Relief from Danger vs Presence of Safety after Narcissistic Abuse
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
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Today I want to talk about a facet of recovery from narcissistic abuse when it happens with the people we have to attach to at a young age. The task of the infant then child - that’s usually joined in with by the good-enough parent - is to establish what is called ‘felt security’ with the parent. When things are going right, ‘felt security’ refers to that win-win relationship scenario I’ve described where the child’s connection to himself or herself strengthens the experience of the bond between the parent and child. For this to happen the parent’s motivation has to lie in non-possessively facilitating the child’s own development and necessary attention the child gets to pay to him or herself for this to happen.
Now, in the case of a narcissistic parent, the child’s experience of ‘felt security’ takes on a much more complicated dimension b/c some psychological sleight of hand has to be invoked to offer the child this modicum of ‘felt security’. I think that in these cases ‘felt security’ gets confused with relief from the terror of abandonment and/or unsurvivable attack. When the child must pay more attention to the parent than himself to have any hope of a sort of attachment to that parent then there is no real chance to develop the genuine feeling of ‘felt security’ described earlier - that win-win kind of felt security. Instead, the child faces the prospect of having a parent who is not available to him as needed - something which could strike the terrifying chord of a child feeling unprotected in a big scary world AND unthought of - in a psychological sense - so that he might grow to know himself through the way he is held in the mind of an involved and appreciative caregiver. Now, the child must contort himself in ways that afford ways of being with this caregiver that stave off the awareness of this terrifying reality of how unmet his own needs must go in the relationship. In some ways, paying more attention to the parent than to oneself could afford such a needed staving off of the bad feelings. Often the child may have to dissociate from his inner experience - that is cut off conscious awareness - in order to both meet the parent’s emotional needs AND protect himself from the feelings of abandonment and deprivation that would do no good to express to the same person who is creating these feelings.
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I never realized how "unsafe" I have felt in my family for most of my life. Afraid to go home for the holidays- because of certain members to be there. I am now alone, but doing okay. As a highly successful student, I'm surprised how affected my family relationships have been. I learned to follow the rules, please others.
Thank you so much for talking about this Jay. At age 47, I'm estranged from my mother for this reason. I've slowly come to the realisation and awareness that she's always held me in contempt if I ever thought well of myself. She feels inferior to everyone. I had to be the bad person and allow her to be the victim for us to maintain any kind of connection. There's a lot of grief to deal with now but it's also freeing. I moved away 5 years ago and realise I've been slowly working through this. It's only now that I see all this. This vid has validated my experience, thank you again.
Hi Poppy. I can relate so much to everything you say. At age 35 I took a journalism job in Paris and am still in France 20 years later but have remained emotionally enmeshed with my parents up until recently. They gave me a heavy dose of fear, obligation and guilt during Covid for being so far away (while I lost my business and went on benefits but nobody ever asked how I was doing. Like I could afford to get on a flight to Florida anyways)! Well, my sister FINALLY did in June (and threw me under the bus again as usual) and now I'm truly coming to grips with the fact that I need to shut out the entire family of origin as I rebuild my post-Covid life. Finding new work, renewing friendships and activities -- the lockdowns here in France were strict and total. Past couple weeks I texted my sister several times to ask about mom and dad and she just ignores me! It's out of control. Triggers my abandonment really bad. She's a flying monkey. Just wondering if you were the scapegoat and if you have siblings and can maintain a relationship with them?
