@@Zoeila I’m sure your crit dot character will be better off as a healer that scales off EHR not actual crit rate crit dmg. Or better Super Dot. Sampo Imbibitor Lunae
It seems to me that Superbreak was their way of making Break less useless since before Superbreak nobody cared about Break, but they ended up overdoing it. That's why they made HMC since otherwise nobody would use characters like Firefly or Rappa who depend on SuperBreak, and that's why I don't consider HMC "broken" since they exist to avoid a Kafka situation where an entire mechanic is locked behind a limited character (DoT is useless outside of SU without Her). As for how they're going to nerf Super Break, it's likely that it'll be a mix of inflating the enemies' HP + Gimmicks that just scream "Use the new character or have double the difficulty"
Extremely fast enemies already do the job of not allowing super break to exploit it too long, simply because they recover that fast Inflating HP numbers would do even worse
DoT is still good without Kafka but you'd need at least Black Swan to make it useful. Sampo paired with Guinaifen can work but it's not nearly as strong as with either of those units.
I just don't like that quite a few characters nowadays don't care about enemy weaknesses. Boothill, Acheron, Feixiao, Firefly, and now Rappa can deal tougness damage regardless of weakness. Superbreak is already strong. We don't need to make it even easier.
Tbh this slipped my mind when making the video, but yeah 100% agree. It's not even about break being able to take such good advantage of that, because feixiao and acheron can do it too. It just takes away a layer of game mechanics where you're meant to bring the proper element, I mean why would you if you can ignore it?
I actually like this because the method to obtain the units r hard, u need to save and then gamble to get it. Turn based games naturally has to have typing and so the amount of characters needed to fulfil each typing would be alot too, this is also why hsr is pumping characters out like crazy since release, they need a lot of different characters just to make the game fresh. Now why superbreak is a mistake? Well its not, it is not a mistake if it is weaker. Super breaking is just the specific typing model that is pretty good for what the game is trying to do, making each character do well on their element. But weakness ignore is the main problem, usually when theres a unit that can straight up ignore typing will always be weaker than those that is specific to that typing. Well it appears thats not the case in this game, just pull feixiao and firefly and ure good
@@fl2ur i'd agree with that, but the main problem is nobody wants a unit that becomes useless is even one enemy is not weak to it, like firefly for instance, she's lose so much value from not being able to beat any non fire weak enemy. It would simply be way too frustrating to use
@skullthefan8914 That's fair - but I think there's definitely better ways to do it than "I implant my weakness on whatever I attack and then deal full toughness break regardless of who/what you are". If they want to give essentially universal toughness break then it needs to be more balanced or deal less toughness break to the non main element, kinda like Rappa.
@@fl2ur exactly instead of powercreep I hoped star rail would go the way early genshin went that different elements are valuable so the need for powercreep is not there instead building different element dps is what makes you want to pull. but with that out of the window plain powercreep is coming and i hate it
They just needed to change how Break Effect works and we shouldn't have issues nowadays. They made Xueyi, an amazing concept, and they didn't work around her.
I mean, it's just an attempt at combining crit destruction blasts with fua combined, so her dmg output predictably ended up being terrible without ruan mei AND a good build
I’m just mad bc they definitely skipped a few steps before just throwing amazing super break stuff at us. Like, we never really had a semi-decent real JUST PLAIN BREAK dps and then they threw in Harmony trailblazer. I would have liked to see a more natural progression of things instead of just making Super Break super OP.
Well there are plain Break dps b4 Super Break,its called Boothill Beside the issue of needing a but ton of break multipliers for break dps to deal dmg,you also only have like one chance per cycle to deal any meaningful dmg Like you can break an enemy then they recover,you reduce their toughness and break it next cycle, other than Boothill,every other break can at best deal like 200k per cycle and that just horrendous,there is a reason why Boothill is very hard to play,you literally get one chance to make a shot and have to make it worth
We had Luka but nobody other than people who do 4* clears cared about him for some reason, and he was really strong for a 4* sub DPS while also not being braindead to play. Xueyi also exists but her break is more of a gimmick rather than her main damage source.
Boothill was released half a patch after Harmony TB though, so superbreak dis come before the first 5star break dps. One can argue that Luka, Sushang and Xueyi are all Break dps characters but since they are 4star neither ever took off.
People were building break Silver Wolf back in the day, then we got Ruan Mei and Xueyi and it actually became more of a thing, but still underwhelming. It wasn't until Harmony Trailblazer and Gallagher arrived until it became the latest iteration; we've since had Boothill, Firefly, Lingsha and Rappa. I don't think break came out of nowhere. It had a steady incline in power. I also disagree with the idea that it's miles ahead of anything else. We've been fighting the choir for the past 5 months _(enemies designed to be broken, that take a huge chunk of damage when broken, then receive 50% vulnerability)_ and we've also had an excessive amount of break modifiers on all end-game content.
This is a Honkai game. If it's going to be anything like HI3 (which it seems to be), superbreak will just get powercrept by characters with higher multipliers
Tbh my problem isn't with super break as a concept... my problem is when the game keeps forcing it on me, making end game content buffs specifically to that mechanic, I'm a fua enjoyer but I'm having a rough time clearing the current moc because I don't have super break dps's, also making players feel forced to follow a certain game mechanic to clear content and therefore, pull for characters, is diabolical... especially when you know 3.x will have a new meta called summon meta... it's not very casual player friendly if you think about it
It sounds rather hypocritical considering the fact that 2.3 and 2.4 MoCs buffs were heavily catered to fua teams. But yes, that logic can be applied to any of the end game modes such as w/ pure fiction. But who knows, maybe they might make changes to MoC, they did it for pure fiction granted it really doesn't appear to change much from the usual Herta/Acheron brute force or play by the buffs.
You r not forced to play break, thats why there are diff buffs for AS and PF to CHOOSE from but you will have an EASIER time using break just bcoz of the nature of it. If they are catering for one archetype then why do they put different buffs for those modes? In MoC case that mode is just catered to the next shiny DPS always.
MOC is easy for followup we literally have Clara who is perfect for Hoolay and Himeko who is perfect for Choir boss. Followup is the most powerful playstyle in the game right now and has the most powerful support in the game(Robin) if you are having a rough time with that than superbreak won't help you either theres something else going on.
Superbreak is great because now we can have a break archetype when before it didn’t really exist. Boothill doesn’t use superbreak but he has his own break retriggering in his kit so it’s similar enough.
I don't think it's mainly HTB's fault that super break is so broken. While it is "free damage", there's a caveat; the enemy has to be weakness broken. Before they are in that state, you're basically throwing sticks at them until you do break them. The problem is that alot of DPSes now just straight up ignore that caveat altogether. Boothill has a physical weakness implant on his ult, Firefly can implant fire weakness on BOTH her technique and enhanced skill, and now Rappa just straight up damages toughness bars regardless of weakness type (albeit at a less efficient rate). All while dealing immense toughness bar damage (with Ruan Mei's help) to get these enemies to the weakness broken state as quickly as possible.
You do realize that break characters would be garbage if they couldn't implant weakness or deal toughness dmg regardless of type right? Just imagine firefly without the implant, you would literally only use her on stages that have fire weakness and she is literally useless everywhere else
@@zzzy1934the problem is the rate they can break enemy. This caveat no longer caveat lol, you just breeze through with whoever have Ruan Mei or HMC as support. Too much superbreak shill in the game since Firefraud came out
I think Boothill having a single target implant is fine and its tied to his ult. Firefly on the other hand should only be able to implant it to one enemy per ult.
@shutup1037 why are you acting like thats so op? Feixiao doesn't even need to break and she shreds everyone and everything, you only need her and Robin to make everything easy af. So why is superbreak a problem but feixiao isnt? And dont say its because she needs crit stats and that makes it ok, feixiao is very easy to build, just stack crit rate, robin gives like 40+cdmg by herself, feixiao also got self buffs
Regular break was always annoying because it was easy mess up, it was so unbalanced for some elements, superbreak was a necessary addition imho. But there is one possible alternative break archetype, that being DOT Break. Luka being able to immediately hit 300k against a 300 toughness elite due to detonating bleed at 1.3x damage simultaneously while breaking was insane. Ruan Mei has really good synergy with dot from all that damage% which is useless on superbreak, but especially due to the break extend giving a second dot proc. Kafka's beta kit had break scaling, also newer divergent blessings, hinting we could get a dot break unit.
The way I see it, Superbreak was them overtuning a game mechanic that should've been there from the start: Doing more damage to broken enemies. I'd have normally expected to see a multiplier of damage for it, both for regular hits, crits and break focused. So, that kind of superbreak would be built-in on the game mechanic and wouldn't need an activation from any particular character. And in a way to make break builds more worthwhile, you'd make it so that break damage scales well, but also that the same time, you hit harder with non-break focused builds, that way you can have a dual dps team where 1 focuses on breaking, and the other one focuses on ditching heavy damage with crits. Something along those lines. Instead they decided to start the game in 2023 with a very underwhelming break mechanic that didn't reward the player for building break effect, and now they are doing a 180 and overcompensating.
This is pretty much what I feel about superbreak. Like they need 1 year to even know what to do with the enemies that breaking. Instead of making it built in game mechanic, they make it an archtype instead to sell characters, and overcompensating it
Not to mention the games tutorial starts showing you hey match the characters type to the enemies weakness. Then fast forward all the meta dps just weakness implant so they can ignore the base strategy of the game
Problem is that wasnt even part of the strat really, most of the time you just ignored types and just used your best dps There wasn't enough of a reward for breaking enemies for players to actually care
@Avsece_ I think you may be confused due to recentcy bias of current meta allowing you to brute force but back then most players wanted to be on element. We can see this with Silver wolf sales in 1.1.
As a Firefly main(mostly bc she's my first dps) and also a fan of Super Break,there are some i want to address 1st, Super Break ceiling is abysmally low compare to other types of dmg,there are only 3 multipliets for Super Break: Vulnerability,Def Shred and Break Effect compare to other type(mostly Crits) which have like 7 multipliers or even DoTs that have like 5,its very easy for Super Break to eventually hit a ceiling while Crits can just scale infinitely and while Exo toughness helps Super Break,it barely matters(more on this later) 2nd, Super Break doesnt only scales with just break but also spd, you could argue literally every unit scales with spd but they can always just settle with a spd boots hitting 134 and then pour everything into atk/CV to hit harder but Super Break can only just get more spd for more actions,just look at Super Break units,they all need to build like 150,160 even 170 spd to be good. So Spd might be a bonus for other type of dps,its pretty much mandatoy for a Break dps to function. While yes the invesment to get it going is very low,its pretty much just as hard if not harder to reach the ceiling(which mind you is a lot lower due to how little multipliers affect Super Break) 3rd, About Exo-Toughness,it really doesnt help Super Break all that much, you essentially get 1 additional trigger of Break dmg per enemy which in total is like a 10-15% dmg increase, what Exo Toughness does is allows Break dps to works(Boothill and Rappa),Boothill can literally oneshot Hoolay bc he get to proc his massive Break twice(also reason why Boothill with HMC is used more bc HMC is free and not everyone is smart enough to properly speed tune Bronya and Boothill,Super Break Boothill is quite bad actually) and for Rappa,she get tons of stacks on her talent for like a 500% Break dmg boost 4th, While its free dmg for newer players, Super Break scales very hard with toughness break efficiency, a lot of the time it wont really deal that much dmg. Also i feel that for early game you get more of an emphasize on breaking the enemy(bringing the correct element) so you get some bonus dmg cuz the 1.11 multiplier on weakened enemies isnt easy to be visualized 5th, While Super Break is absolutely Broken(pun intended),it somewhat helps with the issue of Break being a dead stat b4 that. B4 HMC there is like 2 unit that build break,Silverwolf for Entanglement in Mono Quantum or Luka for bleed proc,both of which sucks,SW is only in Mono Quant(elsewhere she'll use Wind set for more actions). While Xueyi have break scaling,she is still a crit dps that occasionally want some break rows on her double crit relics,not much changed from the norm of crit dps. Lastly about "nerfing" Super Break,its somewhat simple,just make Boss with akward weaknesses, Super Break as a team is like a literally team, everyone contribute some dmg but most importantly reduce toughness. Boss with awkward toughness doesnt really affect regular crit dps but absolutely fucks Super Break, just look at Hoolay,due to a lack of Imaginary weakness that Firefly performs significantly worse due to HMC cant help with toughness breaking In no way im defending SP,the thing is broken as fuck but there are smthg you need to consider, this is quite a long comment but hope you read it though
@hoangnguyen0721 Hey, appreciate the watch and comment - here's a couple thoughts I had reading through it I don't think it's really true to say that superbreaks ceiling is really low compared to the other types, because atk%, crit, dmg%, etc all have diminishing returns. You can see that in the events hoyo runs every so often where our characters can get like 900% attack boosts and whatnot and while they deal a lot of damage it's never what you'd really expect from a 900% boost. Also, I don't think that break was dead before superbreak, it was just unexplored as a damage modifier. Like I mentioned in the video, it actually dealt good damage early game(I ran break hook for the first few cycles of MoC for example) and then overtime it became less relevant once we got better crit stats. Xueyi brought the stat back into relevance, but by nature of being a 4 star I don't think she really pushed the potential of what a break dps could have been(anti synergy with ruan mei didn't really help either). Basically instead of introducing a new mechanic to "fix" the break stat I wish they iterated more on what they already had. There was a lot of nuance in knowing how much toughness your characters did and how to do your team rotation to get the right person to break/etc that just doesn't exist with superbreak as it is now - because all that matters is breaking them and then you get to deal the damage. Anyway, feel free to make longer comments as much as you want, I'm always looking for other opinions on things and again, I appreciate the watch!
Just to clarify on your first point, while super break has a lower ceiling, the amount of stats required to pass it with a normal crit build is VERY high. And not just engdame high. It's like you need atk and both crits on all 6 pieces and they need every single roll. Yes, the potential is higher, but I have characters that I've farmed for thousands of tb power, and they just barely beat out my super break team that has like 130-140 speed and just barely 250% BE while in combat with all the buffs up. Both my super break DPS have maybe 800 tb power combined since I just took the pieces that had less break effect for the second dps. Boots were enough speed at that point. Everything else I agree with, especially the speed point. Because you only need one of 3 leftover roles for speed, but with atk and both crit stats, there's only one slot left that can roll speed, so it's a lot easier to build speed and not lose damage per hit, which I think is why they need to be so fast.
@@fl2ur for your first point cuz i agreed with others Super Break also have diminishing return and its already very close to that due to its base number being so high already HMC Super Break is up to 160% so if another source of SB is added,like say the "leaked" 100% that Fugue gives on top of Firefly base 60%,going from bonus 220% to 320% is a 31% dmg increase at the cost of a whole nother unit while crit/dot can just get that with a Lightcone Or like say Ruan Mei,her initial 50% Break Efficiency is a 1.5 multiplier,but then the next 50% from FF's kit will be a 1.3 multiplier,then the next 50%(from smthg like FF e6 or the leaked E1 of Fugue) would just be a 1.25 so on so forth while again,other dmg can just hit as much with smthg like an S1 Planetary Rendezvous The ceiling of Break is very low which is the "balancing" factor for its ease of access and low investment You can minmax your crit dps,getting 2 more substat roll per relic and get like a 20% performance boost,but for break,minmax its relics can only give like a 10% increase if not less For me,SB rn is just have too high numbers rather than being fundamentally broken,i treat it as a way to always have 1 half of MoC cleared because of how little it scales with vertical investment unlike crit dps
@hoangnguyen0721 True, there's definitely stat dilution with both - I gotta say it's kinda annoying that the floor for SB is also significantly lower than the other types too
Now the only way to make old DPS characters keep-up is through relics and supports or get an E1 or E2 (if they have only good ones). Also note that newer DPSs have been getting much more catered support for them. When the game started, it was to either hit really hard with hyper carry strategies and have the correct weakness with overall good generic support characters, wich was all around the core gameplay. Around Argenti's release we started getting characters more specific to a play style and each release of a 5 star harmony (including Harmony MC) dictated a meta change (from DoT teams, to debuffing teams, to Followup Teams and Supperbreak teams).
why pick E1 of an old dps if you can have a new one which will be better then the E1 old dps, get better supports and relics and on top of that endgame will be build arround them. Star rail just killed reruns, in genshin I did pull a lot of characters in rerun and I wanted to go for Dan hang IL on his current rerun but I realised he will be bad and never get better and as low I only got half of the penacony units and don´t have any sig LC I can´t efford going for cool old characters since they are barely useable
@@sakutaro3musik486 If you want to clear the endgame content easier, then that is the correct mindset, but there are cases that one simply enjoys combat with the characters or playstyle would prefer invest in those even if its not the optimal choice.
