The Narrow Angle VR8 Engine That Nearly Nobody Used
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
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This channel is honestly an underrated blessing of a gift! Such interesting information in these videos. Engines and the layouts I had no idea even existed until having come across this channel
Followed this channel for years now & I like this kid. Especially his appreciation for things that might seem conventional or mundane but have interesting characteristics all to their own !
Same. His use of detail is excellent. He assumes you're also a piston head so he just dispenses with explanations and goes right for specification. He's the best.
If there ever was a 51° Q17 engine, this guy will find it
This channel has been great for a long, long time.
Well researched, well presented and also good footage (with attributions!)
Perhaps one day you will take it upon yourself to google with imagination of engines and their history akin to that displayed on this channel?
I love these super obscure topics like this. Also, having been subscribed since the early days of text subtitles, thumbs up on the voiceovers. Your English has gotten better than some of the teachers and professors I had growing up in the US.
That engine diagram at the very end...
BMW M70 V-12, I've worked on many of these. The belt tension adjuster on the oil pan rail, the twin distributor caps, the thermostat & water pump arrangement and the twin EML throttles. From the M70 to the M72TU, to the N73. Due to space/size, they are tough to work on.
Did those still use the twin ecus, with one for each bank? I remember seeing a bmw v12 from the 80s where one side was perfect, but the other side had clearly run lean for years with signs of pre-ignition detonation. It was unfortunately a bit to pocked to be rebuilt without sleeving, pistons, and head, which was obviously uneconomical.
@@nobodynoone2500 Yes, they have 2 DME's. They ran each bank as its own half with a communication link between computers. They both had their own throttle control units called EML. I have seen them come in with one bank completely dead. They still ran smooth that way, just underpowered. They had a thick rubber isolator type intake manifold gaskets that were prone to cracking once aged. It would definitely cause vacuum leaks & lean mixtures.
@@nobodynoone2500there was even triple ECUs on M70 =)
We did have a w8 but sadly it had too many problems kinda wish vw would try it again cause the w8 passat was really fun when it wasent broken
It does have a wonderful sound . The flatplane crank and balance shafts combined with extremely short crank just compounded too many problems. Just need one bank of the w16 . One head , crossplane , and no balance shafts.
Dude! Lancia VR8 sounds!!! Where did you even find that? Amazing.
Just a second, a 3 bank W8? 3-2-3?
Lancia stepped back because of costs? Must be the only time!
Jesus dude, your English vocabulary is officially better than most English speakers. I might have to come to you to brush up on my own crass bastardization of the language.
The vid was pretty good too. I really had no idea about these engines.
To be honest, I was able to learn a word or two thanks to AI grammar corrections and rephrasing. Thank you, man!
1:32 14º V-8 is a strange angle. You would think an angle like 22.5º would help with vibration and harmonics.
I thought the same thing. Maybe casting technology at the time limited how wide the block could be or something? Maybe it made the deck surface too wide for machining to be able to true the surfaces, or find enough clamping force without ridiculous numbers of head bolts. There could be a number of limiting factors that I can think of. Not saying any of those are even remotely true. That's just what I thought up in a minute or two on it. I'd like to know the real reasoning though
@@goosenotmaverick1156 It might very well have to do with breathing and compactness. A 22.5 degree engine would seem to have easier breathing, but it is going to be wide. Compromises had to be made for fitment.
They are usually harmonic divisors to counterbalance, 90, 60, 30... so 14 would be close to the next harmonic. If it even matters at that point, or should just be treated as an offset inline is left as a project for the reader.
The crank has separate throws for each cylinder, so the bank angle doesn't determine the interval between cylinder firings. Any bank angle other than 90 degrees is unbalanced mechanically, so balance shafts are needed anyway and whether it is 14º or 22.5º doesn't matter.
@@brianb-p6586 That's true. The best firing order for a normal car is even firing, and the crank throws would have to be staggered or have flying arms. VAG only did one single turbocharged VR6 because the crankshaft had to be very compact and as such wasn't that strong. They could afford to forge the W engine crankshafts out of far stronger materials because these cars cost quite a bit more.