@@firehorse9996thank you so much for your reply. I'm so sorry you've had to go through everything you've experienced so far. Yes, I'm the scapegoat in my family. I have two sisters and am fortunately able to maintain a relationship with both of them although both are 100 miles away as is my mum. One lives with my mum too. It's so difficult coming to terms with it all isn't it? It takes so much courage to let go of them (parent(s), family of origin, etc) in order to set yourself free and give yourself a chance to find healthy relationships and be authentically you. I sometimes wish I could live in blissful ignorance but once you see it, you can't pretend to yourself anymore and you have to grow through it. I wish you all the very best for the future, that you find fulfilling work and friendships and please know you're not alone in all of this. We have to find a way to look after and take care of ourselves in ways we never were as children or even as adults. And it's made even more difficult due to Covid 😔. I wish you love and peace ♥️ xx
@@ThePoppy74 Thank you Poppy for your reply. And almost immediately! Blows my mind LOL It's so validating not to be ignored. But as we already know, there are good people in the world. They were there and helped us escape. And we will find them more and more frequently (nobody does this to me except my family and they are 100% reliable when it comes to abandonment) once we live for ourselves and stop wasting energy and feeling down about people who could care less. Jay and his channel are really amazing. Happy that you found your way here ;-) Love and peace to you, too.
@@firehorse9996 thank you 🤗🤗🤗 xx
Stay strong out there friends, keep your chins up, this ain't easy one bit. Check my lil chan here you get time, 10 years No Contact now, I try to help a lil from my experience so far. We got this.
I have a big blank where my childhood was. My mother is the narcissist, father was an enabler and alcoholic.
This was my childhood. I'm finding out, through watching your videos, my mother is a narcissist, my father is an enabler, I'm the scapegoat and their son is the golden child. I never, ever, not once, felt any real security or safety in my childhood. On top of having a dysfunctional core family I was sexually abused by extended family members. I'm amazed every day that I survived it all. Thank you for doing these videos 💗
same
I am not diminishing institutionalized children.but my mother was SO cold and scary I used to ask her to take me to an orphanage...
Yes, I repeatedly asked to audition for a national ballet school so that I could leave.
My altruistic narcissist mom told me that my brother once told her that they gave us "roots and wings" when he went away to college. I think he was just placating her so he could break away. When I finally moved far away, my mom said it was because they gave me roots and wings, even though she tried so hard to manipulate me to move back. I just bit my tongue.
I once heard different ways parents can teach a child how to ride a bike as an analogy to good versus bad parenting. There are the parents that eventually let go of the bike and let the child know that they are still there if the child gets off balance. My parents were those that would keep holding on, saying that if I wanted to ride without them holding on, don't expect them to be there for me if I fall.
Reminds me of a narc mom saying: "You made because if me."
"No. I made it regardless of you."
That's the truth.
@@RippleDrop. Yep, when I get discouraged, I think about all that I've done, despite them trying to hold me back.
@@goldieh7121 Indeed. They tried to destroy you and failed. You won.
I think you have such a gift, to finesse feelings into understanding. Thank you!
I took on the traits of the scapegoat as an adult after being the golden child as a child. it was such a terrible adjustment. I wasn't aware of it at the time. al I knew was I used all my energy to isolate myself form my father to avoid narcissistic abuse. Unable to work, I ended up on disability for depression and anxiety. My dad was a high school band director. He would come home for lunch and I would hide in my closet to avoid any confrontation with him. I lived in a state of fear and isolation most of my adult life. He was a great band director and had the best bands in the state. All the students loved him and couldn't believe me when I tried to convey tot them what is was like to live with him. His personality worked well in the band room to get the most out of students, as he demanded perfection, but the same formula didn't work at home.
Thank you. This is my experience you have described.
As a 5 year old I was so afraid of being voted off the island or kicked out, that I believed if I was a hyper vigilant clean freak and meticulous w clothes, I stood a better chance for getting to stay.
What I like about the way you present is that you come off as neutral. You don't speak in a way that is coddling to the recipients of abuse or bitterly towards narcissists. I can listen and feel I'm being informed about my experiences but also can self-assess and notice if I have adopted narcissist traits, both without feeling weak or guilty...just informed. Thank you.
This one is brilliant!. Thank you Jay. It so explains many of my behaviors of making myself "less than" as that was the only way that I got any attention from my mother. She taught me that love had to be earned by being selfless & obedient. Thank you Jay. I left a message about working with you, but I have not heard back. I will leave another one.
