Nikon Z6 III Dynamic Range Review: TESTED
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- Опубликовано: 3 июл 2024
- Buy the Nikon Z6 III ($2496) at SDP.io/Z63
Buy the Nikon Z5 ($996) at SDP.io/Z5
Buy the Nikon Z7 II ($2296) at SDP.io/Z72
The Nikon Z6 III has a serious problem with it’s dynamic range. Photons to Photos (www.photonstophotos.net/ ) discovered that it’s MORE THAN A FULL STOP behind cameras like the Nikon Z7 II, which is less expensive. A full stop is DOUBLE the dynamic range!
Most likely, Nikon compromised dynamic range to improve the readout speed of the sensor. They might have reduced the well capacity of individual photosites to pack in some other type of circuitry to temporarily hold the charge from an exposure, similar to the way the Sony a9 III achieved a global shutter.
Tony Northrup takes real test shots to show you how much the difference is so you can decide whether it’s good enough or if you’d rather choose a camera with better dynamic range but worse autofocus and video performance. Everything is a compromise, but you deserve to make educated choices. 
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This is how fast sensors perform. The z6iii has no noise reduction. If you compare it against the R6 mark ii in electronic shutter mode (which has no noise reduction) you’ll find the R6 is worse. R6 with mechanical shutter bakes in noise reduction into the raws for better test results.
ya but.. they won't do that.
It´s pretty obvious a haf stacked sensor has a DR penalty, just like the Sony A9III with its global shutter. Don´t act like this is a Nikon problem, it´s simply a technology problem.
I'm just curious. (I know; don't poke the bear. I just can't help it sometimes. LOL) At what point in this review did Tony EVER insinuate that this was a "Nikon" problem, versus a technology problem? Go ahead. Be specific. Exact phrases, please.
It's a problem that in 2024 camera makers like Nikon and Lumix have added a ton of features while sacrificing dynamic range. Use you eyes my friend. What do they tell you?
It´s pretty obvious a half stacked sensor for the Z6 III is a "bad decision problem" by Nikon.
Nikon don't comprehend, that the main customer target segment for the Z6 III has mostly ZERO interest in any video orientation, and who are rather annoyed that they have to pay a high extra price to cover such costs. Or have to bear things like a video-flippy screen. And get image quality penalties on top.
Nikon also don't comprehend, that they are too late to the video game anyway. That market is divided already between the video 'trinity' of Sony, Canon, and Panasonic. Everyone with a video interest is already invested in there, also with plenty of lenses. Nobody will change over to Nikon for that, in particular not to a Z6 III.
The type of customers which are still with Nikon, are mostly stills oriented. But now, for a substantial period of 2024 to 2028, Nikon doesn't offer a mid range solution which is competitive with regards to
- resolution
- dynamic range
which is quite a poor marketing position against current and upcoming competition.
Let's remember, that in the DSLR days, Nikon did well against the market leader Canon, because Nikon convinced with better dynamic range and resolution. These were the Nikon genes.
Now, with the Z6 III, they flush all of this down the toilet.
@@tubularificationed I guess thats why Nikon is gaining market share.
@@tubularificationedexactly. get back to making cameras at $1600 ToPS !! And no video. And not 24mp that came out 12 years ago.
Tony, you called the Z8's DR "standard" in a comment. I know that YT creators don't get notifications for nested comments, so I thought I' d leave my reply here as well for you to consider:
First off, I feel your analysis is sound, however, I feel you're also over stating some aspects of this slight drop in DR and understating others.
Starting with the understating: As far as DR and the Z8/9 go, standard is not accurate for these fully stacked sensors. Compared to the D850 and Z7/ii, the Z8/9 have a similar drop in DR between base ISO 64 and ISO 400 (ISO 500 is the 2nd native ISO of all of those 45mp sensors). At ISO 100 the Z8 has a 1/3 stop less DR than the D850/Z7/ii. That widens to half a stop at ISO 160 thru ISO 300 and then jumps to 1 full stop of diff in DR at ISO 400.
Meanwhile, the Z6iii has about 2/3 a stop along its first native ISO range (100 - below 800 with ISO 800 being its 2nd native ISO). The greatest gap is at ISO 100 where it stands at just over 3/4 a stop of DR so opposite the Z8 which has less of a gap at lower ISO. At ISO 800 and above the Z6iii overtakes the DR of the Z7ii and the Z8 and is only a tiny fraction below a Z6/ii (sandwiched within a tiny sliver).
In short both partial and stacked sensors have a drop in DR compared to their non-stacked counterparts, so calling it standard is not accurate.
Meanwhile, the DR of the 6iii is on PAR with the Z8 save for the Z8's base ISO 64 and above ISO 800 it exceeds it. I suggest putting the D850, Z8, Z7ii, Z6ii, and Z6iii into PhotonsAndPhotos to observe this.
As far as the situations you noted go I feel there was a bit of overstating that went on.
IMHO, candid, minimal/no flash, wedding photography lives at higher ISOs, those where DR is essentially the same. That high ISO requirement is care of the fact that most weddings occur in the late afternoon/evening. As far as flashes go, few things are more annoying at a wedding (reception) than a photographer taking ALL the photos at the reception with flash. One it blinds the guests and it also results in artificial looking results. Higher ISO, even grainy ISO, result in more pleasing images.
As for the bird situation you described (dark birds against a bright lit sky): This is also going to be a bit different than your controlled low (ambient) light studio result. Point being, the QE (Quantum Efficiency) of the Z6iii is certainly higher than that of the Z7/ii given its larger photo sites. That means it will be better at capturing _any_ available photons. While the bird in the unprocessed images may be dark in comparison to the sky, unlike your studio, the ambient light will certainly result in far more available photons bouncing off the bird. Those extra photons can then be collected by each photo site resulting in a far less noisy mess when you recover, at least in comparison to your low-light studio example. Case in point, I have photos taken with my 5Diii, with far inferior DR than any recent Nikons, and I'm able to recover far more detail in a few shots that compare to your proposed situation than I would in your controlled setup.
Same goes for daytime landscapes - more photons are collected even if you don't see them in the un-processed photo if you go with a longer exposure.
Nighttime photos are either in the high ISO/high shutter realm or slow shutter/low ISO realm. The former is an equal playing field across all these cameras in terms of DR, the latter increases the time to collect photons which will help the Z6iii produce a cleaner image.
That leaves the first valid use case - nighttime photography with subjects in mixed lighting. While a valid example, your 6-stop difference is certainly a very large gap in lighting that narrows the likelihood of the use case. The only examples I can think of are a bright light source with people standing in front of it who are in shadow (fireworks, bonfires, etc). The low ambient light at night will limit the number of photons and as such you will certainly see a difference between the Z6iii and Z7ii if you're shooting within their 1st native ISO range.
Your example of sunrise/set photos is also valid but will also be highly dependent on how intense the sun light you are shooting into is (i.e. how far above the horizon) as well as the overall terrain. Shots where the sun has already set or is low in the horizon, will be less of an issue regardless of terrain even if exposed for the highlights than if the sun is still in the sky.