Great video thanks. Lancia was such an innovative company in many ways, narrow V4 going back to 1934, first monocoque body, advanced suspension, simply beautiful engineering. Best car I’ve ever owned was a Fulvia 1600HF, I recall the owners manual saying something like, “The owner should not expect any practical day to day features, due to the car’s purely sporting purpose”. Those were the days…
Do you still have the 1600HF or did it rust like many Italian cars? From my understanding the narrow angle V4 goes back to the Lancia Lambda of 1922.
@@alexjenner1108 I bought the 1600HF in 1986 and sold it about 20y later, in a rusty condition, to an Italian guy who was going to take it back to Northern Italy to restore and race so, hopefully, it had a new life. You may well be correct about the V4’s early origins.
Had Fiat avoided their decline into mediocrity and not acquired Alfa Romeo, maybe they could have emulated VW by developing from the Pratola Serra modular engines a family of narrow-angle VR designs that actually culminated in a VR8 powering alternate Lancia models around the same period as the Volkswagen Passat 4.0 W8.
Believe it or not, you have fulfilled a dream of mine, which to listen to a running vr8
Trikappa sounds like a southern fraternity. The one with the odd dress code and membership requirements.
Hmmm
As tech improves for heat displacement and if clean fuels are able to save the ICE, it will be interesting to see if this design comes back.
Amazing video dude🔥
Interesting stuff! I didn't realize engines like this were made so early.
In the beginning when it was revving hard, it's uncanny how it sounded just like a Corrado!!!
VW was very experimentive before the diesel scandal. Except of the legendary W16 of Bugatti (owned by VW) and the common inline 4's, V6's and V8's they also had inline-5's (Audi), V10 (Audi, Lambo), W12, W8 (VW Passat) and even VR6 and VR5 (Golf, Sirocco,...) engines in their cars.
The carburetor in the valve cover reminds me of the Borgward Isabella. Maybe you could do a video on that? I'm curious why anyone would want to remove the carb to set the valves...
Another great and informative video, thanks 🙂
Great topic! Been daydreaming about this design for a long while now, just because it would be great for packaging to have all the exhaust ports on one side for a turbo setup, inside a short wheelbased chassis, rear-mid engine transversely mounted. Though, of course, in production, you would also offer a high revving, non turbo'd version, which i would personally prefer -- though, admittedly, you'll need those turbos for the big numbers
Exactly my thoughts for a while already. Been thinking about the vr8 since i read about turbocharged v engines with the turbos in the valley, also known as hot v engines. I'm a BMW guy myself and love i6 engines and moreso v8s but I've also had a keen interest on the vag vr6 and wondered why this engine concept isn't more widespread considering that all manufacturers use turbochargers in their pursuit of higher power numbers. Damn, you could even build a small displacement (talking up to 2000cc) vr8 for motorcycle or atv applications. Definitely somethin I'd like to see in the rather bland automotive landscape of relatively small displacement turbo i4s, i6s and v6s as well as the occasional v8 here and there.
Another very interesting video. Thanks Visio.
As always, interesting engines and a excellent video.
Wow love this channel
Thanks again.
Didn't know abouth this one :-)
Situation in MotoGP arises because all factories uses V4. Suzuki can't take it anymore, and Yamaha is the last standing i4 and dying to keep up with the rest. The VR8 gave me curious, what if they develop a VR4. They need a smooth power delivery to keep the grip, and top end power to keep up with the rest which checks out in my opinion. Although the weight distribution will be a bit weird because of the crankshaft degree, I believe it's their next step. What do you guys think? 😁
And with the upcoming regulation about aerodynamics and 850cc rule, it's a given that they would atleast maybe try V crankshaft. V engine is more narrow than inline, so they can give room for aerodynamics (maybe like Aprilia's diffuser, or even bigger downwash duct like Ducati's).
