A Recent 8-Card PSA Order (Modern & Vintage) With Predictions and Financial Breakdown
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- Опубликовано: 13 окт 2023
- BASEBALL CARD COLLECTOR INVESTOR DEALER (in that order)
Chris Sewall here.
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Chris, that Griffey is Awesome.. I completely agree with you that you can get more than 1K especially with the Low Pop count.
If only there was a grading company that provided detailed notes on why a card got graded that way
There is but it's not a major company and they don't sell great. They started up in the last 2yrs but I can't remember the company name. Maybe TAG? Retrohoops on youtube had a video on them and used their services
@@DumpsterDivin_TyThe company’s name is “TAG” .
TAG and DSG both do that. They both have their pros and cons. For personal collections they are both excellent though. DSG has imo the most consistent grading of any company, along with the best quality plastic used in their slabs.
BGS subgrades?
FCG Forensic Card Grading
No way that JJ and the Herbert gold are 7s, gotta love PSA's inconsistency. I guarantee either PSA damaged the card(cause thats happened to me before)or you can send to SGC and probably get a 9.5 or 10. No one holds PSA accountable for their BS, and we just keep accepting their grading method of "throw a dart and see where it lands" and thats the grade you will receive. The hobby is soooo under PSA's spell they can do no wrong.
It's up to us to do something about it. Stop giving them our business. But we keep making excuses for them. We have the power to change things if "we " decide to. Or we can keep accepting their BS!!
They have a great grift going. They call all the shots, don't provide any reason/rubric for a why a card graded the way it did, have shown virtually no consistency over time...yet people keep sending them cards.
TAG fixes this
@@user-dv6dg5gu6d What would stop someone, though from sending a card to TAG than cracking the slab, resubmitting to PSA, SGC or BGS?
There day is coming trust me. There are govt agencies looking into their business practices as we speak.
@@ACD1994what would be the point of that when grades are assigned by PSA without rhyme or reason. Could have a TAG Pristine and it could turn into a PSA 8
@@ACD1994 that wouldn’t make sense. People send to TAG because they don’t trust the subjectivity of the other grading companies. How you trust a grading company to be honest with grading when they actively acknowledge that population control is one of their priorities
Grading companies have no consistency whatsoever when it comes to grading. It's basically a shot in the dark. And the fact that they charge $75 is a complete joke.
I feel like that’s why TAG is the future
Yea- was thinking the same thing. Would you consider cracking the cards that came back low and sending to Beckett? Attest they provide more clarity on their grading
@@peted203or at least their grading process, take the human error element out of the equation. If TAG starts to take off, the other graders will adopt the same process and then PSA will still be king because of their name and how much more value their graded cards have.
@@peted203I like “Tag” also. An objective computer program that gives you all the reasons the card got the grade it did. PSA has screwed collectors long enough. It’s the power brokers who keep PSA alive; they know their cards are going to get the high side of the grade due to back room agreements they have for submitting so many cards. Plus $75 buck grading fee is insulting.
@@bruisermoorePSA would do everything in their power, including buying TAG, to stop them from having to explain grades. They intentionally downgrade cards to keep the pop reports 9 and 10’s low. Look how many rookie Fernando Valenzuela cards have been graded with no 10’s….it’s a joke.
Congratulations on the Griffey, Chris. Even with the misses, you are way ahead.
the surfaces of many of these modern cards are so busy and distracting there's no way I could guess consistently on grades. with vintage, it's far more what you see is what you get. thanks for sharing the numbers!
Great point
As always, I enjoy the transparency, the breakdowns, and the final result of these. Thanks for being so open, and for putting this together, Chris. 👍
This video confirmed it for me.
Right now I guest paying $19 for TAG service over $19 for my standard PSA subscription
Guessing the Herbert and Jefferson are dimpled. I have had so many Panini products come back 7 or 8 and after deep looks there were dimples. Something with their printing process
I just dropped off an 3-card SGC order at the post office. It was from 2023 Bowman Chrome University football. So modern chrome stuff. Glad I decided against waiting months for PSA with a chance they will mis-grade them. If it's any consolation, you made me feel better about that choice today Chris 😸
Love your videos. I always learn something.
