What I find the hardest is stop treating yourself as your narcissist parent did. Feels like even if you have no contact, they are still in your brain and their messages keep reminding you that you cannot evolve, have your own feelings, progress in live, etc,. Erasing your narcissist parent opinions about yourself is a tough one; sometimes you don't even realize your decisions, actions, paterns, fears are not actually yours but their recordings in your mind.
I can never escape my father’s horribly degrading messages. He started calling me “slut” when I was about fourteen, when I had never had a boyfriend. I did become somewhat promiscuous, which causes me to think that he was right and that I let him down. People talk about looking forward to meeting their loved ones in the next life. I am terrified that I will meet my father. But someone please explain to me why people like to say things like, “You have no self-confidence!” or “You have such low self-esteem” in such derogatory tones as if it is my fault? For years I thought it was my fault and struggled to overcome it. My ex-husband had a right royal good time for ten years rubbing it my face. Of course, I married a predatory sex-addict who managed to convince me that it was my lack of trust that caused him to behave that way. I only learn more and more, which causes greater and greater despair. It was so degrading the first time a professional told me that I was an abused wife.
@@fancynancylucille Yes. Exactly. It is not your fault. At all. The abused person continues to get blamed for the abuse they suffered & still suffer from - i read a book called "Between Parent and Child" by Haim Ginott. it really helped me.
@@kimlec3592 I feel like I'm looking for the grial, some kind of dream only watched in movies or read in books. Books, they have always been a refuge and dissociation and the most pleasant one... without getting in trouble.
I was the middle of three boys and the Cinderella, being the middle forgotten invisible one, the scapegoat, hah maybe also being gay (not yet out then until as an adult graduating college and moving-getting away, but they sensed it which was another reason to make me the bad, weird one), Just so incredible how they can make one kid -out of three- do 98 per cent of the servant work- whereas the older also narcissist like parents, he was the jock so too busy for house or yard work and then the younger was the "baby" and too spoiled and coddled to be asked to do anything, why bother since me the designated Cinderella would dot it. I am now in my 60's so this childhood ptsd of five plus decades ago is still so clear and painful. Also I am a retired school teacher of 35 years and I think nowadays with more awareness of child abuse and child neglect and trauma if I found out a student in my class was abused, neglected, scapegoated, Cinderella'd as I was I am pretty sure I would be tempted to or even required to report it to CPS Children's Protective Services as child abuse. Best of luck and healing to you.
I also taught 3rd graders with literacy issues b4 I went to grad school. Many of these kids were being severely neglected and worse. I so wanted to give them my personal contact info in case they ever needed help or jusy wanted support, but I was forbidden from doing that. A parent could prosecute me for it & likely would have. I still worry about them all the time.
Jay - I agree with others here that you manage to clarify the scapegoat’s dilemma with empathy, and in a way that is granular and concise. I also appreciate your calmness and economy of words. Confusion and self doubt are two things I continue to wrestle with most. You spell out the insidiously toxic dynamics in a way that is extremely validating. Thank you.
This will be very stream of consciousness but completely empirical just as empirical as your comment, so forgive me in advance :) As I am sure you are no doubt aware of, are living in a time where abuse & its relationships with crime & untreated mental illnesses that make people abusive can no longer be ignored. The intelligence of our species pre-exists & has to predominate in order for us to survive & to be free & even freer, to free others & to gain insight into the human condition & how all of us can compensate for how disabling being a victim is & can be & that these behaviors are a direct reflection of our species as a whole, especially as scientists. This leads us to inevitably becoming even more self-correcting & intelligent & authoritarianism is replaced with empiricism & science, as you say empathy & the creativity to reject homogeneity because it is irrational, it is enforced, silence is enforced. We are starting to figure out how to cure mental illnesses including the ones that make us abusive & many of these individuals will be able to develop a working conscience, apologize, compensate their victims & become trusted members of society. Many abusers have brain tumors & or a history of abusers as one just amazing commenter in a previous video put a long the lines of "transgenerational abuse" & trauma. We are also developing an entirely new economy because so much of our economy is based on selling products that satisfy a cultivated & sadistic desire to neglect & abuse others including strangers, Broomberg & Chanarin argue convincingly that it is the camera that develops prejudice, any wonder then why natives hesitated to have their picture taken & how later ppl mock & minimize their existences with even more bias by accusing them of being "primitive" or equally violent as we are, when it is obviously our own blind hypocrisy & scales of undressed sickness all around. From the day we are born life is a problem & this is actually the most profound & beautiful thing about life. You cannot have a trajectory or exist unless it is documented, we know this now & hopefully the results will keep lining up more with statistical experientially & an ability to process & listen instead of obsolete forms of consumer culture "listening to the voices that sick people hear inside their heads' that lead them to have sexual intercourse with their children, beat their children, force their children into poverty, blame their victims for all their problems, attempt to use sadism & cruelty & lies to ruin their lives & not realize that all of their records, financial, criminal, etc reflect that they are not only abusing the law but breaking it & that they are not only abusing you but everyone. We can have even more freedom & free love in society & equip children to arrest & sue their parents (like the Menendez brothers is Princeton helped them) just as long as people have consent & are given more space not less (he addresses the fact that healthy people ned space like to be a blank to be left alone to be invisible even passive sensors would/could be able to help us be protected protect each other when we need to be alone) . Your observation is so inspiring to me because Mr Reid is giving us all the tools to get ready for a freer society with the end of war & less culpability & a world where there is no shame or punishment in asking how you are wrong & in providing proof & facts & & if you can correct yourself to be able to do so & for no-one to take away your right to be wrong or your right to be heard even if it is through passive surveillance of records intended to universally protect our rights, Elijahs list.
He also said a few times "that this is not accepted or normal in larger soceity" & I think that as victims we never knew that so we had no idea "Do other parents rape & burn their chidlren too?" no this is not accepted but remember we had a 400% increase in child & domestic violence including female perpetrators in the pandemic first & no one did anything they still are now, no riots, this fell off the radar that police & medical ppl then have to cope with the increase in abuse-.. Then- there was a riot over a man who unapoligetically abused a preganant women not even considering the trauma done to her she was erased the way narc victims are erased this sickness has no age race or gender. If you pointed this out ppl accuse you of being racist. So then the police had th uptick in abuse, the riots piled on top & then-- the peole who support the right to rape & beat their kids like the menendez's did to their sons rioted at the capitol. Policing comes from academia it is a science. Domestic violence has been proven to be the root cause of terrorism. Imagine what things would be like if ppl researched changing policing (which only recently protects victims rights & still working to do this better) & had peaceful riots because *many of them were abusing their children & partners* & communicated with law enforcement directly about how to empower themselvs when they feel a criminal parent is in their & their chidren's midst, in their communities. Dr Reid knows we are all going to converge with AI.
