Enemy level scaling explained 2024 | Warframe
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- Опубликовано: 4 авг 2024
- Level scaling in Warframe is completely opaque. This video explains how that works and what you need to look out for, including comparisons to how it was before the Jade Shadows update.
===TIMESTAMPS===
0:00 Intro
0:23 Not a sponsor
0:33 Opaqueness of levels
1:19 Base stats and faction
1:42 Base level
2:41 Non-parallel scaling
3:35 Very early game (pre-Saturn)
4:48 Early game (pre-sorties)
5:59 Mid game (pre-The New War)
6:25 Armor scaling and Mid game cont.
8:01 Late game (Steel Path and Deep Archimedea)
10:38 Damage scaling
11:55 Comparisons to old systems
⏬ But wait there's more! ⏬
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Hey after I personally had a bet with a close friend of mine - He said he will come up with Enemy stat spreadsheet faster than keningeer video. Thanks for saving me a few cinema tickets!!. You beat him to editing warframe wiki lol.
Well I've heard of stranger bets. Enjoy the free cinema!
@@TheKengineer Sadly, he still has to go to the cinema.
I'd like to give credit to Arbitrary, he's the hero who researched the new scaling formulas now on the wiki.
That's an unwinnable bet
Just did the grendel missions, and this video explains a lot about why the oxium ospreys were so much stronger than everything else. Felt like a miniboss every time one showed up, lol
Little tip: using Wisp makes for incredibly easy survivability, plus the Cerata for basically 1/2 hit kill
@@nagato9100 That sounds like a good option! I went for Lavos with his new infusion augment (warframe augment mods work for some reason) and infused toxin on the Cedo
I've noticed that, thanks to the nerf to enemy armor and increase to enemy HP, Equinox Maim builds gave become way stronger and easier to play. I don't even need Armor strip anymore, I just need to kill an Eximus or 2 and I'm ready to clear the entire room.
Damn can you imagine saying "Not Needing Armor Strip" back then.
Some people might say that this 'makes the game easier' but I'm just glad that more weapons and frames can feel better now.
these large sweeping changes make the game more viable for less relevant frames without having to rework all of them
Yes, I actually started using Roar instead of Terrify on my Dayquinox and honestly despite no longer being able to scare the enemies, it feels just as effective if not better
@The57912 I'm a veteran of the game, but I generally hated doing anything high level because of the enemy health issues. The game also felt like it had a pidgin hole meta that just got worse and worse as years went on. This update was long needed in my opinion.
You can still do old meta but, now there's more potential
Eh. I'm not at all sold on it. Been trying out Roar a lot since I'm an Equinox diehard, and it either doesn't make a difference for non-armored targets due to how Maim scales, or just kinda....feels absolutely awful for the beefier armored targets. Just strikes me as something that only works if you were already used to over-charging Maim beyond what you needed to in order to kill. What kinda power strength are you running?
EDIT: To be clear, it is just objectively better than Terrify (minus the CC) for missions where you see little to no armored targets, but my point is that due to how Maim scales Roar isn't needed there. Even for the beefier murmur targets Maim deals with them just fine because of said scaling, and now you also have the drawback of it hitting like a wet noodle again on the culverin fodder. Perhaps I just need to play around with it a bit more.
no click bait
no outrageous title
no red circles or arrows in the thumbnail
just stone cold facts
Idk man... I kinda like an unexplained illuminati eye with an arrow pointing to a random circle on the thumbnail 😂
You are my favorite warframe youtuber by far. No nonsense, no "OMG GUYS YOULL NEVER BELIEVE THIS 25 MILLION DAMAGE IN ONE HITT", just calm info
Keep it up!
just need a shorts version for days when i dont feel like listening for 20 minutes to understand the new basics in a game that nerfed the fun out of itself already
And this is why I proudly wear the Kengineer Glyph in game. He's amazing, calm, collected, and the best resource I can share for pure game knowledge with new players. I even have a personal playlist of his "game knowledge" videos (ignoring specific build videos for frames and weapons), plus a few videos from other creators. But it's 99% Kengineer.