I've been watching these videos for a long time and from what I can tell, Chris has got the order all wrong. He appears to be a Baseball Card Dealer, Investor, Collector... in THAT order ;)
The order is in reference to when I became each thing. I started off as a pure collector for 10+ years. Then I started investing. And now I am a full time dealer.
Chris, I love these ‘reveal’ vids of yours, esp hearing your thought process. I think it’d be cool to consider a “What’s Next?” piece to end-cap these segment - as in, what’s next for that card? Sell/Crack/Resubmit/Keep, etc. Think you had a few solid “crack” examples here, even though I know you don’t do that often. Thanks!
I would crack out the Herbert and Tatis and see if they come back higher could be a new grader as well.
I thought that exact same thing lol - and that herbert is niceeeeee
Yeah but you are down the grading fees and shipping also how much you paid for the card sometimes it just sucks to send to psa 🤷♂️
Forget sending it to PSA again. Don’t reward them for poor service.
Send it to TAG
Exactly why grading is a complete joke and rip off of the Hobby. My first question I would ask anyone with a high grade card is "Respectlfully.. How many times did you crack the case and resubmit until you got your 10?"
Listen, grading of anything, especially trading cards, is subjective on a card by card basis and all comes down to the grader that day so your not wrong in your thinking. What people need to understand is grading companies operate with no oversight. The cracking and resending is one thing that makes the population report anything but accurate, especially with modern cards. Those pop reports are insane already. It's not PSA's fault with those pop reports. The proper way to do this would be to assign a username or id to everyone that submits cards and making that public on the website. This would rule out certain people getting most top grades. Who sends the most cards to PSA for grading since day 1 and then who leads the pack annually? Without knowing that makes grading impossible to be transparent and ultimately fair. No one knows if graders are able to bring cards in for a fellow grader to slab their own. Could an executive give their best customer red carpet service such as mailing the package to their home? Absolutely. Does it happen? If it does not happen that would defeat the whole point of coming up with grading in the 1st place. Grading is a well to make money while adding subjective value to vintage cardboard/chromium modern picture cards of athletes. The hobby is relatively small compared to the population of the world. Has it grown? Yes. But just like with stocks and recently with crypto, the "retail investors" always get the short end of the stick while keeping the money scheme going until the bottom falls out. Everything operates on cycles. Growth can not be infinite but profit addicts think that is the case. Now we have young kids already thinking this way and it won't end well. The hobby has been taken over by the corporations in the worst way. Now they can print away. Remember Ferrari said they only produced a couple hundred Enzo Ferrari's...truth was...they lied. Greed is not a good thing. Everything is worth what the next person is willing to pay for it ultimately. Best of luck with the coming reset that fast approaches us all.
PSA grading is like a rollercoaster. That is why i prefer SGC, they are more consistant and serious about it.
Wow, that's some tough grades Chris. PSA latest version of their grading standards is just bonkers. Their pop report is their greatest asset. Definitely not a fan on the generic looking PSA slabs. Much prefer SGC & CSG slabs in appearance and durability.
I pretty much have at least one head scratcher 7 per order. I think it’s a new requirement for PSA.
I have seen that a number of times with the Greztky. Seems like that was a common occurrence for that set. That Griffey is an absolute dream card for sure! Just hold the 53 Jackie by the bottom corner with your thumb and you'd never notice. 😅
Getting ready for a card show watching old videos , and what do you know , new video
Chris, I have a 2020 Donruss Optic Justin Herbert orange refractor out of /199 that I sent to PSA. Like you with the Justin Jefferson, I looked the card over really well and thought it was a good contender for a 10. Also like you with the JJ, my Herbert came back a 7. It's a PC card so the grade doesn't matter as much as if I was going to turn around and sell it, but I still have no idea why it got a 7. I was thinking of breaking it out and sending it to TAG. Because it's a PC card I'm so not concerned about reduced resale value, and I'm really curious to see what their exhaustive scans on the card reveal. Perhaps that would make a good video for you if you get a few extremely low grades from PSA.