I see this video is over a yr old now (3/6/23) but you would be great on PBS. I think you would be a huge PBS figure as Wayne Dyer was and as Deepak Chopra was. I was on air at one of our largest PBS stations & got to meet Wayne Dyer when he came to our quarterly fund raising live broadcast. That was on my bucket list. People need this quality of insight desperately. This field is drowning in mediocrity & your understanding is exceptional. I am blown away several times while watching every one of your videos & I see others are, too. There are no therapists of your stature on YT. None. Zero.I feel very grateful & I see others are, too.
Boundaries w my narc mother were never honored. Had to go no contact for my own mental and spiritual well-being. 23 months no contact healing day by day. Thanks Jay!
“Setting a boundary defies the (persons) sense of entitlement…”. 🤯I didn’t know that. I’d go on to guess I bet having a vulnerable, heart felt and candid conversation with (a person) with the goal of conflict resolution also defies their sense of entitlement. It isn’t conflict resolution, it’s character recognition. And we don’t understand an aspect of their character. This energy could be why we “deserve” the lies- as punishment for the conversation- it offends (the person) that we’ve asked to discuss this aspect (character). Are they aware?
Thank you so much this really helped me understand the anxiety I have and cognitive dissonance when I try to limit my contact my NM. I can go like a bit of a pendulum in thinking oh maybe she’s not a narcissist as she has had times of showing kindness to me with gifts at Christmas and then the other extreme of being harshly critical and negatively compared against my sister or cousins etc or physically attacked and told that she hates me ! Things can be do confusing and especially because she acts like the poor victim and talks of her I’ll health a lot of the time and tells me how wonderful certain neighbours are in helping her, to guilt me into helping her more or just to make me feel bad!!
Although this is hard, it is better than being critiqued for breathing; tip toeing on eggshells knowing that I am putting in the work with myself realizing that I cannot fix this. It does hurt that a group of narcissistic people feel empowered by inflicting emotional abuse even at a distance. I will prepare a meal for myself with gratitude for my life, the gifts I have to offer and for how far I have come on this sole/soul journey. This does not mean that I am not sad though. Ironically my emotions would be perceived as manipulative instead of genuine.
You are such a sweet man. Thank you . I have never acknowledged this as small components to have broken down. I never ever dreamed anyone would understand . What a curse it is! I'm 54 this year and still feel all of these things. The last one of the 3, I do still treat myself like I deserve to be treated like that so I do it to myself😢. I am open to it as of this post. Thank you. Thank you 🌸🌸🌸🇦🇺🙋🏻♀️
I'm 30 years old and I've felt my whole life to act in a way not to anger my mother. It feels like she's still present and in control. Sounds crazy but seems common.
I am also feeling strongly that boundaries and allowing oneself to not share the narcissist's reality and to not attend to their needs are the key to recovery. And also attending to oneself instead, to ensure the safety and survival of oneself without being dependent on the narcissist. Wish you the best dr Reid, you explained the topic amazingly.
I ACTUALLY was shocked when I was talking to friends as a young adult...that THEY had NEVER been locked in a closet as a young child..I knew I would never do it...but I genuinely had NO idea it was not something that some parents do.. and some parents don't ( like spanking)
Dorothy when I was 6 or 7 & had opportunities to play at my little friends houses I thought their parents were being super nice to them (& me) as a put on because I was there. I thought all mothers hated their children, all parents were mean, degrading, abusive & contemptuous of their children. But I quickly figured out that I was in a very bad situation, a nightmare.
This is priceless advice Jay, great video. I'd give anything to have seen it 20+ years ago. 10 yrs no contact now, and I really wish it didn't have to be this way. It might have been avoided, if I'd had more tools back then to deal with the situation. Great work friend.
When I'm thinking ... I'm being over sensitive .... I'm being unkind .. I'm being rude ... I'm being unpleasant . To work out if I really am really being those things, I find a quick, practical tool is to ask myself, what would I think if a non narc friend of mine did my behaviour/thought my thoughts to me, could I say that they were being oversensitive, rude, selfish. This seems more reliable, because like so many of us, I was denied my feelings as a child and so identifying and listening to my feelings is a central part of my recovery. I can work with ideas related to other people better,, I'm getting to know, trust and love myself, in part thanks to work like this video, many many thanks.
Thank you so much for this video it really helped me understand I did the right thing recently - I said no to my 'best friend of nearly 20 years and she was not happy but I was fed up of her pushing my boundaries. I have gone no contact. All habits learnt from narc parents and sibling who discarded me as they do not approve of my partner choice. I am in my mid 30's and finally feel free and feeling no self doubt in myself to finally set boundaries, it took a lot of work to get here.
Lack of personal boundaries is such an important topic for survivors of Narcissistic abuse. Both my parents were Narcissistic and I didn't even know what personal boundaries were and as an adult felt that I wasn't worthy of boundaries. My older brother was severely Autistic and institutionalized at the age of 5. This was not that uncommon back in the early I was 2 years old at the time and my father forbid any mention of his name or any reminders of his existence. My Aunt told me they threatened that I would have to go away if I mentioned his name. I forgot that I had a brother until I discovered a photo when I was 8. I lived in a house of secrets and shame. Thank you for these videos, Jay and the opportunity to read comments and know that I'm not alone.
You describe things so clearly, it’s so validating, it’s like you’re in my head. Going through a lot of boundary setting in my family system and it has me feeling a lot of shame, that I’m too sensitive. My sister blew up on me about it , but I feel a lot better having stood up for myself calmly, and set a boundary on how I do not allow abusive language towards me (among other things) recovery is such a journey, but very worth it
Thank you for your insightful understanding of why boundaries are so problematic for those of us in recovery. I experience stark terror, and yet, many of the books I'm reading about narcissistic abuse and boundary setting act as if setting a boundary is a snap. Right. You've hit the major points that I struggle with. The bonds formed in these unhealthy attachments have required me to get a therapist who is proficient in understanding trauma. Thank you for your empathy and kindness.