In my experience, shooting even with an old 5Diii in the distant past, this really only starts to be an issue if you are shooting __into__ the sun while it is still very bright (i.e. 20 min - 120 min before sunset or after sunrise). In over 30 years of photography, while I have many such photos, they are a small percentage, especially amongst my sunset photos which tend to favor the last 10 or fewer minutes before sunset. Among those photos I either expose for the highlights and then leave the terrain in shadow or I split the difference and minimally process. Sunsets and sunrises where the sun is only a few degrees in the sky are far more common as far as shooting into the sun goes and less likely to cause issues with the sliver of difference in DR. While my old 5Diii can pull some solid detail from the shadows save for those very harsh lighting situations, the Z6 and the D750 were both champs and I don't see the Z6iii being that much worse given the Z6iii is a full 1.5 stops better off than the 5Diii.
The only exceptions would be perhaps mountainous terrains, but as you noted bracketing or even the much-enhanced NR we have in LR now do a great job. Even then, the intensity of the sun is very minimal. I have photos of the 2012 Venus transit taken with my 5Diii that I was able to recover all sorts of detail even though the sun had yet to set.
I only mention this because most people don't understand the science of photography the way you do and may see this "warning" as a "do not buy" hurting an otherwise very well-rounded camera that may have served them well. Far too often people seek perfection and, in the process, miss out on better setup. In any case, please do what you do and deliver the messages, but do so without hyping it up more than it deserves.
Well said!
No they only want to know the true dynamic range. No need for excuses.
@@contentm3893 No excuses were made.
The only point I made is that this partial stop of DR difference will not be obvious in the vast majority of real-world photographs.
That's because in real world photography, even those shadows that are 5 stops darker will have more photons bouncing off them and being collected by any sensor involved.
Tony's example used what was effectively a photo taken in a dungeon where the only properly lit object had a spotlight cast on it. There was minimal to zero ambient light save what was generated by the spotlight. To boot, there are backlights (magenta and blue) that throw things off further for any subjects in the foreground - i.e. like the book that is in complete darkness/shadow.
As I noted, the result is fewer photons which sets up a low SNR situation, a challenge for any sensor.
As I noted, this is a valid test, and while it certainly shows that the Z6iii has less DR, we already knew that it had 2/3-3/4 less DR for ISO 100-700.
However, by doing the test in near total darkness, under less-than real world (let alone expected) conditions, he was able to get a result that pushes the limit of DR and makes that slight difference in DR look far worse.
Case in point, I suggest you watch the following video that does a far better job of showing this difference in DR and it's impact on IQ in real world landscape photography.
Search for "Nikon Z6II vs Nikon Z6III - Image Quality Review" by ZJ Michaels.
@@ElGrecoDaGeek I just bought this camera (currently in Japan). It was a massive decision… upgrading from the d7200… yes that’s right 😮 can’t open it until I get home from Australia but I think I’m in for a treat. I was set on Sony until I saw this and read the reviews, thanks for your detailed response. Big purchase for me so don’t want any buyers remorse 😊
The Z9/Z8 had worse DR than the Z7II, yet here we are years later and no one seems to care. This is a nothing-burger. Most people are going to bracket and HDR Merge if they need this much shadow recovery. Also AI Denoise is so good these
days.
As for the content... Z7II is one of the best DR on FF cameras of all time, so not really a fair comparison.
And Z7II for weddings? No, AF sucks on that thing (especially in low light). You'll miss the moment, and that's way more important than a bit better shadow recovery.
I don't think that's true and no one has said that except Z7II owners. You do own a Z7II right?
@@contentm3893 Used to... sold it and picked up a Z8 because the AF was trash
He seems to have intentionally not mentioned the other stacked sensor cameras where the Z6iii lines up on the curve. Strange that.
By 0.3EV> this is 0.82 EV between base iso of both cameras son.
I care.
From a Canon user. Even with a semi stacked sensor Nikon DR is similar to Canon. Which does not speak well for Canon.
Good to know Nikon is pushing to be back.
I'm an hybrid shooter and Nikon was behind all these years.
My first camera was am FM2, my father bought it to me, so it will always be in my heart.
Go for it Nikon!
Oh boy. Quite the misnomer to state that the Z6III has a "serious dynamic range problem". It would be far more accurate to state the engineers traded off half a stop or so of dynamic range for a much faster readout speed and far superior autofocus. That's a compromise that works for me. I upgraded from the Z6 II and I am glad that I did. The Z6III is a worthy companion to my Z8 and Z9. (I shoot a lot of pro sports )
Modern software can do wonders as to reducing noise, but no software can fix rolling shutter, missed focus, or missed in the moment shots because the camera was too slow to wake up.
It may be just my perception, but i think the auto white balance works better as well. The files are a joy to work with in Lightroom btw.
I sold the Z6II before I took delivery of the III so I can't compare them side to side, but practically speaking, I don't notice a whole lot of difference in noise at ISO under 10,000. It is not a noisy camera.
It's a pretty big difference, especially compared to the Z7 II... It's a full-frame camera that performs like a APS-C cameras for DR. Someone said it tested worse than Micro Four Thirds.
@@TonyAndChelseawho is someone? There are always trade offs and this deficiency seems rather insignificant to me in the real world
@@martinhommel9967 Check nikon rumours website. This is where he found this problem also,.
@@TonyAndChelsea "Someone said" is a hilariously anecdotal thing to say about something that can be measured through testing like what kind of professional reviewer cites "someone" 💀
But Tony actually says that at 5:42. He says, with that lower DR, you get all the other things... He literally said those things that you just said. How is it a misnomer when he literally acknowledges everything you claim he didn't acknowledge at 5:42
I've been using mine for the last three days on a trip and am absolutely loving this camera so far!
Yeah it's one of my favorite cameras of all time to use. The screens are great!
@@TonyAndChelsea Absolutely, so far such a great job by Nikon on this one. Be curious to see what future firmware updates bring! 📸😎
As someone who shoots a lot of video, the ISO6400 in N-Log is a huge upside for this camera. Plus the low light focusing is exceptional and the fast sensor (at a reasonable price) does make a big difference with fast action situations. For $2500 we were going to give some ground in one area or another, and particularly in this day and age of AI assisted noise reduction, I would rather give a little in DR than be held back by a non-stacked sensor.
Yeah that's a reasonable choice
It all comes down to the processor and how many features they can process before they hit the limit. That's why you see Sony cameras getting more dynamic range from the same sensor. You do have trade offs but it's Nikon's choice just like Sony and others. In 2024 the game is through in a lot of features and dynamic range suffers because said companies never get called out for sub par dynamic range. Look at the R5 vs the R5C.They use the same sensors but the R5C has a lot more dynamic range. When the Z6III replaced the Z6II you shouldn't lose dynamic range. So when Sony comes out with there next $2,500 camera and it has better dynamic range then the Z6III the only one to blame is Nikon. I love Nikon but they need to focus on dynamic range and image or people will not jump over and change brands. Even RED came out and said they couldn't update the Original Komodo because it was basically full. No more space. Also, look at Magic Lantern and see if it makes sense how much dynamic range they pull from those hacked systems. Look at how Nikon is marketing the Z6III, internal RAW, this and that. That's all great but you will never gain dynamic range if the camera can't produce it.
