathe and the green grass under my feet... that's beats a blank (as my Mom used to say)
@@inksosadstonewell4831 I guess every bad experience can be a lesson. "The bad things that happen to me, I somehow make them good. That means you can't do anything to hurt me.” - 50 Cent
You can be sure that anytime a narcissist does something for someone, it's the narcissist that will benefit and not the recipient of the narcissist's largesse.
Not necessarily true. Mine just wants his reputation to " shine" above others. He will sacrifice, and almost martyr himself to " care" for others. He only cares for others, to his own detriment, in many cases. Figuring this out was SO ,SO ,SO, Confusing !!
I have seriously considered writing a book about the hell adopted kids can and do endure. My sister was the Golden Child but no one has ad contact with her in over a decade. Smart choice. I'm doing the grey rock thing. The scapegoat . I'm to the point of cutting ties with what's left of an extremely dysfunctional and abusive family. No one seems very interested in contact for decades except the mal narc now an elderly pathetic gargoyle who works at being willfully ignorant and instigating liar and fraud. This is an extremely condensed headline. Plus it's amazing how much of one's self has to be kept hid for my own sanity and ssafey
Sounds like Myka Stauffer, a women who purposefully set out to adopt a disabled Chinese boy only for RUclips views who within a couple years gave him to another family within her state because he was "too hard". She made an "explanation" video where she shed no tears. There are many videos examining her body language in her "explanation"/ "apology" video. If you haven't heard of her, wew, you're in for a deep dive of a true Narc.
OMG, this makes so much sense - an ex-friend of mine, who I just realised last year is narcissist (hence the 'ex'!), adopted a kid...I'm so heart-broken knowing what I do now, that that beautiful child is just going to be used as an extension of their adoptive mother's broken ego :-(
My narcissistic mother set me up so that she could 'swoop in' and comfort me. She kept me from people who were good to me, and forced / coerced / manipulated / brainwashed me into being with people who treated me poorly. My guess for her reasons are: (1) other people treating me abusively justified in her mind her treating me in the same way, and (2) whenever my heart was broken / I was disappointed, she could sit with me and say, "There, there. Relationships are hard, aren't they?" taking secret delight in my suffering, so that she could feel like she was helping or saving me, when in reality, she wanted me to be mistreated.
We must have the same mom! Don't forget the phrases 'I know you're So Sensitive 'Honey'',& 'I think you just love Drama' (calling a seizure or medical episode Drama). There are more phrases, but those are the ones came to mind. I hope you're Safe, & able to protect yourself. I've been praying for Decades to get Help(love, honestly) for All of us, so I hope it's working ❤️
I have met many people with this type of narcissism and it’s exhausting. The gifts they would give were always over the top and excessive. I felt like I had to reciprocate or keep up even though I didn’t want to. It seemed phony and manipulative. One family member would give my kids a lot of money for their birthday or graduation (more than I did) to show off how rich she was. Every time she would then say to them, “you better take care of me when I’m old and alone”. It made me angry that she was trying to control them and that there was an agenda for her gift giving. You don’t GIVE to expect to RECEIVE!
The victims of altruistic narcisists feel that the help is not coming straight from the heart but is a product of manipulation and hidden agenda and the process of giving in such cases is deeply humiliating and degrading as the receipients are being objectified, exploited and abused. Thank you Jay.
That’s my mother. The length she is ready to go really far to “selflessly “ helps others is amazing! Unfortunately, when it comes to her own kids, we were neglected and abused. But everyone just believes that we are ungrateful people.
When I was in therapy, my mom raged at me after I simply asked her to leave the session so that I can be more comfortable. She was absolutely okay Infront of the counselor but the moment we came home, it was hell.
I remember, as a child, when my family would attend an event. During the event, things were fine; all seeming to have a good time. As soon as we got in the car to leave, Hyde came out, and the family turned into something altogether different. I couldn't explain it, but it seemed, as a child, surreal.
My mom didn't rage at me. But she took it out on me in other ways, for the same reason. She tried to get me diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, while I was in inpatient care for the first time. My care team educated me about NPD and warned me about my mother. They didn't want me to think they were diagnosing her, because they weren't, but they asked me if these things resonated with my home life. It was so validating.
It was always in my mind why my mother came with me when I went to see a therapist. She has BPD. I had that gut feeling she was there to make sure I don't expose nothing out of the family terror horror dysfunction.
You wanted to feel comfortable while your mom felt a loss of power and control. For her it was a narcissistic injury and you were punished for causing that coming home. One can easily and unknowingly hurt a narc while doing what's best for yourself, hence it's never going to get better. Even the fact she stayed calm in front of the councelor is telling. Nothing wrong with the narc. The mask never drops in public.
There is a tremendous amount of emotional payback due from this kind of "care". You will never really get to the end of actually paying it back, no matter how much you give or do.
"The caring only happens when theirs a show to give." Sounds like every PTA Mom at my kids school. They do everything for their kids, host parties, do elaborate projects. But when they are home, they ignore the child. (I lived next door to a PTA mom like this. )
Sadly I was adopted by an altruistic covert narc mother and ended up with a covert altruistic narc bf.the care they give is a tactic to make u codependent.its better to be independent.im slowly healing.
The part about having to repetitively nonexhaustively continually uplift and speak on the greatness and excessive kindness of the narcissist to all around while experiencing that reality in a rather alternative way is EXACTLY my own experience
This answers so many questions for me. The primary narcissist in my life tics all of these boxes. This type of narcissism can be very confusing, as they 'appear' empathetic because of what they DO, but their presence does 'NOT FEEL' empathetic, because, of course, they don't genuinely feel empathetic.
They only help because they want an appraisal, but they hide their true selves from others. I'm leary of those always being too kind, not that I like being around rude people, but too much kindness is not natural
I feel the same... My father ticks all of these boxes too. It also explains why only long term partners, or grown up children, feel awkward or bad. Short term or adult accointainces do not see him as mean or narcissistic, they only witness the grandiosly empathic generous caring show-off 🙄
It felt like you were telling my childhood Christmas story. Every year. Every present. Every reaction monitored and critiqued. I never wanted presents from this person again. But I did learn how not to treat my own kids.
I grew to hate getting gifts and still hate getting acknowledged on my birthday. There were always, always, always strings attached, usually along the lines of "I bought you a nice gift, now you are obligated to put up with my abuse."
After a particularly difficult depressive episode I had to move in with my parents. After a year of nothing but therapy, and when I was beginning to get my legs under me, in the midst of a fight my mother screamed in my face, "I did this for you.I fixed you. It was me. I'm the one that fixed you."
I was always sick as a child. I visited the emergency room weekly. I remember my mother always was giving me a pill when I was overwhelmed after her mistreatment to me. I believe those times I was overwhelmed I was having panic attacks. She received so much attention from others for having to take care of a sick child. Now that I'm a adult I'm rarely sick. Im the healthiest person I know. I know without evidence that she was doing things to me that caused me to show symptoms of being sick. I have never trusted her not even as a child but I was trained not to say anything.
I began having panic attacks at age 6 because of this. Never knew what they were until they immediately stopped once I married and left home. Took me years, but now I know.
There is a sub type of narcissistic disorder or additional comorbidity disorder which is called munhausen syndrome. It's very dangerous becase a parent like that can actually end up killing the child.
What a nightmare! My mother was similar. She looooved when her kids were sick n suffering. That was the only time I saw her light up and genuinely smile. She did things to sabotage my happiness n health. She totally destroyed my self esteem and self worth. She wanted a captive not a daughter. I think I’ll let her die alone.
Yes it's exhausting, telling them how great they are, when what's expected of you, is to be some kind of threat. Everything they give you is thrown up in your face, constantly you are reminded of what they gave you over the years. They ignore what you gave them. It's like they don't give with a good heart, or like they really mean it.
When you got to Sign 4 (taking on "lost cause" friends as projects to improve them)... hooo boy, do I have someone for you! My mother is the queen of this. She will climb over you to find a socially "inferior" person to make over in her image. She loves taking "uncultured" people to the opera and then lecturing them on how to appreciate it. Or going into people's homes and redecorating for them on the spur of the moment, even though nobody asked for that. She even took up with a coworker to teach the woman how to "speak better" and MADE A SET OF FLASHCARDS so the woman could practice her pronunciation! Needless to say, all of these interactions end the same way: the person gets fed up with being condescended to and exits the relationship. Then my mother gets all self-righteous and bent out of shape because "look at all I did for them!" and they are showing insufficient gratitude. She is an entire mess.
Yes! My father was the most popular, the kindest, and softest, most resourceful and understanding, supporting teacher in town. It was all about image! My siblings and I had to be kind and submissive, even to strangers, we had to curtsy - in the eighties! At home he was a different animal! He beat us up, then dictated a story for the doc ... And finally we had to kiss him good night! Constant double binds, gaslighting and punishment. It even changed my pain threshold. A life in fog, frost, duty-empathy and inability to identify evil. For most of my life I was surrounded by narcissists. But luckily now I know. I can detect them! I see their insatiable greed for all and ever. I can hear them waiting for their triumphantly "Schadenfreude". If possible, I avoid them. Every now and then I let one talk - it's like a puzzle - smile and just turn away...
I am so thankful I found you Dr. Reid. I’m 59 and finally really taking a hard look at my experience growing up the scapegoat in my family of origin. My mother ignored me my entire life and still does. I went no contact recently for 5 years and thought I got healthy... so my sister the flying monkey reached out and convinced me to give our mother another chance to be a “family”. What a mistake. One year later I’m back to my feelings of anger, fear, rejection. My mother is now holding her Trust as a tool for manipulation. I’m trying to detach again and create boundaries again. She is 87 and still manipulating as ever. Her tool was and is the silent treatment toward me. I will continue to watch your videos. Thank you. Joanne C.
Respectfully, It was not a "mistake." You thought you were healed, and obviously you weren't. I don't know what you have to learn, but it is still there for you. I have suffered significantly in life, and at the time it was easy to write things off as a "mistake," but there was so much to learn. Don't let perfectly good suffering go to waste!
Joanne -- what an awful experience. I could be your stand-in, I swear. Same exact situation. Doesn't surprise me at all that the nuke in your mother's arsenal is money. Hopefully you won't need it. But if you do or will (and who wouldn't?), that sucks too. For what it's worth, I remind myself that it very well may happen and work with my financial advisor to prepare for it. I plan to keep watching Jay's videos (and I'm taking the course right now too). There's hope, if only that there's at least one other person on the planet who knows EXACTLY what you're talking about and has lived it too. There IS hope. I refuse to let her win. Because I am the stronger one. And so are you.
My mother & brother, the flying monkey, conspired to steal my inheritance from me. I was so stupid to think my brother wouldn’t betray me . He’s done it before and I never learn. Now I will never, ever have contact w either of them again. Get back to no contact. Rip that bandaid off.
I went back to my dad last year and, like your situation, I was only there for a year (not even a full year). He promised to let me stay so I can go to school and save money to get my own place. It was absolute hell! I finally left over the weekend and it was awful. Friends witnessed his true nature and it was a full on rage. I don't consider it a mistake at all. It gave me the final push to completely cut him out, move to NYC like I always wanted to. I never thought I could and never would've gotten his support for. I don't care about his opinions anymore. He is miserable and hateful. This is not what I want in my life. I'll always remember the things he said to me that last day. He has said many awful things to me growing up, including "I fu**ing hate you" and I'll never forget it. I don't believe his opinions of me. I know they are not true. He wants me to feel bad about myself to manipulate me. That's not love and I deserve love. So do you. Get therapy, set boundaries, and educate yourself on red flags and find new people to be with.
So spot on very hard to detect it takes a long time to see this high level of manipulation. It is really sickening they feed off your traumas and pain. Sick
@Have Issues I do understand those with npd and those who are in relationships with them. I agree BOTH need help with the trauma associated with what caused those who have it and those who suffer abuse from those who have it. It's a vicious cycle in which there are many victims on both sides.
They make you say thank you all the time even for small things, they demand it. They expect to be hugged all the time. They also think if you don't phone or visit them often, you are considered ungreatful.