Thank you, Dr Jay. Every week I contemplate at length every point you make - it's very helpful. Love your video "look" now too - looks great :).
It’s strange, but it’s hard for me to let go of my narcissistic father! I have to accept the pain that he doesn’t care or want to know me!
So powerful! Thank you for articulating this concept. 🤗
I really appreciate your putting out videos of this caliber for free.
I just want to say thank you -thank you thank you -I super appreciate your knowledge and your wisdom. Thank you so much for creating your channel to help us grow-
God Bless You ❤
Thank you so much. It resonates with me on so many levels.
Love it all....Go Birds.
I have trust issues due to this. I just don't feel "safe" to share and be open.
Thank you.
Another tremendously relevant and valuable resource! 🙌❤️🙏 ty
My Dad gave us many bare butt spankings with belts, homemade paddle, which later he drilled holes in, willow branches, his bare hand with wedding ring. Very very painful, so bad my hands would try to cover my butt and got hit too. Cruel over the top punishment
Thank you so much! ✨☀️
thank you
My narcissistic mother used to hold my funeral in front of me and called me a whore every single day for 6 years . The icing on the cake was my violent sadistic father . I always felt unsafe.
Neither were alcoholics but they were about as emotionally crazy as a raging drunk .
Jay Reid are you taking new clients,
I would commute to see you!
✌️✌️🎧
I learned what secure attachment would have felt like through my relationships with my dogs and cats. I got my first dog at 30. One day on a beach trip, I decided to climb up a narrow strip on the side of a steep cliff up to the top. My nimble dog got up to the top in no time. I on the other hand was beginning to regret the decision as I struggled. The situation was becoming hazardous. My dog once reaching the top, saw that I was far behind, made a bee line down towards me. I was alarmed because he now was in danger of falling off the cliff as well. I tried to shoo me back up, but he refused. We both eventually made it up to safety. His matter-of-the-fact way of coming to my aid and staying with me was so foreign to my experience up to that point. It was one of those moments that gave me a hint of what I had missed from my parents.
Yes! I also first learned about secure attachment through my first dog at the age of 26. I had no idea what it was like to come home to another living being that was consistent in their behavior towards me. I knew no matter how terrible my day was at work, I would get to come home to my pups who were excited to see me and wanted only to love on me. It blew my mind to experience unconditional love like that before. Animals are such a blessing and teach us so much about real life.
This is really helpful. We focus all our energy on trying to stay safe but we never fully acknowledge or become aware of our own needs.
When you are a child it is as if we sacrifice our self to our NP , to validate their critic view on us ,so they can fix us ....
100% did this. Not happening again.
Absolutely.
You didn't NEED to be fixed you NEEDED to be WHAT God made you! These people will pay on judgement day!
This is difficult to listen to because the accuracy of his words cuts to my core. This articulates my experience in ways I've never been able to. When he says the phrase; "being nobody to no one", I actually started to cry.
Yeah I connected when he said the psychological abandonment
I’ve been listening to this kind man for the past two weeks. Haven’t cried so much in a while 😢
I discovered your videos last week and binge wstched them. Cant tell you how happy i am right now for this new video. Your work is so helpful!
Happy binging! I think I need to re-watch most of them; so much to absorb!
@@charissaschalk5175 thanks 😀 every time i re-watch i get more out of it.
He is awesome!
Every video here I'm blown away by this man's knowledge, it really helps understand the intricacies of my situation after having to go No Contact over 10 years ago. Stay strong friends, we got this.
This couldn't have come at a more perfect time in my life.