@@contentm3893 I just looked it up. DR for the R5C in CRAW at ISO800 at SNR=2 is 10.2 stops. For the Z6III, same settings in NRAW…9.89 or roughly a third of a stop. For a camera that normally lists at $1800 more! And is slow to boot, impractical at best for real hybrid shooting, etc. That particular difference is minuscule. The 4k Sonys have around 12 stops, but that’s with a lot of internal noise reduction on a very specialized sensor that has very limited practicality for stills. 12 megapixels is weak. There’s always trade offs and speed vs DR is one of them. For my needs, Nikon has hit the mark with the Z6III. Where before I never even looked at a Z6 or Z6II, I now own 2 of the threes. The sum of the parts at this price is what I need to accompany my Z9.
@@bernardlanguillier65 That's a good thing. Most cameras out now are using a Sony sensor from 2018.
That's a great point.
Can you do this comparison vs z8 or z9? Curious to see the difference btwn partial and fully stacked sensors.
using the same source, between ISO 100 and 400, dr is about the same.
The DR isn't as good above ISO 500 as it is on the Z7II... it evens out at 500 (Just like the Z6III matches the Z6II above iso 1000).
@@b34k97 yes, until about ISO 600, the Z7ii has better dr, but above that, the Z6ii is marginally better - according to the PTP graphs.
No he can do it vs Sony a9iii it got a global sensor
@@starbase218 Northrup cheater. Look, it compares the photos of the z7ii taken at 1/50 and at ISO 64 with the photo of the z6iii taken at 1/80 and at ISO 100
It‘s a problem of all stacked and semi-stacked sensors.
Actually look at the comparison with the Canon and Sony cameras: at base ISO the Sony a1 is considerably better and the Canon R3 even better than that
Cheap ones, maybe. The A1 is a stacked sensor and it has one of the highest DR ratings of any mirrorless FF camera.
this video is stunned as a bag of hammers. The Z6iii has about the same dynamic range as the Z8 and Z9 at ISOs 100-400. Not too many folks whined about that. But ignorance is bliss. Besides, who pulls their shadows up 6.5 stops?
But DR is evaluated and most used at the base ISO, giving the Z8 and Z9 a big advantage. Landscape and wildlife photographers constantly pull shadows up more than 6.5 stops. I discuss it in the video.
@@TonyAndChelsea 1. check the base ISO performance on the same site; 2. as primarily a landscape photographer for the last 50 years, and using digital for the last 25, meter better. 2b. as a landscape photographer, having black in an image can be a good thing. Use it as a design element. 3. even at base ISO, it's a little under 1/2 stop. Not the end of my or anyone realistic's world. I will take the improved af ability in low light any day.
@user-vn1dl9tx6p I'm always bringing up the shadows in lightroom, and that's on my 10 year old d750 which apparently has nearly a full stop better of dynamic range. You guys need to stop with this copium. Nikon blew it making the decision to favor speed over photo quality for this camera.
Unless you are are primarily into sports photography or wildlife videos I don't get why they made this decision.
Possible to do a comparison between Z6iii and Z8 in terms of high iso. Will the iso 25600 for both cameras be the same or the Z6iii be better in low light shoot when shutter speed will need to be above 1/600 with aperture of F2.8 and above? Will the iso 64000 be usable and produce better low light, high speed photos than Z8? Thanks.
I know a few wedding photographers and they have started using the Z 6lll and loving the results. In fact one also has a z 8 and Z 9 and has now decided to get another Z 6lll for his second wedding camera, Loves the files and ergonomics of the camera. Says the autofocus is great as well
Something to also consider is how much editing latitude you have after applying lens corrections. A lot of modern lenses have some significant vignetting which can rob 2-4 stops of light on the periphery of the image. Trying to lift shadows from an area that already has been lifted that many stops will have you run into issues quickly.
We really do need DR to improve to compensate for the craze of smaller optics that have worse and worse vignetting.
Really good point! Too bad we can't get computational photography.
With some lenses (Canon 15-35 F/2.8 for example) it's so bad that the older 16-35 at F/4 is actually equally bright if not brighter than the f/2.8 lens in a big portion of the frame.
Oh, and it's not just the DR that's impacted but most importantly the signal to noise ratio, if you lose 2 stop of light it's like going from 1600 to 6400... the 15-35 goes up to 4 stop of light loss, you do the math...
Awesome point!
One stop is the difference between full frame and APS-C. If this didn't matter to anyone, why does the full frame market exist at all then? 😉
The problem with more and more modern lenses is, that the vignetting doesn't just go away when stopping down.
- Wide open, the corners suffer e.g. from -3 to -4 stops (less than 10% of light arrives there)
- Stopped down, still -2 or so.
Vignette as an "artistic value" is a bad marketing tool to sell a weak-DR-performing camera. Most photography doesn't want vignetting, and for some other stuff, it is a matter of taste, many just don't like it.
Nobody wants to be bullied into it just because of a weak camera.
This artsy fartsy stuff (the bad one which depends on vignetting to be worth while) is usually the one where no aspect of image quality has any relevance anyway. Instead of a painfully expensive Z6 III, a cheap used DSLR of 20 years ago would do the artsy-fartsy job perfectly fine, and would be the more appropriate choice.
Nikon Z/S lenses have built in Corrections that remove almost all the vignetting. :)
Nice to see you by yourself. :). Need more of this and only together for specific situations.
I hope those of us who don't often shoot outdoors or under controlled studio lighting conditions -- my main work is performances on stage and in nightclubs , the latter with widely varying and downright weird and dim lighting-- aren't dissuaded from checking out the Z6 III. The photonstophotos site shows that at ISOs above 800 the Nikon falls in line with other contemporary full-frame cameras, such as the Sony A7C II that I currently use. Gerald Undone's tests gave similar results. For reference, my usual nightclub work ends up with shutter speeds around 1/200 (to freeze rapidly moving drag queens) , apertures full open at either F2.8 or F4, and ISOs starting at 1600 and going up (sometimes very up). Nightclub work is like birding but with wretched lighting. My main interest in the Z6 III is how much any rolling-shutter effects remain in electronic-shutter mode by use of the partially-stacked sensor's fast readout. I don't have the $$ for a Sony A9 III to eliminate the problem entirely. And I have yet to see a Z6 III review that covers this aspect adequately, at least for stills.
Rent and test, Tonny's example is ridiculous, at 4:39 both images look like crap.
@@jaimeduncan6167 I think the test is fine. It is a pretty extreme shadow lift so most camera won't look great but there was a notable green tint in the Z6iii image and coarser color noise that I've seen in test from other reviewers as well. Real question is whether it will actually matter IRL, I feel like the cases that Tony brought up might not be too relevant since I don't think the Z6iii is a landscape body and if a landscape photographer was shooting a scene with direct run they would be better off exposure bracketing anyways.
Almost all landscape / travel photography is hobbyists' photography, and most hobbyists look after a middle-class priced camera, between $2000-$3000 bracket, and which isn't too heavy/too bulky.
Almost all professional photography (where money can be earned) is people/events, in particular, portraits and weddings and such. Also there, a high DR is decisive, whereas nunances in rolling shutter differences are not at all. That is only a thing for the few birds-in-flight hobbyists, and even fewer sports photographers.
Nikon don't know yet the magnitude of the disfavour they did to themselves (offering sub-par resolution paired with sub-par dynamic range with the Z6 III). For the next four years, 2024-2028, they don't offer a camera model which would be convincing enough for the important middle class market segment. The one which is so decisive for the overall market share.