We already know how they can nerf superbreak without hampering other damage types too much, its already in the game for a few bosses, the biggest example is SAM who just can't be broken for half the fight.
There where you wrong. There two different types of super break and sam only counter one type. There firefly and boothill who put weaknesses and there rappa who don't care about weaknesses who sam don't counter. If they release more rappa type and even faster break then her then there no counter to super break. So good fuck luck lol 😆
People who responded to this comment have 0 idea about how locked bar works. If the bar is locked, you just can't reduce it, end of the deal. Not even rainbow toughness dmg or weakness implant can get around it. For it to be locked it has to have crossed out weakness icons on top. If it has no icons then it is NOT locked, so it can be reduced like normal (albeit only by rainbow dmg or by implanting weakness).
Honestly they could do something fairly simple using a mechanic we already have in the game: give enemies a status that makes the resist/take less toughness damage but make it dispellable! This puts characters like luocha/pela back in the limelight and incentivizes making more characters/lightcones that include dispelling.
I don't understand why an easily accessible playstyle would be bad for a game, it's a single player game with no competition among players whatsoever. Giving more options to play and build characters is great for diversity. Also, if you want to make your classic DPS (say Jing Yuan) into a super breaker, you have to farm all the relics again, which some people might not want to do. Unfortunately, locking the toughness bar of opponents would stop SB from working altogether, same as Freeze in Genshin, so I hope they don't to that and instead use the approach you mentioned about encouraging the use of other archetypes/units instead of limiting their usage.
@@iNovak-HSR I doubt they will ever cuck super break as hard as freeze in Genshin. Unlike freeze which was a mechanic only accessible to Ice characters, break/super break is accessible to EVERY character; it's a core mechanic in the game that makes HSR into what it is. A permanent weakness lock would not only screw over break/super break, but also literally every other playstyle. I do think though that they would instead cater more to newer archetypes in the future once they're done branching out with break/super break.
@@koko-hh2bq That's a great point that I missed, you're right that SB is accessible to pretty much every character. I just hope they stopped making the endgame content too beneficial for the current banner character, I mean, it's OK to make it favorable, but most of the time you are required to use that unit or archtype to clear.
The thing is though you don't really have to farm all over again. Break doesn't rely on damage element so you can use the pieces right off of another SB character and switch them back whenever you want. The only two stats you need are break effect and speed.
the problem is that the game will have more powercreep whenever they release easy accessible dmg which means older character become useless and this is bad for f2p and low spender
@sakutaro3musik486 how is it bad when you are literally getting the character for free? HTB is free which is the core of superbreak, gallagher is also free. So getting an op team with Firefly would require you to spend less than to get a team full of limited characters
There's a few issues I _have_ with this mechanic so let me just start with this : crit damage is essentially FREE damage. All you have to do is build crit rate/dmg, level your character up, attack the enemy and then, you're good to go. Don't even need to break them at all. There's no real worries about chasing specific pieces or leveling your talents or pretty much anything, you just do one thing, you hope your character has good base attack damage or, just use Robin cause she buffs it, and, that's it. It's easy.
I don't think there's a problem with superbreak, they perform at the same level as any full synergy team would. There's no need to nerf it or change it, we just need to wait for the rest of playstyles to receive more supports.
The main issue really imo is that ever since they introduced HMC all the characters and buffs that were released after are all centered around break effect or have some sort of connection to the mechanic which feels like they're really trying to force it onto us (even the Feixiao weekly boss takes forever unless you use break/weakness reducing teams)
about genshin's situation: i still think that bloom is different from break in hsr, while yes a lacking unit like blade can be carried by it, there are units who ACTUALLY use break effect, such as hmc, ruan mei, lingsha and finally the damage dealers - firefly, boothill and rappa, genshin doesn't have any hyperbloom carries, the only character who can be considered an actual bloom carry is nilou with her bountiful cores and yeah it is kinda similar to superbreak, even so i'd compare break to xianyun plunge because you need specific units (for example ruan mei in hsr and furina in genshin) and any melee character now can vape with huge numbers more importantly about "powercreep" in genshin, neuvillette is good but his damage is technically similar to alhaitham's teams, his main strength is how easy he is to use, he can heal himself and work with most sub dpses (except for those who are reliant on normal attacks), but that's also his main weakness because specifically because of his easy usage i know a lot of people who became extremely bored with him after a month of playing with him, while arlecchino's damage ceiling is literally lower than hu tao's who came out back in 1.4 (with pretty similar builds it's 81k to 89k dps difference between arle and hu tao respectively, you can check it by using configs of their best teams on gcsim, for arle it's yelan-kazuha vape which is honestly very painful to play in practice, and for hu tao it's xianyun plunge), at the end of the day it doesn't matter because xiangling will always be stronger than any other unit and powercreeping her without making a unit who's 2 times better than neuvillette is pretty hard lmao. oh and navia is just yellow eula, but at least she synergizes with characters we currently have unlike eula who only has a single support and he sucks for specifically eula, so unironically her best team is hyperbloom
While it might be difficult to powercreep Xiangling in every way without having to raise the bar in abyss further, I think it's pretty easy to make "better" Xiangling in most way. The 2 obvious ways would be capitalizing some of the thing Xiangling is good at like pyro app, off field damage. Or, fixing the problem Xiangling has like the need of Bennett(if you want her to deal damage) or Energy problem. Imagine Pyro version of Furina but buff atk instead of damage bonus. like combining Bennett and XIangling in 1. * "Xiangling will always be stronger than any other unit" is quite a claim I think Lyney, Hu Tao and Arlecchino are stronger in term of DPS if we compare them in their best team. In AoE scenario with a lot of enemies in 1 wave, Xiangling might be stronger, but these Natlan abyss cycles mostly has 1-2 enemies, so those 3 are far stronger in the current abyss, imo. If you said "she is better than any other pyro unit", I might mostly agree bc she has more just damage.
For me I really preferred when break was just a supplementary damage option rather than what we have now, having a break Asta, Luka, Xueyi or whatever felt fair as you had to properly calculate how much toughness DMG you had to deal to land that big break attack for some extra damage. Now you just spam attack in whatever way and get free damage, not to mention that damage types don't even matter anymore as everyone ignores toughness weakness for some reason. For me the big problem is that Mihoyo is babyproofing the game way too much, the new characters, be it a sustain, support or dps, do way too much with way too little room for error or skill expression to the point that the game can almost play by itself unless you're purposefully handicapping yourself by using weaker characters.
Your points about supplementary damage is the point I was going for when talking about value over time & xueyi - it was a great early game option, and you had to actually think a little bit to use it. Now with superbreak on the other hand .... lmao
maybe they could add an enemy that immediatly move as he gets broken, disentivising breaking him, being immune to superbreak, but for someone like boothil he would still take the bleed damage proc instantly, wich would still be good
This was a great video, Fl2ur. I don't think Super Break is at the point where we should be super concerned about it from a DMG performance perspective, but... I do see where you're coming from on how it could become an issue down the road. I believe right now the game is just flourishing itself out so players can build more team comps within the given archetypes. We aren't glued to 1-2 main teams per arch anymore, but now we have a mix & match variety in the event we didn't want to play XYZ. Of course, we still have the obvious "strongest comp for __", but you get my point. I'm excited to see where the rest of this year's meta is going to end up. That concept you mentioned about changing the buffs per archetype really piqued my interest though.
Hey Iyo, thanks for the comment and thoughts on the topic! I do think there's avenues they have to pivot out of the break/fua meta we're in, just really hoping it's not something that would be annoying for the other damage types like I mentioned in the video. I've always been a fan of buffing to balance things, and temporary buffs for the end game content is the easiest way to do that.
Break is practically a dead stat before Super Break. No one use it outside of memeing. I certainly don't see their relevancy before, and neither are the legions of guide videos. I see Super Break as a way the dev try to bring Break back to relevancy.
The problem I had with super break is that they added weakness implant along with it. The downside of break/superbreak is that you have to match enemy weakness types and can’t just overpower the enemy with raw power like you can with a crit dps. But when they introduced it they introduced HarmonyMC(for free) with a buff that means that anyone can do superbreak so you can just bring a normal dps and access superbreak and they introduced firefly who implants the weakness needed to access her superbreak so her enemy doesn’t need to be fire weak in order for her to deal her super break. They introduced a very powerful mechanic with a very powerful downside to match but then immediately nullified the downside. Maybe the downside is too great without some weakness ignore but it feels like it removes some team building strategy if you can bring a superbreak team to any fight regardless of the weaknesses.
Cant wait for next Year around this Time and you put out a Video titled "Summon was a Mistake". Once 3.0 Drops we will get a differend Playstyle which got all the Love. Acheron was the Baseline for 2.x and i am sure that the first big 3.x DPS will be more broken to set the new Baseline for all upcoming 3.x Main DPS Characters.
If summons are as easy to get value out of as superbreak is, maybe lmao. I'm sure we're going to move away from superbreak once those are in the game as the main super broken damage niche, but I don't think we'll ever move past it being the easiest to access considering it's requirements are just breaking the enemy. That's my main issue, the damage is way too high for how easy it is to use, and as a result we're going to end up with something like summons potentially having to be stronger than superbreak is, and the game being scaled around that. Not particularly interested for the end of 3.x when we have to fight a 5 million HP enemy, further invalidating old characters and damage types.
@@fl2ur tbh i get the Feeling youre seeing this way too simple "Just breaking the Enemy" is the same as "Just killing the Enemy" which you do with every other Hypercarry. Building a Firefly is as simple as Building an Acheron or Building a Feixiao. Crit% + Crit Dmg thats All. And of course you will have a way harder Time in the Future with older Units. In the End this is a Gacha Game and Hoyo wanna make Money with it. Why would any 1.0 Player care for new Units when they just could E6 Seele and then never have to pull again for anyone? Powercreep is and will always be a main Topic in this Kind of Game and unless you invest in Eidolons or new Suports i really doubt you can still 3* MoC or AS with a full E0 Boothill or Firefly Team in a Year from now on. This is how Gachas work and either people accept this or quit the Game.
@DantoriusD Tbh I don't think that comparison is fair - breaking the enemy is always going to be an easier solution than "just kill them through it" because toughness bars are most likely always going to have lower "hp" than the actual enemies hp bar on top of weakness implant & ignore being things in the game. I just tested it against MoC11 Kafka - running FF/hmc/ruan/fu xuan kafka got broken after using HMC skill once and FF's skill twice. With how fast FF is going, those two skills happened very quickly after each other. The second FF skill took her from 98% HP down to 57%. On the other hand, a feixiao team of qpq gallagher/march/robin/feixiao didn't break kafka(which isnt surprising, but its another "benefit" of break lost by other archetypes), and it took two full feixiao *ults* to deal the same amount of damage. Idk, I really don't feel like you can say that's even remotely similar.
@@fl2ur so your taking Kafka as comparison. A Enemy that is Imaginary+ Fire (due to implant) weak. You needed 2 Firefly Skills to break her and im guessing 2 to bring her first Bar down. After that your dealing like 0 dmg for 2 Turns cause shes out of her Ult Form. So in short you have massive Burst dmg but after that lacking so much dmg. And whats with Sam as Enemy? He Hardcounters Break as a whole since he starts with 0 Weakness and cant even implanted. With 0 toughness dmg you cant do anything on him for quite some time. Yes break is strong but already has lots of Downsides which we already see on Every Boss namely phase changes. Where enemys regain there full toughness again. Or you have some Hyperspeed Enemy like Hooley who is so fast that he recovers from Break even with the Delay from FF and HMC. If you cant Kill the Enemy while he is broken you might have a Big Problem and Firefly is super limited in her Turns. If she needs 3 Skills from her Ult to Break the Enemy she has only 1 left to actually dealing dmg. Meanwhile my Acheron couldnt care less about weakness and about the Spd. she even handles Kafka pretty well who comes with Lightning Resistance but is still able to Deal 70% of her Lofe with her Ult. And when i look at prydwens list for current MoC 12 then Feixiao already has a lower cycle count as FF
@DantoriusD The damage was in reference to how easy it was to do. Breaking the enemy to deal 41% of her health bar with a skill is a lot different than burning two full feixiao ults. Even worse, ruan's ult wasn't even active on the FF team, nor did i have gallagher/lingsha for their break damage bonuses & toughness break - meaning it would actually be more if I wasnt being lazy with ruan or brought the proper sustain. There's no nuance or skill, nor is there the aspect of planning your ult rotation and managing energy/etc to a break team. Pressing skill 3 times to deal that much damage is always going to be easier than everything that every other team has to do. It's easy to play, not hard to build for, but does stupid damage despite both of those things. I feel like we're kinda arguing two different things here and I guess that's my fault for bringing damage into it, so my bad there. Hopefully this explains my point better.
(Not related to Super Break or the video in particular)Around game launch, I played till the prologue & landed in Belobog, cudn't play for a long time since then. Returned in April this year & completed all story, also recently started an alt & by the time I came to Belobog, I thought in my mind - damn, this game is a bit of a disappointment. The drastic increase in new boss stats(Hoolay can take about 8 turns(actions) in a row) & to mitigate it, newer units with high multipliers, SB dmg, self-implant, toughness reduction, Res-Pen & Ignore Def will become common that there will be no difference b/w PvP games meta & HSR meta(10-20 units are used everywhere). Personally, I wud like them to do direct buffs & balances to units bcoz relics & spports can only help u so much if ur kit or multipliers aren't worth it. I will play the game bcoz I like the story & chars(want to see the future story), but gameplay wise the game's losing charm. (Just to be clear I did finish MoC though not 36* bcoz no FF or premium FuA units)
I started playing HSR during 2.3 so I'm relatively a new player, I feel like super break is extremely new player friendly, basically got the whole FF super break team from the get go by only pulling e0s0 FF and e0s0 Ruan mei, and I was able to blow pass early game with no problem and really help me catch up and be able to enjoy new patch update from 2.5 onwards. A lot of older players just don't think about how long it take for newer players to catch up to current content, and I think super break is the best option for newer players to access reliable damage and still allows there to be room for improvement when facing more end game content. If newer players can only rely on break from lv1-20 crutch, then we will basically need to compete with a year worth of gear grinding for a good crit dps set to realistically face any end game content. I understand that it is quite unfair for older players to see their favorite units be power crept with basically just one stats, but watching my other friend that also joined HSR 2 months later with only crit dps I think it is a good thing that superbreak is so accessible.
the main reason why it feels stronger imo is because of them focusing on those in the majority of content. exo toughness adds another layer of that instance of dmg. apocalyptic shadow takes reduced dmg untell broken, so breaking faster gives more dmg. and more things like this. im fairly sure that every mode in the last little bit has had some case of increasing break in some way. and the thing that adds even more into this is break is considered a reward for understanding the content in some way. so when we start getting away from things that stop give some kind of bonus towards it, ive personally understand it as its not that strong over proper builds because it has a barrier of even attempting to get damage out. as to how it looks long term, i think when players have multi eidolons(which considering its a gacha i dont expect people to even have E1) the scaling goes in favor away from break. break just fundamentally just acts as a max base line for 90%+ of characters kits because toughness breaking is a flat stat that rarely changes between buffs/eidolons.