Love the videos. Keep up the great work.
Agree that you’re likely to get more for the Griffey. Probably closer to $1500
FCG DOES have grader notes (QR code on the back of the slab). $14/card, no up-charge for value, no minimum submission, 10 business day turnaround. Very tough graders (especially on surface). But have been very consistent and reliable. The accountability and customer service are phenomenal. Highly recommended.
Fcg doesn't add any value
that simply not true, PSA is extortion, the fix is in on their practices. A 10 is a 10 is a 10@@richardbianco9674
The card should be the value, not the grade or grading company
@@williampotts7205 but that isn't the case. Collectors and investors put trust in some form or another in mainly the big 3- psa, bgs sgc. Cgc is making strides to be a 4th. No other company is even close
That sucks about the Gretzky. There were so much cutting problems at the card factories then. The OPC card rough cuts. PSA takes that into consideration and can understand why they don't on mini size. Are you going to add the SP auto Griffey (10) to your PC. That card would bring big money on whatever auction site you would pick....big WOW!!
Ray Guy a common? The best punter in history and the only straight punter ever drafted number 1! 😂
That griffey is a blazer. Wow.
Tough one. But very interesting and informative. Good video.
These are tough to see especially knowing your expertise, getting 7s on cards you feel truly could 💎doesn't add up! Never does & I definitely feel your pain. Question on the Tatis, if you look at the 9:17 mark you can see 5 print lines coming down from the top. I'm not sure how far down they go, but safe to assume they're part of the reason for the drop? Curious on your take on Bowman Chromes in general because I feel like they've always been a relatively tougher grade, esp compared to Topps Chromes & most typically have these type of print lines on the front. And since their cards are so clean / shiny, the lines tend to stand out pretty easy. On the Tatis I see 2 lines just to the left of the bat head, 2 thru the helmet, & the 1 going thru his right eye.
Really appreciate your breakdowns & I am always looking forward to the great consistent content you put out. Thanks Chris!
Oh wow, great catch! I will have to look at that closer.
I’d love to see a report of some kind when cards return from PSA, but I fear it will never happen. Too inconsistent, and I think they know it
They will be including grader notes for big cards according to the PSA CEO. Not sure when it'll be rolled out though.
That is why I stopped using PSA!!! SGC is all I am submitting for now until PSA cleans up their grading
Chris, i watch all your vids and never have commented. Love em, keep em coming. I began sorting vintage versus Ultra modern PSA ordrs about a year ago. Ive seen better consistency whrn subs are only 2017-present, or 1989-older. Just my 2 cents worth. I dont mix vintage and Ultra in the same subs anymore.
Interesting. Thanks for that info.
As a Griffey collector it’s nice to just opt out of Reds cards
They Griffey in a 10 at the /100 is probably closer to a 4K card now.
I would crack the purple one out and resubmit . And I would sell the Gretzky in the min size labeled submission sleeve .
What would you want for the Gretzky ?
they have gotten extremely tough (next to impossible) on any refractor. The grade starts at a 9 and goes down very quickly it seems. So i am not surprised the Griffey (paper) got a 10.
hey Chris, I'll buy that herbert card from you!
The 1969 Mantle is very nice!
I have boxes of vintages cards(full sets) where do I get them graded .I for sure have some heat!!!
Very nice Griffey!
Just curious when you will be listing the Tatis, the Griffey is amazing!
I sent an order recently and got some strange low grades. I would be curious to see how resubmitting would turn out.
On that Jefferson is the stamping just a little off from the colors?
PSA is 💯 subjective with absolutely no continuity!