@@jaimeduncan6167 Just saw Jared Polin's RAW file review of the Z6 III. He actually covers rolling shutter in stills in the extreme situation of a baseball batter. He also showed images taken at higher ISOs. What I saw definitely encourages me to rent a Z6 III or at very least to try it out in-store. Luckily my local store here in NYC is BH Photo.
I just saw Jared Polin's review of the Z6 III's raw file performance. His high ISO shots as well as his rolling-shutter tests with an extreme subject (baseball batter) are encouraging me to check out the camera, either by rental or in-store. Fortunately, I live in NYC and have two fabulous local stores, both major online photo retailers.
if you have nikon z6 or z6 ii, I would like to see the high iso performance against z6 iii🙏
They're on par with Z5 anyway, with slight variation between them. Z6 II is a hair split better than Z5.
I was one of the first to receive the new Z6iii. I've been in the Nikon family since the 1970's. I was disappointed with the dynamic range and shadow recovery based on identical shooting scenarios when I compared .nef images of the Z6iii and the Z6ii. I am primarily an existing light and night time shooter. The new and improved Z6iii does not suit my shooting style and use case. I am returning it to my vendor for a full refund.
@@richardmitchell364😂 you're just too funny. So much delusional. Extraordinary what we can read nowadays on the internet
For landscapes, I'd totally recommend the Z7 (II) over the Z6 III, but for weddings and other professional use cases? I don't know, man.
A slightly more noisy image is better than an out of focus image, I'd absolutely recommend the Z6 III over any of the older cameras below the Z8.
Yeah it's a very personal choice. Even if you're a portrait photographer, it depends on your style. If you shoot dynamically, candidly, or photograph children a lot, the Z6 III AF is probably more valuable to you. If they're static studio shots, for sure the Z7 II will produce better images.
@@TonyAndChelsea I absolutely agree. I picked up a used Z7 for only 1000€, for Macro and astrophotography, as a 2nd body besides my Z8. If AF doesn't matter, these are great cameras which you can get at very low prices.
Anyway, it would be interesting to also compare The Z6 III to the Z8, because in the ISO range that is mostly relevant for wildlife, they're nearly identical.
No serious photographer would consider keeping or working on a photo requiring the amount of shadow recovery shown in this test. The examples all look horrible, there is no winner. I am more than sure that in real life scenarios the difference is pretty much insignificant.
"Serious" photographer here, who shoots for "fun". I often shoot in forests - my favorite hiking spots. Lighting is a HUGE mixed bag as part of the experience. And it's incredible the shadow detail I can pull up from some sensors, versus others, while I'm forced to protect bright highlights in a small portion of the shot, while the rest of the scene is in deep shadow.
The point wasn't that someone would actually want the examples he posted. The point was to use an extreme example so you and I are aware that there are limitations. Limitations I absolutely need to be aware of, if I were to want to purchase this camera for shooting in forests.
@@JasonOverHere I am not an expert, but as per the test ISO 800 onwards dynamic range are identical for both the sensor and in darker situation i would prefer to increase the ISO rather capturing a dark photo and recover shadow in post processing. So for me there are no or very rare practical application in real life..
@@Bikash_Jana Hi there. That’s not what I’m referring to. In the real-world situation I’m describing, you have no choice but to recover shadows in post. Well, you always have a choice…I can let my highlights clip and expose for the shadows, but then I’ve lost all detail in the bright parts of the scene. Exposure bracketing doesn’t always work either, because it’s not necessarily a non-moving scene (streams, wind in leaves, etc.). I noticed the chart at higher ISOs as well, and I’m keeping that in mind too. Though preferably, my ISO will be as low as possible.
All part of the fun and games which are photography!
I can't understand people who are so eager about DR shadow recovery and don't use AI noise reduction. Even in lightroom a 5 sec process would make these images THE SAME!
@@f.iph7291 5 seconds on your hardware, perhaps. It’s all about time and available resources. And I assume you’ve also noticed, but doing it in post doesn’t imply automatic perfection. So, it’s a choice: more time in post, or better result out of camera. That’s why people are concerned with DR.
Thank you for finally being the one to mention bracketing
In most scenes I'll definitely use brackets for a majority of my work . You buy this camera for the faster read out and better focus . I just hope one day a manufacturer will give me a true dedicated stills camera with no video
Great focus and solid dynamic range and take care of long exposure noise .
I could care less for videos and I know a majority of people want a camera to do everything but I want a stills camera a true stills camera where the entire focus is centered around great performance and image quality
Quiero lo mismo.
@@pacoperezabella Tambien.
Me too. So far the more recent iPhones at 4K 30 or 60 fps are just fine for my mostly non-existent video needs.
Spot on. Every time I watch these reviews they spend half the time on the cameras video capabilities I wonder how much tech is wasted on that function that I'll never ever use.
I never shoot video with my DSLR or Mirrorless. Definitely appreciate a pure still photo camera all day long.
When you test, I would be very interested in the Z6III vs Z8, since most of my work is wildlife and sports.
Can you use nx studio to do the comparison? New sensor so Lightroom may not be optimized for it yet. This is probably why canon bakes their raws with noise reduction, so they are not dependent on 3rd party raw interpreters to “get it right”
Why not do every single test for every person. Come on guys!!!
@@jmp622using the manufacturers raw converter to compare raws should be standard test methodology.
I would see the same test between the z8 and z6 III. PLEASE
As per the test ISO 800 onwards dynamic range are identical for both the sensor and in darker situation I would prefer to increase the ISO rather capturing a dark photo and recover shadow in post processing. So for me there are no or very rare practical application in real life..
Well he explained the situations for wedding or landscapes. For portraits you are a horrible photographer if you shoot them at 800 ISO.
@@Pochi1 Well you're also a horrible photographer/editor if you find yourself needing to pull up the shadows as much as we see in this video, lol.
I would love to see a DR compare of the Z6iii with the Z8. (did the Z8 make a similar reduction in DR with it's stacked sensor?) Thanks for pointing out a weakness/engineering tradoff which they don't put in the ads.
Remember back in olden times when fill flash was a thing?
@@chuckhatcher5073 Have you ever applied fill flash on a mountain? Or a beach?
@@abhijit-sarkarhave you ever shot a magazine cover 5 stops under exposed ? 🤣 test was ridiculous!
@@michaelmalodrums9674 lol, although TBH, this isn’t the camera intended for that kind of work. It lacks the resolution, and the improved AF as well as high frame-rate are both not very useful for studio work.
@@abhijit-sarkaryou can use any camera for studio work.
@@abhijit-sarkar that’s true but you have the Z 8 or 9 for that and a ton of other companies cameras .
Did you do the test with the mechanical shutter or the electronic shutter? I read that you loose dynamic range when you use the electronic shutter....
Mechanical shutter
Very important video. Thnx Tony.
Don't know if someone mentioned it below but could you test the Z6III on Astro? If low light is a problem, how would it work on night shots / astro photography?
I shoot aurora all the time and start out with 1600 ISO but shoot as high as 5000. I'm interested in this question too. Based on the charts on photons to photos, the z6ii is a little better.
The SNR is still probably very good. DR is more about editing latitude.
do not confuse DR with Low light performance.
The nikon d800e had and still has the best DR out of all the cameras on the market, but the low light performance was pretty shitty.
or a Hasselblad H4D -50/60 has amazing DR but can't go over iso 200 without falling apart.
the nikon z6ii doesn't have stellar DR either. but it's the best low light camera i ever shot. and i have a d5 and a d4s.