Yeap totally. I never attend parties, weddings or christening and 100% always down to job commitment but send gifts cards money and never get a thank you
Oh my goodness. I can relate to this. If I did not say thank you for each and every little thing, I would catch it. Also, this family member (sister) deliberately never got married, said she intended to remain single, never allowed herself to date a man who could conceivably ever want commitment. Yet, when she became old and still had no one in her life, she expected me and her friends to take on a lot of the emotional support she might have gotten from a partner and spend a lot of time with her and "soothe her when the winds of life battered the ship", as I often thought of it. She guilt tripped me if I didn't do as much as she expected. She claimed she "felt responsible for me" and I never told her she was responsible for me. I just wanted a normal relationship and I think now she was saying that to keep me around and have a chance to exert some form of control. She even wanted me to get rid of my own partner and would urge me over and over to do so. I would just ignore it. In recent years it got really bad. I have had to go to a psychologist recently because of this and much more.
I’ve never heard it explained like this. Wow. So healing and validating. I was adopted by a narcissistic mom and codependent dad and was groomed to be thankful despite the violence and terror. They had everyone fooled.
I was told that I had a good upbringing...because we Kept Up Appearances...we had food, we had clothes, we were involved in the church and community. We were in sports, clubs and activities. We all had jobs and went on dates as high schoolers. We had a good life on paper. But we were all emotionally crippled. I dare say even the Golden Child is, even though he has what appears to be "the ideal life."
Mine thought he was the mayor of our block. Always helping others and getting involved to feed his ego. Behind closed doors he was a monster. He could change personalities from evil to mr. nice guy in a flash. He was nauseatingly phony. On the road, he chased drivers down if they ran a stop sign and tried to provoke fights. He once chased a women to her home with my young sons in the car. I’m so thankful he is on to his next supply. I threw him out which was such a blow ego and I never missed him for 1 second. He abused my child and that is an unforgivable sin.
When you mentioned about the narcissist feeling more comfortable around "lost causes", I really wanted to hear more about that. You were spot on in this video...but if you could expand on the narcissist's draw to the lost causes, especially in the midst of their "altruism" it would really be helpful. Great video! Thank you
In my experience they prefer to be around people they can feel better than or superior to in some way. They are not comfortable with anyone who may be their competition or cause them to feel insecure or ashamed in anyway. This opens the door for them to prefer to be around people who are struggling in some way shape or form because they can tell themselves “see I’m not as pathetic as them”.
My ex used to tell me I was most beautiful to him when I was broken, sad, crying or angry. When I found that out I made sure to not share those emotions with him any more. We often feel compelled to take the role of if you can’t beat em join em- I sure did and desecrated my soul in the process.
@Have Issues i know how you feel! We all have the potentials and can be more N at some times more than at Others, and some have more N more often than other people. Some are pure N, which is sad since its such an insecure inner self. Trying to improve yourself is excellent! Not blaming others is part of being able yo do that, i feel. But also, narcissistic tendebcies dont appear out of a vacuum. Youre battling something that made u this way too. As am i (lots of narc & narc abuse inmy family & the people ive been drawn to as an adult ). It can make a person retreat into self absorption. It can be enabled. Asu cultivate real empathy, you will see kindness come more easily, more automatically. Keep the faith 🙂
Two narcissists in my family work in health care. One is a hospital pharmacist and the other is a dentist. They can act like they are the most caring people ever
I really like how you mention the scapegoats always get treated less than others. "Whats the point" is a familiar low feeling i got from not just close ones but others in general society! The ONLY way they want me around is to take advantage of me and make me feel drained by their energy vampire tactic. I hated this feeling, it was very common and agitating and hurtful.
This is SO my husband. He’s always making me meals, coffee or tea in the morning, plumping and propping up my pillows and blankets and never letting me get up to do things for my dogs or myself. He says he’s the best husband ever. The only thing is that he loads my food and drinks up with a ton of fats, sugars and salt. Not so it tastes bad, but so my blood pressure sky rockets, my arteries get clogged and I get fat and lazy. He would seem like a dream but he’s a psycho and I’m always walking on eggshells. I never know when he’s going to flip out and turn into Dr Jeckyl. He’s the same way about gifts. Christmases are always loaded with expensive gifts, but as soon as Christmas is over, he becomes mean and nasty. He’s a complete rager and causes me so much anxiety and stress. I’m in a constant state of high adrenaline. Ugh, I know, I need to leave. Not so easy.
Re Christmas, my x used to whine and bitch about Christmas coming, and then beat me up verbally after Christmas for all that I owed him that he did. Also a rager. POS.
Make sure you look after you adrenals. And drink fresh lemon juice in water. Look at Dr Eric Berg on yt for health. All short clips, and there isn't anything he doesn't cover or know. All the best!
As someone who recently realized theyre narcissistic, I find it comforting to watch videos like this because it helps me understand myself better. I wish there were more videos about how to COPE with oneself once they realize they’re a narcissist. I think the only genuine way I can “care” or “protect” others is by helping them spot the other narcissists in their lives (assuming they don’t know and are looking for help with figuring out that particular person) I’m saving up for therapy.
Look to lee hammock on youtube.. he is a diagnosed narc who has set out to help others to spot the signs and to get other narcs into therapy. He is in therapy for 4 years, he calls himself a self aware narc.. rare but do-able if you really want it, truly want it.. a few rare narcs truly want to work on themselves..
@WhammyWhammy yes I have. Some of his videos are good. Some are just too abstract and cerebral. It comes off as a performance which isn’t always appealing and strays from clearly delivering the message.
@The Wheat & Taresit took many psychedelic drug sessions to get to this point. I believe there’s some truth to my observations. I’m not hung up on labels, but the patterns are there. And my childhood had all the traumatic things occur in it that would create a narcissistic sociopath (anti social personality spectrum).
Great stuff bro. Please for God sake get these messages out to everyone. People having their lives destroyed and don't realize what is going on. It is not their fault. Every Dr. Needs to get this message out. Fast!
My moms caretaking came with the implication that i was incompetent and incapable of caring for myself. Also implied that I was needy, pitiful, and a beggar. There were also tones of "i know what you need better than you do." And the "things i needed" were always superficial and didnt reflect my personality at all, but i was supposed to attach great depth and meaning to them by filling in the blanks. My mom feeds unheathy foods to people and buys expensive presents as a way to manipulate their opinions of her. It was just her special way of projecting toxic shame. It all became so absurd and nonsensical when i started refusing presents for me and my children. It resulted in my mom throwing endless tantrums. She really believed that she had the right to give presents to me whether i wanted them or not. Its obvious that it wasnt ever about me or my happiness or showing love. It was always a manipulation and the pressure was put on me to reflect back that she was loving and kind. I didnt feel loved but i was expected to pretend. To this day, i cannot accept presents from anyone without being deeply triggered into feelings of worthlessness and shame and emotional deprivation.
My struggle right now is getting past the mindset of "I don't deserve to be given to". I've learned so much about NPD, my childhood trauma, and then making the connection from a spiritual pov with my true self. I've finally, after leaving my ex a little over a year ago, accepted a lot of what's caused me so much turmoil inside of my head....and yet I can't seem to accept that I am deserving of what I desire in my life... Even though I know I am, I find myself always running back to my trauma response of introversion and feeling as though I have to deal with the matter alone because I'll end up in this scenario regardless. It's perplexing but I guess I'll find the cause at the right time.
I recognise about trauma responses, and doing the same thing over and over. However I've been learning about Polyvagal Theory and very soon start a course to learn to change the responses of the autonomic nervous system. These are automatic protective responses to stimuli that in the past signalled danger. Today, they block the way to things we want to do. The old responses can be changed, but not by talk therapy. Just passing this info on in case it's helpful.
I'm in the same boat. I've learned so much about narcissism and have a better understanding about why my family did the things they did, but I can't shake the idea that I don't "deserve" things that others do. I feel like I need to go through life using as few resources as possible, whether it's material things or others' time. This even extends to things like medical care, especially when I can't afford to pay out of pocket. It's absurd to me that someone so skilled and "better" than me should spend one moment helping me. I swear that my family gave me beliefs that are perfectly tailored to lead me to an early grave. I'm the only scapegoat that hasn't killed himself yet, so I may be correct.
@@mattstiefel4806 yes! I like how you worded the ending. I feel like I'm becoming more self aware yet that same awareness is somehow more frightening than being clueless. Now I understand my somewhat strange behavior/reactions but feel like the negative beliefs is so deeply ingrained that it's hard to break from it..
What a talented and insightful doctor, whose giving free therapy that would cost 1000's of dollars in a private practice. Hats off to you. Thanks for helping me heal.
This is my mother in law exactly, she’ll ask me very politely if I wanna do something with her, if I say no she rages out, then apologizes the next day with a great excuse and guilts me into doing what she wants. She does everything you’ve listed I can’t stand her.
This is so true, all their gifts are with fanfare and have strings attached to manipulate, they take revenge if you don't perform as they deem acceptable and woe betide you feel actual joy away from them and are not destroyed - they will steal that joy immediately and try to crush you for the privilege! They hoodwink many, but with discernment wise ones feel their energy is 'off'. Thank you Jesus for saving me.
This describes my mom. I've tried to point it out to other family members and even my friends but no one else sees it. I was always met with hate by her until I learned to fawn and praise her all the time. Only a few years ago I started to catch on to the fact that she seems to lack real empathy. Everything is all about her and she finds pets, "friends" and family members who "need her help" to feel good about herself in comparison. She's done her best to make me dependent on her but I have to step away and let her sit with her own feelings for once. She'll probably just find someone else to fix and depend on her instead 🤷♂️
This video lends clarity to the relationships I have had - those that preyed upon me (and I was perfect prey because I had been groomed by my mother my whole life) - that led me to feel confused by their care, realizing now that I was a pawn. The confusion was actually an alert to the disingenuousness of their intention, but I could never pinpoint why. I am now rewinding my life and am able to recognize those people who looped me into their web, then discarded me when I sensed disingenuousness and did not play the narcissistic supply role as they desired (which I of course interpreted as rejection, and was left thinking: " what's wrong with me?"). I am stronger than I knew and this helps me in learning how to better love myself.
Mr. Reid, thank you. I started going to therapy and canceled my appointment for today, this would have been my third one. I listened to myself and canceled because deep inside I feel that my therapist is in this just to make money. My last appointments brought me nothing. Your videos are so well described, you are so gentle and articulate. I’m learning more with you than I think I’d ever learn from my therapist. Understanding what was or is going on, why I feel the way I do, really helps me step back and understand that this is/was not my fault. From there, I can start healing and working at rebuilding my thought pattern and ultimately leave the narsistists mental and emotional grasp that is, in my opinion, what keeps survivors from moving forward. Again, thank you.
You just described my entire childhood, even the way Christmas went. We always knew it wasn’t really about us. I had a role to play of grateful child, regardless of how I actually felt. It didn’t matter if mom had caught you alone and said something horrible right before. Dry those tears and get out here and act grateful for every crumb.
I feel you. I have the same issue and it's so draining. Refusing unwanted 'help' results in outbursts of rage or power play, manipulating relationships with other family members. Accepting makes me feel weird because instead of getting actual help or even just being heard she seems to give a very superficial fix or whatever SHE thinks I should want/need. That's not what relationships should be based on.
Glad I saw your video in my playlist. I usually associate narcissism with self absorbed types, so wondered why I was feeling so drained being "helped" by someone who I thought was a good friend. I am going through a number of challenges with health, moving, decisions about pets, locations, etc, and she went from encouraging me to move to her state to way overstepping. I started to dread her texts and unasked for advice which had descended into shaming questions: "You haven't done such and such YET?" She scrambles my actual priorities as if she knows better. Any interaction with her and I feel like I am incapable of deciding what to eat for lunch 🙂 So thank you for this...
It's ALWAYS about them setting the narrative. I fell for this just this past week. It's really, really hard not to be manipulated into old patterns, even with minimum contact.🥴
I have had many emotional responses to your videos, but this one made me wince. This is exactly what attracted me to my future husband, that he publicly rescued me from a humiliating situation when I was twenty. In front of hundreds of people, he saved the day. I had no way of predicting that the day after we were married, three years later, he would slap me across the face, no way of knowing that for the next 43 years he would go far out of his way to publicly humiliate me. There are tears in my eyes again. Your teachings ring so true, they always make me cry.
This is scarily accurate. My gosh. He adopted 3 kids and has such rigid rules did for them but when he lets his guard down he has criticisms for them all. Their flaws if you will. He gives the impression he is so wonderful but I know he secretly loathes himself. He was so tight assed. Always taking from me and never giving back. All the women he’s met have left him and he can’t even wake up to himself. Others cannot see it but because I sadly had prior experience I was fooled for a while and then realised it was actually the worst kind of narcissism. Thank you.