So i don’t think super break is a problem. The problem is htb. He just make the entire super break broken just because he gives both break effect and increase the super break he provides without much of a trade off. Currently with super break enablers they will get compared to htb who gives 160% (assuming you are against one enemy) super break damage. If he just provided break effect and the enable of super break it wouldn’t be as dominant as it is but still be powerful. They also kinda pigeon hold themselves with htb because now any super break enabler that a 5 star will be compared to him because how powerful he is.
This. Play a Firefly team without Harmony TB and you'll realize that she's solid but pretty mid damage dealer. FF can lock something down on her own and do a bit of extra damage when breaking, but she's not able to pull those real magical numbers without HTB enabling super-break. Also, unless something like Nihility TB causes DoTs to crit, this is the de-facto version of Trailblazer and there's no reason to ever swap away from it, it's so strong.
@@Tonbizzle so for nihility there another way to make them strong without enabling dots to crit. Enable dots to heal and regen energy. Now is that as strong as the super break. Probably if tb also applies dots given the Kafka’s team would then have 3 dots going off (4 to 5 dots depending on the team you use and if you break) or just make him do something no nihility have done before be able to freeze without breaking (this also will depend on some things)
Bro suddenly realized meta exists. So were DHIL, Jing Liu and all of these characters meta, pushing the damage numbers up. It’s not super break, Literally every subsequent released unit broke the damage numbers. Adventurine is supposed to be a shielder, yet his follow ups can blast numbers up to a million with his signature lc. Super break scales off of break effect, and I don’t know how familiar you are with basic break scaling but some weakness breaks deal more than others. Super break is to compensate for that exact issue. Make all types of weakness break viable and give characters a damage source that can compete with follow up teams. Is it a bandaid solution? Maybe, they could have played into basic break scaling more but it is how games work. Sometimes the simple solution works best and in that regard it enables other characters simply because every unit is capable of breaking enemy toughness. Not every unit is capable of using follow up sets. I believe super break is pretty good it helps getting older units more usage and makes them somewhat viable in modern endgame. Compared super break damage numbers are still much smaller than what some follow up teams are capable of pressing. Especially your critrate solution with the 2nd crit from the cap is basically what super break is. I agree that the early game landscape is not what it used to be, that the game has gotten much easier after unlocking harmony mc but that’s because you get harmony mc a unit released in 2.x in patches for 1.x to fix the early game issue make harmony mc available in penacony. All the other issues you mentioned seemed more like a personal grudge against break effect as a whole which makes no sense to me. It’s another variable on the board and allows more team comps to happen and be used and basically incentivizes exactly that what you say it doesn’t. Now you see teams like feixiao super break, super blade and so on. I like that, you’re not limited to one and only one value anymore and can make break rolls viable while the dedicated units still outperform the other units. I can’t play my firefly as a follow up character but they added lingsha and she basically can scale with follow up, just not as good as dedicated follow up units.
@@shutup1037 If super break is such a big issue why do moc 2.5 usage rates not reflect that? Top of the pack is Feixiao and other follow up units? Even after the lingsha banner Superbreak units were clearing moc slower than the current follow up meta. Especially considering Feixiao's high usage rate,, follow up cleared moc in roughly 6 cycles. While all super break characters (aside from lingsha) were 6.5 or higher. You can find the data online, do some research - It really shouldn't be that hard.
It's only a matter of time when they will put another bossfight/enemy types who would lock their toughness bars. And is still hard to build a Break DPS, same as other DPS units when you need specific stats for it, like Speed and Break effect only. Actually Glad they added Superbreak mechanic into the game. Coz before, Rolling into Break Effect is basically a Dead Stat when you can only proc it ONCE after specifically making that character deal the final toughness blow. There were many times that your sustains would take away those breaks and deal wasted mediocre damage. On top of Enemies just waking up immediately after being weakness broken, coz the action delay is stupidly low/negligible....unless you put Ruan Mei in those teams. BE Sushang, while she can deal tons of damage WHEN she does the breaking....What then? Her entire kit is solely reliant on enemies in their broken state but her scalings are still Atk%, And you can only proc Break DMG once per Initial Breaks....not when they are in their broken state. So Superbreak is what's basically fixing this dead stat to begin with. And with the exo toughness getting added, you can have 2x the Break DOTs, delays and talent procs that rely on breaking enemies like Himeko.
since its introduction, i think its 2.1 the only superbreak characater introduced where boothill(that prefers not using superbreak so idk if it counts), firefly rappa, lingsha and fugue. while we got acheron aventurine, robin, jade, yunli, jiaoqiu, feixiao and sunday. more characters have been catered towards fua than superbreak
You mean like 80% of 1.0 Characters were Crit Hypercarry DPS? If you already complaining wait till 3.0 bc im pretty sure the 3.x Cycle will also favour 2 differend Playstyles (Summon+ maybe Dot??) and in 1 Year people complaining about the 7th new Summon DPS.
6:17 but this is the game mechanic from the very start no? until there's a unit that can ignore toughness bar, which is basically has default def / res ignore, breaking your enemy is crucial even for non break teams cause it amplifies damage output
We've already seen them "nerf" Superbreak by adding more toughness bar to Hoolay but they can really only go so far with that or non SB teams will be the only things that cant break bosses. 8:14 Adding chance to mechanics sounds good on paper but in practice it feels bad (think YanKINGs FU or Qingque skill). It will just feel bad at the end of the day if you're at that point and cause frustration. Maybe something like every time you break an enemy they get more toughness bar added. That could also get out of hand so I'm not sure My hot take would be that they buff old MC Paths (since everyone has them) and try and make it a meaningful choice to use HMC over say DMC or PMC. They will never do this though.
@@mauriciorosademoraes9209 No, it didn't. Boothill has a limit on how much the Talent's Break DMG can scale with Toughness (16 times the BA's Toughness Reduction = 10 × 16 = 160). Hoolay has 240 Toughness, already past Boothill's max cap. Increasing the Toughness Bar will only make Boothill (and any other Break DPS) take longer to Break (and Breaking the Bar itself doesn't give Boothill any exclusive advantage, he'll deal as much Damage as any Break character with the same amount of BE as him). That's why Exo-Toughness is so valuable: the higher the Toughness Bar, the higher the Break DMG, and Exo-Toughness deals the same Break DMG as regular Toughness, being half the size. If enemies start to have 280+ Toughness, Breaking a Bar will deal more damage than Boothill's Talent (His Talent considers 160 Toughness to cause 170% Break DMG, so it causes Break DMG up the equivalent to 272 Toughness).
This kind of reminds me of every time a character comes out, and regardless of what their role is, people try and make them a dps, even if they're a healer. But in this case, super break is actually Good in that respect. So I see where your coming from. But Im sure the Meta will shift constantly to different things / players will get bored of Super Break. New players to games like this will always have a lot on their plate once a good amount of time has passed. Great Video!
I get what you mean about break affecting new players. Since I started this game just before Boothill came out, he was my first limited character. Cause of that, my only experience the entire game was based on breaking everything, So when I got to endgame and I had to actually learn how to build other types of characters, (i got yunli and she was built terribly for a while lmao) On top of that it turns out I went the entire game on blue relics with very little actual stats, and the fact the I literally deleted every boss in the story like that, yeah break is definitely strong lmao.
They wont. They just abandon the Meta and move to a differend Playstyle. Fugue will be the Last Superbreak Character so we have 8 dedicated FUA and 8 dedicated Break Character. Now its Time for Summon and a 2nd Playstyle. And i bet this is the Scheme they will use for every Patch Cycle. Every Major Update will favour 2 Gameplay Styles that will be focussed on and get all the love until the next Update comes out.
Superbreak doesn't need a solution. Superbreak was fixing an inherent flaw with break teams (you get one instance of damage across an entire team), but other teams don't have similar issues, all they need is adjusted multipliers to do similar damage. At this stage it's basically the only team in the game along with follow-up that is going to have a full limited 5 star roster so the other teams are going to catch up anyway. Give it like two patches before everyone is complaining that they have to pull summon units.
I've found that super break has an entirely different health bar to normal with the toughness bar. It's no longer how much damage you can do, but how much toughness damage you can do. I recon just adding more toughness so that breaks take longer rather than just increasing hp would help balance things out. It basically becomes a different HP bar.
i never used harmony mc until i could properly build them like i have just finished the 2.3 story quest and i spent a while building my main characters i had on my team
My main issue with break meta in general is something you covered, in that it's WAY too easy. In a turn based game that's also *supposed* to be strategy based, break meta just makes players turn on autoplay mode and just skip through every single bit of content the game has to offer. Firefly's mechanics, for example, is just "spam skill to win". This is NOT a good thing. I play games to play them. Not to have the game play itself.
I built my E2 Natasha for Break Effect because of curiosity/insanity, and now she manages to deal 204k in Super Break alone in correct circumstances Natasha.
The best option would be to do actual regular balance patches which do not just nerf but nerf/buff to keep characters relevant and sell new characters not for clear fomo but for design and playstyle.
Honestly I think what genshin did in fontaine to deal with the aftermath of sumeru and dendro was a pretty good way of going about it. Outside of neuvilette being him the other units that got released in fontaine had kits that basically gave them power to rival dendro and its reactions also units working off of "forgotten" mechanics was a cool thing to see. Navia using crystalize to amplify her own damage, lynel being a mono pyro specialist even freminet who isn't good due to the virtue of being a 4* dps still did the same thing with shattering frozen enemies. I think if hsr made other archetypes better via release of x y z or whatever and putting them on par with superbreak and then just incentivizing different teams because of a certain enemy design would be the way to go. If everything is broken nothing is broken and it doesnt feel awful for the player.
'Hot Take' Retorts to each solution- Unbreakable Phase until Condition Met: A standard Crit Hypercarry Team/DoT Team can get around this Shields: DoT Teams can bypass this with little to no issue, can also dispel the Buff via Pela & Lightcones that give this effect/future units that do so ALTERNATIVELY.... STOP Caring about 0 to 1 Cycle Clears for MoC/PF/ApocSha Future Imprison Scaling DPS - I'm fairly positive we: 1) Have Welt, who can already do so with his Ult, among other methods. 2) If this future dropped, chances are it'll be done via their Skill or some sort of Effect they can inflict on the enemy; hence building EHR anew in order to consistently apply this condition & still deal increased Damage. They probably would get a similar Atk% or Imaginary Dmg% Bonus based on EHR just like how Black Swan did in her Kit, up to 120% or maybe even a bit higher. Toughness Bar/Shield mechanics would actually make the endgame very intricate & it wouldn't deviate/make content harder unless you as a Player were woefully unprepared. By that time, since we're nearing 3.0, unless you either: Started the Game recently, or have been away for 1+ Years like myself; chances are you shouldn't have much issue with these mechanics if they come to light. Especially with the hypothetical future Unit that one will WILL come. I quite frankly, love that theoretical idea of scaling increased dmg% based on enemies being imprisoned. Now for the end of the video you mentioned new enemies that would counter/interact with those mechanics like Super Break & whatnot. That could be cool, something like that Mage Fragmented Enemy that says: Counter Atk when you as a player use a Skill, or use Basic Attack, or Attack her specifically. THAT'S cool! Since it'll make you build around either: "alright, if I wanna use my mechanic that'll get countered, I also need to make sure I can either outheal the dmg dealt back to me, or outright massacre in 1 to 2 big Hits", or, build a different team to avoid getting countered. Which is fine, but then will also introduce the issue of some players, new & old, not having a wide enough roster to deal with that due to either Vertical or Linear account/team building.
I think that Super Break is not a problem at all, like u said it is very strong feature but u arent really forced to use it if u don't want too. There is people i know who play HSR only for story and for collecting character they like, they don't care about the end game content so for them using super break just to speed run any game content is a blessing. As for myself i do sometimes just wanna speed run end game content myself and end up using super break but sometimes i feel like using FUA or DOT or anything else.
superbreak blade is good cause his multipliers are horrendous and superbreak doesnt rely on multipliers plus he is sp positive and more actions on him make him deal more damage
As someone who just started the game and is definitely nowhere close to endgame mechanics, I... thought superbreak was odd at first, but I do kind of enjoy how it makes you think ahead. Because I have to not only manage the upkeep of the Trailblazer's ultimate to be ready in time, but also take care to break the enemy at the right time so all my characters actually get a turn to deal their superbreak damage. If I break the enemy just before its own turn, its just going to regenerate the shield and all the rounds leading up to it are wasted.
I think a good mechanic could have been that whenever you deal super break damage, some of their toughness bar "recharges" and once it fills up, they aren't broken anymore. This would make it so you have to break them all over again, and would limit how much damage you could deal per down and it would emphasize when to use certain skills and ults, and how well did you build your whole team for SB not just your DPS and "oh, hey you have HMC and Ruan Mei, here's a billion free damage"
@dinocharlie1 That's a unique idea, though it would probably mess with the new exo toughness mechanic. Maybe something like "dealing a certain number of break damage hits fully refills the bar" and that way you have to manage a second "timer" of sorts apart from the enemies' speed. Ex, you wouldn't want to use a ruan mei basic attack to hit the weakness broken enemy because that would use one hit - so you'd have to attack a different monster or skill instead
I really dont understand what everyone means with this "free dmg" bs.. so is feixiao not free dmg? You literally only need Robin and Feixiao and you are gonna deal ridiculous dmg, without even needing to break enemies. So how is it that break is "free dmg" and bad for the game but feixiao is fine?
@@zzzy1934Literally everyone on a SB team deals damage even their healers how is it not "free"? A healer which typically wouldve done a poopoo 2k basic now deals 150k cuz why not
@Alsace9 ok? Fua team also does that with Robin and Aventurine, and btw there is no basic that does 150k unless you break with that basic or if its gallagher eba. Fua team is way more op than break team is and people for some reason dont want to talk about that
They could maybe create a game mode wherein enemies do not have toughness bar... or wherein enemies are resistant from super break damage. For me, I do not actually hate it when bosses have super high HP as long as there is no cycle or time limit. I would enjoy a good long boss fight with challenging mechanics.
That would definitely be an interesting solution - and I fully agree about the time limit. If MoC didn't have a cycle requirement and Apoc didnt have a threshold of points then challenging fights would be good. Unfortunately hoyo is pretty adverse to challenging their players so idk if we'll ever get stuff like that.
I don't hate super break because I don't understand it. I was hoping this video would explain what super break is but no problem it's something I assumed on my own
Pretty new to hsr. I can tell you that super break is ok but I still struggle with end game. 😢 it true my other crit characters cannot get me as far. But I am glad they have super break also.
As someone who really likes to play Superbreak, valid points. I feel like they could nerf super break by adding enemies who take less damage while weakness broken, kinda like with memory zone memes and their safe guard. Those enemies encourage you to break them, so why not introduce enemies who encourage you not to break them. This could still affect other playstyles, but it is a way to fix it.