Same
You're not alone there ♡
Wow. My mom allowed my brother ( the Golden Child) to chase me with a hammer. As she stood there, I begged her to pick me up. I was TERRIFIED. she laughed, and said "Run! Run!" It was cruel and sadistic. I stopped, he hit me on the head. Dad must have come around, saw what happened, spanked my brother...took me to hospital. I was blamed ... I was four- ish, my brother three-ish. I never understood why I stopped and just gave up, letting my brother beat me. I guess, the trauma of not being safe with my cruel mom, made me just give up. I obviously was scapegoated. She BLAMED ME. Never felt safe 😢Dad was never protective. He knew the wrath he'd face if he took up for me. My mom had nothing but contempt for me. Thankfully, I'm an empath 😊but, feel like nothing to nobody else😢something I struggle with. It's difficult to face that. Logically, it's not true. 😢
So good, Jay! Thanks. What you talked about today explains clearly why I had so much difficulty getting through certain emotions and responses in relationships. Very, very helpful.
My narcissistic mom used to make sure I was in danger and to not feel trust also when asleep by telling me at bed time that I should be aware of that "one can die during the night" - her way to wish me sweet dreams🙃👍
I agree. There was no safety, not in the bathroom, bedroom, car, anywhere. I worried very much about my parents sneaking into my bedroom at night.
My grandmother raised me and she used to tell me that the devil could come in and tickle my toes. It terrified me it's taking me awhile to get over that.
She was probably projecting her fear of death
You’ve captured it - the parent on the dark spectrum.
My narc parents treated me their eldest daughter as if I owed them a lifetime of labour and attention to their wants and needs as if I had none myself - parentifying me to meet the needs their parents never met . My siblings were not put in this position and to this day pretend nothing untoward happened in our family . I don't know how they square all the raging , threatening , verbal and physical violence that went on . The fact I took the brunt of it is ok with them - and so the game continues in their own families I guess . I realized when my eldest was about 10 that I was repeating some of my parents' abuse and put a total end to it , kept my kids away from the grandparents as they were starting to talk to my kids the same as me when I was young and went NO CONTACT . I wish I had known enough to do it years earlier .
You are strong.
Yeah, I tried to figure out what would be good enough reason to let my kid meet members of my toxic family. There is no such reason. My son already was made the next generation scapegoat to fill my mother's weird need to divide people to good and no-good. And my big brother treated my kid like sh**, it was so awful i couldnt believe it. And i was like brainwashed to think, ok, i deserve it, but i totally pulled emergency brakes when i realized my kid was targeted! It was a shock. Mountains of guilt but i have decided to remain no contact.
it sounds as if you’re describing my exact family dynamic I’m trying my hardest to leave as soon as i can its heartening to know this isn’t something that we solely experienced
Thanks Jay! You described my relationship with my altruistic narcissistic parents so well. I was left thinking I must accept and appreciate help from anyone that is nice to me. I do have an inclination to present myself in disrepair to others, that offered me great insight to how I end up in toxic relationships.
Absolute gold! "figuring out how to avoid bad feelings can seem like the best there is to get from others". This is soooooooo true for me, i'm always looking for ways to get rid of tension, confrontation etc. No wonder i have been such a nice guy wuss my entire life, and people have taken me granted for so long.
Now I understand why I sabotaged every opportunity for good things in my life. I had opportunities, I didn't have bad luck in that way, but I was compelled to sabotage them all.
I love your videos. I feel validated.
I'm glad I stumbled upon your video tonight. Recently in my life I have come to the realization that the legal guardian who raised me, my grandmother, was probably a narcissist with some other coexisting disorder. The fact that I share so many of the symptoms from this video is a good indicator that I'm not crazy or wrong. I never understood why I always felt like I had to hide my own ability or strength, in my mind it was so that other people's feelings wouldn't get hurt, so I thought it was somewhat of a virtue.
Your videos are so specific, thorough and relevant! Thank you so much!
Relief from danger for me.. locking myself in my room looking at the computer 👍🎧🎶
Both parents emotionally abandoned me, one of them was unsurvivable and both siblings learned to join in.
Does this ever manifest in the child feeling they have to be vulnerable/weak/needing of help in order to connect with others who will save them from that?
From personal experience, yep, totally. That's the way we were taught to connect, so we continue doing so. I'm in my late 30s and still don't feel the difference between "opening up" to someone and putting myself completely at their mercy.