8:00 Justin Jefferson looks like it has a dimple on top right corner/border just above the purple. Not sure that would make drop to a 7 though🤷
Griffey is a beaut though! Congrats on that one!
Overall, not a horrible submission. Just a couple ??'s
This is EXACTLY why sub-grades matter. As much as I dislike BGS and PSA, at least with BGS I have an idea as to why the card received the grade it gets. I will NEVER understand why collectors think and allow PSA to be the top dog. Also, I’ve seen plenty of PSA tens that have obvious issues. Maybe people will eventually wake up and stop giving PSA the ability to scam people, while they give preferential treatment to collectors that have more status.
Hey Chris, I’m a huge fan, I watch all your videos! Unfortunately, it looks to me that Jefferson is OC top to bottom and left to right
Hey bro so how do I go about if I want some cards graded? How much does it usually run
im a huge griffey collector and yes mariners uni all the way Lol Thanks for the vids! I recently told my wife if i ever die unexpectedly to send my collection to you to buy lololol.... If that ever happens i hope you make a great video out of it LOL Hopefuly not for a long time
I appreciate that although I certainly hope it never comes to that.
PSA (and other grading companies that don’t sub grades) need to provide notes or explanations to the collectors to explain a grade, otherwise it’s meaningless. How else can you explain sending a card once and getting a 7 and another time and getting a 9 (in my case).
Min doesn't stand for mini 😂 means does meet minimum size requirements if I'm not mistaken
That Griffey 10 epic! Also I don't think anyone did first 🥇 that's a first...
I would try sgc they usually grade modern cards 1-2 grades higher
Hi Chris, thank you for the video. The grading was tough on the newer cards. I would like to know why you received those 7's. That is a nice Griffey auto. Hope to see you at the Chantilly show this coming week.
I'll be set up at Chantilly! Hope to see you there
Its ironic that just the other day PSA put a long video on their IG talking about a subgrade/graders notes feature thats coming next year but the CEO was also talking about how the individual grader "interprets " your card is where the grade comes from instead of a solid grading standard! I really couldnt believe believe this guy was saying some of the things he said. He clearly admitted they are practicing population control, at least on the "big cards"! Really unbelievable
Why does this really surprise anyone? How many times do you need to get hit on the head to figure it out?
What's surprising was that he admits it so freely, everybody knows their doing it
I would like to see you crack and submit the two you mention here and maybe a few more that were inexplicably low from previous videos. I would like you to send them back to PSA so we can see how consistent it is. Make a video out of your inspection after cracking with a microscope view for us. Fascinated to see what happens
Interesting idea...
I saw that PSA not only expects to have grader’s notes in the future, but that they are already keeping images/notes on cards they process. In other words, any serial numbered card SHOULD get the same grade or alterations caught during resubmissions.
They are not saying mini sized. They are saying minimum sized and that is a nice way of saying trimmed cards. The factory was not mini sizing cards. Maybe mis-cutting.
do you crack cases? seems some1 at PSA was salty when they graded your cards.
where are you posting the Herbert for sale?
Crack , resubmit and do a video on those cards. I feel like PSA is the worse at consistency. It would be interesting to see any difference.
I’ve sent some psa mini size to sgc and they graded 9.5. I suspect if you resubmitted the ultra modern the grades would be higher. My most recent 20 card psa order didn’t do well, 0 10s when I normally get 50% 10s.
Ha! Resubmit......another way OSA rips you off and takes from your wallet. The Grifter Con that keeps giving.
Ultra modern are so tough to grade. The grades always seem random.
So the moral of the video is buy PSA slabs and grade with companies that provide transparency.
Probably more than 1500 for that griffey tbh. Griffey, 10s are usually more then 4x the raw price. Sometimes more
So ignore this comment if you used the $75 level for timing, but the vast majority of these would have been perfectly fine to send in at the lower level. In my experience and others i've paid attention to, they aren't upcharging unless it ends up way over the declared value limit. You might as well save the $50 per card and just be happy to have them upcharge you upon having an awesome grade pop.