I won't be surprised if suddenly there is a boss that cannot be broken (no break bar). Or a boss with insanity modifier that unlock something, additional stat or skill, after their break bar got broken. Lemme know if there is already one, I haven't played after finishing the penacony arc.
Increasing Mobs Max HP is what i hate but i love in the same time. What i love is this keep player enjoy endgame contents but what i hate is it some team like DOT lost the ability to full clear like they used to be because Hoyoverse left it behind. I saw a video about a person crying while attempting current MOC 12 for more than an hour using DOT and said "My Dot team used to full clear MOC but not anymore"
The game refuses to give me break and dot characters when i was first played the game, so I just stick with crit rate/dmg characters to the point I only pull for them now. Im invested in crit and the FuA playstyle.
i dont really have a problem with superbreak specifically, its just that any new meta is kinda needed to clear late game content. i still dont fully clear endgame content because i cant. i have an ok hypercarry jingliu team and am actively building a fua team (started doing that with getting feixiao last patch). back when fua was new i actually didnt like it cause that meant my jingliu was bad for new moc cause the buffs helped fua and not my current team. i was so reluctunt to switch archetype that i completly skipped the whole dot meta and stayed on my jingliu hypercarry team that whole period (it was mostly out of spite but also was becuase i didnt wanna learn a whole new archetype and way of playing the game). but when topaz released i was still a bit reluctant to get the start of fua cause i had dhil that i could work on instead of pulling, i decided to get her cause, after dot, fua would be the new meta and it was (i also pulled her cause thighs but lets ignore that lol). idk where im going with this but i just feel like as a f2p ill always struggle to clear shit without all the new toys hoyo releases im reading over this wall of text and it comes off as a bit whiny so to whoever felt like reading this im sorry xd
5:52 I disagree, Superbreak early game doesn't provide that much value considering superbreak (and break) scales on ally lvl, and with the lack of BE and asides from HMC break supports early on would probably balance the scale atleast early game
You can disagree but do you have experience? I do! I started a week before Firefly came out, and the moment they gave me Harmony MC when I was in the middle of the story everything became an absolute breeze (from around after Belubog), I was freaking out going ??? only began to run into problems when I came to penacony and got my ass handed to me by some monsters, the assasin boss, and the Aventurine salesman monkey.
@Rainbowsaur Honestly thats just because the game itself at those points is super easy, especially the main story The overworld game's difficulty picks up at Penacony which is accurate
hsr powercreep feels like it increases enemy hp with every big release with acheron having probably the biggest ceiling and biggest enemy hp increase in 1 patch and all they have to do is make tons of different niches like with servants and eventually drop support for them to make it even more annoying to stay caught up and the thing with genshin i realize its so much easier without constant double banners of new characters and a set of elements that wont change until many years later making its powercreep feel tame(all we have to look at is inazuma to penacony) and feeling like you can stay caught up plus with genshin buffing every reaction besides the real strong ones and geo(rip geo) HSR honestly is more generous because it needs to be but with what little extra it gives not even enough for another pity in trade for constant double banners it feels like a massive downside
Imprisonment is funny since welts part of the standard banner and his ult applies Imprisonment even without breaking a enemy wich is y I still use him that and iv got his light cones and sigh his e5
What I don’t like about super break is that you HAVE to have ONE specific character in your party in order to utilize it. I like having choices and using different team comps, so having an entire play style/mechanic revolve around ONE character is just stupid.
I don't really feel that Super Break is a problem. Yes, it's easier to build a character for Super Break than it is for Crit DMG, just like DoT is mainly just ATK and SPD. Characters like Firefly also scale off ATK so you have an incentive to build at least 3 stats. Super Break is not inherently better than CRIT either. Break teams feel strong because we had a perfect Super Break engine since the very beginning (HMC/Ruan Mei/DPS), but compare the Super Break team to a Feixiao team (another perfect team) and you get similar results - In fact Follow-Up is considered the strongest archetype right now. Not to mention Acheron's team which will achieve an even higher status when we get a second best-in-slot Nihility for her. When it comes to early game, I don't think breaking enemies is less valid than the "proper mechanics" of hitting things as hard as you can with your hypercarry. I do believe that the universal Toughness reduction that our Super Break DPS have trivializes the challenge of Break too much. The idea of making content catered to certain playstyles... Isn't that in the game already? I do wish they expanded into the (regular) Break archetype instead of forcing SB as the only viable alternative, but Super Break can coexist with other playstyles without any issue.
and imo we already had the most annoying enemy mechanic ingame, it was Gepards shield that buffs absolute dmg immunity to them so you have to hit them multiple times with what ever you got until they receive dmg again
The worst effect of super break is the hp inflation. Originally the hp inflation was already pretty bad but with superbreak increasing the dmg ceiling so much the bosses eventually just become a dmg sponge that is tedious to fight rather than challenging. This wouldn’t be as bad if there was no time limit but there is. I think instead of increasing hp they should add a mechanic where certain enemies have a toughness dmg resistance which would make it harder for superbreak to achieve the window of dmg during weakness broken state but not make break completely useless
Tbh, if I had to think about it, as someone who enjoys mostly the break mechanic, I feel like superbreak was a way for Hoyo to say "look, we increased the enemies' HP in 2.1 because 95% of the playerbase got Acheron and she's broken af because reasons, but for the newer players or the Acheronless people we've got you with that free enabler". Like what you mentioned with Genshin and Hoolay but, do people forget the Aventurine boss & the Acheron situation was the first coming of the actual "powercreep" ? We always got stat inflation and superbreak is a cause of this but... not only superbreak, just the numbers that the newest shiny toy lands. Like man, I know this MOC is suited for Rappa, but an comically underinvested Rappa (I stole Boothill's relics and just started doing her traces on what... Friday ?) doing 700k screenshot damage at the end of one of her turns is just crazy. As you said, the multipliers are just getting bigger atp and they're increasing HP. I also don't agree that you can just use any dps with their crit build and you're good to go. What makes Himeko in superbreak teams relevant is that she wants to break enemies anyway. What makes Xueyi in superbreak teams relevant is that she wants to deal toughness damage & she also wants break effect for her own damage scaling (btw, break subs on Xueyi are least important than crit subs in any cases, so people who would take the 25% break relic over the double crit one would lose damage in the end ironically). What makes Luka in superbreak teams relevant is the high power of the Physical break and being able to reproc his DoT. Still, are people using Clara with superbreak or units like JY or Yunli with high toughness depletion ? No because there still are broken ass harmonies and nihilities that scale better with them. All of this to say, while I agree superbreak is part of the problem it is not THE problem. The problem is more that powercreep is getting quicker. At least the new supps make old units still relevant if you pull for them (cough Hook who 4 cycles Hoolay cough), which is a good thing, and let's be honest Himeko without superbreak wouldn't see any usage out of PF. I also feel like people that are asking for a 2nd superbreak enabler / Ruan Mei don't realise that first if they do that they'll need to actually powercreep the harmony units that are already having these roles (so break would be actually even more busted lol) and that they can't do that for their own fucking profit because running two break teams = adios weakness matching. If they gave us the option to bruteforce content regardless of what weakness it has, just pull the characters that you need for those teams and your favorites, and what's the point of spending, unless yeah the rerun schedule sucks. I feel like superbreak at its core is fine, it also lacks multipliers compared to other types of DPS who could struggle more to build the right stats - break was a mechanic they wanted to implement because it forces you to use the right elements but the way it was implemented didn't make it worth it. The Break DPSes need to be able to "bruteforce" any weakness because otherwise they do 2 dmg (3 on a good day) and it's their caveat, which is fine at least they HAVE a strong caveat (I'm sorry but Feixiao in that sense.... her caveat being that yeah she needs allies that attack a lot, yeah yippee those exist as f2p friendly units). What isn't fine is when all of your fucking content is geared towards break. The new MOC ? Exo toughness so you want to use break dpses (obv for Rappa). AS ? You need ontype characters... Or you can bruteforce with break chars. PF ? Gets break orieted buffs, ofc you can emulate the breaks with the buffs but it's like DoT PF - you really want to use the mechanic to make your life easier. I enjoy using Boothill and lately also Rappa in endgame content (Firefly feels "too easy" to me and I quite love superbreak Himeko, but I can't be too harsh with her because she's a really beginner friendly dps, unlike the Galaxy Rangers that take more understanding of the game's mechanics to really maximise their potential), so I obv can't criticize break too much, I like superbreak and it's fun but I feel like it's just too shilled for content nowadays. But as we near 3.x I feel like it's going to change, Break will stay strong but less shilled and buffs help those units to shine too. TL;DR : They wanted to make break feel relevant and they pushed it too far into the spotlight, people are angry because they feel pressured into using superbreak, but it's really the same as the 1.x hypercarry/dot propaganda where you'd feel fucking bad and lacking whenever you didn't have a Kafka for that juicy DoT bonuses over and over again. The difference is now they make you feel like f2p units can unblock you so you're more tempted to commit to the meta, after all it's a f2p unit, so you can build them right (no because it costs resources which are usually even worse to get than jades) ? As every meta though it's going to change, and be less in the spotlight at one point, just a regular meta. Break is a meta like other metas like DoT that are annoying mainly because Hoyo keeps shilling them, which is hella annoying I agree, but there are downsides to break people don't see usually - less multipliers, more difficult to minmax like DoT for relics (you do want only two substats but you do want only those to roll so good luck minmaxing you're gonna roll more pieces statistically), dependance on the enemies' toughness bar (fast recoveries, covering the toughness bars are two of the worst things for break dpses).
I'll say this as I said how to solve this issue which is similar to Genshin's stagnation in terms of combat and playstyle, ADD NEW PATHS. HSR can add new roles through new Paths and it still won't ruin the immersion or lore of the game. HSR can literally open up Elation as a new playable path characters and be chaotic about it as how it is in lore. In terms of gameplay, Elation can something RNG like Qingque, but instead of doing damage you roll for a random buff(s), as for Ult, the character can specifically select the buff instead of randomly rolling for it. Something not Elation character can be someone like summoning a mini unit and now there's 5 total units on the field (battle), but the mini unit dies when the actual summoner character dies. To make it more interesting, the mini unit can't be summoned once it dies, so it acts as another important teammate rather than just possible meatshield. All in all, HSR has tons of ideas they can just implement for developing new characters. I forgot to mention that they can add new elements so it adds variety. Superbreak right now is heavily favored because of how easy it is to build on characters that favors from it. I only hope that they stop with the superbreak characters and start adding unique ideas.
Don't worry in 3.X the new metas are gonna be even stronger and the difficulty in the endgame is gonna increase. So superbreak is gonna fall off relative to how it is right now.
I never got Ruan Mei or Firefly. Now DoT and Jingliu are basically dead in the ditch and the last few months have been... a struggle. I kinda don't see Hoyo leaning away from gearing the endgame towards Superbreak in the foreseeable future either. Glad I'm not the only one who is critical of this stuff
i feel like for break units, superbreak was necessary to give them more damage uptime. however, because break slows down the enemy or disables the attack, with the way a lot of break units (ex. ruan mei, boothill) delay the enemy, break makes the game feel a lot less... turn based. i like the fua style a lot more because it feels so much more strategic with how you attack enemies and counter their attacks, and i don't get the same kind of feeling from break. i mainly pull for characters that i like and i have boothill + ruan mei and intend to get fugue, but i'll probably be avoiding break if i can because it's just not fun.
Definitely agree with your points - if SB strictly was the extra damage added on top(like a double crit would be that I mentioned in the MoC section), it wouldn't be that bad. It's when you look at everything break does on top of just the damage that it becomes a bigger issue.
This is why I have a like 300 spd hoolay in my MOC rn. Without robin,adventurine or even yunli & blade to just slow play it it was a big pain. Glad to see someone talking about this cause oh boy genshin abyss inflation was crazy
Something about superbreak that you didn't mention is that, when using superbreak, you're also breaking very quickly. What this means is that the enemy has their turn delayed and, if you're using Ruan Mei, they get their turn delayed even more. So not only does superbreak do a ton of damage, it's also incredibly safe, as the enemy doesn't have many chances to do a ton of damage back to you.
This entire video is why I don't play meta and just focus on characters I like. I almost never optimize my teams. When I stopped playing Genshin just before Fontaine, I still had Noelle on my team despite having a fully built Zhongli and Itto. Currently in HSR, I have a team built around Pela. I play waifu over meta.
Break including Superbreak can be Hard Countered if they released more enemies with Toughness lock (Though beyond more enemies with Toughness lock, I don't see them releasing enemies that can give all enemies Toughness lock or mechanics in MOC PF or AS with Toughness lock for that entire endgame cycle due to the Popularity of Firefly, Though they could also Release more Hoolay styled enemies that are super fast and maybe also give them Delay resistance or Break/Superbreak resistance.
People say just wait until DoTs can crit lmao bro wait until Break can crit
💀no I will cry if dot gets powercrepted by break again
Bro wait until crits can crit, a supercrit
@@bef5582 see this HoYo. This is true innovation
Any sane dot enjoyer doesn't want dots to crit we just don't have the gear budget for crit and crit DMG especially a unit like black swan
@@Zoeila I’m sure your crit dot character will be better off as a healer that scales off EHR not actual crit rate crit dmg. Or better Super Dot. Sampo Imbibitor Lunae
It seems to me that Superbreak was their way of making Break less useless since before Superbreak nobody cared about Break, but they ended up overdoing it.
That's why they made HMC since otherwise nobody would use characters like Firefly or Rappa who depend on SuperBreak, and that's why I don't consider HMC "broken" since they exist to avoid a Kafka situation where an entire mechanic is locked behind a limited character (DoT is useless outside of SU without Her).
As for how they're going to nerf Super Break, it's likely that it'll be a mix of inflating the enemies' HP + Gimmicks that just scream "Use the new character or have double the difficulty"
I really don't think there was any good middle ground they could have gotten with this
Extremely fast enemies already do the job of not allowing super break to exploit it too long, simply because they recover that fast
Inflating HP numbers would do even worse
That's why rm exists to delay them. Once rm delays the enemies they are pretty much dead.@@jakkees
DoT is still good without Kafka but you'd need at least Black Swan to make it useful. Sampo paired with Guinaifen can work but it's not nearly as strong as with either of those units.
or enemies who cant be broken?
I just don't like that quite a few characters nowadays don't care about enemy weaknesses. Boothill, Acheron, Feixiao, Firefly, and now Rappa can deal tougness damage regardless of weakness. Superbreak is already strong. We don't need to make it even easier.
Tbh this slipped my mind when making the video, but yeah 100% agree. It's not even about break being able to take such good advantage of that, because feixiao and acheron can do it too. It just takes away a layer of game mechanics where you're meant to bring the proper element, I mean why would you if you can ignore it?
I actually like this because the method to obtain the units r hard, u need to save and then gamble to get it. Turn based games naturally has to have typing and so the amount of characters needed to fulfil each typing would be alot too, this is also why hsr is pumping characters out like crazy since release, they need a lot of different characters just to make the game fresh.
Now why superbreak is a mistake? Well its not, it is not a mistake if it is weaker. Super breaking is just the specific typing model that is pretty good for what the game is trying to do, making each character do well on their element. But weakness ignore is the main problem, usually when theres a unit that can straight up ignore typing will always be weaker than those that is specific to that typing.
Well it appears thats not the case in this game, just pull feixiao and firefly and ure good
@@fl2ur i'd agree with that, but the main problem is nobody wants a unit that becomes useless is even one enemy is not weak to it, like firefly for instance, she's lose so much value from not being able to beat any non fire weak enemy. It would simply be way too frustrating to use
@skullthefan8914 That's fair - but I think there's definitely better ways to do it than "I implant my weakness on whatever I attack and then deal full toughness break regardless of who/what you are". If they want to give essentially universal toughness break then it needs to be more balanced or deal less toughness break to the non main element, kinda like Rappa.