@@Juventinos fair. I used to have a d5, great camera, but liquidated it to buy a Z9. Safe to say DR is for 'fixing' (pushing/pulling) photos? Just use SNR and high noise capability to get it right imo. I've never had an issue lifting shadows up to 2 stops on any nikon raw file. Not sure who's pushing these files so hard lol
Thanks for taking the time to put this together; good info. It would be interesting to see the results with iso set to 800
In the Z6 and also Z6ii, when you remove a lens cap in bright sunlight, it take 3-5 seconds for the exposure to adjust, so you effectively cannot use the camera for quick photos. Alternatively, you can keep the lens cap off entirely. This problem does not happen with any other cameras such as the D750 in liveview or any typical Olympus/Lumix camera.
Is this still a problem with the Z6iii?
Shocked about the noise in your test wildlife footage!
Great review, very promising camera for the price. I would like to know about the available bitrates for the h264 and h265 video formats. Could you make a video with this information and the camera's performance in low light video?
I'd like you to test focusing performance for fast moving subjects. Do we finally have a mid range mirrorless from Nikon to use for sports photgraphy? And, is improved focusing performance across the board, or just with Nikon's new lenses?
The Sony a9 III received a lot of criticism for this. It turns out that noise and DR is a toll on the high speed sensor. Manufacturers also dose power and functions in this way so that individual models do not compete with each other. So the Z6 II is not worse than the Z6 III, it's just different.
“It’s just different” another way to avoid “Facts”. Something Nikon shooters love to do.
@@alphaandomega2709 I've been shooting with Sony for many years, never owned a Nikon. I'm just trying to evaluate it objectively. I fully agree that Nikon users are mostly biased (just like MFT users, for example) :-)
The a9 III is a special purpose camera for special requirements. That's where it excels, and where some other criteria such as DR are less important and forgivable.
However, with the Z6 III, it is a different and much broader market segment.
There, it is not forgivable (from a marketing / marketability perspective), to offer a solution for 2024-2028 which is inferior to its competition (current and/or upcoming), with regards to both
- dynamic range, and
- image resolution.
Please do a comparison on z8 and Z6iii for wildlife video and stills. Should i be going for the big guns and spend the money or not?
Do you need crop-ability or shooting in dark scenarios ability? That's the deciding factor.
So, I'm still using two original Z6's for weddings. I've learnt to work around the autofocus over the years, preferring back button focusing methods and custom settings. I'm intrigued by the new offerings from Nikon. Especially with the exceed 7 processors. My work, as always, is printed in albums 12" x 12" and occasionally, I'll have 24"x12" single image spread. I've always been impressed with the dynamic range recovery of the original Z6 but I do feel I'm missing out on the autofocus capabilities. However, I'm getting the impression there seems to be a trade off between autofocus speed v dynamic range with the new generation cameras.
Therefore, without losing out on Dynamic range flexibility would I be better off with a Z6ii, Zf or Z8? I was leaning towards the Z8 but the Zf (with ergonomic grip) seems more comparable from a file size and sensor similarities.
I hope you test the handheld video. I really dislike a monopod and would love to be able to handheld get wildlife video clips.
Cheers.
Hi Tony thanks for the vid. I have seen in some chinese Z63 reviews, they mentioned about N-log issue when there is a strong blue colors, there would be a bluish color cast and also in low light parts of videos there is quite a bit of noise. In ur full review would appreciate if you can you test these claims. thanks
Will do... but yes, I've had that experience just shooting HLG. Base ISO is 400, and shadows are distractingly noisy. I've been struggling with correcting the color cast without realizing it might be something specific to the camera.
Other reviewers test it down to 5 stops underexposed and it’s neck and neck with the Z6ii before you see a difference at 6-7. Honestly who actually underexposes that much. I don’t see an issue at all with the trade off in an otherwise unused underexposure range for level of speed capability that will be used. It comes off as a very practical engineering decision and not a defect. A9iii got beat up for this at first until real world use cases show if you just get exposure correct like you should, it doesn’t matter. And for that camera you get 120fps RAW which is a great trade off.
shooting into a sunrise or sunset is 11-14 stops. You can see the noise in the shadows of the wildlife clips I captured, even though I added heavy noise reduction. The poor dynamic range will totally be visible in high contrast scenes shot in raw, log or HDR where the subject is in shadow. It's about the performance of an APS-C sensor.
@@TonyAndChelsea APS-C is perfectly adequate to take sunrise and sunset photos. This seems like an extreme test where you found the worse DR output you could and compared the cameras to the best DR output at base ISO you could. How does it compare to other similar sensor technology that's stacked or global?
Interested to learn if the z6iii is as good as the z6ii for astrophotography. Based on this video, I’m assuming not.
Over 1200iso it performs better than my D750 and I rarely shoot below that at gigs/club nights where lighting is always awful. I'd be interested to see how AF performs in this scenario - dark events, lots of movement, flashing saturating lighting, high iso. Does AF work or just single point focus and recompose? High iso video performance?
The AF will be as good as Z8/Z9, in this scenario maybe even better as the z6iii is rated to -10 EV where the z8/9 are -9 EV. Lower EV in darker scenarios.
@Tony, it's a pity that we don't know if this test was done in Electronic or Mechanical shutter mode. Fast cameras increase readout speeds in Electronic shutter mode at the compromise of DR but slow down in Mechanical shutter to provide a "normal" DR. Not sure if the Z6III does this as well.
Mechanical
@@TonyAndChelsea Thanks for the clarification and this test. Exactly the kind of review consumers need to make an informed decision.
Compare it with the Z8 also. People might want to make the jump and pay some more if the difference is noticeable enough.
I'd argue the following video does a far better job of showing the difference of IQ under far more realistic/real-world conditions:
"Nikon Z6II vs Nikon Z6III - Image Quality Review" by ZJ Michaels.
His results are certainly far less dramatic, however, that's because his compositions involve far more realistic overall lighting conditions and relevant/resulting exposures. That meant that even areas in relative shadow, even when underexposed by 5 stops and then recovered, had far more photons being collected than in your studio setup.
In short, your studio test showed what we already knew from PhotonsToPhotos, the Z6iii has slightly less DR than other full frame cameras in its class. However, your choice to perform this DR test in a setup that results in a low SNR capture for all sensors involved, makes the problem look far worse than it actually is. It amplifies it.
To be clear, I'm not calling poor lighting unrealistic, but shining a spotlight on one subject while holding the second in relative darkness in an environment with little to no ambient light, and expecting to get clean signal from the latter is not realistic. Sure, it can be the basis of this test, and it does show a difference between the various sensors, but it's skewing what we already know about the Z6iii's DR. This skewed result is making it look far worse than it really is. Meanwhile you're creating a panic and I'm reading so many comments on this video where people are planning to now return or not buy the camera that they had otherwise planned to buy.
Again, I'm not denying it has less DR, but you're amplifying that difference in DR. Do the same tests under real world conditions (just as I've been doing and as ZJ has done) and you'll find that the differences are harder to see. If anything, when pushed 5 stops, the Z6/ii have a magenta tint.