DE did an amazing job with this balance change in combination with the status changes. Old methods are still viable, but not overwhelmingly moreso than anything else in most cases. It lets us as players find a style we like and at least be able to make it work even against enemies it's not tuned for, while also letting us tune things with in game transparency to deal with factions specifically if we find that we're having trouble. Now if only they would partially revert those dang ammo nerfs from years ago and make railjack a little more streamlined... Overall love where the game has been going since Reb took over though.
Idk, seems baffling that corpus are still so weak
@@OldSpaghettifactory89 well they only care about money not strength
@@OldSpaghettifactory89That's what happens when a single damage type invalidates half your health bar
@@OldSpaghettifactory89 I think it's more like the Grineer are the brute force, hi nomber faction and Corpus are the faction that brings weird mechanics. E.g.: nullifier bubbles are a significant thing to watch for on some builds, and are just generally a pain during any mission where you happen not to have brought a high fire rate weapon. They also have a lot more flying enemies. Moas love to try to stunlock you. Etc. They look weaker on paper, but I think they're reasonably on par now that armor scaling isn't _the_ dominant build concern for the game.
I don't know... I'd love for the game to have some actual challenging content where the challenge isn't just... grinding i.e obscure farms like the Sporothrix. I liked the direction Netracells and Duviri's Circuit were headed, since "nerfing" the power fantasy by actively nerfing how strong the player gets would likely get everyone into an uproar, I felt like simply limiting the arsenal you have access to was a step in the right direction and it forced players to interact with the "looter" aspect of Warframe more than simply building 1-2 comfort weapons/frames and calling it a day.
Alas... people still found a way to bitch. God forbid we get some content that requires hands because some people want to get home after a long day of work and press 2 on Revenant, press 4 for their subsumed Roar and hold W and left click on their Ignis Wraith.
Very good video. DE should find a way to properly communicate this. Many new players are like: "WTF this is so easy I don't even need mods." to "Every sortie3 enemy is unkillable?!" within weeks. Must be weird to be a new player.
And then there is the the first Steel Path mission that claps the cheeks of 80% of players pertty hard. It's only after a certain time in SP, where you start to not bother again, because even a lvl1200 SP Heavy Gunner is just a joke and dies onehit.
Warframe has truely a weird scaling mechanic. But I like it.
My very first successful steel path mission clear took me 24 minutes. Yes, E. Prime took me 24 minutes to clear. It was my introduction to the insane side of Warframe scaling. It took me so long to beat that all 4 acolytes spawned during an exterminate mission, something I haven't had happen since. With a little bit of guidance from a friend, I improved my builds and can now clear the same mission in under 4 minutes with nearly every Warframe in my arsenal. The game should do a better way of explaining how everything works so that players aren't reliant on being lucky enough to have a friend who already knows how everything works helping them figure it out.
@@electricnick260 I absolutely feel you! I was max Mastery Rank when Steel Path released and was like: "LOL hit me with that shit!"... Yeah... The first enemy pack clapped me so hard, it nearly forced a second big bang😬💀
@@YISP7 lol I did the first steel path mission, got my cheeks clapped, went back to normal missions to grind out better mods and weapons, then went back and annihilated them.
I was prepared for it, but by "prepared" I mean I went in with the explicit game plan of a combination of a dizzying rounds bronco and skiajati to finisher with. It worked well enough, but took quite a while to actually do because it's single target and finishers have long animations. I don't know if that strategy would even work any more though, since they added mercies which can steal the finisher (and thus finisher bonuses) from you
@@aaronscott7467 The parazon (mercy) is older than steel path. Though the various scaling and slight/indirect mechanic changes made it more prominent over the years
I main xaku, dont know why i am watching this when i scale with enemy but it was a good video
I have noticed that a light breeze won't kill the infested anymore.
Especially on deimos, i know the deimos enemies were already tanky, but now, holy shit
It was so so weird taking a Tenet Glaxion modded for Gas to the usual group of CHG and absolutely annihilating them, even without armor strip. Fantastic video as usual!