@@fl2ur exactly instead of powercreep I hoped star rail would go the way early genshin went that different elements are valuable so the need for powercreep is not there instead building different element dps is what makes you want to pull. but with that out of the window plain powercreep is coming and i hate it
The hp inflation of bosses due to the break meta is the most annoying thing for me
They just needed to change how Break Effect works and we shouldn't have issues nowadays. They made Xueyi, an amazing concept, and they didn't work around her.
I mean, it's just an attempt at combining crit destruction blasts with fua combined, so her dmg output predictably ended up being terrible without ruan mei AND a good build
I'm pretty sure there's going to be an upcoming unit with a similar concept, but much more refined just like what they do with other 4★
Still waiting for the hp loss meta
brother we are STARVING, literally make blade great again
Dot is dead
@@cucumbercytusDOT is part of HP loss?
Granblue has something called "Enmity" which boosts your damage the lower your HP is
Make Arlan Nanook again
I’m just mad bc they definitely skipped a few steps before just throwing amazing super break stuff at us. Like, we never really had a semi-decent real JUST PLAIN BREAK dps and then they threw in Harmony trailblazer. I would have liked to see a more natural progression of things instead of just making Super Break super OP.
Well there are plain Break dps b4 Super Break,its called Boothill
Beside the issue of needing a but ton of break multipliers for break dps to deal dmg,you also only have like one chance per cycle to deal any meaningful dmg
Like you can break an enemy then they recover,you reduce their toughness and break it next cycle, other than Boothill,every other break can at best deal like 200k per cycle and that just horrendous,there is a reason why Boothill is very hard to play,you literally get one chance to make a shot and have to make it worth
We had Luka but nobody other than people who do 4* clears cared about him for some reason, and he was really strong for a 4* sub DPS while also not being braindead to play. Xueyi also exists but her break is more of a gimmick rather than her main damage source.
kid named xueyi:
Boothill was released half a patch after Harmony TB though, so superbreak dis come before the first 5star break dps. One can argue that Luka, Sushang and Xueyi are all Break dps characters but since they are 4star neither ever took off.
People were building break Silver Wolf back in the day, then we got Ruan Mei and Xueyi and it actually became more of a thing, but still underwhelming. It wasn't until Harmony Trailblazer and Gallagher arrived until it became the latest iteration; we've since had Boothill, Firefly, Lingsha and Rappa.
I don't think break came out of nowhere. It had a steady incline in power.
I also disagree with the idea that it's miles ahead of anything else. We've been fighting the choir for the past 5 months _(enemies designed to be broken, that take a huge chunk of damage when broken, then receive 50% vulnerability)_ and we've also had an excessive amount of break modifiers on all end-game content.
This is a Honkai game. If it's going to be anything like HI3 (which it seems to be), superbreak will just get powercrept by characters with higher multipliers
And they can make it go back by releasing a support that has higher super break multiplier
@@AristineSilvanus Does Fugue ring a bell?
Tbh my problem isn't with super break as a concept... my problem is when the game keeps forcing it on me, making end game content buffs specifically to that mechanic, I'm a fua enjoyer but I'm having a rough time clearing the current moc because I don't have super break dps's, also making players feel forced to follow a certain game mechanic to clear content and therefore, pull for characters, is diabolical... especially when you know 3.x will have a new meta called summon meta... it's not very casual player friendly if you think about it
The problem with this is whoever have Ruan Mei and HMC will get much faster cleartime
It sounds rather hypocritical considering the fact that 2.3 and 2.4 MoCs buffs were heavily catered to fua teams. But yes, that logic can be applied to any of the end game modes such as w/ pure fiction. But who knows, maybe they might make changes to MoC, they did it for pure fiction granted it really doesn't appear to change much from the usual Herta/Acheron brute force or play by the buffs.
You r not forced to play break, thats why there are diff buffs for AS and PF to CHOOSE from but you will have an EASIER time using break just bcoz of the nature of it. If they are catering for one archetype then why do they put different buffs for those modes? In MoC case that mode is just catered to the next shiny DPS always.
MOC is easy for followup we literally have Clara who is perfect for Hoolay and Himeko who is perfect for Choir boss. Followup is the most powerful playstyle in the game right now and has the most powerful support in the game(Robin) if you are having a rough time with that than superbreak won't help you either theres something else going on.
If you feel this way whilst being a fua enjoyer imagine the hypercarry and dot enjoyers.
Superbreak is great because now we can have a break archetype when before it didn’t really exist.
Boothill doesn’t use superbreak but he has his own break retriggering in his kit so it’s similar enough.
dont forget luka who also scales well with break
@@Helbraum luka and xueyi used break but where really lackluster and not that viable
I don't think it's mainly HTB's fault that super break is so broken. While it is "free damage", there's a caveat; the enemy has to be weakness broken. Before they are in that state, you're basically throwing sticks at them until you do break them.
The problem is that alot of DPSes now just straight up ignore that caveat altogether. Boothill has a physical weakness implant on his ult, Firefly can implant fire weakness on BOTH her technique and enhanced skill, and now Rappa just straight up damages toughness bars regardless of weakness type (albeit at a less efficient rate). All while dealing immense toughness bar damage (with Ruan Mei's help) to get these enemies to the weakness broken state as quickly as possible.
You do realize that break characters would be garbage if they couldn't implant weakness or deal toughness dmg regardless of type right? Just imagine firefly without the implant, you would literally only use her on stages that have fire weakness and she is literally useless everywhere else
@@zzzy1934the problem is the rate they can break enemy. This caveat no longer caveat lol, you just breeze through with whoever have Ruan Mei or HMC as support. Too much superbreak shill in the game since Firefraud came out
I think Boothill having a single target implant is fine and its tied to his ult. Firefly on the other hand should only be able to implant it to one enemy per ult.
@shutup1037 why are you acting like thats so op? Feixiao doesn't even need to break and she shreds everyone and everything, you only need her and Robin to make everything easy af. So why is superbreak a problem but feixiao isnt? And dont say its because she needs crit stats and that makes it ok, feixiao is very easy to build, just stack crit rate, robin gives like 40+cdmg by herself, feixiao also got self buffs
@@zzzy1934 THIS. Flexiao and Adventurboi are the most OP chars in the game but everyone is hating on FF instead. I don't get it.
Regular break was always annoying because it was easy mess up, it was so unbalanced for some elements, superbreak was a necessary addition imho. But there is one possible alternative break archetype, that being DOT Break. Luka being able to immediately hit 300k against a 300 toughness elite due to detonating bleed at 1.3x damage simultaneously while breaking was insane. Ruan Mei has really good synergy with dot from all that damage% which is useless on superbreak, but especially due to the break extend giving a second dot proc. Kafka's beta kit had break scaling, also newer divergent blessings, hinting we could get a dot break unit.
The way I see it, Superbreak was them overtuning a game mechanic that should've been there from the start: Doing more damage to broken enemies.
I'd have normally expected to see a multiplier of damage for it, both for regular hits, crits and break focused. So, that kind of superbreak would be built-in on the game mechanic and wouldn't need an activation from any particular character. And in a way to make break builds more worthwhile, you'd make it so that break damage scales well, but also that the same time, you hit harder with non-break focused builds, that way you can have a dual dps team where 1 focuses on breaking, and the other one focuses on ditching heavy damage with crits. Something along those lines. Instead they decided to start the game in 2023 with a very underwhelming break mechanic that didn't reward the player for building break effect, and now they are doing a 180 and overcompensating.
This is pretty much what I feel about superbreak. Like they need 1 year to even know what to do with the enemies that breaking. Instead of making it built in game mechanic, they make it an archtype instead to sell characters, and overcompensating it
Technically this already existed but it was only 10% so not effective enough for the amount of effort it took to break the enemy.
@@AxelSG bad game designing on their part
@@dylans3833 yeah it was pitiful and basically non existent
Not to mention the games tutorial starts showing you hey match the characters type to the enemies weakness. Then fast forward all the meta dps just weakness implant so they can ignore the base strategy of the game
Problem is that wasnt even part of the strat really, most of the time you just ignored types and just used your best dps
There wasn't enough of a reward for breaking enemies for players to actually care
@Avsece_ I think you may be confused due to recentcy bias of current meta allowing you to brute force but back then most players wanted to be on element. We can see this with Silver wolf sales in 1.1.
@@gamer_jss Silverwolf was a brute force method though. She enabled you to just use your preferred carries no matter the enemy.
@@tthorn3 yeah but back then you didn't have any options there was only 3 banners that had been out
@tthorn3 also the main point is that I'm saying a main aspect of the game is weaknesses
As a Firefly main(mostly bc she's my first dps) and also a fan of Super Break,there are some i want to address
1st, Super Break ceiling is abysmally low compare to other types of dmg,there are only 3 multipliets for Super Break: Vulnerability,Def Shred and Break Effect compare to other type(mostly Crits) which have like 7 multipliers or even DoTs that have like 5,its very easy for Super Break to eventually hit a ceiling while Crits can just scale infinitely and while Exo toughness helps Super Break,it barely matters(more on this later)
2nd, Super Break doesnt only scales with just break but also spd, you could argue literally every unit scales with spd but they can always just settle with a spd boots hitting 134 and then pour everything into atk/CV to hit harder but Super Break can only just get more spd for more actions,just look at Super Break units,they all need to build like 150,160 even 170 spd to be good. So Spd might be a bonus for other type of dps,its pretty much mandatoy for a Break dps to function. While yes the invesment to get it going is very low,its pretty much just as hard if not harder to reach the ceiling(which mind you is a lot lower due to how little multipliers affect Super Break)
3rd, About Exo-Toughness,it really doesnt help Super Break all that much, you essentially get 1 additional trigger of Break dmg per enemy which in total is like a 10-15% dmg increase, what Exo Toughness does is allows Break dps to works(Boothill and Rappa),Boothill can literally oneshot Hoolay bc he get to proc his massive Break twice(also reason why Boothill with HMC is used more bc HMC is free and not everyone is smart enough to properly speed tune Bronya and Boothill,Super Break Boothill is quite bad actually) and for Rappa,she get tons of stacks on her talent for like a 500% Break dmg boost
4th, While its free dmg for newer players, Super Break scales very hard with toughness break efficiency, a lot of the time it wont really deal that much dmg. Also i feel that for early game you get more of an emphasize on breaking the enemy(bringing the correct element) so you get some bonus dmg cuz the 1.11 multiplier on weakened enemies isnt easy to be visualized
5th, While Super Break is absolutely Broken(pun intended),it somewhat helps with the issue of Break being a dead stat b4 that. B4 HMC there is like 2 unit that build break,Silverwolf for Entanglement in Mono Quantum or Luka for bleed proc,both of which sucks,SW is only in Mono Quant(elsewhere she'll use Wind set for more actions). While Xueyi have break scaling,she is still a crit dps that occasionally want some break rows on her double crit relics,not much changed from the norm of crit dps.
Lastly about "nerfing" Super Break,its somewhat simple,just make Boss with akward weaknesses, Super Break as a team is like a literally team, everyone contribute some dmg but most importantly reduce toughness. Boss with awkward toughness doesnt really affect regular crit dps but absolutely fucks Super Break, just look at Hoolay,due to a lack of Imaginary weakness that Firefly performs significantly worse due to HMC cant help with toughness breaking
In no way im defending SP,the thing is broken as fuck but there are smthg you need to consider, this is quite a long comment but hope you read it though
@hoangnguyen0721 Hey, appreciate the watch and comment - here's a couple thoughts I had reading through it
I don't think it's really true to say that superbreaks ceiling is really low compared to the other types, because atk%, crit, dmg%, etc all have diminishing returns. You can see that in the events hoyo runs every so often where our characters can get like 900% attack boosts and whatnot and while they deal a lot of damage it's never what you'd really expect from a 900% boost.
Also, I don't think that break was dead before superbreak, it was just unexplored as a damage modifier. Like I mentioned in the video, it actually dealt good damage early game(I ran break hook for the first few cycles of MoC for example) and then overtime it became less relevant once we got better crit stats. Xueyi brought the stat back into relevance, but by nature of being a 4 star I don't think she really pushed the potential of what a break dps could have been(anti synergy with ruan mei didn't really help either).
Basically instead of introducing a new mechanic to "fix" the break stat I wish they iterated more on what they already had. There was a lot of nuance in knowing how much toughness your characters did and how to do your team rotation to get the right person to break/etc that just doesn't exist with superbreak as it is now - because all that matters is breaking them and then you get to deal the damage.
Anyway, feel free to make longer comments as much as you want, I'm always looking for other opinions on things and again, I appreciate the watch!
Just to clarify on your first point, while super break has a lower ceiling, the amount of stats required to pass it with a normal crit build is VERY high. And not just engdame high. It's like you need atk and both crits on all 6 pieces and they need every single roll. Yes, the potential is higher, but I have characters that I've farmed for thousands of tb power, and they just barely beat out my super break team that has like 130-140 speed and just barely 250% BE while in combat with all the buffs up. Both my super break DPS have maybe 800 tb power combined since I just took the pieces that had less break effect for the second dps. Boots were enough speed at that point.
Everything else I agree with, especially the speed point. Because you only need one of 3 leftover roles for speed, but with atk and both crit stats, there's only one slot left that can roll speed, so it's a lot easier to build speed and not lose damage per hit, which I think is why they need to be so fast.
@@fl2ur for your first point cuz i agreed with others
Super Break also have diminishing return and its already very close to that due to its base number being so high already
HMC Super Break is up to 160% so if another source of SB is added,like say the "leaked" 100% that Fugue gives on top of Firefly base 60%,going from bonus 220% to 320% is a 31% dmg increase at the cost of a whole nother unit while crit/dot can just get that with a Lightcone
Or like say Ruan Mei,her initial 50% Break Efficiency is a 1.5 multiplier,but then the next 50% from FF's kit will be a 1.3 multiplier,then the next 50%(from smthg like FF e6 or the leaked E1 of Fugue) would just be a 1.25 so on so forth while again,other dmg can just hit as much with smthg like an S1 Planetary Rendezvous
The ceiling of Break is very low which is the "balancing" factor for its ease of access and low investment
You can minmax your crit dps,getting 2 more substat roll per relic and get like a 20% performance boost,but for break,minmax its relics can only give like a 10% increase if not less
For me,SB rn is just have too high numbers rather than being fundamentally broken,i treat it as a way to always have 1 half of MoC cleared because of how little it scales with vertical investment unlike crit dps
@hoangnguyen0721 True, there's definitely stat dilution with both - I gotta say it's kinda annoying that the floor for SB is also significantly lower than the other types too
As firefly main, I am utterly disgusted with superbreak. I really hope new meta will powercreep this archetype. 🥰
Now the only way to make old DPS characters keep-up is through relics and supports or get an E1 or E2 (if they have only good ones). Also note that newer DPSs have been getting much more catered support for them.
When the game started, it was to either hit really hard with hyper carry strategies and have the correct weakness with overall good generic support characters, wich was all around the core gameplay. Around Argenti's release we started getting characters more specific to a play style and each release of a 5 star harmony (including Harmony MC) dictated a meta change (from DoT teams, to debuffing teams, to Followup Teams and Supperbreak teams).
why pick E1 of an old dps if you can have a new one which will be better then the E1 old dps, get better supports and relics and on top of that endgame will be build arround them. Star rail just killed reruns, in genshin I did pull a lot of characters in rerun and I wanted to go for Dan hang IL on his current rerun but I realised he will be bad and never get better and as low I only got half of the penacony units and don´t have any sig LC I can´t efford going for cool old characters since they are barely useable
@@sakutaro3musik486 If you want to clear the endgame content easier, then that is the correct mindset, but there are cases that one simply enjoys combat with the characters or playstyle would prefer invest in those even if its not the optimal choice.