Thank you for this video. I’m struggling with the core belief that I’m inherently bad and don’t deserve love. It’s caused me to be very lonely and disconnected from everybody, further exacerbating the belief. If nobody is reaching out then it must be me 🤷🏼♀️ Still trying to work through this one and it’s tough. Hats off to anyone who has a successful life after narcissistic parents 🎉
As I wake up, yes I am woke!, I have also realized the awful plight of my friend as a work scapegoat. She and I have definite issues with same entity, she as employee and me as a client. She was horribly mistreated by supervisors and co workers. This included charged with wrongdoing. An attempt to silence a brave woman. She developed cancer following the ordeal. Kudos to my friend Jen! Bless you, lady🌛♥️
I asked the universe to provide me with some deeper healing and then stumbled upon your content. I have watched almost all your videos now and I feel a sense of clarity about where to go next. I'm in the process of re-discovering and reconnecting to myself :) Thank you for not only sharing your gifts of healing with the world, but also offering compassion, understanding and support for us survivors! I look forward to your weekly videos :)
Thank you so much for sharing this. I teared up a few times listening. I’m in the thick of everything you described, especially ambivalence as me going low contact with my parents has been highly distressing for my family of origin. You put to words so many concepts that I can’t articulate. I shared this video with some of my sympathetic siblings who very much want me to go back to “normal.” Thank you, and may God bless you for this brave work!
It's insane how much this is applicable to my situation. I have set very minimal boundaries with my mother and she is completely falling apart. It's not healthy for anyone. I know that she can tell that shes losing her grip on me, and I'm sad that she will never see that I would be here for her if she simply saw me as my own person and respected how I wished to communicate with her. She is doing this entirely to herself, I think all of us would rather have normal parents.
How I'd describe it is you think they want to be in a group with you and so you want to be in a group with them. But they don't actually want to be in a group with you, they just want attention and just like we don't see our phone or our microwave as a 'group member' but we use those items, they don't see us as a 'group member'. As they see it we give attention to them as our utility to them like a phone or microwave gives their utility to them. Edit: And I realise I went on to talk about their perspective...again! ha! The actual important issue is the hurt that comes from trying to be in a group with someone and you keep giving like they are there in the group with you but it's like you're the one doing the group thing wrong and because you have an instinct to be a good group member you try and chase after what you're doing wrong and to do it right. But it's just that they don't want to be in a group with you, they've just made it appear they want to but they've never really said or indicated they wanted that. So you get tricked into thinking they want a group, you extend toward them but they don't extend toward you because...well it was a trick and they were never interested in being in a group with you. In some ways they are all 'well you just started giving me stuff, is that my fault?', which is BS because they act in a way that gives the impression of wanting to be in a group (sorry to keep using that phrase but it's important), but in a way it is a key to a boundary on the matter, to actually check if the person wants to be in some sort of group with you. It can hurt that they don't, particularly in the case of parents, but if they don't then they don't.
I dont know where I read this, but your comment reminds me of a study where a bunch of unwed mothers who had been rejected by their families were tracked and studied. Interestingly, the women who has been roundly and frankly rejected by their families of origin were far quicker to recover and to go on to seek "second-chance family." The women who experienced rejection that was lied about-- subtler, more concealed rejection-- had a tougher time recovering from the family rejection.
An excellent, articulate comment. It describes my experience in a narcissistic family to a tee. It makes me think a lot about the role of shame. Shame seems like an invisible fuel that keeps the dynamic in play.
Jay is a very articulate, caring, knowledgeable therapist. These videos have been very informative to me. I'm in my 60's, a retired school teacher of 35 years, understand children and can sense Jay with his insight and empathy and obvious respect for children is a wonderful child psychologist and adult psychotherapist as well. Besides all that he is very well mannered, extremely pleasant to look at, has a pleasant voice to listen to which helps hold one's attention. Seems like a nice guy. I live in Santa Monica California, but if I ever by chance run into Jay in San Francisco (I go up there for a few days each summer, and also then go up sometimes to see a good friend further afar in northern CA in Humboldt) I would be honored to tell him what a caring, helpful guy he is, so bright- btw he graduated from Penn, so has to be super bright(I went to university in a neighboring state in NY at SUNY Stony Brook). His caring also shows in how he tells us often at the end to stay safe out there.
Mr. Reid, just want to express thanks for these videos. I appreciate the practical and insightful tips for recovering from narcissistic abuse. It's never not too late to figure out one's past and make a better life for oneself.
My primary feelings towards my mother were fear, disgust, repulsion, occasional sympathy. I viewed her as THE problem. Somehow I carried the hope and illusion that my father and brothers were 'just being passive'. I was rudely awakened when I found out my brothers colluded together trying to trick me into taking care of things that they themselves didn't want to take on. One brother simply ordered me like ordering a pig to eat family garbage; the other played the good cop. I realized my mother had won. She successfully cemented my scapegoat role in my family. It was a sobering WTF moment. I cut off contact with not only my family of origin but all the relatives. They were not innocent bystanders. They chose to sacrifice me to the cruel monster. It was the best decision of my life. Not only did it cut off the flow of toxicity, it became a source of empowerment whenever I thought about it. It takes time to recover from being mind-fvcked by those who were supposed to care about you. Narc parents are dangerous not only because they are predatory but they often co-op a toxic world wherever they go.
They say that Narcissists are illogical. But you have been the most logical, reasonable, rational, and brutally realistic person… thank you for expressing what fathers and brothers should be telling women.
Thanks again Jay for your enlightening video. Often I worry about my narc mother's feelings more than my own. I have been no contact with her for 3 years. Fear of retaliation from my 3 brothers and 1 sister who side with my mom. I'm trying to replace fear with hope for better relationships in my future.
It's mind-blowing that you understand and are Able to Convey this information in a way that is understandable, and in a way one can visualize - and follow the path - of what is Really happening TO the child - themselves - even when you are 61 - it can Still be happening - and you can Just Now be realizing it. And even though I have books and have been searching RUclips videos - none compare to these, for me - Thank you, Jay, for taking the time to put your understanding out here in RUclips Land - I don't know if you can realize how much you offer and are helping
Curiosity was sorely absent growing up. Unfortunately, this has dulled my sibs and my own natural curiosity particularly with one another. Seem more curious with outsiders
Thank you for making this video! The way you articulate the experience of having a narcissistic parent is honestly, a little eerie. Everything you talk about is very familiar but I’m also learning and it’s really helping me in therapy. I watch you every week. Thank you!