This is exactly like the man I just ended things with. He brags about adopting his first wife’s two children constantly. The first red flag should have been how he claimed they changed his life so much while in the same breath he said he wasn’t a present father figure to them. He’s also very involved in his community & employees a lot of people. He thinks he’s a saint for employing women and people of color, but in his personal life these are the people he’s abused the most. He’s 50+ and still chasing external validation. He only wands young people around who idolize him for being a “good” business man and will seek him out for guidance. He doesn’t have a single person around him that’s his age. Only teens to 30 somethings who need a leg up in life. It’s really sick.
@@MsNaturalTresses he sounds like this guys twin. Always trying to get his young female staff to go running with him. He’s 60 They are in their twenties. He’s always telling them how to run their lives. He’s really creepy.
Thank you for sharing this. I wish there were more safe places to talk about this kind of stuff. My ex just passed away, and he was one of many adopted children of a man who I am 99% certain is a deeply wounded narcissist. The adoptive father is also very involved in the community, needing to believe he's a saint... I loved my ex because I saw the pain that lived in him as he was suffering through it... this 60+ old man chasing around a ~40 grown man, trapped in the cycle of saving him from himself. I have empathy for the unfortunate circumstances that created that relationship, but I do not overlook how the wounds were passed on to the next generation, because it needs to stop. I could relate to my ex for some very good reasons, i.e. on the basis of that very pain. I gave what conscious-making understanding I could and then I let him go, with no regrets. Love and prayers to my ex, who it wasn't his fault his relationship to his own soul was discarded so early in his life. May he be at peace now 🌺
Sophie that sounds fucking AWFUL. I never knew of this either. How did you deal with the subtle (they think) smear? I ve not said anything locally, but don't know if I should. That must ve been a horrid compromise once you saw behind the mask. It's quite a journey learning all of these types of toxic behaviours are really out there seeming kind. Nuts. Dingwall 🏴✌🏻❤️
Oh CRAP!!! I'm seen as a LOST CAUSE!?!? I see it clearly now. I'm relieved to realize that I wasn't "crazy" or ungrateful for the "help". I kept trying to figure it out. Nobody does THAT much for...nothing....and also this person does just what you said. Refuses any help in return and speaks unkindly about others she's "helped". Aaaaw, how saaaaad. P.S I like your bull.
I began to notice this in my narcissistic mother when she'd look at my basic medical and educational needs, scream "It's not fair to me to have to take care of you when your father won't" after she'd married and divorced a deadbeat, and make me pay dearly for every bit of care while parading herself as a martyr to my having any needs at all - and yet, drop huge amounts of money on cosmetic surgery, and fight tooth and nail every step I made towards autonomy. It was so self-contradictory and abusive that it took me a while to realize that it was intentional and strategic. Such a narcissist will covertly break the supports in other people's lives, seize control of the situation via the repair bill for the damage they did, and then parade their image. They need to be needed, and they actively hate autonomy and empowerment. Engulfment, enmeshment, and economic abuse are the terms for the kind of abuse that result from this.
This makes so much sense...this is why I have such a fear of accepting help and care hopefully this insight will help me gain the ability to learn how to be more open to that or at least be able to talk about it and find out if that person is safe. You can kinda tell when it's genuine for the most part... usually there's some rage or impatience like you say beneath the surface always brewing when the caretaking is more for them than it is for you. I also find that the caretaking feeds their superiority complex and used as a way to control you. I experienced sharing my mental health issues and that being used against me like I was told they were getting worse/increasing when they weren't...imagine wanting to make someone think they are going crazy so you could be the one to "help" them 😣
What an oxymoron! I did experience something similar with someone at my church. She was all ready to serve and give but I found out there was fine print at the bottom. Behind closed doors, when the important people weren’t looking, was eye-opening with her.
Eye opening! The grand gestures make you feel so special and loved! But they come with a hidden price tag. If I had a different opinion or complained, I was " punished" with the silent treatment. Withholding affection, triangulating me with the goldenchild, and projection were the famous tools used to make me cry.
Once again, I am floored by the way the narcissist is referred to with a lack of compassion. Isn't the narcissist also a victim? Do they not deserve empathy or sympathy for their own struggles? My narcissistically abusive father was scapegoated on a grand scale. His needs were not met. How was he supposed to be anything else? If the narcissist is coming from a deep inner sense of worthlessness, why is this not seen as something to be concerned about? Jay keeps emphasizing that the inner sense of worthlessness is the root cause, yet I do not hear him addressing the narcissist with any compassion or invitation to healing. We do not know what to do when we are broken. Sometimes we do not even know that we are broken. It's absolutely tragic in the most dramatic way. If the person feels worthless and they unconsciously engage in reactive behaviors to compensate, why is that not to be seen as a very sad and unfortunate thing? It's all tragic. In the bullying conversations they talk about how some victims become bullies. They are "victim-bullies" as opposed to the victims and the bullies. There is also the entire domain of spectrum diagnoses where certain children are predisposed to predatory behavior and some to the vulnerability that attracts the predator child. It's like chemistry. I think I am an altruistic narcissist in that I have always gravitated to the broken people. Whole and sane people make me feel awful. They pick up on all the ways you are not right right and remind you of it. Why would you want to be around them? And they are not all alright! They often have high opinions of themselves for wrong reasons. Society is a bitch to navigate. On the other hand.........why am I always attracted to narcissists (and hoarders)? I had a narcissistic friend who I felt had adopted me precisely because he saw me as broken and wanted to fix me. He set a sort of limit above which I could not rise because it felt like he needed to me to stay in that place of brokenness. This person helped me a lot!!!!!! But he also made me feel like shit and was blind to who I was as a person. I was like a pet that is not supposed to be able to talk so there is no requirement to ask for their opinions and ideas. He did most of the talking. When I said something he changed the subject. So frustrating. I needed him when I had no one. He showed me a lot about how to be in the world. And then he cut off my feet, figuratively. Finally I cut him off.
I relate. I got it from my Mom. I know her story. It excuses where she got it from. It doesn't excuse what was done to me. I'm resolving now to do _better_ and be _more_ honest and supportive than she was. Because, even now... _yes,_ I'm that petty. I wear my heart on my sleeve, and I will *continue* to be the "therapy friend," conscious or otherwise. Just because it hurts? Doesn't mean I get to stop.
They are never kind for kindness sake. They always want something in return. There is always a silent contract that the recipient is not aware of until later. I have learned to say 'if you expected something for (whatever it was they did) you should have told me right away. Instead you made a silent contract without my consent"
This is my Mom. She always needs to feel like the perfect parent and the most kind/nurturing/generous person and be praised, or we're acting spoiled/entitled/ungrateful. I have AuDHD and was chronically ill growing up and my Mom loved being my advocate, yelling at teachers and going to every doctor's appointment with me to garner sympathy. She would praise me so much to others, but would also pity me and make me feel like I was defective. She constantly expressed worry that she "did something wrong" when she raised me or when I was in the womb. Every time we went out in public she would pick at my clothes and make me stand up straighter, often making me go back inside to change or get my sister to pick my clothes. She would also come into my room without permission and angrily clean it and act furious whenever I was late or forgetful. I became too scared to wear pajamas or sleep too long because of my parent's reactions, and when they DIDN'T abuse me for my poor executive functioning and fatigue from disability they expected high praise at what a good job they were doing and how understanding they were. I've felt like such a burden my whole life, a weirdo, defective, slobby, overemotional. But she loved me being disabled because she could make me wholly dependant on her, unable to leave, and get constant sympathy and praise from her colleagues and my doctors. I'm just starting to realize that these messages I've believed might not be true. These videos have helped me so much, so thank you.
The holidays are painful. My mother has destroyed my relationships with everyone. She wanted me all for herself because i have the caring heart . she tells them to leave me alone since i was 10. I don't know 6 siblings , but took care of her oldest son since the age 18. She is the most hateful lady i have ever known , she thinks she smart , she thinks she controls other , especially me with her mind . Im playing back and leaving her alone
Oh hell, those mandatory displays of gratitude are still expected. I felt it since early childhood. It has taken me way too long to recognize that the pathological behaviour and abuse, and to put a name to it. I now feel permanently stuck.
This is the best description I've heard. Both of my parents are like this. In fact one year they gave gifts to everyone except my nephew, because they felt he never showed enough appreciation for any gifts they gave him.
This hit me right in the guts. I feel like throwing up. My heart is clenching and my legs tensed up and I’m also aware that 750 something people have left comments about relating to this. It’s rough. I’m 62 and my dad passed away at 97 a couple years ago now and I eventually realized he was a narcissist but when you Dr Reid described being kind only as a show it totally landed. Only cared for show. I can always pull myself together and get ok-ish to live life but sometimes the unaddressed stuff gets shuffled and ugh. Feels really….hurts. It hurts. So yeah. I feel for us.
I once had a friend that was like this. She suffered with BPD in the past but had recovered over the years after intensive therapy. But she was still narcissistic and would say she cared and showed she cared in front of people so it was hard to prove how she would put me down over and over again in private. Attempt to gaslight me, incredibly irritable when I didn't give back to her in a way that she deemed equal or more than, took advantage of me repeatedly. By the end of it, I had so many anxiety attacks after spending time with her that I had to say goodbye.
I am currently trying to leave my narc wife. She does this without needing an audience , well I am her “captive” audience. If I don’t validate and recognize every little everyday thing she does “ for me”, look out.
This is absolutely spot on! I had a very hard time saying what type my narc is and it’s this. He has also said that he feels under appreciated. That he was less than. Such a joke.
Are you aware that domestic violence perpetrators who are men get custody of their children far more often than other divorcing men who care for their children enough to let them continue to be cared for by their main care giver? A narcissistic domestic violence perpetrator is often deterrmined to get sole custody of their biological children no matter what it costs them or anybody else including their chidlren. When a divorcing man (or woman) is often withholding joint custody access to their estranged wife (or estranged husband) it is not always clear evidence that the other parent wants to be neglectful of their children or that they are a terrible parent.
Spot on description on the altruistic narcissist parents shift in nature, when no audience there to applause them! -Living with this type of narcissist, is mind boggling and bone chilling to the core. Thank you so much for this channel!
I had a friend once who always went overboard with her telling me how much she cared when we would re-connect. The issue is that she would constantly disappear. Ghosting. Discard. Then a year or two later she'd pop back up out of nowhere. 🤷🏻♀️ Buh-bye.
You ever check on her to see if she's ok? Sometimes people are going through personal stuff, but others don't check on them because they close up because they don't want to bother anybody with their issues.
I have withdrawn from friends I cherish when I am in a lot of pain because I think I will only overwhelm them and be considered too needy. It has nothing to do with discarding them. Usually I will mention that i am facing something, and sometimes ask for help or small support, but not always.
My mom all the way...she was a nurse too so you can imagine how much she's gotten away with. My story is similar to Gypsy Rose Blanchard's story but not exact. Thank God for my close relationship with God and for youtube to educate me on my situation. I will be just fine and so will the rest of you!
I think an easy way to tell is by measuring yourself snd how you feel helping somone. Does it feek nice, are there thoughts of expectations after besides a "thank you" or a smile. Most people who are genuine do things without thinking because it feels good and they like to see others happy. Besides mutual love and support, there's no strings attached.
I love that you mentioned the rule making and breaking to serve the narcissist agenda. I’ve experienced this so many times. A lot of the times these rules are unspoken, and they change as they see fit without warning. They make a rule and also don’t hold themselves to it; like you have to behave a certain way but not them, it’s a double standard. They have no integrity.
That was very good... this is one of those really obscure forms of narcissism for sure. Takes a long time to clarify things from this abuse but I am so grateful to the people (altruistic narcissists) in my life that showed me this particular dynamic not only in them but even as a reflection of myself as well. I can see how in my life I have done things for the sake of seeming superior in terms of care. In a way, going through this kind of abuse, I reckon, can make anyone really discover true authenticity in themselves. Something that helped me was being able to be the same person that I am when I am alone as the person I am with other people. Not just to come to accept the truth of me but also to share those things honestly with my relationships that I may have otherwise been ashamed of before. Pushing myself toward more and more self awareness and self acceptance every day has taken a lot of courage to receive the reflections from others with clarity and humility. However there is so much growth to gain from any person when we finally prioritize healing for ourselves. We only become so much stronger individuals and can re-learn self trust and trust in others. I really appreciated this video!