The Herbert looks off center left to right, but I could be wrong
LoL its like everytime you submit to PSA you get some rejection. I did a 75 card sub and didnt get any rejects guess i was just lucky… PSA with modern grading are out to lunch if anything BVG is more reasonable if you can believe that.
As much as it cost to grade cards all companies should give the main reasons why they grade what they grade! Is Tatis still worth putting stock into considering what he did with performance enhancing products?
Maybe finger prints? (Surface)
Would you assume those cards were graded already, cracked, and sold raw because of low grades?
Why do people even use PSA anymore? They’re scamming people. Giving whatever grades they want and not providing feedback on why they grade stuff what they do.
Maybe the Grader saw your Video when you purchased these refractor cards?🤔
What Would make you consider cracking it and resubmitting to a different grading company
If I thought it made financial sense. If I were to look over the Tatis and think it would get a BGS 9.5, then it would make sense to crack and send to BGS.
PSA seems to be doing that a lot with the Gretzky RC. I took one out of a BVG holder which was graded a 2.5 to have it put into a PSA holder and had the same results as you did. I wouldn't have cracked it if BVG was given the credit that it rightfully deserves on the market. Off to SGC it goes.
Good luck!!
Yeah I have had better luck with SGC than PSA on cards like that recently as well
Do you have any specific info regarding the Gretzky Opee-chee RC counterfeit card? Does it hold any type of value? Were both the topps and Opee Chee cards counterfeited?
They have both been counterfeited many times in many different ways. The counterfeits do not have any value.
Interested in the modern cards if you decide to move, thx 🙏
Hell I'd rather go with HGA than PSA. People need to wake up. Take back the HOBBY by not selling out just for a few bucks with PSAs grading. I don't see the other companies doing this stuff. Likely that 7 grade is a mistake that is ridiculous.
PSA grades based on the mood of the dealer that day.
That jefferson card is sick sorry for the pain of a 7 get them next time
This is why you never grade with PSA. Their grades make no sense and they offer no explanation. Always go with SCG, their grades are accurate and they grade the autograph free of charge.
and even moreso with FCG if you're a PC, because let's not kid ourselves.....PSA is extortion
Would you suggest sending in cards at a lower declared value, hoping for better or a higher declared value? Example..
1986 Topps Reggie White.
Yes I would send in a 1986 Reggie White at the lower level
i would crack and resend the ones with the low grades. You are not usually off that much, maybe the grader was having a bad day
Ouch, absolutely bruuuuuutal
And another thing (for borderless cards), how does PSA determine the “center” of a card if the company doesn’t provide the grading company with specifications? Maybe the player’s image is supposed to be slightly off center. Can anybody shed some light on this…?
Great question, I really don't know
It would be interesting to send the Herbert, Tatis and Jefferson (and any other questionable graded cards you got back from PSA) off to TAG and see why they graded so low compared to your expected.
True. Maybe Chris could do a video on that. It would be amazing to find out
Yes, this vs sending back to PSA. Cracking and sending back to PSA is EXACTLY what they want collectors to do. I can’t stand PSA and how they take advantage of the little guy but will give big name collectors nearly whatever grade the big names ask for. At least PSA is finally under investigation by the government. Hopefully they get shutdown and have to pay tens of millions in fines.
Nice video. Any plans to resubmit the cards that you aren't happy with grade wise?
I may consider that. Particularly on the Tatis and Jefferson.
I got to start one of these scams that ruined the hobby. No more PSA. GMM slabs. Give Me Money. Ill give everyone 9's and 10's...as long as they pay me.
PSA is your 50% partner in profit.