Jay thank you so much for the questions that survivors often ask at the end of your video. I have literally just been asking my therapist these same questions as I navigate setting boundaries with my family. This is one of the hardest things I’ve ever done but I believe in my heart it is the right thing. I’ve waited for years hoping and praying they might change but things are just getting worse with age and drug and alcohol use.
Thank you for sharing this insightful video. I just had to set a bourndary with a narcissist who is extremely manipulative. They are so good at pulling your strings. They instigate fights and blame their behavior on you. I learned not to engage with them and to walk away. I say that I will not tolerate it. Well, it turned out that after I set a boundary today I really started to honor my feelings. I felt my blood pressure rise just from being around the person and that was enough for me.
Your videos are top quality Jay. To highlight something like the ambiguity involved in self-protective decision making is priceless. Thank you for your work.
Please explain boundaries. What are normal boundaries? It seems we are supposed to know what they are. But to me they are very abstract. How do you know how to act with someone (mom) who just doesn't seem to want to be with you? Is that the point at which going no contact is the only option left? If your mom doesn't have time for you, it is very confusing to know how to relate to anyone else.
In what you said about straining to see real life from where you are, getting on your tiptoes... I relate to that too. In thinking about that, it seems to me the relationship with the narcissist is like that's the entire occupation of your mind is that relationship. And that's what you said later, that our perception of life is put to the side...
When you first meet a narc they are sweet and kind and do everything that they can to please you … I’m like that with the ones I love …. But Always…. It’s not just a ploy… I’m willing to compromise and sacrifice for them …. I’ll know when I meet my love because they’re going to show that back …. And “no” will not become a cut off … for love thereafter…. I have learned to move very slowly. If you intend to love someone forever than slowly and intentionally getting to know them is how love happens!
Very insightful, very understanding and profound. I think something about the dysphoria might help explain why I feel very uncomfortable setting boundaries with anyone. To my surprise, even though most of the time I get backlash, sometimes the boundary actually gets respected and that gives me hope and encouragement to continue to practice setting boundaries.
You’re a freakin life saver 🥺♥️ thank you so much for validating my feelings it’s basically exactly what I’m going through. Do you offer online therapy appointments? And price? Thank you so much 😊
narcissistic abuse from males 50 years later. Im trying ti work through why an individual can gets so in rage that the individual pounds his fists onto his desk, what causes a human to get that angry towards a female? Why? trying to understand what provokes that type of anger.😢
I have a thing I have done since childhood. I'm a lot better with it now. But I can find myself slipping back into it. When things go wrong or depression kicks back in. Amongst many other symptoms I developed a psychological biology man. Where all day every day I would constantly be explaining in a justifying way. Why I was doing what I was doing. No matter what it was. It could be as simple as buying sauce to make lasagna. I would in my head feel the need to talk to an imaginary threatening person. That was possibly me amalgamating many of the people who have psychologically abused me as a child. The purpose of the explaining was to try and sooth the threatening feeling. If a film portrayed it, I would have looked like a young boy so eager to please and be liked. By an angry threatening man following me around. Every activity had to be justified as if my life depended on it. I realise now it is because I am hated by my family. Always have been. I have a narcissistic mother who used to call an anti-mother a kid. I have a sadistic sister who I am her target for her sadistic supply. And an older sister who is psychopathic. The only difference between both sisters is the sadist is extremely personal the psychopath is completely none personal. She treats everyone as bad as she treats me. I've been no contact since 19 years old. I'm now 43. I've over come many of the internal battles it's given me. Been in a state of having to give my heart permanent CPR all my life. But I think the loneliness and isolation of my youth likely also contributed. But never being liked not just loved. But not being around people that ever valued me, were interested in me or liked me for anything. Is what I think has done it. Being hated as a default causes you to unconsciously feel you have to convince people to like you or keep you around. Like justifying your existence to a kidnapper who intends to kill you off.
I think it's emotional incest, plus I think he's sadistic. He bought a receiver and wanted to watch a movie. It was graphic x rated. Who does that with their daughter? He drives, socialises, etc but I'm wondering if its dementia? Plus his pathology. I tend to forget or blank this stuff out, its bazaar.
Nicey nice then come the apologies then the fists pounding his fists on the desk followed up by nicey nice only to aplogise and repeat the behavoir. Disturbing.
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What I find the hardest is stop treating yourself as your narcissist parent did.
Feels like even if you have no contact, they are still in your brain and their messages keep reminding you that you cannot evolve, have your own feelings, progress in live, etc,.
Erasing your narcissist parent opinions about yourself is a tough one; sometimes you don't even realize your decisions, actions, paterns, fears are not actually yours but their recordings in your mind.
I can never escape my father’s horribly degrading messages. He started calling me “slut” when I was about fourteen, when I had never had a boyfriend. I did become somewhat promiscuous, which causes me to think that he was right and that I let him down. People talk about looking forward to meeting their loved ones in the next life. I am terrified that I will meet my father. But someone please explain to me why people like to say things like, “You have no self-confidence!” or “You have such low self-esteem” in such derogatory tones as if it is my fault? For years I thought it was my fault and struggled to overcome it. My ex-husband had a right royal good time for ten years rubbing it my face. Of course, I married a predatory sex-addict who managed to convince me that it was my lack of trust that caused him to behave that way. I only learn more and more, which causes greater and greater despair. It was so degrading the first time a professional told me that I was an abused wife.
@ Cristina : Yes.
@@fancynancylucille Yes. Exactly. It is not your fault. At all. The abused person continues to get blamed for the abuse they suffered & still suffer from - i read a book called "Between Parent and Child" by Haim Ginott. it really helped me.
@@learningenglishthroughtran8540 Yes. Try to read book by Haim Ginott "Between Parent and Child". it really helped me. Good on you just for surviving.
@@kimlec3592
I feel like I'm looking for the grial, some kind of dream only watched in movies or read in books. Books, they have always been a refuge and dissociation and the most pleasant one... without getting in trouble.
Crumbs, yep. The boys were the more valued people in our home. The girls were the servants. I tend to dismiss my needs, learning to be kind to myself.