Feels like a good patch, but there's more to do. I think the clump of units that they changed to base level 1 might be test cases for eventually doing this with everything... Which would make it easier to balance long term and could allow consolidation of scaling math.
Just my opinion.
monke from asian server mentioned
12:07 oh hey the famous cloud walker wukong heavy slammer
thanks for actually saying that armor strip was nerfed, watched youtubers that make builds somehow claim that armor strip frames were buffed by the armor change. Not saying they could not be buffed other ways, like Frost but his armor strip is less impactful then before even if it is true that he has been overall buffed.
I've been feeling like adding heat to any weapon build is enough to run all of the non-endurance content in the game. I don't know if it's just power creep, placebo, or the enemies are really that much weaker.
Also, I definitely noticed them oxium ospreys! I've been smacking them sometimes seemingly more times than Eximus lol.
When i went into diviri i instanty noticed they had actual resistance like i was surprised and happy
A friend and I tried to do the math behind the new scaling, and o boy what a adventure we had cracking our minds trying to find what was wrong. The video helped to close some of the questions, but there's some thing that dosn't make sense yet.
As always an awesome video with great detailing on the specifics and of course, a lot of maths.
So detailed in fact that i now want to go back and test my weapons on the new update... Guess i'll have to download the game again lol.
One of the most noticible changes to the basic stats change is that now without armor stripping uncharged Velocitus no longer one shot Profitaker limb even having the strongest possible riven.
-And then ingame, just build whatever status they are weak to
-have some damage buff and dont care about actual math
Nice to know scaling non the less
Doesn't change my problem in needing to redo my gear... I still don't get what I should do to rework my builds based on these changes...
@@Nimi450 This vid is not the best place to get that info because... well, exact numbers of scaling is largely irrelevant
The status rework vid would be the better place for that information
That being said... you don't really have to change your builds, the basic default builds for most weapons still work perfectly fine up to sp star chart
You can put blast now on your weapons if you'd like... that is sth you can consider for new builds, mainly on beam or other high status weapons
But all in all.. while these reworks are substantial in their own way... you should also be fine if you just ignore them for most gameplay
@@Nimi450what that person said. Most of your builds should be fine, and if you see some of them are struggling just change some of them to match the most effective type of damage for the enemy you are facing.
Really informative thanks for the hard work.
Thanks for the video. I still can't relate to a good chunk of it, but even I realize that the info is valuable
I am simple man, i see Kengineer post, i binge watch.
I was literally researching this topic when this video dropped! :D
Specifically, I was trying to learn how eximus units spawn and if high level areas increase eximus spawn rates.
This is very professional I like it
This video is everything I ever needed to know in warframe health scaling
Thank you so much, I've been trying to find the ehp of normal enemies up to level cap, mostly to see how much over kill 51 million damage is. Now I see it's quite a bit
this game is insane lol
Definitely not a kids game
@@E90RUDY This game is boringly easy, what are you talking about??? Unless you're a newer players starting out
@@lostsarphwhy are you here🤡
@@lostsarph idk chief some people just cant do SP at all
Seems fine to me 😂
5:55 green banshee is canon
Hey, watched a few of your old videos on Lavos as I was crafting him with excitement, you got my subscribe cause I love an expert enthusiast. I'm super hooked on Lavos now but my main weapons feel like they aren't taking advantage of Lavos potential.
With the augment to infuse your weapons and the new status damage mods from jade, can you do an updated video to deep dive weapon/companion setups for Lavos that you particularly enjoy? If you could touch on arcanes, archon shards, and melee vs. gun setups that would be amazing.
I don't think I'd find someone I trust about Lavos more than you at this point, so if you can, awesome. If not, thank you for the content :)
I appreciate what you do for us in these videos, I just wanted to say that! Thanks!
It's funny that with all of that, it still seems like Waframe is full of some arcane voodoo BS, but I think that's part of it's charm. Like that what leaves the room for us to faff about with whatever feels "fun" (my latest is a Sancti Magister Incarnon w/ the 100% slam radius, Blast damage, and the new Melee Afflictions arcane) or something.