Paying PSA $75/card seems too risky, especially since PSA is more likely to disappoint. The seller fees ensure a guaranteed disappointment.
any true collector knows that PSA has jumped the shark with their business practices, but their greed has them too far gone
Hey Chris, I would like to get your insight on why you used the $75 service as opposed to the $19-25 service, since that was a sizeable cost relative to the profit margin ($525 grading cost versus $175 for the $25 level).
All of these cards were in the $500 or less range raw, so they should qualify for that service level. I understand on the modern football to sell during the season, but why on the vintage baseball and hockey?
The $500 cutoff refers to the value of the card once it has been graded. Had these cards gotten the grades I expected, they all would have been $500+ (except the 56 Robinson). Turnaround time is also very important to me for cash-flow reasons and the more expensive service levels come with much quicker turnaround times.
That is why you stick with sgc. One to two week turnaround times all for $15. Seems like a no brainier to me.
Think you’re gonna resub any of these? I had an order like this recently
Possibly the Tatis and/or the Jefferson.
Thanks for a video again Chris!
If I get card back from PSA which is labelled as minisize (as you got), can I send it back there again and ask not to get grade only authentication? Did I understand you properly?
Yes, you can do that.
Surprised you actually paid that much. 15 bucks at sgc and probably would of been way happier with the results.
Why do you not grade the auto as well? Not being critical, just picking your mind. I am getting ready to send in a 20 card submission with card and auto grades so I was just curious as to why you don't get those graded as well. Thanks.
I generally dont grade the auto on modern pack-inserted cards although I certainly could. That would be a reasonable option.
Ridiculous. This must have happened to Rudy, the Alpha Investments Magic the Gathering guy--loyal to PSA for decades but just bought a grading company a couple weeks ago as I understand it. PCG? He has legit 9-figures wealth. Maybe we'll change the industry?
have you ever tried tag grading with computer AI grading the card with no human bias?
I have tried TAG and did a video on them. I like them a lot and am rooting for them, although they have a ways to go before I would use them consistently.
PSA 7 is probably worth more than a TAG 10
This is exactly why I don't use PSA anymore. I also got screwed on a Gretzky and not onky did they deem it mini size but they charged me to do so. PSA has zero consistency Chris. If I ever grade agein, it wouid be most likely SGC. To be honest, grading imo has been one of the worst things in the hobby in the last 30 years. People pay insane amounts for a 10 over a 9 when often times you cant even tell the difference because of ZERO grader notes. No accountability. PSA - zero transparency and ridiculous upcharging.
For $75 grading fee, they should take pictures of both sides of the card, and point out issues they found on the picture, like you can do with a screenshot on your computer.
How long did they spend looking at the card? My guess, less than 5 minutes total. For that much money, they should be providing detailed analysis of card along with pointing out the issues on the picture they take of both sides of the card. Plus, they should show the final calculation to determine the rating. Something like (scuff marks on surface -1, chipped edges, -1, for an 8).
They take $600 to grade 8 cards, guessing they spent less than 1/2 hour on all of them combined, they pay the grader how much ($30, $40, $50)/hr? At that pace, PSA is paying employees $60-$100/hr, but making $1,200 from the customers. Guessing they will eventually offer a “service” for grader notes for a nice fee.
I’m 100% for automated grading. Let an algorithm, computer scan the cards, using same logic every time, would do away with human differences, should reduce fees too, since they wouldn’t have to pay employees… but at that point, if you have access to the algorithm and a similar computer, you wouldn’t need PSA anymore. 😅
Computer umpires are coming, will make things more fair. Same will eventually happen for card grading too.
75$ grading fee is robbery
Chris, one thing I am trying to understand is why the grading fees are $75. Couldn't you use a lower fee, because the values are not over the top?
I could have but I was expecting all these cards to be over the threshold once graded.
Bro how can a modern card that's sharp and centered get a freaking 7 ??
I was asking for them to add notes to explain their reasoning years ago. My patience eventually ran dry with PSA.
My last order, I got Four or Five 7's and a 6 on cards that are definitely 9s or 10s. I cracked the cases on all of them so I can prove it.