Fox wind lady
We already know how they can nerf superbreak without hampering other damage types too much, its already in the game for a few bosses, the biggest example is SAM who just can't be broken for half the fight.
There where you wrong. There two different types of super break and sam only counter one type. There firefly and boothill who put weaknesses and there rappa who don't care about weaknesses who sam don't counter. If they release more rappa type and even faster break then her then there no counter to super break. So good fuck luck lol 😆
@@Meckenn Weakness implant and weakness type ignore get around locked toughness bars.
@@Meckenndoesn't matter if the bar is locked, have you even fought SAM?
People who responded to this comment have 0 idea about how locked bar works.
If the bar is locked, you just can't reduce it, end of the deal. Not even rainbow toughness dmg or weakness implant can get around it.
For it to be locked it has to have crossed out weakness icons on top. If it has no icons then it is NOT locked, so it can be reduced like normal (albeit only by rainbow dmg or by implanting weakness).
@@Meckenn next time use your brain
Honestly they could do something fairly simple using a mechanic we already have in the game: give enemies a status that makes the resist/take less toughness damage but make it dispellable! This puts characters like luocha/pela back in the limelight and incentivizes making more characters/lightcones that include dispelling.
I don't understand why an easily accessible playstyle would be bad for a game, it's a single player game with no competition among players whatsoever. Giving more options to play and build characters is great for diversity. Also, if you want to make your classic DPS (say Jing Yuan) into a super breaker, you have to farm all the relics again, which some people might not want to do. Unfortunately, locking the toughness bar of opponents would stop SB from working altogether, same as Freeze in Genshin, so I hope they don't to that and instead use the approach you mentioned about encouraging the use of other archetypes/units instead of limiting their usage.
@@iNovak-HSR I doubt they will ever cuck super break as hard as freeze in Genshin. Unlike freeze which was a mechanic only accessible to Ice characters, break/super break is accessible to EVERY character; it's a core mechanic in the game that makes HSR into what it is. A permanent weakness lock would not only screw over break/super break, but also literally every other playstyle.
I do think though that they would instead cater more to newer archetypes in the future once they're done branching out with break/super break.
@@koko-hh2bq That's a great point that I missed, you're right that SB is accessible to pretty much every character. I just hope they stopped making the endgame content too beneficial for the current banner character, I mean, it's OK to make it favorable, but most of the time you are required to use that unit or archtype to clear.
The thing is though you don't really have to farm all over again. Break doesn't rely on damage element so you can use the pieces right off of another SB character and switch them back whenever you want. The only two stats you need are break effect and speed.
the problem is that the game will have more powercreep whenever they release easy accessible dmg which means older character become useless and this is bad for f2p and low spender
@sakutaro3musik486 how is it bad when you are literally getting the character for free? HTB is free which is the core of superbreak, gallagher is also free. So getting an op team with Firefly would require you to spend less than to get a team full of limited characters
There's a few issues I _have_ with this mechanic so let me just start with this : crit damage is essentially FREE damage. All you have to do is build crit rate/dmg, level your character up, attack the enemy and then, you're good to go. Don't even need to break them at all. There's no real worries about chasing specific pieces or leveling your talents or pretty much anything, you just do one thing, you hope your character has good base attack damage or, just use Robin cause she buffs it, and, that's it. It's easy.
Powercreep is a mistake
-HSR players
Bennett is a mistake
-genshin players
I don't think there's a problem with superbreak, they perform at the same level as any full synergy team would. There's no need to nerf it or change it, we just need to wait for the rest of playstyles to receive more supports.
My thoughts exactly
Yup, agreed. Feixiao and Adventurine are more OP than FF with a much higher ceiling.
Pretty much.
The main issue really imo is that ever since they introduced HMC all the characters and buffs that were released after are all centered around break effect or have some sort of connection to the mechanic which feels like they're really trying to force it onto us (even the Feixiao weekly boss takes forever unless you use break/weakness reducing teams)
about genshin's situation: i still think that bloom is different from break in hsr, while yes a lacking unit like blade can be carried by it, there are units who ACTUALLY use break effect, such as hmc, ruan mei, lingsha and finally the damage dealers - firefly, boothill and rappa, genshin doesn't have any hyperbloom carries, the only character who can be considered an actual bloom carry is nilou with her bountiful cores and yeah it is kinda similar to superbreak, even so i'd compare break to xianyun plunge because you need specific units (for example ruan mei in hsr and furina in genshin) and any melee character now can vape with huge numbers
more importantly about "powercreep" in genshin, neuvillette is good but his damage is technically similar to alhaitham's teams, his main strength is how easy he is to use, he can heal himself and work with most sub dpses (except for those who are reliant on normal attacks), but that's also his main weakness because specifically because of his easy usage i know a lot of people who became extremely bored with him after a month of playing with him, while arlecchino's damage ceiling is literally lower than hu tao's who came out back in 1.4 (with pretty similar builds it's 81k to 89k dps difference between arle and hu tao respectively, you can check it by using configs of their best teams on gcsim, for arle it's yelan-kazuha vape which is honestly very painful to play in practice, and for hu tao it's xianyun plunge), at the end of the day it doesn't matter because xiangling will always be stronger than any other unit and powercreeping her without making a unit who's 2 times better than neuvillette is pretty hard lmao. oh and navia is just yellow eula, but at least she synergizes with characters we currently have unlike eula who only has a single support and he sucks for specifically eula, so unironically her best team is hyperbloom
that guy also lying about monsters hp increased while dps check remains almost the same for last 2 years.
While it might be difficult to powercreep Xiangling in every way without having to raise the bar in abyss further, I think it's pretty easy to make "better" Xiangling in most way. The 2 obvious ways would be capitalizing some of the thing Xiangling is good at like pyro app, off field damage. Or, fixing the problem Xiangling has like the need of Bennett(if you want her to deal damage) or Energy problem.
Imagine Pyro version of Furina but buff atk instead of damage bonus. like combining Bennett and XIangling in 1.
* "Xiangling will always be stronger than any other unit" is quite a claim I think Lyney, Hu Tao and Arlecchino are stronger in term of DPS if we compare them in their best team. In AoE scenario with a lot of enemies in 1 wave, Xiangling might be stronger, but these Natlan abyss cycles mostly has 1-2 enemies, so those 3 are far stronger in the current abyss, imo.
If you said "she is better than any other pyro unit", I might mostly agree bc she has more just damage.
For me I really preferred when break was just a supplementary damage option rather than what we have now, having a break Asta, Luka, Xueyi or whatever felt fair as you had to properly calculate how much toughness DMG you had to deal to land that big break attack for some extra damage. Now you just spam attack in whatever way and get free damage, not to mention that damage types don't even matter anymore as everyone ignores toughness weakness for some reason.
For me the big problem is that Mihoyo is babyproofing the game way too much, the new characters, be it a sustain, support or dps, do way too much with way too little room for error or skill expression to the point that the game can almost play by itself unless you're purposefully handicapping yourself by using weaker characters.
Your points about supplementary damage is the point I was going for when talking about value over time & xueyi - it was a great early game option, and you had to actually think a little bit to use it. Now with superbreak on the other hand .... lmao
maybe they could add an enemy that immediatly move as he gets broken, disentivising breaking him, being immune to superbreak, but for someone like boothil he would still take the bleed damage proc instantly, wich would still be good
7:31 for imprisonment welt exists
This was a great video, Fl2ur. I don't think Super Break is at the point where we should be super concerned about it from a DMG performance perspective, but... I do see where you're coming from on how it could become an issue down the road. I believe right now the game is just flourishing itself out so players can build more team comps within the given archetypes. We aren't glued to 1-2 main teams per arch anymore, but now we have a mix & match variety in the event we didn't want to play XYZ. Of course, we still have the obvious "strongest comp for __", but you get my point. I'm excited to see where the rest of this year's meta is going to end up. That concept you mentioned about changing the buffs per archetype really piqued my interest though.
Hey Iyo, thanks for the comment and thoughts on the topic!
I do think there's avenues they have to pivot out of the break/fua meta we're in, just really hoping it's not something that would be annoying for the other damage types like I mentioned in the video. I've always been a fan of buffing to balance things, and temporary buffs for the end game content is the easiest way to do that.
Break is practically a dead stat before Super Break. No one use it outside of memeing.
I certainly don't see their relevancy before, and neither are the legions of guide videos.
I see Super Break as a way the dev try to bring Break back to relevancy.
Moral of the story is to use whatever kills the enemies whether it's Pure DMG, DOTS, and Break/Super Break
The problem I had with super break is that they added weakness implant along with it. The downside of break/superbreak is that you have to match enemy weakness types and can’t just overpower the enemy with raw power like you can with a crit dps. But when they introduced it they introduced HarmonyMC(for free) with a buff that means that anyone can do superbreak so you can just bring a normal dps and access superbreak and they introduced firefly who implants the weakness needed to access her superbreak so her enemy doesn’t need to be fire weak in order for her to deal her super break.
They introduced a very powerful mechanic with a very powerful downside to match but then immediately nullified the downside. Maybe the downside is too great without some weakness ignore but it feels like it removes some team building strategy if you can bring a superbreak team to any fight regardless of the weaknesses.
> me over here just chilling with my super break team with a half-dozen eidolons...
Nobody asked tho
Cant wait for next Year around this Time and you put out a Video titled "Summon was a Mistake". Once 3.0 Drops we will get a differend Playstyle which got all the Love. Acheron was the Baseline for 2.x and i am sure that the first big 3.x DPS will be more broken to set the new Baseline for all upcoming 3.x Main DPS Characters.
If summons are as easy to get value out of as superbreak is, maybe lmao. I'm sure we're going to move away from superbreak once those are in the game as the main super broken damage niche, but I don't think we'll ever move past it being the easiest to access considering it's requirements are just breaking the enemy.
That's my main issue, the damage is way too high for how easy it is to use, and as a result we're going to end up with something like summons potentially having to be stronger than superbreak is, and the game being scaled around that. Not particularly interested for the end of 3.x when we have to fight a 5 million HP enemy, further invalidating old characters and damage types.
@@fl2ur tbh i get the Feeling youre seeing this way too simple "Just breaking the Enemy" is the same as "Just killing the Enemy" which you do with every other Hypercarry. Building a Firefly is as simple as Building an Acheron or Building a Feixiao. Crit% + Crit Dmg thats All.
And of course you will have a way harder Time in the Future with older Units. In the End this is a Gacha Game and Hoyo wanna make Money with it. Why would any 1.0 Player care for new Units when they just could E6 Seele and then never have to pull again for anyone? Powercreep is and will always be a main Topic in this Kind of Game and unless you invest in Eidolons or new Suports i really doubt you can still 3* MoC or AS with a full E0 Boothill or Firefly Team in a Year from now on. This is how Gachas work and either people accept this or quit the Game.
@DantoriusD Tbh I don't think that comparison is fair - breaking the enemy is always going to be an easier solution than "just kill them through it" because toughness bars are most likely always going to have lower "hp" than the actual enemies hp bar on top of weakness implant & ignore being things in the game.
I just tested it against MoC11 Kafka - running FF/hmc/ruan/fu xuan kafka got broken after using HMC skill once and FF's skill twice. With how fast FF is going, those two skills happened very quickly after each other. The second FF skill took her from 98% HP down to 57%.
On the other hand, a feixiao team of qpq gallagher/march/robin/feixiao didn't break kafka(which isnt surprising, but its another "benefit" of break lost by other archetypes), and it took two full feixiao *ults* to deal the same amount of damage.
Idk, I really don't feel like you can say that's even remotely similar.
@@fl2ur so your taking Kafka as comparison. A Enemy that is Imaginary+ Fire (due to implant) weak. You needed 2 Firefly Skills to break her and im guessing 2 to bring her first Bar down. After that your dealing like 0 dmg for 2 Turns cause shes out of her Ult Form. So in short you have massive Burst dmg but after that lacking so much dmg.
And whats with Sam as Enemy? He Hardcounters Break as a whole since he starts with 0 Weakness and cant even implanted. With 0 toughness dmg you cant do anything on him for quite some time.
Yes break is strong but already has lots of Downsides which we already see on Every Boss namely phase changes. Where enemys regain there full toughness again. Or you have some Hyperspeed Enemy like Hooley who is so fast that he recovers from Break even with the Delay from FF and HMC. If you cant Kill the Enemy while he is broken you might have a Big Problem and Firefly is super limited in her Turns. If she needs 3 Skills from her Ult to Break the Enemy she has only 1 left to actually dealing dmg.
Meanwhile my Acheron couldnt care less about weakness and about the Spd. she even handles Kafka pretty well who comes with Lightning Resistance but is still able to Deal 70% of her Lofe with her Ult.
And when i look at prydwens list for current MoC 12 then Feixiao already has a lower cycle count as FF
@DantoriusD The damage was in reference to how easy it was to do. Breaking the enemy to deal 41% of her health bar with a skill is a lot different than burning two full feixiao ults. Even worse, ruan's ult wasn't even active on the FF team, nor did i have gallagher/lingsha for their break damage bonuses & toughness break - meaning it would actually be more if I wasnt being lazy with ruan or brought the proper sustain.
There's no nuance or skill, nor is there the aspect of planning your ult rotation and managing energy/etc to a break team. Pressing skill 3 times to deal that much damage is always going to be easier than everything that every other team has to do. It's easy to play, not hard to build for, but does stupid damage despite both of those things.
I feel like we're kinda arguing two different things here and I guess that's my fault for bringing damage into it, so my bad there. Hopefully this explains my point better.
(Not related to Super Break or the video in particular)Around game launch, I played till the prologue & landed in Belobog, cudn't play for a long time since then. Returned in April this year & completed all story, also recently started an alt & by the time I came to Belobog, I thought in my mind - damn, this game is a bit of a disappointment.
The drastic increase in new boss stats(Hoolay can take about 8 turns(actions) in a row) & to mitigate it, newer units with high multipliers, SB dmg, self-implant, toughness reduction, Res-Pen & Ignore Def will become common that there will be no difference b/w PvP games meta & HSR meta(10-20 units are used everywhere).
Personally, I wud like them to do direct buffs & balances to units bcoz relics & spports can only help u so much if ur kit or multipliers aren't worth it.
I will play the game bcoz I like the story & chars(want to see the future story), but gameplay wise the game's losing charm.
(Just to be clear I did finish MoC though not 36* bcoz no FF or premium FuA units)
I started playing HSR during 2.3 so I'm relatively a new player, I feel like super break is extremely new player friendly, basically got the whole FF super break team from the get go by only pulling e0s0 FF and e0s0 Ruan mei, and I was able to blow pass early game with no problem and really help me catch up and be able to enjoy new patch update from 2.5 onwards. A lot of older players just don't think about how long it take for newer players to catch up to current content, and I think super break is the best option for newer players to access reliable damage and still allows there to be room for improvement when facing more end game content. If newer players can only rely on break from lv1-20 crutch, then we will basically need to compete with a year worth of gear grinding for a good crit dps set to realistically face any end game content.