@@essenceoflove1069 Thank you for the kindness! It is interesting to me in certain contexts we can understand each other, and in others we become very foreign. I appreciate it so much that my experiences make sense to others here and I am seeing now how important context can be.
@@marcharsveld2914 Definitely! We were absolutely brought up to feign humility in order to survive in society and so our self concepts are vastly underdeveloped and have no cognition of true humility. True humility is holding the weight of reality within your self-concept and caretaking it like a delicate child.
So enlightening. I didn't know about narcissistic abuse, covert or overt until only recently. My narc mother was definitely overt, malignantly overt. Now I see my first husband was an altruistic narc. His mother was a narcissist, father the enabler, sister the scapegoat. He used to say to me and others behind my back, that I had trust issue because of my childhood abuse. I couldn't understand why I was supposedly loved so much by such a great husband but felt so bad. Now it all makes much sense! Thankfully I chose to believe my feeling over his gaslighting.
This is so right on target. Thank you. What's the difference between narcissistic collecting lost causes and a codependent running around rescuing people?
As I've thought about this and listened again, it's in the motivation. They both do it for a sense of worth, but the codependent doesn't need gratitude, recognition or approval. At least that's how my over caretaking works which is pretty codependent. I do like seeing the results though.
Hmmmm, I am the adult child of narcs, and before meeting and living with a very healthy, assertive, honest, kind friend, I assumed that I was supposed to read other peoples minds and that they were supposed to read mine; I was terrified of ever having to express direct anger to anyone, getting angry felt very vulnerable and "mockable"; to get my own needs met, I would do all sorts of unsolicited "favors" for someone to "save up on them," so that if I needed their help, (in my mind) they "couldn't" say no.....if someone DID say no, I would flip from the frenzied "generosity" into icy, punitive silent treatment. I know-- yuck! At the time, all of this was entirely unconscious on my part, and terribly unhealthy. But over time, he helped me to see that my expecting mindreading was not healthy or fair, and he himself was so forthright and accepting about all feelings that I learned how to be more forthright myself. I think SOMETIMES we can unlearn some narcissistic traits, behaviors and assumptions?
You are so intuitive. This was so validating. Made me think of all the love bombing with the heart emojis and "useful" links that my mom would send me, as well as all of her advice and excessive "concern".
This is my family - mother, aunt, grandmother - to a friggin’ T. I’ve learned this, after having my mother be my “caretaker,” for the last 7yrs, due to becoming disabled/homebound. To which, ALL of my health issues? Result of Cushing’s Syndrome, symptoms misdiagnosed, beginning at the age of 6; from long-term exposure to cortisol, due to living in such a stressful environment.
This is my father. My mother is a covert narcissist. With my mother it was obvious but it was not that obvious with my father. My parents were divorced and my father played hero to the situation. I noticed with my father he was fine helping me when I had issues and would say he just wants respect but whenever I developed in anyway that he was not involved he was emotionally unavailable. Respect is earned. I did not take my inheritance because his help was damaging my soul and making me weak. When family members (cousin's) were toxic towards me I found myself in a situation where I was blamed by my father. Narcissism operates in a family structure. Who would of thought that generosity could be weaponised.
Wow- this is my mum! This year was the first Christmas I’ve had no contact with her and apart from the peace of not having to talk to her (and my narcissistic dad), I felt so much more relaxed than ever before. I realized that in fact I have always dreaded Christmas and birthdays because of the gifts. She would make a big deal of asking if I’d received the gift and whether I liked it and give me the story around buying it. And I always have to like it and make a show of thanking her. If I didn’t I was ungrateful and nasty. The one year it really made me laugh was when she sent some treats to my cat (who she liked more than me). He didn’t like them and I made the mistake of saying that and she got upset. Really? Over a $2 packet of cat treats? Who gives a crap whether the cat likes them or not? Does that really define somebody’s sense of importance? To her it did and probably still does. Thank you for highlighting that the guilt and fear I feel around being given something- anything- is not normal. I am working on feeling I deserve gifts from people who love me. People who really love me.
Thank you so much for your explannation of my confusing and painful 8 year relationship. He was so superior and always trying to make me over for my own good. A real Mr nice guy who was studying to be a life coach. No one believed me when I told them about his rages and temper tantrums behind closed doors.
I just went for a walk and was thinking about these types of people. I loved that you mentioned the fake friendships. I once had a “friend” who I realized was only my “friend” because I made her look “good” because she thought of me as a charity case. She even talked about how she was doing such a good deed by being someones bridesmaid because that person has no other friends and she felt sorry for her. So she was pretending to be peoples friends. I thought at the time, maybe this person thinks you are friends because you say YES to things like being her bridesmaid! It was so sad how she was deceiving this person for her own personal image under the guise of helping.
These are the kinds of people they look for. They bring them in as "projects" so to speak. His primary source came to him sadly over weight, suffering from MS, just recently divorced and unhappy with her life.. Took her for every last cent she had. She lost weight and was fooled into believing if it had not been for him shed be dead or what ever. He becomes the big hero!!!!! and she looks up to him like an abusive God. She will never be good enough, for ever his project.
I couldnt pin point what this kind of behavior was but i knew something just didnt sit right . My sister always helps out people without them asking and then she throws it in their face whenever she gets angry wtf is that ?
When you get angry is different, different one shows up, the one who probably she fights against. Sometime stress and lack of recognition can cause it. I bet when she calm down she still help them.
They do that when their “grandiose” persona feels threatened. They don’t take responsibility for anything, so if anyone points out something that wasn’t okay, their fragile ego gets hurt. When their fragile ego gets hurt, they’ll start throwing in your face all the things “they’ve done for you,” and how you should be more grateful to them, instead of addressing the issue and taking responsibility for their actions.
@@Chuleta_9 You are describing some cases, they are not all the same, psychology is too intricate to put a label like you do to everyone who act like that. When some awareness lights up in people things can change, but still when they get hurt they still can trow on you what they did, it do not mean is they fault, it can be the other way.
Wow! You nailed it! You gave a very interesting and informative analysis that is a hauntingly accurate description of the altruistic narcissists I know. It all makes sense now. 🤔
I just went for a walk and was thinking about these types of people. I loved that you mentioned the fake friendships. I once had a “friend” who I realized was only my “friend” because I made her look “good” because she thought of me as a charity case. She even talked about how she was doing such a good deed by being someones bridesmaid because that person has no other friends and she felt sorry for her. So she was pretending to be peoples friends. I thought at the time, maybe this person thinks you are friends because you say YES to things like being her bridesmaid! It was so sad how she was deceiving this person for her own personal image under the guise of helping. Very inauthentic and true manipulation.
Yesterday being Christmas.. I don’t even care about holidays, anymore - not until I have my own family. No matter my efforts, it always goes bad. In fact, the less effort I put in - the better it seems to go. Meaning, the worse I look - by not caring about such important “family” events - the better they look, by way of their “caring” and gift-giving efforts. Which, makes them happy. It took me moving away and taking months of cognitive behavioral therapy trainings - to figure out that my unexplainable feelings towards my family were there for very valid reasons..
Thank you for this video. My dad was one and I was in a ten year relationship with one which I left three months ago. He knows I’m financially stable and literally have no one so he’s waiting for me to come back begging him for forgiveness. I thank God for saving me from that even if I’m struggling financially right now. Never ever going back
So true. They do things for you so you are dependent on them. They do everything they can to make sure you can't leave them. They try to keep you financially and physically incapable of leaving. But to outsiders it looks like the narcissistic person is the best person ever.
Yes, and the severely neglected child is "spoiled."
Both of these comments! ❤
So true
Yes. Yes. Yes. So exacting. Big illusionists..
It's a mind bender!!
Yep
A tell tale sign is when everyone is coming at you telling you what a great person the altruistic narc is and how you should be more grateful when at home you grovel for crumbs of affection or attention.
They have two personas
This is why I’m leaving everyone behind as soon as possible. There’s no way anyone is going to believe a black single mother is anything but genuinely altruistic towards her only child.
@@kiaracharles746 All true - and Be Thankful for social media .. that you have all this information at your current age.
@@izi.z2384 You can bet I am!
I'm in a wheelchair, and get this a lot. He seems amazing to others. But just today, I was stuck in bed till 12:45. I made the mistake of complaining when I was woken abruptly in the morning, so guess that was my punishment. No one sees that. But in public, he's the fawning, perfect husband, and I literally don't have 1 person I can say these things to that would believe them.
They LOVE to take in family members that are down on their luck, so that other people will talk about how altruistic they are 🙄 Then they gaslight them and make them dependent on them so that they can control them, all the while talking about how they have saved them.
Yes! And there is a religous version to families like that, one where prayer requests are sent to an entire community for "so and so to recover from drug problems, porn addictions, etc." At one church they did this to a fourteen year old girl: they just BROADCAST her vulnerabilities to an entire congregation. Gaslighting to the max.
yes exactly this happened in my family! then it happened to me when i dated a narcissist 😣
Yeah Thanks Daddy.
Wow! This comment! Sooo true!
Literally my mom. 😳
This explains why I never FELT love in our house! But emotional blackmail was used regularly.
I am 35 and living at my NPD grandparents for 5 years now and until recently I had no idea why. One day at night at summer, I went out to the balcony and the neighbor old spouse was out there. And I was like... wow that warmth. They did not talk, did not hug, nothing, I just felt that and how that was missing in our "home".
@@Thysta I get caresses from The Most High by way of the sun and the night sky and the air I breathe and the green grass under my feet... that's beats a blank (as my Mom used to say)
@@inksosadstonewell4831 I guess every bad experience can be a lesson. "The bad things that happen to me, I somehow make them good. That means you can't do anything to hurt me.” - 50 Cent
@@Thysta I just saw something about that being Yin and Yang...maybe this can help too...Peace and Love
Yes
You can be sure that anytime a narcissist does something for someone, it's the narcissist that will benefit and not the recipient of the narcissist's largesse.
Their help always comes at a price.
Number one rule in their playbook.
Yeah, my dad would go to the soup kitchen. I thought he was a good guy. I later came to realize when he did it he would always make it known, always!
Not necessarily true. Mine just wants his reputation to
" shine" above others. He will sacrifice, and almost martyr himself to " care" for others. He only cares for others, to his own detriment, in many cases. Figuring this out was SO ,SO ,SO, Confusing !!
Really dangerous for adoptees. Many adoptive “parents” have ulterior, narcissistic motives. ☹️
I have seriously considered writing a book about the hell adopted kids can and do endure. My sister was the Golden Child but no one has ad contact with her in over a decade. Smart choice. I'm doing the grey rock thing. The scapegoat . I'm to the point of cutting ties with what's left of an extremely dysfunctional and abusive family. No one seems very interested in contact for decades except the mal narc now an elderly pathetic gargoyle who works at being willfully ignorant and instigating liar and fraud. This is an extremely condensed headline. Plus it's amazing how much of one's self has to be kept hid for my own sanity and ssafey
Sounds like Myka Stauffer, a women who purposefully set out to adopt a disabled Chinese boy only for RUclips views who within a couple years gave him to another family within her state because he was "too hard". She made an "explanation" video where she shed no tears. There are many videos examining her body language in her "explanation"/ "apology" video. If you haven't heard of her, wew, you're in for a deep dive of a true Narc.
@Lucy McGillicuddy Mommie Dearest.
OMG, this makes so much sense - an ex-friend of mine, who I just realised last year is narcissist (hence the 'ex'!), adopted a kid...I'm so heart-broken knowing what I do now, that that beautiful child is just going to be used as an extension of their adoptive mother's broken ego :-(
@@graceb3934 damn...
It is not out of a good heart, it is out of calculation
But my elder sister always says she is born that good. 🤔
@@oOIIIMIIIOo
Oh, if she *says* so
They want to look good and torment their targets at the same time. It's all about control and maintaining their godlike complex fake self..
Yup.
@blancotequila
Most will see but not comprehend fully.. until after perhaps decades, incompability is a biatch
My narcissistic mother set me up so that she could 'swoop in' and comfort me. She kept me from people who were good to me, and forced / coerced / manipulated / brainwashed me into being with people who treated me poorly. My guess for her reasons are: (1) other people treating me abusively justified in her mind her treating me in the same way, and (2) whenever my heart was broken / I was disappointed, she could sit with me and say, "There, there. Relationships are hard, aren't they?" taking secret delight in my suffering, so that she could feel like she was helping or saving me, when in reality, she wanted me to be mistreated.