I don't now why but now I'm wondering what a vr boxer 8 would be like. With a low centre of gravity I wonder whether it would the best of both layouts
you are the man, Visio,
you are more than a simple man,
thank you very much
Impressive! Nice find! Great video
I have a VR5, and aways wanted to see a new VR8 or even VR7 which can work on the VR5 principle.
This channel is top 🤘
It's amazing how that VR8 practically sounds like VWs VR6 with a borla exhaust
1:48 Sweet
Honestly a crossplane big 4 cylinder kinda solves the problem and still sounds like a v8.
The VR8 lives on in the Bugatti, it’s got two of them
Many ideas never come to fruition. The Lancia Stratos is one of the best ever. Not the new ones, the original cars wth the Dino V6 are my favorite cars ever concieved.
Cilinders like VR6 style nice i like, one Turbo and perfect 😅
VR6s are dope! Shame VW did away with them…
@@rahulmandala4930 They didn't last, and were too tall. The number of jettas killed by speedbumps and manholes taking out the dreadfully low oilpans was staggering.
An interesting video.
A cam less ICE engine combined with hybrid seems pretty efficient..
Oh jheez. The vr6 and w-series engines were so bad, I forgot this was a thing. Interesting packaging, and unique, but never ideal.
I do love the deep dives on weird engine configurations!
The smallest V8 was a motorbike 500cc???? Not my idea of a V8!
Speaking of which, the W8 is one of my favorites but suffers from oil starvation in the narrow 9mm wide rod journals. Soon they will all be gone.... Such a shame because with a stronger bottom end and boost, it could have been a powerhouse with the most unique beautiful sound ever heard from an 8 cyl.
That seems bizarrely and unnecessarily narrow. Other sources report that a W8 has 12 mm wide journals.
Nobody ever seems to understand this but these are not v8 engines…..they are inlines that are more compact….they have an inline crank and an inline firing order
Ah, an alternate reality where you could get a Mk2 or Mk3 Golf with a 2.5 VR8...
Lancia
More cars should use a vr4 or any for that matter!
Complexity added doesn't yield any of the gains they're looking for with modern engines. Added complexity and wider packaging requirements, etc. Would it be awesome? Obviously, you know it! But realistically probably very unlikely. The added machining cost alone would probably make it unrealistic.
HOL UP, IF YOU HAVE THE VISUALS FROM ATG ENGINE SIMULATOR, YOU HAVE THE VIRTUAL VR8 RIGHT??????!!!!!!!!
V engines were devaloped to make the front end of cars lower to reduce wind drag. That engine is as tall as an inline. It was a joke!
lol and yet vr6 and w12 were produced
Interesting. But what's Lancha?
How much would it have cost to hire an American to read this?
Biden's not busy.
Lancia is an Italian company pronounced as [lancha] in Italian language. Naturally, being it an Italian name, I try to make to pronunciation right.
I hate how everyone refers to these as V engines when these have more in common with inline engines than Vs.
tough pickles buddy
vI
If it's not in line, it's just a shallow v. And it shares the offset bores, crank, etc with a v. So maybe take a class on how engines work if you think the correct terminology tickles your psychosomatic ocd, because it is literally and figuratively correct.
Adding to the comment below.. I went from, Not interested in motors to now getting excited like a child when i hear something unique or worked. Even a stock motor revving out will make me yell something spontaneously. All thanks to this dude > visioracer.
Amazing, thanks!
Perhaps I am wrong and I cannot remember where I read this, but VAG did indeed build and run a VR8 engine. They didn't put it into production because they simply couldn't find a use for it that their existing V8 could not fill. Thus, there was no business case for another engine type.
Great video!
VW put a Vr8 into the Passat.
It was a W8. Sorry. Not quite the same.
The "reliability" of the vr6 only endeared it to jetta fans who prized it for it's displacement, although it's low-slung oilpan often caught bumps in the road leading to catastrophic failure at speed. "Still better than a bmw-era mini cooper!" my buddy says. Better off with a shanghi-spinny-boi and the inline 4.