I'll close by saying I could definitely see the difference in DR between my 5Diii and my D750, but the difference between my Z6 and Z6iii are not nearly as noticeable. However, I wouldn't believe that if I didn't know any better and watched this video. In the long term that only hurts your brand. And FWIW, I've watched you for 13+ years (since your old star trails videos).
I'd love to see a comparison between RAW video and MP4 as well as hear some audio recorded straight into the camera. I remember preamps in a lot of cameras were an absolute insult to the ears and I hope Nikon has improved.
Interesting - thanks for this - did you use electronic shutter or mechanical? I'm wondering if it makes any difference - e.g. with electronic does it introduce more noise over time because the sensor is "live" all the time during the whole testing window (potentially making the most underexposed images even worse since I presume they are taken at the end of the test window) vs maybe not when using mechanical?
mechanical
as someone whos a concert photographer and deals with low light instances. should I sell my a7iii and get the z6iii cause with this review I'm seeing the z6iii is looking terrible for low light.
Does the Z6iii have the manual focus assist tools of the Zf which detected eyes? I was really interested in that and up until now no one mentioned if it has. Maybe try it with a manual lens?
Yes, it has. According to dpreview
@@peterprotim9083 thanks!
I would like to know how does the AF compare with Z7II, when they are now at a similar price point.
At 1:15, I’d argue shooting fast swimmers backlit against the sun is harder than wildlife. Water glare and the swimmer going under water and only popping up for a split second makes for difficult auto focusing.
Ok valid point
I would be interested to see how the Z6III stacks up (pun intended) against other camers from Sony, Canon, etc. Also curious to see how it compares the ZF. It seems like the ZF may have more DR, because the sensor is not stacked.
It is helpful to see a comparison like this. Charts are useful and necessary, but seeing it in an example is perhaps more helpful in the end.
Is it though? No one is pulling up the shadows like we see in this example. No one.
@@bluemystic7501 That’s not the point I’m seeing. It’s not about the test. It’s about seeing the result of the stress test. It’s the same reason computer hardware is stress tested. Not because people are going to run them like that everyday, but because it shows you the limits.
@@JasonOverHere I'd argue that's not how this information was presented. Let's be honest, the recovered detail out of the jet black shadow looked like trash across the board, which is what we'd all expect at 300%.
The dynamic range on the Z9 is just as shit compared to th Z7ii, why aren't you talking about that?
Actually, there are options to overcome dynamic range. Lighting is at the core of it. It depends just what degree of ambient light available when you're shooting? If indoors, bump it up with more lights, possibly white. Software adjustment could also be done in lightroom too. It really depends on situation?
To me, this new body is a blessing to the masses. For the price point against features offered, I say its a fair deal
Agreed, I bought one! I did a photoshoot with it already. The photos look great. I was shooting in the Golden and blue and hours. No Flash.
@@williambuford6136 At what ISO were you shooting with? I ber you were using aperture priority?
For me, I'm totally okay with losing a stop of dynamic range as a trade off for better auto-focus and faster sensor readout in video (ie less rolling shutter), all for $2500. So there's definitely a market segment for this camera and I think it'll be a hit. But yeah, Nikon should have been more upfront with this from the get-go and this would have been a non-issue, instead of turning into a big story on the internet.
Why didn't you make a special video like this to talk about the DR of the a9iii compared to a cheaper product, saying that it would be a problem?
We made multiple videos about that.
I'd be curious about a real comparison with the X-2HS given your reference to a 1-stop penalty (and Photons to Photos' comparison chart). On paper, pairing the Fuji with their faster primes looks kind of like a better/cheaper bet.
I would love to see AF performance testing of the Z6III vs Zf
I'm currently wity a D750 thunkung of upgrading to mirrorless. My most extreme use case for the canmera is taking photos of my daughter in theater/ballet, so would it be better to go for a Z5 then a Z6 mkI or II?
Well I'd pick the Z6 III because I think the better autofocus will be helpful. You probably have pretty even indoor light so dynamic range shouldn't be an issue.
DXO used to do the DR tests. Why have they stopped doing their tests?
DXO has always been unreliable for that kind of testing
They say that the EOS M and 5D mark III have 11.2-11.7 stops of total dynamic range but thru my own testing and that max low light ISO to be ISO 688-800.
I've found out that it's a lie so they're not really reliable. Photobs to photos is much more accurate
@@shueibdahir thats not sayint much esp when tha a6k 3rd gens have a massive 0,5 stop diff between a couple of them
Does it really have a serious problem? Is it noticable in real shooting scenarios?
I watched videos from other YT who took sports and wildlife pictures in low and high ISO and the pictures looked perfectly good. They even mentioned that they liked the raw files and the dynamic range.
I have currently the Z6 and according to the graph the Z6III has round about 0.6 less dynamic range and from ISO 800 they are basically the same. Honestly i dont know if i personaly will see a difference. Especially when shooting sports and wildlife.
But apparently for some photographers its a big deal.
And every camera has some trade offs . The R6II shots 12bit raw in ES and A7IV shots compresed RAW when shooting 10fps. But do those trade offs really matter in reality and do most people even notice those?
It's different for everyone. Depends on how you shoot and process. Just want to make sure people have the info they need to make an educated decision.
So I pre-ordered the Z6iii.... It's unopened on my camera shelf. Now, since I don't do video, and since I have a Z8, I might leave it unopened. I love my Z6ii for hiking and walking around. I don't think I need the focusing speed, but I thought it was TOTALLY better. Evidently not for me. I'm going to keep looking for Dynamic Range Reviews. You've been honest and struck a cord with me. My Z6ii does a great job. I had planned to keep it for low light and "snapshots." I think I'll return the Z6iii and replace it with the 135mm f/1.8 Plena. Probably a better choice for $2500. Thanks Tony! PS: Love the choice of books for the test. I recognized the cover. Love its content!
I suggest you watch the following video:
Search "Nikon Z6II vs Nikon Z6III - Image Quality Review" by ZJ Michaels.
Tony chose to do this test under very low light because he knew it would yield a much more dramatic result than one done under real world conditions (for example DR of landscape or even studio portrait photography). Ask yourself how many photos you take where you are taking the photo in a room with near zero ambient light, forcing a spotlight on one subject while expecting then expecting to recover usable results from a subject in complete darkness. Not many.
Sure, that tests DR, but you can test DR under far more realistic lighting conditions and get a cleaner result simply because you are going to be collecting more photons in even the shadowed portions of the photograph. I'd argue that is a fairer test because it represents the vast majority of DR tests.
Legit, Tony is presenting the DR of the Z6iii as if it is inferior to the original 5Diii, and as someone who owned the 5Diii, it has far less DR, on the order of 2 stops, not some fraction of a stop at an already high DR.
As far as those APS-C sensors, they also have limited ISO range let alone DR at higher ISO.
FWIW, I like Tony. I've watched his videos for over 12 years, but he's far more beholden to the algorithm than he is to reporting this factual drop in DR between the Z6/ii and the Z6iii using real world tests that are far less dramatic than the test he chose. Consider that before you return that Z6iii and regret it later. The AF on in the Z6iii is next level. Trust me, your Z6ii is very much limited when it comes to AF.
@@ElGrecoDaGeek thanks for the tip. I watched it. It leaves me at the same spot. If I don't need video, and I have a Z8 for sports and landscapes, why should I keep the Z6iii? I do think the 8-Stop IBIS is a big plus, but I have been OK with the 5 stops... I do have a 3 year warranty on my used Z6ii with 18 months left. I think I benefit more from the 135mm f/1.8 Plena than keeping the Z6iii. Your thoughts?