That's fucked up. Pretty insightful for you to see that.
I feel so seen and heard, same experience
We must have the same mom! Don't forget the phrases 'I know you're So Sensitive 'Honey'',& 'I think you just love Drama' (calling a seizure or medical episode Drama). There are more phrases, but those are the ones came to mind. I hope you're Safe, & able to protect yourself. I've been praying for Decades to get Help(love, honestly) for All of us, so I hope it's working ❤️
I feel your pain
They want you suffering as them
I have met many people with this type of narcissism and it’s exhausting. The gifts they would give were always over the top and excessive. I felt like I had to reciprocate or keep up even though I didn’t want to. It seemed phony and manipulative. One family member would give my kids a lot of money for their birthday or graduation (more than I did) to show off how rich she was. Every time she would then say to them, “you better take care of me when I’m old and alone”. It made me angry that she was trying to control them and that there was an agenda for her gift giving. You don’t GIVE to expect to RECEIVE!
The victims of altruistic narcisists feel that the help is not coming straight from the heart but is a product of manipulation and hidden agenda and the process of giving in such cases is deeply humiliating and degrading as the receipients are being objectified, exploited and abused. Thank you Jay.
That’s my mother. The length she is ready to go really far to “selflessly “ helps others is amazing! Unfortunately, when it comes to her own kids, we were neglected and abused. But everyone just believes that we are ungrateful people.
If we could count the times we were called "ungrateful" huh? I never understood what she wanted. This video clarifies it: Servitude.
When I was in therapy, my mom raged at me after I simply asked her to leave the session so that I can be more comfortable. She was absolutely okay Infront of the counselor but the moment we came home, it was hell.
Ya. I know. Have a husband like that
I remember, as a child, when my family would attend an event. During the event, things were fine; all seeming to have a good time. As soon as we got in the car to leave, Hyde came out, and the family turned into something altogether different. I couldn't explain it, but it seemed, as a child, surreal.
My mom didn't rage at me. But she took it out on me in other ways, for the same reason. She tried to get me diagnosed with narcissistic personality disorder, while I was in inpatient care for the first time. My care team educated me about NPD and warned me about my mother. They didn't want me to think they were diagnosing her, because they weren't, but they asked me if these things resonated with my home life. It was so validating.
It was always in my mind why my mother came with me when I went to see a therapist. She has BPD. I had that gut feeling she was there to make sure I don't expose nothing out of the family terror horror dysfunction.
You wanted to feel comfortable while your mom felt a loss of power and control. For her it was a narcissistic injury and you were punished for causing that coming home. One can easily and unknowingly hurt a narc while doing what's best for yourself, hence it's never going to get better. Even the fact she stayed calm in front of the councelor is telling. Nothing wrong with the narc. The mask never drops in public.
When you’re in this type of relationship as a child and then again as an adult, you start to feel like your the bad one…it’s mind blowing!!!
There is a tremendous amount of emotional payback due from this kind of "care". You will never really get to the end of actually paying it back, no matter how much you give or do.
OMG!!! After 55 years of searching, I can finally name what my sister has done to me for years!!
Same here. Isn't it hell?
Wow! That's amazing!
And they tried to make you believe you're not resilient and strong... 😏 Fuck 'em.
Same here!
Same! 62 here and now I know what my sister was doing!
Among many other things I guess.
Yip, a common tactic, they’ll always know what’s best for everyone else
@Mike M" Covid Believers" lol. What the hell is that? Is it the same as cancer believers, or science believers?
@Mike M "There's no science behind Covid." Wow. Very educated take. 🤪
Yet their lifes are a mess my altruistic narc bf is about to be homeless and always says how im going backwards instead of forward in life.
@Mike M Your comment just insulted you. You did it for me thanks flat earther.
@Mike M My 50 yr old healthy sister died 9 days after she contracted covid last year in April.
This virus is real.
"The caring only happens when theirs a show to give." Sounds like every PTA Mom at my kids school. They do everything for their kids, host parties, do elaborate projects. But when they are home, they ignore the child. (I lived next door to a PTA mom like this. )
Haha..... yes I can totally see this being true.
That is true. At times, at home, they even do worse than "ignore the child."
Sadly I was adopted by an altruistic covert narc mother and ended up with a covert altruistic narc bf.the care they give is a tactic to make u codependent.its better to be independent.im slowly healing.
bit of a generalisation perhaps!
I found that most PTA moms behave like that! It's all a show!
The part about having to repetitively nonexhaustively continually uplift and speak on the greatness and excessive kindness of the narcissist to all around while experiencing that reality in a rather alternative way is EXACTLY my own experience
It is heartbreaking and cruel
@@goddessnoir290 yes it is
It’s horrible to find out that there are so many of us. 😢
This answers so many questions for me. The primary narcissist in my life tics all of these boxes. This type of narcissism can be very confusing, as they 'appear' empathetic because of what they DO, but their presence does 'NOT FEEL' empathetic, because, of course, they don't genuinely feel empathetic.
They only help because they want an appraisal, but they hide their true selves from others. I'm leary of those always being too kind, not that I like being around rude people, but too much kindness is not natural
It's all about show. They don't actually care about the people they're helping - it's just to make them feel more superior.
I feel the same... My father ticks all of these boxes too. It also explains why only long term partners, or grown up children, feel awkward or bad. Short term or adult accointainces do not see him as mean or narcissistic, they only witness the grandiosly empathic generous caring show-off 🙄
I am giving all the time...and do share my believes and opinions.
Does this make me a narc?
I've been told I am too sensitive.
@@tanyastevens710 you've got to talk to a psychologist with experience in narcissism to know.
It felt like you were telling my childhood Christmas story.
Every year. Every present. Every reaction monitored and critiqued. I never wanted presents from this person again.
But I did learn how not to treat my own kids.
Gratitude on demand is like buying an attitude. It only serves the one on the receiving end and nobody is happy with it.
I still can’t receive gifts from my mom without my insides flipping out . I’m 30
I grew to hate getting gifts and still hate getting acknowledged on my birthday. There were always, always, always strings attached, usually along the lines of "I bought you a nice gift, now you are obligated to put up with my abuse."
This is so very true. It’s a scary thing really. Because often these people hide behind the guise of fixing, giving and false goodness.
Spot on
After a particularly difficult depressive episode I had to move in with my parents. After a year of nothing but therapy, and when I was beginning to get my legs under me, in the midst of a fight my mother screamed in my face, "I did this for you.I fixed you. It was me. I'm the one that fixed you."
@@adrian-vu6gt, Don’t believe her.
I was always sick as a child. I visited the emergency room weekly. I remember my mother always was giving me a pill when I was overwhelmed after her mistreatment to me. I believe those times I was overwhelmed I was having panic attacks. She received so much attention from others for having to take care of a sick child. Now that I'm a adult I'm rarely sick. Im the healthiest person I know. I know without evidence that she was doing things to me that caused me to show symptoms of being sick. I have never trusted her not even as a child but I was trained not to say anything.
Ugh! I am so sorry. This hurts my heart to read.
I began having panic attacks at age 6 because of this. Never knew what they were until they immediately stopped once I married and left home. Took me years, but now I know.
There is a sub type of narcissistic disorder or additional comorbidity disorder which is called munhausen syndrome. It's very dangerous becase a parent like that can actually end up killing the child.
What a nightmare! My mother was similar. She looooved when her kids were sick n suffering. That was the only time I saw her light up and genuinely smile. She did things to sabotage my happiness n health. She totally destroyed my self esteem and self worth. She wanted a captive not a daughter. I think I’ll let her die alone.
@@eokhonko @chrystalwallace3094 Yes, I thought of Munchausen by Proxy too. I'm so sorry you experienced that, Chrystal! < : - 0
Yes it's exhausting, telling them how great they are, when what's expected of you, is to be some kind of threat. Everything they give you is thrown up in your face, constantly you are reminded of what they gave you over the years. They ignore what you gave them. It's like they don't give with a good heart, or like they really mean it.
When you got to Sign 4 (taking on "lost cause" friends as projects to improve them)... hooo boy, do I have someone for you! My mother is the queen of this. She will climb over you to find a socially "inferior" person to make over in her image. She loves taking "uncultured" people to the opera and then lecturing them on how to appreciate it. Or going into people's homes and redecorating for them on the spur of the moment, even though nobody asked for that. She even took up with a coworker to teach the woman how to "speak better" and MADE A SET OF FLASHCARDS so the woman could practice her pronunciation!
Needless to say, all of these interactions end the same way: the person gets fed up with being condescended to and exits the relationship. Then my mother gets all self-righteous and bent out of shape because "look at all I did for them!" and they are showing insufficient gratitude.
She is an entire mess.
Buy her a monkey :)
Yes! My father was the most popular, the kindest, and softest, most resourceful and understanding, supporting teacher in town. It was all about image! My siblings and I had to be kind and submissive, even to strangers, we had to curtsy - in the eighties! At home he was a different animal! He beat us up, then dictated a story for the doc ... And finally we had to kiss him good night! Constant double binds, gaslighting and punishment. It even changed my pain threshold. A life in fog, frost, duty-empathy and inability to identify evil. For most of my life I was surrounded by narcissists. But luckily now I know. I can detect them! I see their insatiable greed for all and ever. I can hear them waiting for their triumphantly "Schadenfreude". If possible, I avoid them. Every now and then I let one talk - it's like a puzzle - smile and just turn away...
I am so thankful I found you Dr. Reid. I’m 59 and finally really taking a hard look at my experience growing up the scapegoat in my family of origin. My mother ignored me my entire life and still does. I went no contact recently for 5 years and thought I got healthy... so my sister the flying monkey reached out and convinced me to give our mother another chance to be a “family”. What a mistake. One year later I’m back to my feelings of anger, fear, rejection. My mother is now holding her Trust as a tool for manipulation. I’m trying to detach again and create boundaries again. She is 87 and still manipulating as ever. Her tool was and is the silent treatment toward me. I will continue to watch your videos. Thank you.
Joanne C.
Respectfully, It was not a "mistake." You thought you were healed, and obviously you weren't. I don't know what you have to learn, but it is still there for you. I have suffered significantly in life, and at the time it was easy to write things off as a "mistake," but there was so much to learn.
Don't let perfectly good suffering go to waste!
Never again right?
Joanne -- what an awful experience. I could be your stand-in, I swear. Same exact situation. Doesn't surprise me at all that the nuke in your mother's arsenal is money. Hopefully you won't need it. But if you do or will (and who wouldn't?), that sucks too. For what it's worth, I remind myself that it very well may happen and work with my financial advisor to prepare for it. I plan to keep watching Jay's videos (and I'm taking the course right now too). There's hope, if only that there's at least one other person on the planet who knows EXACTLY what you're talking about and has lived it too. There IS hope. I refuse to let her win. Because I am the stronger one. And so are you.
My mother & brother, the flying monkey, conspired to steal my inheritance from me. I was so stupid to think my brother wouldn’t betray me . He’s done it before and I never learn. Now I will never, ever have contact w either of them again. Get back to no contact. Rip that bandaid off.
I went back to my dad last year and, like your situation, I was only there for a year (not even a full year). He promised to let me stay so I can go to school and save money to get my own place.
It was absolute hell!
I finally left over the weekend and it was awful. Friends witnessed his true nature and it was a full on rage.
I don't consider it a mistake at all. It gave me the final push to completely cut him out, move to NYC like I always wanted to. I never thought I could and never would've gotten his support for. I don't care about his opinions anymore. He is miserable and hateful. This is not what I want in my life.
I'll always remember the things he said to me that last day. He has said many awful things to me growing up, including "I fu**ing hate you" and I'll never forget it. I don't believe his opinions of me. I know they are not true. He wants me to feel bad about myself to manipulate me. That's not love and I deserve love.
So do you.
Get therapy, set boundaries, and educate yourself on red flags and find new people to be with.
So spot on very hard to detect it takes a long time to see this high level of manipulation. It is really sickening they feed off your traumas and pain. Sick
Many people are broken and will seek a part of you in a vain attempt to repair themselves.