I was the middle of three boys and the Cinderella, being the middle forgotten invisible one, the scapegoat, hah maybe also being gay (not yet out then until as an adult graduating college and moving-getting away, but they sensed it which was another reason to make me the bad, weird one), Just so incredible how they can make one kid -out of three- do 98 per cent of the servant work- whereas the older also narcissist like parents, he was the jock so too busy for house or yard work and then the younger was the "baby" and too spoiled and coddled to be asked to do anything, why bother since me the designated Cinderella would dot it. I am now in my 60's so this childhood ptsd of five plus decades ago is still so clear and painful. Also I am a retired school teacher of 35 years and I think nowadays with more awareness of child abuse and child neglect and trauma if I found out a student in my class was abused, neglected, scapegoated, Cinderella'd as I was I am pretty sure I would be tempted to or even required to report it to CPS Children's Protective Services as child abuse. Best of luck and healing to you.
I also taught 3rd graders with literacy issues b4 I went to grad school. Many of these kids were being severely neglected and worse. I so wanted to give them my personal contact info in case they ever needed help or jusy wanted support, but I was forbidden from doing that. A parent could prosecute me for it & likely would have. I still worry about them all the time.
I am glad I found your channel. It helps me a lot. So thank you
Me three.;-)
Me four!
Jay - I agree with others here that you manage to clarify the scapegoat’s dilemma with empathy, and in a way that is granular and concise. I also appreciate your calmness and economy of words. Confusion and self doubt are two things I continue to wrestle with most. You spell out the insidiously toxic dynamics in a way that is extremely validating. Thank you.
This will be very stream of consciousness but completely empirical just as empirical as your comment, so forgive me in advance :) As I am sure you are no doubt aware of, are living in a time where abuse & its relationships with crime & untreated mental illnesses that make people abusive can no longer be ignored. The intelligence of our species pre-exists & has to predominate in order for us to survive & to be free & even freer, to free others & to gain insight into the human condition & how all of us can compensate for how disabling being a victim is & can be & that these behaviors are a direct reflection of our species as a whole, especially as scientists. This leads us to inevitably becoming even more self-correcting & intelligent & authoritarianism is replaced with empiricism & science, as you say empathy & the creativity to reject homogeneity because it is irrational, it is enforced, silence is enforced. We are starting to figure out how to cure mental illnesses including the ones that make us abusive & many of these individuals will be able to develop a working conscience, apologize, compensate their victims & become trusted members of society. Many abusers have brain tumors & or a history of abusers as one just amazing commenter in a previous video put a long the lines of "transgenerational abuse" & trauma. We are also developing an entirely new economy because so much of our economy is based on selling products that satisfy a cultivated & sadistic desire to neglect & abuse others including strangers, Broomberg & Chanarin argue convincingly that it is the camera that develops prejudice, any wonder then why natives hesitated to have their picture taken & how later ppl mock & minimize their existences with even more bias by accusing them of being "primitive" or equally violent as we are, when it is obviously our own blind hypocrisy & scales of undressed sickness all around. From the day we are born life is a problem & this is actually the most profound & beautiful thing about life. You cannot have a trajectory or exist unless it is documented, we know this now & hopefully the results will keep lining up more with statistical experientially & an ability to process & listen instead of obsolete forms of consumer culture "listening to the voices that sick people hear inside their heads' that lead them to have sexual intercourse with their children, beat their children, force their children into poverty, blame their victims for all their problems, attempt to use sadism & cruelty & lies to ruin their lives & not realize that all of their records, financial, criminal, etc reflect that they are not only abusing the law but breaking it & that they are not only abusing you but everyone. We can have even more freedom & free love in society & equip children to arrest & sue their parents (like the Menendez brothers is Princeton helped them) just as long as people have consent & are given more space not less (he addresses the fact that healthy people ned space like to be a blank to be left alone to be invisible even passive sensors would/could be able to help us be protected protect each other when we need to be alone) . Your observation is so inspiring to me because Mr Reid is giving us all the tools to get ready for a freer society with the end of war & less culpability & a world where there is no shame or punishment in asking how you are wrong & in providing proof & facts & & if you can correct yourself to be able to do so & for no-one to take away your right to be wrong or your right to be heard even if it is through passive surveillance of records intended to universally protect our rights, Elijahs list.
He also said a few times "that this is not accepted or normal in larger soceity" & I think that as victims we never knew that so we had no idea "Do other parents rape & burn their chidlren too?" no this is not accepted but remember we had a 400% increase in child & domestic violence including female perpetrators in the pandemic first & no one did anything they still are now, no riots, this fell off the radar that police & medical ppl then have to cope with the increase in abuse-.. Then- there was a riot over a man who unapoligetically abused a preganant women not even considering the trauma done to her she was erased the way narc victims are erased this sickness has no age race or gender. If you pointed this out ppl accuse you of being racist. So then the police had th uptick in abuse, the riots piled on top & then-- the peole who support the right to rape & beat their kids like the menendez's did to their sons rioted at the capitol. Policing comes from academia it is a science. Domestic violence has been proven to be the root cause of terrorism. Imagine what things would be like if ppl researched changing policing (which only recently protects victims rights & still working to do this better) & had peaceful riots because *many of them were abusing their children & partners* & communicated with law enforcement directly about how to empower themselvs when they feel a criminal parent is in their & their chidren's midst, in their communities. Dr Reid knows we are all going to converge with AI.
Totally agree and no one has done this in such a caring and sensitive and fully explaining way as he has.
Narcs get mad with boundaries, makes things worse.
Boundaries = being non-coercible . Thanks !
I see this video is over a yr old now (3/6/23) but you would be great on PBS. I think you would be a huge PBS figure as Wayne Dyer was and as Deepak Chopra was. I was on air at one of our largest PBS stations & got to meet Wayne Dyer when he came to our quarterly fund raising live broadcast. That was on my bucket list. People need this quality of insight desperately. This field is drowning in mediocrity & your understanding is exceptional. I am blown away several times while watching every one of your videos & I see others are, too. There are no therapists of your stature on YT. None. Zero.I feel very grateful & I see others are, too.
Boundaries w my narc mother were never honored.
Had to go no contact for my own mental and spiritual well-being.
23 months no contact healing day by day. Thanks Jay!
Healing day by day as well.
Thank you! You explain things in such an articulate and clear manner. It is very helpful!
“Setting a boundary defies the (persons) sense of entitlement…”. 🤯I didn’t know that. I’d go on to guess I bet having a vulnerable, heart felt and candid conversation with (a person) with the goal of conflict resolution also defies their sense of entitlement. It isn’t conflict resolution, it’s character recognition. And we don’t understand an aspect of their character.