I can relate to this - i'm later 20's now and still feel like a child (dependant and problematic) when talking to my parents and other members of family including siblings. Yet have functional and enjoyable adult relationships outside of these circles, much to my surprise at times!
@@kaworunagisa4009 I find this particularly difficult. I also find myself, when opening up, feeling lost and confused after a short time, and deeply vulnerable to a malevolent observer, even if they are quite safe people. This, including wanting to apologise for myself when opening up.
My dad got involved after i got offered a transfer to Kansas City at work, with a promotion looming. He came up with a lot of excuses on why i shouldn't go, and should stay where im at. Which would keep me in a tough place, and still partially dependent. Wasn't the first time that pattern with him started either.
He's very dependent on "helping" me, which is more like "fixing" me. He needs that skin in the game to function. Always knew he was a fixer, but never knew why he would always be against things that could potentially bring growth and development in my life.
This explains a lot.
As always, very insightful. I struggle still to know what I am truly feeling. Last night I looked up at the sky and all I felt was this overwhelming sense of fear - no safety to be found anywhere. I play out this same scenario with my ex-husband who regularly threatens to stop paying me child support thus putting me in a position of being evicted from me and my children's home. It is frightening and anxiety provoking...exactly like I felt as a child. I don't know yet how to break this sad cycle of financial abuse. Thank you for all your videos. They help me see exactly where the damage lies and offers hope to improve.
Very sad. It brings me back to feelings of being scared always striving for approval. Never got it.😢
It seems like no one is safe. After a long childhood of it and all my boyfriends being narcis, it's so hard. Im old.
Incredibly insightful video! This gave me words and examples to explain my upbringing to my husband and gave him understanding of my formative years that he could never 'get' before. A simple thank you is not enough.
Nobody explains this subject as well as this man.
Dead on as usual, thanks Jay
My brother said that my dad went to all of his football games and his wrestling matches. He also said he had panic attacks from the loud arguments with my mom and dad.
Back in the seventies, the playgrounds had concrete under the swing. My dad was pushing me one day when I fell back and cracked my head open. I had a long scar on the back of my head, but it blended in. I remember feeling it bleed. I believe that my narcissistic father wasn’t very comforting. I also remember when we went fishing and my sister slipped into the lake! He jumped into save her! I can’t remember much but when he yelled I know it was scary! Even as an adult I was afraid to confront him about the abuse. He dominated the conversation and I was shut down when sitting next to him.
YESSSS! Yes. Wow.
Thank you so much, this video again has helped me understand this so well, something that until now I had no insight into what has been going on. Thank you for being you, your kindness and steady way of speaking and clear way of talking is so calming and healing to my soul and shaken nervous system. I never realised my desire to dissociate actually has a very good purpose and its creation was very needed. Now I can address why I want to dissociate from my feelings and from God instead of going towards them for genuine safety. I can begin at least the process of gradually stopping from becoming frustrated by myself. Thank you so much.
THANKS JAY BEYOND EXPRESSION FOR REPEATEDLY SHARING YOUR BRILLIANT & USEFUL ROADMAP!!! Repetition is the mother of skill and this apprentice needed it!!! MAJOR SERIOUS THANKS!! YOU are the only person who has shared such a helpful tool for dealing with these types of nuts
I feel badly sorta for calling narcissists “nuts” - they are teachers for us and your teaching has been with proactive, positive tools for dealing with them are truly AMAZING!! MAJOR THANKS!!
Thanks for the priceless perspectives to bury past trauma. I am experiencing a little trigger with the phrase ' good enough' parent bc my narc parent uses this phrase in esteem. Im pretty sure her idolized parent used this phrase too. I have heard about this concept for parenting and searched for its application for my past. My uses it appropriately for low level litteral actions so I get the difference. Just need to get it out of my system.
Once again your example hit home...😐. I happen to have that altruistic narcissist for a father also, just like in your description. So that's what life is about is acting as if I have a problem, something that needs fixing... Thank you so much for the work that you do sir, it is very helpful.