Good insight....fleepimg vampires
Bingo
Deep
@Have Issues Interesting... I am glad you are aware of it. I HOPE and pray you have success in curbing it !! Also, in making amends.
@Have Issues I do understand those with npd and those who are in relationships with them. I agree BOTH need help with the trauma associated with what caused those who have it and those who suffer abuse from those who have it. It's a vicious cycle in which there are many victims on both sides.
They make you say thank you all the time even for small things, they demand it. They expect to be hugged all the time. They also think if you don't phone or visit them often, you are considered ungreatful.
Exactly what my ex was like
Yeap totally. I never attend parties, weddings or christening and 100% always down to job commitment but send gifts cards money and never get a thank you
And when you do visit them, you have to cater to whatever "mood" they're in, or be ignored while they're on a device. No winners here.
Oh my goodness. I can relate to this. If I did not say thank you for each and every little thing, I would catch it. Also, this family member (sister) deliberately never got married, said she intended to remain single, never allowed herself to date a man who could conceivably ever want commitment. Yet, when she became old and still had no one in her life, she expected me and her friends to take on a lot of the emotional support she might have gotten from a partner and spend a lot of time with her and "soothe her when the winds of life battered the ship", as I often thought of it. She guilt tripped me if I didn't do as much as she expected. She claimed she "felt responsible for me" and I never told her she was responsible for me. I just wanted a normal relationship and I think now she was saying that to keep me around and have a chance to exert some form of control. She even wanted me to get rid of my own partner and would urge me over and over to do so. I would just ignore it. In recent years it got really bad. I have had to go to a psychologist recently because of this and much more.
I’ve never heard it explained like this. Wow. So healing and validating. I was adopted by a narcissistic mom and codependent dad and was groomed to be thankful despite the violence and terror. They had everyone fooled.
I was told that I had a good upbringing...because we Kept Up Appearances...we had food, we had clothes, we were involved in the church and community. We were in sports, clubs and activities. We all had jobs and went on dates as high schoolers. We had a good life on paper. But we were all emotionally crippled. I dare say even the Golden Child is, even though he has what appears to be "the ideal life."
Mine thought he was the mayor of our block. Always helping others and getting involved to feed his ego. Behind closed doors he was a monster. He could change personalities from evil to mr. nice guy in a flash. He was nauseatingly phony. On the road, he chased drivers down if they ran a stop sign and tried to provoke fights. He once chased a women to her home with my young sons in the car. I’m so thankful he is on to his next supply. I threw him out which was such a blow ego and I never missed him for 1 second. He abused my child and that is an unforgivable sin.
When you mentioned about the narcissist feeling more comfortable around "lost causes", I really wanted to hear more about that. You were spot on in this video...but if you could expand on the narcissist's draw to the lost causes, especially in the midst of their "altruism" it would really be helpful. Great video! Thank you
Kara m,hope you are not with a narcissist!
In my experience they prefer to be around people they can feel better than or superior to in some way. They are not comfortable with anyone who may be their competition or cause them to feel insecure or ashamed in anyway.
This opens the door for them to prefer to be around people who are struggling in some way shape or form because they can tell themselves “see I’m not as pathetic as them”.
My ex used to tell me I was most beautiful to him when I was broken, sad, crying or angry. When I found that out I made sure to not share those emotions with him any more. We often feel compelled to take the role of if you can’t beat em join em- I sure did and desecrated my soul in the process.
@Have Issues i praise your self reflection & seeking spirit🙂
@Have Issues i know how you feel! We all have the potentials and can be more N at some times more than at Others, and some have more N more often than other people. Some are pure N, which is sad since its such an insecure inner self. Trying to improve yourself is excellent! Not blaming others is part of being able yo do that, i feel. But also, narcissistic tendebcies dont appear out of a vacuum. Youre battling something that made u this way too. As am i (lots of narc & narc abuse inmy family & the people ive been drawn to as an adult ). It can make a person retreat into self absorption. It can be enabled. Asu cultivate real empathy, you will see kindness come more easily, more automatically. Keep the faith 🙂
Two narcissists in my family work in health care. One is a hospital pharmacist and the other is a dentist. They can act like they are the most caring people ever
I really like how you mention the scapegoats always get treated less than others.
"Whats the point" is a familiar low feeling i got from not just close ones but others in general society!
The ONLY way they want me around is to take advantage of me and make me feel drained by their energy vampire tactic.
I hated this feeling, it was very common and agitating and hurtful.
This is SO my husband. He’s always making me meals, coffee or tea in the morning, plumping and propping up my pillows and blankets and never letting me get up to do things for my dogs or myself. He says he’s the best husband ever. The only thing is that he loads my food and drinks up with a ton of fats, sugars and salt. Not so it tastes bad, but so my blood pressure sky rockets, my arteries get clogged and I get fat and lazy. He would seem like a dream but he’s a psycho and I’m always walking on eggshells. I never know when he’s going to flip out and turn into Dr Jeckyl.
He’s the same way about gifts. Christmases are always loaded with expensive gifts, but as soon as Christmas is over, he becomes mean and nasty. He’s a complete rager and causes me so much anxiety and stress. I’m in a constant state of high adrenaline. Ugh, I know, I need to leave. Not so easy.
Sorry to hear. Careful about your privacy.
So sorry. This is a difficult situation. Take care of yourself.
I understand this. I’m praying for you.
Re Christmas, my x used to whine and bitch about Christmas coming, and then beat me up verbally after Christmas
for all that I owed him that he did. Also a rager. POS.
Make sure you look after you adrenals. And drink fresh lemon juice in water. Look at Dr Eric Berg on yt for health. All short clips, and there isn't anything he doesn't cover or know. All the best!
As someone who recently realized theyre narcissistic, I find it comforting to watch videos like this because it helps me understand myself better. I wish there were more videos about how to COPE with oneself once they realize they’re a narcissist.
I think the only genuine way I can “care” or “protect” others is by helping them spot the other narcissists in their lives (assuming they don’t know and are looking for help with figuring out that particular person)
I’m saving up for therapy.
Look to lee hammock on youtube.. he is a diagnosed narc who has set out to help others to spot the signs and to get other narcs into therapy. He is in therapy for 4 years, he calls himself a self aware narc.. rare but do-able if you really want it, truly want it.. a few rare narcs truly want to work on themselves..
@@anz10 thank you so much.
@WhammyWhammy yes I have. Some of his videos are good. Some are just too abstract and cerebral. It comes off as a performance which isn’t always appealing and strays from clearly delivering the message.
@WhammyWhammy I’m going to check those out now. Thank you.
@The Wheat & Taresit took many psychedelic drug sessions to get to this point. I believe there’s some truth to my observations. I’m not hung up on labels, but the patterns are there. And my childhood had all the traumatic things occur in it that would create a narcissistic sociopath (anti social personality spectrum).
Great stuff bro. Please for God sake get these messages out to everyone. People having their lives destroyed and don't realize what is going on. It is not their fault. Every Dr. Needs to get this message out. Fast!
My moms caretaking came with the implication that i was incompetent and incapable of caring for myself. Also implied that I was needy, pitiful, and a beggar. There were also tones of "i know what you need better than you do." And the "things i needed" were always superficial and didnt reflect my personality at all, but i was supposed to attach great depth and meaning to them by filling in the blanks. My mom feeds unheathy foods to people and buys expensive presents as a way to manipulate their opinions of her. It was just her special way of projecting toxic shame.
It all became so absurd and nonsensical when i started refusing presents for me and my children. It resulted in my mom throwing endless tantrums. She really believed that she had the right to give presents to me whether i wanted them or not. Its obvious that it wasnt ever about me or my happiness or showing love. It was always a manipulation and the pressure was put on me to reflect back that she was loving and kind. I didnt feel loved but i was expected to pretend. To this day, i cannot accept presents from anyone without being deeply triggered into feelings of worthlessness and shame and emotional deprivation.
My struggle right now is getting past the mindset of "I don't deserve to be given to". I've learned so much about NPD, my childhood trauma, and then making the connection from a spiritual pov with my true self. I've finally, after leaving my ex a little over a year ago, accepted a lot of what's caused me so much turmoil inside of my head....and yet I can't seem to accept that I am deserving of what I desire in my life... Even though I know I am, I find myself always running back to my trauma response of introversion and feeling as though I have to deal with the matter alone because I'll end up in this scenario regardless. It's perplexing but I guess I'll find the cause at the right time.
I recognise about trauma responses, and doing the same thing over and over. However I've been learning about Polyvagal Theory and very soon start a course to learn to change the responses of the autonomic nervous system. These are automatic protective responses to stimuli that in the past signalled danger. Today, they block the way to things we want to do. The old responses can be changed, but not by talk therapy.
Just passing this info on in case it's helpful.
I'm in the same boat. I've learned so much about narcissism and have a better understanding about why my family did the things they did, but I can't shake the idea that I don't "deserve" things that others do. I feel like I need to go through life using as few resources as possible, whether it's material things or others' time. This even extends to things like medical care, especially when I can't afford to pay out of pocket. It's absurd to me that someone so skilled and "better" than me should spend one moment helping me.
I swear that my family gave me beliefs that are perfectly tailored to lead me to an early grave. I'm the only scapegoat that hasn't killed himself yet, so I may be correct.
@@mattstiefel4806 yes! I like how you worded the ending. I feel like I'm becoming more self aware yet that same awareness is somehow more frightening than being clueless. Now I understand my somewhat strange behavior/reactions but feel like the negative beliefs is so deeply ingrained that it's hard to break from it..
@@mattstiefel4806 and kudos to you for not giving in and doing what you must to break the curse!
i relate. check out Patrick Teahan on youtube. childhood trauma therapist. his videos are so helpful to me
What a talented and insightful doctor, whose giving free therapy that would cost 1000's of dollars in a private practice. Hats off to you. Thanks for helping me heal.
This is my mother in law exactly, she’ll ask me very politely if I wanna do something with her, if I say no she rages out, then apologizes the next day with a great excuse and guilts me into doing what she wants. She does everything you’ve listed I can’t stand her.
Just ended it with a narcissist yesterday he was my NIGHTMARE BEFORE CHRISTMAS
me too lol
Well done girls, now to try to learn what attracted you to them and make sure you know the signs for next time. X
Exactly what they are.Congrats on leaving🎉💪🏽
congrats
Jess, Kristen & Kerry - thoughts to you from afar. Onwards & upwards 👍
I was a widow when I met my Narc. He did all he could do to "help". Once I began dating him, he became a totally different person.
Exactly what my ex did to me
Good cautionary tale.
Thank you, ladies.
This is so true, all their gifts are with fanfare and have strings attached to manipulate, they take revenge if you don't perform as they deem acceptable and woe betide you feel actual joy away from them and are not destroyed - they will steal that joy immediately and try to crush you for the privilege! They hoodwink many, but with discernment wise ones feel their energy is 'off'. Thank you Jesus for saving me.
This describes my mom. I've tried to point it out to other family members and even my friends but no one else sees it. I was always met with hate by her until I learned to fawn and praise her all the time. Only a few years ago I started to catch on to the fact that she seems to lack real empathy. Everything is all about her and she finds pets, "friends" and family members who "need her help" to feel good about herself in comparison. She's done her best to make me dependent on her but I have to step away and let her sit with her own feelings for once. She'll probably just find someone else to fix and depend on her instead 🤷♂️
This video lends clarity to the relationships I have had - those that preyed upon me (and I was perfect prey because I had been groomed by my mother my whole life) - that led me to feel confused by their care, realizing now that I was a pawn. The confusion was actually an alert to the disingenuousness of their intention, but I could never pinpoint why. I am now rewinding my life and am able to recognize those people who looped me into their web, then discarded me when I sensed disingenuousness and did not play the narcissistic supply role as they desired (which I of course interpreted as rejection, and was left thinking: " what's wrong with me?"). I am stronger than I knew and this helps me in learning how to better love myself.
Mr. Reid, thank you. I started going to therapy and canceled my appointment for today, this would have been my third one. I listened to myself and canceled because deep inside I feel that my therapist is in this just to make money. My last appointments brought me nothing. Your videos are so well described, you are so gentle and articulate. I’m learning more with you than I think I’d ever learn from my therapist. Understanding what was or is going on, why I feel the way I do, really helps me step back and understand that this is/was not my fault. From there, I can start healing and working at rebuilding my thought pattern and ultimately leave the narsistists mental and emotional grasp that is, in my opinion, what keeps survivors from moving forward. Again, thank you.