I understand that it is quite unfair for older players to see their favorite units be power crept with basically just one stats, but watching my other friend that also joined HSR 2 months later with only crit dps I think it is a good thing that superbreak is so accessible.
the main reason why it feels stronger imo is because of them focusing on those in the majority of content. exo toughness adds another layer of that instance of dmg. apocalyptic shadow takes reduced dmg untell broken, so breaking faster gives more dmg. and more things like this. im fairly sure that every mode in the last little bit has had some case of increasing break in some way. and the thing that adds even more into this is break is considered a reward for understanding the content in some way. so when we start getting away from things that stop give some kind of bonus towards it, ive personally understand it as its not that strong over proper builds because it has a barrier of even attempting to get damage out.
as to how it looks long term, i think when players have multi eidolons(which considering its a gacha i dont expect people to even have E1) the scaling goes in favor away from break. break just fundamentally just acts as a max base line for 90%+ of characters kits because toughness breaking is a flat stat that rarely changes between buffs/eidolons.
So i don’t think super break is a problem. The problem is htb. He just make the entire super break broken just because he gives both break effect and increase the super break he provides without much of a trade off. Currently with super break enablers they will get compared to htb who gives 160% (assuming you are against one enemy) super break damage. If he just provided break effect and the enable of super break it wouldn’t be as dominant as it is but still be powerful. They also kinda pigeon hold themselves with htb because now any super break enabler that a 5 star will be compared to him because how powerful he is.
This. Play a Firefly team without Harmony TB and you'll realize that she's solid but pretty mid damage dealer.
FF can lock something down on her own and do a bit of extra damage when breaking, but she's not able to pull those real magical numbers without HTB enabling super-break.
Also, unless something like Nihility TB causes DoTs to crit, this is the de-facto version of Trailblazer and there's no reason to ever swap away from it, it's so strong.
@@Tonbizzle so for nihility there another way to make them strong without enabling dots to crit. Enable dots to heal and regen energy. Now is that as strong as the super break. Probably if tb also applies dots given the Kafka’s team would then have 3 dots going off (4 to 5 dots depending on the team you use and if you break) or just make him do something no nihility have done before be able to freeze without breaking (this also will depend on some things)
@@Tonbizzle New TB will probably work well with the summon meta which will be OP after 3.x so HTB will probably move on for most people.
@@sphong0610 There's no superbreak enabler replacement, so I doubt it.
Bro suddenly realized meta exists. So were DHIL, Jing Liu and all of these characters meta, pushing the damage numbers up. It’s not super break, Literally every subsequent released unit broke the damage numbers. Adventurine is supposed to be a shielder, yet his follow ups can blast numbers up to a million with his signature lc. Super break scales off of break effect, and I don’t know how familiar you are with basic break scaling but some weakness breaks deal more than others. Super break is to compensate for that exact issue. Make all types of weakness break viable and give characters a damage source that can compete with follow up teams. Is it a bandaid solution? Maybe, they could have played into basic break scaling more but it is how games work. Sometimes the simple solution works best and in that regard it enables other characters simply because every unit is capable of breaking enemy toughness. Not every unit is capable of using follow up sets. I believe super break is pretty good it helps getting older units more usage and makes them somewhat viable in modern endgame. Compared super break damage numbers are still much smaller than what some follow up teams are capable of pressing.
Especially your critrate solution with the 2nd crit from the cap is basically what super break is. I agree that the early game landscape is not what it used to be, that the game has gotten much easier after unlocking harmony mc but that’s because you get harmony mc a unit released in 2.x in patches for 1.x to fix the early game issue make harmony mc available in penacony. All the other issues you mentioned seemed more like a personal grudge against break effect as a whole which makes no sense to me. It’s another variable on the board and allows more team comps to happen and be used and basically incentivizes exactly that what you say it doesn’t. Now you see teams like feixiao super break, super blade and so on. I like that, you’re not limited to one and only one value anymore and can make break rolls viable while the dedicated units still outperform the other units. I can’t play my firefly as a follow up character but they added lingsha and she basically can scale with follow up, just not as good as dedicated follow up units.
"Dedicated units still perform better" yea perform better than everyone else
Perform better than every other archtype yes
@@shutup1037 If super break is such a big issue why do moc 2.5 usage rates not reflect that? Top of the pack is Feixiao and other follow up units? Even after the lingsha banner Superbreak units were clearing moc slower than the current follow up meta. Especially considering Feixiao's high usage rate,, follow up cleared moc in roughly 6 cycles. While all super break characters (aside from lingsha) were 6.5 or higher. You can find the data online, do some research - It really shouldn't be that hard.
Rappa hitting around 1.4 million E0S1 is just nuts... Fugue/Tingyun is only going to make Superbreak even crazier
It's only a matter of time when they will put another bossfight/enemy types who would lock their toughness bars.
And is still hard to build a Break DPS, same as other DPS units when you need specific stats for it, like Speed and Break effect only.
Actually Glad they added Superbreak mechanic into the game.
Coz before, Rolling into Break Effect is basically a Dead Stat when you can only proc it ONCE after specifically making that character deal the final toughness blow.
There were many times that your sustains would take away those breaks and deal wasted mediocre damage.
On top of Enemies just waking up immediately after being weakness broken, coz the action delay is stupidly low/negligible....unless you put Ruan Mei in those teams.
BE Sushang, while she can deal tons of damage WHEN she does the breaking....What then? Her entire kit is solely reliant on enemies in their broken state but her scalings are still Atk%,
And you can only proc Break DMG once per Initial Breaks....not when they are in their broken state.
So Superbreak is what's basically fixing this dead stat to begin with.
And with the exo toughness getting added, you can have 2x the Break DOTs, delays and talent procs that rely on breaking enemies like Himeko.
Can’t wait for super break to end up like hyper bloom in genshin
?
Did Hyperbloom die or something? I still run it in Spiral Abyss
Ngl the lamest thing about superbreak, is EVERY NEW CHAR has been catored towards that.....
So why are you not pulling for them? Why complain?
Feixiao definitely wasn't catered toward superbreak
since its introduction, i think its 2.1 the only superbreak characater introduced where boothill(that prefers not using superbreak so idk if it counts), firefly rappa, lingsha and fugue. while we got acheron aventurine, robin, jade, yunli, jiaoqiu, feixiao and sunday. more characters have been catered towards fua than superbreak
You mean like 80% of 1.0 Characters were Crit Hypercarry DPS? If you already complaining wait till 3.0 bc im pretty sure the 3.x Cycle will also favour 2 differend Playstyles (Summon+ maybe Dot??) and in 1 Year people complaining about the 7th new Summon DPS.
Ah yes, my favorite superbreak characters: Jade, Yunli, Jiaoqiu, Feixiao, and who could forget the paramount Break reruns with Acheron and Aventurine?
6:17 but this is the game mechanic from the very start no? until there's a unit that can ignore toughness bar, which is basically has default def / res ignore, breaking your enemy is crucial even for non break teams cause it amplifies damage output
We've already seen them "nerf" Superbreak by adding more toughness bar to Hoolay but they can really only go so far with that or non SB teams will be the only things that cant break bosses.
8:14 Adding chance to mechanics sounds good on paper but in practice it feels bad (think YanKINGs FU or Qingque skill). It will just feel bad at the end of the day if you're at that point and cause frustration. Maybe something like every time you break an enemy they get more toughness bar added. That could also get out of hand so I'm not sure
My hot take would be that they buff old MC Paths (since everyone has them) and try and make it a meaningful choice to use HMC over say DMC or PMC. They will never do this though.
@vash3100 I've always been a fan of buffs because it can bring things back into relevance, but yeah unfortunately not something they're likely to do.
Big toughness bar + insane speed so he recovers fast.
Omly for Super Break tho. Because increasing Hoolay's bar made Boothill do even more damage against him
@@mauriciorosademoraes9209 No, it didn't. Boothill has a limit on how much the Talent's Break DMG can scale with Toughness (16 times the BA's Toughness Reduction = 10 × 16 = 160). Hoolay has 240 Toughness, already past Boothill's max cap. Increasing the Toughness Bar will only make Boothill (and any other Break DPS) take longer to Break (and Breaking the Bar itself doesn't give Boothill any exclusive advantage, he'll deal as much Damage as any Break character with the same amount of BE as him).
That's why Exo-Toughness is so valuable: the higher the Toughness Bar, the higher the Break DMG, and Exo-Toughness deals the same Break DMG as regular Toughness, being half the size. If enemies start to have 280+ Toughness, Breaking a Bar will deal more damage than Boothill's Talent (His Talent considers 160 Toughness to cause 170% Break DMG, so it causes Break DMG up the equivalent to 272 Toughness).
@@vitorjjgameplays5786 But i'm saying normal break not Boothill's break.
7:02 There are units that can apply break debuffs without breaking, since you bring up imprisoned we already have Welt for that.
This kind of reminds me of every time a character comes out, and regardless of what their role is, people try and make them a dps, even if they're a healer.
But in this case, super break is actually Good in that respect. So I see where your coming from.
But Im sure the Meta will shift constantly to different things / players will get bored of Super Break. New players to games like this will always have a lot on their plate once a good amount of time has passed.
Great Video!
I get what you mean about break affecting new players. Since I started this game just before Boothill came out, he was my first limited character. Cause of that, my only experience the entire game was based on breaking everything, So when I got to endgame and I had to actually learn how to build other types of characters, (i got yunli and she was built terribly for a while lmao)
On top of that it turns out I went the entire game on blue relics with very little actual stats, and the fact the I literally deleted every boss in the story like that, yeah break is definitely strong lmao.
Very curious how they will change that in the future.
They wont. They just abandon the Meta and move to a differend Playstyle. Fugue will be the Last Superbreak Character so we have 8 dedicated FUA and 8 dedicated Break Character. Now its Time for Summon and a 2nd Playstyle. And i bet this is the Scheme they will use for every Patch Cycle. Every Major Update will favour 2 Gameplay Styles that will be focussed on and get all the love until the next Update comes out.
Superbreak doesn't need a solution. Superbreak was fixing an inherent flaw with break teams (you get one instance of damage across an entire team), but other teams don't have similar issues, all they need is adjusted multipliers to do similar damage.
At this stage it's basically the only team in the game along with follow-up that is going to have a full limited 5 star roster so the other teams are going to catch up anyway. Give it like two patches before everyone is complaining that they have to pull summon units.
I've found that super break has an entirely different health bar to normal with the toughness bar. It's no longer how much damage you can do, but how much toughness damage you can do. I recon just adding more toughness so that breaks take longer rather than just increasing hp would help balance things out. It basically becomes a different HP bar.
i never used harmony mc until i could properly build them like i have just finished the 2.3 story quest and i spent a while building my main characters i had on my team
My main issue with break meta in general is something you covered, in that it's WAY too easy. In a turn based game that's also *supposed* to be strategy based, break meta just makes players turn on autoplay mode and just skip through every single bit of content the game has to offer. Firefly's mechanics, for example, is just "spam skill to win". This is NOT a good thing. I play games to play them. Not to have the game play itself.
I built my E2 Natasha for Break Effect because of curiosity/insanity, and now she manages to deal 204k in Super Break alone in correct circumstances
Natasha.
This video convinced me to go all in on Superbreak characters seeing as it’s hard to nerf 😮
The best option would be to do actual regular balance patches which do not just nerf but nerf/buff to keep characters relevant and sell new characters not for clear fomo but for design and playstyle.
your playing a gacha game ... that thought is complete heresy
Honestly I think what genshin did in fontaine to deal with the aftermath of sumeru and dendro was a pretty good way of going about it. Outside of neuvilette being him the other units that got released in fontaine had kits that basically gave them power to rival dendro and its reactions also units working off of "forgotten" mechanics was a cool thing to see. Navia using crystalize to amplify her own damage, lynel being a mono pyro specialist even freminet who isn't good due to the virtue of being a 4* dps still did the same thing with shattering frozen enemies. I think if hsr made other archetypes better via release of x y z or whatever and putting them on par with superbreak and then just incentivizing different teams because of a certain enemy design would be the way to go. If everything is broken nothing is broken and it doesnt feel awful for the player.
'Hot Take' Retorts to each solution-
Unbreakable Phase until Condition Met: A standard Crit Hypercarry Team/DoT Team can get around this
Shields: DoT Teams can bypass this with little to no issue, can also dispel the Buff via Pela & Lightcones that give this effect/future units that do so
ALTERNATIVELY.... STOP Caring about 0 to 1 Cycle Clears for MoC/PF/ApocSha
Future Imprison Scaling DPS - I'm fairly positive we:
1) Have Welt, who can already do so with his Ult, among other methods.
2) If this future dropped, chances are it'll be done via their Skill or some sort of Effect they can inflict on the enemy; hence building EHR anew in order to consistently apply this condition & still deal increased Damage. They probably would get a similar Atk% or Imaginary Dmg% Bonus based on EHR just like how Black Swan did in her Kit, up to 120% or maybe even a bit higher.
Toughness Bar/Shield mechanics would actually make the endgame very intricate & it wouldn't deviate/make content harder unless you as a Player were woefully unprepared. By that time, since we're nearing 3.0, unless you either: Started the Game recently, or have been away for 1+ Years like myself; chances are you shouldn't have much issue with these mechanics if they come to light. Especially with the hypothetical future Unit that one will WILL come. I quite frankly, love that theoretical idea of scaling increased dmg% based on enemies being imprisoned.
Now for the end of the video you mentioned new enemies that would counter/interact with those mechanics like Super Break & whatnot. That could be cool, something like that Mage Fragmented Enemy that says: Counter Atk when you as a player use a Skill, or use Basic Attack, or Attack her specifically. THAT'S cool! Since it'll make you build around either: "alright, if I wanna use my mechanic that'll get countered, I also need to make sure I can either outheal the dmg dealt back to me, or outright massacre in 1 to 2 big Hits", or, build a different team to avoid getting countered. Which is fine, but then will also introduce the issue of some players, new & old, not having a wide enough roster to deal with that due to either Vertical or Linear account/team building.
I think that Super Break is not a problem at all, like u said it is very strong feature but u arent really forced to use it if u don't want too. There is people i know who play HSR only for story and for collecting character they like, they don't care about the end game content so for them using super break just to speed run any game content is a blessing. As for myself i do sometimes just wanna speed run end game content myself and end up using super break but sometimes i feel like using FUA or DOT or anything else.
I am surprised that you literally read my thoughts word to word from 1:13 to 1:32 (except you could also add Kinich and Mualani there)
superbreak blade is good cause his multipliers are horrendous and superbreak doesnt rely on multipliers plus he is sp positive and more actions on him make him deal more damage
im still waiting for a break character that scales from Defense. i have good def artifact with a high break rolls lol
As someone who just started the game and is definitely nowhere close to endgame mechanics, I... thought superbreak was odd at first, but I do kind of enjoy how it makes you think ahead. Because I have to not only manage the upkeep of the Trailblazer's ultimate to be ready in time, but also take care to break the enemy at the right time so all my characters actually get a turn to deal their superbreak damage. If I break the enemy just before its own turn, its just going to regenerate the shield and all the rounds leading up to it are wasted.
I think a good mechanic could have been that whenever you deal super break damage, some of their toughness bar "recharges" and once it fills up, they aren't broken anymore. This would make it so you have to break them all over again, and would limit how much damage you could deal per down and it would emphasize when to use certain skills and ults, and how well did you build your whole team for SB not just your DPS and "oh, hey you have HMC and Ruan Mei, here's a billion free damage"
@dinocharlie1 That's a unique idea, though it would probably mess with the new exo toughness mechanic. Maybe something like "dealing a certain number of break damage hits fully refills the bar" and that way you have to manage a second "timer" of sorts apart from the enemies' speed.