@@nobodynoone2500 I drove two VR6 powered cars, a Corrado SLC and a Jetta GLX and neither had issues with road damage. The only way that this would happen is if the cars were drastically lowered; They sit in the exact same position as VAG's standard 2.0 four cylinder. And the VR6 sounds WAY better than any damn Mini!
I'm very impressed at the research you did for this one! Fantastic!
The VR6 led to the V10 diesel and W16 in the Bugatti Veyron
Shout out to Ivan at "Shed racing" for the clips re the running V8 ...
I thought I recognised those overalls - Ivan Dutton from Shed Racing
Volkswagen never developed a motorsport vr6 because conrods and crankshaft were deemed to thin to withstand the forces applied.
Still love in line 4s for simplicity of maintenance
Lots of innovative design details. With lots more compression, this engine could make good torque and power on today's gasoline.
What is old becomes new again
you pronounce "Lancia" correctly that alone is enough for me to give you a 👍
great content by the way
Thanks!
🤔
✋🏼🇦🇺👍🏼
A car that should have existed: a junior Bugatti, with a 4-liter narrow VR-8 made from half the W-16, probably a front-mid-engine sport model with a rear transaxle.
Theoretically speaking, I still think the VR5 is the absolute best. You can make it anywhere from 2L-4L displacement and still rev it well with modern metallurgy, and that entire displacement range is valid for use with forced induction in a street driven car where you simultaneously A. Won't be underutilizing boost with some sub-10-psi crap like LS engines do, and B. Won't be having over 1000hp which is kinda unusable and unenjoyable except in a straight line like other LS and V8 engines do.
Plus the VR5 is almost as compact a layout as an inline 3 AND on top of that you get the beautifully thick 5-cylinder exhaust not, at least/especially if you use a 2-valve or 3-valve setup. 4 and 5 valve will be raspier and high pitched, and of all the 5-cylinders I've heard, I prefer 2-valve, except in the case of GM's Vortech 3500/3700. That one still manages to be deep and thick, somehow.
They should have just producced the VR8 and not the W8. Thye could put that in in the Oassat if they were so worried about it cannibalizing ots sales ,. Othereise could ypu image a VR8 Version of the Jetta? I wonder if it would have fit into the Corrado??
It did make it in a way with the Passat w8.
I dream of a future where carbon-neutral synthetic fuels result in automakers going wild with different engine layouts just for the engineering art of it all, to create a unique driving experience. Perhaps then we could see VR8s return.
VR8? Exorbitant price (yes, nothing changed since 1920s) for Power! Speed! 130kmh! Stop, whut? My huge 3 tonne new Crafter with - tadaaaam! - 2.0l engine can do 150 (did not try personally as we are not in Germany and our legal limit is 110). No need. Progress in materials, turbo, computer control and so on appeared to be faster and cheaper than these monstroid multycylinder design.
I wish US gas engines would have OHV and lots of little cylinders. Like 6L v12s instead of 6L v8s would have easier to control combustion and could handle turbos.
I was _almost_ able to get a 96 Corrado VR6 as my first car in 1999. Probably a good thing I didn't end up with that, the Del Sol or Miata that I had been looking at back then. Ended up with a Jetta in the end. Good first car to beat the crap out of. Though nowhere near as fun as one of those three would have been.
Интересно почему в отличии от того же vag vr6, камера сгорания тут выполнена под углом.
VR8 is useless. VR6 has perfect balance, V8 90 degree also has great balance, VR8 only has sound
I'm out of touch but recognise balance being a primary factor in engine design... Channel host should do a video on this aspect.
A VR6 can have an even firing order, but is certainly not in perfect balance. An *inline* 6 is balanced.
@@brianb-p6586 VR6 is basically a shorter inline-6
As far as balance is concerned a VR6 is certainly not an inline-6,@@tedarcher9120, because the cylinder are not all parallel.
A crossplane crank vr8 would have primary balance just like vr6 .