Nice joooob
You just described my entire childhood, even the way Christmas went. We always knew it wasn’t really about us. I had a role to play of grateful child, regardless of how I actually felt. It didn’t matter if mom had caught you alone and said something horrible right before. Dry those tears and get out here and act grateful for every crumb.
My sister is like this, it’s toxic. She has everyone wrapped around her finger.
I feel you. I have the same issue and it's so draining. Refusing unwanted 'help' results in outbursts of rage or power play, manipulating relationships with other family members. Accepting makes me feel weird because instead of getting actual help or even just being heard she seems to give a very superficial fix or whatever SHE thinks I should want/need. That's not what relationships should be based on.
Mayan Magic. Mine too, but I’ve got 3 of them! I’ll swap! LOL!
@@daniellecoffey6836 Had the same situation with my sister.
I've suffered about this all my life. I have cried, pegged, sought for help. Nobody has helped because everything looks so fantastic.
Pegged?
Glad I saw your video in my playlist. I usually associate narcissism with self absorbed types, so wondered why I was feeling so drained being "helped" by someone who I thought was a good friend. I am going through a number of challenges with health, moving, decisions about pets, locations, etc, and she went from encouraging me to move to her state to way overstepping. I started to dread her texts and unasked for advice which had descended into shaming questions: "You haven't done such and such YET?" She scrambles my actual priorities as if she knows better. Any interaction with her and I feel like I am incapable of deciding what to eat for lunch 🙂 So thank you for this...
It's ALWAYS about them setting the narrative. I fell for this just this past week. It's really, really hard not to be manipulated into old patterns, even with minimum contact.🥴
I have had many emotional responses to your videos, but this one made me wince. This is exactly what attracted me to my future husband, that he publicly rescued me from a humiliating situation when I was twenty. In front of hundreds of people, he saved the day. I had no way of predicting that the day after we were married, three years later, he would slap me across the face, no way of knowing that for the next 43 years he would go far out of his way to publicly humiliate me. There are tears in my eyes again. Your teachings ring so true, they always make me cry.
This is scarily accurate. My gosh. He adopted 3 kids and has such rigid rules did for them but when he lets his guard down he has criticisms for them all. Their flaws if you will. He gives the impression he is so wonderful but I know he secretly loathes himself. He was so tight assed. Always taking from me and never giving back. All the women he’s met have left him and he can’t even wake up to himself. Others cannot see it but because I sadly had prior experience I was fooled for a while and then realised it was actually the worst kind of narcissism. Thank you.
This is exactly like the man I just ended things with. He brags about adopting his first wife’s two children constantly. The first red flag should have been how he claimed they changed his life so much while in the same breath he said he wasn’t a present father figure to them. He’s also very involved in his community & employees a lot of people. He thinks he’s a saint for employing women and people of color, but in his personal life these are the people he’s abused the most. He’s 50+ and still chasing external validation. He only wands young people around who idolize him for being a “good” business man and will seek him out for guidance. He doesn’t have a single person around him that’s his age. Only teens to 30 somethings who need a leg up in life. It’s really sick.
@@MsNaturalTresses he sounds like this guys twin. Always trying to get his young female staff to go running with him. He’s 60 They are in their twenties. He’s always telling them how to run their lives. He’s really creepy.
Thank you for sharing this. I wish there were more safe places to talk about this kind of stuff.
My ex just passed away, and he was one of many adopted children of a man who I am 99% certain is a deeply wounded narcissist. The adoptive father is also very involved in the community, needing to believe he's a saint... I loved my ex because I saw the pain that lived in him as he was suffering through it... this 60+ old man chasing around a ~40 grown man, trapped in the cycle of saving him from himself. I have empathy for the unfortunate circumstances that created that relationship, but I do not overlook how the wounds were passed on to the next generation, because it needs to stop. I could relate to my ex for some very good reasons, i.e. on the basis of that very pain. I gave what conscious-making understanding I could and then I let him go, with no regrets.
Love and prayers to my ex, who it wasn't his fault his relationship to his own soul was discarded so early in his life. May he be at peace now 🌺
@@gunstigvogel3419 powerful post ✍🏻Glad your healing 🙏🏻
Sophie that sounds fucking AWFUL. I never knew of this either. How did you deal with the subtle (they think) smear? I ve not said anything locally, but don't know if I should. That must ve been a horrid compromise once you saw behind the mask. It's quite a journey learning all of these types of toxic behaviours are really out there seeming kind. Nuts. Dingwall 🏴✌🏻❤️
Oh CRAP!!! I'm seen as a LOST CAUSE!?!? I see it clearly now.
I'm relieved to realize that I wasn't "crazy" or ungrateful for the "help". I kept trying to figure it out. Nobody does THAT much for...nothing....and also this person does just what you said. Refuses any help in return and speaks unkindly about others she's "helped". Aaaaw, how saaaaad. P.S I like your bull.
You're really good at this, please continue to put out this much needed awareness. Great delivery!
Thank you very much for the feedback. I appreciate it.
I second that. Thank you 🙏❤️
I began to notice this in my narcissistic mother when she'd look at my basic medical and educational needs, scream "It's not fair to me to have to take care of you when your father won't" after she'd married and divorced a deadbeat, and make me pay dearly for every bit of care while parading herself as a martyr to my having any needs at all - and yet, drop huge amounts of money on cosmetic surgery, and fight tooth and nail every step I made towards autonomy.
It was so self-contradictory and abusive that it took me a while to realize that it was intentional and strategic. Such a narcissist will covertly break the supports in other people's lives, seize control of the situation via the repair bill for the damage they did, and then parade their image. They need to be needed, and they actively hate autonomy and empowerment. Engulfment, enmeshment, and economic abuse are the terms for the kind of abuse that result from this.
Your last paragraph really hit home... truer words have never been spoken.
This makes so much sense...this is why I have such a fear of accepting help and care hopefully this insight will help me gain the ability to learn how to be more open to that or at least be able to talk about it and find out if that person is safe. You can kinda tell when it's genuine for the most part... usually there's some rage or impatience like you say beneath the surface always brewing when the caretaking is more for them than it is for you. I also find that the caretaking feeds their superiority complex and used as a way to control you. I experienced sharing my mental health issues and that being used against me like I was told they were getting worse/increasing when they weren't...imagine wanting to make someone think they are going crazy so you could be the one to "help" them 😣
@@serenitysmith352he's talking about himself justifying hurting you by warning you. Then he will say he's "teaching" you a lesson you needed
What an oxymoron! I did experience something similar with someone at my church. She was all ready to serve and give but I found out there was fine print at the bottom. Behind closed doors, when the important people weren’t looking, was eye-opening with her.
You have described my mother!!!
Mine as well. To a tee. Thank you for making this video. I have learned a lot.
Eye opening!
The grand gestures make you feel so special and loved! But they come with a hidden price tag.
If I had a different opinion or complained, I was " punished" with the silent treatment.
Withholding affection,
triangulating me with the goldenchild, and projection were the famous tools used to make me cry.
Once again, I am floored by the way the narcissist is referred to with a lack of compassion. Isn't the narcissist also a victim? Do they not deserve empathy or sympathy for their own struggles? My narcissistically abusive father was scapegoated on a grand scale. His needs were not met. How was he supposed to be anything else? If the narcissist is coming from a deep inner sense of worthlessness, why is this not seen as something to be concerned about? Jay keeps emphasizing that the inner sense of worthlessness is the root cause, yet I do not hear him addressing the narcissist with any compassion or invitation to healing. We do not know what to do when we are broken. Sometimes we do not even know that we are broken. It's absolutely tragic in the most dramatic way. If the person feels worthless and they unconsciously engage in reactive behaviors to compensate, why is that not to be seen as a very sad and unfortunate thing? It's all tragic. In the bullying conversations they talk about how some victims become bullies. They are "victim-bullies" as opposed to the victims and the bullies. There is also the entire domain of spectrum diagnoses where certain children are predisposed to predatory behavior and some to the vulnerability that attracts the predator child. It's like chemistry. I think I am an altruistic narcissist in that I have always gravitated to the broken people. Whole and sane people make me feel awful. They pick up on all the ways you are not right right and remind you of it. Why would you want to be around them? And they are not all alright! They often have high opinions of themselves for wrong reasons. Society is a bitch to navigate.
On the other hand.........why am I always attracted to narcissists (and hoarders)? I had a narcissistic friend who I felt had adopted me precisely because he saw me as broken and wanted to fix me. He set a sort of limit above which I could not rise because it felt like he needed to me to stay in that place of brokenness. This person helped me a lot!!!!!! But he also made me feel like shit and was blind to who I was as a person. I was like a pet that is not supposed to be able to talk so there is no requirement to ask for their opinions and ideas. He did most of the talking. When I said something he changed the subject. So frustrating. I needed him when I had no one. He showed me a lot about how to be in the world. And then he cut off my feet, figuratively. Finally I cut him off.
I relate.
I got it from my Mom.
I know her story.
It excuses where she got it from.
It doesn't excuse what was done to me.
I'm resolving now to do _better_ and be _more_ honest and supportive than she was.
Because, even now... _yes,_ I'm that petty.
I wear my heart on my sleeve, and I will *continue* to be the "therapy friend," conscious or otherwise.
Just because it hurts? Doesn't mean I get to stop.
They are never kind for kindness sake. They always want something in return. There is always a silent contract that the recipient is not aware of until later.
I have learned to say 'if you expected something for (whatever it was they did) you should have told me right away. Instead you made a silent contract without my consent"
Once your eyes are wide open you really realize what you have gone through. When getting a hug feels like hugging a towel...that was never Love.
☮️💕
This is my Mom. She always needs to feel like the perfect parent and the most kind/nurturing/generous person and be praised, or we're acting spoiled/entitled/ungrateful. I have AuDHD and was chronically ill growing up and my Mom loved being my advocate, yelling at teachers and going to every doctor's appointment with me to garner sympathy. She would praise me so much to others, but would also pity me and make me feel like I was defective. She constantly expressed worry that she "did something wrong" when she raised me or when I was in the womb. Every time we went out in public she would pick at my clothes and make me stand up straighter, often making me go back inside to change or get my sister to pick my clothes. She would also come into my room without permission and angrily clean it and act furious whenever I was late or forgetful. I became too scared to wear pajamas or sleep too long because of my parent's reactions, and when they DIDN'T abuse me for my poor executive functioning and fatigue from disability they expected high praise at what a good job they were doing and how understanding they were. I've felt like such a burden my whole life, a weirdo, defective, slobby, overemotional. But she loved me being disabled because she could make me wholly dependant on her, unable to leave, and get constant sympathy and praise from her colleagues and my doctors. I'm just starting to realize that these messages I've believed might not be true. These videos have helped me so much, so thank you.
💙💙💙
The holidays are painful. My mother has destroyed my relationships with everyone. She wanted me all for herself because i have the caring heart . she tells them to leave me alone since i was 10. I don't know 6 siblings , but took care of her oldest son since the age 18. She is the most hateful lady i have ever known , she thinks she smart , she thinks she controls other , especially me with her mind . Im playing back and leaving her alone
Disconnect...each day is freeing your soul to find yourself again. Merry Christmas ☮️💕
Oh hell, those mandatory displays of gratitude are still expected. I felt it since early childhood. It has taken me way too long to recognize that the pathological behaviour and abuse, and to put a name to it. I now feel permanently stuck.
_Thanks,_ Mom.
My mother . I grew up in foster care , she likes to think she was this loving spiritual mother , she was violent and abusing
I can relate ❤️
my mother but not in foster care
This is the best description I've heard. Both of my parents are like this. In fact one year they gave gifts to everyone except my nephew, because they felt he never showed enough appreciation for any gifts they gave him.
Goody-two shoes, self righteous know-it-alls.
= false persons.
^ fightin' words, but cool ones.
This hit me right in the guts. I feel like throwing up. My heart is clenching and my legs tensed up and I’m also aware that 750 something people have left comments about relating to this. It’s rough. I’m 62 and my dad passed away at 97 a couple years ago now and I eventually realized he was a narcissist but when you Dr Reid described being kind only as a show it totally landed. Only cared for show. I can always pull myself together and get ok-ish to live life but sometimes the unaddressed stuff gets shuffled and ugh. Feels really….hurts. It hurts. So yeah. I feel for us.