Hoped to hear about overguard scaling too
In conclusion, my mesa only needs one tau forged corrosive stack shard
Hey! I was curious if you'll be streaming on the 20th? And if your streams are eligible for the twitch drops that are available that day
I will be streaming on the 20th. I believe drops are on the official channels (Twitch and Steam) only.
This was really helpful, does scaling change when soloing team based designed activities like Railjack too? I swear some planets are scaling for multiplayer when it’s just me and suddenly I’m hitting progression wall trying to get through trash mobs.
I could tell my weapon damage noticeably change specifically for my secondary weapon with the last update. My tenet cycron with heat corrosive build for corrupted enemies (and just about anything else) wasn't stripping armor as fast as before and the health was still 100%... Torid incarn and praedos incarn seem to have escaped uneffected by the changes is there a incarn conspiracy? (joke). Did secondary weapons lose some of their punch? or just my build isn't effective anymore. Another thought is lag how is lag effecting the damage you give vs the damage you take? any thoughts on that?
What I love about the changes to EHP and armor scaling in general is that it makes a bunch of Warframe abilities that didn't do meta damage types incredibly viable later into the game. Blast, magnetic, or gas damage? Orders of magnitude better than before and it makes me very happy!
Would really love a closeup of that Armor to EHP scaling on lower levels, to better understand how much weaker armor strip has become, how important green Archon shards are now. An important stat is how much EHP multiplier is left on 99%(corrosive and heat on 1 green tauforged) 98%(1 tauforged), 92%(1 normal shard), 96%(with heat), 80%(no shard), and 90% on enemies with maxed armor.
Old stat gives +100% EHP per 300 armor, wonder how much has changed.
With max armor, remaining DR with x% armor removal is:
80% ► 40.2%
90% ► 28.5%
92% ► 25.5%
96% ► 18%
98% ► 12.7%
99% ► 9%
More removal than 1 normal green shard you can notice still but it's not much. For 1 tauforged, the noticeable difference between it and full strip now is just changing the health bar to red. Warframe gameplay doesn't typically rely on damage breakpoints narrowly enough for 12.7% damage reduction to matter.
@@TheKengineer What I'm seeing here is that against armored enemies at Steel Path, moving from 0.1x damage to 0.6x still beats out Viral albeit much less than before.
Green archon shards for corrosive buffs is effectively useless now(shoutout to old build guides), moving up from 0.6x damage to 0.8x or 1x only yields around ~1.3-1.7x effective increase.
That's not considering that non-armored enemies have been buffed considerably and you just can't bring corrosive weapons with impunity now.
@@TheKengineer huge thanks for what you do, by the way!
One of the builds that actually goes great with these changes is Rhino with revenant’s reave. Now that armor is capped the build is way more consistent when you get enough power strength, you now just have to mod enough power strength to overcome the cap rather than it falling off without a full armor strip or viral primer I believe this cap is around 440% power strength, still maddening but ultimately doable.
so you have these spreadsheets already in a file?
how do Gokstad Officers scale? those tanks are my goto test subject for builds and i am curious how the update affected them
All the calculator/spreadsheets I assembled to inform this video (plus the graphs derived from that) are available through my Patreon as part of Meet The Math.
Holy crap dude got a green banshee :0
Are you using that animation cancel with Wukong that was talked about on stream towards the end of the video ? The one that was asked REALLY weirdly lol
That's what it is, yes. This is using the Titron, but it works perhaps better with the Magistar Incarnon
@@TheKengineer thanks for testing it, I’m really curious to test it myself
What is this build, does it just cause a slam attack from the staff? And how do you make it, it looks really cool to use (although spamming 2 might be a little annoying)
if you go to asia server wuslam have been plagued already
Why my Harmony with Melee Affliction heavy attack deal damage differ from 50K to 100M in same stage to same fraction enemies with same buff?