I would like to see better test examples. This was silly, and if a large amount of professionals these days actually rely on pulling 6 stops in post, then today's professionals are absolute derps.. but hey, this is RUclips right
Sunsets and sunrises. Backlit wildlife. Backlit portraits. Event photography with uncontrolled lighting and people with both bright white skin and very dark skin. There are many scenarios where deep shadow recovery is the only way to capture images similar to what the human eye would perceive. The human eye is capable of closer to 20 stops of DR.
@@TonyAndChelsea sorry I am a pro portrait and people photographer… if I do a portrait and have to pull so much I have no idea what I am doing. There is a reason why professionals like us are using diffusion, flash etc.
Agreed this is garbage and worse example ever.
I must admit to being shocked........
Few years ago, I almost bought a Nikon Z5 but reviews decried it as as being even worse than the Canon RP.
Carried on waiting while the Nikon Z6 and Z6II were similarly panned for various reasons only to discover here that the four year old Nikon Z5 is actually better than the Nikon ZIII.
Wow, I'll just stick to my ancient Sansung phone.
Thank's for this video, but why do you not testing the difference of dynamic range for the Z6II and the Z6III? It is lore intresting for the custumos.
Well, how does it compare to the R6II or A7IV?
The A7iv wins for DR, loses for speed.
Can you Please review the New Pentax Camera?
A camera that says "bokeh" instead of "A" (Aperture priority) on the mode dial does not deserve being reviewed by tony
@@alexandremoreira599 It should say ton eh
Can you please not, Tony
Try to expose above pitch black. Problem solved lol. If you're raising shadows in a wedding or nightlife..You're raising it at most 1-2 stops. You're fine.
And you're likely above iso 800 as is, which is where the z6iii is the same as competition on that chart. Compare at iso 1600 and raise it 6 stops.
Yeah, there are many scenarios where it won't matter, and many where it does. Hopefully this gives you the info you need to determine whether the camera is suitable for how you shoot.
Exactly lol
Please test super low light af with same or similar lenses between z6, z6iii, z8, sony and canon
Hi, very interested why are you shooting HLG video instead of shooting LOG and then grading in HDR.
Is there any particular advantage to this?
Or do you just need the files in HDR straight away for other reasons?
I'd guess to be more efficient. Grading log takes a fair bit of time, with HLG you get a usable image straight out of camera.
Well the answer is that I haven't thought it through but I publish it HDR (outside of the studio). But maybe log is a better way to film.
The question is, how does it compare to the A74, prob soon to be replaced by the A75 with an even better Dynamic Range.
Highly doubt that. You won't be seeing dynamic range improvements for years until sensors start resolving 16bit worth of DR. I don't see that being possible without dual gain output
The a7v is a semi stacked 33mp aswell.
The a7iv's 33mp is slow as hell , thats why it doesnt compromise much in dr
The "problem" is, already the 3 years old the A7 IV of 2021 is fast enough for 99.999% of photos.
The remaining 0.001% are only the few photos showing a baseball player hitting a ball.
Which is 0.000% outside of the US 😉
OK, I'm exaggerating a little, but for the majority of photo subject areas, it actually matters ZERO indeed. Most don't like that the Z6 III would be a sub-par solution with regards to combining
- sub-par dynamic range, with
- sub par sensor resolution
- price surcharge for some video corner cases, whereas too many have ZERO interest in video at all, and are annoyed by the pricing.
@@tubularificationed The problem as I see it is that the A7IV is good for weddings but not great! Same for any video work. It's quite adequate but in some cases it's just not good enough.
@@tubularificationed sub par? I use a 11 year old Canon 700D/Rebel T5i with 11.2 stops of DR professionally and i rarely encounter situations where DR is an issue
I looked at the Canon R5, and the Nikon Z6III in Photons to Photos and they are is neck and neck, very close depending on the iso, Iso 318 they are the same, then at iso 800 the R5 and Z6iii are the same all the way to the max iso. But R5 uses noise reduction from base to iso 650. Same thing with the R3 but the R3 uses noise reduction through it's whole range. Nikon D850 still beats everybody.
ISO 318???!
@@northofbrandon that's the number Photons to Photos had in their chart. I know it's ASA 320.
I got the Z6iii this week. Great focus, body and Nikon af. One issue I have is the EVF. I cant get it to be sharp. And yes I have turned the diopter multiple times. Somehow it seems as if the display is very noisy. Even at low ISO. I shoot my Z8 side by side and it looks like the better EVF. But dots wise it’s not. Any tips??
Oh I dunno. I Love The evf.
@@TonyAndChelsea I seem to not get it sharp. Hope there is nothing wrong my copy.
Is leica d- lux 8 better, fuji Xt5 than nikon z6 iii for street photography. I know its apples to oranges but my need is just to replace the phone .
Get the xt5. Fairly small camera and Fuji has compact lenses. While I shoot raw I still use film recipes and edit a tad if need be. Any of those choices would be fine, depends what feels good in hand and how big of a set up you want to carry
If you don't care about resolution, leica seems to be by far the best option for street due to it's size and price. x-t5 is great, but you have to pay extra for couple lenses to cover the focal range that leica would give you. z6iii seems to be the worst option for street out of 3. Biggest size, most expensive and is video focused rather. I would get leica. Actually I might as well get it myself, it looks great for the price. If all you care about street and picture quality, I would go xt-3 or xt-4 used with some f2 lens. That will be plenty for street and will give you better results than you'd ever need. And with the money saved, you might as well go for top tier fuji glass.
@@a97b18b thx for you prompt reply. Any thoughts on Fuji X vi. Will it be better than leica d lux 8. All I care about is to take the photos streets and buildings, family trip and little birds photography . And get them printed in a 6x4 size and some little larger like A2 size.
Just get the Nikon Zf
Love to see a compare between Sony A7 IV.
ISO 800 and up seems good according to the chart. And at least in my wildlife photography I’m usually at iso 400 or higher and even in the rare occasions I do shoot at base iso the DR is good enough. For me, the camera is on a shortlist and I’m looking forward to your review.
Well, it's more like DR is pretty bad at high ISOs for all cameras. That's why DR is generally evaluated at the base ISO. But yeah, if you can't get a longer shutter speed and lower ISO (something wildlife photographers should definitely strive for) than it's a wash.
But a higher megapixel camera would definitely benefit you.
@@TonyAndChelsea Agreed. Currently shooting with an XT-5 and the XF 150-600. The resolution is nice, but the AF and bugs are driving me nuts. Just this morning the af joystick stop working until a restart then the camera froze. Had to remove the battery to get it going again. So it’s time to switch, it’s between Sony and Nikon for me, canon wildlife lenses are a lot more expensive here compared to Nikon and Sony.
This video does a great job of illustrating the significance of a .8 stop reduction in DR. Camera makers seem to be favoring readout speed over DR with recent camera models. This is the exact opposite of how I would prioritize these two aspects of a sensor. What is notable here is the amount of the reduction. I really worry about this same issue with the R5 Mark II. Canon's sensors are already at a DR disadvantage compared to Sony.