This energy could be why we “deserve” the lies- as punishment for the conversation- it offends (the person) that we’ve asked to discuss this aspect (character).
Are they aware?
At times the only thing you can do is go no ontact .
Thank you so much this really helped me understand the anxiety I have and cognitive dissonance when I try to limit my contact my NM. I can go like a bit of a pendulum in thinking oh maybe she’s not a narcissist as she has had times of showing kindness to me with gifts at Christmas and then the other extreme of being harshly critical and negatively compared against my sister or cousins etc or physically attacked and told that she hates me ! Things can be do confusing and especially because she acts like the poor victim and talks of her I’ll health a lot of the time and tells me how wonderful certain neighbours are in helping her, to guilt me into helping her more or just to make me feel bad!!
Although this is hard, it is better than being critiqued for breathing; tip toeing on eggshells knowing that I am putting in the work with myself realizing that I cannot fix this.
It does hurt that a group of narcissistic people feel empowered by inflicting emotional abuse even at a distance.
I will prepare a meal for myself with gratitude for my life, the gifts I have to offer and for how far I have come on this sole/soul journey.
This does not mean that I am not sad though. Ironically my emotions would be perceived as manipulative instead of genuine.
You are such a sweet man. Thank you . I have never acknowledged this as small components to have broken down. I never ever dreamed anyone would understand . What a curse it is! I'm 54 this year and still feel all of these things. The last one of the 3, I do still treat myself like I deserve to be treated like that so I do it to myself😢. I am open to it as of this post. Thank you. Thank you 🌸🌸🌸🇦🇺🙋🏻♀️
I'm 30 years old and I've felt my whole life to act in a way not to anger my mother. It feels like she's still present and in control. Sounds crazy but seems common.
Does seem common.
I am also feeling strongly that boundaries and allowing oneself to not share the narcissist's reality and to not attend to their needs are the key to recovery. And also attending to oneself instead, to ensure the safety and survival of oneself without being dependent on the narcissist.
Wish you the best dr Reid, you explained the topic amazingly.
I ACTUALLY was shocked when I was talking to friends as a young adult...that THEY had NEVER been locked in a closet as a young child..I knew I would never do it...but I genuinely had NO idea it was not something that some parents do..
and some parents don't ( like spanking)
Dorothy when I was 6 or 7 & had opportunities to play at my little friends houses I thought their parents were being super nice to them (& me) as a put on because I was there. I thought all mothers hated their children, all parents were mean, degrading, abusive & contemptuous of their children. But I quickly figured out that I was in a very bad situation, a nightmare.
❤
This is priceless advice Jay, great video. I'd give anything to have seen it 20+ years ago. 10 yrs no contact now, and I really wish it didn't have to be this way. It might have been avoided, if I'd had more tools back then to deal with the situation. Great work friend.
When I'm thinking ... I'm being over sensitive .... I'm being unkind .. I'm being rude ... I'm being unpleasant . To work out if I really am really being those things, I find a quick, practical tool is to ask myself, what would I think if a non narc friend of mine did my behaviour/thought my thoughts to me, could I say that they were being oversensitive, rude, selfish. This seems more reliable, because like so many of us, I was denied my feelings as a child and so identifying and listening to my feelings is a central part of my recovery. I can work with ideas related to other people better,, I'm getting to know, trust and love myself, in part thanks to work like this video, many many thanks.
@Helen K. Thank you - I will practice what you describe. Looking forward to my cotinual healing!
Agreed Feelings are so important but ours are denied by telling us that we should not be so sensitive after being mistreated. That is right
I always felt guilty when I just couldn't bring myself to want to be included in their culture.
Thank you so much for this video it really helped me understand I did the right thing recently - I said no to my 'best friend of nearly 20 years and she was not happy but I was fed up of her pushing my boundaries. I have gone no contact. All habits learnt from narc parents and sibling who discarded me as they do not approve of my partner choice. I am in my mid 30's and finally feel free and feeling no self doubt in myself to finally set boundaries, it took a lot of work to get here.
Man everything said in this video resonates with me, feels like I have something to truly relate to, this is a special channel!
🌹♥️
Thank you for your short videos
♥️🌹
Lack of personal boundaries is such an important topic for survivors of Narcissistic abuse. Both my parents were Narcissistic and I didn't even know what personal boundaries were and as an adult felt that I wasn't worthy of boundaries. My older brother was severely Autistic and institutionalized at the age of 5. This was not that uncommon back in the early
I was 2 years old at the time and my father forbid any mention of his name or any reminders of his existence. My Aunt told me they threatened that I would have to go away if I mentioned his name.
I forgot that I had a brother until I discovered a photo when I was 8. I lived in a house of secrets and shame. Thank you for these videos, Jay and the opportunity to read comments and know that I'm not alone.
Wow.
You describe things so clearly, it’s so validating, it’s like you’re in my head. Going through a lot of boundary setting in my family system and it has me feeling a lot of shame, that I’m too sensitive. My sister blew up on me about it , but I feel a lot better having stood up for myself calmly, and set a boundary on how I do not allow abusive language towards me (among other things) recovery is such a journey, but very worth it
I can relate!
You are a GOD SEND!! THANK YOU!
Thank you for your insightful understanding of why boundaries are so problematic for those of us in recovery. I experience stark terror, and yet, many of the books I'm reading about narcissistic abuse and boundary setting act as if setting a boundary is a snap. Right. You've hit the major points that I struggle with. The bonds formed in these unhealthy attachments have required me to get a therapist who is proficient in understanding trauma. Thank you for your empathy and kindness.
Thank you for this video. I’m struggling with the core belief that I’m inherently bad and don’t deserve love. It’s caused me to be very lonely and disconnected from everybody, further exacerbating the belief. If nobody is reaching out then it must be me 🤷🏼♀️
Still trying to work through this one and it’s tough. Hats off to anyone who has a successful life after narcissistic parents 🎉
I agree hats off to anyone with a successful life after narcissist parents.