Ex, you wouldn't want to use a ruan mei basic attack to hit the weakness broken enemy because that would use one hit - so you'd have to attack a different monster or skill instead
I really dont understand what everyone means with this "free dmg" bs.. so is feixiao not free dmg? You literally only need Robin and Feixiao and you are gonna deal ridiculous dmg, without even needing to break enemies. So how is it that break is "free dmg" and bad for the game but feixiao is fine?
@@zzzy1934Literally everyone on a SB team deals damage even their healers how is it not "free"? A healer which typically wouldve done a poopoo 2k basic now deals 150k cuz why not
@Alsace9 ok? Fua team also does that with Robin and Aventurine, and btw there is no basic that does 150k unless you break with that basic or if its gallagher eba. Fua team is way more op than break team is and people for some reason dont want to talk about that
They could maybe create a game mode wherein enemies do not have toughness bar... or wherein enemies are resistant from super break damage. For me, I do not actually hate it when bosses have super high HP as long as there is no cycle or time limit. I would enjoy a good long boss fight with challenging mechanics.
That would definitely be an interesting solution - and I fully agree about the time limit. If MoC didn't have a cycle requirement and Apoc didnt have a threshold of points then challenging fights would be good. Unfortunately hoyo is pretty adverse to challenging their players so idk if we'll ever get stuff like that.
Welcome back hyperbloom
I don't hate super break because I don't understand it. I was hoping this video would explain what super break is but no problem it's something I assumed on my own
Pretty new to hsr. I can tell you that super break is ok but I still struggle with end game. 😢 it true my other crit characters cannot get me as far. But I am glad they have super break also.
I appreciate the newer player perspective! Most of my info comes from an alternate account so it's nice to hear a fresh player's POV
As someone who really likes to play Superbreak, valid points. I feel like they could nerf super break by adding enemies who take less damage while weakness broken, kinda like with memory zone memes and their safe guard. Those enemies encourage you to break them, so why not introduce enemies who encourage you not to break them. This could still affect other playstyles, but it is a way to fix it.
I won't be surprised if suddenly there is a boss that cannot be broken (no break bar). Or a boss with insanity modifier that unlock something, additional stat or skill, after their break bar got broken. Lemme know if there is already one, I haven't played after finishing the penacony arc.
Increasing Mobs Max HP is what i hate but i love in the same time. What i love is this keep player enjoy endgame contents but what i hate is it some team like DOT lost the ability to full clear like they used to be because Hoyoverse left it behind. I saw a video about a person crying while attempting current MOC 12 for more than an hour using DOT and said "My Dot team used to full clear MOC but not anymore"
really solid discussion points
The game refuses to give me break and dot characters when i was first played the game, so I just stick with crit rate/dmg characters to the point I only pull for them now. Im invested in crit and the FuA playstyle.
I remember the break rope qingque era like it was yesterday
i dont really have a problem with superbreak specifically, its just that any new meta is kinda needed to clear late game content. i still dont fully clear endgame content because i cant. i have an ok hypercarry jingliu team and am actively building a fua team (started doing that with getting feixiao last patch). back when fua was new i actually didnt like it cause that meant my jingliu was bad for new moc cause the buffs helped fua and not my current team. i was so reluctunt to switch archetype that i completly skipped the whole dot meta and stayed on my jingliu hypercarry team that whole period (it was mostly out of spite but also was becuase i didnt wanna learn a whole new archetype and way of playing the game). but when topaz released i was still a bit reluctant to get the start of fua cause i had dhil that i could work on instead of pulling, i decided to get her cause, after dot, fua would be the new meta and it was (i also pulled her cause thighs but lets ignore that lol). idk where im going with this but i just feel like as a f2p ill always struggle to clear shit without all the new toys hoyo releases
im reading over this wall of text and it comes off as a bit whiny so to whoever felt like reading this im sorry xd
5:52 I disagree, Superbreak early game doesn't provide that much value considering superbreak (and break) scales on ally lvl, and with the lack of BE and asides from HMC break supports early on would probably balance the scale atleast early game
You can disagree but do you have experience? I do! I started a week before Firefly came out, and the moment they gave me Harmony MC when I was in the middle of the story everything became an absolute breeze (from around after Belubog), I was freaking out going ??? only began to run into problems when I came to penacony and got my ass handed to me by some monsters, the assasin boss, and the Aventurine salesman monkey.
@Rainbowsaur Honestly thats just because the game itself at those points is super easy, especially the main story
The overworld game's difficulty picks up at Penacony which is accurate
cant wait for crit ex
(please I want bigger numbers)
superbreak, the hyperbloom of starrail...commented this before finishing the video lmao
In 3.x they will make locked-element enemies to counter superbreak 💀
Meanwhile there’s yet a (sensical) way to counter Fua
Behold, Fua and CEO of Fua Robin 🗣️
hsr powercreep feels like it increases enemy hp with every big release with acheron having probably the biggest ceiling and biggest enemy hp increase in 1 patch and all they have to do is make tons of different niches like with servants and eventually drop support for them to make it even more annoying to stay caught up and the thing with genshin i realize its so much easier without constant double banners of new characters and a set of elements that wont change until many years later making its powercreep feel tame(all we have to look at is inazuma to penacony) and feeling like you can stay caught up plus with genshin buffing every reaction besides the real strong ones and geo(rip geo) HSR honestly is more generous because it needs to be but with what little extra it gives not even enough for another pity in trade for constant double banners it feels like a massive downside
Imprisonment is funny since welts part of the standard banner and his ult applies Imprisonment even without breaking a enemy wich is y I still use him that and iv got his light cones and sigh his e5
What I don’t like about super break is that you HAVE to have ONE specific character in your party in order to utilize it. I like having choices and using different team comps, so having an entire play style/mechanic revolve around ONE character is just stupid.
I just came back to game after 6 months i just completely ignore the mechanic my seele still destroys everything tbh so i didnt even notice
I don't really feel that Super Break is a problem.
Yes, it's easier to build a character for Super Break than it is for Crit DMG, just like DoT is mainly just ATK and SPD. Characters like Firefly also scale off ATK so you have an incentive to build at least 3 stats.
Super Break is not inherently better than CRIT either. Break teams feel strong because we had a perfect Super Break engine since the very beginning (HMC/Ruan Mei/DPS), but compare the Super Break team to a Feixiao team (another perfect team) and you get similar results - In fact Follow-Up is considered the strongest archetype right now. Not to mention Acheron's team which will achieve an even higher status when we get a second best-in-slot Nihility for her.
When it comes to early game, I don't think breaking enemies is less valid than the "proper mechanics" of hitting things as hard as you can with your hypercarry. I do believe that the universal Toughness reduction that our Super Break DPS have trivializes the challenge of Break too much.
The idea of making content catered to certain playstyles... Isn't that in the game already?
I do wish they expanded into the (regular) Break archetype instead of forcing SB as the only viable alternative, but Super Break can coexist with other playstyles without any issue.
and imo we already had the most annoying enemy mechanic ingame, it was Gepards shield that buffs absolute dmg immunity to them so you have to hit them multiple times with what ever you got until they receive dmg again
The worst effect of super break is the hp inflation. Originally the hp inflation was already pretty bad but with superbreak increasing the dmg ceiling so much the bosses eventually just become a dmg sponge that is tedious to fight rather than challenging. This wouldn’t be as bad if there was no time limit but there is. I think instead of increasing hp they should add a mechanic where certain enemies have a toughness dmg resistance which would make it harder for superbreak to achieve the window of dmg during weakness broken state but not make break completely useless
Im not complaining dude
Tbh, if I had to think about it, as someone who enjoys mostly the break mechanic, I feel like superbreak was a way for Hoyo to say "look, we increased the enemies' HP in 2.1 because 95% of the playerbase got Acheron and she's broken af because reasons, but for the newer players or the Acheronless people we've got you with that free enabler". Like what you mentioned with Genshin and Hoolay but, do people forget the Aventurine boss & the Acheron situation was the first coming of the actual "powercreep" ? We always got stat inflation and superbreak is a cause of this but... not only superbreak, just the numbers that the newest shiny toy lands. Like man, I know this MOC is suited for Rappa, but an comically underinvested Rappa (I stole Boothill's relics and just started doing her traces on what... Friday ?) doing 700k screenshot damage at the end of one of her turns is just crazy. As you said, the multipliers are just getting bigger atp and they're increasing HP.
I also don't agree that you can just use any dps with their crit build and you're good to go. What makes Himeko in superbreak teams relevant is that she wants to break enemies anyway. What makes Xueyi in superbreak teams relevant is that she wants to deal toughness damage & she also wants break effect for her own damage scaling (btw, break subs on Xueyi are least important than crit subs in any cases, so people who would take the 25% break relic over the double crit one would lose damage in the end ironically). What makes Luka in superbreak teams relevant is the high power of the Physical break and being able to reproc his DoT. Still, are people using Clara with superbreak or units like JY or Yunli with high toughness depletion ? No because there still are broken ass harmonies and nihilities that scale better with them. All of this to say, while I agree superbreak is part of the problem it is not THE problem. The problem is more that powercreep is getting quicker. At least the new supps make old units still relevant if you pull for them (cough Hook who 4 cycles Hoolay cough), which is a good thing, and let's be honest Himeko without superbreak wouldn't see any usage out of PF.
I also feel like people that are asking for a 2nd superbreak enabler / Ruan Mei don't realise that first if they do that they'll need to actually powercreep the harmony units that are already having these roles (so break would be actually even more busted lol) and that they can't do that for their own fucking profit because running two break teams = adios weakness matching. If they gave us the option to bruteforce content regardless of what weakness it has, just pull the characters that you need for those teams and your favorites, and what's the point of spending, unless yeah the rerun schedule sucks.
I feel like superbreak at its core is fine, it also lacks multipliers compared to other types of DPS who could struggle more to build the right stats - break was a mechanic they wanted to implement because it forces you to use the right elements but the way it was implemented didn't make it worth it. The Break DPSes need to be able to "bruteforce" any weakness because otherwise they do 2 dmg (3 on a good day) and it's their caveat, which is fine at least they HAVE a strong caveat (I'm sorry but Feixiao in that sense.... her caveat being that yeah she needs allies that attack a lot, yeah yippee those exist as f2p friendly units).
What isn't fine is when all of your fucking content is geared towards break. The new MOC ? Exo toughness so you want to use break dpses (obv for Rappa). AS ? You need ontype characters... Or you can bruteforce with break chars. PF ? Gets break orieted buffs, ofc you can emulate the breaks with the buffs but it's like DoT PF - you really want to use the mechanic to make your life easier.
I enjoy using Boothill and lately also Rappa in endgame content (Firefly feels "too easy" to me and I quite love superbreak Himeko, but I can't be too harsh with her because she's a really beginner friendly dps, unlike the Galaxy Rangers that take more understanding of the game's mechanics to really maximise their potential), so I obv can't criticize break too much, I like superbreak and it's fun but I feel like it's just too shilled for content nowadays. But as we near 3.x I feel like it's going to change, Break will stay strong but less shilled and buffs help those units to shine too.
TL;DR : They wanted to make break feel relevant and they pushed it too far into the spotlight, people are angry because they feel pressured into using superbreak, but it's really the same as the 1.x hypercarry/dot propaganda where you'd feel fucking bad and lacking whenever you didn't have a Kafka for that juicy DoT bonuses over and over again. The difference is now they make you feel like f2p units can unblock you so you're more tempted to commit to the meta, after all it's a f2p unit, so you can build them right (no because it costs resources which are usually even worse to get than jades) ? As every meta though it's going to change, and be less in the spotlight at one point, just a regular meta. Break is a meta like other metas like DoT that are annoying mainly because Hoyo keeps shilling them, which is hella annoying I agree, but there are downsides to break people don't see usually - less multipliers, more difficult to minmax like DoT for relics (you do want only two substats but you do want only those to roll so good luck minmaxing you're gonna roll more pieces statistically), dependance on the enemies' toughness bar (fast recoveries, covering the toughness bars are two of the worst things for break dpses).
I'll say this as I said how to solve this issue which is similar to Genshin's stagnation in terms of combat and playstyle, ADD NEW PATHS. HSR can add new roles through new Paths and it still won't ruin the immersion or lore of the game. HSR can literally open up Elation as a new playable path characters and be chaotic about it as how it is in lore. In terms of gameplay, Elation can something RNG like Qingque, but instead of doing damage you roll for a random buff(s), as for Ult, the character can specifically select the buff instead of randomly rolling for it. Something not Elation character can be someone like summoning a mini unit and now there's 5 total units on the field (battle), but the mini unit dies when the actual summoner character dies. To make it more interesting, the mini unit can't be summoned once it dies, so it acts as another important teammate rather than just possible meatshield. All in all, HSR has tons of ideas they can just implement for developing new characters. I forgot to mention that they can add new elements so it adds variety. Superbreak right now is heavily favored because of how easy it is to build on characters that favors from it. I only hope that they stop with the superbreak characters and start adding unique ideas.
I run a
lingsha
Fxiaixo
(Shield) Trailblazer and a hunt march 7th and I'm doing ok
Don't worry in 3.X the new metas are gonna be even stronger and the difficulty in the endgame is gonna increase.
So superbreak is gonna fall off relative to how it is right now.
I feel like they could do what crk did with crème brûlée, they nerfed his main dmg factor, as well they build bosses around certain characters
I never got Ruan Mei or Firefly. Now DoT and Jingliu are basically dead in the ditch and the last few months have been... a struggle. I kinda don't see Hoyo leaning away from gearing the endgame towards Superbreak in the foreseeable future either. Glad I'm not the only one who is critical of this stuff
i feel like for break units, superbreak was necessary to give them more damage uptime. however, because break slows down the enemy or disables the attack, with the way a lot of break units (ex. ruan mei, boothill) delay the enemy, break makes the game feel a lot less... turn based. i like the fua style a lot more because it feels so much more strategic with how you attack enemies and counter their attacks, and i don't get the same kind of feeling from break. i mainly pull for characters that i like and i have boothill + ruan mei and intend to get fugue, but i'll probably be avoiding break if i can because it's just not fun.
Definitely agree with your points - if SB strictly was the extra damage added on top(like a double crit would be that I mentioned in the MoC section), it wouldn't be that bad. It's when you look at everything break does on top of just the damage that it becomes a bigger issue.
This is why I have a like 300 spd hoolay in my MOC rn. Without robin,adventurine or even yunli & blade to just slow play it it was a big pain. Glad to see someone talking about this cause oh boy genshin abyss inflation was crazy
i hope they intruduce enemys that lock up their break bar but take double dmg during that time
Interesting cuz Sunday E6 can make Crit rate over cap turn into Crit dmg to a 1:2 rate
Something about superbreak that you didn't mention is that, when using superbreak, you're also breaking very quickly. What this means is that the enemy has their turn delayed and, if you're using Ruan Mei, they get their turn delayed even more. So not only does superbreak do a ton of damage, it's also incredibly safe, as the enemy doesn't have many chances to do a ton of damage back to you.
This entire video is why I don't play meta and just focus on characters I like. I almost never optimize my teams. When I stopped playing Genshin just before Fontaine, I still had Noelle on my team despite having a fully built Zhongli and Itto. Currently in HSR, I have a team built around Pela. I play waifu over meta.
Break including Superbreak can be Hard Countered if they released more enemies with Toughness lock (Though beyond more enemies with Toughness lock, I don't see them releasing enemies that can give all enemies Toughness lock or mechanics in MOC PF or AS with Toughness lock for that entire endgame cycle due to the Popularity of Firefly, Though they could also Release more Hoolay styled enemies that are super fast and maybe also give them Delay resistance or Break/Superbreak resistance.
You know it's broken when i didn't get firefly so i gave gwenifen the superbreak set only prioritizing break and speed and cleared moc 12