So then the next idea of course is that means that my relationship with him is not real. But this is all that my brother and I have ever known with him.
And that means inside him is narcissism...
For your work sir, I know one thing about him, that he was the "hero" of his family, I think. And his dad was very authoritarian, and didn't treat his mother very well. His dad didn't abuse her physically I don't think, but he certainly did emotionally. I witnessed that many times.
Thank you!! So very helpful!
I just recently came to scratch the surface of this layer of abuse. I called it the one up one down scenario. I’ve had the felt experience,you helped me see the man behind the curtain so to speak, very in depth and revealing. I’ve been working to educate myself so I can heal . You reveal so much on your channel that I’ve grown in awareness just in the short time I’ve watched. Thanks for sharing.
Hi Jay, I am being poisoned by my narcissistic ex every night no matter where I go. Is there any organization to contact for help? I live in Folsom and police , fire department do not help with anything with this abuse. Could you give me any advice? I need some help soon. Thank you
Somebody please help me I’m starving for 3 days long my life is destroyed
10:11 - In my experience this altruistic force (and retaliatory rage if unaccepted or unappreciated) to be the dominant relational expression for the more covert style of narcissism.
I really relate to the feelings of these videos a lot
What do you mean by Inner world?
My dad was so loud. Like so loud
I'm grateful Jay. You described perfectly my son's relationship with dear dad. Thanks🌛♥️
When I was abt 12 or13yrs old. At my bonus grandmother apricot tree picking apricots, as they're make jelly. Let's just say I came into my woman hood. As I was climbing abt I noticed. My first thought was she is going be very difficult. As she was very bizzy. And I have no choice but to tell her, all the girls that has been through this the mom's somewhat celebrated. Took them to the drug store.then went to bakery ect. My mom said this you found a way to ruin my day and plans yet again. Told me to get in shower and don't move from the bathtub until I tell you two. Thank you ever so much. At a very young age, my instincts were my parents were on a need to know basese.my father called out of the blue. Ie enabler abt spring ie this year and stated. Why do I assume we don't like you.qnd wanted to talk abt it.So I just listened. And wanted the conversation to end. I know she was about,at the time as he wouldn't ask or call she is always the one that deals with his children.
Thank you so much for sharing this information which helps me understand others in my family better too.
Why is there the sound of heavily dripping/draining water in the background of your videos? I love your content & demeanor, but every so often I zero in on that sound & it's very detracting/distracting to prolly anyone with anxiety which is prolly most of your viewers!
🤣 I am sorry..but "dripping" made me laugh because I have a SERIOUS anxiety problem...but I only listen in MY apartment...not you tube
So much pain and relief while listening to this 🥹
i was wondering about using cannibis or nicotine and the urge to use when encountering melancholy and or sorrow. i did magic mushrooms yesterday and found sorrow for my self and desperation and rushing emotion in my dad. it feels different than restlessness. basically even if they wanted to slow down they cant. i often found it annoying when ppl said u need to slow down. now i realize i dont want to live like they do in this desperation and running. i tried running from suicidal thoughts doenst work and id like to heal. not pretend anymore. money and stuff dont make a person happy i think only way to be happy is to be happy with your self internal things. i find also there is still a huge stigma for me using mushrooms to peer into my internal world. many ppl think that just do as we do use computers, food, drugs like coffee or tea. i just dont feel that way. i even put a hand on his shoulder and yet this emotion of i need to keep moving, if i dont somthing bad will happen. i cannot effect or control him in any way. i thinks thats whats most striking is the lack of effect u have on them its like they are lost and fumbling and yet will not ask for help and or they want to stew in their misery. i understand that and i also do magic mushrooms to get out of that mindset and way of being. and i find stigma of doing them just pretend like we do and it will work out. that doesnt work for me anymore. i have tried doing medications and therapy i am currently in therapy again and yet it doesnt work. and ppl want to say just do more why? the why's are awkward questions.