As I wake up, yes I am woke!, I have also realized the awful plight of my friend as a work scapegoat. She and I have definite issues with same entity, she as employee and me as a client. She was horribly mistreated by supervisors and co workers. This included charged with wrongdoing. An attempt to silence a brave woman. She developed cancer following the ordeal. Kudos to my friend Jen! Bless you, lady🌛♥️
It's like not being an active participant in one's own life
thank you
I asked the universe to provide me with some deeper healing and then stumbled upon your content. I have watched almost all your videos now and I feel a sense of clarity about where to go next. I'm in the process of re-discovering and reconnecting to myself :) Thank you for not only sharing your gifts of healing with the world, but also offering compassion, understanding and support for us survivors! I look forward to your weekly videos :)
Thank you so much for sharing this. I teared up a few times listening. I’m in the thick of everything you described, especially ambivalence as me going low contact with my parents has been highly distressing for my family of origin. You put to words so many concepts that I can’t articulate. I shared this video with some of my sympathetic siblings who very much want me to go back to “normal.” Thank you, and may God bless you for this brave work!
you're really a genius when it comes to this
Very informative and helpful. Just please keep doing these videos !!!!
It's insane how much this is applicable to my situation. I have set very minimal boundaries with my mother and she is completely falling apart. It's not healthy for anyone. I know that she can tell that shes losing her grip on me, and I'm sad that she will never see that I would be here for her if she simply saw me as my own person and respected how I wished to communicate with her. She is doing this entirely to herself, I think all of us would rather have normal parents.
I agree I wish that I had normal loving parents.
How I'd describe it is you think they want to be in a group with you and so you want to be in a group with them. But they don't actually want to be in a group with you, they just want attention and just like we don't see our phone or our microwave as a 'group member' but we use those items, they don't see us as a 'group member'. As they see it we give attention to them as our utility to them like a phone or microwave gives their utility to them.
Edit: And I realise I went on to talk about their perspective...again! ha! The actual important issue is the hurt that comes from trying to be in a group with someone and you keep giving like they are there in the group with you but it's like you're the one doing the group thing wrong and because you have an instinct to be a good group member you try and chase after what you're doing wrong and to do it right. But it's just that they don't want to be in a group with you, they've just made it appear they want to but they've never really said or indicated they wanted that. So you get tricked into thinking they want a group, you extend toward them but they don't extend toward you because...well it was a trick and they were never interested in being in a group with you. In some ways they are all 'well you just started giving me stuff, is that my fault?', which is BS because they act in a way that gives the impression of wanting to be in a group (sorry to keep using that phrase but it's important), but in a way it is a key to a boundary on the matter, to actually check if the person wants to be in some sort of group with you. It can hurt that they don't, particularly in the case of parents, but if they don't then they don't.
I dont know where I read this, but your comment reminds me of a study where a bunch of unwed mothers who had been rejected by their families were tracked and studied. Interestingly, the women who has been roundly and frankly rejected by their families of origin were far quicker to recover and to go on to seek "second-chance family." The women who experienced rejection that was lied about-- subtler, more concealed rejection-- had a tougher time recovering from the family rejection.
An excellent, articulate comment. It describes my experience in a narcissistic family to a tee. It makes me think a lot about the role of shame. Shame seems like an invisible fuel that keeps the dynamic in play.
I see what you are saying.
All rings very true, thank you
Jay is a very articulate, caring, knowledgeable therapist. These videos have been very informative to me. I'm in my 60's, a retired school teacher of 35 years, understand children and can sense Jay with his insight and empathy and obvious respect for children is a wonderful child psychologist and adult psychotherapist as well. Besides all that he is very well mannered, extremely pleasant to look at, has a pleasant voice to listen to which helps hold one's attention. Seems like a nice guy. I live in Santa Monica California, but if I ever by chance run into Jay in San Francisco (I go up there for a few days each summer, and also then go up sometimes to see a good friend further afar in northern CA in Humboldt) I would be honored to tell him what a caring, helpful guy he is, so bright- btw he graduated from Penn, so has to be super bright(I went to university in a neighboring state in NY at SUNY Stony Brook). His caring also shows in how he tells us often at the end to stay safe out there.
Thank you for a very insightful and supportive video.
Boundaries are everything 💕
Its like you know exactly what I lived through. Thank you so much. You've brought me a lot of solace.
Mr. Reid, just want to express thanks for these videos. I appreciate the practical and insightful tips for recovering from narcissistic abuse. It's never not too late to figure out one's past and make a better life for oneself.
Amazing insight . Thank you
My primary feelings towards my mother were fear, disgust, repulsion, occasional sympathy. I viewed her as THE problem. Somehow I carried the hope and illusion that my father and brothers were 'just being passive'. I was rudely awakened when I found out my brothers colluded together trying to trick me into taking care of things that they themselves didn't want to take on. One brother simply ordered me like ordering a pig to eat family garbage; the other played the good cop. I realized my mother had won. She successfully cemented my scapegoat role in my family. It was a sobering WTF moment. I cut off contact with not only my family of origin but all the relatives. They were not innocent bystanders. They chose to sacrifice me to the cruel monster. It was the best decision of my life. Not only did it cut off the flow of toxicity, it became a source of empowerment whenever I thought about it. It takes time to recover from being mind-fvcked by those who were supposed to care about you. Narc parents are dangerous not only because they are predatory but they often co-op a toxic world wherever they go.
I agree and I understand.
Thank you so much for your pure sincerity and depth of knowledge 🙏💗
Another video that helps me understand myself. Thank you for untangling the pain. These videos are so healing.
They say that Narcissists are illogical. But you have been the most logical, reasonable, rational, and brutally realistic person… thank you for expressing what fathers and brothers should be telling women.
This is wonderful, it solidifies many of my experiences and feelings, thank you for clarifying this it really helps!
Thanks again Jay for your enlightening video. Often I worry about my narc mother's feelings more than my own. I have been no contact with her for 3 years. Fear of retaliation from my 3 brothers and 1 sister who side with my mom. I'm trying to replace fear with hope for better relationships in my future.
It's mind-blowing that you understand and are Able to Convey this information in a way that is understandable, and in a way one can visualize - and follow the path - of what is Really happening TO the child - themselves - even when you are 61 - it can Still be happening - and you can Just Now be realizing it. And even though I have books and have been searching RUclips videos - none compare to these, for me - Thank you, Jay, for taking the time to put your understanding out here in RUclips Land - I don't know if you can realize how much you offer and are helping
Curiosity was sorely absent growing up. Unfortunately, this has dulled my sibs and my own natural curiosity particularly with one another. Seem more curious with outsiders
You just awakened in me something long-forgotten...