Tony, I have a perfect topic/controversy for you. A German photographer/reviewer pointed out that the 5.6 mio. high-resolution viewfinder is only for static overlays, icons, menu and playback - not for liveview. He discovered that image quality looks the same as the old resolution viewfinder on the Z6/7II and worse than the Z8. He also discovered tracing/trailing effects (when the movemenet is faster then the evf can process) and Moiré in some cases - all things the Z8/9 have not probably due the faster processor. Only brightness, DCI-P3 and contrast seems to be better than in the Z8/9. Can you confirm that?
Z5 Z6 Z7 Z8 with multiple versions verges on range bloat. Great for reviewers and professional photographers but what about non-pro enthusiasts? Tried searching for what percentage of Nikons are bought by professionals, couldn't find a statistic. Can you help?
That's an important point! Buying a 24 MP full frame camera in 2024 suggests very high DR. I would have prefered that over half stacked (baked).
And you are probably representing the vast majority of the intended market segment here.
Most are image quality oriented, and moan the coupling of
- sub-par dynamic range, with
- sub-par resolution
for the next four years 2024-2028.
I'm afraid the the next A7 iteration (A7 V is due already in 2025) will make the Z6 III (low-res/low-DR) look VERY bad.
ridiculous take.
even from 2012 the nikon d800e had better dinamic range than the nikon d4. Actually the nikon d800e still has the best dynamic range out of all the cameras on the market today (- medium format of course) .
lower megapixel cameras have better noise performance, but they never ever had better dynamic range. the Z7 has better dynamic range than the Z6ii but the z6ii has better low light performance than the nikon d5!
Well over the top and blown out of proportion. It only make a very small difference below ISO 800 and if you cant deal with it in editing then there's something wrong with you.
They are dropping the price of the Z8, is there another model coming so soon?
I would like to see low light performance comparisons
I had also problems with the new viewfinder. I was at the beach trying to photograph swallows in the air. It was rainy and cloudy. Light grey was the main color. What I recognized was a light reddish gradient in the viewfinder. Maybe that occured because of my anti-reflective glasses that I was wearing. Maybe my glasses reflects the light of the viewfinder back to the screen so the red gradient occured. But I am no phycisist. Did anybody else experience something similar?
Hmm. I actually felt like the viewfinder was the best I'd ever used for wildlife. It seems HDR? Like an HDR TV. I thought it was gorgeous.
Would have been interesting to see the z7ii compared at the matching iso 100 instead of 64.
Always love learning stuff from you guys. Thanks for the info!
Our pleasure!
Nikon Fangirls 2014: "Nikon cameras have the best dynamic range."
Nikon Fangirls in 2024: "who CaReS aBoUt DyNaMiC rAnGe All hAIL nIkOn."😅😅😅
Appreciate the info
@TonyAndChelsea
tl;dr Could you please repeat the test with both subjects lighted a few stops higher?
I really like that you made the effort to design a reproducible test for this phenomenon. It really shows the technical differences and, as you said, it is up to anyone to determine the real world impact on their photography for themselves.
For this, you chose a generally pretty dark scene with one correctly illuminated subject and one extremely underexposed. That lead to a situation, where you had very few photons in the dark areas. Looking at my pictures with very high dynamic range I mostly have normal exposed subject, with very bright highlights (sky, sun, etc) and dark shadows. So it would be interesting to see the dynamic range between (almost) clipping highlights and the dark shadows. You might test this with a third book lighted very bright or just overexposing the bright book until almost clipping and then editing to bring both books to normal exposure.
Thank you, I always like your insightful videos.
What about z8 as an option to address this issue ?
DR and autofocus are obviously both important for photo and video. For my genre of photography i.e. travel and portraits, DR is very critical for my needs. I think it comes down to what is more important to a particular style or genre of photography and video needs. Thanks for the stimulating and informative topic.
nikon has always had a low mpx camera that has low light capability, and a high megapixel camera for maximum DR. that has always been the case. i have the z6ii best low light camera i ever shot. but the dr on it is ok to good. better than a sony A73, but that camera was mediocre too.
for DR i have a GFX. i am spoiled i admit.
I watched al lot of reviews( Polin, Peta Pixel, Gerald Undone, Matt Granger etc.) who really used and tested the camera.And that was the reason to buy it and the Z6II is better than its predecessor in nearly every othere way and is the best overal camera in its class. It is not a Z8 or Z9 or a new Z7III and has a very sharp price.The Dynamic Range is for me nothing be concerned about with this camera.
That's fine if the DR is enough for you. However, others have other requirements. They would reject a camera with a dynamic range and a resolution like 10 to 20 years ago.
After all, it is also marketing and psychology. People just want the best for their budget. It doesn't help to say, "look, with a Z6 III you can still do pretty pictures, as well". Pentax tried that before, but they failed because they were simply inferior.
I think you have tested how adobe color profile works with RAW from 2 different cameras.
This is a known disadvantage of stacked sensors. Z9 at ISO64 has lower dynamic range than age old D800 at ISO100. Z6 III has exact same dynamic range as Z9 at ISO100. Its just Z9 can go to ISO64 for improved dynamic range and Z6 can't.
Thanks for clarifying. I was wondering why it seemed like my D800 had better range than my Z9.
Or the Z7 for that matter. Clearly, he is trying to make a storm of nothing, and then will be crying with Nikon excludes him. Notice that Nikon does not exclude Jarred Polin, so that gives you an idea of the degree.
@@jaimeduncan6167yes because he sugarcoat it. Companies loves journalists like that
This is not an issue with the Canon R3, so its not all stacked sensors
Not really, the A1 doesn’t seem to have that much lower DR vs A7R4 or the A7S3. Chances are Nikon is using a Sony sensor that Sony shelved and weren’t willing to put into their cameras.
Just watch a real life video on DR. I.e Taking a photo of a real object. Virtually no difference from the Z6ii. In fact, the Z6iii showed much better shadow recovery.
The Z6 II will have much better shadow recovery
was considering to upgrade to Z6III from a Z5, now I dont know. :(
Actually, I'd like to see it tested against whatever Lumix is price competitive with it these days. I don't know for sure what model that would be because prices change so much.
It'd be the S5iiX. Or the regular S5ii if you don't care about the few extra video features the X gives you. Both use the Sony IMX410 which is used in the A7III, Z6, Z6III, and probably the Z5 shown here.
The s5iii and the a7v will eventually use z6iii's advancement
Can I order the "I Shoot RAW" T-Shirt?
X-Large?
There's crop on 1080 especially on 60 fps and less can't understand why most the options comes with crop the old z6 didn't do it and the Z8 which shared same processor doesn't crop as well even with the larger 45mb sensor on it, it's disappointing
You should compare it against the SONY A9 III, the direct competitor for the Nikon users at half the price.
They're definitely not direct competitors (the a9 III has 0ms readout speed and does 120 FPS raw, full-width). But the a9 III has worse dynamic range. You can compare any two cameras here: www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm
The a9 III is a special purpose camera for special requirements. That's where it excels, and where some other criteria such as DR are less important and forgivable.
However, with the Z6 III, it is a different and much broader market segment.
There, it is not forgivable (from a marketing / marketability perspective), to offer a solution for 2024-2028 which is inferior to its competition, with regards to
- dynamic range, and
- image resolution.
@@tubularificationed I agree! I would not buy the Z6 III. I feel like this is recicled tech, and not even true stack3d sensor.