i keep saying this on random yt videos till i make a forum post
enemy EHP is not a problem, the fundamental problem Warframe has, is and was ALWAYS enemy dmg, it should not scale higher than 1shot the lower 50% of max vitality WF, that'd will make posible : the reduction or removal of BS mechanics to not die (shield/og gate, i frames on everything, DR stacking up to 99% for free and 99.9% on frames with DR abilities)
while also making healing actually do something instead of just being there to offset combat discipline,
when was the last time you said for example as trinity or night equinox "oh my teammate or me is losing hp i better press 4 to heal them" never, you just keep it up for the buff
melees hit a ton but when it matter you get 1shot for being close to enemies of we remedy that by basically cheesing the game and not getting hit EVER
rant over feel free to discuss
That Arca Titron Wukong heavy slam build is like a baby sensory video, I kinda want to play it
I would like to point out how I noticed that i think the acolyte scale to how many players there are now I noticed this when I was farming for my second voruna with well voruna normally with 4 people 1 10x pounce with 1 cast of fangs would deal about 1/8th of their health but when I was alone and 20min in of a survival it took 1 10x pounce and 1 cast of fangs to deal about 7/8ths of their health
The majority of your viewers may be early game players, but your videos are still massively helpful (I'd even say essential) for a lot of late game/Steel Path players. I've been playing since 2016, and I still rely on your info to help me get to grips with new mechanics and balance changes.
Hey, what are the odds of it taking over 232 C rotations of defection to get the last piece of Harrow? Because that happened to me.
It's been 5 years and I'm still salty about it.
by far the best youtuber in the community
can u make a short version of what ur trying to say here coz most of us do not have time or lost intrest in this game ( me my self legendary 2 player).
4:52 is the Green Banshee perhaps a reference?
Recently i have been trying to thing best way to deal steelpath Deimos jugulus. At level 120 it allready has EH 3000000. what makes it worst is DR against DPS status immunity resistance against viral. Y it takes damage from Blast and Gas problem is trying to scale that damage. Best that i could have done is using claive throws. From my range weapons none seems to work really well. What i did learn was while trying protea. Was if one shot of proteas artillery hit multiple enemies y can scale damage up the roof. Like 200x.
So infested did get a big buff! I just played heart of demos and I was confused why I was struggling in the necramech. The quest does a terrible job displaying why nechramechs are worth the grind.
How did you find these equations?
Some experimentally, most via contributors in my community or to the wiki directly (who themselves found them experimentally).
I have no idea why i am watching this, dealing negative 2 billion dmg should suffice for all enemies at all levels
Oh god not the infamous wukong slam build
Great video, except for that Wukong gameplay in the background, for some reason it's it annoys me way to much.
You explained so much, yet i understand so little😅
🎉
how would one even deal 61032242 damage anyway and why are warframes cap at level 30?
The only question I have now is if all the past builds you’ve done will need some kind of update, or if all the old builds are still Endless SP viable.
Armour went down and health went up. If you had an SP build before it's still going to slap.
Its pretty much the same, slash is slightly worse, full armour stripping is slightly less needed but other than that its fine
A bunchbor other stuff is fun too now like cold and blast
Oh, this video is absolutely bursting with reddit drama, but quietly in the background, so only those that are there can even tell haha
simple solution nataruk and wisp no need to worry about scaling
I noticed you were using the Wukong slam cheese, do you play on the Asian server.
I do not, no.
That build works on every server lol.
i think this system is uslessly complex, and the scaling at high level is too slow.
it would be better if the scaling was just like in 2020, but the only difference that : at level 70, the armor stop to increase.
at the time, the formula for the HP and energy shield was just growing with : lvl^2 ; so an enemy level 200 had 4 time the hp of an enemy level 100.
Kengineer, are you okay?
pls do a video about modding weapons cause as a beginner i struggle a lot against higher lvl enemies
Need to work on your mod collection. Mods mean everything to your weapons
Leyzar does almost exclusively weapon builds and explains modding pretty well each video, you should check him out
@@shizukousapostle1stapostle710 ty bro so much!!!!!!!