You don't need curiosity when you already knew everything about everyone... And when you are all powerful
Thank you. Very helpful.
Glad it was helpful!
Thank you for making this video! The way you articulate the experience of having a narcissistic parent is honestly, a little eerie. Everything you talk about is very familiar but I’m also learning and it’s really helping me in therapy. I watch you every week. Thank you!
A lonely narc must have disliked this video
Jay, you are amazing! It’s like you were there in my childhood. Thank for such incredible insight and confirmation of what I’ve gone through
I know!! How can he understand and explain in such nuanced detail?? SO GRATEFUL to find these videos
What if an adult could not heal this wound?
Never give up Sofia. Take care
You just keep trying. Don't give up. It's a journey, not a destination.
Jay thank you so much for the questions that survivors often ask at the end of your video. I have literally just been asking my therapist these same questions as I navigate setting boundaries with my family. This is one of the hardest things I’ve ever done but I believe in my heart it is the right thing. I’ve waited for years hoping and praying they might change but things are just getting worse with age and drug and alcohol use.
One of the hardest things that I have ever done as well.
Thank you for sharing this insightful video. I just had to set a bourndary with a narcissist who is extremely manipulative. They are so good at pulling your strings. They instigate fights and blame their behavior on you. I learned not to engage with them and to walk away. I say that I will not tolerate it. Well, it turned out that after I set a boundary today I really started to honor my feelings. I felt my blood pressure rise just from being around the person and that was enough for me.
Your videos are top quality Jay. To highlight something like the ambiguity involved in self-protective decision making is priceless. Thank you for your work.
Please explain boundaries. What are normal boundaries? It seems we are supposed to know what they are. But to me they are very abstract. How do you know how to act with someone (mom) who just doesn't seem to want to be with you? Is that the point at which going no contact is the only option left? If your mom doesn't have time for you, it is very confusing to know how to relate to anyone else.
Thank you!
Comforting oneself is something I still can't do...can you address why we can't even decades after they are out of it..thanks
I struggle with it as well.
Thank you for your deeplyi insightful videos about this painful subject. Really helpful. Thank you
Oh they HATE boundaries! Doesn't matter how small, of I assert a boundary I'm immediately and continuously punished🙄🤦
Your videos are so helpful thank you 🌸
INEFFABLE THANKS FOR SHARING JAY!!!!!!!
Are there boundaries that should be considered with the other parent who never said anything (or behaved detached)?
I’m struggling with this too🥺 bless you
Good question.
My anger was greater for my natural father who allowed it than for my step-monster who was the principal abuser.
Very clear and helpful
Thank you very much Sir
Excellent description. .thank you Jay..I totally resonate..💜
Thank you! Listening to all your content. Much appreciated.
Oh my. Thanks again.
In what you said about straining to see real life from where you are, getting on your tiptoes... I relate to that too. In thinking about that, it seems to me the relationship with the narcissist is like that's the entire occupation of your mind is that relationship. And that's what you said later, that our perception of life is put to the side...
Thank you for sharing this video Dr Jay, good information.
You're welcome
When you first meet a narc they are sweet and kind and do everything that they can to please you … I’m like that with the ones I love …. But Always…. It’s not just a ploy… I’m willing to compromise and sacrifice for them …. I’ll know when I meet my love because they’re going to show that back …. And “no” will not become a cut off … for love thereafter…. I have learned to move very slowly. If you intend to love someone forever than slowly and intentionally getting to know them is how love happens!
Listening. 😊
Very insightful, very understanding and profound.
I think something about the dysphoria might help explain why I feel very uncomfortable setting boundaries with anyone.
To my surprise, even though most of the time I get backlash, sometimes the boundary actually gets respected and that gives me hope and encouragement to continue to practice setting boundaries.
You’re a freakin life saver 🥺♥️ thank you so much for validating my feelings it’s basically exactly what I’m going through. Do you offer online therapy appointments? And price? Thank you so much 😊
I too would like to know if he does online therapy appointments.
Distress mixed with a hope yes
Thank you for a very informative and supportive message Jay. God bless you❤
Yes! Thank you for your videos!
narcissistic abuse from males 50 years later. Im trying ti work through why an individual can gets so in rage that the individual pounds his fists onto his desk, what causes a human to get that angry towards a female? Why? trying to understand what provokes that type of anger.😢
Your videos are really good. Extremely clear, and very insightful!
Guide
still surviving.
I have a thing I have done since childhood. I'm a lot better with it now. But I can find myself slipping back into it. When things go wrong or depression kicks back in. Amongst many other symptoms I developed a psychological biology man. Where all day every day I would constantly be explaining in a justifying way. Why I was doing what I was doing. No matter what it was. It could be as simple as buying sauce to make lasagna. I would in my head feel the need to talk to an imaginary threatening person. That was possibly me amalgamating many of the people who have psychologically abused me as a child. The purpose of the explaining was to try and sooth the threatening feeling. If a film portrayed it, I would have looked like a young boy so eager to please and be liked. By an angry threatening man following me around. Every activity had to be justified as if my life depended on it. I realise now it is because I am hated by my family. Always have been. I have a narcissistic mother who used to call an anti-mother a kid. I have a sadistic sister who I am her target for her sadistic supply. And an older sister who is psychopathic. The only difference between both sisters is the sadist is extremely personal the psychopath is completely none personal. She treats everyone as bad as she treats me. I've been no contact since 19 years old. I'm now 43. I've over come many of the internal battles it's given me. Been in a state of having to give my heart permanent CPR all my life. But I think the loneliness and isolation of my youth likely also contributed. But never being liked not just loved. But not being around people that ever valued me, were interested in me or liked me for anything. Is what I think has done it. Being hated as a default causes you to unconsciously feel you have to convince people to like you or keep you around. Like justifying your existence to a kidnapper who intends to kill you off.
I think it's emotional incest, plus I think he's sadistic. He bought a receiver and wanted to watch a movie. It was graphic x rated. Who does that with their daughter?
He drives, socialises, etc but I'm wondering if its dementia? Plus his pathology. I tend to forget or blank this stuff out, its bazaar.
Totally used by malignant N mother for her emotions. An object. I was desperate for recognition i even existed as a person.
Nicey nice then come the apologies then the fists pounding his fists on the desk followed up by nicey nice only to aplogise and repeat the behavoir. Disturbing.
💙😃🤗
Scapegoat can count on nothing
Thank you