I wish you the best. My mom is an altruistic narc too. I went no contact 3 months ago.
I once had a friend that was like this. She suffered with BPD in the past but had recovered over the years after intensive therapy. But she was still narcissistic and would say she cared and showed she cared in front of people so it was hard to prove how she would put me down over and over again in private. Attempt to gaslight me, incredibly irritable when I didn't give back to her in a way that she deemed equal or more than, took advantage of me repeatedly. By the end of it, I had so many anxiety attacks after spending time with her that I had to say goodbye.
I am currently trying to leave my narc wife. She does this without needing an audience , well I am her “captive” audience. If I don’t validate and recognize every little everyday thing she does “ for me”, look out.
This is absolutely spot on! I had a very hard time saying what type my narc is and it’s this. He has also said that he feels under appreciated. That he was less than. Such a joke.
Maria Scalone,your pretty smile can make the news!
The saintly woman that tirelessly ran the local soup kitchen for the homeless, but rarely cooked a family meal for her own children.
Are you aware that domestic violence perpetrators who are men get custody of their children far more often than other divorcing men who care for their children enough to let them continue to be cared for by their main care giver? A narcissistic domestic violence perpetrator is often deterrmined to get sole custody of their biological children no matter what it costs them or anybody else including their chidlren. When a divorcing man (or woman) is often withholding joint custody access to their estranged wife (or estranged husband) it is not always clear evidence that the other parent wants to be neglectful of their children or that they are a terrible parent.
Yes they sure love helping people that they deem beneath them. It’s always to elevate themselves.
Thank you for this. I had a hunch that this was a form of narcissism and it was great to hear you define and highlight this Well done.
Power, insecurity, hate, money. In short that's what drives a narc. Any narc.
Spot on description on the altruistic narcissist parents shift in nature, when no audience there to applause them! -Living with this type of narcissist, is mind boggling and bone chilling to the core. Thank you so much for this channel!
I had a friend once who always went overboard with her telling me how much she cared when we would re-connect. The issue is that she would constantly disappear. Ghosting. Discard. Then a year or two later she'd pop back up out of nowhere.
🤷🏻♀️
Buh-bye.
You ever check on her to see if she's ok? Sometimes people are going through personal stuff, but others don't check on them because they close up because they don't want to bother anybody with their issues.
I have withdrawn from friends I cherish when I am in a lot of pain because I think I will only overwhelm them and be considered too needy. It has nothing to do with discarding them. Usually I will mention that i am facing something, and sometimes ask for help or small support, but not always.
I like your profile name. Starlings are beautiful 💖
I have a friend who I don't see but once a year. I work, live alone, and am spread too thin to see everybody I know.
Sounds like someone with depression or other issues which actually can look like narcissism too.
My mom all the way...she was a nurse too so you can imagine how much she's gotten away with. My story is similar to Gypsy Rose Blanchard's story but not exact. Thank God for my close relationship with God and for youtube to educate me on my situation. I will be just fine and so will the rest of you!
White blouses are the worst
A Scrub is scrub that won't get no love from me.
You make such a great point about baring the brunt of their rage if you don't show gratitude for them helping you. This is so helpful.
I think an easy way to tell is by measuring yourself snd how you feel helping somone. Does it feek nice, are there thoughts of expectations after besides a "thank you" or a smile. Most people who are genuine do things without thinking because it feels good and they like to see others happy. Besides mutual love and support, there's no strings attached.
Thank you for this information... It helps in my path of healing.... Bless you!
Thank you for your feedback. I am very glad that you found it helpful. Best of luck.
I love that you mentioned the rule making and breaking to serve the narcissist agenda. I’ve experienced this so many times. A lot of the times these rules are unspoken, and they change as they see fit without warning. They make a rule and also don’t hold themselves to it; like you have to behave a certain way but not them, it’s a double standard. They have no integrity.
That was very good... this is one of those really obscure forms of narcissism for sure. Takes a long time to clarify things from this abuse but I am so grateful to the people (altruistic narcissists) in my life that showed me this particular dynamic not only in them but even as a reflection of myself as well. I can see how in my life I have done things for the sake of seeming superior in terms of care. In a way, going through this kind of abuse, I reckon, can make anyone really discover true authenticity in themselves. Something that helped me was being able to be the same person that I am when I am alone as the person I am with other people. Not just to come to accept the truth of me but also to share those things honestly with my relationships that I may have otherwise been ashamed of before. Pushing myself toward more and more self awareness and self acceptance every day has taken a lot of courage to receive the reflections from others with clarity and humility. However there is so much growth to gain from any person when we finally prioritize healing for ourselves. We only become so much stronger individuals and can re-learn self trust and trust in others. I really appreciated this video!
It's cause we were made people pleasers. It's the harvesting of gratitude, which we never got from our parents.
Awesome reflection!
@@essenceoflove1069 Thank you for the kindness! It is interesting to me in certain contexts we can understand each other, and in others we become very foreign. I appreciate it so much that my experiences make sense to others here and I am seeing now how important context can be.
@@marcharsveld2914 Definitely! We were absolutely brought up to feign humility in order to survive in society and so our self concepts are vastly underdeveloped and have no cognition of true humility. True humility is holding the weight of reality within your self-concept and caretaking it like a delicate child.
So enlightening. I didn't know about narcissistic abuse, covert or overt until only recently. My narc mother was definitely overt, malignantly overt. Now I see my first husband was an altruistic narc. His mother was a narcissist, father the enabler, sister the scapegoat. He used to say to me and others behind my back, that I had trust issue because of my childhood abuse. I couldn't understand why I was supposedly loved so much by such a great husband but felt so bad. Now it all makes much sense! Thankfully I chose to believe my feeling over his gaslighting.
This is so right on target. Thank you.
What's the difference between narcissistic collecting lost causes and a codependent running around rescuing people?
Interesting question
I'd like to know the answer, too.
As I've thought about this and listened again, it's in the motivation. They both do it for a sense of worth, but the codependent doesn't need gratitude, recognition or approval. At least that's how my over caretaking works which is pretty codependent. I do like seeing the results though.
Hmmmm, I am the adult child of narcs, and before meeting and living with a very healthy, assertive, honest, kind friend, I assumed that I was supposed to read other peoples minds and that they were supposed to read mine; I was terrified of ever having to express direct anger to anyone, getting angry felt very vulnerable and "mockable"; to get my own needs met, I would do all sorts of unsolicited "favors" for someone to "save up on them," so that if I needed their help, (in my mind) they "couldn't" say no.....if someone DID say no, I would flip from the frenzied "generosity" into icy, punitive silent treatment. I know-- yuck! At the time, all of this was entirely unconscious on my part, and terribly unhealthy. But over time, he helped me to see that my expecting mindreading was not healthy or fair, and he himself was so forthright and accepting about all feelings that I learned how to be more forthright myself. I think SOMETIMES we can unlearn some narcissistic traits, behaviors and assumptions?
It's all from childhood trauma. One becomes a narc, another a codependent.
You are so intuitive. This was so validating. Made me think of all the love bombing with the heart emojis and "useful" links that my mom would send me, as well as all of her advice and excessive "concern".
This is my family - mother, aunt, grandmother - to a friggin’ T. I’ve learned this, after having my mother be my “caretaker,” for the last 7yrs, due to becoming disabled/homebound. To which, ALL of my health issues? Result of Cushing’s Syndrome, symptoms misdiagnosed, beginning at the age of 6; from long-term exposure to cortisol, due to living in such a stressful environment.
This is my father. My mother is a covert narcissist. With my mother it was obvious but it was not that obvious with my father. My parents were divorced and my father played hero to the situation. I noticed with my father he was fine helping me when I had issues and would say he just wants respect but whenever I developed in anyway that he was not involved he was emotionally unavailable. Respect is earned. I did not take my inheritance because his help was damaging my soul and making me weak. When family members (cousin's) were toxic towards me I found myself in a situation where I was blamed by my father. Narcissism operates in a family structure. Who would of thought that generosity could be weaponised.
Wow- this is my mum!
This year was the first Christmas I’ve had no contact with her and apart from the peace of not having to talk to her (and my narcissistic dad), I felt so much more relaxed than ever before. I realized that in fact I have always dreaded Christmas and birthdays because of the gifts. She would make a big deal of asking if I’d received the gift and whether I liked it and give me the story around buying it. And I always have to like it and make a show of thanking her. If I didn’t I was ungrateful and nasty. The one year it really made me laugh was when she sent some treats to my cat (who she liked more than me). He didn’t like them and I made the mistake of saying that and she got upset. Really? Over a $2 packet of cat treats? Who gives a crap whether the cat likes them or not? Does that really define somebody’s sense of importance? To her it did and probably still does.
Thank you for highlighting that the guilt and fear I feel around being given something- anything- is not normal. I am working on feeling I deserve gifts from people who love me. People who really love me.
This video is like the sun rising and shining it's light on a dark landscape. Thank you!
Thank you so much for your explannation of my confusing and painful 8 year relationship. He was so superior and always trying to make me over for my own good. A real Mr nice guy who was studying to be a life coach. No one believed me when I told them about his rages and temper tantrums behind closed doors.
I just went for a walk and was thinking about these types of people. I loved that you mentioned the fake friendships. I once had a “friend” who I realized was only my “friend” because I made her look “good” because she thought of me as a charity case. She even talked about how she was doing such a good deed by being someones bridesmaid because that person has no other friends and she felt sorry for her. So she was pretending to be peoples friends. I thought at the time, maybe this person thinks you are friends because you say YES to things like being her bridesmaid! It was so sad how she was deceiving this person for her own personal image under the guise of helping.
These are the kinds of people they look for. They bring them in as "projects" so to speak. His primary source came to him sadly over weight, suffering from MS, just recently divorced and unhappy with her life.. Took her for every last cent she had. She lost weight and was fooled into believing if it had not been for him shed be dead or what ever. He becomes the big hero!!!!! and she looks up to him like an abusive God. She will never be good enough, for ever his project.
🎯
It's so difficult and draining
I couldnt pin point what this kind of behavior was but i knew something just didnt sit right .
My sister always helps out people without them asking and then she throws it in their face whenever she gets angry wtf is that ?
When you get angry is different, different one shows up, the one who probably she fights against. Sometime stress and lack of recognition can cause it. I bet when she calm down she still help them.
They do that when their “grandiose” persona feels threatened. They don’t take responsibility for anything, so if anyone points out something that wasn’t okay, their fragile ego gets hurt. When their fragile ego gets hurt, they’ll start throwing in your face all the things “they’ve done for you,” and how you should be more grateful to them, instead of addressing the issue and taking responsibility for their actions.
@@Chuleta_9 You are describing some cases, they are not all the same, psychology is too intricate to put a label like you do to everyone who act like that. When some awareness lights up in people things can change, but still when they get hurt they still can trow on you what they did, it do not mean is they fault, it can be the other way.
@Jennifer Green :)
As a retired psychotherapist coping with narcissistic family members, it’s really helped me to have a check up on all this fun! 😂
Wow! You nailed it! You gave a very interesting and informative analysis that is a hauntingly accurate description of the altruistic narcissists I know. It all makes sense now. 🤔
I just went for a walk and was thinking about these types of people. I loved that you mentioned the fake friendships. I once had a “friend” who I realized was only my “friend” because I made her look “good” because she thought of me as a charity case. She even talked about how she was doing such a good deed by being someones bridesmaid because that person has no other friends and she felt sorry for her. So she was pretending to be peoples friends. I thought at the time, maybe this person thinks you are friends because you say YES to things like being her bridesmaid! It was so sad how she was deceiving this person for her own personal image under the guise of helping. Very inauthentic and true manipulation.
Yesterday being Christmas.. I don’t even care about holidays, anymore - not until I have my own family. No matter my efforts, it always goes bad. In fact, the less effort I put in - the better it seems to go. Meaning, the worse I look - by not caring about such important “family” events - the better they look, by way of their “caring” and gift-giving efforts. Which, makes them happy. It took me moving away and taking months of cognitive behavioral therapy trainings - to figure out that my unexplainable feelings towards my family were there for very valid reasons..
Thank you for this video. My dad was one and I was in a ten year relationship with one which I left three months ago. He knows I’m financially stable and literally have no one so he’s waiting for me to come back begging him for forgiveness. I thank God for saving me from that even if I’m struggling financially right now. Never ever going back