Put that poor 1-6 kid on blast you're ruthless
I checked with them, they were happy to be included
Do Grineer still have One million armor?
Add-On: Grammar Correction.
Nope. Max 2700 regardless of unit
@@TheKengineer Oh my god yes.
@@travismontgomery1897to compensate, they will have much more health. Expect slash procs to take time wearing down armored enemies on steel path.
@@Master_Brutus Oh. So does this mean Sp enemies are easier or harder to kill now?
@@travismontgomery1897 i dont know if I can answer that because I tore apart sp enemies regardless.
Goddamn, the Oxium grind is shit already and this made it worse for new players, I hope they buffed the spawn rates of them but last I heard they patched the Capture mission spawning enemies bug and nerfed that strat to farm oxium.
I'm just so tired of steel path making me feel like I'm tickling enemies "oH jUsT uSe ArCaNeS/gAlv mOds/etc" the only thing I have consistent access to galvanized mods and farming vitus essence feels really slow
Kuva spy mission is like your one stop shop for making plat, there is a 40% change you will make 10+ plat per mission, and you can get away with only 2 hacks if you dont want the meso relic in rotation C
Each galvanized mod is 20-30 plat and there are like 6 good ones. You can get them all in an afternoon
Or running relics is also a great way to make plat
Hell you dont even need galvanized mods for steel path, take a good gun and swith the galvanized mods for the normal ones you will still delete everything
The thumbnail is mobile game stuff.
Geen banshee detected
Why are there even levels?
Why not just remove them and give enemies their base-level stats as their only ones, and use stronger enemies for higher-level missions.
12:25
I really think DE should remove toxin bypassing shields, and to compensate make toxin damage reduce armor by 50% instead of that effect on heat.
That way Corpus won't be made of paper and you would be able to get some armor reduction against robotic enemies without bringing a corrosive primer that is neutral against corpus. Additionally, it would make much more sense modding toxin (50% armor reduction) into corrosive (80% armor reduction) when fighting grineer.
The only thing left would be the armored deimos infested; maybe keep the damage portion of gas the way it is, but enemies standing in the gas clouds themselves receive some percentage health damage?
4:51 Dude just casually flexes his 1k plat Green Banshee at the "mid-game" Saturn SMH we all know that the green frame is most busted. These high level players are so out of touch.
first lol
Damage attenuation is poor game design.
That sucks, true.
firsst lol
i wish they hadnt changed armour and scaling, or give us more challenge, the challenge from lategame has just been almost flat out removed
Nice, math time
Can you cover the first descendent please?
Eww
They need to adjust damage scaling of enemies, getting one shot is not a great thing (Inaros players crying in the corner)
DE really needs to hire someone with a math degree to rework this mess in a nice logarithmic scale that stops us from reaching 2 billion damage per hit and enemies requiering millions more health than they did at level 1 on Earth.
Seems it is working okay already, enemy health does not scale into billions and as such your not forced to go into such builds. Just an option if you like big numbers that really does not impact overall gameplay.
what the sigma
Brainrot
skibidi toilet rizzler ohio
Quite literally why I'm not playing anymore. The game was easy enough before, and not it's ridiculously too easy.
Did you watch the video? Significant amount of enemies are tankier now.
@@xanosdarkpaw1 you're primarily going to fight grineer. If YOU watched the video you'd know the change gave them more health. Not EHP, which is less. Therefore: less tanky. Therefore: *easier*
of all the problems with the game, the game being "too easy" is not one of them
@@goat_exe it's not really less EHP because everyone would armor strip them before anyway, meaning you just had to chew through their health. More health means tankier.
What you're talking about bro? Before it was like: "Can it kill Grineer? If yes: It kills the rest too." Try your slash/viral build against Infested now👀 It feels not more easy, but way better balanced. And Warframe was alsways power-fantasy-easy🤷♂
a coment
a reply
Great video, except for that Wukong gameplay in the background, for some reason it's it annoys me way to much.